Impressive how Elden ring has layers of Norse mythology, Sumerian aesthetics, alchemy, middle ages, dark fantasy, cosmic horror and even psychology... The best game ever

@jachobbehnke3987

2 күн бұрын

Without a doubt, my favorite game ever created.

@Vaga-Bard

2 күн бұрын

Those are images of one another and their universal archetypes that govern human thinking. Your seeing the root, the inescapable walls of the human mind, not a reproduction.

@jackplisken4738

2 күн бұрын

youre right , Bloodborne is still Froms GOAT

@Rhougue

2 күн бұрын

@@jackplisken4738yeah right. bloodborne is so one dimensional compared to elden ring it's not even fair cause ER basically trumps bloodborne in every way. just appreciate them for what they are, if you compare any game to elden ring it will fall short lmao

@charltonrd

2 күн бұрын

has one of the best fantasy writers (GRRM)

This is exactly what I thought when I started to explore shadow realm, it felt like we are inside Marika's mind.

@ndoe5219

2 күн бұрын

But we’re not… it’s quite literally a physical place that existed before Marika. It existed before she even ascended to godhood. It’s hidden by Marika to prevent others with the ability to ascend to godhood from finding it. Which is spelt out for us throughout the dlc when doing the npcs quest lines

@RaewCZ

2 күн бұрын

@@ndoe5219 you're right, miquella's journey mirrors hers... I just wanted more from the ending. I was running around the arena after it was over bcs I thought we're gonna get to the haven gate xD and see some epic sh*t

@ndoe5219

2 күн бұрын

@@RaewCZ holy shit that would have been cool. Take the fight to divinity itself

@tajdaffa1526

7 сағат бұрын

In Marika's home town

The suppression pillar has plaque mentioning it is in the center of the Lands Between. It literally is that small cloud in the middle of the map, the veil hiding the whole place from being seen. The top of the divine tower pirces the veil, and you can see the Erdtree behind the Scadutree, placing the location in that cloud in the middle of the map. Also, note the clouds all around the border of the map in the land of shadow.

@LoopyAnh

2 күн бұрын

Also overlay the maps ontop of each other. It lays out perfectly and matched the gaping hole in the lands between. It litterally is the center of the lands between but using whatever godly powers the land of shadows, litterally shadow under the erdtree, as the scadutree and erdtree both are in the same location. So she hid everything under the erdtree and banished it away to another dimension.

@herp_derpingson

Күн бұрын

I just checked it again behind the scadutree. Its just sunlight and clouds you are imagining things.

@LoopyAnh

Күн бұрын

@herp_derpingson lay the map ontop of the other map. It is the same spot when overlayed. It is the same spot where erdtree would be.

@ProbablyLying

Күн бұрын

Ya this video is stupid

@ShadeGuardian

12 сағат бұрын

Correct me if I’m wrong but go out to the isolated divine tower and look out towards the base of the Erdtree in the middle of the map, and you can see the top branches of the scadutree peaking through the veil, it’s exactly where it’s supposed to be on the map as well, the whole place is literally in the “shadow of the Erdtree”

I believe The Land Of Shadow was hidden to supress Marika's mortality. She was never the almighty Goddess everyone thought she was. Marika was never eternal and to make others think she was, Messmer and everything about her origin had to go. She killed approximately 6 birds with one stone by suppressing the Land Of Shadow. Branching from what you mentioned about hiding ones own faults, Marika's limit came in the form of Messmer and it appears that same curse followed through for every single one of her children. All of them failed except for Godwyn and Miquella but Godwyn was brutally murdered by Ranni and Miquella wasn't fit to become a God. I believe Miquella also figured out the steps Marika took to become a Goddess and went to follow her, but we the Tarnished ordained by Marika HERSELF to become Elden Lord, follow Miquella to see what he's up to and wind up uncovering every nasty secret about Marika's family. I believe she knew she couldn't keep the Lands Of Shadow hidden and trusted us to learn the truth and come to the proper conclusion of what to do as Elden Lord. Marika couldn't relinquish any of the Outer God's, so she hid the lands they have the most influence and told her land any who dabble in these elements are sinners, starting with snakes and fire since they technically took her son from her and left her powerless to help him. I started typing this before the video ended and noticed we actually came to a similar conclusion. The Tarnished is Marika's last attempt to make everything right. This is also why Messmer doesnt understand why she sent us. He never knew about her disappearance, the death of his kin OR the return of the Tarnished because he was surprised to see us. What stood out is the fact he knew about the Tarnished at all. This means he knew of Godfrey but their relation is never specified.

Interesting bit about Castle Morne at the end i didnt put that together. Though im pretty sure the item description says that the surviving champion was a male though that could be a refference to Radagon. Im excited for lore hunters to return to the base game with all this new knowledge and put more pieces together and come up with new theories. Great video as always thanks for your hard work.

I have had a lot of comments about the Suppressing Pillar that "definitively" tells us where the Shadow Lands is. _"The very center of the Lands Between. All manners of Death wash up here, only to be suppressed."_ I think I should have made myself more clear. I 100% agree that its under the cloud and a physical place - I simply believe it's meant to be taken metaphorically. The word "suppressing" is a very unique word that is not found in the definition of a literal shadow that is cast by an object. BUT that word "suppressing" is found everywhere within the definition of a psychological shadow. If anything, the suppressing pillar is yet another clue as to the real meaning of the Realm of Shadow.

Isn't it interesting that we can see the actual Sun *in the land of shadow* but we *NEVER* see the Sun in The Lands Between?

