Im not playing the faction with floppy, feather ladden hats and extravagant mustaches to not yell BANG when I roll my shooting attack.

@MrGunnar177

5 ай бұрын

This is the way

In Nuln you can't call yourself a state missile trooper unless you are covered in gunpowder soot. Crossbows are for the provisional backwaters, get them out of my sight.

@morcar8991

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, in Nuln crossbows are more toys for the kids that would get themselfes a proper weapon when they have grown up

Also the sniper platoon sounds cool a regimental unit of 10 crossbows (because range) and Sargent with long rifle and two detachments of 5 crossbows and Sargent with long rifle.

@grlmgor

Ай бұрын

Detachments cant have command models.

I'd think this might be a good rule of thumb: Crossbows for if you're running few/no war machines and lots of cav/offensive melee infantry. Handguns for if you are running a ton of warmachines/your only melee infantry is defensive oriented/light skirmish cav

Awesome deep dive! Love that you’re covering old world!

@MordianGlory

5 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoy it!

Well, as usual a very interesting video from you. With regards to missile troops in WHTOW, I have to say, shooting in general is rather weak. Due to a number of modifiers ( probably necessary to to tame the shooting of elves a bit ) your empire missile troops will most often hit on 6's and even higher. Not very good prospects. No matter which type of missile unit you take. But there are some other caveats to be taken into account and I speak of personal game experience just one day old : 1. 5-Man missile detachments are an invitation for your enemy to try to wipe them out. It's not the points, but if the detachment flees or is wiped out, all your nearby other troops will have to make a panic test...which can, under bad circumstances, lead to loosing whole regiment for either a number of turns or completely due to psychology. 2. The chances of 5 missile men to do anything meaningful are practically 0. So it's imho a waste of points. 3. X-Bows vs. handgunners : you have explained the "dilemma" very well and I think, in the end a lot has to do with your options for deployment. Trouble is, even at 1999 pts ( probably the new standard ) space is precious for empire armies unless you go for the 8 chicken , 4-5 cannons, a Stank and a few chars on chickens or horses. If so, you probably manage to get just one regiment of 20 - 30 vets on the table with not much other infantery left. So infact, you will need some units which could take over other tasks and give you more options then just stand an shoot. So looking at our roster, we find the humble archer being quite interesting. he comes typically in units of 10, have 24" volley fire ( so all can shoot ) , can move and shoot and they can even be upgraded to scout and fire & flee, which all in all gives way more tactical options than any of the other missile troops, who can do practically nothing anymore if the move due to the negative modifiers. So as sad as it is, my missile infantery will be put to rest on the shelfs except for all the archers which will be dedusted and will breathe new exciting life...

@anotherdadjoke

Ай бұрын

Caveat 1 is incorrect, detachments don't cause panic from fleeing or destruction.

I used to run 20 handguners and 20 crossbows in 6th edition (I'm currently stripping their dodgy paint scheme and getting them ready for old world) They would annihilate everything, I was mostly fighting chaos warriors or dwarfs so for me it was like shooting fish in a barrel when mixed with multiple cannon and a hellblaster. Such wonderful memories, my friends still hate my empire army to this day 😊

Absolutely love these videos. I'm an old Empire general from 7th Edition so very very rusty and this has totally changed my view on the army I'm building. Super keen to see your thoughts on the melee state troops now and even the Greatswords. Fantastic work.

Big fan of these deep dives!

Thx for the video

I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. Smells like victory.

Good summary. I suspect the other reason for the preponderance of handgunners is convenience - for those playing since 6th edition they were the standard missile troop in the plastic kits. Interesting call on the mix. I’d suggest as well that handgunners make for a better detachment for the reasons you’ve set out - their effectiveness at short range is perfect for supporting fire.

My personal fav unit always used to be 25 block of spearmen, screen of 7-8 hand gunners in front, halberd detachment of 9 (small 3x3 block) as a detachment behind and the the side of the spearmen Have a few of them with knights on the flanks, a cannon or two and maybe a group of flagellants or great swords to secure the weaker flank

A bunch of huge spearmen blocks supported by ranged troops as an anvil for the big empire knights punch will most likely be the meta. As long as you trade up you'll be winning with empire.

Oah and don’t forget the Hovis build - Best of Both. Detachment of 5 crossbows. Sargent with repeater handgun.

How did i miss this

Cool content

I wonder if Handgunners as detachments of 5-10 to protect blocks of state troops and provide close range defensive fire with the detachment special rule and then separate larger regiments of crossbows to be a primary shooting line would be ideal?

@jamesespinosa690

5 ай бұрын

Way way back in the day, my best friends Empire army did just this. And I always found it to be very powerful! 'Spoiling' a charge is very strong!! Another top tip is hero hammer! One of the things I loved about my friends Empire army was all the cheap and cheerful hero's!!! The Warrior Priests were especially excellent!

