With how many Lieutenants exist for the spess mureens, the new detachment system means you could field an army of literally nothing but Lieutenants.

@ruslanhoncharenko2179

Жыл бұрын

I doubt it will count as different unit for the restriction

@xaldrortenderofthevats8948

Жыл бұрын

@@ruslanhoncharenko2179 you expect GW to remove datasheets from their favorite children?

@ItsBofu

Жыл бұрын

​@@xaldrortenderofthevats8948 Remove? No. But combine? Absolutely. They can still sell the kits as is. Not only that, but they can start selling new, modular kits of the same unit, too. None of the models will likely be invalidated (it's not like this is the Guard, where that model you bought new six months ago suddenly stops having rules).

@primafacie5029

Жыл бұрын

Damn, I use them as proxy sargeants or in one partucular model case, as blade guard.

@YoutubeEnthusiast1000

Жыл бұрын

As it should be.

With the combi-weapons, I love how they finally fixed the big problem with combi-plasma on characters (now only dealing a mortal wound on an overheat instead of outright killing the character), but at the same time, they took combi-plasmas away.

@Remi-Toruzen

Жыл бұрын

Sisters player here and well if this stays true I’ve lost the combi flamer, melta and plasma across my whole army…. What fun. Hopefully the crossbows stay but who knows if they keep this and remove all combi weapons to begin with.

@Neothunder240

Жыл бұрын

@@Remi-Toruzen They kept storm bolters as their own weapon so I assume all the non-combi sergeant weapons for sisters will still be around.

@steinerscout7896

Жыл бұрын

No combi-plasma is instant fail. It's a mainstay weapon ffs.

@Barrlounge

Жыл бұрын

​@Remi-Toruzen we've barely seen most of the new rules so we've no idea if we've "lost" anything. So ease up on the doomglooming until the full rules are out.

@dustinasche

Жыл бұрын

This also helps certain elite infantry like Hellblasters, as if they only take a mortal wound on a 1 instead of insta-dying, then they're not quite the waste of points they sometimes are now.

I really hope Night Lords will get bonus interaction with the New moral system, because its very bad for them, even if the 9th morale was trash too, it hurts more

@RSBurgener

Жыл бұрын

I play an Undivided Legion too and I hope we don't lose out this edition. It was already a winners and losers situation with them not getting their own codexes. We'll be able to switch out our rules now but I'm just afraid it's going to delete the flavor we only just got back in Psychic Awakening.

@mathiaslaron3372

Жыл бұрын

I'm sure there will be a chaos space marine detachment that gives morale interaction to whatever chaos space marines you have.

@andrewbakescakes9684

Жыл бұрын

@@mathiaslaron3372 - And hopefully in a meaningful way. There was lots of "ignores moral penalty" stuff in 8th and 9th, making the whole NL (and similar) shtick useless.

@cassiecaradoc2070

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewbakescakes9684 Yeah, I tried to make a morale bomb list for Dark Angels, stacking like -2 Ld, -2 to Attrition tests, and roll an extra die and drop the lowest on both... then I sat back and realized I'd dumped a bunch of CP worth of relics and warlord traits and multiple characters into maybe making one unit take an extra casualty or two.

@Slimreaper13

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I’d guess night lords might get to add extra effects to battle shock and probably force rolls for it well before any units actually reach the thresholds. Imagine a trait that just says “this unit’s attacks force an immediate morale test afterwards”, you can charge an objective an opponent is indubitably in control of and snatch it right away

I think the big loss for psychic is the loss of choice for spells. Having the buffs just be locked to the unit the psyker is in kills the creativity you can have with the spells.

@Ahriman_362

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I love to craft some stuff even before a game and so far it feels very limited. If stratagems, wl traits and relics will be slimmed down, psychic armies might become very predictable

@MrMdawg221

Жыл бұрын

I'm not upset the phase went away in fact I would have loved if they just put it as part of the command phase. I'm concerned with how this will effect my Tsons with just how prevalent psychic is.

@therealmike1010

Жыл бұрын

@@MrMdawg221 As a fellow TSons player, so am I :(

@fernandozavaletabustos205

Жыл бұрын

Mmm.. Interesting!

@yourlocalxeno508

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I just got my TSons painted finally and then this hits. The customization and versatility of the faction feels basically gone now really.

I definitely like the weapon keywords. While it does mean there are now more of them, making them core rulebook and relevant to every army (as opposed to rule-per-weapon style) is actually easier overall. It adds a bit more initial learning, but it's learning that's relevant to a new player's own army as well as their opponent's army. It also 'centralizes' the list of keywords instead of spreading it out over multiple documents, though I suspect we will still see a few weapon specific rules here and there anyway crop up over time.

@AndrewMcColl

Жыл бұрын

Learning the new/updated keywords should be easier with that old favourite, the Quick Reference Sheet. I don't know if they'll include one in the book/box, but I'm sure there will be a dozen fan-made ones available online soon after it goes on sale.

Oh, the psychic phase definately needed fixing. My friend plays thousands sons. When it's his turn, I go make a cup of tea. When I come back, I usually have no models on the table...

@goodmorningandgoodluck8613

Жыл бұрын

I call it “Me time”

@hellsong23

Жыл бұрын

@@goodmorningandgoodluck8613 Hahaha :)

@Happy-zg4zd

Жыл бұрын

So does the shooting phase then, the only game i've gotten to try my thousand Sons (1k points) , i played against admech, 20 rubrics all in cover, 5 termies 2 or 3 ( i dont remember It exactly)HQs and a predator Start the Game second, every single model in cover obscuring or with +1 to saves and All is dust, I will surely be able to tank it Shooting phase ends, What do i have left? Around 3 rubrics out of 20, 1 terminator, 1 wound left on the predator and ahriman Did i have everything in cover , reducing AP2 to 0? yes. even things on obscuring? He just deepstriked and that went to shit Really interactive phase, clearly the psychic phase needed to be removed and converted to GUN. Even tho its probably the most interactive phase since you can deny and play around it

@CMTechnica

Жыл бұрын

@@Happy-zg4zd You’re calling the shooting phase redundant when 9/10 armies have shooting, and less than half that have the psychic abilities to warrant an entire phase. Lmao. At least you can interact with the game by doing your rolls with the shooting phase

@hellsong23

Жыл бұрын

@@Happy-zg4zd It's clear GW need to get rid of all the phases...