@mdcrumpler

2 күн бұрын

praise the sun

@angelmiguel3874

2 күн бұрын

you can see the sun

@formatomi

2 күн бұрын

@@angelmiguel3874its just small

@mudmanmuda1595

2 күн бұрын

I kind of see the story like a puzzle that we are thrust into the story and we put those puzzle pieces together ourselves through the world building and Get info from the npcs that they tell us. And all npc tell their side from their perceptions and motives (wif all dem different endings and all that) It’s kinda like how after a party where the next morning you try to figure out what adventures were had at that party lol :p

@Morrov

2 күн бұрын

You can see the sun in The Lands Between though, but it is very small and seemingly insignificant

Its obvious to me that the Shaman village is her original home. It would explain how she met her two fingers and why she left her incantation there. It was the last thing she did before going to become a God. Themes of abandonment are clear, Marika left behind everything, instead of being sad forever. Miquella was about to do the same thing that why St. Trina asks us to kill him.

@PlatinumAltaria

2 күн бұрын

The childhood home of mortal Marika was cast into the Land of Shadow when she sought to become a god, for a god has no birthplace.

@LoopyAnh

2 күн бұрын

The whole become a god thing seems to me that marika did just that due to her rage at the hornsent and those who killed her people. It shines a light on why the omen/crucible are reviled to the golden order. As well as the hatred of the snakes. Marika litterally started her accension just to wipe them out and hide the fact away Where it was already hinted she was a conqueror but the land of shadow shows a literal genocide. She just blamed her son who was cursed and sealed him away along with all evidence of her major crimes.

@tajdaffa1526

7 сағат бұрын

No, Marika bathed her village in a gold rays after her become a God, she did that in case she found no one to cure

@JLeviNow

5 сағат бұрын

@@tajdaffa1526 No her Talisman and her incantation imply she was the last one left. Leaving that golden tree as a momento to her people, hence why it said she knew there was on left to heal. Its actually implied that the tree on the Shaman village has gotten weaker over time since it said it bathed the land in gold but we only see it light up the immediately area with gold leaves flowing through the air. The incantation is actually the same one that makes the Erdtree glow since we know that the Erdtree is a illusory tree and as a God she would able pull off a giant version of her personal incantation.

As someone who was sexually assaulted when I was young and who has nightmares every evening your speech about carrying the shadow with you and that it cannot be denied really struck a chord with me it's very true and until now the only other way I have ever been able to describe it is similar to how the Dexter character explains his"dark passenger". I really want to thank you for such a thoughtful and well made video

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

You are very brave. I am sorry that happened to you and am glad you enjoyed the video. Much love

@ModernMan12

2 күн бұрын

that’s a difficult thing to carry, and i’m glad you’re making meaning of it through others’ analysis of art

@tylerforbes4359

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished thank you so much

I don't think her shadow is an actual thing nor the shadowlands a nightmare, but I think it's a really good metaphor for Marika. She was young shaman who had a vision of an age of plenty, which would be rid of all the things that hurt her and whom she loved. Yet the actions she takes to create this age harm others, and try as she might she cannot escape the consequences of her actions (this would be her "shadow"). I think your character analysis of her is spot on, and that's more important than the metaphysics of the lands between, anyways. Marika's story is actually rather tragic. I think we are supposed to take Miquella's journey as a parallel - ie: Marika, too, tried to divest herself of the past.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Couldn't agree more about Miquella's journey being a parallel to Marika's. Since we never communicate with Marika, the only way to get her story is through other stories paralleling hers. I often wonder if Rennala's story is a reflection of Marika's. Once powerful queen's, something happened to their children, they retreat into their former place of power and become husks of their formers selves.

@Jawwhn

Күн бұрын

It is an actual thing, what do you mean? There's history linked to lands between and Miquella goes there. I think there's themes of Marika's mental state but in this 'world', it's also a physical thing. It is a fantasy world of god's and myth's. People are trying to force it to make sense in our reality, when it doesn't need to. It's a story. All of these things can be true and not true.

"The very center of the Lands Between. All manners of Death wash up here, only to be suppressed." - Suppressing Pillar

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Suppressing is a very unique word - not found in the literal definition of a shadow cast by an object but rather a psychological shadow.

Looks suspiciously like the chunk of land missing from the original map, with the scadu tree in the same spot as the Erdtree....more or less

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

For sure! I always assumed it was behind that cloud. But that still doesn't really help answer the question of where we are. It's much like FA where we need to be transported there and wake up in a totally different place. So, what does that mean/ represent? ER is not meant to be taken literal, but rather metaphorical. We have to ask ourselves what it means.

This is definitely NOT a Marika's dream. We know for sure about many events that happened in the Realm of Shadow long before Marika was even born. He is a child because of a curse, it has nothing to do with the Realm of Shadow.

Man, you should really look into Inanna/Ishtar and her poems; I think she’s a heavy inspiration for Marika. In the poem “Inanna's Descent into the Underworld,” it is a representation of confronting one’s shadow. she travels to the underworld to confront her sister Ereshkigal, the goddess of death, where she is stripped of her power, judged, killed, and later resurrected with the help of her companions and the gods. In “Inanna and the Huluppu Tree,” she finds a tree planted by the father god. Inanna transplants the huluppu tree from the Euphrates River to her garden in Uruk, hoping to use it for a throne and a bed. After the tree becomes infested with a snake, a demoness, and a bird, she requires Gilgamesh to help her drive them away, which he succeeds in doing. And in the Epic of Gilgamesh, when Gilgamesh rejects her advances, she is furious and goes to her father, Anu, demanding the Bull of Heaven to punish him. Anu reluctantly agrees, and the Bull of Heaven is sent to Uruk, causing widespread destruction. However, Gilgamesh, with the help of his friend Enkidu, manages to kill the bull which has its own consequences

Also, the Suppressing Pillar: "The very center of the Lands Between. All manners of Death wash up here, only to be suppressed." This makes little sense to me in any other context than what you're stating.

