SMALL CORRECTION - Avatar should have used 'Sweep' against Uthar, which ups his total damage including shooting to 4.6 (92%). Uthar still works out at the best per point (243% win) despite this though!

@jamesread4616

8 ай бұрын

Hi Auspex. As per GW's rules commentary the strikes might be better, because first Uthar sets the damage to 1, then the +2 comes in after as it is a modifer, so strikes are damage 3! (ref rules commentary under 'modifiers/applying modifiers - damage gets set to X value of 1, then modifiers are added)

@user-gu6fs6vp3s

8 ай бұрын

What would be the numbers on a Gravis captain with artificer armor?

@Birri919

8 ай бұрын

@@jamesread4616 The +2 in the Avatar's weapon is part of the base characteristic, not a modifier

@jamesread4616

8 ай бұрын

@@Birri919 as it is an addition it counts as a damage modifier and also is the case for half damage. So if a 6 is rolled into half damage it goes down to 3, then back up to 2. Its pretty clear in tbeir commentary

@Zamrod

8 ай бұрын

​@@jamesread4616the designer commentary is talking about rules that modify the base damage. Things that say in words: "add 1 to the damage of all weapons" not the formula for determining the base damage itself. You determine the base damage for a weapon first by rolling and adding together any numbers listed in the damage section of the weapon and then after you are done with that, you follow the steps listed in the modifiers sections for any additional rules that apply changes to it.

I swear the last time you did one of these the Avatar was getting slapped around like an unruly child. Khaine’s been busy getting swole since then it seems!

@galling2052

8 ай бұрын

Very Happy that the Avatar is such a slegehammer now! However GW just murdered the swarmlord in 10th... just a limp, squishy overpriced noodle now... very lame

@mintw4241

8 ай бұрын

Khaine heard that character strength was going to be reduced in 10th edition and throttled the GW writer until he was allowed to keep his 9th edition profiles 😂

@captnwinkle

8 ай бұрын

​@@galling2052they had to sell the new models

@galling2052

8 ай бұрын

@@captnwinkle not that they are any better really. The levi box + the xmax box for example is the perfect recipy for a dieria nid list

@captnwinkle

8 ай бұрын

@@galling2052 lol I've yet to play them. Got two boxes and already had a 6K+ army list. My friend picked up my codex when it came out but hasn't dropped it. Been trying GSX in the meantime. Please tell me Genestealers are good!

for someone called the duelist and the most fearsome opponent in 1on1 combat among the primarchs, the lion sure gets his ass handed to him by almost anything in his size/points category

@Sean-hk9dd

8 ай бұрын

I think they are saving the combat monster for when they bring back Corax.

@BM-wf9uf

8 ай бұрын

Unfortunately the tabletop side of things rarely reflects the lore...

@DennisW91

8 ай бұрын

to be fair if this was lore accurate, Draigo would have made 100% Damage just by staring at the avatar.

@RSBurgener

8 ай бұрын

The 40k rulebook is a homework assignment that was completed the morning of.

@galling2052

8 ай бұрын

because there is no plotarmour on the tabletop

Auspex left out the “Named And Unhelmeted Ultramarines Primaris Lieutenant™️” vs Avatar of Khaine, though to be fair that’s an extremely one-sided slaughter.

@concretemix

8 ай бұрын

No duh dude, AoK stands NO chance.

@LordCrate-du8zm

8 ай бұрын

@@concretemix Precisely

@kirbking8074

8 ай бұрын

Funnily the AoK will not be "A ok."

@concretemix

8 ай бұрын

@@kirbking8074 that was a fantastic joke

I love how Angron just COMES BACK for round 2 because he's too angry to even stay dead.

@johanhalvarsson2148

8 ай бұрын

Like Darth Maul before him.

@SubduedRadical

8 ай бұрын

"Literally too angry to die"? :D

the avatar should definitely use his sweep melee profile against uthar. then it would be 3.3 wounds without the hit and wound reroll instead of 2.5 with strike profile

@auspextactics

8 ай бұрын

Good spot, I think I'd basically forgotten he had it by that point. Looks like it's 3.9W after those re-rolls, so 4.6W including the shooting. Will post a pinned correction above. Doesn't seem to change Uthar's status as 'best per point' though!

Man, Khaine’s been going to the gym since the last video like this. Apparently he took the “X character beats the Avatar in a duel” meme personally.

