Someone asked me about the Elden Beast's strange forest, so it seemed like a decent video idea. Even if there's not much in the way of discrete answers, it's interesting to note the somewhat common visuals appearing across multiple games now.

@LawfulBased

Ай бұрын

I always imagined these golden trunks in the Eldenbeast space as symbolic representations of other Erdtree's, standing in other locations, maybe even entirely different worlds, with each of them maybe hosting an actual divine representative like Marika, who have all been _"collected"_ like a hobby by the 'Greater Will'.

@KhorzIskariot

Ай бұрын

Ghost trunks (like the one that we burn), each representing one of the previous Elden Lords (as we know there were more, Placidusax way back when, and Godfrey the last), implying there might have been many lost histories and cycles.. maybe? :) Great vid as always, congrats on 0.7M subs, keep up the good work!

@zoned7609

Ай бұрын

I like this theory, it fits with the style we are used to.

@Darth1Marik

Ай бұрын

I just thought it was a realm that represents the Erdtrees control over Radagon and the Elden Beast so naturally it's figure is present many times over.

@blizzardgaming7070

Ай бұрын

Something of note about this forrest is that a stone replica of it can be seen from the upper ancestral woods near where the ancestral infant head is found. I haven't seen anyone talk about it even though it seems important.

I think miyazaki just really really likes the idea of a ton of pillars/trees in the distance, similarly to how he enjoys poison swamps

@rubbercrutch1

Ай бұрын

So what about… bear with me here… *poison swamp pillars*

@Huarrnarg

Ай бұрын

Final boss arena for the dlc is a death poison swamp with pillars and 3 Rune bears.

@ReelBigFan

Ай бұрын

​@@rubbercrutch1*Farron Keep enters the chat*

@ohdubwest7533

Ай бұрын

LoL, yeah. Something are just a matter of taste and nothing more. Still, it’s kinda fun to think about.

@masongonzalez847

Ай бұрын

Can you blame him tho, it looks cool as heck

It's interesting how all of the other trunks are perfected in comparison to the actual erdtree. The one we have is broken, crooked, and dropping leaves. That makes me think this isn't representing other player's worlds , but the influence of the Greater Will

@ETBrooD

Ай бұрын

Like prototypes? Being installed into existing worlds for an eventual takeover?

@orochinagis

Ай бұрын

Well Mizayazaki always play how Decay is inevitable but people reguses to let it happen, new trees , hunters or dragons are growing but wont be enough and humanity have to let it go and face an uncertain future

@LieutenantAlaki

Ай бұрын

​@@ETBrooD Perhaps they are other worlds that the Greater Will's influence still thrives on, whereas in the Lands Between something has gone horribly wrong.

@DeadSparkMan

Ай бұрын

@@orochinagis Yep. It fits with many item descriptions talking about the Erdtree and its seeds. At first it was believed the Erdtree was perfect and eternal, and that its seeds couldn't exist. And when the Elden Ring shattered, the Golden Seeds we collect in game were scattered across the Lands Between to grow into Minor Erdtrees.

@datonkallandor8687

Ай бұрын

I interpret the Greater Will as a colonizer. The Erdtrees are their main bases, signal hubs - the two-fingers are antennas that pick up their signals. The background in the Elden Beast fight shows their other successful colonies - all the other erdtrees that have successfully taken over where they were planted.

beksinski my beloved

@EfrainMan

Ай бұрын

His stuff is so beautiful and haunting, he's my goat. RIP

@consensus688

Ай бұрын

thankfully he didn't burn all his work

@TwighlightLugia

Ай бұрын

My bestie who's also into Souls games is actually really into Beksinski's work, so this is gonna be a delight to show him.

@MalIow

Ай бұрын

Beksinski is the scret influence behind so much art direction in gaming today. From path of exile and diablo to darksouls and remnant and many more even in film we see his influence. It's clear mitazaki or another old hand in the art direction at FROM is a long time fan just from the design of the cathedral and world connected to the old monk boss fight.

@MrSushh

Ай бұрын

Phenomenal

Tarnished, arise ye, zullie has come forth with a new blessing. Hear thee words of wisdom.

@deplorible753

Ай бұрын

Just 6 more Zullie videos till the dlc!!!! 🗣🗣

@funnyname9383

Ай бұрын

grant us eyes...

@apoxalypsewhen

Ай бұрын

guys i have a theory zullie is mexican

@atlander4204

13 күн бұрын

But I can’t hear any words, just soothing music…

I always interpreted it as the meteor that brought the Elden Beast/Elden Ring being just one of many across the universe, with the Greater Will trying to use Erdtrees to influence many different planets.

@RadonX9

Ай бұрын

if that's the case then that would sorta place the Greater Will (as antagonists) into a similar position as The Combine from Half-Life 2, which (if you know the lore of the HL universe) would stand to make the Greater Will even more terrifying than they already are.

@Livaelyn

Ай бұрын

This has always been my interpretation as well. It's the interpretation I'm going to stick with unless something else is found or added that definitively disproves it. I think it fits everything known so far quite well and, to me, is by far the most compelling explanation.

@Nous997

Ай бұрын

The Erdtree was created by Marika, not by the Greater Will.

