I wish this video would have came out a few months ago. I built an all-tube preamp and when I used it, there would always be this white/RF kind of noise going on that was very noticeable. I was doing every trick in the book to improve things within my preamp and nothing seemed to make a legitimate difference. Finally I turned off my iMac (that is powered by the same Furman Elite 15 PFI that powers the other equipment) and the noise completely disappeared. I plugged the iMac into another outlet (instead of using the Furman) and there's still a little bit of noise but nowhere near the amount I had before. The crazy thing was too, when I would play records, the noise would be there even though the iMac wasn't in the signal path at all. I'm just thrilled it wasn't my workmanship that was causing the noise!

If you cannot hear any strange noises with volume turned up without playing music then you do not have a problem. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

As a computer guy that build PCs for gaming, I do agree. But like all other things in life, you get what you pay for. New PSUs with platinum ratings from well known brands are very good isolated. The new standard (ATX 3.0) seperate the voltage much better.

@QuangNguyen-md8ky

Жыл бұрын

can you please name a few brands/models?

@bf0189

Жыл бұрын

​@@QuangNguyen-md8ky seasonic has always been trusty. You can pay slightly more and get the higher titanium tier even but tbh even the very common gold tier is fine in terms of shielding in my experience. Platinum and titanium are mostly for servers and very important critical systems where a lot of redundancy is needed. OEMs will often cheap out on the power supply even on a well built pre made. So unless you know for sure it's worth checking. Laptop power supplies are a whole other beast though.

@juicydroopnutz9221

Ай бұрын

i have a late 2023 release of the evga supernova plat 850 full mod and i have AWFUL noise cause my house is old. It stops when i use bt. I dont own so im gonna get some ferrite chokes to put on some power cables. I even get it through my ups. Which is weird

@someusername121

3 күн бұрын

No. I have an AX1600i plugged into 240V, widely considered the best power supply on the market, and it doesn't fix stuff like the GPU throwing a bunch of switching noise into the USB ports.

Paul has all the Audiophile’s going crazy putting their ears against their USB cables to see if they can hear any electricity running through their USB cables. 😀😀😀

Personally, I use an affordable streamer, the Silent Angel Munich M1T, which has a quiet design (parts well isolated) + a AudioQuest Jitterbug on the USB output. While I am sure it is not as good as PS Audio's DirectStream I perceive it to be virtually noise free.

@gaulishrealist

10 ай бұрын

Not even the average Swiss can afford this so-called affordable streamer.

I never had any issues until I bought a USB audio interface. Firewire and Thunderbolts and PCI cards never gave me any noise issues and they all connected directly to the PC.

I think that the notion of computer and usb noise is overrated. I have over a 1,000 CDs ripped to my hard drive in FLAC. When I play them back from this "Noisy" computer over USB, it sounds virtually the same as the original CD. I am actually able to play the original CD and the FLAC file at the same time so I can judge the sound instantaneous.

@Mikexception

Жыл бұрын

I suspect it is not common case and depends mostly on local level of electromagnetic noise

@stevenvandenbosch5528

Жыл бұрын

I had a Dell Laptop where the USB system caused noise on the Line-in, it dropped the noise when I moved the mouse. I didn't use that line-in anymore and since replaced the laptop: the noise was about -50dB. But that has little to do with USB cables

Great video..and informative. I have a DAC ..that I power it via an IFI Power supply..very quiet 🤫 Take care .🍕

Ifi purifier 3 good little isolator reclocks as well

What about adding more capacity to the ground? Isn't this how all audio voodoo devices work?

Paul i listen to your videos daily but I think you went a little off track with the separating power from signal in usb cables The question was would using separate cables (shielded) help cut the noise. You take on using a USB isolator is spot on but I think you might see a noticeable drop in noise by isolating the signal twisted pair from the power pair in a properly constructed cable. Also couldn't you isolate the computer noise from the DAC by using an opto isolator at the DAC to detect the power presence on the DAC end to get rid of a lot of that noise? It would not be as efferctive but should get rid of some of that hash. Last fall i replaced my old 2011 MacMini with a new M1 MacMini, i had a little trouble putting my music files and documents (small 256GB on base model) hard disk with external 1TB usb disk but apple sorted that out after a couple of 2 hour phone consults. To me it seems the M1 mac is quieter than the older one so it looks like the USB power might be cleaner.

