This does remind me that now it's in paper commander clash should really do variant formats like planechase or supervillain brawl.

I love poison! Bring it to the table! Make players build and think critically - spot removal becomes key, dig for interaction, or let the 1/1 infect do you in!

I'm a fan of venser here! I did a video on him a few months ago that includes various budget price options. Our videos seem very similar in deck construction and card/combo theory haha. He's been very fun 😀

I'm not a big poison fan, but I do enjoy your deck techs. Keep them coming!

We have lost Tomer, all that Crim yapping has gotten to him. RIP a cool brewer, behold another Salt Lord

I play Vishgraz, the Doomhive as a commander for a blink deck and use the poison as a win condition in the deck so I have a way of winning something blink is not known for having

@d.a.d.-ohgosh

4 ай бұрын

I've also been playing some Vishgraz but just with a splash of Blink. It's been pretty fun frfr

@codeofzero1

4 ай бұрын

@@d.a.d.-ohgoshthat is cool for me it started with some blink then I fully fell into the blink lol

@BFG93

4 ай бұрын

Awww snap! I have too ran this but have a phyrexian only twist. With reanimation making up lack of flicker in theme

@Kokonutzlz

4 ай бұрын

I'm also trying to add blink to my Vishgraz deck. I'm using Vishgraz as my Abzan Goodstuff pile, where I can just swap cards in and out and do a lot of different decks. I have done Poison, Proliferate (adding Planeswalkers), Phyrexians only (stuff like Vanquisher's Banner), artifact creature matters, big creature matters, blink, aristocrats

@codeofzero1

4 ай бұрын

@@Kokonutzlz if you want idea look for Vallon on moxfield and for vishgraz, the boomblink and I’m Happy for ideas back if you got them

Like these deck techs, would love to see more

good job! great brew, it's refreshing to see a good deck not relying on the same staples over and over

One of my favorites commanders, probably the deck that I play the most, my version is a little bit more focused on artifacts, but the core of the deck is roughly the same

This is a great resource for my non-infect atraxa idea. (it wants to redistribute indestructible counters onto everything.) Cannot wait to see this in action!

@Byborne

4 ай бұрын

Ouuuuuf!! That is such a fun idea! I have a Pir and Toothy deck which sole purpose is to move different fun counters around onto different creatures. Moving counters seems like a quite underutilized mechanic! Got a pretty nice new card with Diamond City, cool tech

I couldn’t even tell this was an EDH deck tech, and previously scrolled past it on my feed.

I've been tuning a Brimaz, Blight of Oreskos list for a bit in a very similar vein. The pivot is that you can eventually just overrun people with chunky hatched incubators, but the main goal is to proliferate your opponents away through initial toxic or infect love taps.

Your love for poison is intoxicating

More deck techs!! 🎉

Sophia, Dogged Detective next please! I can’t decide on the ratio of dogs vs token vs +1/+1 counters synergy

My archenemy deck is Ur-Dragon, I'm either going to be the problem or I'm going to get blown out. There is rarely an in between. lol I dig the deck, it looks sweet!

I made a Venser deck and my group didn’t like poison, so I made a wither -1/-1 counter proliferation version. Wins with same combo, but instead of proliferating poison, we add 1 more card like Bastion of Remembrance and aristocrat drain the table for lethal

I've been playing venser since he came out. If you go beyond budget, yawgmoth is easily the best card in the deck. City of shadows is also an amazing land in the deck. I usually treat it like a tap land since you need to add a counter to it, but it easy starts adding 4+ each time you use it. Gulping scrap trap also looks underwhelming, but when you consider you're running vat of rebirth, geth's summons and vat emergence, it actually does a lot of work when paired with sac outlets like yawgmoth and chittering skitterling. I also use kindred Discovery and species specialist naming phyrexian for more card draw. If you notice, all your toxic attackers are phyrexian and the hollow one is phyrexian. Kindred Discovery will start making all the proliferate spells and abilities draw each time. I've also been playing around with glistening oil recently. Sometimes you just don't have much to do with the hollow one so giving it flying and lifelink has benefits. Might as well give it infect too and sac it later when you can and put the oil back on it later. I also took out dross scorpion pretty fast in mine. Outside the infinite combo, it doesn't really do a whole lot on its own besides maybe untapping a rock or staff of completion if lucky. Started to feel like a dead draw to me. Venser is one of my favorites, and I'm always trying to tweak it. Killing a whole table with poison is always satisfying but also realize that killing a whole table with poison is actually not easy.