I like these tangential theories because i can't lie, every Fromsoft release over time leaves me a little disappointed, lore-wise, that we always get stories that end up 80% abstract and undetailed or unclarified, despite the fact the the foundation is all laid out. The lore often feels intentionally incomplete and while I get it's a design choice and it can be compelling, I was hoping Elden Ring would do more to detail the world and the lore and maybe leave less room for interpretation this time around. Or at least leave us with less questions about basically everything, especially since I doubt we will get more canonical Elden Ring in the future or at least any time soon. So all this to say, sometimes theories like your psychological/mental analysis of Elden Ring and other various interpretations of other channels do tie in different aspects of the stories and make the whole project look less vague or abstract and perhaps more detailed and fleshed out than it originally seemed to be.

@jasN86

Күн бұрын

While you're clearly aware of this, I'll say this: It's an age old saying that the best authors and/or story tellers are people who create worlds open to interpretation. Obviously FromSoft likes to do this so that we can get sucked in and create our own evolving story. However, I'd like to think that it's also partially due to them leaving games open to future installments. While HM has said this will essentially complete Elden Rings, you never know. Not only is there clearly more that can be told here, but share holders may eventually demand they return to this cash cow (or other Souls games that have similar endings that leave things up to interpretation) and make them more money. It's a win-win for them in every aspect, and it's give the community the ability to evolve and grow over time. With all that being said, I too was hoping for more resolution with the DLC. I feel like I have more questions than before it's release, lol.

@CausalityUsurper

Күн бұрын

Yeah, it wouldn't be very healthy or compelling for discussion for the community if it were open and shut. Miyazaki has gone on record saying that he wanted to share the experience of filling in the gaps with imagination that he had as a child attempting to read books in another language.

Love the videos man. Looking forward to more lore content!

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Thanks! Can’t wait to dig in

I feel like the veil is just a visual representation of the fact that the Shadow Lands are veiled, or hidden. Perhaps whatever power Marika used to hide them involved a spell/incantation that spread out an actual veil over the lands.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

It's definitely possible!

@CarbonFiberSwan

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished I typed out that thought before I had gotten very far into your video. Your theory is very intriguing too! The lore does make it clear that she hid the shadow lands somehow. Maybe as you said, in it's hidden state her nightmares have begun to effect the land and sky. The veils over her bed look very similar to the veils over the Scadutree, so maybe she is projecting her subconscious memories over the Shadow Lands.

@shiroamakusa8075

2 күн бұрын

It's not a veil, it's a shroud. The Lands of Shadow are the "afterlife" of the Lands Between but originally they were part of it as you can glean from the message atop the Suppressing Pillar. Marika obtained godhood out of a wish for vengeance against the Hornsent and once she was done with them, she hid that part away under the shroud and ordered her firstborn, Messmer, to keep continue the crusade against her old enemies forever as her removal of death from the new order meant they wouldn't stay down.

to morne connection at the end kind of blew my mind. Your a genius at noticing

@CenteredTarnished

20 сағат бұрын

That's very kind

Glad that you pointed out at the end there that the setting from which the Shadowlands is accessed is important. Marika's shadow is a nightmarish place. I think that the framing device is that everything found in the shadow is being rejected by the main Lands Between as undesired - including Miquella's ascent to godhood. Marika's circumstances were different from Miquella's - she didn't visit the Shadowlands but instead created them in her youth. Likely, Miquella as Marika/Radagon's "inner child" tried to recreate the past and failed because the conditions no longer exist to replicate Marika's path. Regarding the Supression Pillar description that all manner of death washes up here, death and dreams are sometimes conflated in classical literature. See Hamlet's soliloquy: "To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause" More generally, though the label of "Shadow" is used and the Jungian Shadow is probably the primary lens, I expect that there is an exploration here of all three branches of depth psychology. Freud is alluded to in Armored Core 6 (acompanied by an icon of a hand rising from shadow and holding a key) and there are a number of elements in the Elden Ring DLC that are telegraphing a psycho-sexual lens. And also psychologist Heinz Ludwig Ansbacher was a student of Alfred Adler whose major ideas were the inferiority complex and concept of "Will to Power". The irony being that Adler's ideas are the ones that are most thoroughly incorporated and accepted into modern psychology, and so Ansbach comes across as being the most rational of the NPC's despite also having the massive red flag of being a blood purist.

The great thing about such a masterful story and storytellers is that if u want to look at this game as a psychological journey or a fantasy story you can because its vague and precise enough to be either, its both

Great video! We are indeed diving deep into someone's mind :) I think Marika and her people, the Numen, traveled from far to the Lands of Shadow within those coffin/space ships. What I cannot understand yet is that the Shaman Village is apparently an place of just woman, so if that was their first settlement, where did all the Numen man go? I'm frankly quite afraid of that question because I don't want to think Numen woman were sold as slaves, or maybe it was just a woman migration, established their settlement and were hunted down by the Hornsent for whatever stupid religious believe. The music in game made me feel like there was always something around the corner, in terms of lore and enemies :D loved it.

I love your takes, and I don't think it actually interferes with the actual historical facts of the lore

I am happy you mentioned the bedroom veil i was thinking about that throughout my whole playthrough

Great content! Please keep up the good work:)

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Thanks, will do!

