Twinks contribute to the invasion arms race that ruins the invasion system. FromSoft accelerated the arms race by forcing every natural invasion to be at least a 2v1 and by lowering the player limit to 4. You have a legit invader Vs a legit host. Legit invader will probably win since invaders tend to be a little more skilled than PvErs. Then you get a legit invader Vs a legit host and his legit phantom or blue. It’s a much closer fight now. After that, it’s a legit invader Vs a legit host and their overleveled phantom. This is insanely common in Elden Ring, and a legit invader has little to no actual way of overcoming an overleveled phantom if they’re using legit early/mid-game gear. Overleveled phantoms have unscaled defenses, higher damage, more healing resources, better healing resources, more offensive options, and are with another player (the host). On top of that, a blue can still come in and support the host and phantom, too. Blues are no longer “protectors of the weak” that even the odds in an invasion, they’re effectively stupid bullies contributing to the problem who aren’t even aware of the problem. Now the invader needs a way to level the playing field against overleveled phantoms, so what does the invader do? He twinks. Now he’s got a much better shot at beating that overleveled phantom. But the moment a twinked invader matches up against a legit host or a legit host with a legit phantom, it’s gonna be an easy landslide victory for the invader. Now those legit hosts/phantoms will need a way to overcome the twinked invaders, and they’ll either overlevel the phantom, they’ll Twink too, or a mixture of both. So now you’ve got a twinked invader Vs a twinked host and an overleveled phantom. Host already has an advantage on his own due to uncapped healing resources, now the invader is at a major disadvantage no matter how you look at it. And if you happen to be a legit invader facing a Twink and an overleveled phantom? Good luck keeping your dignity and your sanity in this failure of an invasion system. This arms race existed in DS3, but wasn’t as bad as it is in Elden Ring because you could always invade a solo host. So if you happened to get a bad invasion, you can brush it off an match against a more fair/balanced matchup. You could also get another invader as support in DS3, too. In Elden Ring, you’re realistically never gonna get another invader to help you unless the opponent is intentionally allowing you to with the Taunter’s Tongue. There were also many more legit players that you could match with, and overleveled (not unscaled) phantoms in DS3 were more manageable. I’m Elden Ring, FromSoft made the genius decision to remove solo invasions, basically forcing all invaders to optimize if they ever want to win. So after over a year of Elden Ring being out, the only invaders you really have anymore are the skilled Twinks or the really skilled but rare legit players. It’s really hard for your average player to get into Elden Ring invasions because of this crappy recipe From threw together. The only way From can really fix it is by actually balancing overleveled phantoms (which are “downscaled” but not enough). Make them weaker than hosts, if they’ve gotten to that high of a level, they should be good enough to handle themselves. Give specific defense brackets at certain level breakpoints if From can’t figure out how to lower base defenses. Make their damage equal or less than that of the host. Then they’ll actually be balanced. They still have more heals, they still have better heals, and they still have more gear. That’s balanced. Add the ability to always have another invader or increase the player limit to 5 or 6. With those 2 fixes, twinking is no longer a “necessary evil” and now is actually something people can look down on.

@isaihinojos3028

3 ай бұрын

Yup if a phantom is higher than the allowed multiplayer formula they should be downscaled to the host's hp/defenses, they can keep all the spells and weapons

@mattiasxxxx7096

3 ай бұрын

U Write this like overlvl‘d Phantoms Are impossible to kill, but specially in this meta they easier to kill, before nerf I would always go dual GS on overlvl‘d Phantom’s and kill via jumping Attack or crouch poke but now with all those ashes that truecombo into themselves u just need one of those or use anything with high burst dmg for range punish on cast and having a misericorde became extremely important for me because I can just backstab them if they wanna cast one of there plenty buffs or heals and they still only have about ~2k+ Hp

@Rexis102

3 ай бұрын

@@mattiasxxxx7096 I think we play at vastly different levels. An overleveled at RL80 isn’t much of an issue. An overleveled at RL10 is effectively impossible unless you bring some bullshit like Stormhawk, Dragon Halberd, Flaming Strike (at that early in the game is definitely OP) or late game craftables. Just because there are broken tools to deal with something doesn’t mean all of those things are balanced. All of them need tuning, especially overleveled phantoms.

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

Best comment here, approved. Fromsoft needs to make the matchmaking system more fair and balanced. There are various possible solutions.

@mattiasxxxx7096

3 ай бұрын

@@Rexis102 Yea I No longer invade at RL10, only when I was lvl‘ing up, but at that lvl are there even any good Hosts and ofc pvp at Rl10 is unbalanced af, because someone 10 lvl‘s higher or lower could get matchdup with eachother , which is a huge difference at that lvl, u could use grafted sword ash or +10 stat physik, the scoreseals and easily get the upperhand with gear u get 1h into the game

idk man, i think twinks can be fine, but pulling out sleep/rot pots against starting players is nothing short of disgusting to me

@TrueSirShleepy

3 ай бұрын

I feel you on that. Limgrave players cant heal rot at all. Super unfair to use it.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Hey, no argument there. Anything like that really falls under the griefing category for me and I just want people to embrace that it's not going to change and that's not necessarily the worst thing in the world. People can show up and absolutely ruin you, no skill required. My cope is just trying to encourage people to learn from the experience, especially if it's a very shitty one. These games offer very unique play in so many categories and I want to embrace all of them, even when they're poorly balanced.

