Play War Thunder now with my link, and get a massive, free bonus pack including vehicles, boosters and more: playwt.link/davemckeegan

@bosunbones.8815

8 ай бұрын

Mogami... Not Mogabi. 😊 A mis-speak or misheard on my part but the world of warships in me cringed just a little 😂

@kenchristie9214

8 ай бұрын

Whilst serving in the RAAF at Fairbairn Base, Canberra in 1970. A Vulcan landed at the base and the ground crew thought it would be a great idea to stick a day glow kangaroo on the tail. The airmen responsible were called up before the squadron C.O. and the RAF pilot, and hauled over the coals because the kangaroo made the aircraft visible to radar. Remember, at the height of the cold war a Vulcan famously flew over the Pentagon. The Pentagon had previously announced to the world that no aircraft could penetrate U.S. radar defense.

@madrandomize5115

8 ай бұрын

Dave is using logic against flat earther. It's super ineffective.

@s.cottrill

8 ай бұрын

That was a smooth transition in the video. Im a prime member and didn't skip the baked in ad because of how smooth it was.

@DaveMcKeegan

8 ай бұрын

@@bosunbones.8815 Seems I was channeling my inner Jingles 😂

The mention of (ship) artillery and the rotation of the earth reminds me of a little anecdote from long ago when I was an artilleryman in the army. I was an instructor in fire control and taught that subject to conscripted NCOs. One day, after a lesson in which I had explained how they had to take the rotation of the Earth into account when calculating the shooting data, I was playfully surprised by them that they had understood the concept. To show this to me, they came up with a joke during the smoke break between two lessons. At some point it was time for the lunch break. I ended the lesson and after giving permission to go to the cafeteria, the whole class suddenly started jumping up and down in place. To my surprised question as to what was happening, the answer was: "Given our location and that of the canteen, the direction towards it and the direction of the Earth's rotation, in theory, after making enough jumps in place, we should end up in the canteen. It may take a while, so we apologize in advance for coming back late from the break." Of course they completely understood that it doesn't work that way, but it made me laugh so much that I gave them some extra time for their lunch. I miss those conscripted men and their eternal urge to be as recalcitrant as possible!

@Christian.Lee_

8 ай бұрын

That makes me think of how many people must be on the payroll of the flerf conspiracy. Everyone in artillery, imagery analysis, sigint, and all naval personnel must be getting paid off. I picked the wrong MOS.

@zbeebs

8 ай бұрын

Well, sure, that will get them to the canteen, but how are they going to get back?

@brothergrimaldus3836

8 ай бұрын

13F!!! Steel reign!!!

@BoBandits

8 ай бұрын

I learned a new word! "Recalcitrant" ... Me...

@compmanio36

8 ай бұрын

@@zbeebs The long way, of course. They're going to be VERY late.

Imagine the sheer number of ships you'd need to maintain continuous surveillance on that scale, and the additional ships you'd need to maintain them and their logistical requirements. All to ensure people don't see an ice wall. For some reason.

@GeistView

8 ай бұрын

Flerfs forgot about the immense logistics that would need to be implemented to that blockade. And not a single sailor talks about it when on leave.

@brolinofvandar

7 ай бұрын

Maybe that's why we've had such a time with things like piracy off the coast of Somalia. The Navy's were too busy patrolling the "ice wall". Funny how I never heard of any of those deployments when I was in the Navy.

@ARockRaider

7 ай бұрын

these are the same people that think all governments are all working together to keep a secret without a clear reason why, yet can't disappear these flerfs who have next to no resources. no matter how you look at a flerf argument it fails so painfully obviously it's hard to even think of a way to talk to them.

@foogod4237

7 ай бұрын

A while back (for a SciManDan video, I believe), I actually did the calculations for this. To effectively patrol the entire perimeter of a flat circular map as they claim, it would require a combined, dedicated operating fleet about twice as big as all of the combined navies of every nation on Earth, plus enough ports, crew, services, and supplies to keep them all running 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. And yet somehow despite employing more military personnel and needing more support facilities _and more military spending_ than _all of the rest of the world's navies combined,_ and the careful cooperation of _every government in the world,_ they've somehow been running this whole operation _completely in secret_ for over 60 years now, with nobody in the public even aware it exists...

@teathesilkwing7616

7 ай бұрын

@@foogod4237actually there’s just 1 dude guarding it at a time he’s just really fast

Flat earther's often make the false claim that the Sea Sparrow's maximum range against high-flying aircraft is its line of sight range against surface targets. During the World Wars, sailors would often spot the smoke of enemy ships long before the ships were visible due to the curvature of the Earth. That couldn't happen on a flat plane. There is a term for vessels who's lower parts are hidden by Earth curvature: "Hull down." No amount of magnification will reveal the hidden hull.

@Isolder74

8 ай бұрын

They also claim the radar is located at the missile mount and it can’t get any info from anywhere else. Just pretend Aegis doesn’t exist or the radars mounted on the top of the ships.

@onlyme972

8 ай бұрын

Works for islands to, first you see clouds the slowly the iops of mountains, eventually the entire islandm

@WorldWokeApeCult

8 ай бұрын

And "hull up" as well, both terms being in use during the Age of Sail, when you saw the tops of a vessel's masts and sails long before the hull.

@tommosher8271

8 ай бұрын

Liar

@WorldWokeApeCult

8 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 Who? And which part is a lie?

That NATO tech Mark Sargent talked to was having a laugh at marks experience. The guy was on the Iwo Jima. I was stationed on the Wasp during the same time frame. The Wasp is the flag ship of the class that Iwo belongs to. So because my ship was in a maintenance availability i was sent underway on the Iwo Jima to get all of my basic qualifications and training done. Being familiar with the ships combat systems setup and navigation systems/equipment, hearing him describe to Mark how those things work, it quickly became apparent that he was talking out of his ass. It was pretty hilarious watching how excited Mark got when he thought he was talking to some sort of defector from inside the system.

OMG!! At 16:10 that Ticonderoga class cruiser is CG-52 the USS Bunker Hill. I served onboard her in the mid 90’s. Nice to see her again. Thanks Dave.

@joerichardson4325

8 ай бұрын

My (late) cousin served (actually was a plankowner) on the USS Leyte Gulf CG55, as an ET3 (communications) in the late '80's/early '90's. I was an AT with an S-3 Viking squadron deployed on the USS Nimitz and the USS Theodore Roosevelt during the same timeframe. Loved this video seeing the Hawkeyes (Eye In The Sky) and submarines which we attempted to track (Soviets). Thanks for your service, Sailor!

@kevinwebster7868

7 ай бұрын

@@joerichardson4325 I looked into the Bunker Hill and sadly found out she was just decommissioned on September 22nd.

@rthompsn2007

7 ай бұрын

@@joerichardson4325 Got to love the Web in these modern times. From your comment, 'plankowner', a word I had never before encountered: what the heck is that? Looked it up, fascinating concept! And thank you for your service!

@joerichardson4325

7 ай бұрын

@@rthompsn2007 Thanks! Yeah, my cousin passed away 2 yrs ago in his late 50's, so not sure what the protocol is for his "plank" when the Leyte Gulf gets scrapped. Maybe they'll send it to one of his 4 kids, or grandkids. Something I'm gonna need to research. Take care!

A giant ice wall and water being where space is makes sense but living on a ball is just a step too far 😂

@mrsnoo86

8 ай бұрын

and a small Sun, a small moon and a BIG EARTH. EARTH is BIGGER than Sun in Flat Earth's idiotlogy.