The man I have been waiting to hear

@ironmonkey349

2 күн бұрын

Hell yeah

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Much love!

After watching this video I subscribe to the idea that Lands of Shadow was something that Marika wanted to leave behind her entirely. But the thing is you can't do this, your past will hunt you. your sins will hunt you. Therefore things from Lands of Shadow were sinking into Lands and even Marika life - like her Omen kids or other aflictions.

The existence of the supressing pillar completely destroys this theory. The Shadow Lands is a physical, tangible place, just obscured by Marika's Veil. That's why it is inacessible by normal means. The death theme is recurrent because all maners of death end up there (as it is described in the gravestone on top of the supressing pillar).

I disagree with some of this effort to infer certain meanings from the word "Shadow" here. I think if it were intended, for one thing, there would be more to do with Maliketh, who is literally called her shadow. I think some of this video is going down a rabbit hole not intended by the author/s.

@AZAMA___

16 сағат бұрын

This happened here already yes, but the interpretation remains strong. We just gotta nuance these ideas ✨

Do you have any thoughts on the altered dancers dress looking very close to Marikas dress?

Thing we have to realize now is, the story IS over, and Miyazaki knows all the info we need to have the full story is here, in the game. Imo, we can't say "i think" we have enough info to form the full story picture. It's all here. We will all see soon enough.

Hadn’t considered that the shadow lands are a nightmare of marikas like we saw in bloodbourne

Everyone is acting like Marika hid Messmer as if he wasnt known as her son and the crusades had public endorsement from Lyndell

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

I don't think that has anything to do with what I said. Actually, I don't think that matters much.

@Helldragon789

2 күн бұрын

@CenteredTarnished yeah I meant to reply to someone but my brain ain't got enough wrinkles

We're all gazing at a diorama lothric plays with cracks in the ceiling, while unable to sleep. Were chasing over veneration of familial affair, where conquerers with golden hair leave a faded people. Every faith is shattered, and an empty village is bathed in gold for some fancy daydream.

This is the part of the DLC that is tripping me out the most. I thought it was a separate realm at first. But I think it’s actually a piece of real physical geology that’s just not visible to the Mainland due to the “glamour” Marika put over The Lands Between. I have a theory that the Scadu Tree is what the Erdtree actually has looked like the entire game and the Lands Between we see is the Glamorous world hidden from the “real” world of the Shadow.

There is a bunch of voices screaming/moining in pain outside of the church of elleh at night. Dunno if it means anything but I noticed it the other day.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Those screams are from the crucified people around Limbgrave! They start to scream at night. You might enjoy my Fear the Night video:)

Great video. Love your content, you are one of the 2 lore channels I always look forward to hear more of (Ive seen all of them really). About morne hero - it says he fell to the hand of Godfrey, no?

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

I think that’s right. I just thought it was an interesting parallel!

Nice point out for the dlc story. I generally watch youtube on my console. Yet for you, I had to log onto my phone and subscribe to this channel immediately. Nice video.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Much appreciated!

So hear me out... The Scadutree is supposed to be literally the "shadow" of the Erdtree. Therefore, assume that the Scadutree is where the Erdtree is in the Lands Between. It would strongly support the theory that the Shadow Realm is somewhere in the "middle" of that middle water/ocean section of the Lands Between. Coupled with the lore and visual evidence supporting this, I'd say it's hard to refute. Plus, the "cloud" in the middle could represent "shadow".

I really appreciate your work, so please accept my comments with big respect. I haven’t seen everything you’ve done, so I might be saying things you’ve already addressed. Your interpretation of the base game informed my reading of the DLC greatly. But I think I came away with a different understanding from you. So I wanted to share. I think it does tell us where we are relative to the Lands Between. There’s a tower (of Suppression?) that says it’s the center point of the Lands Between. Plus, if you look in the direction from the Divine Gate from the cloud in the center of the base map, it points to the walls of a crater. We know from the trailer that’s where the Elden Beast may have landed. If the whole world represents one person’s psychological development, I think its reasonable that the realm of shadow simply represents the shadow? Nightmare aspects, sure, but maybe still no less real a place than the base game. I do buy the nightmare leaking into the non-Shadow realm, which is why omens are omens. They’re seeping out from suppression and point to a crack in the dam. As the shadow in psychology develops in childhood, it makes sense the realm is where Marika was formed and born. The Finger Ruins appeared to me to literally be wombs. One is right next to where Marika was born and that one is dead. They both are full of slithery snake creatures that spit. The one further north is more fertile. The third one is more mystic and contains the mother of fingers, who generates an egg - and boy do they want us to notice the fingerprints. An aspect of genetic identity with an inscrutable will. In a realm with spiral columns, like genetic info. In the place where human’s animalistic features are suppressed. Miquella, with the most altruistic ideals, is represented as an eternal child. But his tree, embodying his ideals, fails, and he is unable to make himself an adult man in it. So in an attempt to develop he goes to this realm of Marika’s childhood to abandon his love and his child body and his feminine aspect. And then instead of redeeming Godwin or Millenia, he ultimately allies with might. He’s suppressing his own childhood there, feeling he must. Marika’s gestation and birth are represented there, her home village is there, and the first boss is basically a parade float. Animal nature is tamed there. Childhood is sealed there. One thing I should look up is when Messmer was born. Because he’s got red hair, so he must be Radagon’s son. But the others of Radagon and Marika’s children were born after Marika’s and Godfrey’s. In the base game, “Radagon is Marika” is a secret to be revealed. Is it possible that Messmer, and perhaps that entire realm, were suppressed because people there knew Marika had a child with her own male aspect? Speculation, but… Given a clear theme of suppression, Messmer’s red hair, and the secretive aspect of Marika/Radagon in the base game, I think it’s a good question. For instance, why does Marika not have more children with Radagon right away? Why is it such a well kept secret that he is her male aspect? It seems more well known in contrast that St. Trina is Miquella’s female aspect. Apologies if any of this is stuff you’ve covered already. And for the unorganized delivery. I’m just spitballing, and I know most of this is stuff I got from you. :-) Appreciate your work. Cheers and all the best to you.