@zawarudo8991

3 ай бұрын

If I see an overlevelled babysitter = the host get‘s rot The host uses dropped twink gear/rot breath = the host get‘s rot It‘s that simple.

@dislikebutton9571

3 ай бұрын

@@zawarudo8991Honestly you are doing a service to the community, punishing hosts for ruining their own playthrough. o7

@artoriasoftheabyss2907

3 ай бұрын

@@zawarudo8991 People playing a game with their friend, therefore you grief them. The host has built to counter players like you, therefore you get mad and grief them. You objectively just want to punch down on players worse than you. You want to worsen their experience objectivlely with that mindset.

It's better than a Bear problem.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

"Elden Ring PVP: Are Bears a Problem?" and then it's just 6 minutes of me screaming getting mauled by rune bears.

@TheAzul_Indigo

3 ай бұрын

Rune bears ARE a problem. I will twink through the entire game but I REFUSE to go anywhere near a rune bear.

@RayRayRayRayRayRay

3 ай бұрын

Or an otter problem

@cowspoopmagic

3 ай бұрын

@@emotionaljonxvx I'd watch that

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

Bears aren't even tough enemies. They're only tough for players who haven't learned yet that good positioning wins fights.

One of the best memories of souls is just playing together with my friends, when suddenly we get invaded by a gigatwink on High Wall, start of the game. He is nigh immortal, has so much resources and even great armor, but we manage to keep him from the host by utilizing some stairs. I fall first, but since we're friends on vc I get resummoned, as a cleric I heal the party. This invader has maximum amount of estus and everything but we manage to whittle him down, resummoning and cleric heal as needed. We even get him to use a divine blessing! Can you imagine? So we fight some more, keep him in the stairs, and through a brilliant manouver by one of us we manage to get him stuck in the meatgrinder, still in the stairs! Three of us just wailing on him, and he falls at last. Without a word spoken, we all do point down in sync as he dies. He trashtalks on our steam profiles, accusing of gank. We trashtalk back, mocking him for the divine blessing. I suspect this is the kinda sadist twink that would revel in misery, but in truth I'm not angry at all at this guy. He felt like a boss we all needed to strategize to take down in a gruelling battle of attrition.

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

If you really appreciated this gigatwink so much, why did you point down at him? If I appreciate someone, I will cheer for them, I'll clap for them, I'll bow to them. I'll certainly never point down at them. That's a huge contradiction and I hope you're aware of it.

@PedroKing19

3 ай бұрын

@@ETBrooD The GigaTwink was the bad guy in this scenario, at least to me. In a hard fought battle against unfair odds I can't blame anybody for being a little bm.

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

@@PedroKing19 Sure, but the logic still doesn't check out. If a fight results in one of the most fun experiences I've ever had in a game, why would I show disrespect after the fight?

@Nen_niN

2 ай бұрын

​@@ETBrooD You can't just tell me something I do is a contradiction without understanding the situation. No, you don't understand me or anything I do just because you played the same game I did 8 years ago, or because we both share an affinity for a certain mechanic in this game. Instead of taking on an accusatory tone, try being inquisitive, or at the very least just neutral. This is of course presupposing you aren't just here to call me out without heed. Despite my better judgement I will engage you in good faith, here's my attempt at providing some extra context or new perspectives on the situation: To be fair, the guy _was_ a total jerk. Only there to stomp newbies, and he'd no doubt point down as well even though this is what he came for. I didn't like him in the moment, the appreciation is a product of remeniscing. It wasn't even necessarily about the guy, but moreso what we, my friends and I, had to do to get him down, our shared antagonsim for him. But even after all this, I don't think a point down or a dung pie or any such disrespect of someone is necessarily a sign of non-appreciation. It's all an extension of the game. If I met him in real life I hope we could share a beer and laugh at the situation, but one must suspend niceties for the sake of the game. After all, there would be no invasion without wanton agression, and we could not meet his violence without malice of our own. Well, even if you disagree with the sentiment I hope you can at least see my stance on this.

@TheRuneCollector

8 күн бұрын

@@ETBrooDyou are wrong

Ds3 pvp was the most fun with blue and purple invaders. Don't care for pvp in elden ring at all, too much running.

@SuBxDon

3 ай бұрын

Not from my pov. Just play aggressive and get good

@MistaFahrenheit

3 ай бұрын

Darkroot forest was the peak of fromsoft pvp. Change my mind.

@deathtrap_99derp41

2 ай бұрын

I always went mad spirit or orang

@Garl_Vinland

7 күн бұрын

Too chaotic, mages just couldn’t work in that environment

@fatalishuntinghorn

6 күн бұрын

Ds3 pvp is whoever is more defensive wins at least in a 1vs1 that really isn't fun

I think the real issue with so-called twinking in Elden Ring isn't that people bring late game gear to lower levels, it's just that there are certain pieces of gear that are super busted at all ranges. About a year ago I made a video about how twinking isn't the issue in Elden Ring as much as general balance and how Fromsoft decided to gate certain pieces of content. I pointed to stuff like the Dragon Halberd that's been capable of one shotting vigor lenient hosts since launch, or how they put the best status effect in the game on a rapier of all weapons, or just everything surrounding rot pots / consumables in general. To this day I consistently get comments from people who completely missed the point, either still yelling about how anyone who is a twink is a cheater and a legitimately bad person IRL, or on the opposite end of the spectrum defending a playtstyle that just makes absolutely everyone involved miserable. I think in general people's brains are too poisoned from how twinks used to be, because in Elden Ring they really aren't a problem like they have been in the past, and like you said there's something so incredibly special about making a level specific character in a Fromsoftware game. Anyways, just wanted to say that this is really an excellent video, been really enjoying your thoughts on a lot of general Elden Ring topics as of late.