@j4nk3n

8 ай бұрын

​@@mrsnoo86"we don't see any discs floating in space because space isn't real" and "the horizon doesn't curve" which is one of my favourites because even at altitude the edge of a round flat disc is....well it's a curve obviously 😅

@TheHellis

8 ай бұрын

According to some guy the Germans (Nazis) live past the ice wall together with aliens and Libya.

@Mandelbrot_Set

8 ай бұрын

One of the flerfs keeps telling me that we should see the Sun larger than the Earth if it is 93 million miles away. He won't explain why he makes that claim, but I am supposed to explain why it doesn't happen.

@j4nk3n

8 ай бұрын

@@Mandelbrot_Set you could tell a flerf that water is wet and they would argue the contrary with some half baked nonsense logic but expect you to hand in a 100 page essay explaining yourself which they won't pay any attention to anyway 🤣

The Stealth Bomber (B-2 Spirit) and other similar (such as the F-117 Nighthawk) it isn't just the paint that 'absorbs' the radar, the shape of the craft plays a big part too, and it's also other materials it's made out of that can absorb, not just the paint ;)

@Mandelbrot_Set

8 ай бұрын

Yes, the geometry reflects the energy away from the sender.

@brolinofvandar

7 ай бұрын

@@Mandelbrot_Set On a slight bit of a side note, years ago Car & Driver magazine did a study in which they tested the "radar range" of various vehicles. Of course, in this case it was speed radar (which uses Doppler effect) and not a search radar (which uses pulses). They used standard police radars of the time and approached them with various vehicles, measuring the distance at which they first got a lock for each vehicle type. Not surprisingly, a Corvette had the least radar signature and had to get closer than any other to be detected. Credited to the fiberglass body and the fact that the radiator tilts back, so it would tend to reflect the radar signal at an upward angle. Worst case, also unsurprising, was a semi-truck. Tall, flat (especially in those days) front ends, and larger than most. An interesting conclusion from that data was the scenario in which a Corvette would be in visual range of the officer manning the gun, but not yet actually radar range, while a distant semi far enough off not be noticed could possibly be in range. Which means it would be possible for the Corvette to get a ticket for the trucks speed, since the officer would be looking at the Corvette, and see the radar go off, before ever seeing the truck. So, yeah, materials and geometry definitely play a part in radar visibility, and stealth technology is about making use of that to minimize the radar signature as much as possible.

@christobotha7848

7 ай бұрын

Triangles.

Flerf counter-argument incoming : "Nuuuuuh-uh !"

@thephantomeagle2

8 ай бұрын

Or they’ll mention some anonymous “pilot” or “pilots” that “know it’s flat”. That’s the biggest “argument” I’ve heard at any airplane globe proof.

@joshuaelek

8 ай бұрын

"Azumithal grid of nuuuuh-uh."

@christobotha7848

7 ай бұрын

bUt mY bOoK.

@thephantomeagle2

7 ай бұрын

@@christobotha7848 you're talking about Eric Dumbay's 200 bla bla bla repeat blah blah repeat repeat book?

I'm sure you can correct any misunderstandings on my part. Take three observers at the North Pole. They look up at the night sky and can all see Polaris directly (give or take) overhead. If they travel south, towards Asia, Europe, and North America , Polaris will appear to descend in the sky, until it sinks below the horizon as they reach the equator. Continuing south, if they all look south, they all see the same stars. How, in the name of all the waters of the firmament, can that possibly happen on a flat earth?

@gowdsake7103

8 ай бұрын

EQ telescope mount as well. Yes you are correct

@khandimahn9687

8 ай бұрын

Ask a flat earther that and see what hilarious answer they give.

@JWRogersPS

8 ай бұрын

They will flatly deny that any of that will happen. Their ability to ignore reality is without bounds.

@michaelcrispin1879

8 ай бұрын

It's called atmospheric refraction of the air molecules between the ears of the flat earther where normally a brain would be.

@stellacollector

8 ай бұрын

They will bring up their ultimate irrefutable cheat code: "Personal domes make that possible."

I'm so glad that you brought up naval ships and artillery to debunk flat Earth. When it comes to launching projectiles during a battle, the number one priority is accuracy - the projectile must hit a target. So why would the navy build expensive equipment and do complex calculations based on a GLOBE EARTH model to aim their guns accurately if the Earth was flat?

@jimmynimbus757

8 ай бұрын

Flat earthers don’t believe in math either apparently

@5peciesunkn0wn

7 ай бұрын

Well, given how many of them seem to have somehow failed kindergarten... They don't understand math.

@Llanchlo

7 ай бұрын

It's part of the conspiracy. The global corrections are not actually applied to the guns.

@paulzuk1468

7 ай бұрын

The first navy which built a flat-Earth compliant battleship in a world filled with fake globe-Earth compliant ones would immediately dominate the world. No one would be able to stop them unless they converted, too. But apparently no one did that because ummm they wanted to be sporting? Or something?

@billmullins6833

7 ай бұрын

Because flat earthers believe they are always the smartest people in the room and anybody who is willing to fight (and possibly die) for their country is a total moron. Since all armed services members are idiots it only follows that the armed forces would spend crap tons of money on totally unneeded equipment!

Simple story. Working on a 909 radar we had the dish flat to the horizon. We picked up an unexpected target at 5 miles, we had not been directed to it our radar having a narrow beam. We asked the ops room no targets seen. the range went down to zero the dish still flat. Then the range was 99 miles ! We locked on and tracked the target from horizon to horizon The target was travelling at over Mach 1 It was at just over 40000 feet( estimated ) We never acquired a target at that range again it was beyond the scope of our 965 radar We eventually worked out that the only aircraft it could be was Concorde, the only reason we picked it up was it was so high A low flying aircraft could hide at 15 miles Surface targets could be detected at about the same range depending on how tall they were No other target could fly high enough other than maybe a Blackbird or a Lightning Our standard max range was 30 miles The fact that we need aircraft as radar spotters demonstrates the curve the higher the radar the further its range. Radar power is not really a limiting factor Missiles do not fire AT an aircraft they fire at its predicted position or they end up in a tail end chase

@nigeh5326

8 ай бұрын

The top scoring WW2 RAF Ace Johnny Johnson talked about this and how the best shots were guys who had a natural ability to take into account lead, relative angles and speeds etc. He found men who had experience of shooting birds in civilian life and were good at it understood by instinct what was needed.

@DoctorShocktor

8 ай бұрын

⁠@@nigeh5326Shooters get good at bird shooting and skeet, etc. by knowledge, training, and practice. No one is “born with skills”, they simply understand the variables and practice to get better. If someone doesn’t understand what is involved, that’s a separate issue. Now people may have faster reflexes or better eyesight, but that is another story.

@Mandelbrot_Set

8 ай бұрын

Private Joker : How can you shoot women or children? Door Gunner : Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?

@ShadowPhoenix82

8 ай бұрын

I think he says that in the video. Also, not sure the first two words are accurate lol.

@christianege4989

7 ай бұрын

That's not true. Your brain can be "wired" better for certain things by nature. This is scientific proven. @@DoctorShocktor

And just in case: Those accelerometers are not literally low tech weights on springs. That's an illustration to help us idiots get a clearer picture. The accelerometers are piezoelectric like the ones in your phone. They create electrical currents due to changes in pressure. Thought I'd put that in since that stupid pour water on a globe thing is stuck in my head and gives me a headache makes me think of what silly thing a flat earther would complain about.

@kenbrown2808

8 ай бұрын

for a scale representation of water on a globe, get a pool (pocket billiards) ball wet. it will have a thicker layer of water than the deep parts of the ocean, and more surface texture than the earth.