@alyseleem2692

Ай бұрын

​@@Nous997It was created from the Crucible, which in turn was seeded by the Elden Ring, which in turn was sent by the Greater Will. Regardless of whether it was Marika herself, it becoming a tree seems to be it's natural progression. The difference is, Marika removed death and the Flame so that unlike the other trees, it'd stay alive forever.

@Nous997

Ай бұрын

@@alyseleem2692 the problem is people who believe that the Elden Ring is a parasite. The Elden Ring is the underlying basis of life; they cannot be separated. They think that the Greater Will is the god of the Golden Order, but it isn't. The one who holds that role is Marika. The Greater Will is a entity that brought life and order to the world.

the distant giant tree motif is one of my favorite aspects of Miyazaki's games. Just really goes a long way to show how even though you feel like what you're doing in game is of massive importance, the world is so much bigger than we could ever possibly imagine.

@Dangerman-zg3ui

Ай бұрын

Hell almost every from soft game has trees being centre.

Yup. By the way, congratulations on 700K subscribers, Zullie!!!

@THExRISER

Ай бұрын

Hi Max! Love your stuff!

@ZullietheWitch

Ай бұрын

Thanks, the channel has gotten bigger than I ever expected.

@cloudbloom

Ай бұрын

Oh shit yellow man is here

@RahmpageChicken

Ай бұрын

​​@@ZullietheWitch Considering the fact this channel is so excellent at delivering trivia and theories regarding the art and design of FROMSOFT games succinctly and entertainingly (and you read and reply to comments), I'd say you absolutely deserve it and more. As long as you want more, that is!

@eizenkanz7668

Ай бұрын

​@@ZullietheWitchTbf you're a godsend in the souls community, well deserved subs, congrats! 🎉

I think the idea of the Elden Beast having influence over otherworlds is super interesting, because that means... how big is the universe in Elden Ring itself? Which direction could the series go if they continue it? What strange places and odd worlds are hidden just beyond our sight? I think it's awesome because despite the story of Elden Ring feeling like such a grand huge adventure of glory, by the end we really do feel like just a small part of something waaaaay bigger that we don't understand yet. In otherwords: "Our eyes are yet to open..."

@alessandrodellalbani5641

Ай бұрын

Fromsoft never makes sequels,dark souls 2 was made exclusively for moneys,dark souls 3 was made so they could say they have a trilogy

@gravitationalforce3258

Ай бұрын

​@alessandrodellalbani5641 armoured core?

@alessandrodellalbani5641

Ай бұрын

@@gravitationalforce3258 ight YOU KNOW I'M TALKING ABOUT SOULSGAMES WHY DO YOU WANT TO ARGUE OVER F*CKING NOTHING

@dotgone

Ай бұрын

@@alessandrodellalbani5641 Because no, we didn't know what you're talking about. Fromsoft had kings field series, shadow tower series, the dark souls trilogy, armored core series - we can't read your mind when you're afflicted by madness.

@alessandrodellalbani5641

Ай бұрын

@@dotgone MAN I F*CKING HATE THIS COMMUNITY,Y'ALL WANT THE SMOKE FOR NO REASON

i read somewhere that the main inspiration for this imagery in DS1 with Ash Lake and archtrees was Nausicaa by Hayao Miyazaki !

@Knights_of_the_Nine

Ай бұрын

This ^

@jacobsomebody9266

Ай бұрын

I was waiting to see if anyone else spotted the similarity!

@StraightOuttaJarhois

Ай бұрын

That was my thought immediately when I first saw Ash Lake, it was just like the caverns under the Sea of Corruption. It's Miyazakis all the way down.

@reggieisnotadog4841

Ай бұрын

Right?! The first thing I thought when I watched Nausica was 'oh right so that's where FromSoft nicked that one from' (I say 'nicked' lovingly here, I've very much enjoyed all of their games).

@ultraphoenix95

Ай бұрын

Miyazaki, inspired by Miyazaki

This may be simply my impression, but when I first fought the Elden Beast I was under the impression that it was the spirit of the Erdtree. So when the scenery opened up and there appeared to be a seemingly limitless number of Erdtrees, I took it to mean that the Elden Beast was just one of endless legions that the Greater Will could send. Just one, and we called it a god.

The recurring theme i see with these pillars across all souls games is the idea of such structures holding the known world up, or to keep a lower world away as some sort of dimensional frontier.

@Ghost_gc

Ай бұрын

@@karlbharnarl in the case of demon's souls, perhaps the function is done by the nexus itself as it seems to be a gigantic tower and in the case of sekiro, it might be the tree the dragon hangs from. It is curious to me that sometimes it isn't a bunch of pillars but one enormous pillar. Bloodborne's nightmare frontier and nightmare of mensis makes me think of this as those are very large landmasses avobe what seems to be a sea covered in fog and sunken ships

1:38 there's a lot of consistent imagery in souls games (dragons=immortal, human immortality bad, manus type bosses) but I never noticed the massive pillars until this video. They're everywhere but Sekiro, unless I'm forgetting something there

@MichaelSmithSkater901

Ай бұрын

Sekiro has the trees in the Ancient Dragon boss fight... maybe that kind of counts?