As a Tsons player primarily, the psychic phase being basically gone and replaced with a few generic powers that are tied into the unit chosen kinda hurts my soul. Idk how on earth GW is gonna balance going from 27 available psychic powers (if you include cults stuff) to maybe 3 or 4

@trichroma1820

Жыл бұрын

I think I know what they're gonna do: each unit gets 1 or 2 unique abilities, which encourages mixing and matching. That, or each unit has a unique ability they confer to the Sorcerer leading them, and Lone Operative Sorcerers get a bonus for each other sorcerer in range, or something

@johannestafelmaier616

Жыл бұрын

27 psychic powers is exactly why balancing is hard for GW, and it's also hard for an opponent to understand your army. Therefore balancing should be easier, everything must be re-balanced anyways. 10th psychic powers are far from generic, the opposite actually. Every unit may gain their own specific ones...

@bradleymartinez185

Жыл бұрын

I'm really nervous about it too. Don't know what exactly we're going to do about anti tank now either since psykic does normal wounds. Even less damage to big things and tsons are already one of the worst factions :'(

@alnilam8933

Жыл бұрын

Psychic is too early to call, we need to see more units, especially some big, powerful psykers, before we can make a fair judgement.

@Marlerc11

Жыл бұрын

People were all using like the same 5 powers though

So far I’m on the edge with psychic but everything else seems good

@linkofvev

Жыл бұрын

I'm looking forward to seeing how nasty Magnus' shooting powers are.

Playing eldar, I am mostly apprehensive about psyker rules and lethality loss, since my main approach is killing stuff. For my Sisters, I am concerned about subfaction rules and flamethrowers.

“Make your army your own…or just like everybody else who plays your faction”

Their drip-feeding of info has been masterfully executed, the community has been non-stop abuzz discussing it. Some marketing devil has earned their pay-cheque and I can't wait for 10th!

@rellikskuppin7417

Жыл бұрын

Probably paid in cans and beans 😂

@SmurphofChaos

Жыл бұрын

I mean, GW may have a few problems, but this isn't one of them!

@Saidan79

Жыл бұрын

There is literally nothing "masterful" about how they have been advertising the next Edition. The slow unveiling of content is something that is actually quite common, so no idea what you are getting so hard for.

@butcanyoudothis3320

Жыл бұрын

​@@Saidan79 D1 Hater here bois

@williamlindsay5221

Жыл бұрын

Too bad they’re going to screw up the actual release when the time comes like always

I like the weapon properties so far. Sustained Hits + Lethal hits are both things that do something on a hit roll. Devastating wounds on the wound rule. If they keep up that consistency it wont be too hard to remember.

Not sure if I like the psychic changes or not. I think the real people losing out with these changes are the people who love saying "Moving onto Psychic phase... I don't have anything hahahaha moving on" every time it gets to their psychic phase when both players already know they don't have psychers.

@fateweaver9844

Жыл бұрын

I play Daemons. I have arguably more to lose than TSons and yet I'm okay with the changes to psychic. Why? Because I'm not a playtester and so I'm not going to lose my shit until the day I can see with my own 2 eyes what changes were made to my psykers. If psychic is desd for Daemons I still have dozens of other ways to kill you 😉

My guess is that to balance army building they will just make troops objectively much more cost effective than elites in terms of general purpose units.

@philipjaques1653

Жыл бұрын

Just by having troops with more OC will mean while an "All tank" army may win each firefight, the balanced or troop heavy army will likely win on points

@chronosmalkeri4157

Жыл бұрын

@@philipjaques1653 as guard tank player, if we get 5 oc count on Russ, like I do with armoured superiority, then I'll get an additional rule layer to my tanks for free :)

@jasongarfitt1147

Жыл бұрын

I'm worried about not being able to use all my troops. 6 is not enough!

Biggest thing I'm sad about is the generic army rules selection section instead of giving unique faction rules. I get that made balancing not great, but it did add flavor and some unique rules to build around, making maybe the less meta armies catch people off guard when you come up with a cool or different build for them.

@cassiecaradoc2070

Жыл бұрын

Same. I was really hoping they'd go in the opposite direction and give other subfactions for other main factions (like Bork'an and Viorla for Tau, or Ebon Rose for Sisters, etc) more rules. It really seemed like it would work for their business model, given that they liked to sell new books and new models, and that seemed like a way to do both. I'm actually pretty surprised they swung the pendulum so far in the other direction, away from subfactions.

@IndecisiveDragon

Жыл бұрын

​@@cassiecaradoc2070 I feel like crunchier sub-factions will find a way to slip back in at some point, given it's such a good way to move more paper and plastic for them. Though in the near term I guess they can manage to do that with codex rewrites and model updates.

@nanakakitano9724

Жыл бұрын

I am glad they made army rules more generic and are moving away from subfactions. Partly due to balance as you mention, but more specifically because there always ended up being one or two sub-factions that were just "best" and it did not feel good to either play a different sub-faction than what your army was painted, or play the sub-faction of your army and put up with terrible rules. Do not get me wrong, I hope they will include many interesting detatchment types, and I am sure there may end up being "best" or "worst" ones of those, but they are not tied to how you choose to paint your army at least.

@mtrunkello

Жыл бұрын

Oh cmon... when subfactions got flavor in 8th edition everybody went for the faction that had army wide -1 to hit. It was broken, unfun. Suddenly every successor found out they were successor od the -1 faction.

@MrNasher113

Жыл бұрын

I think at the start of 10th it’ll be pretty bland when it come to subfactions but I’m sure as codexes start dropping then flavour will be added back

As someone who loves gimmick lists, I love the new army building rules. Let me run all vehicles or only battlesuits. Though I do hope that these cheese builds aren't too strong because it's a lot less funny if a gimmick list becomes top tier.

@deanunsworth308

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing having an army of GK baby carriers 😂

The only gripe I have with 10th's rules so far is the removal of subfactions. Other than that; I'm quite looking forward to it!

@branm5459

Жыл бұрын

Aren't they gonna do something similar to kill team and do variations ?

@Gumby777

Жыл бұрын

The Subfactions are easily startled, but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers

@Neothunder240

Жыл бұрын

@@branm5459 Detachments seem to be more or less the same thing as 3rd edition's variant armylists (those you could find in campaign books, WD articles or some supplements) where you have some unit restrictions but get new units and special rules to compensate with each variant list catering to a different playstyle. It's a no brainer to align those playstyles to the playstyles of different in-lore subfactions.

@johannestafelmaier616

Жыл бұрын

"Subfactions" usually just means one or two important bonuses that can be combined with almost any other buff. With this insane amount of independent options in 9th inevitably leading to some broken combos, subfactions are inherently unbalanced. Enter 10th, where subfactions "become" detachments, dealing with both of these problems: - It's not just one or two buffs but a whole page (meaning buffs / nerfs can be made in smaller increments) - Detachment buffs cannot be combined, drastically reducing the number of possible combinations -> far fewer broken combos The old "freely" combineable system might have been fun when building a list but lead to some huge inbalances between factions but more importantly far more within factions. A unit was basically worthless if it didn't contribute to a "broken" combo.... This kind of meant there were very few lists within a faction that were competitive. In 10th, detachments should be quite easy to balance and if there were, let's say, 3 detachments per army then there will probably be 3 times more competitive lists per faction, and in total. Oh and technically playing models painted according to a particular subfaction forced you to use their rules as well - good or bad.