@mattlatterell4817

2 күн бұрын

Oh, I wanted to add - Google “IFS exiles.” May be of interest to you, tarnished.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

These are all great questions and analyses! I think the reason the tower is the center is because it's the very beginning of Marika's godhood. Everything moves outward from there. The fact that it's a tower of suppression, to me, only solidifies the meaning of the Shadow Lands and what they represent not only to Marika (personally) but the LB (collectively). You bring up a good point about Radagon and Marika vs Miquella and St Trina. It's strange that most people accept St. Trina as Miquella's other self but can't believe that Marika has the same thing. I love the thing you said about the animalistic nature being sealed there. It fits well with what we see happen in Farum Azula and the LB as a whole. A further separation of our origins and evolution.

@mattlatterell4817

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished I appreciate the reply! And look forward to more of your work. I want to add also maybe to Google “Fimbriae,” in regards to Metyr. I do think you’re right btw that stories repeat, regarding Morne/Shaman Village and Renalla/Marika (I think you mentioned that before). I think that’s why Miquella’s story is so relevant to Marika’s journey. Maybe that’s totally obvious, but I see comparisons of Miquella’s compassion to Marika’s totalitarianism (or whatever) and I think it’s just very clear that the road to hell is paved with etc etc. Also I think the Count’s dialogue in Manus Metyr is very relevant to the legacy of Marika’s children. Anyway, cheers and looking forward to more.

Ah hell yeah! You make the best lore videos! Can't wait for more 🤩

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Thank you!

@ironmonkey349

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished I'm pretty sure the Shadow land's veil is the true form of the Mimic's veil power: "Marika's Mischief"

I am very big into Carl Jungs work and I thought the same thing as I played the game. Cerulean coast even says all manner of death washes up on these shores.

Bravo! I loved everything about this except the bit about the Glom Eyed Queen.

Everybody asks “where is the realm of shadow?”, but nobody ever asks “_how_ is the realm of shadow?”

funny you mention castle morne as going thru the same exact thing as shaman village in other circunsamces, because the guy there started going after revenge and it made him an unhinged maniac who attacked everyone. Kinda like marika wanted revenge for her people but she didnt stop there, she became a genocidal monster even worse than her oppresors, she could've gained independence to the shamans, freed them, forced the hornsents to comply, punished the torturers, made some examples and started to heal the land, but she didnt.

Also the Hornset race wanted to merge their victims bodies as sacrifices to make this Divine Gate to ascend to Godhood. Marika, the victim of this, managed to beat them to it. (Hence the trailer. She took the rune, went to the corpse riddled Divine Gate, and acended to Godhood.) Thus start Elden Ring

Highly speculative, not entirely followable imo. But nonetheless, wildly interesting. We, of course, know that the shadow realm is a physically real space separated from the Lands Between- Miyazaki has said so. It's also the place Marika first set foot.

the omen in the base game has nightmares when sleeping i think

Kind of a shame that we never interact with Marika directly. The closets we get is Radagon or through Melina’s “in her own words”.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Agreed. I think to get Marika's story, we have to pay attention to parallel stories.

@m33tballa

2 күн бұрын

Unless ur like me and believe Melina is a fractured piece of marikas personna 😈 then we did sorta interact with her

Where’s the lore surrounding the erdtree and the scadutree? I was excited for that but I can’t see any lore ain’t the two

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Lore crafting and making videos takes time:) those answers will come in due time

@rudydaberry122

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished that’s true man. I need answers on how the trees are related

@QuantumTelephone

2 күн бұрын

​@@rudydaberry122The scadutree is the shadow of the erdtree. It's in the title lol

I think you may be reading too far into things while ignoring the base interactions. Too many characters with agency and a few we can find both in and out of the dlc. I think it is quite literally a shadow realm, the place for things that are separate from the golden order and overshadowed by it coddled together by the powers of fickle gods. Even the lands betwixt supports this and hints there is another realm, a higher realm of things that are above the golden order that we have no idea about. I believe that is the literal point of the lands betwixt, the mid point between a higher and lower realm. With the lower realm being a world where omens had their own culture, history, religion and tree. I am willing to bet we will get a dlc where there is an order that the golden order couldn’t challenge, one so ingrained in their society that it could not be confronted or contested with.

Great analysis. Thank you.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Glad you liked it!

I can see the idea that the mentality of Marika and her shaodw are shown in the DLC. Its her home, where she was born, where she bacame a god. She learned to fear the outer gods and desired order to limit such travesties (she failed) but I think this DLC is not mental. Its been told to us it is a psychically and disconnected world that explains why Marika is the way she is. This is not a dream. This is the cold reality that her shadow was born of.

Isn't Maliketh meant to be Marika's shadow rather than the GEQ? The parallels still works because he is the bearer of destined death and is enslaved to the ego of Marika, just feel he's more fitting.

First of all i believe that as deep as this lore gets, that we as players arent meant to know everything. It would take a lot of the fun out of the story speculation, wouldn't it? Second, this game has proven to me even more that video games (at least the good ones) should be looked at as pieces of art. Interactive, Audio Visual art pieces. Thank you fromsoft for this game. For this piece of ART.