I hope you see this: The lake that is in the underground beyond the remains of the ancestral spirit where you find a skull has a very interesting view... It's under the ocean, but the water is fully still, meaning the water does not go fully between the two layers (It'd be flowing if the ocean was draining into the underground) so why is that water there?

@FranzbroetchenGaming

Ай бұрын

No idea when you visited there last time but I just checked it out and the water is clearly flowing.

@TOUGHEYES

Ай бұрын

I think that was a site to a Primordial appreciation & veneration of Nature, while it was still around the time of the crucible form of the Greater Will. Thing is with those guys, they were Cosmicists without the fear. Those Ancestral Worshippers Speccing into intelligence as they do, but in that wordless rudimentary fashion, they comprehend the origins of creation in the world itself, and arrive at the same conclusion as we do with this vista of the trees, and the Elden Beast. Except for them, perhaps the colour of all creation is that turquoise blue?

@fatty1040

Ай бұрын

Yeah in the back of the ancestral woods at the waters are what looks like petrified stone trees standing similarly to the arena

@Demokaze

28 күн бұрын

The lake you're talking about has waves so you might wanna fact check. And even the water wasn't draining, there is wind underground since grass and trees are moving.

I like the idea that the Greater Will is not just in the Lands Between, but also has roots (both figuratively and literally) in other lands - which may be why Marika sent Godfrey and the Tarnished far away, not just for a honeymoon with Radagon, but also to spread the Greater Will's influence.

@fatty1040

Ай бұрын

Imo I think it's more likely Marika sent Godfrey and the tarnished away as a sort of failsafe plan. Melinas church dialogue (Third Church and Pilgrimage) hints at that.

@portalmanHUN

Ай бұрын

Marika sent the Tarnished away so that they can come back strong after the whole Shattering shitshow and clean house.

@soarel325

Ай бұрын

Godfrey and the Tarnished left the Lands Between, but they're on the same planet. Other lands do actually worship Marika and the Erdtree, according to the Confessor Set description

I joked with buddies for years that all the games are connected through the trees . I'm glad you brought this up! Also thanks for years of great videos !

@LordDragox412

Ай бұрын

The trees... Tetris... OH MY GOD IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

@PlasmaBoom

Ай бұрын

Yo me too! I always had my own headcannon that all the FromSoft games are up each of the trees in ash lake.

@THELOATHSOME_DUNGKILLER

Ай бұрын

Oh yeah, the miyasakimulltiverse, and all the poisonous swamps also are connected somehow

@Exel3nce

Ай бұрын

Well, it's silly tbf

@nayyarrashid4661

Ай бұрын

All From Soft games are connected through easter eggs and subtle throwbacks nothing more. But it would be nice if these different worlds had a much deeper connection.

i just always assumed the tree trunks in the hunters workshop was an explanation of why you can see other player hunters and summon npc helpers. its all one big overlaid multiworld.

@Exel3nce

Ай бұрын

Nah, but that assumption is very popular

@daruddock

Ай бұрын

To me they immediately struck me as masts of a ship, seeing as how there's lots of imagery surrounding deep water, lakes, and oceans in the game.

Has anyone ever talked about how you see the same imagery of the Elden Beast's arena in several other places, mainly boss battles? - The Elden Beast in the "center" of the arena, sorounded by the trees or pillars going up into the sky/stars -Ryakard's boss room with him and the snake in the middle and several pillars going up into the ceiling of the room -Placidusax's arena also has him in the center sorrounded by stone pillars -The moonlight altar in Ranni's quest, once you reach the place the first thing you see is some pillars/beams of light reaching from the ground up into the sky, the moon is sorounded by these pillars just like in the other examples

@jackkendall6420

Ай бұрын

I think you are just seeing the patterns inherent in good visual framing/shot composition.

@ZimmerSquash

Ай бұрын

You're over reaching

@TheNwahDango

Ай бұрын

Don't listen to the neigh-sayers. Patterns are patterns for a reason -- they wouldn't feature that exact specific visual in nearly every game if there wasn't explicit purpose. There's poison swamps because they like poison swamps, sure. But the trees/pillars thing isn't something Miyazaki invented because he wanted "cool visuals", it's based on an ancient mythological motif, just like nearly everything in these games are.

@evanseifert8858

Ай бұрын

Don't forget Ornstein and Smough, who are in the "center" of their room sorounded by pillars. Or the Old Demon King, who's in the "middle" of his arena sorounded by trees.

@ZimmerSquash

Ай бұрын

And Mohgwyn's Arena surrounded by Pillars? I love seeing the thematic patterns carefully designed by the developers. But sometimes some things are just there because it fills the space, adds to the theme and makes sense physically (such as to support roofs and caves). Those repetitions have to have meaning, of course, like probably the Elden Beast arena. I'm open to theories but some things just don't convince me and looks very over reaching.

One of my favorite aspects of FromSoft's storytelling is easily represented in these giant trees/pillars than exist across their games. From the Archtrees in DS1, to the mysterious pillars in BB and now the Erdtrees in ER, we see these impossibly enormous objects throughout these games and we have not even begun to understand them fully. To even think about the power behind what these things are and what they do in the worlds they belong in is far removed from what we can even comprehend, let alone properly study. It makes you feel that much smaller and inconsequential in these worlds that such universal forces exist to create these things or places at all. It's humbling and awe-inspiring at the same time and it's why I love these games and their worlds.