@miguelnascimento2847

3 ай бұрын

Exactly! Dragon Halberd at low levels is as abusive as double naginatas at meta level for example. FS actually unintentionally created a moral and practical reason to twink wich is the introduction of overleveled phantoms. People can't really complain about twinking since overleveled phantoms are basicly that but also get to keep their levels. If twinking is a problem for someone then overleveled are that problem + more and should be a priority, not twinks

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

Twinks in Elden Ring are a HUGE problem. If you're playing the game normally and a twink invades you and your friend, you're dunzo. It's game over. And it absolutely sucks, there's no fun to be had whatsoever. And they can just invade you again soon after because you're still in the same zone. I'm actually considering doing a taunter's tongue solo playthrough to demonstrate how common twink invaders are.

@miguelnascimento2847

3 ай бұрын

@@ETBrooD it's not game over, I'd argue a host and a phantom still have the advantage over a twink

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

@@miguelnascimento2847 Not if the host and phantom are normal players. I've seen what happens plenty of times, they're dunzo. They have a 10% chance of winning if they're lucky, 0% if not.

@miguelnascimento2847

3 ай бұрын

@@ETBrooD idk what you mean by normal players but any slightly decent group can for sure go against 1 opponent

When I decided to try and engage in multiplayer in this game on my third run (I played completely offline on first run and only summoned a handful times on my second one), my first invasion ended up being such a rancid experience for me. I started as a deprived, got a broadsword and some clothes with all the runes I had early on, then went back to the first step to try summoning without so much as having afforded a level up yet. I summoned a phantom who seemed to be even newer than me, they were also deprived but still rolling with only the starting gear, and they also made more mistakes and took a lot of damage. When the twink invader showed up, my summon died instantly and I was left to fight them alone. I had four flasks, while having to deal with the invader poisoning me and repeatedly switching weapons for mix ups and ranged attacks. I did a fairly decent job imo since we fought for several minutes and I was able to count the invader chugging up to five times, while dealing with poison (I had only one bolus at that point, i used it and then he procced it again). It was frustrating and miserable, I didn't even have any way of catching them off guard because I only had my default square off and I had never used a straightsword in my two previous runs, let alone in a multiplayer context. At the end he pointed down as though he pulled off a difficult feat by killing me even though I only had four flasks that didn't even heal my entire health. Ever since, I've hated that I can't be invaded unless I summon. I didn't want to wade super deep into multiplayer, I just enjoyed having encounters in ds3 that ranged from playful, to more proper duels, to cancer. In Elden Ring, my experience has made me feel as if invaders are so much more predisposed to being assholes because they do tend to deal with ganks and being outnumbered. It didn't put me off it entirely, but I ended up not summoning until I leveled up more and had options, because fuck dealing with early game Elden Ring twinks. It's annoying and miserable and I hate people who do it. I'll stick to invading and being invaded at higher levels.

@penrilfake

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, your experience is pretty much the rule in low brackets. A friend and I started characters together, and we had a dude in castle morn using the st Trina's sword and sleep pots. He even tried to bait us into aggroing all the misbegottens in the dead body pile lmao. We ended up dealing with him bc I invade a lot so I'm not bad at pvp, but I was a bit surprised at how someone was invading the lvl 20/+2 bracket with those tools, and also a fuckton of flasks. It's quite scummy. At least the lvl 50+ bracket is pretty fun.

@newwick

3 ай бұрын

yep, the first invasion I got in elden ring was a twink. Me and my friend were playing as normal new characters (not my first character, I made a new one to run the game with him and actually have fun with my friend instead of being overlevelled and trivializing the pve), but the dude who invaded us came with a the scarlet rot rapier with poison infusion, I remember him barely landing a hit on me but due to the latency's "ghost hits" through my rolls he was able to proc both his poison and scarlet rot on me, then he just run away like a coward and waited for us to die by it. we literally stopped fighting after he procced the poison + rot in both of us bc he refused to engage with us, while also having more estus flasks than both me and my friend (or at least just me bc of the halved flasks, I dont remember how many times he healed). Absolute cancer, no wonder my friends only play exclusively in seamless co op since you cant get invaded there.

Twinks irl is where it's really at.

@gauss2247

17 күн бұрын

twinks in souls games: ☹ twinks irl: 😍

@dirt_xo

14 күн бұрын

Femboys

@jeeBisOkay

11 күн бұрын

MY BODY IS A MACHINE THAT TURNS TWINKS INTO LESBIANS

@jeeBisOkay

11 күн бұрын

my body is a machine that turns twinks into lesbians

@jeeBisOkay

11 күн бұрын

my body is a machine that turns twinks into transbians

Without the context of souls invasions that title is pretty funky.

its not about catering to new players. The simple fact is that it's not fun to invade, it's not fun to be invaded, it's not fun to use taunters tongue and it's not fun to try and play co op. With co op the problem isn't even really the invaders. I could deal with a twink joining and killing us it's no big deal except for the fact that in ER it's gonna kick me out of my friends game then we have to spend 5 minutes setting it back up and loading and then another twink is going to instantly join. If you just respawned like normal and stayed connected to your friend it would solve a lot of the problems.

