I’m one of those people who only acknowledges six Black Sabbath albums. I feel that mentality applies to Hemingway as well. Great video.

@Tom-tw1wd

2 жыл бұрын

You don't even like Heaven & Hell?

Superb video. I am a Hemingway aficionado and I am in total agreement with almost everything you say. The posthumous books should be burnt. Start by reading "Big Two-Hearted River", then the vignettes which are in the Finca Vigia edition of his stories or in the 1924 edition of "in our time" (the title all in minuscule), and then either "A Farewell to Arms" or "A Moveable Feast", followed by some stories, ( Men Without Women" or "The Nick Adams Stories"), and then you are ready for Hemingway at his best "The Sun Also Rises". Nothing is missed by skipping "For Whom the Bell Tolls". I have read and re-read "The Old Man and the Sea" countless times. It is a wonderful book, an amazing book, a miracle of a book, but it should not be the first thing by Hemingway that you read and it should never be taught in schools. Both of us may be wrong about the Venice book: we may be disparaging what we do not understand. That would be the view of Mark Cirino, author of "Reading Hemingway's Across the River and into the Trees" who tries to explain to us the depth and complexity of this important novel.

@BookishTexan

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. We disagree a bit on the particulars regarding skipping For Whom the Bell Tolls and the brilliance of The Old Man and the Sea, but we definitely agree in principle. I just reread To Have and Have Not btw and should have a video about it up next week.

A Farewell To Arms is the only Hemingway novel I own and planning to reading it for years. I have heard good things about his short stories and will read some I am sure. I am definitely interested in A Moveable Feast for the exparate part. Thanks for the video

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I you will like _A Farewell to Arms_ there is some great Hemingway writing in that book if nothing else.

As always, this was very helpful. I read The Old Man and the Sea in high school and nothing of Hemingway’s since. Thanks Brian. 💞

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I have a feeling _The Old Man and the Sea_ has that effect on lots of readers

I’ve read For Whom the Bell Tolls. and The Old Man and The Sea. Greatly preferred Old Man.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Good to know. But then you do have this science and the ocean thing . . . .

Oh dear, I just started on Hemingway.... with The Old Man and the Sea!! I read the exact version copy paperback that you show, as well!! I love that edition, so lovely from the 70s. I have a reading vlog about it coming in a few days. I did enjoy it! But also, it was hard to get through. I think I will keep my eye out for A Moveable Feast, that sounds like I will really like it. Great series, as always!!

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

I should a have put out this video sooner.😀 _The Old Man and the Sea_ is just so narrowly focused. Its a great allegory and it is pretty classic Hemingway writing, but it just seems like its weighed down with meaning. _A Moveable Feast_ is light and gossipy. Good Hemingway writing, but I wouldn't trust what he says about other authors. He was not above taking revenge on the dead.

Brian, I had no idea that Hemingway's work worsens as he gets older. That's a very helpful tip. Thank you. Who knew Hemingway had such "meh" writing! Thanks for suggesting to start with Farewell to Arms. Again very helpful.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Shelly. Yeah, depression, alcohol and trying to live up to his self created image took their toll on his health and writing.

@Shellyish

3 жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan I'll bet. I'm sure it really influenced his later other works.

I love Hemingway's writing, but I hadn't thought about the fact that I haven't read his "bad books." Great discussion, as usual!

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeremy. I think each of Hemingway's bad books is bad in its own way, but each also has some redeeming qualities. I think _Across the River and Into The Trees_ is his worst non-posthumous novels and even it has some descriptions of Italy that are amazing.

Ah yes! How did not I now see this when this video came out? Thanks.

I read the Sun Also Rises in high school and remember enjoying it, though have not had the urge to pick up anymore Hemingway since then. I do love short stories though, so it’s good to know that he wrote some! I’ll have to give those a try some day.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

The short stories are a good way to find out if you want to read more Hemingway or not. There are several very good ones, but if you don't like them you havent invested much time.