I know it sucks that your favorite chapter miggt have had their unique rules removed. But come on guys, 10 sets of rules for space marines and xenos basically get 1?

@roccoraspanti5742

Жыл бұрын

I agree so much with this. I love space marines but there's just too many of them all with their rules.

@XealotCoils

Жыл бұрын

I mean might as well call them Space Marine, The Faction. How do you decide which subfactions get axed? Does everyone who doesn't have a weird thing about them like BA, have to become as faceless as the UM? I play as IF, and I just want my army to have one or two fluffy rules that actually make them unique than just Ultramarines who accidentally fell into a vat of Yriel Yellow.

@RaptorAceX

Жыл бұрын

@@XealotCoils I'm with you there. I play Crimson Fists.

I think you hit the nail on the head with head cannon for chapter themes and thats why i like its. If there is say a stealthy detachment and you want to be ravenguard then you can still ply then that way. Although if you don’t want to be stealthy then you can still be raven gird but not hampered by the rules. Win win

My opinion on subfactions would depend on how far they go with it. If they give guard level customization to marines but all codex chapters are essentially one army (with the exclusion of SW, DA and BA as they have waaaaay too many units unique to them) I would actually quite like that but if they make marines one faction with everyone being able to take everything I will be quite disappointed. Similarly if they combined all eldar into one, but there are factions which really dont need subfactions. My tsons are already a faction thats part of a faction (chaos marines) in a faction (chaos), it really doesnt need 9 additional subfactions, maybe like loyal to ahriman, magnus and abby maximum but even thats stretching it

@fgkuv5232

Жыл бұрын

As BA and Tsons player I agree completely. The ideal case for BA would be our own rules and the flesh tearers detachment like world eaters have the disciples of the red angel

@RSBurgener

Жыл бұрын

The problem with this system seems like the Codex Chapters and Undivided Legions will become more generic than they already are. Everyone will be either Ultramarines or Black Legion until their codex comes out. The generic subfactions will now gain more than one way to fight, which is cool. But I think their individual character will end up suffering this edition.

@dtheraider4336

Жыл бұрын

The way I see it is that sub factions will now be specific army formations so they give you benefits. Some factions can have a dynamic range of formations. However I am scratching my head on how many fighting styles can be applied to custodes or harlequins.

@mathiaslaron3372

Жыл бұрын

@@RSBurgener 100%, Night lords can buff vehicles as well as iron warriors. Black Legion could handle daemons as well as word bearers. Alpha legion would be able to pull off Black Legion crap. It would make most big subfactions feel meaningless I think and every army will probably just have one big OP one.

@FlynnMTaggart

Жыл бұрын

"We are nothing without the struggle with it. He would make us Ultramarines in red armour."

If you think about it the new chapter(paint doesn't matter rule) could be used to play specfic company's in the space marine chapter. Use Termies and vets with that 1st company Detachment, phobos and scout heavy Detachment for the Scout company etc. Wondering if I'm gonna get a dakka Detachment for me boyz

For me overall looks good, the big concern is the amount of rerolls and armour, some armies have poor anti-tank unless they resolve this guard army lists and knights could be a real problem

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I don't know how Tzeench and Slaanesh Daemons, for example, are meant to touch Knights and big tanks in 10th. No proper cannons, and the psychic 'guns' won't have the strength. Harlequins have this too, relying on 2 fusion pistols in a squad at 6" is real trouble.

@fateweaver9844

Жыл бұрын

​@@anophelesnow3957 Because you have seen the datasheets for Daemons? For all you know Bolt of Change is S20 with a -5AP and causes D6 mortal wounds on a 3+ to hit in addition to it's 6 damage. 🙄🙄 People need to stop comparing current unit power to 10th edition.

When they said "simplified but not simple" we all knew they'd fuck up in some regards. Stuff like combi weapons, psykers being stuck with set spells per model (though I like this for some armies, TS and GK can basically get f*cked from how I understand new psychic, they're a shooting army now, great) etc. There's a LOT they did great so far but there's one major gripe for me that I just can't tell how much it'll be fixed yet: Subfactions. I like subfactions and in general they weren't the source of complexity since the subfaction archetypes (fast one, fighty one, shooty one, tanky one) always seemed similar. This can still be completely saved or even improved though cause while the new list building seems to kill stuff like mixed Imperium armies for good, the invidiual detachment sheets could be extremely fluffy for their respective subfaction anyway. So in conclusion: They did good, there's stuff where I'm sad it's gone and there's a lot yet to be seen that depends entirely on how GW executes this editions

I want my subfactions. Other than that, most look promising.

it only shows that most players are not SM players, and they rate every rule that might be in favour of SM as negative, and every rule that might help their army as a good one...

Twin linked weapons and sub factions are my biggest gripes. I was mainly a 5th edition player way back, i despised Twin linked limited output of weapons where the model clealy had two guns -_-

Something i realized about the psychic phase that made me like the change a lot more is that there are really only 4 or 5 armies out of 30 something armies that take more than 1 psyker in their lists and a pretty substantial number of armies doesnt even have the option to take psykers at all.

@Narokh

Жыл бұрын

And the psychic heavy armies will most likely get at least some customization options for their armies, possibly through enhancements or such.

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

It's fine with that Weirdboy example, those are the powers you would want anyway and Orks only get that one psycher. Consider my army, Craftworlds on the other hand. We use a couple of Farseers and 4-5 Warlocks in many lists. Them all attached to units and having the same spells could be crippling.

@fox5s

Жыл бұрын

@@anophelesnow3957 Totally agree with you here. I run El-dad, two Farseers, two separate Warlocks, and a Seer Council Warlock squad all with a huge variety of powers. I am very nervous for these changes. I was onboard with everything I was hearing about 10th until I heard they might be gutting my favorite thing about my army.

I just hope there is something like chapter/legion rules for factions. I wouldn't expect Night Lords to play just like Iron Warriors, Salamanders and Imperial Fists, etc. These rules help provide some fluff and flavor to the factions even if it might be tricky to balance.