It's only difficult if you don't explore much and go up against bosses with few scadutree fragments

Midras painting of what the manse looked like has flowers that look an awful lot like the flowers at the shaman village. Do with that what you will.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Nice catch! I did not notice that.

I doubt it , godwyns death was one of the biggest tragedies that ever happened to marika yet godwyn was not part of that ''shadow''

SHE A HAS A VEIL RIGHT ABOVE WHERE SHE SLEEPS!

A lot of great insight in this video but two things really stood out to me. The first was when you brought up the feelings reflected in the NPCs, it helped me notice how dream like the area around St Trina really is and how the jagged peaks and lightning storm near Bayle reflect the anger and rage of that storyline More importantly, however, was when you spoke of how our Tarnished represents Marika’s will to confront her shadow. When Leda tells us that it was Grace or the Erdtree guiding us, it turned on a lightbulb for me. Marika did not want us confronting her Shadow, I’d have to confirm but I don’t think Grace points us to Miquella. Grace also doesn’t appear until we fell Mesmer. It feels like Marika is saying, “if you’ve come this far, finish what you started.” Excellent videos as always and can’t wait for more!

@H8KU

2 күн бұрын

Begone, demon. Stop spamming every creator's comments trying to get some subs when you care more about pushing a sick ideology than appreciating a great game.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

I think you can extended that to the demigods as well. Rykard and his area are probably the most pronounced but they all have their unique “affliction” or emotion which is reflected in their area

@avalokiteshvara113

2 күн бұрын

Grace appears well before we kill Messmer and actually points to Messmer.

The game literally tells you why that realm is harder than I will realm. The story tells you why that realm is stronger just pay attention.

Unfortunately the "Nightmares" part of the Moghwyn Palace Map description in Japanese is 悪想 which doesn't mean nightmare as in bad-dream, but more nightmare as in "Evil," or I guess more literally "Evil Thoughts/Evil Ideas."

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

But was it written in English first?

Miyazaki likes to blur the line between literal and metaphor.

Elden ring is therapy.

Great video 👍 narative you builded is a strech in my opinion but art is open to interpretation 😊 good work

The Mending Rune of the Fell Curse is what Marika thinks she deserves. #FreetheDungEater

For me, the real disappointment of this DLC is the lore. Cryptic is fine. This allows you to use your imagination and create connections, interpretations and new meanings, although... definitely subjective. The problem, when lore is deliberately made coded and flirts with the most obvious absurdity, is that the smallest detail (moreover, probably of an insignificant nature) becomes a viable source from which any form of speculation is found, then legitimized, in the same way as any other. And thus, absolutely everything takes on a significant nature. I have nothing against the principle of "leaving the viewer free to explain", but sometimes it borders on intellectual fraud and ease. What constituted the work's own identity becomes a caricature of how it wanted to be perceived. I think the basic story, as thought out by G.R.R. Martin, was all in all classic (and above all perfectly rational and so to speak "down to earth") but that the transmutation carried out by H. Miyazaki, from the basic material, was lost in the blind desire to make it cryptic . And ultimately, keep in balance both the fidelity of a simplified genesis (because it was undoubtedly requested that it be simplified in the first place in order to be able to stretch and distort it at will) and the inevitable need to add the stylistic touch that everyone expects to find in the end, does not always work perfectly. Because it becomes possible to free oneself from a certain satisfactory narrative coherence and leave the responsibility to the audience, under the guise of aesthetic choice and “freedom of interpretation”. Because, a bit like the modding community repairs and completes Bethesda games, we, the players and admirers of FromSoftware games, risk being condemned to give meaning to a work when we want nothing other than to discover the full truth, one and indivisible, like adventurers in an epic that expects only one thing from us: that we reveal its complete nature through our discoveries. It seems to me, personally, that the link between the creator of the work and his adept(s) is even stronger and more striking.

@nickb7704

2 күн бұрын

Touch fucking grass guy😂

@m.h.lockesteppe9834

2 күн бұрын

It's surrealist fantasy like Dark Souls. I don't know what you expected. In fact, I would argue that the DLC is largely explicit in its "meaning" -- to a degree that I myself found (very mildly) disappointing. Perhaps your approach is a bit myopic.

@namazu1337

2 күн бұрын

@@nickb7704 Grass is "almost" as boring as everything else, except when you accompany yourself with an entomology encyclopedia. But your remark is true, I know that I piss off most people, most of the time 🙂

@namazu1337

2 күн бұрын

@@m.h.lockesteppe9834 I really like this analogy with myopia, in your remark. I had never thought about it, but it characterizes my method of analysis rather well. Method which has no other value than that which I attach to it. But I had never thought of giving it a reliable definition. But no matter, my criticism concerns the organization of the narration, not the theme, nor the game, nor the technical aspect. Thank you for taking a minute to discuss the narrative and not, once again, to produce yet another “Argumentum ad personam” 🙂

Well its pretty easy to see that the shadow lands is the land of death for the system of life the land between uses. Its reallt just the middle of the lands between we cant see. It fits perfectly in it. With the one tower even telling us its the middle of the lands between. Its where the ancient societies of the landsbetween were from before marikas accension. We see she was last of her village and that she went on a war path to become a god just to burn them all for her memories.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

I can't tell if you agree or not but you just described a shadow

@LoopyAnh

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished it's litterally the shadow of the erdtree lol

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

@@LoopyAnh is the Erdtree an illusion? Why can some people see it and not others? Does an illusory tree cast a shadow?