Great video! And at the perfect time for me because I’ve been reading about Hemingway through the Max Perkins biography. One question, what’s your opinion about For whom the bells tolls? I was thinking about reading this one but if I’m not mistaken you haven’t mentioned it.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I like _For Whom the Bell Tolls_ and I think it is probably Hemingway's best novel over all. The dialogue reads kind of goofy, but there is a sincerity and depth that is missing from most of his novels. Glad to hear you are still enjoying the Perkins bio.

When I read him, I’m transported into the story and I live in it… oh Hemingway( stars in my eyes😊)

@BookishTexan

Ай бұрын

Nice to meet another Hemingway fan.

Excellent video, Brian, and perfect characterizations of so many of Hemingway’s works. Your description of A Farewell to Arms as the novel where he is in control of his style is not something I had considered before, partly because I enjoy The Sun Also Rises more, but it’s accurate. The short stories are the place to go though! I still wonder if the couple in The Garden of Eden are a sequel to his story “The Sea Change”. Hemingway’s depression and final decade were incredibly sad, but thanks for sharing this. Best, Jack

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Welp now I have to go back and reread "Sea Change." I prefer _The Sun Also Rises_ also. Thanks Jack

Really helpful Brian, although I think I've done the opposite. I've had the exact copy of short stories for many years but failed to even open it until Robert's video and I didn't really enjoy the story he selected. I seem to have some sort of unexplainable avoidance of Hemingway even though I have read The old Man And The Sea and I thought it was very effective. Maybe because he looks alarming like my ex- husband but that's not Hemingway's fault. I think I'll pull out that collection of short stories and give it another go. Thanks for filming.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Penny. That's a pretty good reason for avoiding Hemingway. 😀 Try a couple of stories and see what you think. The one Robert picked wasnt my favorite, but I do think there are some good ones.

You may have persuaded me to try Hemingway, although years ago I did read Death in an Afternoon but don’t remember any of it. Recently read his short story The Waiting Room which after watching Robert at Batrer Hoardes do his summary realised what you referred to as the iceberg. Recently watched a six one hour documentary series on the BBC which I thoroughly enjoyed. A Moveable Feast seems a good place to start. Thank you for an informative video. Kind regards.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

The Ken Burns Hemingway Documentary was very good. I thought it found a good balance in its portrayal of his life. Thank you for your comment Michael.

Really appreciate your 'take' on Hemingway. I'm introducing a college class to his work, and we only have room for 2-3 stories. We started with In Our Time, and ...Elephants is next. Then either ...Kilimanjaro or Big Two-Hearted River if time allows. -- It's a survey of modern American lit, so I'm struggling to fit as much as possible into the reading list without missing important voices & works -- but it's IMPOSSIBLE!!!

@BookishTexan

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. I'm impressed and happy that you have time for that much Hemingway. I don't think you can go wrong with Kilimanjaro or Big Two-Hearted River, but the latter is my favorite. Shameless Plug: I have a video about "Big Two-Hearted River" in by Ernest Hemingway Playlist.

I gasped when you said "The Old Man and the Sea". 😨

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Haha! Good to know I can still shock a few people.

I do agree his short stories are a great place to start especially the Nick Adam's stories.

Excellent video Brian. My experience of Hemingway matches your advice. I read many of his novels and was left wondering, 'What's so great about Hemingway?' I then read The Snows of Kilimanjaro and I thought it was a masterpiece.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you John. Hemingway has some short stories that are true masterpieces. I think with the stories he could focus on polishing them to his perfect writing style.

@EastLancsJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan Yes, that makes sense. I don't like the hyper-masculine, bull-fighting, big game hunting, hard-drinking, mule-punching Hemingway, but the sensitivity and vulnerability expressed in some of his shorter stories I do appreciate.

I love this series of where not to start videos as they are a kind of overview of an author by a fan. Unfortunately it comes too late for some - I started with Old Man, then Sun Also Rises and finally For Whom, and then nothing for 30 years! But I have that Collected Stories edition you showed so I have a plan - these and then Farewell to Arms . . . one day!