@fateweaver9844

Жыл бұрын

Maybe not launch day but I can see certain Chapters/Legions having detachments that separate them from one another. No way in Hell that BA m, SW, and DA going to become extinct like the dodo bird

@danielbest2280

Жыл бұрын

Only the chapters and legions that get their own codexes will get rules in 10th sadly. All the codex compliant chapters except ultramarines and legions like iron warriors and alpha legion and such probably won't get anything, they will just be generic space marines/chaos marines

I get why people are upset from a theming and flavour point of view with psychic, but if it reduces how many things I have to remember when playing against Thousands Sons, I'll be happy. There was honestly a point in my opponent's psychic phase where he'd be naming abilities and rolling dice and I'd switch off. That said, individual psychic abilities on different characters won't necessarily fix that problem for me. Time will tell. The change away from mortal wounds is something I don't like however. I liked that psychic powers were versatile. Although they generally did less damage than special or heavy weapons, you knew whatever you did (assuming it wasn't denied) would stick and do some damage. Against tanks and monsters you punch through armour saves, against infrantry you can spill wounds over and really harm a squad. The psychic weapon profiles seem now to simultaneously have more damage potential (multiple attacks) but can be just stopped through regular armour saves and I'm not sure I'm happy about that. I like reducing the number of phases by having psychic abilities just happen when they're relevant - but the way the abilities themselves have changed, less so.

I will be astounded if there are not detachment options that are chapter specific for example that provide flavour and some differences between armies in the same faction. A unique detachment power or two and stratagems will make a decent impact on how the army plays without the over abundance of unique data sheets.

Blandness seems to be the name of this edition.

@oz2362

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely, nothing at all has raised my eyebrows or interested me. I might just stick to 9th ed even if its not perfect.

I kind of get why they'd want to reduce the focus on chapter/subactions etc, but at the same time it really kills immersion and flavor which is not a good thing. I'd say it's a good start for when all armies are released initially though, to help get a good feedback of how the armies work and are blaanced, before doing anything with subfactions etc. I would expect sub-factions to get fleshed out down the line though, but one book for all SM'chapter sub-factions (like CSM in 9th) would be fine for example.

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

You can imagine the Codex will handle individual chapters, and if it is just a few rules then more might be covered. A Crimson Fist rule would be welcome, or a Minotaurs one. SM will be the first codex anyway.

@fateweaver9844

Жыл бұрын

Even at launch it's possible that the "Big 4" will have their own detachment with detachment specific rules and units. If each Faction has only 2 pages of rules it's easy for GW to create a BA detachment, incorporate a few of the specific rules from the current codex, add a few WLTs and Relics and then of course rewrite the BA specific units for 10th. So just like currently you would need the general SM datasheets (free), the 2 pages for your BA detachment (free) and the datasheets for BA specific units (free).

@runeh3022

Жыл бұрын

@@fateweaver9844 I hope they go into some detail and diverify the SM'chapters, but since more is pushed into the core rules now, I think the loyalist SM chapters could easily be covered in 1-2 books at the most and the CSM's in 1-2 books (undivided chapters in one and the dedicated god ones in one for example). It would help make it far quicker to get 10th ed up and running, as it would massivly shorten the time needed to get all army books ready for print.

@fateweaver9844

Жыл бұрын

@@runeh3022 I don't think individual codexes are a thing anymore. I want to be wrong because it sounds like the lore is going to be changing massively so it'd be cool to have your typical 30+ pages of lore per faction but unfortunately I think you are right. If the big 4 are rolled into one book I could see approximately 20 pages of rules and datasheets still leaving plenty of space for fluff. I have always been against consolidating Chapters/Legions into one book because it forces you to buy other Chapters/Legions rules you will never use but do to so few rules in 10th I can see it making sense to some.

@runeh3022

Жыл бұрын

@@fateweaver9844 One interesting option i hope to see is that unit special rules pontentially chaning for some of the SM units for some of the more divergent chapters. Same stats etc, but that they can easily diversify them with a name change (for fluff reasons only) and a change of unit special rule. Could be a handy method of handling the likes of Space Wolves for example without making a whole book for them and their units.

The one that worries me is the subtractions rules, no one wants the Ultramarines and Blood Angels to feel the same to play. But i suppose we still don't know exactly how its going to work.

@user-jt6rm6vl4l

Жыл бұрын

If they just freaking buffed Imperial Fists even once I feel like the "my dudes are bad because my paint" conversation wouldn't have happened so often and we'd still get to have our cool subfactions. It's like they balanced 40K 95% perfectly for the first time ever then threw their hands up at the last 5%.

@justindowning3845

Жыл бұрын

Look at how harlequins played this edition. Before, we had several subfactions locked to paint scheme, now we're "light, twilight, and dark." I assume it is going to be similar for everyone in 10th.

Regarding twin linked weapons, why not just give more attacks on the datasheet, what is the need for special rule? I wonder if we might be seeing the combat patrol version of the data sheet.

The revision of 'twin-linked' is the most baffling and annoying to me. Fails to reduce rerolls, fails to take advantage of the unique weapon entries on each data sheet. A Heavy Bolter: A3 BS3+ S5 AP-1 D2 Possible twin-linked Heavy Bolter profiles: One to represent the greater volume of bullets: A5 One to represent the higher likelihood of hitting, given the increased fire volume: BS2+ One to represent the greater damage potential of the increased firepower: S6 or D3 or AP-2 So many better ways to represent it than having another USR which increases rerolls.

Psychic changes seem kinda scary. I am fairly new to the hobby, I only started collecting T Sons a couple months ago and just had my first games. I didn't pick T Sons so I can play with tanks and dreadnoughts :

@nightmarejlm91

Жыл бұрын

well time to start

@TheM8

Жыл бұрын

I mean i think every squad (and character) of Tsons are gonna get and extra weapon in addition to their bolter so they could get very powerful.

@ShahbazBokhari

Жыл бұрын

Have hope, it would be beyond the pale of asinine to rob the entire point of unique factions like TS. If anything I have a feeling it’ll be rather interesting and fun.

@jordanstuckenschneider7101

Жыл бұрын

@Baz B is this your first experience with GW? Because taking away a faction's identity is something GW does on a regular basis. See tyranids getting their adaptive rules significantly altered to be very unadaptive for almost a year and just a couple weeks ago added back, or dark Angels entirely losing their most important rule from inner circle with no compensation. It would not surprise me in the slightest that tsons are still the worst faction in the game because GW made the new psychic spells too weak and tsons will have no good anti tank and will end up unable to deal with the upcoming vehicle meta in any way whatsoever.

@Noalak

Жыл бұрын

@@jordanstuckenschneider7101 "tsons will have no good anti tank and will end up unable to deal with the upcoming vehicle meta in any way whatsoever" Can't agree more. 9th anti tank is already pretty mediocre, relying a lot on MW. In 10th so far looks like "if you can't beat it, play it"

I really like the terrain 3+ save or better doesn’t get cover for AP0 weapons. Non-Freebooter Ork shooting just felt pointless when you have Space Marines sitting in cover.

I'm hoping the subfaction changes don't basically hamstring the 2k of disciples I've just painted... but then again =chaos so no love expected

Not a fan of the removal of subtractions and the psychic phase, but I understand why they did it. I just hope they didn’t oversimplify it

@otaviolobo7989

Жыл бұрын

Oh they definitely oversimplified it. It was going so well with everything until the points you described coming up.