Compatibility with Firmware and software. This video got me thinking about those issues. I wonder if my Apple USB DVD player will work on my truck stereo via USB input for playing CD’s..🤔 I know the Apple USB player has Apple Firmware on it for the Mac. It won’t play on my Chromebook. I’ll dig out a CD try it on the stereo. I have not listened to CD in years. 😀

I do not know if it is noise, or something else, but... When I tested my printer's USB cable and my hub's USB cable (the cables that were bundled with the printer and the hub)... When I tested (or used) the above cables with my DAC, the sound quality was in the toilet -- a kind of muffled sound quality. Both of those cables worked for printing and general computer use, with no issues. I have used them for years, and still use them for my printer and hub. But while connected to my DAC, they killed the sound quality. I use an Audioquest USB cable with my DAC, and it sounds great. I did the same thing at the store where I purchased my stereo. I used one of their computer USB cables on one of their DACs, and had the same awful results. They use Audioquest cables on all of their gear. So there is something else going on with USB cables, as it pertains to sound quality. Note that none of the USB cables that I used were longer than 3'. So I was well within the 3 meter (some say 5 meter) limit of USB's useful range.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

I see where this idea comes from. Analog audio cables with high capacitance driven from a high impedance source ( a classic tube preamp) will have HF rolloff. That will sound "muddy" So the same cable capacitance will easily roll off a high speed HF signal like USB. So again we have muddy sound. WRONG! Yes, the USB signal is not a clean square wave anymore. But as long as the DAC can accurately determine a one or a zero based on voltage level, the data is 100% correct. Any errors are not subtle and generally muted in most DACS. As for timing and jitter. USB is packet based and buffered. That removes any appreciable jitter.

@arize84

Жыл бұрын

​@@Douglas_BlakeMy personal experience is that USB cables definitely make a significant difference in sound quality. I have done the same test using the free USB cable that comes with a printer and had similar results. In my case, the cheap cable resulted in a less natural and more fatiguing sound.

@NoEgg4u

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake "It's not the cables ... and it's not the DAC ... There is no analog signal on a USB cable, it's digital only and it's noise filtered by differential signalling. Most likely you're just fooling yourself." I did the testing. The store's personnel did the testing. According to you, we all imagined hearing sound quality change between awful and fantastic. That there is "no analog signal" is irrelevant. Digital signals have issues, too. But rather then conduct the test yourself, you post moronic comments. What else have you never tested that you can enlighten us on?

@NoEgg4u

Жыл бұрын

@@arize84 Douglas Blake lives in the world of "cables do not matter". She refuses to conduct listening tests. She will not say why. I suspect that she does not have access to the equipment, to conduct a proper listening test. So without ever conducting a listening test, she asserts that we are imagining things. Think about that: The people that actually conduct proper listening tests are imagining things, and Douglas Blake, who never does a listening test, chimes in as knowing better. The above is her position. In case you are not aware, this is par for the course with her. She routinely does this whenever cables are discussed.

@WhiskeyTangoFoxtraught

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake please let Electrical Engineers talk topics like this. You seem to have an elementary understanding of understanding electronic communication and challenges associated with it.

If the signal is digital, there is no introduction of noise.

Not only the USB port noise is the issue, but also the supplying power is also the problem. None of the USB ports are created equal, even from the same brand. Most of them are "cheap made", or very much "budget concerned" for a consumer product. Therefore, the USB ports on any consumer products are not designed for good quality of supplying decent grades of audiophile requirements. That's the reason why you are hearing different quality of sound from different USB ports, even on the same computers.

looking at those isolators on Amazon seems like most create another type of disagreeable noise unless you're willing to pay more ... way more.