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Ian. Glad you kept going. It may just be a personal prejudice I have against Old Man. I love _For Whom the Bell Tolls_ btw. I think it is Hemingway's most complete novel, but I dont recommend it as a start because of its length and its kind of goofy dialogue.

@ianp9086

3 жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan Yes FWTBT certainly has its idiosyncrasies - I think I understand what he was trying to do with all of the thee and thou (reflecting the formal you in Spanish I believe) - but it kept pulling me out of the narrative. Good story though! By the way, I gather from Noah's session last week that you want a where to start with Vargas Llosa? I think he is my most read author - more than 20 books.

This was excellent. I never had Hemingway in school, but when, as a young man, I determined I wanted to make myself literate, Hemingway (along with Thoreau) was where I started. I read the complete Nick Adams stories, about which I was ambivalent, and _A Moveable Feast_, which I liked and which set the scene for an understanding of the literary milieu. (I believe that an expanded edition has come out and wonder if it is worth a revisit.) I didn't like Hemingway very much, as a person, I guess you could say, but he continues to come up in conversation and I've long regretted not having tried a novel. I will do one of the two you suggested if ever I do any. (Say, was "The Short Happy Life..." his story? We read that in a class and I've never liked it.) Probably what turned me away from Hemingway decisively was the first literary criticism I read or remember reading, Robert Scholes' _Semiotics_ in which he has an essay "Decoding Papa" deconstructing one of the short stories. It set up my prejudice; but years later I would be open to rethinking that. Only recently I heard that his ex-wife was a writer, possibly even a better one than he, who had been grossly overshadowed by him. I searched for a cheap edition of something by her to no avail, and it's telling that even to this date I can't recollect her name.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Like many writers I suspect, Hemingway the person was far worse than the books he wrote. One of his wives was a writer-- mostly nonfiction, reportorial. I've never read her works but I have heard she was very good. Literary theorists have turned many people off of literature unfortunately . Thanks for the great comment.

@marytumulty4257

3 жыл бұрын

@David Novak Reads Poetry: Martha Gelhorn, his 3rd wife, was a foreign correspondent. She was featured in Ken Burns’ documentary, Hemingway, which was shown on PBS. I don’t remember the name of his 4th wife, she was also a writer. The documentary was very comprehensive and engaging even if you haven’t read much by him.

@davidnovakreadspoetry

3 жыл бұрын

@@marytumulty4257 I'm sure it was Martha Gellhorn. Everything by her looks interesting.

He's not an author I've ever really got into. I did enjoy his short stories though, and always meant to get back to him. Glad I watched this though as I would have started with The Old Man And The Sea. I'll park that for the time being and have a look for A Farewell To Arms. Thanks for the recs Brian :-)

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Graham. If you do get a chance to read _A Farewell to Arms_ I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Please don’t apologize for reading male authors. You read them when young because almost all the books on any fiction bookshelf were by males back then. Most of the greats in ANY field have been male until the last 50 years because it was not culturally possible for most women to devote the bulk of their lives to anything but marriage and family until the middle of the 20th century. Greatness in any field is not the work of amateurs and hobbyists. Hemingway had the luxury of sitting all day in Paris cafes to write Sun Also Rises, while Hadley was back at their barely heated apt. with their 1st child. He even had to quit his newspaper job before succeeding in fiction. FWIW, I’m not sexist. Jane Eyre is the best novel I’ve ever read. Charlotte Bronte is smarter about human character than any male writer I know. Great writing is great writing and needs no apologies. BTW, The key to the suicidal depression of Hemingway AND that of his extended family is hereditary hemochromatosis.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't mean it so much as an apology as a recognition that most of my reading has been devoted to male authors and that I see the need to diversify now. Your sentiments about why there have perhaps been few great women authors until the last 50 years is in line with Virginia Woolf's _A Room of One's Own_. Despite that I think some of the most lasting works of literature from the Victorian Era were written by women -- Bronte's, Eliot, Gaskell. Wharton and Woolf a generation afterwards were also great. My problem was that in my youth I ignored them because I thought their books were for women. I am happy to have grown out of that thinking. Thanks for the info on Hemingway and Depression.