@Blandified

58 минут бұрын

Seamless coop? I just started playing and it’s great

This is well done, but all I can think about when you say twinks are tiny gay guys

@doesfireburn8532

3 ай бұрын

you are probably not even wrong about that

@RayRayRayRayRayRay

3 ай бұрын

​@@doesfireburn8532No, as in the term twink is literally used in the gay community to describe skinny gay guys

@doesfireburn8532

3 ай бұрын

@@RayRayRayRayRayRay that was a joke but apparently it went over your head

@RayRayRayRayRayRay

3 ай бұрын

@@doesfireburn8532 Oh, yeah it went over my head lmao

@doesfireburn8532

3 ай бұрын

@@RayRayRayRayRayRay happens to the best of us lol

Jon I've been watching souls content for probably 6 or 7 years now, and I want you to know your recent videos, and this one in particular, are my favorite souls related videos anyone has produced! (although Saint Riots Powerful Poking Partizan video sits at a comfortable tie for first lol, his anguished howl at the end obliterates me every time) You are one of startlingly few people I've encountered who really seems to fully understand what these games are about and how to enjoy them for what they are, for better and worse, without reservation. It's so refreshing. So many people who spend time with this game become frustrated with it, which only makes sense considering the game does little but throw conflict at you -- but, that's the point! This is a game with friction, as you aptly put it, it wouldn't be the same without that. As a consequence, the most important stat for a good time in Elden Ring is an IRL stat: Humility. So please, please maintain this wonderful mindset of yours and continue to share it as fully as you can! This is the kind of insight and perspective the community desperately needs! In fact if I might make a suggestion, when eventually you feel you've covered most of what you want to, I would simply love to see a long Elden Ring PVP difficulty summary video from you, where you reflect on the main takeaways of your videos on the topic and tell us what you think and feel about it as a whole. And in the meantime, I'd love to hear more on your personal code of ethics! One invader to another, one person to another; you have my sincere respect Jon. Thanks for the videos!

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

That's high praise! Saint is actually the guy that helped me get acclimated to invasions in Dark Souls 3. His learn to invade videos and how he made builds that shirked meta trends were really eye-opening for how I approach PVP. I'm gonna keep on keepin' on as long as people will have me, thanks for the very, very kind words!

I like twinks, both in game and irl, but like a miniboss, something to make players experience the PvP in a different way

Fromsoft will never be able to fully prevent twinking. People will always figure out ways to abuse the mechanics. Its just part of the experience at this point. As a souls vet with tons of hours in both pve and pvp, it can be extremely frustrating when you are invaded by a twink, and despite clearly being more skilled, they are hard carried by their gear. If you are using an honest build, often times you have to land 10 hits to do the same amount of damage as 2-3 hits from the invader. Couple that with the invader having maximum estus and victory is essentially futile. This unfortunately can drive new players away from trying pvp altogether, since they see it as unfair (which it is in these circumstances)

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Honestly, I do wish they'd just pay more attention to the balance of the game at all levels. I don't need invasions to be fair or to not have access to good gear, I just want the game to be more palatable at every stage of the experience instead of leaving the door wide open for anyone with a mind for exploitation. I love twinks at their best and I embrace them at their worst, but I wouldn't complain if FromSoft wanted to do more to narrow the gap.

@ianwilliams2632

3 ай бұрын

"If you are using an honest build, often times you have to land 10 hits to do the same amount of damage as 2-3 hits from the invader." My problem with this critique is that it's basically the Elden Ring experience anyway, with bosses at basically all levels. Invaders are just another "boss" to learn to get around. Or you die, run back from bonfire/grace, get souls/runes, and off you go again. The inconvenience is way too hyped up. It's just a game really.

@yikes6758

3 ай бұрын

@@ianwilliams2632 bosses create predictable openings for counter-attacks. Player strategy is heavily gear-dependent and easily adjusted to player habits. a twink invader will also often have tools to force the host to approach while lower-level hosts tend to not have many spells or ranged options that are at all threatening. They're not bosses, they're bullies

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

Twinking can definitely be prevented. If you win several invasions in a row, you should get matched with stronger hosts. Same the other way around.

@Freshomania

14 күн бұрын

@@ETBrooD people would just invade and insta die a few times on purpose to get back to the easy targets

A big problem that weapon level matchmaking has is it doesn't take into account if you ever intend to use the weapon, or if you even can use it in the first place. I remember when DS1 got remastered they added weapon matchmaking and it fixed the pyromancy issue, but made it so if you get lucky and get a black knight weapon drop it'll shoot you up a matchmaking bracket even if you didn't have the stats to use the weapon.

The broader problem in Elden Ring's multiplayer isn't new, and I think it does a disservice to the issue to talk about Elden Ring in isolation, or even just limited to Souls games. Elden Ring is just an insanely easy game to grief in, full stop.