@davidfromamerica1871

Жыл бұрын

Price 💰💰💰= Audiophile.

Titanis from Holo Audio is the best budget option for reducing USB noise, it makes my gaming PC indistiguishable from UltraRendu. Unfortunately, it is discontinued due to the discontinuation of the chips it needs.

Cardas - Clear High-Speed USB Cable Has 2 separate shielded cables. One for the data and the second for the power.

The "iiwi reviews" UT channel just reviewed a (somewhat simple) solution to USB isolation (+ he mentions there a previous review of a similar, though more featured product)

Would you be so kind as to tell me what to do to hear this USB noise? For five minutes now I've been putting my ear to the High-end loudspeaker of my High-end system and i do not hear anything - absolutely nothing...

@davidfromamerica1871

Жыл бұрын

😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀 Paul would recommend a $20,000 Audiophile microphone to use…😎

@Paulmcgowanpsaudio

Жыл бұрын

The "noise" isn't in the audible range. It is in the ultrasonic range: megahertz. I apologize for not being clear. Because computers are high speed number crunchers, the noise they produce is way outside the range of human hearing. That, of course, doesn't mean it doesn't ultimately impact sound quality. It does. Only it doesn't do it in the traditional way you might think of hearing increased noise.

If we use a DAC other noises can be avoided to a great extent

Surely if the power line in the usb cable isn't carrying any current (i.e. your device draws ~0mA) then the noise source isn't there?

My problem isnt a constent hum or noise. It sounds clean but like ever 4 mins or so a weird effect kicks in almost like a high pass filter and only last for around 5 seconds. Would a USB isolator help this?

should never buy a USB cable that is not made to USB specifications. The DAC should handle any noise, not the cable.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

Well most of the boutique audiophile USB cables ARE NOT certified. Remember the certification process can easily cost over $10,000. Same for Ethernet and HDMI cables. But just buy a Wall Mart USB cable that is certified and you have all you need. I look at some of these audiophile USB cable ads and can see the vendor has no clue of classic transmission line theory. USB is in fact critical cable wise, but again properly designed cables are available quite cheap.

What about using USB between a streemer and a dac.? Would there be any noise there?

@ryanamendt8363

Жыл бұрын

Nope. Anything digital is not influenced by noise nor distortion.

Well… I used a usb cable to connect to my high tech Wi-Fi system.. then stream to my modded Oppo cd player.. I wonder should I get an upscale usb cable ?

I think around 40 years ago someone came up with TOSLINK optical cables which are dirt cheap and eliminate any electrical couplings between devices. You can also use a simple cheap optocoupler for galvanic isolation. This isn't rocket science and it's not hard to do!

I can't get rid of the noise on my USB speakers. Optical isolation almost works but there is still some buzz. I just gave up and ordered some normal 2 prong AC speakers.

I’m confused. What does this noise sound like? I’ve never heard any objectionable USB noise- even from my computers over the years.

@StuffJason437

Жыл бұрын

It sounds like faint robotic & buzzying noise like wasp in your ears! with static. The solution is external USB DAC.

@bikdav

Жыл бұрын

@@StuffJason437 Oh.OK. I don’t recall hearing any of that.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

If your system sounds clean and un-distorted, then you don't have a noise problem. Your done! Enjoy it. Most of these USB and Ethernet "fixer" products are a solution looking for a non-existent problem to solve. This audiophile digital noise FUD is certainly possible and indeed present in some systems configurations. But you need not assume all digital audio systems have these problems because most of them don't. Note that there are commercial USB and Ethernet isolation boxes sold. This is a typical go to argument by the proponents of this audiophile noise FUD. But these devices are for industrial applications such as an antenna farm or electric steel furnace where RFI is a serious problem. These conditions do not exist in a residential setting. WiFi and Bluetooth are well managed and engineered, by FCC and CE law, not to cause interference in residential environments.