@trickish-spark3961

Жыл бұрын

@@otaviolobo7989 that might be a problem then

@adamcaldwell5646

Жыл бұрын

​@@otaviolobo7989 I like it. It means if you have your marines painted as Iron Hands you're not limited to vehicle lists. You can experiment a bit.

@CMTechnica

Жыл бұрын

I love the removal of the psychic phase. It brings Psyker armies in line with other factions and cuts down on game length. They’re just a statline now. I want more information on how detachments are going to work. At least in the case of space marines it’s implied that’s where the “subfactions” exist. If that’s the case, I reckon imperial guard will have a siege, armored, tank, and basic detachment to replace what currently exists.

@Deadwarrior000

Жыл бұрын

Removing the psychic phase is going to speed most games up thank god. I hated going against my friends AtS army and not get to play or interact for 5-10 minutes if not more.

I’m just scared to see how Grey Knights look in tenth, with psychic stuff getting turned into essentially mediocre stratagems and plasma weapons

@danielvillicana3290

Жыл бұрын

Does it help that psychic abilities can’t be denied by the opposing player/having to roll for it? Seems like it could be balanced by having multiple casters in an army no? Sorry I’m a newbie.

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

@@danielvillicana3290 Not really, because the really good psychic armies (GK, Tzeench, Eldar) are good enough that enemies don't often deny. And having multiple casters is not great if they have to have the same powers attached to units.

@MrMdawg221

Жыл бұрын

​@@anophelesnow3957 This is the concern. Powers being free essentially doesn't mean much if all aspiring scorcers can only use one power.

@therealmike1010

Жыл бұрын

@@MrMdawg221 This. If this is the case, I will not play a single game of 10th. I enjoy 9th and am not about to give up literally everything.

The twin linked rule is sort of going back to how they worked pre-8th edition. (Though that was reroll hits iirc).

Curious to see how my Raven guard pan out and will the addition of shrike influence how they play in any way…

@ShahbazBokhari

Жыл бұрын

Same. I’ve set aside minis from the backlog particularly for the notion of a RG army. Ended up with spare infiltrators and eliminators from a gift. They’re such a neglected bunch.

@RBTGames

Жыл бұрын

Raven guard doesn't exist in game anymore. They're just space Marines painted black. Shrike is basically a gun for hire that works with any space Marines.

i think the way twin linked guns work in 9th edition seems more fun. More guns means more shots equals more dice, i feel like it appeases my inner "Timmy"

@demon1103

Жыл бұрын

Yeah... I just wanna throw 50+ dice on the table and bathe my enemies in fire with my Flamestorms...is that so much to ask **sad Salamander noises**

@michaeldlubac9096

Жыл бұрын

@@demon1103 If you think about it, Land Raiders just lost 1/2 their fire power, 2 twin linked las cannons, and a twin linked heavy bolter now just 2 las cannons and a heavy bolter. One of the Taurox Prime weapon load outs had twin linked gatling cannons vehicles may be tougher but in some cases losing 1/2 their firepower is going to hurt.

@demon1103

Жыл бұрын

@@michaeldlubac9096 The heavy bolter might be fine(will need to see) since the current datasheet lists it a only 1 weapon, but I get the feeling you're right about the lascannons.....at least they get to unleash Assault Chargers now.

The removal of being able to choose psychic spells + seemingly that the psychic abilities you do get only affecting their surrounding unit, makes me feel like psychic play is just absolutely going to be gutted. Even if the buffs end up being overwhelmingly good, it's not going to feel fun or feel like you're doing anything psychic at all. Just command aura bots for 1 singular unit.

I generally really enjoy the changes shown, lots of wait and see how things unfold, particularly with the weapon wording. My one concern would be certain typings being clear stand outs and making other options redundant, as with Rending back in 4th edition. Still, looks good so far!

@8-7-styx94

Жыл бұрын

To be fair though if they hadn't added rending to some of the dumbest weapon choices out there it wouldn't have been quite so powerful. But instead they threw it on everything like a Frank's Red Hot commercial. x)

My only real concern is just how homogenized the chapter tactics are going to be. I play Black Templars, and them having their own set of rules/litanies/oaths really makes them feel better and more standout from say, playing Ultramarines. If they end up boiling it down to "You get your unique characters and lose everything else" I'm going to have a lot more negative stuff to say. Only time will tell, though.

@OnlinetoArgue

Жыл бұрын

I don't know if it will be the same for the Chapters with their own Codexes. Eg Black Templars and Dark Angels etc. But ones like Imperial Fists etc will no doubt be the same.

@UncleBashface1

Жыл бұрын

@@OnlinetoArgue yea thats what has me wondering. Genuinely hoping the more divergent chapters keep some of their flavor because, hell, thats why a lot of people started playing them in the first place lol.

@roccoraspanti5742

Жыл бұрын

I'm on the other side of the fence, to me Space Marines should bear differences only in colour and fundamentally be all the same rules wise. But I'm pretty sure that eventually all chapters will get their codexes and stuff just like they are now. Maybe not immediately but I wouldn't worry about that.

@shaneschossow9705

Жыл бұрын

New players coming in with no idea and having everything nerfed for them shits me

@colonelturmeric558

Жыл бұрын

Yeah fluff is important, if people want a game with relatively simple rules and no lore just play checkers or chess.

I fully expect armies like Tau and AdMech to get weapons rules that are unique to them, or are used sparingly for the shooty armies.

@surpriseandterror9698

Жыл бұрын

At least get some cool dakka to compensate for a lack of psyker shenanigans. As an AdMech player, I won't be missing the 10 minutes every game devoted to my opponent doing a bunch of cool bullshit I can't in any way interfere with.

@GoingRampant92

Жыл бұрын

@@surpriseandterror9698 A lot of our weapons spit random mortals which was supposed to be our "smite" and canticles + doctrinas were our "psychic phase". Although AdMech could easily have a "not psychic" phase because ya know data hoarding, and the noosphere, and all the networky stuff. Datasmiths could change kastellans in that phase and the enemy could try to overwatch(deny) etc. I actually don't like the loss of the psychic phase. Although I understand it.