😲 I made a Venser deck since December 2023, with lots of poison, toxic, proliferate and those synergies.

Is it intentional that you mix control with poison and universe beyond to make sure you get targetet for some reason? Edit: and combos

This deck reminds me of my mate, who has an Araumi poison deck that pure Artisan - nothing but commons and uncommons. If it gets an inch, it takes a mile. One poison counter on everyone, he encores out a Gulping Scraptrap. That's 4 proliferates for everyone.

Looks like i’m building my 3rd poison deck

I wanted to build something similar so I built Xavier Sal, infested captain. The commander actually infinite using venser.

On poison defense:people looks the wrong way of the functionality of poison In 60 card formats is 10 counters and you win the game, in Comander you require 30 counters to win, the triple of the usual and the fact that you're playing as the archenemy So yeah, the regular rules for poison in commander seems fair

@colboy1fish

4 ай бұрын

Not only that, usually you have 2 players contributing to the damage (unless there is combo present) With poison counters, it is just you doing the "damage".

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

Ай бұрын

Spoken like a true Chad

I'm building a budget venser toxic deck. At my lgs there are two 1v1 leagues. One where all cards, except the commander, are ¢99 and under. I want to join the league and this looks like a fair one and cheap to build.

I'm trying to Adapt infect into my Rona, disciple of Gix Cedh Deck Perhaps i will include Venser for fun

is there a decklist for the 100$?

I have Windgrace MLD deck and this is a declaration of archenemyness. They try to kill me first, I try to destroy all lands first (and creatures and artifacts) and the race is on. I just love blowing up lands and I think it makes people durdle way, way less when they everything is about do blow up against deck that can ramp out really fast. I had Azami players attacking me with wizards, how cool is that?

As a big Venser fan, I'm disappointed that the Phyrexian version of him doesn't feel like Venser at all.

Please play Dralnu so I can blasphemous act :)

More of these please! 50-50 mix of "salt inducing" vs normal

Aside from the one or two combos, and *maybe* swinging for a poison counter on turn 3, it doesn't feel like Venser adds anything to the deck. You'd probably be better off with almost any other commander. Maybe it's nice to be able to pump out a 3/3 blocker regularly? But I'm just not seeing it.

@tomerabramovici32

3 ай бұрын

Aside from instant-win combos and adding poison, Venser makes repeatable blockers, is a key part of making corrupted conviction / village rites / nasty end / vat rebirth good, and also gets great evasion with call of the ring / birthday escape.

I embraced my inner toxicity and made an agent Frank horrigan poison counter deck and it is disgusting.

One of the problems is the lack of interaction. That being said, poison isn't a popular strategy and even if there was interaction people wouldn't run it just to take up a slot for they once in a blue moon they play against poison decks

I love Poison, loved when Naf’s Asp was the first attempt at a venom mechanic. I don’t do it in Commander because my meta doesn’t really like it and a lot of decks aren’t designed to combat the Poison effects. On the other hand, my daughter’s favourite deck is a Poison deck and she tends to win with it. A lot.

Everyone being ok with every card played without a rule 0 is why I like "cEDH". Not even real cEDH, just an environment where everyone's expectaions are that deck's have a definite plan to win with efficiently and everyone is playing the best/rudest cards. A zero salt game is a rarity in casual, especially at a random table at an LGS.