Lore Swarmlord: Epic. Reality Swarmlord: Epically bad. 😢

@swarmlord6121

8 ай бұрын

Seems like it 😢

Petition to use colonel straken for these 1 on 1 fights instead of leontus. We all know the lord solar is gonna lose pretty much any 1 on 1 fight He's in but straken actually has a chance and is the closest thing to a combat beast the guard have

@lt.danhooper1635

8 ай бұрын

Sly Marbo could do it. Sly Marbo can kill anything

@Seeraphyn

8 ай бұрын

@@lt.danhooper1635 Sly Marbo used to be an Avatar of Khaine, but Khaine felt insecure and dismissed him

@lt.danhooper1635

8 ай бұрын

@@Seeraphyn hahahaha. Ynnead is afraid of Sly Marbo because Sly Marbo is better at killing things than her

Damn thats already pretty impressive - Also considering it was just the Avatar himself - no Strands of fate for triple exploding ranged hits, and no Psychic Buffs from Farseers (Reroll hits, and -1 to wound) This is how I usually build around the Avatar in my Army.

Given you included the Ctan, it would have been nice if you included either the Norn Emissary or Assimilator into this. Maybe next video you could do Emmisary vs everyone else given their purpose is to single out and kill characters in the lore?

@mjhsinclair

8 ай бұрын

Yeah. The Assimilator in particular seems designed to be the Nid answer to this kind of duel.

The image of canis rex slapping the avatar around with his awkward kinda proportionally short arm is really funny

I have a feeling the fun, silly, detailed, cost-benefit analyses like this are things Auspex lives for. Good thing we all do too lol

I would have loved to see how shalaxi fared against him. I may run the numbers myself

I started eldar as my first army collection, and its nice seeing one of our units have a little spotlight on youtube

Avatar should have been done with the sweep profile against Uthar. Glad to see my Nundam Morvenn Vahl punching up so well

These are very fun videos, happy to see more of these sprinkled in throughout the year!

@Auspex Tactics Why always pick Be'lakor for daemons? There are better combat characters like Shalaxi or Bloodthirster/Skarbrand if you want to keep it more in the same points range. But those are actually dedicated melee combat monsters Be'lakor is more of a jack-of-all-trades type of character.

@user-zh8dr1qt1s

8 ай бұрын

Be’lakor is also shit this edition

@ForbiddenRazor

7 ай бұрын

A generic Bloodthirster is a huge threat to the avatar. Because it can inflict mortal wounds at the end of the fight phase which is nuts.

Such an awesome video! Thank you for taking the time to do them.

Always fun to see these brawls! I do think though that while fighting Uthar it may have made more sense for the Avatar to attack with the sweep instead of the Strike. If both attacks deal 1 damage, doubling your attacks while having basically a -1 to wound seems totally worth it. Both have enough AP to use his invuln as well. I may have missed something though with all the behind the scenes calculations!

@auspextactics

8 ай бұрын

No you're totally right there, just posted a pinned correction above. It's definitely the right move, but Uthar still wins per point by a big margin :)

Love to see the avatar putting in some work! One of the coolest units lore-wise and model-wise in all of 40k

@brandonlyon730

8 ай бұрын

Yeah to bad in the lore also Khaine constantly gets his ass kicked by whatever thing GW wanted to look strong that week.

I haven't played 40k in a good number of years, but I remember absolutely terrifying my friends with The Nightbringer. He's an absolute unit still which is nice to see.

I love these death match style videos ❤️❤️ awesome work, thanks dude!

DUDE, you are an inspiration for youtubers, so many awesome LONG videos all the time,

The maths ends up with some great results - Silent King being the absolute tankiest boy Morvenn Vahl dealing more damage than Primarchs and Greater Daemons Ghaz being truly bodied

I do appreciate the points being taken into consideration for this a lot.

These videos are always good fun. I'd love to see one where monsters match up too.

The swarmlord comparison changes from 10 wounds on the nid to 8 wounds when the swarmlord model appears on screen. A few other spots where a 'slide update' causes other information to change (like at the beginning when listing non-leader named big hitters).

Love this format! I wonder how things would change if the characters who are leaders now were given a minimum size unit to lead?

I loved this series and seeing it in 10th will be great

Great analysis! Superb video! 🤩👍🏻

"Never trust an eldar!" -Uthar

Thanks for the continuous great content. 🎉

mortarion can shoot with both his ranged weapons as monsters are not effected by the pistol rule. Not that it would have changed the outcome really.

@SmurphofChaos

8 ай бұрын

Where in the rules does I say this?