I haven’t found anyone that’s excited about sub factions vanishing. It’s a stupid change, maybe the answer should’ve been to just limit he options of each sub faction while keeping the main faction strong. All marines should be able to blast people with their bolt guns, but blood angels are the most savage in melee or Fists can hold a point with fewer troops etc…. Idk why they are doing such a dumb change

Great video, and obviously I'm biased but as a space elf player that has seen certain synergies disappear like Poof E.g. Casting Guide on a unit of Hawks, I for one am not very happy to the changes GW made to psychic powers if I understand these correctly that is, especially the bit about only benefiting the unit said caster is attached to. I can stick a farseer/warlock on a jetbike for buffing Shining Spears, Windriders, or whatnot however unless we get the option to kit out a farseer/warlock with IDK wings/spider jump packs, this causes quite some rethinking in some lists whilst signaling out this unit for my opponent as "Priority target" since it can do something more then a similar one in that slot. (Which makes perfect sense, since that's exactly what I'd do if I see a two units of Terminators but one has a Librarian attached) Am curious to see what'll happen if I attach a Farseer to a massive blob of guardians though.

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

I agree, I don't know what to do with my Farseer on foot. Attach him to my Dire Avengers? Will all my Warlocks (ad we have Craftworlds, you know we have multiple Warlocks) have to tag along with Guardians? I'm thinking of getting a Spiritseer to join the Wraithblades if we have to cast on attached units.

I feel like the force org chart needs to be seen with those new subfactions to work, but i cant help but think armies with more redundant units are going to benifit from it more than other armies.Take heavies like dreadnoughts. there are so many different kind of them, you could fill a whole army with them. But you look at Eldar, you have wraithlords and seers, 6 max for both. There is probably going to be a spirithost one that makes wraithblades/guard battleline which will help, however the new force org i still think will be limited with reigning in armies with a lot of redundant choices like space marines.

There's good and bad but it's the loss of subfactions that is going to irk me. Hopefully it will fixed when armies get codexes.

For some reason i have 6 painted plague marine bell character guys. Hope I can squad them all up lol

I don't understand why they didn't go back to reroll to hit on twin linked rather than wound if they really wanted to change the way it currently works, doesn't make much sense.

@bumbyonline

Жыл бұрын

idk, while i think some weapons labelled twin-linked don’t actually seem to really be twin-linked as they should be (e.g. i feel boltstorm gauntlets aren’t actually linked like that and could fire at different targets), weapons that are linked will harmonise at the same target - it makes less sense they’d improve odds of hitting and they can only hit the same target but that target will likely be hit twice hence rerolls

@XealotCoils

Жыл бұрын

Well I guess if you're working with the idea of less reroll sources, such as captain's and lieutenants. You all of a sudden have a whole set of weapons, flamers and others that auto hit, who cannot have their damage buffed in any meaningful way since you can't reroll the hit roll for a weapon that auto hits. I've taken this version of the twin linked rule as, you shoot/throw your punch, see that it doesn't work, so you go again. So the aggressor punches the guy, see that he botched it, and then punches again.

@4:20 what are the models in the right hand corner? Do assault intersessors come with skill helmets?

I feel like the cover exception should've been something slightly more general like "cover cannot improve a save beyond 3+ after accounting for AP".

Being able to have infinite named characters might be interesting for necrons who have a ton of them.

@1xoACEox1

Жыл бұрын

The games till tied to points though remember. They'll be expensive and an army of 6 guys isn't going to be very effective.

@gregorde

Жыл бұрын

@@1xoACEox1 we do have Custodes...

@Sorain1

Жыл бұрын

I am just picturing a "Necron Adventuring Party" lead by a bickering Trayzin and Orokin as a valid list.

@Kellhound32

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but having an entire army of inept and useless characters isn't really going to help...

As someone returning to the hobby having last played in the 4th/5th ed era, it's funny to think that twin linked weapons being re-rolls is weird: because when I read that in the rules I thought, ah yes, that's what twin linked does, I remember. In other words: for those with long enough memories, this is a reversion, not a revision.

Surprised the morale changes are so popular seeing as it being in the command phase means going first is a significant advantage. I won’t say I’ll miss losing troops for no good reason though.

Really don't know how to feel about losing double attacks on Aggressors. I was hoping to use 1 or 2 squads in Crimson Fists or some custom chapters to really dish out lots of damage. Guess I'll have to re-work my lists

@luisgavila8412

Жыл бұрын

Maybe the old 8th ed rules for Agressors are back in some form and you can double your attacks with an Agressor-specific ability.

@odinwhoknowstoomuch8589

Жыл бұрын

@@luisgavila8412 I can only hope so. In any case, it's not exactly a huge loss, there are thankfully plenty of other options

i think the psychic changes are a huge flavour loss but also i think the damaging ones are better designed instead of them just being mortal wounds

@linkofvev

Жыл бұрын

The damaging ones definitely gained flavour though. The current set of psychic damaging powers are boring as fuck.

@Tzar-TZ

Жыл бұрын

@@linkofvev yea thats what i mean, the way the damage is dealt has more flavour but they way they are cast has lost it

I really love many of the ideas but psychic is kinda meh. To be honest it's sorta killing some of the flavor a bit. CastvsDeny combat was fun!

i'm now curious as to know if and how they are implementing faction buildings to possibly make em more viable and potentially a worth putting in an army.

For the Orks ? Weird boy with a mob of 30 boyz assassinating officers under 8 hp will be the biggest "gotcha" moment for a lot of people Guard ? Seems like Mech Infantry and tank Spear Head only options Knights ? Royally Screwed unless Ion Shield gets changed But those are my armies , I'm sure a lot of new and strange is coming for the others also

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

That Weirdboy/Boyz blob will be a laugh in action. If an HQ isn't screened properly, the Orks can turn 1 teleport to the fool and 'Eadbanger him stone dead. Worth the points.

Thankyou for all the research and effort you put into these videos, Keeps returning players like me (6th ed was my last game) In the loop and excited about getting involved again!

While I fine with consolidation as an aim and the idea off less reroll appeals, I can see lots of issues with what we have seen of the new rules. I can see balance being a real problem. They have got twin linked weapons wrong. It will make balance harder, adds a strange rule (consolidation out the window for no good reason) and strangely brings another unnecessary reroll. When they start rolling out the new codexes, or whatever they choose to call them, performance creep could be a real problem. Oh well.

I'm really worried that my templars that I just finished painting up and playing with are now going to just be black ultramarines

What's the point of increasing toughness if they just start giving everyone rerolls? A few weapons get lowered ap, but many don't. Terminators getting a 4+ invun seems like a band aid fix for the crazy high damage and ap they will face. I know it's early but if the edition starts out like this with indexes, how will it look when codex creep sets in 1-2 years from now?

Removal of sub faction rules is good. They're probably going to give unique detachments to divergent space marine chapters. I don't want to have to memorize the rules for 5 or 10 different sub-factions per army. I'd much rather have those subfactions get simple, easy to understand detachments that I can read before the game starts so I can get an idea of what my enemy is capable of doing. You guys say you want flavour for your subfaction, but no one wants to read your codex along with a bunch of other subfaction codexes to figure out you can do some weird thing that normal Space Marines can't. You can get that flavour by just getting a unique detachment that can only be taken by your subfaction.