Poison is almost like flying like sometimes I'm like oh that's a flyer deck yeah I don't have any way dealing with that. I mean a deck of only flyers not just a couple flyers. I also don't like the house rules some places are like no it's 15 no it's 10 it's just not consistent

Poison, in my experience, has often taken out one player and then just done nothing else except eventually get taken out second. So for me it is a bit of a feel bad that one player sits out 80% of the game (often literally 80% of the game) without having had the opportunity to do anything. That's why I've chosen not to play it, I don't mind playing against it though. I typically have the early blockers needed to not get chosen initially. I don't think I've ever seen poison win outside a few KZread games.... xD

@tomerabramovici32

4 ай бұрын

This deck plans on taking everyone out at the same time using cards that give each opponent 1 poison counter and then proliferating from there. There are no Tainted Strike or any 1-shot infect creatures. Though sometimes an opponent will be taken out earlier if you hit them with a toxic 1 creature an extra time, but usually everyone dies together.

@DrukenReaps

4 ай бұрын

@@tomerabramovici32 just saying if I had a nickle for every time a plan went wrong xD But yes, if it performs as intended, and it should perform that way. But then my combo deck should also be doing that too xD

@RG-wv3gt

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, sometimes people frame the objection to poison as it being too OP and their response is that it isn't (which i agree with). But it's more that people find it unfun not OP

@brettjohnson4321

4 ай бұрын

This is definitely not the case in my experience playing poison. 90% of the time I'm the player sitting out of the game bc players are so scared of poison they will allow others to do everything and wipe my board of anything. I have tried playing defensive and not attacking, still get targeted. I've won maybe 2 games out of 50 and still people think I'm more of a threat than a combo player. It's weird, people don't care about life even if they can't gain life in anyway. But care about 1 poison counter bc it's pretty much 10% of their life total.

@RG-wv3gt

4 ай бұрын

@brettjohnson4321 Yeah, it's rough to essentially be hit for 30 by the Blighted agent turn 3. Interesting meta difference tho, in mine, the two that don't get poisoned see it as essentially a 1v1 they can wait for without expending .any resources while the poison player and their target duke it out

So i guess great minds do think a like. 😂

Oh my Gawd Tomer, your so toxic! lol

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

Ай бұрын

you’re

Mechanics aren't salty; people are.

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

Ай бұрын

Lots of babies crying in the comment section about poison being bad. I am sure most of them have never played with/against infect in their edh games. They listen to KZreadrs cry about infect and then mimic them.

I think the "poison isnt fair" framing isnt totally accurate, it makes it sound like people think poison is OP, but it's more people think its unfun to have someone swing in for essentially 30 and then focus in on you. Poison being "too strong" is kinda a red herring imo

If everybody was like Crim, the games would be insufferable.

grrrrreat deck - FINALLY, SOMEONE, MADE a SOMETHING NOT AWFUL! with the NEW VENSER 'POGGYYYYY-YUCK' TAKE THE CHAIR off FROM ME##

Kaust deck

What makes me dislike toxic is how easy it is to get them, how little is required to lose to it and that it's hard to remove them. Alternative ways to win like commander damage require 21 damage. That's double of the 10 needed for toxic. Additionally with commander damage you need to actually land direct hits. While with toxic there are spells were you can just assign poison counters directly without having to do anything else such as Infectious Inquiry. Lastly once you got the poison counters it is hard to remove them. I think that outside of Leeches and Karn there arent ways of removing them. Even the Melira, the Living Cure at best just reduces the amount of poison counters you can get to 1 and can't remove them.

@tomerabramovici32

4 ай бұрын

I understand the frustration that Poison counters are difficult to interact with, but the format is full of "unfair" things and I think most of the popular archetypes are doing even more unfair things, it's just different ways of being unfair.