@Fluxram

8 ай бұрын

​@@SmurphofChaos I didn't think this was correct but I just checked and under the pistol rule itself it says it

@Mastercio

8 ай бұрын

​@@Fluxramyeah, vehicles and monstera can shoot in combat, this is also nice for Silent King.

@SmurphofChaos

8 ай бұрын

@@Fluxram oh alr thanks

Thanks for making these. I like numbers :) Just out of interest I would love to see what Imperial Assassins could do.

Mortarian is a monster. He gets to shoot both his pistol and his psychic attack

I love these matchup videos!

It should be mentioned that monsters and vehicles can shoot pistol weapons with all other weaponry so our dear Morty should’ve shot The Lantern as well

Glad to see a good showing from our lads in the Enclaves.

@enriquegd2977

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, for a non melee army, our boi Farshight delivers. And I always fantasize about tht heavy rail cannon array 😈

I love these... Would be interested in seeing some other style videos like units that can kill the most durable units in one go. So units that can kill things like trancendant C'Tan with enhancement, aberrants, and deathwing knights. Love the videos

Had a thought for the future of these videos, or as a fun side video. During the Battle of Iyanden, the Avatar of Khaine challenged the Hive Tyrant leading Hive Fleet Kraken (which may have been the Swarmlord but isn't confirmed) to single combat. Instead of responding to the challenge, the Tyrant famously summoned a dozen Carnifexes to dogpile the Avatar. I want to see the breakdown of the Avatar fighting a dozen Carnifexes.

Love these kinds of videos

PLEASE DO THIS MORE !

i remember an Arena of Death that White Dwarf did for WFB back in 5th(?) edition, with all the most expensive special characters from each army book, plus a Bloodthirster, since they needed a round 16 combatants. IIRC, the final fight was the Bloodthirster vs Archon, and the Bloodthirster just ruined him through raw number of attacks, and that kinda reminds me of this series - the Avatar is able to take down most opponents through raw power rather than special rules or psychic powers. And I think that AoD was the origin of the saying "dice for the dice throne of Khorne", from the victory pic they had in WD.

Loved this video

The nightbringer has great abs

Shouldn't Avatar use sweep vs. Uthar?

Everybody comparing themselves vs the Avatar. Good stuff

Can you need shalaxi helbane to the rooster this time around. With +5 inv+6fnp, - 1 to hit, rerolls on hits, wounds, damage and soild psyhic and melee attack it's would act as a good benchmark since shb is top tier anti character

I love your „Duell“ vids. Awesome as ever! Just notierst a small error. Vs Abbadon, you showed the right points with his rules (310) but later, when calculating the per-point-result you use and show the old 350 😉

I love this thank you

This makes me want a Big Bad model for Drukhari even more than ever, oof.

40k game: Who dares to challenge the avatar? 40k lore: Congrats on defeating your first avatar, you are a named space marine now.

You are swimming in content right now. I know we all love this game but i hope you are remembering to give yourself enough r&r ♥️

I'm just here for Morvenn Vahl beating the Avatar. That makes my day

@builder969channel6

8 ай бұрын

Honestly I didn't expect Morvenn and Draigo to do as well as they did

@theblackantonio

8 ай бұрын

@@builder969channel6 once I saw they was doing point for point, I knew MV would win. She's a fierce fighter for 125pts

@DennisW91

8 ай бұрын

i think a full paragon squad with morven would actually kill him. Morven isnt meant to be played on her own anymore.

@theblackantonio

8 ай бұрын

@@DennisW91 I was thinking that when I watched the video. A squad of warsuits with MV would match him in point cost. His half damage taken is still brutal though

@__tim__1069

8 ай бұрын

ye but also you have 6 Shoot Multimelter so on 3s 5-6 Hit with Rerolls and about 3 should Wound. If he has a Mirical Dice what he should have only 1 Mulit deals D so about 4-5 D (you will use your Mirical Dice for a 5 or a 4) and with Melta Keyword. Than you have the Rest of Shooting lets keep it simple the Avatar should get 1-2 more D. Than Meele you use Tankshock so 14 Dice(1 Suit has the Mace) so its should be 6 MW. So at this point the Avatar has 3-1 HP Lef and still all the Meele comes. So ye on Average and for a CP you kill the Avatar with this Troop. @@theblackantonio

The Avatar is looking pretty undercosted currently

Poor lion, he so badly needs to have his points reduced.