@Exel3nce

Ай бұрын

It's still just big ass stone trees

@Alex_Barbosa

Ай бұрын

Is it storytelling if there are no stories to tell though?

@Darkheart00

Ай бұрын

@@Alex_Barbosa depends. It all depends on the belief you have on a creator’s integrity. I, for one, have too much respect for Miyazaki’s integrity. So when Miyazaki talks about there being a FULL and COMPLETE story that he isn’t ready to share to the players, I have belief in Miyazaki’s integrity that there is a full story, and that it all connects. I believe him, and trust his storytelling methods that I must interpret it myself.

@Alex_Barbosa

28 күн бұрын

@@Darkheart00 I dunno, we've never really been given a complete story, so I guess that's where my doubt comes from. That and it would be so easy to lie and say you have something, but your never going to show it. And if there is a story, and we never get a full picture, he dies, then it was all for nothing anyway. It's a bit demoralizing sometimes. I like the speculation and theory crafting process, but if there is never any answers, then there's never any payoff either. Like a jumpscare that never comes.

The recurring trees and pillars may also be drawing from the scenery in Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind. The area beneath the Toxic Jungle has pillar-like trees that are very similar to the ones in Ash Lake, which is located beneath Blighttown's own poison swamp. Additionally, Caelid seems like it may have been partially inspired by the Toxic Jungle itself!

@Knights_of_the_Nine

Ай бұрын

Zullie showed a cut enemy in Dark Souls 1 that was supposed to appear in blightown and it's literally a 1 to 1 copy of the giant worms in Nausica.

@Mautar55

Ай бұрын

Ahhh yes... The tale of two Miyazakis.

@termiguin1

Ай бұрын

The giant skulls in Caelid and the mountain tops are probably a reference to the warrior skulls from Nausicaa as well

The imagery of the spires or columns is also reminiscent of Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaa and the crystalline caverns beneath the toxic jungle.

@jacobsomebody9266

Ай бұрын

Definitely

This concept might have also been inspired by Nausicaä, the first studio Ghibli film (well technically it was before Ghibli was founded). In the movie there was also a underground forest with massive trees that made up the foundation of the world. It's pretty likely that Miyazaki was inspired by Miyazaki on this theme or visual concept, given how well known the movie us and that there is a Manga series as I recently found out.

@jacobsomebody9266

Ай бұрын

Yeah, it seems like it's a big parallel; I do think he must have taken some inspiration from Nausicaa, at least for the Ash Lake in Dark Souls

I always interpreted the trunk in the elden beast boss fight as show the presence of the greater will on other planets since the outer gods are references to Lovecraft and many of his gods were actually alien on origin.

This is the thing that first struck me when i got to the Elden Beast and saw all those other Erdtrees in the distance. The Lands Between are not the only world the Greater Will has been to, and almost certainly not the first. Really hammers home how, despite everything we've been through and all history of the Elden Ring here, its all so miniscule compared to the GW and its endeavors. Cosmic horror indeed.

@soarel325

Ай бұрын

The divine creator is a source of horror for you?

@giantflamingrabbitmonster8124

29 күн бұрын

@@soarel325 interesting response. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing that indicates that the GW ever created anything.

@soarel325

29 күн бұрын

@@giantflamingrabbitmonster8124 Did you not finish Hyetta's questline?

@giantflamingrabbitmonster8124

26 күн бұрын

@@soarel325 I did, though it's been a while so I looked up her lines. Relevant portion: "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake." This could mean that the "One Great" and the Greater Will are the same, but I think it means that the GW is just one of the forces/entities that came from the One Great after the "fractures". Either way, it doesn't necessarily imply that the One Great/GW created anything, just that all that is came from it (which I admit is potentially just a semantic difference) Tbh, if what she says is true, the best case for what the GW actually created would be "Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse". Which maybe means it fits the definition of both "divine" and "creator", but it's not what those terms together tend to imply (at least from a christian-baked perspective, others may reasonably differ). and all this in context that none of these beings seem at all concerned with personal daily human suffering/death/struggle, or potentially even aware of it, yet they are the ones cosmically "in control", so yeah, cosmically horrifying.

Another place in ER with similar imagery is located in the Siofra River-area, at the western* edge of the area with Ancestral followers. Not only is the whole area, both the higher and lower elevations, full of these trunks that look like petrified trees, they stretch out across the underground lake at the eastern edge, creating this strange parallel to the view in the Elden Beast's room. I think it could be interpreted in all sorts of ways, like representing a past version of Order.

@nightscout9979

Ай бұрын

I think you actually have to look at the lake from the southeastern shore, rather than the lake with the trees extending to the east. It's a great visual at the upper Ancestral Woods.

I always assumed the arena was like the second Renala phase, an illusion to psyche you out. The moon there looms large as if to say "I have the power here", just like the many Erdtrees. It's meant to make you feel like you're at a disadvantage. Then you win the fight and it all disappears.