@LoopyAnh

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished the erdtree is only seen by those of grace. Else it is a burnt stump of what used to be the physical tree. It once was real but only those with grace from the greater will can see the ethereal manifestation. Remember a God is who chose this to happen. Their world doesn't abide by our physics and they have different rules. The whole dlc takes place directly under where the tree would be. The map lines up. Just it was sealed off to another dimension. It's literally living in It's would be shadow. While simultaneously sealing the shadow away.

Numen might be another word for shamen....

I think shadow realm is more specifically the hades of lands between.

abandoned parts of the mind or an abandoned unbound ego very much still there

It sucks that none of the trailer cutscenes made it into the game. Its like its not standalone

Brother Dearest Lucifers gnosis is 666% correct and true. "All those hidden in the umbra shall experience illumination." Some channeled message I got from him a while back.

Is forced happiness, also recalled as the Age of Compassion, really that bad when the surrounding world is filled to the brim with Death, horror and madness? That's for you to decide. I however abide by you, my Kindly Miquella.

Marika is a numen and the black knife assassins are also numen so she wouldnt be a "lone survivor"

@formatomi

2 күн бұрын

And you can start as a numen too, signing they are not exctinct

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

As far as her village goes, we know she is the lone survivor thanks to the Minor Erdtree Incantation. "There is no one to heal". Who knows if there are other Numen out there - but that seems to add an unnecessary complexity

@Azureskies01

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished Of her village sure but there are other numen doing things in the lands between at least (as well as maybe the playable tarnished). Who knows about lands of shadow tho.

Lol, I didn't think that hashtag would link to anything. Not what I intended.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

hahaha

Why would miquella have to go to marika's nightmare to become a god?

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

In my opinion, everyone is an aspect of Marika. Much like the videos that keep coming out about this person is that person and so on. OR, this is the place where you leave your own shadow behind - creating a "perfect/ unflawed" individual. Perhaps Miquella found this out and this is why he divests himself of everything - leaving only a divine spirit.

@brett8314

2 күн бұрын

In this context I would rather think that Miquellas ascension to godhood is Marikas biggest fear and that is why it could be center of the DLC.

The land it's literally in the shadow of the erdtree. There's several description about it. There is even scadu altus (shadow altus). There's no need to mess up this straightforward fact

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

I'm simply providing the definition of the shadow. Also, is the erdtree real or an illusion? How would an illusory tree cast a shadow?

@pmas4536

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished Shadow: a dark area or shape produced by a body coming between rays of light and a surface. "trees cast long shadows" And, as i said, there is scadu altus which is quite explanatory on its own

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

@@pmas4536 lol I know what a shadow is. I’m asking if you subscribe to the idea that the Erdtree and/or Minor Erdtrees are illusionary - as many people do. I’m curious how that theory can make sense in a literal sense is all.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

@@pmas4536 also, there are shadow bound beast within the game that aren’t literal shadows casts by their empyrean. Why do you think this is so different? They share the same title

@pmas4536

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished no i'm not, this is pure tinfoil speculation

Creator: Has dualism in plot, maybe also overly adds darkness and shadow in some symbolic way they want you to tease out. Jung Enthusiasts: "JUNGGGGGGG!!!! SHADOW!!!!!! ARCHETYPES!!!! SYNCHRONICITY!!!! PERSONA!!!!! ANIMUS!!!!!!!" lmfao I'm just teasing. 🤣🤣 I've probably spent too much time in the Jungian side of KZread lol. I'm very fond of Jungian framework(s), I also tend to be fond of those drawn to it all as well... Honestly yet to meet a Jungian that rubbed me the wrong way and that really says something (it's bound to happen pretty soon at this rate). I don't treat his work as a bible, but I do treat it as one of humanity's next best leads to getting closer to a cohesive explanatory framework of just wtf is going on. It is instrumental and dare I say fundamental to attempt to understand and engage. In the case of much fiction, I think that even if author's did not consciously intend for things to line up or fit into particular interpretations, a lot of times....Coincidentally....They still do. Cheers to a great DLC!!! 🥂

If the shadow realm is something of fear. Than what are your thoughts about the frenzied flame? I'm on a personal search for an understanding of it's origins.

@oblivionoathkeeper017

2 күн бұрын

Any theories is good enough to me

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

It seems like the FF is a direct response to a horrific event that breaks the person. For example, Vyke's maiden gets killed and he turns to frenzy. Midra's child dies (presumably), his wife is dead and he tries to endure it but he eventually can't take it any more a succumbs to frenzy. I think it's very similar to madness from Bloodborne. It seems to happen when something happens that your mind can't comprehend and snaps. You might like my Miquella the Healer video as I talk about it in there as well.

@oblivionoathkeeper017

2 күн бұрын

Ah!😮 Thanks

we should think shadow in the context of the game. in the game we say“ maliketh is marika‘s shadow”，is there any other word to describe there relationship？ i think “maliketh is marika’s servant” would be close，i know servant can't describe the whole ralationship but definitely one aspect of the relationship. so i think the shadow realm functions as “maliketh”

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

It’s a fine line but Maliketh is actually her ShadowBOUND beast - not her shadow. What he bounds/ seals within himself is her personal shadow aka Destined Death. I often use the analogy of a bank vault. Maliketh is the vault- what’s inside is the shadow.

@candideoptimism8775

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnishedthen why is Blaidd Ranni’s shadow if he isn’t sealing anything away? and why don’t Malenia or Miquella have shadows?