@fateweaver9844

Жыл бұрын

The most sensible response so far. I could see super niche subfactions going away but for sure with SMs no way in hell are GW just going to eliminate SW, BA, and DA

@danielbest2280

Жыл бұрын

But what about chapters like the imperial fists, iron hands, salamanders, raven guard and white scars? They aren't the most popular chapters but they aren't exactly niche either and they are all founding legions ffs, surely they should get at least a detachment for each of them aswell

With the new building rules I am a bit confused since I do not know the general terms, does that mean that other than a warlord and a possible character I can have up to 6 other units and there can't be more than 3 units with the same profile? (like I can have max 3 squads of hormagaunts?)

I've not been so excited for a new edition of 40k in a very long time. I know people have things they don't like, but honestly, I'm 100% on board so far. My only concern is points costs. I was a combat patrol player and the changes to that mode means 1k might be my go to but I'm not in a position for buying too much so hopefully I'm not priced out of the edition.

@SpooKimi

Жыл бұрын

Let's hope someone makes a 500 point gamemode with maybe other rules etc to balance 500p Personally 500 points looks really fun to me, just need some small changes to play a bit nicer and less campy objectives

i could moan about a few of the changes (like psychic!) and i already have on other comment sections. but theres one little thing that really irks me and i dont feel like anyone points it out. if GW's entire approach to 10th was "simplified"....why is everything still so bloody wordy? it can be a huge turn-off to potential new players, as well as just being annoying when you're trying to skim your army rules to find that one mechanic you were thinking of. its why i rewrite all of my army lists and only refer back to the official rules when theres a question about it. this is a small example, but look at their explanation for "Sustained Hits": Weapons with [Sustained Hits X] in their profile are known as Sustained Hit weapons. Each time an attack is made with such a weapon, if a Critical Hit is rolled, that attack scores a number of additional hits on the target as denoted by 'x'. the majority of that is bloated nothing. its a waste of ink or screenspace. i mean, its basically saying "this sustained hits weapon is a weapon with sustained hits"....why?!? all it needs to say is: [Sustained Hits X] - If a Critical Hit is rolled with this weapon, that attack scores X additional hits. is that so hard? like, i could _almost_ justify wordier rules if they were at least more clear. but you look up _any_ army rules online and you will find people arguing over, or confused by the wording of certain mechanics.

@Sorain1

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. That way of explaining it is fine in article text, but idiotic for rules book/sheet text. If it can be cut down to fewer words and still be accurate? CUT THEM.

No denials sucks. The physic phase was fun. Little mini game of dice

I really don't like twin linked and there's a reason it was dropped years ago. It doesn't even make as much sense as what we have

Absolutely awesome summary. Kudos.

Psychic phase is my big one I dislike. I enjoyed being flexible with spells for the Thousand Sons. Now I’m gonna get wrecked?

Im actually pretty fucking upset about the removal of subfactions. It feels like gw have just only considered space marines with that decision, as imperial guard and chaos have felt awesome to play in the last two editions because of those rules.

@glennmarson1433

Жыл бұрын

Too true .. " made simple for simpletons"😅

@garryhewitt1053

Жыл бұрын

We have no idea what will happen as detachments get released. I will bet that you will see detachments that give you decent faction specific options.

@joshpearson1870

Жыл бұрын

@@garryhewitt1053 We'll see when the 10th ed Guard codex drops in 2027

does rapid ingress work on deep strike units?

twin linked used to work this way back in the day, but you could reroll misses.

Ouch... that twin linked rule hurts my storm raven... despite being made of glass at least it was able to hit hard first!

Psychic powers how they used to be, dunno why some see a issue here.

Maybe chapter and subfaction rules will be realised in form of chapter or subfaction specific detachment to choose instead of the generic ones?

@danielbest2280

Жыл бұрын

No as they have already stated detachments will very rarely be locked to a specific paint scheme and can be used by everyone, sub factions are gone now so for example all salamanders, iron hands, imperial fists, white scars and raven guard are just different colour ultramarines from now on

Reallly it's Just Psychic and Subfaction losses that really stick out as not great to me, otherwise everything else looks promising

For the guard limited to 6 infantry squads, you could still potentially take another 6 CADIAN infantry squads, 6 more insert random other infantry squad type, etc until you run out of points. For example: take 6 infantry squads, 6 Cadian shock trooper squads, 6 Catachan squads, 6 Death Corps squads, etc

Re: Rapid Ingress - I don't think it would allow you to get your assault units into charge range easily. If you drop them down wrong, the enemy gets to 1) shoot them them with a Fire Overwatch stratagem, and 2) shoot them in their shooting phase, and 3) shoot them again with a Fire Overwatch stratagem when you try to move them in your turn. I see it as meant to block the opponent's charge lanes with a chonky unit of your own

No dense cover is dumb too. -1 to hit is a good thing, watching table top tactics seeing a leman Russ take 6 mortal wounds for a plasma overcharge fail is flavourful and fun!. I play Orks. If bs modifiers are punishing for them then give them the faction rule. "I can't miss it If Iz isn't aiming" Orks ignore all BS skill modifiers. I hate cultures of "STREAMLINING" it's so often a byword for Laziness.

Looking like 10th Ed rule are playing into Astra Militarium playbook.. morale changes mean they'll keep shooting longer & vehicle rules mean they have more vehicles AND anti-vehicle tools

concerned for the squading leaders will work. I run CSM (red corsairs), theres ZERO bike characters in CSM and i run mainly bikes

As a Crimson Fists player, the loss of old subfaction rules may be among my fav changes. I was tired of having to play them as White Scars to stand a chance in my game group. After all, Marines are Marines (barring the Codex Supplement chapters) and switching between detachment rules simply sounds better to me, as these could be able to perfectly embody the philosophy of your chapter but also give you the option of "shifting the focus" when needed. I always have the option of building "lore-friendly" lists that favor the units most associated with my Chapter. After all, whats more immersion-breaking: having more unified rules or having your whole army turned into a proxy of a better chapter?

@lemonworm

Жыл бұрын

idk i feel like the result will be very similar to your white scar proxy where it feels like youre playing an army only in name because the actual rules are just unified and generic and the same as any other space marines. Obv we dont know how itll fully work but, id rather a few poeople proxy for a better armys stats then just everything being the same

@anophelesnow3957

Жыл бұрын

Yes, what do you have to do now? Play White Scars and use a captain as counts-as Pedro Kantor?