@Tsudico

8 ай бұрын

@@kenbrown2808 For another example, if the Earth were the size of a basketball then the "ribs" on the basketball are a greater difference in elevation than from Mt. Everest to Challenger Deep.

@jwb932

8 ай бұрын

You lost all the flat earthers at piezoelectric.

@kenbrown2808

8 ай бұрын

@@jwb932 they think it supports their dirt piezo model.

@Mr_Rouge

8 ай бұрын

@@jwb932 They were lost at "weights on springs"...

My buddy is in the Navy, in navigation. Even THEN my uncle who is a flat earther refuses to believe a word my mate says, and when he gets technical about navigation, my uncle just laughs and says its a lie. Its truely quite sad.

@stanislavbandur7355

6 ай бұрын

what about Bursch Khalifa? - you can experience two sunset or two sunrises there (or any other very tall building with quite fast elevator nearby)

@tjjones621

6 ай бұрын

Start asking your uncle about the map he uses to drive around and start calling him a globie. Tell him as long as he is using the same map all the globies use, he is proof of how mass indoctrination really works. No matter what he says or how he tries to change the subject, just keep calling him globie and map boy and the indoctrinated one. It will be most effective in getting into his indoctrinated mind because there is one, and only one, proof that all fe'rs personally own, use and rely on. All of them, the exact same map. He absolutely knows for a fact that he is not using any FE map... :)

if i had a nickel every time a flat earther had an argument with me i had 0 nickels, i never had an argument with a flat earther (thank god)

@MaxHackbarth

8 ай бұрын

If I had a nickel for every time a flat earther was correct with anything they said, I’d have zero nickels

@vincesimard

8 ай бұрын

If i bet my life savings on the flat earth team being right, i'd owe a lot of money😂

@Mandelbrot_Set

8 ай бұрын

MCToon has several $10,000 challenges for flat earthers to accomplish certain things, such as use flat Earth methods for celestial navigation. AFAIK, he has received no entries that follow the rules. It is rare for a flat earther to even read the rules. They usually just say, "Pay me my money."

@tomfromamerica8042

8 ай бұрын

Angry, you try it! Have an argument with a flerfer sometime. In a battle of wits, they are ludicrously *unarmed!* 😂😂😂

@thephantomeagle2

8 ай бұрын

Being the oldest of 5 I learned long long ago ti never go into any battle I don’t know very very well. I also refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

In that case, wouldn't a flat Earth mean we'd only need one air-traffic control center?

@paulzuk1468

7 ай бұрын

Well, a few - because of attenuation (atmosphere absorbing radio waves) but yes, ATC would look drastically different on a flat earth, as would air defence. Today, over-the-horizon radars can't be used for fire control because of the way they work (basically, using specific wavelengths that refract easily to yeet the signal further than a horizon would normally allow) So to defend yourself from nuclear bombers, you need huge OTH installations for early warning, and an extensive network of smaller radars for local command and fire control. On a flat Earth, you could absolutely have fire control radars capable of guiding missiles onto incoming bombers from hundreds or thousans of kilometres. There'd be no need to have a network of local air defence cells, just have several enormous radars sitting prety behind an impregnable wall of defences, guiding missiles from local batteries onto the threat without said batteries needing to emit anything themselves (and thus being basically undetectable until they fired). Add in some medium SAMs and SHORAD to plug gaps in valleys and such and you could have a basically impenetrable air defence network. I bet North Vietnam would've loved to have that.

@scottplumer3668

7 ай бұрын

@@paulzuk1468 thanks for the insight!

The information about gravity gradient navigation was exceptionally awesome! I certainly want to know more. Ftfe is awesome!

The other point about crow’s nests etc on ships is that, if we were on planet Pizza, the shape between the crow’s nest, the bottom of the mast and the observed ship would be a right angled triangle. What’s more, the line of sight between the crow’s nest and the observed ship would be the hypotenuse of that triangle, which would actually be marginally longer than the distance between the bottom of the mast and the observed ship. So there would be no benefit from having a crow’s nests, sending lookouts up the mast or even mounting a radar up there. Yet these things were (and are done). Therefore…

@PabloSanchez-qu6ib

8 ай бұрын

To be fair a bit of height would probably have been helpful on old low decked ships to see reliably over the waves, but certainly not at the very top of the mast.

@bob_the_bomb4508

7 ай бұрын

@@PabloSanchez-qu6ib if the waves are regularly higher than your deck you’re in a submarine mate :) But yes :)

@PabloSanchez-qu6ib

7 ай бұрын

@@bob_the_bomb4508 nah. This is not a submarine and I suppose that whooping alarm is the call for mess. These guys must be very hungry seeing how fast they are running!

Dave; your intro was a forehead-slap moment for me. As a military aviator and an offshore sailor, I’m able to call upon multiple real-world experiences to question and/or refute flat-earth arguments (over-the-horizon cultural lighting & lighthouses, terrain-following radar, gps vs loran, etc) but hadn’t thought about ‘blue water’ navy and submariner’s challenges and solutions to navigation on a sphere. I was familiar with artillery firing solutions, but there were many items in your video that were informative and illuminating. Thank you for continuing to create and post your videos, and for your low-key informative delivery style. You remind me of the best of my teachers growing up in UK

There is an excellent video on the Drachinifel channel called "Range-finding and Fire Control - Plotting Your Demise", which deals with naval gunnery up to, and including WW2. At around 32 min it talks about fire control computers, and at about 39 min it lists all the corrections required for accurate gunnery.

@hartmutholzgraefe

8 ай бұрын

Drachinifel - pretty much *the* go-to place for everything naval warfare :)

@nickierv13

7 ай бұрын

@@hartmutholzgraefe And torpedo boats...

@-ZM_Gaming-

7 ай бұрын

Literally my Naval History Teacher

I like bringing up the Eotvos effect on long range naval guns and artillery. Fire to the east you get more range than west, which is due to the rotation of the planet and gravity.

@jimmynimbus757

8 ай бұрын

Don’t say gravity around flat earthers. That’s their magical barrier that holds the pyramids in place 😏

Just for edification- "The U.S. Naval Observatory's Earth Orientation Department is responsible for determining and predicting the time-varying alignment of the Earth's terrestrial reference frame with respect to the celestial reference frame, commonly referred to as Earth Orientation Parameters (EOPs). USNO is the International Earth Rotation and Reference Systems Service (IERS) Rapid Service/Prediction Center (RS/PC) for Earth Orientation.

If earth was flat: 1. Sunset would not be possible. There is no single reasonable explanation for sunset on flat earth. 2. Horizon would always slowly fade away due to air pollution OR you would see infinitely far away. Without horizon you could see strong light from the other side of earth. 3. There is air pressure gradient, always, even if you take only h2o particles they’re pushing on themselves, even though density for them is the same. Meaning there is external force. 4. You can clearly see small planes over large body of water that are directly over large land that stays hidden. 5. Going on a plane start recording on ground, you will see that in the middle of the frame flat objects are flat. At cruising height horizon will be visibly curved. Same video, same lens, same plane window. 6. During equinox sun rises exactly from east and sets exactly west. Not possible on flat earth unless sun is in different location for every observer on earth. I could go forever, every experiment where you set your expectations right (I would expect so see A if earth is a globe of size X and B if earth is flat) points to globe earth. People know earth is not flat for thousands of years, few dozen idiots found a way to make money on gullible people by selling them lies about flat earth.

@OfnionGidnir

8 ай бұрын

I can guarantee, mentioning sunset and sunrise is like a flerf repellent. They 'nope' the hell out of the conversation in a second.