@nightmare4lol

Ай бұрын

I definitely feel where youre coming from with that interp. But its kinda hard to say on that one. Its easily implied that renalas 2nd phase is an illusion to psyche you out, but for elden beast, idk. The way you get there is so vague, but it feels like your legitimately being pullied into the furthest reaches of the erdtree. But your theory makes sense because then how after defeating the elden beast do we just appear right back in the area where marikas crumbling body is again. Maybe it really is in our head, but I still get the feeling its not an illusion. Maybe its a true inner psyche battle.

@Windowsprodukt

Ай бұрын

Rennalas second phase is something Ranni does. Both of them have a strong connection to the moon, so I don't think it would be incorrect that Ranni brought us & Rennala to the moon, or brought the moon to us, in order to awaken the true power of Rennala. Like giving an old knight his old sword, but it's the moon itself. It certainly feels like more than an illusion.

@TheKrossRoads

Ай бұрын

@@Windowsprodukt I believe that the Rennala we fight in the second phase is part of the illusion. The real Ren is mind-broken and won't even defend herself, the children are making her barrier for her. She seems perfectly content with anything that happens to her as long as she's cuddling that egg. Heck, Sellen takes over like it's nothing. Ren doesn't even put up a struggle getting stuffed behind a bookcase. Ranni must have recognized her mother's condition, and she still seems to care for her. So all she needs is an illusion to fire off when mom is in mortal danger; to defend her when she won't defend herself. That's why Rennala is perfectly fine after the boss fight. We beat her up a bit at the start, but she was chilling while we battled Ranni's spell. Then she kindly respecs us into an int user just long enough to finish Goldmask's quest.

It's Miyazaki's subtle way to tell us "protect the trees, they are our world". 🌲🌳

The Great Pillars imagery has always been a favorite staple of FromSoft games, it just so epic and awe-inspiring

I like the idea of the FromSoftware Multiverse being represented by infinite pillars/trees. Has an almost fairy tale like aesthetic to it.

@Minishedders

8 күн бұрын

It reminds me of the Nightmare Before Christmas, with the Halloween tree, Christmas tree and so on

I think miyazaki just really really likes the piss filter so much that he put a huge golden tree at the middle of the map

I always looked at the Elden Beast's trees as representations of other Erdtrees on other worlds that the Greater Will seeded with life, just like it did in the Lands Between. That would kinda explain why it is left the TLB and not that invested in it's future. Also, in the Frenzied Flame ending Melina states that she is going to hunt down the Tarnished wherever they may go, whic implies that the Lord of Frenzird Flame still has a purpose, and that purpose is maybe to destroy other Elden Rings that exists on other worlds.

@blakebleeds

Ай бұрын

my first thought was that the trees reminded me of the wood between worlds from the chronicles of narnia, where each tree leads to its own world. I think there's a similar place in the nightmare before christmas? lol I wonder if there's some kind of deeper mythological basis to that imagery

From games are absolute art pieces.

I think theres a lot more precidence to the Erdtree we see being an illusion and the rot tree in the DLC is bearing it down. When we fight the Erdbeast, every Erdtree in the background is standing upright. Implying this is how theyre supposed to stand Whereas ours is leaning or rather the tree isnt an illusion, but whatever is pulling it down is being hidden from sight

I've always imagined a drunk Miyazaki occasionally barging into writing sessions yelling, "Guys! What if, hear me out... BIG TREE!" and they just have to keep finding ways to fit big trees into the games. Ultimately, this led to "GUYS! What if... BIG TREE: THE GAME!"

I like that shot of the Tarnished holding the torch, with their reflection in the water.

I cannot believe you drew the comparison to Zdzisław Beksiński in this video and I love you for calling that to my attention. I've always been a great fan of his but never saw the similarities before now. As for the theories, I like to believe the idea that the other trees represent other worlds of other players, or universes. Thanks for that, too. Love your work as always.

I’d like to throw out that there are also many spiritual Sakura Trees seen in the background when you face the Enteral Dragon in Sekiro. Could be just similar fromsoft imagery, or it could be a link between the games.

Cannot wait for Shadow of the Erdtree.

The strange orange mist in one particular area was always quite ominous to me, it even has a fog wall that blocks you from geting too close to it during the Elden Beast fight

Since every single one of these games has online co-op / PvP and the players you interact with are clearly separated from your world i see it as an artistic representation of all those who played alongside you whether you played with them or not. Pretty beautiful in a way

@Exel3nce

Ай бұрын

Stone trees, that's it

I like to think those pillars/trees represent other lands or even worlds where to golden order has made itself know and even has made other erdtrees Edit: just watched the video and now realized that i took the idea from this but I posted this before I swear

Ooh, I'm rather tickled by the idea that my favorite series may have some inspiration from my favorite picture by my favorite artist. I once wrote a short story about that same Zdzisław Beksiński painting! It's very evocative. Er, the painting not my story :p

@user-sg7rl8be1s

Ай бұрын

shush we do not care

It's a take on the axis mundi or world tree concept common to many real world mythologies. Some object, a tree, a spear, a mountain is conceptualized as a connection between the world of the mundane and the world of the divine. Since these games are dealing in parallel worlds, they tend to have multiple axis mundi. I tend to think that they aren't representative of the many worlds of the players though. I think they're more about the many "worlds" that inspired the games in the first place. A symbolic connection being transformed into a figurative one. As though the world of Berserk and the TTRPGs Miyazaki used as inspiration are actually accessible in his games.