Regiment crossbows, detachment handgunners. Long rifles on the sgt. And no the detachments don't get the command upgrades, they operate as a section of the parent unit. Spears regiment with 2, 5 man handguns. Crossbow regiment with 2, 5 man halbadiers is the ideal loadouts...

I have not played the game but i was thinking of trying to bring a sniper detachment with a witch hunter vs Demons and 2 side detachment of ranged units all equiped with snipers = 4 magick snipers

Not often I disagree with one of your unit reviews. I think the mistake you are making here is to review the unit as though it's a 40K unit, but shooting plays a very different role in Fantasy. Generally, it's a lot weaker, and so you wouldn't expect a missile duel between two opposing missile units to amount to very much - if the units are small a panic test might be forced, at best. And also, with one exception, you wouldn't normally reckon on using missile units to seriously degrade the main melee units of your enemy. Where I think missile units fit in is as a support unit, rather like fast cavalry and other chaff units, in that their greatest utility is in clearing out your opponents small and mobile support units so that (a) they don't charge you in the flank, and ,(b) they aren't in the way of your own support units that want to get flank charges in. For this reason, I think the extra range of the crossbow is crucial (and also note, it increases the short range as well, so that the -1 to hit penalty for shooting at long range kicks in less often). The extra range means that your crossbows can cover more of the board, and have a wider choice of targets. Handguns, however, would be my choice as detachments, because when you are doing a stand and shoot, the extra point of AP on non-armourbane wounds, will give you some crucial extra wounds that will count towards the subsequent combat resolution. So, crossbows for standalone units. Handguns as detachments.

Do you think there’s a world where you take 5 man detachments (of probably hand gunners but whatever..) and have the Sargent with duelling pistols? I can’t shake the idea that stand and shoot adds to combat res and duelling pistols always get to do it no matter the enemy’s charging distance.

Empire small arms fire is a joke except against MSUs or light cavalry. Archers are great chaff, though.

I think it’s a mistake that they are making it more like line hammer. You’re absolutely right. Forcing players to play them in a single rank takes up too much space

I’ll say with dwarf experience , brace of pistols are better than you think they will be. You’ll miss shots down range but make up for it close , and the enemy will get close, and on the charge you’ll likely get them kills in. Also they give you extra CC attacks. This may prove better as dwarves but I think you still get the bang for buck on the inevitable charge you’re going to receive.

Makes me wanna get my old world together!🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑

yessssss

It HOCK -LAND.. it's confusing...when I wanna go to holy head and I wind up in Holly head or if I want Worcester sauce and some guy from Boston and I get into a fight on the A train in NYC because Wooster MASS,. Detachments for the win!

You can take a 2+ look out sir save now against Hochland Long Rifles now though so they’re way less good than previous editions of the game.

Nice wizard you have there... it would be sad if anything bad was to happen to it..

Cheapest option, Xbows are better with BS3 standard ranged infantry with longer range. Keep the cannon's for long range Anto monster/Heavy infantry with good AP.

Sorry mate, I'm in mind to see less hills and more LOS-blocking forests/ruins/village buildings heheheh. My Night Goblins love their surprise attacks.

Hock Land! It's tacos..not taecos ,it's puma ,not fuckn pewwma

Cant see my self fielding any. Archers with vanguard and skirmish for the same price...yes please

Crossbows all the way and it's not even close imho Crossbow's longer range makes ponderous (-2 to hit when moving) less of an issue and your half range bracket is substantially longer at 15" so you'll often be hitting on 5's instead of 6's when standing and shooting for a regimental unit nearby The handguns natural ap is nice but the fact that they both will have identical impact on a critical wound makes this less valuable (especially against tough highly armored targets) also armor value in general is down as well And to boot they are 1 point cheaper as well, so a unit of 10 crossbows can effectively get a sergeant with a repeater handgun for the same cost as 10 raw handgunners (which ends up being the same firepower as 9 crossbowmen and 3 handgunners)

I think the long rifle should have ignores the penalties for shooting long range

Gotta disagree when it comes to hand guns vs xbows. Mostly due to the handgunners are nit existing in a vacuum. In general other then dwarfs no one can match imperial range especially that of the warmachines. And of my opponent is targeting small units of hand guns with their ranged instead of demigryphs or greatswords that's a win.

"Good attention from the game designers" he says, knowing full well that GW shat this out in a week to sell spare fantasy models they had laying around the factory

When is GW gonna restock their range?? Can't even buy models to play

I put bayonets on my Handgunners so I can’t not use them 😬

I see GW is ripping off 9th age with that -2 to hit after moving. Can't blame them though, it's a lot better than move or fire they used to have. Also - Handguns have great matchups and abysmal matchups. Crossbows have good matchups and mediocre matchups. If you have to pay more for handguns, then handgunners will never see the light of day. Also, you are pronouncing Hochland wrong - it's pronounced HOHLAND, there is no CH sound there.

The Killer B'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Obligatory Comment

why do you have a member whos named National Socialism...