@forthphoto

8 ай бұрын

@@OfnionGidnir they do it for any argument or any reply to their argument. Fe: Why horizon is flat? Me: Take a hula hoop to eye level, horizon, like hula hoop is a circle around you and close to your eye level, that why. Now why is it sharp and close as it would be on globe, and not far away and slowly fading away due to air pollution as it would on flat earth? And he’s gone. Every single time I want to talk to one and ask questions they disappear

@stanislavbandur7355

6 ай бұрын

@@forthphoto problem is that flat Earth should to have round horizon too. FlatEarthers explain day and night by some gibberish about finite reach of light, then even on infinite flat plane you can see only perimeter which is round.

If Earth were flat, there would be no beyond the horizon. With enough magnification, you would see all of Earth making aircraft as supplements to naval vessels less of a necessity. Engagement at longer ranges could be done with missiles instead.

Hi Dave, I was just thinking, "one ping only Vasily", and Sean Connery beat me too it! Have you heard of the WW1 battle of the Falkland Islands, Admiral Von Spee was going to shell Port Stanley, but he discovered a British fleet re-coaling in the harbour, they included 2 much more powerful Battlecruisers, Von Spee high-tailed it, with Invincible and Inflexible in hot pursuit. At first the British gunnery officers couldn't figure out why they kept missing, until someone twigged they were using Coriolis corrections for the Northern Hemisphere instead of the Southern.

@Katy_Jones

8 ай бұрын

And the reason he knew they were major units was because of their tripod masts.. Those globe proofs keep cropping up in the ral world.

@DaveMcKeegan

8 ай бұрын

The original Scharnhorst & Gneisenau pairing 😉 I actually did some reading up on the coriolis claims as I was going to include them in this video but seems it's actually an urban legend

@nicksykes4575

8 ай бұрын

@@DaveMcKeegan Bugger!!! Now I know how a flerf feels when they've been debunked. Only difference is, I shall stop referencing it. Btw, please give Rusty a scritch behind the ear from me.

@DaveMcKeegan

8 ай бұрын

@@nicksykes4575 😂 It might be true but I couldn't find any official accounts to support it, only people claiming it happened and other people claiming it didn't - although it was pointed out that at most it would have been the opening salvo that didn't have the right corrections because the next salvo would have immediately added the required corrections based on the fall of the first salvo

@nicksykes4575

8 ай бұрын

@@DaveMcKeeganOne of the main things I've learnt from your vids is, they're consistently, meticulously well researched, and comprehensively detailed. If you can't find any evidence, I'm ready to ascribe it as an urban myth, a bit like the ol two finger salute at Agincourt!

Said this about ships myself, that Battleships and Cruisers as an example, had equipment and gunners who were *trained to factor in the coriolis effect* into their firing solutions, which they wouldn't have to do on a space Frisbee...

I've been pointing this out to flerfs for years. They don't get it. The analog fire control computers on North Carolina, South Dakota and Iowa Class battleships were designed to account for the curvature of the earth because the ranges of those 16" guns were well beyond the horizon.

@htownblack9184

8 ай бұрын

Ok fine now what formula is used to find earths curvature?

@ddbrock9675

8 ай бұрын

@@htownblack9184 Let me guess, you're going to cite the 8 inches per mile squared nonsense, aren't you? Please say yes...

@uwillnevahno6837

8 ай бұрын

if only there were a search engine one could use to ask questions.....@@htownblack9184

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

7 ай бұрын

If I remember correctly, the only paper Willis Lee wrote for his fellow officers was about this.

@gatling216

7 ай бұрын

@@user-gl5dq2dg1jAnd then put it into action by deleting the Kirishima with the Washington.

I have a copy of the Army Tabular Firing Tables for the 155mm gun system, which has similar tables for correction for curvature of the earth. As an army artillery NCO, I have massive respect for my naval compatriots. At least my guns weren’t moving when I calculated my firing data.

@phildavenport4150

7 ай бұрын

I was a TARA on an arty board in the 60s in a CMF field arty regiment. All I got to do was calculate distance and Oscar Tango. All the exciting stuff was done between my calcs and what the guns got. The IG was a great help explaining the corrections required, and the charge number necessary. Never got to observe the fall of shot though, which was a bit disappointing.

Gunnery tables. Globe confirmed 💯🌎

@Isolder74

8 ай бұрын

Adm Willy’s Lee. The man turned whatever ship he was on into a deadly sniper. He could do the ballistics calculations in his head and out do the plotting computer.

@gowdsake7103

8 ай бұрын

@@Isolder74 Wronggggg wouldnt work on a ship

@peteradamski1184

8 ай бұрын

​@@gowdsake7103why wouldn't it work on a ship?

@Isolder74

8 ай бұрын

@@gowdsake7103 It’s math, admittedly complex math but why wouldn’t it work? He has all the same information the mechanical computer does? Frankly, the man was just that good.

@DoctorShocktor

8 ай бұрын

⁠@@Isolder74Yeah no. It’s loads of fun imagining super human heros, but the reason analog and later digital computers crushed human calculations is that they calculated CONTINUOSLY with data being fed to them by human observers turning cranks in real time, then later radars doing the same thing electronically. So unless Adm Willly Lee (whoever the hell that is) had a bunch of cables, gears and cranks shoved up his ass, he not coming anywhere close to beating out the gunnery computers.

"Railguns don't fire "shells" they fire Projectiles, which makes your argument moot, therefore and ergo your wrong and da earf is flat!" Lol....

@swe-timberwolf3642

8 ай бұрын

The only difference between a shell and a projectile is that the projectile does not contain any explosives. It does not change anything.

@tomfromamerica8042

8 ай бұрын

​@swe-timberwolf3642 , I'm pretty sure this is Dr Shoe's point. Flerfer don't know the difference and so they believe it actually matters.

@zar3434

8 ай бұрын

If we're picking nits, you load a shell (sabot, explosive, projectile) into the gun, the projectile is expelled from the barrel and the empty sabot is ejected from the chamber. Railguns get rid of the sabot and explosive, but the end result is the same as a gun, they both emit a projectile. Also, claiming an argument is invalid because someone spoke colloquially rather than pedantically is childish.

@tomfromamerica8042

8 ай бұрын

@zar3434 , he isn't nit-picking, rather he's quoting that flerfs nit-pick. And, you're right that is a stupid argument.

@zar3434

8 ай бұрын

@@tomfromamerica8042 Apologies all around then. I have a hard time picking up sarcasm & such without an indicator.

Flat earthers should all unite and start up a comedy club, they seem to have a lot of talent at it.

The Iowa class Battleships have an old analog computer they used for fire control of the big 16 inch guns. Part of the input is the latitude of the ship. If it was a flat earth the latitude wouldn’t matter, but on a globe you have to account for the Coriolis or your shots will land off target. And most battleships either had a spotter plane or sailed with a ship that did, specifically to see where the shells landed. Because the guns had enough range that they were firing over the horizon and couldn’t see the ships they were firing on, let alone where the shells were landing. A flat earth wouldn’t require any of that, and no military would spend money to conceal a conspiracy theory that would get ships sunk.

Awesome video as always Dave, I’m active duty Army and always thought that military navigation in general proves the earth is a globe. You would think that the government would give us special maps that depict a flat earth so we can do their bidding efficiently, but no, all of our navigation has to take curvature into account to be correct, not just naval, but land as well. Keep up the good fight.

Being in the Navy finally came in handy. This video made a 1000% sense, I finally understood every concept with 💯 % accuracy that I could have explained it to flat earthers for once.

I approve, use of Hunt for Red October 👍

@kenbrown2808

8 ай бұрын

I had just been thinking about that clip when he showed it.