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

@@candideoptimism8775 he is sealing something away. Bliadd is warm, kind and loyal- the opposite of the cold Ranni. Shadows don’t have to be negative although they usually are. For example a person in power might suppress something such as compassion or warmth because it’s a “weaker” emotion. I believe Malenia is Miquella’s shadowBB. The opposite of him lives within her. Bliadd and Blade sound awfully similar- don’t you think

@xx-fw1ej

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished in the Japanese text it says“影従の獣”literal translation “beast of shadow servant”. there is this hierarchical relationship between them，sealing the death rune is just A thing that marika asks maliketh to do，not THE thing.if marika gives the word he will basically do anything. it's interesting people call this place shadow realm，it's the place eldtree was born and marika’s hometown，it should be superior than other places，but now it's the opposite. i think this place must have a different name in the past，but marika hated what happened here，so out of contempt she called this place shadow（to show her superiority），and as time goes by，shadow replaced the real name

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

@@xx-fw1ej I agree. Do you think there is even more within the "world" lands that we are not able to see or is it made up solely of the LB and Shadow Lands?

Nah , fear would win.

Wait who’s saying the lore is confusing? I was able to find the connections by just exploring. God people really are lazy, and want stuff spoon fed to them.

Cool theory, but I think your thinking too deep into this. There is a tower in the DLC that states that it is the center of the lands between. The area we are in is veiled so that we cannot see into the land of shadow or out of it. I wonder if the devine towers are holding the veils?

Your explanation of what shadow is. Is very similar to persona shadows)

Think of it this way.. The Shadow Lands is a literal place that vanished before our eyes the moment the Erdtree birthed and casted a shadow. It's like if I had a flash light in pitch black. Think of pitch black as a place, The Abyss. But when I shine my light, we see a land. A place. The Shadow Lands are a place where anything the Erdtree does not want goes to. It's basically a place of the undead or just.. the dead.

Too much yapping of nonsense

I’m sorry but this video and take on the lore is some hot garbage. Way to completely disregard the things we do know in order to make this weirdly bad theory seem interesting. We know the realm of shadows is a physical place that existed before Marika. We know it’s in the center of the lands between. There are literally civilizations already established in the realm of shadows. Like you know, the hornsent. Which happens to be the curse that is afflicting Mohg, which is why Miquella uses Mohg’s blood to enter the realm. I mean, dude… how’s the arm from all of that major reaching. This video feels like when people try to interpret a rap line and people joke that the artist didn’t even know that’s what it meant. Yea, this is that. Like my god…

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

Of course it’s a physical place….. but what does it mean that it’s veiled? What does it mean that it’s called the Shadow Realm? I didn’t disregard any of this- just providing a different explanation that you didn’t like. That’s cool. But don’t manipulate what I’m saying because you don’t like it. We don’t even know what the Erdtree is. Some people can see it, others not. If the minor erdtrees are illusions, does that mean the Erdtree is? If so, how does it cast a physical shadow? By being so definitive, you are disregarding the questions that are still unknown.

@ndoe5219

2 күн бұрын

@@CenteredTarnished Hidetaka Miyazaki: "In terms of setting and themes, it technically occupies the same space as the Lands Between, the same universe. But due to something story related that we won't reveal today, this has become physically disconnected, and you'll travel to the Shadow of the Erdtree land as a separate place." You’re the only one here doing the manipulation here to fit your theory. Which is such an overreach. We don’t know why it’s veiled in shadow? We do, Marika hid the place. Ever heard of the mimic veil, aka Marikas Mischief. An item that hides the appearance of the user… yea. We also know Marika loved hiding things away. We know one of the reasons she hide the shadow realm with a veil, is so others could not find it and the divine tower. So she could remain in power, unchallenged by others who could also ascend the way she did. The Erdtree is a physical tree, what not everyone can see is the golden grace that comes off the tree. How can you burn and imaginary tree with very real fire? Even your counter argument wasn’t even right. Like we have items that are literally born from the sap of the Erdtree. Physical items. How would an imaginary tree make physical items? This whole psychology take is just an overreach. Simple as that.

@CenteredTarnished

2 күн бұрын

@@ndoe5219 dude, you are assuming soooo much here. You understand the universe of Elden Ring? Really? What are the lands between? Why does the map change with events like the shattering? What are Outer Gods? Who is Radagon? Who was the GEQ? Why is 1 person more than one person? If we truly understood the universe, we wouldn't be having these questions. The mimic veil just turns you into a pot lol. It doesn't suppress your existence. If people can't see the gold around the Erdtree, then it's not the Erdtree - it's just a tree. She literally "sacrifices" her children that don't become something of themselves. "In Marika's own words. Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..." She literally tells her children to become a GOD - she doesn't fear it, she welcomes that. In fact, she pushes them to that. Do you believe that when you partake in communion that you are literally drinking the blood of Christ? The Suppressing Pilar says its the very center of the Lands Between where all manner of death washes up, only to be suppressed. You will never find the word "suppression" in the literal definition of a shadow cast by an object - but you will find it everywhere in the psychological definition. Almost every rebuttal you had was incorrect. If you don't like the psychological analysis, then just watch everyone else - there is an unlimited amount of lore video's out there that don't take this approach.

I cant help but be held with a question of "why?". We destroyed everyone, murdered them. Anyone and anything to do with, not only Marika, but the Lands Between as well. We slaughtered Marikas children, her alter ego, we destroyed the Elden Beast, destroyed elder gods....why? What did we accomplish in the end? Whos Will was done...and what is left to Lord over? Lastly...does this mean that Marika was not a Numen?

Cool, but you literally didn't explain anything.

@ThisIsYourGodNow

14 сағат бұрын

he did youre just stupid

Okay Jung lol

so elden Ring = persona cool