Zullie the goat

The Ash Lake scenery reminds me of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. In that story, there are also ancient trees far under the earth, long turned to crystal, which uphold the lands above.

Your cinematography is so good. I love the beatiful shots you create for your vids ^.^

in my head the elden beast arena is physically on top of the erdtrees canopy. the erdtree pillars aren't entirely real, but meta-psychical manifestations of pillars holding up the sky (space, not like, the clouds), like the archtrees hold up the world in ds1.

I always loved the unspoken implications of this motif in each of the games. Makes my imagination ignite!

The interpretation I took from seeing the multiple Erdtrees was that the Greater Will is a sort of cosmic parasite, and the Erdtrees are how it literally "takes root" in different worlds/universes.

@ScarletEdge

Ай бұрын

Then it influences the disruption of the life and death cycle (golden order) and nicks all the souls and energy for himself.

@ScarletEdge

Ай бұрын

@@karlbharnarl I love how you used so many words to say you disagree with this premise. It's a fluffy "no, cuz trust me bro" comment.

@djx7134

Ай бұрын

@@ScarletEdge It's literally two sentences, albeit not well-structured sentences. Tiktok got the new generation thinking two whole sentences is too much. Oh boy ...

@GodfreyFirstEldenLord

Ай бұрын

@@karlbharnarlelden ring literally is a garden and the greater will is some sort of mushroom parasite taking over the erdtree. It’s not bs at this point it’s factually proof. Let’s start simply godrick the grafted, grafting is a process farmers use in order to strengthen plants by cutting off one plant and putting it on another so they grow better and have multiple immunities against diseases etc. The jars like Alexander are the once collecting dead bodies and bring them to minor erdtree as fertiliser and you can see that by all the other dead jars who have been smashed by the mini boss. Ranni looks like a specific mushroom with her outfit and blue skin as a matter of fact elden ring is full of mushrooms but let’s continue. The outer gods have specific roles that aline with the fact that elden ring is just one huge garden literally. How do you for example get rid off all parasites that infect a garden? Well you could cut them down or use pesticides or literally burn them down like the frenzied flame ending suggests. I mean the literally biggest part about the game is a giant ahh tree. There’s also evidence that the greater will overtook the erdtree which was formerly the great tree you can literally see it because the color is still there on one side of the erdtree as a matter of fact the dung eater ending literally shows you what the erdtree originally was. The whole world of elden ring is based off of gardening and they make it very clear, and parasites are also a part of gardens. The greater will is a parasite that’s why they show you how many trees=worlds it destroyed. Also the ashes of fire will be nurishment for plants so that’s makes the frenzied flame ending even more gardening related. All the outer gods act like parasites except the frenzied flame. The scarlet rot is more like pest tho or perhaps some kind of bacterial infecting giving the fact that flowing water seems to be its kryptonite and bacteria, viruses and parasites have the least amount of success while entering another beings body in flowing rivers and such. That’s why stagnant water is full of parasites and bacterias while flowing water is less infected. That’s why the one who sealed the scarlet rot is the blind swordsman who got his powers from a water spirit which is water malenia uses to fight against the scarlet rot displayed by the waterfowl dance. Ik it’s a lot to read but it’s literally the truth elden ring operates as a garden and parasites are part of that garden

@ScarletEdge

Ай бұрын

@@djx7134 I don't have a problem with rich comments. I have a problem with comments that use word salad to create an illusion of richness.

I always took the Erdtrees in Elden beast’s arena to be an indication that the greater will is doing the same all over the world, across the universe. It always gave me this vibe of almost colonialism.

Didn't expect Beksinski to make it into a video about dark souls but then again his artwork has always reminded me of the feelings I get when playing souls games 👀

When I saw the trees in Ash Lake I always thought of the scene under the swamp in Nausica and The Valley of The Wind

I think partially, Miyazaki was inspired by Miyazaki. Specifically Hayao Miyazaki. The parallels in Dark Souls 1 of the Ash Lake being beneath the poison swamp at the bottom of Blight Town struck me as near direct lifting from Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. For those who don't know, in the manga and film, the world is being slowly consumed by a Toxic Jungle/Swamp, which feels like something Hidetaka would love. Part way into the story, Nausicaa and her soon to be ally Asbel fall to the floor of the Toxic Jungle, and sink through a sandpit. Underneath they see a wide area filled with fresh water and air, with sand bars they can walk on, while long dead petrified trees hold up the world above. It looks remarkably like Ash Lake. I also feel it fits with the themes of Dark Souls. From knowledge Nausicaa learned from growing the Toxic Plants safely, she realised the entire worlds soil is polluted, and suggests that the Toxic Jungle is only toxic due to this pollution and is actually cleaning up the toxins. I feel the idea of the Toxic Jungle being part of this cycle of destroying the old world to give birth to a new one fits remarkably well (especially if you look at the manga which has a more reaching story than the film) with Dark Souls plots around the Age of Dark, with the old world needing to die for a new one to take it's place.