@Ass_Burgers_Syndrome

8 ай бұрын

Haven't seen that in years. I think I might watch it today.

@kenbrown2808

8 ай бұрын

@Adi-bo5do i forget. Which country is it that is currently invading a neighbor country to take over their territory, and threatening to use nukes if thwarted?

The tall masts for lookouts and fire control directors also lessen the stability of the ship by adding weight so far above the center of buoyancy. Also, being quite heavy if they're going to survive bad weather, they add overall weight that could otherwise be used for guns, armor, or more powerful engines. No ship after the age of sail would have had them if they didn't offer such a huge advantage in spotting by extending the horizon.

The only successful sub on sub underwater attack in history was by HMS Venturer a British V-class submarine. It detected the engine noises of the U-864. Searching for the target via periscope a 3 hour cat and mouse chase ended when skipper Lt. Launders worked out a complex three-dimensional firing solution without turning on the subs ASDIC sonar. It's active ‘ping’ for contact would have revealed their own position.The torpedoes were launched 17 seconds apart, and took 4 minutes to reach the U-Boat one of which blew it apart. This was Launders second U-boat kill. The first was U-771 shadowed on the surface and torpedoed.

The gravity-sensing navigation of submarines is probably the coolest thing I've learned about from flat earth talk

Awesome content with phenomenal explanations that even the lay man can follow. Keep it up!!

@robertlafleur5179

8 ай бұрын

Maybe the lay man can follow but the flerfs will: a) ignore it b) say nuh-uh c) say ‘’to have radar you need a container’’ d) say any silly shit they can think of

Crow's nests were the place that all those sailors who believed the world was round were kept, so they didn't spread their lies to the flat earthers on deck below. As explained to me by a belligerent flerf a long time ago.😂

I served aboard the USS Midway during the Vietnam era. My duties revoked around inertial navigation. Submarine use SINS navigation so that they can know their location at sea. Inertial navigation systems use gyroscopes to maintain a level to earth platform so that accelerometers can measure the ship’s acceleration, update that acceleration to speed to accurately update latitude and longitude. The stable platform uses gyros to keep the table level and isolated from the ships pitch and roll. The platform is aligned to true north and this important to keep the speed data aligned on a N/S and E/W perspective. As a ship or submarine move over or under the surface of the earth, the platform holding the sensors must be kept level and the gyros send data to continuously torque the platform motor the fractions of degrees to maintain a level. It is critical that accelerometers be extremely level so that gravity does not interfere with detecting acceleration. When in port, the navigation remains on line and the torques corrections are applied to the stable table the earth rotation of 15.04 degrees per hour. This all works and is yet more proof of us living on a rotating globe. Several flat earth debunkers use the ships gyrocompass as prove of earth’s rotation. The SINS system operate at several degrees more accuracy. This is another reason that we know the earth is a sphere. The

@indetigersscifireview4360

7 ай бұрын

I wish we'd had SINS on board the frigate I served on. As it was the DRAI should have worked in a similar manner but it was never accurate based on our other means of navigation.

I find myself watching these sorts of videos not for the dead-horse-beating of the obvious against the mentally ill, but the amazing details of technologies I didn't know existed that use those odd maps I know I've seen but never knew what their practical purpose might be... Thanks Dave, and looking forward to more of these.

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

No you watch this because you can't think for yourself and you need this drunk to give you what you need to sleep at night.

@sparehead8911

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271The only one who can’t think for themselves is you, Tommo. That’s why you keep running away from any challenges put to you.

FTFE raises a very good point... If flerfers maintain that gravity is bogus and it's all about air density gradients (or some such crap) then how come gravity works underwater? 😂

@DoctorShocktor

8 ай бұрын

Nah, their nonsense is about density gradients in EVERY substance. Which still has no way of explaining why density and pressure is higher at the bottom of the sea.

I Really like the visualizations in your videos. makes it so much easier to understand, very interesting video dude keep it up!

I did gradient calculations in a navigation class recently. For us it was used for error correction in the face of noisy sensors in drones. My god the math is horrible... Really interesting stuff though.

I also want to point out that, not only are tall radar or conning towers going to make ships visible sooner and from further away, which is a liability in war. But the positioning and configuration of those towers also creates unique silhouettes that make it easier to *identify* a ship sooner and from further away, which is an additional liability in war. If your enemy spots you sooner *and also* unambiguously identifies that you are an enemy ship (based on that unique silhouette created by the towers), then they will be able to shoot at you sooner as well.

According to Flerfs, the more highly technical skills that have to account for the Earth's curvature and gravity like commercial airline pilots, sea navigators, HAM radio operators and their military equivalents : must all be in on the great conspiracy to hide the Flat Earth. They have absolutely no other explanation for why none of these skill sets are shared by fellow Flerfs.

@paulzuk1468

7 ай бұрын

103 thousand commercial ships registered in the world, every single one of them needs a navigator (at least some of the time) - the conspiracy's monthly payoff account must be epic.

This is nonsense. The navies of the world have wasted millions on navigation equipment to see over the supposed horizon when all they need was a flerf with a P900. Those idiots! I bet they feel stupid when they realise the truth.

I can confirm all of this, as it was explained in the BBC documentary series featuring HMS Troutbridge. ('Left hand down a bit ...')

Very enjoyable lesson on topics that are new to me. Also nice that you wrapped up with the obvious point about crow’s nests, radar towers, etc.

If you want to know about how much these things make a difference look up the biography of Admiral Willis Lee, Battleship Admiral, and see how an expert does it. The man was a walking gunnery computer.

@DreadX10

8 ай бұрын

Doubt that he was a computer when he himself said that the difference was the RADAR they had and the IJN didn't. Most gunnery 'calculations' were done with range-tables. So more 'looking it up in the table' than 'calculating'.

@Isolder74

8 ай бұрын

@@DreadX10 You do realize all radar does is give you better range data that you add to the information you have. Radar is not magic just because you have it doesn’t mean you get to win, see the battle of the 13th.

@DreadX10

8 ай бұрын

@@Isolder74 The Admiral said it himself..... Oh, and as some-one who worked as a teacher for RADAR- and Communications-technology at the KMTS (Royal Navy Technical School), I think I do know how RADAR works.

@victorfinberg8595

8 ай бұрын

@@DreadX10 err ... you surely know that every capital ship during that time had an on-board computer ... sorry ... calculator ?

@DreadX10

8 ай бұрын

@@victorfinberg8595 That calculator was working off of the range-tables....

I was an Electronics Technician in the USN in the late 70's to 80's. Specifically, a radar technician. My first ship was the USS Forrestal, and my first major equipment was the AN/SPS-43A long range air search radar. That radar had a range of about 300 miles, and I have, in fact, seen air targets displayed by it at a range of about 280-300 miles. Granted, those air targets may have been at a high altitude, but I've seen the radar returns. One thing I really liked about that radar was that it painted nice fat bananas for targets. Very easy to distinguish an actual target from clutter. The other, more modern, 3D air search we had, I could never tell what was a target and what was noise on its display. But, I wasn't an operator. My radar was an old one, originally a vacuum tube radar, but mine had a "solid state" field change for the drivers. Introduced in 61 and was based on an older design. And, mine was removed from the Forrestal during the 83 SLEP overhaul. Pretty sure they've long since been disposed of, even if resold to another navy. Depending on the frequency, radars can wrap around the curve of the Earth to a degree. And, they can also be influenced by weather conditions, also affecting range. On that same first ship, while we were in the Indian Ocean, I was once questioned as to why my radar didn't seem to have the range predicted by an Aerographer's Mate (aka, "weather guesser"). My first question, "Is anything flying?" Answer, "No." Next question, "Then what do you expect to see?" We were well away from any commercial air lanes or much of anything else. So, basically, if we weren't flying, there were no targets to be seen. No end to the rather dumb questions sometimes. I never had much to do with the submarine side of things. The information about using gravity gradients was interesting. Something I hadn't heard of.