I invade, and i have twinked before in DS3. Twinking is the invader's version of ganking. They are equally disgusting and boring. I was running on a new character in stormveille, and invader with dual vykes and rot pots annhilated my summons in seconds. I held my own to an extended period because he was just a bad player with OP gear for that lvl. I almost had him because of a surprise parry from my rapier, but the damage wasn't enough to finish him off. As a twink he had more flasks and more effectiveness healing per chug. If a new player goes through that experience they won't be thinking, thats cool i want to be like him. Their thought would be that's bullshit cuz it is. I don't mind twinking or ganking, they're all just part of a whacky multiplayer game. They've never been fair games, but doesnt change the fact that these practices are boring and scummy.

@Crit-Multiplier

3 ай бұрын

WHICH IS WHY THEY EXIST. and they willalways be in these games. bc myasaki and his team know its not about fairness all the fcking time. the world, or other inhabitants of it can be really freaking mean sometimes. to such an extend that there is literally nothing you can do go face them. UNLESS you use the same things against them. you need to start understanding the rules here..

@penrilfake

3 ай бұрын

​@@Crit-Multiplier don't justify bad sportsmanship as if it was part of the game's design. Twinking was 100% not part of the vision of past games, and that's why each consequent game has had measures put in to avoid it or quell it. Ganking is equally repulsive, but they just missed the mark with the design of invasion systems in ER. Pretty sure their next entry will attempt to deviate from the current systems

@James-me4zs

3 ай бұрын

Was the invader named kudesune or sth? I think I also encountered him.

@manab787

3 ай бұрын

@@James-me4zs I don't remember the maidenless

@February__

3 ай бұрын

"Twinking is the invader's version of ganking. They are equally disgusting and boring."" this It's almost similar to smurfing in other competitive games that you can smurf in. It's just cringe. I can admit it is nuanced though, like the video goes over

jon i recently stumbled onto your content and i wanted to say keep up the good work, you deserve more views and subs.

Before watching, just wanting to leave my brief thought: I have a somewhat low level character who is a Soldier of Godrick cosplay. I mostly show up and try to befriend hosts and show them hidden secrets in the areas if they're kind to me. I primarily use fists/greatsword type weapons to fit the cosplay, but I have a much more powerful set of weapons/items I use if the hosts/summons are being really toxic. I think it's good to be prepared to face a 3v1 made up of overleveled phantoms and endgame equipment, but to restrict yourself when facing actually newbies.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

I love that sort of play and I love that people can do all sorts of goofy things with invading. This video is really about people's negative perceptions of twinking and how it doesn't have to be a bad thing even at its worst. Even when it's absolute annihilation, there is something to take away from the experience. It's all subjective, but I really want to give folks perspective on just how interesting every part of these games can be.

@beckerscantbechoosers6768

3 ай бұрын

@@emotionaljonxvx I honestly align with the thought that as long as you're not actually being mean (send hateful messages, pointing down/t bagging, acting better than thou because you beat someone at a game) any tactic is fine. All we lose by dying in game is a little bit of wasted time (unless you have reached endgame and accidentally invade original Leyndell and get killed. In that case your runes are lost forever unless you switch to ng+)

@beckerscantbechoosers6768

3 ай бұрын

And I know you know this and you're a good force for our community. I'm just putting my thoughts in the forum. :)

Honestly i dont think the original idea of a Twink exists anymore, now its just... optimized builds for invasions.

"I am no stranger to pity or mercy, but I don't invade to do people favors. I invade to fight, I invade to kill, so I'll fight and I'll kill whomever I find." This sounds like something you'd hear in a movie

Yes! You made the Twinking video!

Great essay! Digging your channel, man. Subscribed.

I love your narrative style in every video, it’s pretty cool! Looking forward to more

Great video as always. Nothing here I really disagree with. I do think a potential solution could be to make a level cap, at like 100 and change invasions range back to infinity up. I’m usually at 60, arguably twinking, but if 100 is the cap I’d just play there and I think most people would because most people would just be at that level. There would be some problems and twinking would still happen but I’m pretty sure it would be drastically cut it back. Also “toddler power monsters” lmao,I’m adding that to my rotation of insults

To me it's super dumb when people complain about twinks only wanting to crush noobs, if someone really only wants to crush noobs, they'll just invite two friends and activate taunters tongue.

@Garl_Vinland

7 күн бұрын

Difference between being molested and luring a mollester into an alley

@Turbo-DF

4 сағат бұрын

Bro be quiet it's the same thing you just want to crush noobs but lie to yourself that you're not having a massive advantage over them because you're solo

What level do you do invasions at? I’ve been doing RL 30 invasions but idk how much higher I should go

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

In the video the stats are in the thumbnail, level 10 with +3/+1 weapons. There are invasions at pretty much any level provided your weapon upgrade is properly matched. From my experience, the higher level you get, the more intense invasions will be.

I don't think there is a debate tbh. Since invasions are 2v1 to 3v1 in almost every case, twinking is fine. I have like 100 hours of invasions with my twink character on ER, and from the experience I have, most of the invasions are against an overlevel phantom and a twink host. When I am matched with a true pve host who has basic equipement, I kill the phantoms and have a fair play weapon in my bag to fight the host. The only thing I don't do is using Cheat engine or a friend to give me stuff. If I want an item, I go get it solo, and I think that's what every player who want to twink should do.

Very eloquent and compelling, fellow bad redman. 👍 Great video.

Each time i watch a video about this topic, it always boil down to : 1- A comparison to previous souls games (usually favoring ER) 2- A statement that the game works as intended (usually followed by a "suck it up kind of argument) Theses two do not mean the game is perfect and without flaws. It can still be improved and I think we should discuss it.