Anyway if you set him up well, it is an unstoppable force. Say you manage to Fortune him, anything 11 str or lower will only wound on 6s. Also SoF, for shooting the wailing doom is brutal, a 6 sof dice is between 2-4 melta to the face, and a single failed invul save on almost any enemy, means you can use a 6 sof on the damage roll for auto 8 dmg, which will kill most characters.

@Aldaris1234567

8 ай бұрын

Mathematically, you're using that 6 on the hit and not the damage.

@MalvadoManso

8 ай бұрын

@@Aldaris1234567 Oh sorry I meant the 6 for the damage on the combat phase, not the shooting ofc where it is better spent on the hit to trigger sust

@Aldaris1234567

8 ай бұрын

@@MalvadoManso Lol, that's fine. The alternative obviously is fishing for that 6 to hit 1st, and if you get lucky you've got a 6 on a damage roll. If you don't get lucky, use detachment reroll and get that fate dice on that hit roll.

And this is without fortune...

Shouldnt one of the norns be included for tyranids as it supposed to be a "primarch/general hunter" for the nids?

@kennyleung9909

8 ай бұрын

I was thinking that.

cool to see how everyone else does, BUT, how well does it do agsint itself?

i'd love to see this kind of comparison between the lowest of units poxwalker, gretchin, rippers, nurglings, and such stuff

How the mighty have fallen

Would love to see this with Shalaxi Hellbane!

@Dracus40k

8 ай бұрын

Shalaxi should body him.

@lucahappel

8 ай бұрын

@@Dracus40k ye for sure but what i meant every faction leader against shalaxi

@Dracus40k

8 ай бұрын

@@lucahappel sure, that works too. :-)

I have a question: does the ability of the SK bringer of UNITY allow you to neutralize the avatar's half damage

I would have been interested to see which of the challengers could kill the Avatar with perfect offensive luck (ie. all 6s to hit all 6s to wound Max damage rolls and the Avatar fails all saves) and who had no chance whatsoever. Also seems the points value of the challengers varies from the data-sheet to the per point comparison sometimes

@basedeltazero714

8 ай бұрын

Any character which has at least 14 attacks wins. And with perfect luck, that'll also trigger the 'on crit' abilities like Sustained Hits, right? I dunno that much about the latest edition, but... Well, the big question is 'does the halving round up, or down'. Trajann needs to use the '12 attacks' ability, unless you round up. Leontus can only do 10 wounds. Draigo wins if you round up, otherwise is stuck at 11. Or 13? Drazhar can only get 7-10 wounds. Uthar does 8 wounds. Farsight does 10-12 wounds.

Did you use both the hand of dominion & the Emperor’s sword?

I wonder how the shadowsword or other anti tank superheavies would fair at range against the avatar. Does the half damage manage to save the avatar from the ridiculously big gun?

More top tier aeldari balance by GW.

@joshramirez2049

8 ай бұрын

The avatar is made for situations like these. He doesn’t really buff anybody. Just kills stuff.

Mortarion would ignore the half damage and can shoot both of his ranged attacks.

I feel like comparing the Avatar to the big centrepiece models of different armies but only comparing it to the Yncarne and not a Wraithknight is a bit odd. Would be kinda interesting to see how it maths out. -1 isn’t nearly as defensive as halving the damage but the Heavy Wraithcannon is still massive shooting, and the Ghostglaive hits pretty hard as well

They need to make Ghaz strong as hell again.

@bumblaster9000

8 ай бұрын

yeah he's a bit pathetic at the moment, a FnP would be nice and dev wounds make sense

@boomcat1337

8 ай бұрын

i support this.. !! Ghaz needs to be a monster on the board.

Noticed a slight error at 17:47 - Abby only costs 310, not 350

Avatar cant handle 1 angry dwarf had me laughing xD

I think mortarian could shoot with both rotwind and the lantern as he’s a monster?

Where is the GSC Patriach?

angron might not be able to take him down, but the Berserker Glaive Master of Executions at 105pts will send the avatar packing

Back in the day in 3rd and 4th edition, I’d allow my Thousand Sons to be swarmed. All of my sorcerers had the Gift of Change spell. It was a two inch shooting spell that could be used even when locked in close combat and could pick your target. If you roll a d6 equal to or above the target’s toughness, w/ 6 always being successful, your opponents model was removed from the table and replaced with a chaos spawn that joins your squad! No saves at all. I took out so many big bads with that spell. Demon Princes, Old One Eye, the Nightbringer, etc.

Brilliant analysis. This is why my guard list brings 22 lascannons in a 2000 point list. Though i don't even know if that is enough to take down the Avatar. 🤣

@Sean-hk9dd

8 ай бұрын

the best way to kill the avatar wont be with your Lascannons. It will be with the 180 lasguns that you brought along with them.