@brolinofvandar

7 ай бұрын

@@fredthe47th No, actually, that particular radar had a range specified at about 300 nautical miles. To quote from the Wikipedia article on it, "The AN/SPS-43 was a long-range air-search United States Navy radar system introduced in March 1961 that had a range of 500+ km." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-43 FYI, 500 km = 310.686 miles. In addition, that was what I was taught in school for that radar. Plus, my seeing long range targets like that wasn't a one time thing. I routinely looked for long range targets, as a visual way to verify how my equipment was working. And, yes, atmospheric conditions most definitely can affect radar patterns. That's why I told the story about the weather guesser. Being told my radar must be at fault because the weather guy said so, when there weren't targets to see in the first place, was rather insulting. The 100 miles he mentioned in the video is more accurately a limit on *surface* search radars. The typical working range is less than that, but depending on weather conditions and the radar in question, it's possible. And, even under "normal" conditions, a surface search radar can see a bit farther than the optical horizon, because the RF of the radar signal refracts more than light, so it wraps a bit more. Air search radars are longer range than surface search and are typically closer to the 300 mile range. Largely because, being air search, they're looking up, not across the surface. They're looking for air targets at altitude at long range. And, they're usually higher powered.

@brolinofvandar

7 ай бұрын

@@fredthe47th Then clear it up. What was your point? Because it seems you were trying to say the only reason I would have seen targets at that range was because of weather. I'm saying the equipment was documented to get that range, and I can verify it with first hand experience on multiple occasions in multiple locations. That 300 mile range did NOT depend on a specific set of conditions such as that. Yes, weather affects the effective range at any given time, but that documented range didn't depend on that. On the other hand, there are radios that depend on bounces off atmospheric layers to get range. But I can assure you, that radar did not. It did, however, have some rather interesting technology that helped with the range. It was pulse compression expansion. Basically, it would take a 1 microsecond pulse, pass it through filters, expanding it to 200 microseconds, which would then be the modulation. Upon reception, it would be more or less reverse filtered, reducing the received pulse width to about 6 microseconds. If you looked at the modulation pulses, you could see a ripple across the top, as the filtering spread the frequencies. We were cautioned in class not to tune out that "thumbprint", because it had to be there on the return side for the compression side to work. A wider pulse width produces a higher *average* power output, which yields target returns from more distant targets. However, wide pulse widths suck for range resolution, the ability to distinguish one target from another adjacent target. Too wide, they sort of run together if you will. A handful of planes could look like one large target with that 200 ms width. Reducing that to 6 ms gives you a 1/2 mile resolution, which is pretty good at 300 miles. Not so much in close, but I did say it was a *long* range air search.

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

@@brolinofvandar The signal doesn't bend around the earth. That's ridiculous.

@brolinofvandar

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 I guess you've never heard of refraction? It's not much, but, yes, radio waves refract in the atmosphere and will somewhat follow the curve. Then you also have atmospheric effects that bounce a signal, extending range. Ham operators do that all the time.

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

@@brolinofvandar I've also heard it's easy to fool fools but impossible to show them they have been fooled. It works because the earth is flat and you don't need to make up BS to make it work in your mind.

Anyone from Australia want to use our telescopes to wave at each other. Since the earth is flat I should be able to find you 🕵️

3:43 wait, wait, wait...didn't flat earthers claimed that battle ships did not accounted for the rotation of the earth as well as snipers? 9:07 her face! pure dog static pleasure. also...great video!

Great video, shame about the ugly near the end though....

Flat earthers: *Exist* A battleship fire control manual from the 1940s: I'm ending their whole career.

Hey Dave, one thing you missed about the Hawkeyes is that they can relay what they "see" with their RADAR back to the carrier battle group. I was an ET (Electronics Tech) on the U.S.S. Truxtun, CGN-35 many years ago. Our ship, being a nuke, often served as RADAR picket, meaning we were out on the peripheral of the battle group (we didn't have to refuel like the conventionally-powered ships). The Hawkeyes and LAMPS helos were flying out past us (we could refuel the helos and could even carry one ourselves) and whatever they picked up they relayed to us, and in turn, we relayed it on so that it got to the carrier and/or other ships as necessary. This greatly extended the range that potential threats could be detected and dealt with.

@brolinofvandar

7 ай бұрын

Yep, much of the time I was with a carrier squadron, there was usually a "small boy" (any ship smaller than the carrier, aka, everybody else) stationed out at the perimeter of the carrier's radars, with the AWACS planes out at the corners of their range. And all that radar data tied back into a common system so command had the full picture of all radar returns. That's part of the reason I've generally believed, if anyone gets close to one of our carriers at sea, it's because we *let* them. I was an ET as well, on the USS Forrestal and later the USS Vreeland. I also taught ET school in the late 70's, as a "plowback" instructor. When were you in?

@ronaldlebeck9577

7 ай бұрын

​@@brolinofvandar I was in from '78-'84. Went to GLakes for boot, then over to main side for BE/E and ET-A. I was a E-4 when the riots took place and had to help enforce the lock-down. Some interesting memories -- getting pneumonia while I was BE/E, the blizzards, the riots, the incident with the AN/SPS-30 one Friday, the Iranian situation, and more. From there I went to AESD in San Diego, then on to FCTCP out on Point Loma, then to the Truxtun.

Please stop using logic. It's a conspiracy theory.

@moehoward01

8 ай бұрын

Annoying, isn't it?

@mrsnoo86

8 ай бұрын

everything is a conspiracy if you are dumb enough

@BoBandits

8 ай бұрын

Just a conspiracy. Conspiracy to think logically.

@Exit311

8 ай бұрын

That's just what they want you to think

@michaelsorensen7567

8 ай бұрын

I thought it was racist. My bad

How long will it be before Ramon Ortiz posts a wall of text full of straw men and demands that people "rebut" them? He also has a lot of quotes from theoretical physicists that he has taken out of context. Then he tells us that theoretical physics is evil, so don't talk about it. 🤦‍♂

Thanks, Dave. I knew about the other things but had never heard of subs navigating via gravity gradients.

The only place you'll end up when not designing for a globe ... is FLAT on your face. "You've gotta lie to flerf."

Superb video , really one of the best debunking efforts I've seen

BRAVO ZULU! I was a lookout on many watches when I was in the Navy. And I have brought up so much of what you said to flat-earthers. Such as the time I saw the very top of a mast over the horizon. And then watched as a helo took off, also over the horizon. Several minutes later I saw the superstructure, and then the bow of the ship as it was steaming towards us. Same with land masses. First you see the tops of the mountains, and over a period of time you see more and more of the land as you get closer, from the mountain top down to the shore line. Neither this or the above should be what happens on a flat earth.

@irrelevant_noob

7 ай бұрын

But, but, but... it's _perspective_ ! 🤪 /s

I just love how flat earthers think all the worlds governments can agree they need to hide that the Earth is flat, and make people think is a globe instead, BUT they can't agree on anything else.

SMOOTHEST AD READ EVER

Can't wait to see how Flatzoid misunderstands this

Marine VHF is also line of sight. Every sailor knows that the antenna goes at the top of the mast in order to maximize range.

This was all so fascinating and informative, regardless of the reason you shared it. I just appreciate all this information on radar applications.