Big fan of Hemingway, read Old Man and The Sea in high school, The Sun Also Rises and Complete Short Stories in the hospital and For Whom The Bell Tolls was great.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

I still am a fan of some of his books and stories. When he was at his best he could be the best.

Well said on ‘A Farewell To Arms’ being his best book to read if you were only going to read one.

@BookishTexan

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to know someone agrees with me. Thanks for watching and commenting.

What do you think is the best Hemingway novel?

@BookishTexan

Жыл бұрын

I think _For Whom the Bell Tolls_ is his best, but _A Farewell to Arms_ is the best written.

I was looking at my shelves for any unread Hemingway books. To my horror, I found 'Across the River and into the Trees', 'Green Hills of Africa' and 'True as First Light'. I then breathed a sigh of relief when I noticed 'The Snows of Kilimanjaro'.

@BookishTexan

2 жыл бұрын

_The Green Hills of Africa_ is not bad if you don't mind the hunting, but I think _The Snows of Kilimanjaro_ is the place to start out of those.

Thank you, this was very helpful.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you sir.

I'm another one that was taught The Old Man and the Sea at school. Luckily my enthusiastic English teacher carried me through successfully. For Whom the Bell Tolls is my favourite Hemingway but as you know I am not really a fan.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear you had a good teacher for Old Man. I think For Whom the Bell Tolls is Hemingway's most complete and deepest book. His sincere love of Spain really comes through.

I couldn't agree more with you on bullfighting. It is part of my culture. I was born in the Azores, the group of islands in the North Atlantic, which belong to Portugal. Portuguese bullfighting does not include killing the bull in the arena, but the whole sport and idea is disgusting and barbarous. I find the whole thing very disturbing and nauseating. Sorry for my rant!

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

No worries about your rant. I agree with all of it.

Where to start: A movable feast. A farewell to arms. his short stories. The sun also rises. (Maybe not start with it, but still one of his best books.)

@BookishTexan

Жыл бұрын

Those are literally the three places I suggested to start in this video in order.😁😁Glad you agree!.

@willow_fn

Жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan I tried reading the old man and the sea first when I was 15 but got very bored and never completed it. Now after 10 years I decided to give Hemingway another chance so I searched KZread and found this video very interesting. I tried to summarize what you said for anyone like me searching where to start. Sorry for my English and thanks again.

@BookishTexan

Жыл бұрын

@@willow_fn Ah Now I understand.Thank you for watching and commenting

This series is so fantastic.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Amy.

Heh. I started with Death in the Afternoon and loved it. I read it 3 times in secondary school. I think I looked at it like trained artists look at visual art: there is a difference between content and subject matter. While the subject matter is bull fighting, the content is bravery, skill, and doing your job as well as you can given your limitations.

@BookishTexan

Жыл бұрын

That is a fair assessment of the books themes. Hemingway admired both expertise and bravery. I made the mistake of watching a bullfight on KZread and that really affected my reading. Thanks for your comment.

I started reading Hemingway in 2020 while stuck at home and needed books to read. like so many the only Hemingway I've read was The Old Man and The Sea in High School and didn't like it. Well, years later, my first Hemingway was In Our Time because it was a very slim book and looked like a safe choice. It was really good, then that lead to Snows of Kilimanjaro then i read my number 1 book of 2020-For Whom The Bell Tolls, A Farewell to Arms, Across the River and into the Trees (Which I like but I know a lot of people consider it to be a bad book) The Nick Adams Stories, Green Hills of Africa, To Have and Have Not (his worst book while alive in my opinion) The Sun Also Rises, A Moveable Feast, The Old Man and the Sea again (it was much better being 30 and having endured a lot of trauma of 2020) Men Without Women (which I should have realized was just a different compilation of Hemingway Short Stories, Islands in the Stream (Very good in my opinion) and True at First Light (You are correct, it's a mess). With his short story collections, I listened to the 3 volume collection that's read by Stacy Keach, which made Hemingway come to life like no other. So I have only 7 things to go before I can say I've read all of Hemingway.