I don't think weapon keywords are going limit the "specialness" of factions as you can have certain factions have a lot more of a certain keyword. For example, Elder might have more ignores cover and sustained hits then other factions. Meanwhile Tau smart missiles might now be ignore light of sight and lethal hits. So we might see certain keyword combos more common in different armies, but at the same time all flamers, meltas, and plasmas might have the same keywords as traditionally the have been very similar between armies. The return of twin-linked might be fine. Originally I like it because on average it had the same damage but with the potential of an extra hit. Unfortunately, it also made them swingy and combined with buffs twice as powerful. So I like the return of them being not swingy but reliable. Removing sub factions and switching to detachments is good IF, AND ONLY IF, the detachment are pretty much a replacement. I like the idea that I can have one Space Marine army of my choice and play it differently each time and not limited to the play style of a sub faction. It can also mix things up as some one may have a shooty Blood Angles army and the enemy can't expect them to just be melee focused. I think lore wise it makes sense as every SM chapter is proficient in each fighting style. It is just that certain chapters, like White Scars, prefer one fighting style over another. But most chapters still have reserve companies with of a single type. Such as 9th Company is traditionally fire support. While normally reserve companies are not deployed as a whole, sometimes they are and it makes sense that they then would use a fire support detachment instead of what their chapter is normally known for. I actually sold off and got rid of my Dark Angles a few years ago when they introduced a bunch of new units and DA didn't have access to them. So removing that limitation by having detachments could be benefitable. My finally thoughts are I am sadden by the psychic changes. I like that it is mixed into the turns according to what they do, but I think they over did it. Powerful psykers, like Librarians, should have been lone operatives. They then should have had three abilities to chose from during the game because lets be honest, out of the six, most people only wanted one, maybe two. You can still only cast one or two a turn, but one is a default that doesn't require a roll, like smite, and the others would. I will probably be retiring my Deathwatch Librarian because I don't think he will be worth taking now, especially if I lose access to the 5+ invulnerable save he granted. It seems like a Captian and/or Lieutenant would be a better leader(s) to attach now.

Im thinking of the 3+ or better save is that your armour is better than whatever cover could provide so it doesn't matter except against AP weaponry as it slows them enough to potentially prevent penetration. Bit of a stretch but not a huge one.

The (presumed) loss of Successor Tactics-esque rules is the part of 10th that I am the most bummed about. I really liked my Stalwart RG Successors, it made them feel how I wanted them to. That said, I am aware that Successor Tactics (etc) weren't used by many people, and that they complicate the game. Still, I am bummed. I no longer get to make the "laughs in Stalwart" joke anymore. 😢

@andrewbakescakes9684

Жыл бұрын

You might get something similar eventually - or at least a way to simulate being an RG successor. Not necessarily the Build-a-Bear errrr Successor that exists currently, but a way to represent RG and its successors well enough.

I feel like astra militarum artillery should have a bonus against shell shocked troops.

Aside from the objective rules and making paint not matter If they would have just changed the charge phase to give you movement of one of the dice when you fail & brought back 8th moral but if you step out of melee you can get hit again would have made the entire game better

My only gripe are twin linked weapons. We don’t see what chaos knights have yet but twin linked avengers or thermals is a total waste.

@Vinterloft

Жыл бұрын

As long as upgrades don't become twin-linked it could be fine. It would be irritating if Crisis Suits went back to automatically becoming twin-linked if you take two of the same gun again. That was the worst.

Weapon Keywords instead of special abilities might kill more unique weapons like the Shokk Attakk Gun

@sebastianbrady234

Жыл бұрын

These can always be covered as abilities on the sheet

I feel like its way too early to worry about psychic heavy armies... we got no idea how many powers each unit will get, or if theres ways to choose additional powers, or what their faction ability will be. Kinda weird to write off a change over a lack of variety when we've only seen 2 psykers so far, neither of which are from psychic heavy factions.

@rufusmarmaduke5670

Жыл бұрын

you cant seriously say that this new librarian we saw doesnt clearly offer less variety.

@Swampert919

Жыл бұрын

@@rufusmarmaduke5670 im talking about psychic heavy armies that are most likely gonna have a faction ability, subfaction abilities, and enhancements (warlord traits and relics) all focused on psychic powers... far too early to complain about lack of varity when we have only seen two psykers that arent even from psychic heavy armies.

While 40Ks rules were bloated it's obvious GW has been listening even more to the tournament crowd to make the game as fast as possible; thats not such a good thing, though im liking most of the 10ed changes.

@thecappeningchannel515

Жыл бұрын

Making it smaller and playing it at around 1500pts would be better imo

@Neothunder240

Жыл бұрын

@@thecappeningchannel515 Yeah I really wish the standard was moved back to 1500 points and the old 6x4 boards. Smaller boards and bigger point sizes make the game feel too cramped.

@thecappeningchannel515

Жыл бұрын

@@Neothunder240 totally agree. Add the increased base sizes and ludicrous terrain and there is barely space to move.

@stevencarmody1755

Жыл бұрын

You don't need terrain they made it irrelevant again they're making things lose ap soooo unless you're being hit by a power weapon you're still going to die to overwhelming dice and your save will be whatever it is against ap 0 guns

@Neothunder240

Жыл бұрын

@@stevencarmody1755 But terrain is much better and intuitive in 10th?

Well you could do the fighting sword scene in season 3 of Mandalorian. Heck you can add a jetpack to a suit of armor from periods of each time and see how well that works.

The fact vehicles, heck even other units being more Viable will keep games interesting and not just the same old stuff over and over. Of course people will find new ways and have a load out.... But it seems more broad than say a redemptor spam

Something that no one seems to be talking about is that, in addition to everything else that changed about Psychic powers, Smite got *gutted.* It looks cool because d6 shots at d3 damage, but if you run the numbers, it's actually much worse than it used to be. Against MEQs (T4 with a 3+ save), the Focused Witchfire will be roughly equivalent to the old Smite in terms of damage output, but at a vastly greater risk to yourself. Every time you use the Focused Witchfire you take an average of 0.58 MW (as opposed to previously, where a 2/36 chance for Perils meant that you took on average 0.11 MW per cast). Against TEQs or vehicles, the effectiveness falls off rapidly. The Thousand Sons are already very limited in their anti-tank capabilities and dumping mortal wounds into a tank was about all you could do unless you brought tanks of your own (which takes up a lot of points and interferes with the sorcerer cabal feel of the army). Now, with tanks becoming even more durable and Smite getting unnecessarily nerf-hammered, TSons bringing Predators or Vindicators is basically going to become mandatory, because otherwise the army could be hard-countered by a handful of Rhinos (against T9 and a 3+ save, even with the Focused Witchfire that's one wound on average per cast, which the Rhino automatically heals at the beginning of its Command Phase via self repair, while still doing 0.58 MW to yourself per cast).

@garryhewitt1053

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Currently we have no way of knowing what anti-tank options they will have. In fact the could give something anti-vehicle key word (chain fist wrecks vehicles) or have high strength psychic attacks (see headbang on ork). It is understandable that people are cautious, even worried, but the levers are there for GW to pull.