Another interesting example that's not really necessary as you touched on radar horizons and spotter aircraft but this basic idea of higher up = longer visibility was the primary reason battleships of the early 20th century had towering superstructures, particularly the giant pagoda masts the IJN used. Despite presenting a larger target and decreasing stability by making the ship top heavy, without putting the rangefinders 30m+ above the waterline the rangefinding equipment would not be able to actually see enemy ships at the end of the guns range

@nickryan3417

8 ай бұрын

Which is all particularly relevant as many naval battles have been won or lost due to one side being able to hit the other first. That's a huge advantage, and being able to see the enemy, whether visually or using radar, allows such targetting. It's also one of the reasons why the German Big Bertha type guns (firing 42cm shells) weren't remotely effective all without spotters and extensive reports back after each firing which was required for a 9.3km range weapon, a little under twice the distance to the horizon at sea level.

Yey another amazing video to see!!

The most important thing about those kind of videos, is actually that people like Dave or i.e. SciManDan sometimes introduce lesser known KZreadrs like Craig to me and I can enjoy their contant as well

Very good explanation in relatively simple terms and great illustrations, especially the old war movies and photos.

The problem the windowlickers who "think" spouting flat erf catchphrases solves their inadequacy issues have is that they "think" saying "you put petrol in" is a valid explanation of how an internal combustion engine works.

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

And you are so worried about what other ppl believe in you have to go out of your way to make other ppl hate them like the nazis used to do. It's called jealousy.

@Katy_Jones

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 How does a sundial work?

@mikep9604

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 Navigational techniques disprove completely the existence of a flat earth. It's the end of the flat earth story.

@briansomething5987

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 People can believe whatever stupid stuff they want, as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to makes others equally as stupid

@sparehead8911

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271Why would anyone be jealous of a flat earthers monumental lack of intelligence?

If the earth was flat, War Thunder community should've been leaked this info already

I’m sure the relatives of those who died aboard HMS Sheffield would be so pleased to hear the Exocet missile that sunk this ship was visible at all times and that nothing was done to defend the ship.

always love seeing a new video by this guy - keep up the great work

So a little bit of nuance with radars is that particularly powerful ones *can* actually see beyond the horizon, not because the earth is flat, but because they bounce the signal off the upper atmosphere. Obviously this requires a whole lot of power so its limited to only the largest ground radars such as the soviet "duga" radar installation, which was designed to detect things such as ICBMs and polluted the radio signal of europe with a clicking sound for a decade and a bit, before high altitude radars became good enough to render it obsolete.

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

Well another deleted comment so I'll post it again. The atmosphere gets thinner the higher goes and there is nothing to bounce off of up there DAs.

@jon2922

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 I suppose that's true, with less atmosphere there's no way radio waves could bounce off. Fortunately the upper atmosphere contains a layer, the ionosphere, that's heavily ionised by extreme UV and x-ray radiation from the sun, creating a layer of atmosphere that's great at reflecting long wave radiation like radio waves. This information bought to you by a 5 second Google search you could have done for yourself to avoid sounding like an idiot.

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

@@jon2922 A 15 minute google search would make you ask if the signal bounce off then how do they supposedly use radar to track things in space and how do signals get back thru the atmosphere to earth from outer space if they bounce off it. Watch everyone for the answer this should be entertaining.

@jon2922

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 sure, have you ever seen light reflecting off a clear pane of glass? Look up total internal reflection. Shine a light at a pane of glass, straight on and it'll go right through, but as you reduce the angle eventually the surface will start acting like a mirror and will reflect most of the light instead, the same thing happens with radio waves, directed at a shallow enough angle they mostly reflect off the ionosphere instead of passing through, still it requires a significant amount of energy since it needs to do this twice and both times the reflection isn't perfect.

@h.dejong2531

7 ай бұрын

@@tommosher8271 Radio signals at different frequencies are affected by the atmosphere in different ways. Low frequency signals can bounce of the ionosphere, high frequency signals don't do this. So, for tracking objects in space, high frequencies are used. This is what a 15-minute Google search will tell you, and what every radio amateur can confirm from his own experiments.

I wish Dave would do more videos. Super informative.

@phildavenport4150

7 ай бұрын

Oh, he will. And it's quite refreshing to notice that his comments and educational efforts are not aimed at braindead flattards - rather, they are there for those of us who appreciate the illumination. Feel free to ignore the gratuitous insults and stupid comments injected by flattards well out of their depth.

Wow, brilliant video 👏 a lot of great points. Military equipment is fascinating.

The submarine using gravitational variance topography map is so clever Great video as always, with so many more ways that demonstrate why things are the way they are

but ... but ... but ... RADAR IS CGI !!! Hawkeyes are CGI ships are cgi !!! end satire *** another excellent presentation. you cover a lot of gROUND here. a couple things to add. 1) during WW2 (and thereabouts), capital ships each carried a couple scout planes to spot the fall of their shells, when firing beyond visual range i.e. over the horizon. 2) you only mention crow's nests at the very end of the video, but lookouts have always been on TOP of masts ... forever i.e. thousands of years. 3) lighthouses

@Katy_Jones

8 ай бұрын

Don't talk about the lighthouse!

The thing that never made sense to me about the flat Earth "theory" is that as far as I can see there would be no point in decieving everyone as to the planet's shape in the first place. Like seriously what is the (imagined) motivation for the conspiracy?

@AbuMaia01

7 ай бұрын

They believe the Bible describes the Earth as being flat, so they think that's enough reason to believe it, and anyone who says otherwise is trying to "turn people away from God."

Dave, FTFE and Rusty! Great video, thanks for sharing!

Lmao!! They think a rail gun is like a Lazer.

So... in addition to every pilot and every surveyor and every space program employee being "in on the conspiracy"... we also have to add every one of the millions of men and women who have served in the navies of the world for the past century? Its amazing all those veterans haven't spilled the beans over the decades! That... or the earth is a globe. Go figure.

@Level_No_Curve

8 ай бұрын

Every pilot and surveyor would not have to be in on it. You just have to believe the nonsense explanations they give. There is no earth curvature

@Level_No_Curve

8 ай бұрын

And the funny thing is there have been ec veteran fighter piliots who have come out saying they think the earth is "flat" but again i cont count other peoples claims as proof. Investigate it for yourself. Dont listen to idiots like Dave

@AbuMaia01

8 ай бұрын

And don't listen to idiots like @@Level_No_Curve

@Katy_Jones

8 ай бұрын

@@Level_No_Curve I bet the one wearing a fancy dress "Airline pilot" costume fooled you too.

@gbprime2353

8 ай бұрын

@@Level_No_Curve I did in fact investigate it for myself, as an engineering student at New Mexico State University. We measured the curvature of the water looking north from Elephant Butte lake at this point: 33°14'09.5"N 107°10'04.4"W Why don't YOU do something similar?

By the way, flerfs argue about gravity not existing and all the pressure nonsense, but what about direct measurements for gravitational time dilation in lab experiments, they are performed in a vacuum and pressure has nothing to do with it anyway?

@EBDavis111

7 ай бұрын

If you can ignore objects falling down then you can ignore time dilation experiments.

@AM-rd9pu

7 ай бұрын

That’s way above their comprehension level. Anything they don’t understand is deemed fake.

Excellent video Dave!

flat earthers also share flat brains

@ThoughtandMemory

8 ай бұрын

They share a communal brain cell.

Nice reference to the Naval Dazzle Patterns, while almost disappearing behind a Dog Hair Dazzle Pattern.

@DaveMcKeegan

8 ай бұрын

Thanks Garry, I think Rusty was trying to hide me 😁

Once again the flerf model fails to successfully explain, well anything, really.