Twinking, at its worst, is pretty cancer to deal with to be honest. I can absolutely see how a new player would think it's bullshit (it is). An unbalanced game however is, ironically, pretty fun. But it's a spectrum, if it's too cancer it very very quickly goes from fun to frustrating and boring. Elden Ring could have done more to limit the degree to which you can twink. If you are a host in limgrave, against a proper twink, you stand very little chance. I have started a 2v2 taunter's tongue PvE playthrough recently in preperation for the DLC. One thing I did is I gave myself 99 of every bolus because one thing that's really boring, annoying and obnoxious is rot and other status effects. I simply refuse to lose to a shitter because he rotted me. Otherwise, it's a completely, honest playthrough (aside from me pretty much dunking on all the invaders because I don't shower). On the flip side, I wish you talked more about the downscaling in this game. You mentioned how the multiplayer system pretty much transfered as is from DS3, but that's not entirely true. The downscaling in Elden Ring is utterly ridiculous. I don't know if this game uses the same equation as DS3 or not, but the result is definitely much worse than in DS3. In Elden Ring, """"downscaled"""" phantoms are more cancer than any twink could ever dream of being. They pretty much keep their defences, they keep their status buildup (which is why an overleveled yellow procs any status in 2 hits), their damage is still very high and their mana bar practically doesn't get cut down much at all. Invaders right now are pretty much forced to min/max the fuck out of their build to even have a chance of overcoming the overleveled phantoms. I tried invading on my second playthrough as I was going through the game and the phantom would take damn near 15 hits to kill, while he killed me in 2. And since this is L2 Ring, they get to spam to their heart's desire (mages too). Fromsoft could have done much more to prevent this state of things, but here we are.

@TheSilvantor

3 ай бұрын

Oh and I also cheated in a serpent hunter for some specific gamers who need the chainsaw therapy.

I think the difference in perspective on twinking depends on the perspective we’re discussing from. No I’m not talking the host’s viewpoint vs the invader’s - I’m talking about individualized perspective vs community perspective. Twinking is a tragedy of the commons issue. Without any external forces affecting the outcome, the individuals all end up doing the same thing at the expense of the larger community. In this situation, it isn’t shepherds overgrazing, it’s players accruing disgusting amounts of power using samey gear and samey builds to samey results, and the larger community suffering the effects of those players’ tactics. Whether we agree on a definition of twinking, whether we agree it’s even a big issue, the results are pretty plain. It *is* harmful to the experience, and while I think complaints can get overblown (the same way all complaints about invasions can get overblown), I don’t think it’s a stretch that we’ve taken a big big step back from DS3. (And twinking was still p gross in that game too!) Newer players get the worst experience of all, and the inevitable result is more and more of them turning away from the game, or mirroring that same hostility to players they meet and potentially causing them to turn away from the game as well. Meanwhile, the playerbase gets tired of seeing the same sh!t in every invasion, then they get tired of seeing the same complaints about said samey sh!t, and eventually everyone gets bored or sick of the stagnant toxicity and moves on with their lives. We CAN aspire to more, and I argue we should. Not because twinking is individually bad or unfun, or that twinking makes you a bad person individually, but because we recognize how diversity of experience is good for us AND for everyone else in the long run. Maybe there is a place for twinks at the end of the day - but they sure shouldn’t be skewing the bell curve this much. And unless there are external factors trying to correct for twinking (which is what the complaints and community/in-group policing are ultimately about), the tragedy of the commons will continue. Easy mode gear with easy mode tactics, making the game duller and more repetitive until that’s left is ten lifers throwing rot pots at each other in a barren, overgrazed field.

@Knucklebreaking

3 ай бұрын

I don't think Elden Ring needs an easy mode, but Palworld like sliders and crossplay. That way, everyone can play how they want to play without worrying about dumb stuff like this. For people who want overleveled or overgeared characters, invading them, they can have that. The people who want to play multiplayer with friends with no invaders they can have that. I don't see how this makes the game worse.

Most twinks nowadays will kill a new player in an honest fight, as they just have better fighting experience. However, twinks also get access to the whole list of ashes of the war, best flask tears, more healing, all the statuses, All the pots, and an understanding of mechanics and level design newer players don't have. I have yeeted so many Gank squads off cliffs because they did not know how Radahn gravity pull work, and twinks can leverage that fact. The cloaking veil alone get so many newer players killed because they run headfirst into a gank because the other dude is invisible. I do not know how to fix it without making invading impossible, or completely unenjoyable. All I do know, is that twinks get t-bagged when I kill them.

Pro tips: As an invader, block everyone in the session after you kill a phantom to stop the running twink host from resummoning their friend(s) A DC counts as a win, some would argue even better Try to find some mercy in your soul for obviously dogwater new players, I like to kill the phantom, and if the host overcomes the challenge alone be it a field boss or many enemies, drop something, like runes or weapons

@ExpertContrarian

3 ай бұрын

You know you’re bad and bitter when you do things like that 😂

Well said, and if I can add, well spoken! I like this types of videos to keep me occupied when I’m walking the dog, or to kill time in my day with my earphones, so I hope I see some more from you, subbed.