I've always found it remniniscent of the Underground Forest in Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind

@natk8541

Ай бұрын

Yeah the way it's done in Dark Souls 1 is very very very clearly taken almost direct from Nausicaa

I truly appreciate the time you put into your content. I don’t have time to sink into games like I used to, and your super informative and beautifully edited videos always bring me right back into the fantastic worlds we love to play in. THANK YOU!

It's crazy how good the twilight princess soundtrack goes with elden ring/from soft games. The vibe felt right

Nokstella and the other sunken cities also have a very similar aesthetic to that of Elden Beast arena. The giant collums of the ancient kingdoms ruins and the false night skies the cities have. Kinda surprised you didn't mention it yourself Zullie. Congratulations on all the subs btw.

@RerethaRetha

Ай бұрын

I was really struck by this on my last playthrough. The imagery is so 1:1 when looking out from the cliff near Ancestral Woods and Nokron, with the distant starry cave ceiling and the treelike stone protrusions from the lakebeds below.

This off topic from Fromsoft games, but an interesting note for Tears of the Kingdom is that the normal aboveground is held up seemingly by large roots that span the Depths. A cool theory I found was that after Hyrule was flooded (Windwaker timeline) the depths was the bottom of the Great Ocean, and the Great Deku tree with the koroks planted new forests across the isles. Which interconnected and formed the new hyrule. Sorry was off topic but found it similar and neat!

Thanks for making such awesome and insightful soulsbourne videos - it’s such a nice oasis from reality when one of your vids pop up 😊

@ZullietheWitch

Ай бұрын

Thanks, it just shows how well these games are made that you can start pulling at any given thread and probably find something interesting.

Trees seem to represent universes or timelines, with many branches but singular pillars. Firelink Shrine in Dark Souls is denoted with a singular tree near the bonfire, possibly representing the player who dies many times (the branches) but still is one person. Similarly, the entirety of lordran seems held up by a single archtree. We also can see the First Flame began in the depths of an archtree, possibly representing the beginning of time. One important thing to note is the original Kiln of the First Flame in Dark Souls, which is held on a giant archtree but whose entire top has been replaced by the kiln, the archtree now reduced to a hollowed trunk. This possibly represents the end of time/possibility for a world, and does function as the actual end of the game.

Nice catch with the painting, I wonder. How did you hear of it?

@ZullietheWitch

Ай бұрын

It's something I had seen before, and something about it always felt like it could be relevant to Dark Souls. There's something about it that feels like it may have even inspired the lords coming from the dark to claim souls from the First Flame.

Pretty sure Miyazaki got the idea for this type of visual from Nausicaa of the valley of the wind aswell!

@jacobsomebody9266

Ай бұрын

I think so too

Makes me think of the visual form "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind". There is a scene where multiple trunks exist below the toxic forest, slowly cleaning it and suporting it.

I remember when you were about 10k subscribers, oh how far you’ve come!

I always thought of Nausicaa of the valley of the wind, they have a similar concept in that movie where the world is poisoned and there are massive tree looking pillars draining the poison from the world Im bad at explaining things, go watch the movie, it'll make more sense

@ZullietheWitch

Ай бұрын

The underground forest is definitely a possible inspiration for Ash Lake. We even have a direct reference to Nausicaa in Dark Souls III, with Gael's AI being named after Lord Yupa.

@jacobsomebody9266

Ай бұрын

​@ZullietheWitch very cool 👍

Bringing my favorite painter into this? Hell yeah! I've seen his work several times in museums + I have to reproduction painting on my wall.

Shots like the one at 2:16 are awesome. I've been watching your channel for a while and seeing how you gradually get creative with your visuals using the game engine is incredibly cool. Great work!

I always interpreted the tree pillars recurring as an idea that each tree is a different Soulsborne world, so that its universe is splintered, yet connected. You can see the other worlds, aknowledge their presence and understand how insignifact your entire quest is in the vastness of the universe. I also like the idea that only those who go beyond the madness and futility get to actually see the other trees, as they are hidden from most who will give up or die before they unveil the true nature of their cracked world-box. Also, yes, the Beksiński bit is very true, he was the first thing that came to mind the second I exited that damn Selia Tunnel in Caelid. He seems to be getting more and more recognition lately and rightfully so. His paintings are more twisted than the most poisonous of Miyazaki's swamps. And just like him he left the interpretation to the viewer. I also thought those crescent astrolabes were another reference, as one my absolute favourite paintings by him is that big lonely tree with a sharp gory crescent in the foreground. One of the best artists there were.

@Exel3nce

Ай бұрын

It's the most common interpretation, but also the most silly one tbh

The Greater Will is the creator God, so of course has influence beyond the Lands Between

When I first saw the Elden Beast arena I thought that the trees in the background are other Erdtrees on different planets or something that the Greater Will occupies. It makes the scale and the vastness of the Outer Gods seem that much more immense and hard to imagine.

One thing this imagery has always called to mind for me is aspen clusters, groups of trees and in some cases massive stretches of forest that appear to all be individual trees - but are all actually the same organism linked together underground. The idea of parallel worlds, linking together player's alternate realities (and maybe even the universes of the other games) seems like it would fit with that, though it may not be intentional.