@Kualinar

8 ай бұрын

Flerf model ? What flerf model ?

@wiredforstereo

8 ай бұрын

There is no model.

@HugoFilho.

8 ай бұрын

Flattards don't have a model. Fantasy is not model

That bit with the boat is one of the funniest bits by flerfs. FTFE who i believe is Kiwi, said he knew where that boat was and it’s was Between Australia and him. Pretty darn far from the “ice wall”

@stringtheorysucks

8 ай бұрын

FTFE is from Scotland. But yeah of course the flerfs get it completely wron.

@Mandelbrot_Set

8 ай бұрын

It's Scottish or it's crap!

@Mandelbrot_Set

8 ай бұрын

If It's Not Scottish, It's Crap!!!

@mattjackson9859

8 ай бұрын

​@stringtheorysucks He lives in Scotland, judging by his accent I'd say he's originally from Bristol.

@thephantomeagle2

8 ай бұрын

@@stringtheorysucks thanks I watch all the Flerf Busters from around the world and it's hard to keep them straight. I can't remember which flerf is from Kiwiland but there is one and he's the one that mentioned that they recognized the place instantly and knew it wasn't close to the supposed icewall

Another excellent video. Just one slight comment. Stealth aircraft are stealthy mainly because of their shape that deflects most of the signal away. The RAM paint helps with this.

I navigated ships in the U.S. Navy. Ships in the open ocean travel along curved paths to reach their destination. If the Earth were flat we could just travel in a straight line. As it is though ships make regular pre-determined course changes to follow the great circle route charted. Further we wouldn't use latitude and longitude coordinate system at all. All navigation on a flat Earth could be accomplished by using a Cartesian coordinate system. So all charts on board that use latitude and longitude, that being all of them, prove the globe.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

7 ай бұрын

Flerfs don't mistake latitude and longitude for being squares? (Since I doubt the would understand Cartesian coordinates.)

@Isolder74

7 ай бұрын

@@user-gl5dq2dg1j They wouldn’t know what a polar coordinate system was if they where shown it step by step.

@user-gl5dq2dg1j

7 ай бұрын

@@Isolder74 Sadly true.

How do you confuse a flat earther? Put two shovels in a room and tell them to take their pick.

@A15degreeperhourdrift

7 ай бұрын

I miss Frank Carson.

@tjjones621

7 ай бұрын

Finally, a joke we haven't heard a million times! Thanks! :)

@7THHEAVEN2083

7 ай бұрын

How do you trigger a baller? Remind them that their globe evidence is model references and pseudoscience. Then wait for them to give a fallacy as "evidence".

@cuross01

7 ай бұрын

​@7THHEAVEN2083 well, the sphere shaped earth seems to have maps that represent the sphere shaped earth. You got even one map that best represents a flat earth yet?

@TruthHurts2160

7 ай бұрын

​@@cuross01The globe coordinates are modeled on a hypothetical 3D globe. Making models and assuming a curve doesn't prove a globe.

Would inviting Mark Sargent or whomever is most influential in the FE movement, on a Space launch ,( what’s it cost 1 million per?) do any good or would he even do it. I’d pay 20 bucks to watch that.

@AM-rd9pu

8 ай бұрын

You’d need someone to accompany them to hold them accountable. The flerf grifters have a lot to lose by admitting that the earth is round. If a flerf grifter was offered a trip to space I’d imagine they’d do one of a few things. My first guess is that they’d decline and then lie and say the offer was retracted. If they actually accepted, they’d probably lie about any and everything. They’d make claims about the “behind the scenes”, they’d alter footage to make the earth look flat, they’d claim the windows made the earth look curved. The right way to do something like that would be to have an accompanying passenger or astronaut talking with them the entire time and basically live debunk them and make the footage such that it can’t be doctored by the flerf without being obvious.

@Isolder74

7 ай бұрын

First he must likely wouldn’t go as he knows what he will see or he will claim it was all a simulation and a trick.

Great video as always! As an addition to the sonar theme, youtube channel Smarter Every Day has a great video onboard a US nuclear submarine that explains in depth (pum not intended) how a sonar works and how they use active and passive sonar for navigation and target acquisition. Well... They talk about what isn't classified in depth.

Drachinifel has a great video about naval artillery: "Range-finding and Fire Control - Plotting Your Demise" kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZaM26Ozd9eviJs.html In addition to the movement of the target and your halfway straight course, the ship does a lot of 2nd-level movements. It pitches, it rolls, and It "weaves" (or however it is called), it wriggles around the exact straight course. So movements about all three axes. The guns are too slow to compensate these movements (like on today's tanks). Each compensation for each gun is different, depending on the location, esp. the pitching. And it takes a moment until the powder fully ignites, and the shell needs some time to travel through the barrel, so that the muzzle already has a different location and barrel orientation dompared to the time of ignition. It seeems NOT trivial...

Another 2 things in this video that debunk flat earthers are… 1) If the Earth is flat then why do ships have masts? Masts exist to raise the horizon over which they can see or communicate. For example, a high crows nest could see a bit further over the curvature. If the Earth was flat then you wouldn’t need masts or radio towers. 2) Who mans those Navy warships that patrol the edge of the Earth? There’s 100,000s of retired Sailors and yet not 1 of them backs up the flat earther claim. When Sailors retire they tell their friends and families about their exploits. Why would we know more about nuclear missiles and reactors than the “Edge of the Earth” as people disclose secrets all the time. Also you’ll need a lot of warships to guard such a large perimeter without big gaps between the warships, where are they all?

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

Crows nest are to get above the haze on the surface of the ocean which you can't see as far thru on the deck. DA. There is no edge to patrol and why would you if there was. And who would a retired sailor tell about the flat earth. Would the news show up and do a story and break it to the world. If this is why you think the earth is a ball you mighty lame.

@cuross01

7 ай бұрын

​@@tommosher8271well, I'm certain the earth is sphere shaped because all projections present sphere shaped data. But yes, ships and masts are pretty good evidence for the sphere shape of the earth. Not the best, but pretty good

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

@@cuross01 So you think it's a sphere. Personally I could care less what you think it is. The question is why do you all worry do much what other ppl think it is that you feel the need to stop pl from talking about. And ships and mast prove to me it's flat because that's how things disappear from your vision that are above the peripheral plane of your vision.

@cuross01

7 ай бұрын

@tommosher8271 think? No, earth is sphere shaped because all projections present sphere shaped data. If earth was flat, there would only be one single map with uniform grid squares where all directions, distances, areas, and sizes would be accurately displayed. Such a map I have never seen. And the reason why I like to talk to flerfs about their opinion is because things like maps interest me on a professional level and if a flerf would just present that one map that best represents their flat earth, I would be quite happy to analyze it and see if it's true. But since no flerf can present such, my desire to talk to flerfs has turned into making them look foolish for not being able to present something so simple as a single map

@tommosher8271

7 ай бұрын

@@cuross01 Well Mitch you find a map of the world that is used to navigate first because there is no map of the world including the globe that is used to navigate and if you think there is than get it out. See I don't like talking to you toads because you don't even know that do you. You don't know that there is no map of the world that has been given to us to see the true size and scope of the world because the ppl that control this world do not want you to know that anymore than they want you to know there are ppl who control the world that you don't even know exist. Your need to use your sad little word to belittle ppl you don't like says everything about you anyone needs to know. Guess what that makes you lil boy in the eyes of good ppl who are reading this seeking the truth. Now go find your map that is used to navigate the world

Great video, from this video we could also ask the flat earthers if a ship is beyond the horizon then why we could see the smoke coming out of the ship

Great video and discussion