Dealing with twinks in our lvl 20s at Monte castle every time we tried to co-op and explore the place together i what just sent us right to Seamless Co-op. Getting stomped into the ground isn't fun when trying to just learn the game and still getting used to stuff. I don't hate invaders, but I'm just going to look for ways to not deal with it. and you guys can do your thing and lets just stay separate.

I don't necessarily have a horse in this race, but I think twinks aren't really anything to get worked up over. If hosts can kill every single enemy in an area and then set up the most perfect gank squad known to man, I say fair game. Although I will say that anyone who uses the chainsaw exploit has the lightest nuts on the planet, even more so if they have a macro set up for it.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Perspective is a great thing. There's bullshit on every side and I'm here for all of it.

Hahaha i love the moment you find the O2 tank and say "eh later"😂 but I have 3 minor but helpful tips after watching: 1.scan the metal salvage, after you do you will be able to deconstruct it into 4 titanium at the fabricator! Also Scan most plants, animals and items to unlock new materials, recipes,etc at the fabricator. 2. The O2 tank will increase your oxygen from 45 to 90. Its a game changer 3. Eating 'Bladder Fish' refills some water. If you hover over a food it will show the stats for how much food/water you get from eating it.

In my personal opinion the fact that Elden Ring is a open world game kinda changes the definition of a twink for me. If you just explore a bit in Limgrave and Liurnia and maybe Caelid which are all easily accessible you can find a lot of very powerful equipment very early on. You don't really need endgame gear in Elden Ring to be quite strong early on, i mean you get fcking Storm stomp in the very first ruin, you can essentially start out with dual katanas if you pick Samurai and sprint to the cave to get the Uchi and then you can put bloody slash on both by buying the lost aow in Weeping and dublicate it in roundtable, or put it on two straightswords for early bleed psss and there's a lot more examples. So in my opinion unless you are using stuff like scarlet rot weapons/rot pots or certain very powerful spells/incants you aren't really much of a twink tbh.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

I very much agree with this sentiment and I'll be making a video on it hopefully soon. What even defines a level-appropriate invader in a game where you can go to 4 different zones in the first 20 minutes. There are so many options that it becomes impossible to have any meaningful expectation, so you have to come prepared for the worst or accept a big risk of getting caught off-guard. It's an interesting system for sure, but it's not always consistent.

@miguelnascimento2847

3 ай бұрын

scarlet rot and poison are really the only problematic things at low levels since you can't have a decent way to remove them and they are really easy to apply. Other than that yeah, anyone can get a really good setup for pvp in less than 30 min of starting a new char just by gathering some flasks and elemental infusions like sacred blade or flamming strike on a weapon of choice. 3 people running a simple setup that is easy to aquire should be able to deal with a single invader if they are not braindead. Problem with twinking in other souls games was mostly the damage able to be dealt, in ER you can achieve that in early game areas so it's not that much of a problem anymore

@TheAzul_Indigo

3 ай бұрын

@@miguelnascimento2847cure poison is sold at round table hold for 1000 runes and costs 7 fp and 10 fai. A sacred seal costs 800 runes. If you go into multiplayer in limgrave where a Miranda flower can proc it, what’s the difference when an invader does it?

@miguelnascimento2847

3 ай бұрын

@@TheAzul_Indigo that's a fair point, I didn't consider it. I guess rot is the only problematic thing. Also remembered that you can get poison mist from the lake in caelid and the poison incantation in the weeping peninsula so from those alone it's fair game

@TheAzul_Indigo

3 ай бұрын

@@miguelnascimento2847 Yes! You can also get the poison grease cookbook from tombs ward catacombs.

"Get invaded for getting a date" Mr. StealYoGirl has invaded

That last invasion was so wholesome btw. Thanks for that.

When hosts and their overleveled phantoms point down after a 10 minute fight as if they destroyed me instantly, I realized that being an honest red man was being a dumb red man. Throw the entire kitchen sink at hosts. They'd do the same to you and tea bag you when you die.

@TheAzul_Indigo

3 ай бұрын

I decided to make an honest RL 20 with the greataxe and got pointed down on by a OL phantom holding the fallingstar beast jaw. I knew then their fairness criteria are meaningless.

From "PREPARE TO DIE!" to PREPARE FOR SOME BULLS***! LOL

great video as always emotional jon, i find myself min maxing broken builds at the lowest level so i can to make deathless invasions, i 100% understand what you are talking, great job :D

Babe wake up, another analysis video from Emotional John just dropped

literally all they have to do is reintroduce the ds2 soul memory system and it solves both the OLP and twink issue in one stroke. If you wanna play with your friends, start a new character, if you want to invade, throw on the agape ring and invade at whatever SL/RL you want but understand you're missing out on a lot of souls if you twink.

Man ive only dabbled in elden ring invasions, and i was 10 when darksouls came out, but these videos are so interesting to me for some reason.

Elden Ring has been my first fromsoft game, so I decided trying a solo taunters tongue run to se how things were like before with solo invasions, I absolutely suck at pvp so I got my ass beat up, like a lot, but I enjoyed the challenge, and mainly I dont mind twinks at all, fairplay you progressed the game to get the gear you need by handicapping yourself. The problem arises when some guy shows up with 2 weapons that are unique per run, and then realize they are not even good at pve, they just get some weird crap airdropped to them witn no effort of their own.

Banger after banger, my good man. I hope your channel only grows :)

How d y get the favor +2 ring?? Did y kill malinet low level??