@oliverp3545

8 ай бұрын

Depends on if your opponent can get off the -1 to wound, otherwise they'll have to rely on -1 to hit, which means at the end you'll be looking at about 2.75 failed saves for Khaine, a favourable average is like 9 wounds from that.

@weissraben4476

8 ай бұрын

@@Sean-hk9dd Assuming you are playing on a bowling ball, assuming the Avatar is _somehow_ within half range of all of them, _assuming_ you have Take Aim! for all of the squads, 180 lasguns is indeed enough - 360 shots, 60 autowounds and 180 hits resulting in 30 more wounds, 90 total wounds saved on a 2+, 15 wounds inflicted - just barely enough. That's a lot of assumptions - a more realistic count is managing to have maybe 40 lasguns in that situation, which is 80 shots, 13 autowounds and 40 hits resulting in 7 more wounds; 20 wounds total, saved on a 2+, 3-4 wounds. Then the Avatar charges and mulches those squads.

@TheHaydena76

8 ай бұрын

​@weissraben4476 yes but we have bayonets ;)

@weissraben4476

8 ай бұрын

​@@TheHaydena76 Ah, yes. Around 30 WS 4+/S3/AP0/D1 attacks against T12 (without LETHAL HITS to help). Truely, the Avatar of Khaine quakes in fear. :D

Needs to face up against Shalaxi Helbane. He is built for this kind of fight with full re-roll hits, wounds, and damage, plus having a 5+FNP.

Nice to see Abby getting smacked around a bit now that he's lost the 3 wounds per turn cap

Sooo Morven Val with her body guard unit ... 325pts together.. . might actually have a shot.

I feel like, in this edition, any "Leader" characters should have gotten 1 box of their led unit to join them. Especially for like, Ghaz and Abbadon who both had their toughness tanked as well as losing their damage caps.

All this tells me is that this unit is insanely undercosted for how stromg it hits.

@seaofenergy2765

8 ай бұрын

Avatar always gets undercosted by a lot. Last edition it was 100pts less than a melee knight, and could easily best it in close combat. GW are so bad at Eldar rules writing. Got some crack smoking Eldar fanboy maniac just churning out the OP.

Could always use a knight tyrant for Chaos knights, would be interesting to have a 2+ save and T13 knight in the running. Maybe for GSC the patriarch, its got more of a chance to deal damage than lord solar. Harlequinn could work out well for the Solitairs perhaps.

I just got one of these on Amazon for $70 because it was listed as "Used - Like New" and I wondered if someone had clipped some pieces then returned it. Nope, it's perfectly fine on the sprue. Anyway I have a small Eldar pile of shame to do, although it looks like the 3 melee weapons no longer have individual rules?

Why did you use the swarmlord instead of the norns.

You're forgetting one key factor. The Avatar will always roll all the 5s and 6s against me and when I run it I'll get all 1-2's, so I actually don't win. :)

We for sure have to get the Norn combat variant over the Swarmlord anymore right? It’s such a dope kit

How about a video like that in 30K? Like Kha'banda vs Daemon Fulgrim etc.?

With the next model you do, with Tyranids you should pair it with the Norn Emissary as well as the Swarmlord.

I'm kind of new to WH40K, but... what about High Marshal Helbrecht? I want to get into the Black Templars

Shouldnt Mortarion ignore the half dmg ability of the avatar? He ignores any or all charachteristic modifiers.

@byrongotcha

6 ай бұрын

Yes

*Cheers amidst a bunch of Guardians with foam fingers*

Hello, I've been loving Death Guard this edition. The Aura from Mortarion also affects his characteristics, meaning his damage couldn't be halved by Khaine. I believe damage is a characteristic that cannot be affected as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Lord of the Death Guard (Aura): While a friendly DEATH GUARD unit is within 6" of this model, that unit can ignore any or all modifiers to its characteristics and to any roll or test made for it (excluding modifiers to saving throws). Mortarion is awfully annoying in that regard. Makes many things feel bad about it.

@iangray304

8 ай бұрын

It also might make it a cheeky winner in both raw numbers and per point ;P

thanks

FYI the patriarch for the GSC is an epic hero and could be argued they are a Cults "leader"

I’m gonna just go ahead and see what the damage of the norn looks like soon

Would have liked to see how many rounds it would have taken the Avatar or Silent King to kill the other, especially since the Silent King has backup

Respect to the craft