Your videos are amazing and you always lead towards such amazing things. Im so happy you showed me Zdzisław Beksiński

An Erdtree is never alone.

There is probably a panel with lots of tree trunks somewhere in Berserk, I assume.

I’ve been saying this for agesssss, I’m glad it’s getting some recognition, amazing work! Congrats on 700k!🥳

I like the idea that this isn't the only Erdtree the Greater Will has, perhaps those trees in the arena are on different planets.

I love you forever for bringing up Beksinski, my absolute favorite artist.

Wow, that painting was quite a haunting note to end the video on! Love it

I was not expecting the mention of Zdzislaw Beksinski, but I'm very glad it was brought up. I always thought of that specific painting when viewing the distant pillar imagery in these games. The man's art lives rent-free in my head, and it's my favorite thing to draw comparisons to, for a bit of fun. I also recommended looking further into Beksinski if you really enjoy strange, existential, bleak, and even sometimes horrific art. The man was quite the artist, among many art forms, though I think some didn't work as well as others did.

Beksiński mentioned, I've been summoned. I was actually in Sanok at a special exhibition, since I live just next town over. It was an exhibition where we'd have VR headsets and be shown to 3D versions of his paintings. It was stunning to see those hellish landscapes brought to life and all around me

I'm so happy you talked about this Zullie, it's been on my mind for ages. Also, Beksinzki is one of my favorite artists ever and it's cool to see that connection

My impression was always that just as the outer gods compete for influence in the Lands Between, with the Greater Will having the most influence and control in the Lands Between, so to do they compete for influence in other worlds, other places that they cannot directly reach. The Erdtree is the great symbol of the Greater Will's presence and influence in the Lands Between, and the sea of stars where the Elden Beast resides is full of the trunks of other Erdtrees which have colonized other lands. The Elden Beast, being the embodiment of the Greater Will in the physical world, could hypothetically be visited by entering any Erdtree. Of course, this is just what I think of it.

There's also a bunch of tree in a lake that can be seen in the underground area near where obe gets the ancestral infant's head near nokron.

I always thought we were getting a glimpse at some sort of 'Grand Design' were we can see all the other Erd Trees that the Greater Will has established across the different lands, not just ours

I love the twilight princess faron wood theme

There are trunks/pillars like these at the top of Siofra that appear to be grey or petrified too, where the ancestor spirit women are singing and you have the light the second set of braziers to unlock the regal ancestral guardian boss.

It's also reminicient of the petrified trees at the bottom of the toxic jungle in Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind

Really glad to see a video covering this recurring imagery. I've seen this in several FromSoft games and my headcanon has always been these are representations of other worlds. It was a truly mind-blowing experience seeing it for the first time at Ash Lake, like I had gained some understanding of the impossible or discovered a hidden truth of the world. There, at the base of our own Archtree, I couldn't help but think there must be worlds beyond our own.

The whole ''bridges between worlds'' theme they have with the trees never get old

To me, the trees in the arena represent the "branches" of the Greater Will's galactic dominion, all the other worlds it seeded surrounding the dimensional hub the Elden Beast fight takes places it. It suits well with the idea that Ash Lake represents the imagery of Yggdrasil, with each tree truck leading to a different world. Miyazaki might really like that particular idea since each game since has it's own version of it representing in some way a dimensional branch. (the pillars were also in Things Betwixt)

Thank you for all your explorations!

I was always under the impression that it was all just some illusion made by the Elden Beast. After all, the other trees only appear once it covers the arena in mist, so it’s possible that it’s showing you a glimpse into a possible future or something, where the world is covered in countless Erdtrees. Then again, I’m not sure if the Elden Beast is smart enough for something like that.

I totally agree that they represent other worlds. Its interesting with elden ring though because we get the metaphysical erdtrees of the elden beast arena and we get the physical fossilized ones down underground. I wonder what it entails

Elden Ring was my first FromSoft game where I actively made sure to read every item description and such the moment I got them. It was also the first time I bothered to do every NPC questline (that I found, anyway) instead of abandoning some of them for later playthroughs. As such, I finished Elden Ring with a very solid understanding of what was going on in its universe, and my immediate and only interpretation of the Elden Beast's arena is that the trees represent the Erdtrees from other planets under the Greater Will's control. And the water you walk combined with the Elden Beast's swimming ability are an evocative way of making the player feel like they're floating in the void of the cosmos. With the Elden Beast swimming and jumping out of it like a whale.

Thank you for mentioning Beksinski. I feel like in the common references to inspirations, he is often left unmentioned.

One thing no one has mentioned is the stone replica of this area which can be seen in the upper ancestral woods near where the infant head can be found.

If we revisit the Greater Will being an outer god that claimed the Lands Between after sundering the One Great, planting the Erd Tree as it's anchor to the Lands Between, then it would make sense that the Elden Beast's arena has a nod to the idea that it's invaded and rooted itself in other worlds as well.

I LOVE anything that mentions my boy Zdzisław Beksiński. Adore his art.

Just what I wanted before going to sleep. A video that makes my mind wander around and wonder about the multiple pillars in the Souls series and their possible implications. Very grateful for your thoughts!

So cool that you include bekinskys art. I'd never seen that piece before!