@user-od9iz9cv1w

Жыл бұрын

In it's least noticeable form, noise in digital gives that slightly hard edge that made CD's objectionable. It is the digital sheen. When you get rid of all the noise the digital sounds natural and analogue. Still detailed but natural and relaxing not tiring.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

@@user-od9iz9cv1w Show me the mechanics behind this "digital sheen". How does noise entering the DAC cause this? It is quite simple to show the distortion you claim with test equipment. Yet no audiophile USB "fixer" product ever does. Why? "Well they don't have the test equipment necessary to do that - too expensive!" OK then, how are they designing a noise reducer without any test equipment to see it's effectiveness? Classic audiophile snake oil.

I believe my Sea Sonic Power Supplies are not as bad

I use AudioQuest Jitterbugs in each of my computer audio systems ans they seem to work well.

It is very expensive to put an opto isolation or some other solution on board. Sure.

Some computers are worse than others. Apple does a good job in keeping the noise low and I’ve yet to hear noise from any of my Apple products. Ages ago I was a “Windows person” and had a few cases of running into noise leaking into the analog audio side of my system.

@ThinkingBetter

Жыл бұрын

@@Douglas_Blake Agree, this topic belongs to 15+ years ago and still makes snake oil business. Paul is selling a 1.5 meter US$850 USB cable solving a non-existing problem.

@jeffwalther

Жыл бұрын

My main computer is a 2013 Macbook Pro and I have no issues with noise on the USB line to a DAC. Nor do I have a problem with the DAC in the Macbook. It's DAC sounds about as good as my external DAC streamer.

@ThinkingBetter

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffwalther I have Macbooks, Mac Minis and an iMac. They have zero issues. Nowadays the Apple M1 and M2 SOC chips are superior to Intel and AMD chips on power efficiency and low noise design.

@editorjuno

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake -- My ancient HP tower has a Realtek chip(set?) for audio, which actually has decent performance aside from a high noise floor. Problem solved with a USB-driven/powered external DAC (actually, an audio interface that combines DAC, ADC, mic preamp, and headphone amp in one small box). Frankly, I think audible noise traceable to USB issues is largely mythical nowadays and is essentially just another audiophile bugaboo in all but a very few oddball cases.

@ThinkingBetter

Жыл бұрын

@@Douglas_Blake Agree, this is about making snake oil business out of issues not existing today. It’s same as this idiotic idea that you need a “resampler” to fix your data flow incl. jitter for digital music lol.

I did watch a review/test on USB cables a while back, there was a difference in how they measured. So it would be interesting to see how some isolators works as well. The DAC that I'm using at the moment has separate power input, so I'm guessing that they have tried to isolate the signal and power, so maybe it wouldn't do much.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

Do you have a link? Exactly what were the measurements performed and how did the measurements differ?

@PSA78

Жыл бұрын

@@andydelle4509 I don't recall who did it, it was a video on KZread. They checked the waveform to see differences between sample and sent, not sure how it translates but some did show a difference.

I have a very long USB3.0 cable with some sort of bit-corrector in the end. Ever since I use that (plus indeed a cable in the end that does not transmit power), the sound is MUCH cleaner! Oh and I did buy an audiophile-level USB3.0 card.

thats fucking cool!

If you have a device (DAC) with signal sensing… 🎉

Noise from a USB cable? Isn't this a myth? You can crank up the volume on headphones on an amp connected to usb, even something as cheap as the ifi zen dac, and...you will hear nothing. And if something played through the headphone at that moment, you would be deaf, so even if you hear something is it audible at normal listening levels?

WiFi to SPDIF

Avoid usb,use coax.

A Palestinian mother appeals to you. I want to buy Eid clothes for my children. They need you to bring happiness and smiles to my children's faces... in my digital photo.

Just stop being lazy and play a CD ,Vinyl or Even good quality tape source like we used to do and in the long run one gets off there lazy asses and gets up and down to change music , he'll put the remotes away and just get active with your playback system .