@dracomight

4 ай бұрын

@@tomerabramovici32 I would find it less frustrating to deal with if I could actually do something against it. Whether you're going against Voltrons, Stax, infinite combo etc there's at least something you can do to something on the board. You could remove their voltron, artifacts, enchantments or combo pieces etc. They are obstacles to overcome. But there's no interaction with poison counters. The best you can do is fully aggro on that player in order to remove them from the game entirely. But focusing on someone like that every time simply because they run toxic feels bad. If there was something like Thrull Parasite but that could let me remove poison counters I would find it much more fun to deal with.

For me personally its more of a mechanical argument i don't nt personally find it fun when a mechanic is essentially a combo printed on a card. Poison to me feels allot like other low power but unfun mechanics such as morph, its just a way of forcing a particular archetype that only really plays well with cards with the same keywords albeit at least poison works with proliferate.

You dont like poison then do something about it.

I dont mind poison, but proliferate with poison shouldnt be used in casual. It makes the game too fast, and less enjoyable. Just my opinion though.

@tomerabramovici32

4 ай бұрын

This deck really isn't too fast. It should win around turns 8-12 and generally it only puts about 1-2 poison counters per turn. The absolute fastest is a turn 4 if you play t1 Sol Ring into Throne, then t2 Scorpion, then t3 Venser + Prologue, but it's incredibly unlikely, I'm not doing the math but I'd expect less than 5% of games.

It’s 20 poison counters house rules or I’ll find another game to play. It makes no sense not to scale poison damage.

poison is bad for mtg

@augustobs24

Ай бұрын

Lmao

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

Ай бұрын

Is baby going to cry?

Poison is unfair because there is no way to remove poison counters and they can be given without being attacked and increased through proliferation. If there was a way to remove them aside from 1 or 2 artifacts poison would be more fare. But you display the bias when you said you were fine when you planned to play with it. If you know it's coming you can build around dealing with it but for those of us that go to an LGS and play with randoms poison is a huge NPE and frankly is about as "skillful" as a thoracle win which is another reason people dislike it. It's a cheap and easy way to win that doesn't really require the same type or level of skill other wincons require and it's only countered when people specifically know to tech against it. "Oh just add more interaction" is not a valid response because you can't just interact with poison like other counters and again with proliferate it's literally impossible to stop getting more poison. If that is how it is going to be then 20 poison is a reasonable requirement to win.

I'm one of those people just not fond of the mechanic. Giving people a handicap in games/sports comes with the idea that you have a huge advantage over that person. Toxic/infect cards aren't weak enough to need a handicap. So the whole mechanic fails to seem necessary. Dunno just my 2 cents.

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

Ай бұрын

Is baby going to cry?

I don't like this. I agree that being honest about the power of your deck makes things not salty. A good lesson, but I still hate poison being 10 in commander. It's just intuitive. In a normal constructed game you need to deal 10 poison or 20 life damage to win 1 to 2 ratio, or more interestingly 1 damage and 9 proliferate. Still a 1 to 2 ratio. In a normal commander game you need to deal 120 damage to win the game, but you only need to deal 30 poison damage a 1 to 4 ratio. OR 3 damage and 9 proliferate. A 1 TO 10 RATIO! Yeah not a fan. It's unintuitive, sneaks up on you, and most importantly doesn't feel right to me from a rules point of view. I get the counter arguments, I just don't agree with them. I know poison is not overpowered. I know 1 attack with blight steel colossus is supposed to kill someone, that's a flavor win I can live without.

@tomerabramovici32

4 ай бұрын

The thing about doubling life totals is that you have multiple opponents contributing to lifeloss. The vast majority of decks try to win the game by reducing life totals to 0. If tables featured all Poison decks then I agree that 10 is too little, but far more likely it's just 1 Poison deck at a table, so it's up to that 1 person to put 10 poison counters on each opponent all by themselves. Imagine your deck had to deal 40 damage to each opponent by yourself before you win, your opponents' damage to each other doesn't count. That's why Poison seems unfair at a glance but really it makes sense in the context of actual gameplay.

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

Ай бұрын

Aw, is the little baby going to cry? You lost to infect in a 60 card format and now want to force everyone to play your way?

Can you do this but for Karumonix