@BookishTexan

2 жыл бұрын

The thing that saves _Across the River and into the Trees_ for me are the descriptions of Italy. And as a Hemingway fan there are almost always at least one redeeming factor in his work. Even if its just the strangeness of _The Garden of Eden_. Sounds like you have read more Hemingway than me. Where would you advise that a new to Hemingway reader not start?

@Tadicuslegion78

2 жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan don’t start with any of his nonfiction or posthumous books. I would advise a newbie to try the Nick Adams Stories/Short Stories because they’re short and you can see Hemingway in his prime and Hemingway’s autobiographical fiction seeping through

The only good book by Hemingway imo is A Farewell to Arms. That books still hurts, man. I like some of his short stories, too.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

I'd make a case for _The Sun Also Rises_ and _For Whom the Bell Tolls_ but I wont argue with your conclusions about _A Farewell to Arms_

@StriketheSunMD

3 жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan oh, to be fair to For Whom The Bell Tolls I haven’t read it yet but I want to. The Sun Also Rises is okay for me, same with The Old Man and the Sea. But they didn’t move me like A Farewell to Arms.

I agree with all of this!

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! That's good to know.

Good one! I'm going to reread _The Old Man and the Sea,_ as well as "The Snows of Killiminjaro" stories sometime before year's end. And, _A Movable Feast_ would be a "great place to start," and I do own it ... it's unread in a "box in Phoenix" 😉

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

_A Moveable Feast_ is fun, but don't take Hemingway to seriously. By the time he wrote it he was an old liar who wasnt above taking revenge on the dead.

In my impressionable 20’s I attended a bullfight in Mexico.I was told “it was the thing to do,” There was nothing majestic about it. A great deal of ceremony went into the spectacle, which left me nauseated and dejected.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

I watched a bullfight on KZread after finishing _Death in the Afternoon_ thinking there has to be something. There was only dirt, a tortured animal, a crowd cheering the torture of the animal buy guys in fancy suits, and a dead bleeding bull at the end. I wish still wish I hadnt watched it. Sorry you got talked into going to one in person.

I would disagree that Hemingway’s achievements can be categorized as a steady decline in quality. I think Old Man and the Sea is a masterpiece, an author at the peak of their ability. Conversely, the Sun Also Rises is Hemingway still finding his footing, a book with too much filler, too burdened with conversations with no dialogue tags and too much drinking and eating.

@BookishTexan

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment. As you indicated we don’t agree about the value of those Hemingway works. Old Man always feels labored and obvious to me and Sun full of life in a way that old man isn’t.

Thanks for this, Brian. I've never actually read a Hemingway novel, although I've read a couple of short stories. Really love "Hills Like White Elephants" and have taught it several times. Now I know that one day I should read A Farewell to Arms. 🙂

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

I think the stories are Hemingway at his best, but there is some great Hemingway writing in _A Farewell to Arms_

I disagree....loved ISLANDS IN THE STRRAM and GARDEN OF EDEN. Even Updike praised the latter.

@BookishTexan

2 жыл бұрын

Great! I think, with the exception of the Bimini section of Islands in the Stream, they are not the places to start reading Hemingway. Thanks for your comment.

This is the Hemingway apologist video. That is fine. I have some authors I like defend too but the great ones need no defense.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

Haha! This isnt the Hemingway apology video. I have a playlist with several of those.😁

@jobuckley2999

3 жыл бұрын

@@BookishTexan Excellent answer. I wasn't trying to be mean I was just thinking no one questions Tolstoy or Austin or Dostoevsky as being a great writer.

@BookishTexan

3 жыл бұрын

@@jobuckley2999 I didnt think you were trying to be mean. I thought your comment was great.