@bigjim9956

7 күн бұрын

pretty sure people who run twink builds use Cheat Engine or some similar mod to give themselves everything they need for their build

@Thixico

7 күн бұрын

@@bigjim9956 or just have it dropped to them via duelist sign

@bigjim9956

7 күн бұрын

@@Thixico while true there are two problems with that 1 is that you cant drop talisman pouches, flask upgrades, pots, and coolbooks so you’re not completely compared 2 is that you need a friend :(

@Thixico

7 күн бұрын

@@bigjim9956 r/patchesemporium solves the 2nd one

Twinks are just part of the experience. My first was also a pyromancer in DS - before I'd even leveled up once. One little combustion, and I was dead. Wasn't much of a fight. But it is what it is. I've never had any desire to stay at low levels and melt other players like that, and I don't consider that a failure. But I'm glad there is still enough freedom in ER's invasion system to allow folks to do that, if they really want to. Freedom is the key, for me - I like the freedom fromsoft games allow players to have. It's gotten stricter with ER - I wish there was at least a couple areas that allowed invasions whether you have a summon or not, like Nightmare Frontier and Mensis in Bloodborne. I was hoping the DLC would bring that, but alas.

Ds3 red orb invasion range: sl(-5%) and sl(+5%+20levels) idk what you are talking about those massive numbers besides weapon upgrade range

This is the equivalent of a gank squad saying there is a lot of value in ganking.

you hold very many of my same opinions on lower level pvp like this. you have earned another subscriber!

completely agree that fighting twinks in co-op have been some of my most memorable pvp battles when playing with friends. most people co-oping to even fight twinks in early game are usually playing with people they know and able to even coordinate. the fight is in the hosts favor so I would expect any invader to be twinking as to be as prepared as possible. Imo it is an early way to let players know "multiplayer is balanced with a human on both ends of your goals". summons are not an instant win option

"Twinking" aka optimizing your build for your level bracket is necessary in Elden Ring in order to have a chance to defeat overleveled password summons. I wish I didn't have to do it, but I do. It sucks for actual low-level co-op lobbies, but it sucks even more to have to drain 14 estus from a phantom that takes 12 damage per hit.

@Khaliljt

3 ай бұрын

Phantoms are gonna have a max of 7 estus but yeah I agree. Overleveled companions are a plague upon low level invasions

@cowspoopmagic

3 ай бұрын

Depends what your calling twink or optimized, it could just as easily be being bad, salty, an asshole, or any combination. I made a comment on this video that explains this observation you should give me your opinion on it.

@Bitter-Wounds

3 ай бұрын

Password summons legit might be the worst thing fromsoft has ever done to the multiplayer balance wise, hell the 2v1s/3v1s wouldn't even be so bad if we were still using the old 10 levels + 10% shit

A lot of valid points, my main issue with Elden Ring's pvp is that they don't seem to take talisman pouches into account when I really think they should. This isn't from a host perspective either as if you want to invade low level it would be nice to know the host isn't a gank squad with 4 talismans and endgame weapons. That being said, scales summons are very annoying in Elden ring due to how offensive the ashes of war and spells can be late game, so this would slightly improve the situation but not eliminate all issues. Still I would think if you're wanting to get matched with a specific kind of opponent then an additional criteria would only help with that goal. If I was to suggest a mechanic for incorporating talismans into matchmaking I would probably just add an additional check when searching for a viable opponent and checking your talisman slots vs theirs, if you have 4 and they have 1 then it probably shouldn't match you, but someone with 2 slots matching with someone with only 1 doesn't seem nearly as offensive in comparison to how it works currently. As such I think you should only be able to invade someone who has 1 more or 1 less talisman than you do. I haven't put too much thought into this though so if anyone has a better idea I'd be interested in hearing it.

The first time I heard the term twinking was a while after the release of Diablo 2, but it's probably older.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

While I did play Diablo 2 back in the day, the first time I heard of twinking was in WoW. I think it's been a thing for about as long as any online gaming with RPG elements. But the real origin from my understanding is "munchkins" or min/maxers in wargaming and tabletop like D&D. Same idea but just pen & paper instead of computers and internet.

I know it’s kinda different but I’d love to hear your opinion on the history of buffs and nerfs in souls games. Usually, PvE gets the short end of the stick there since PvP is where “balance” is most necessary. I guess I’m just sad Stars of Ruin is mid in PvE now lol

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

As much as PVE isn't my niche, I'd be interested in exploring the balancing impact of things intended or maximized in PVP vs their use in PVE. I truly adore that PVE and PVP builds can be the same in these games and I'd like to delve into the nuances and where it's at its best and worst. Thanks for the suggestion!

The first time I beat O&S in DS1 was by summoning a twink who oneshot both of them with firestorm. Good times.

This does make me think - How much of the pvp discourse in Elden ring is invader limitation centric? Invaders (who have one job to do in invasions) seemingly are expected to have so many different rules of conduct, limitations, things they do to fight with one hand behind their back and only using their nose to push buttons, while hosts can do whatever they feel like. Ultimately, this topic feels like it comes down to people wanting to restrict or tell other people they can't do something cause they feel it's unfair as they lost to it. Never mind the unfair bits they themselves engage in. In other words: Rules for thee - but not for me. Much in the same vein, I think a common thread that all sides of the pvp discourse here have is nobody likes or wants to be told what to do. Or how to play a game. People being advised to "turn off multiplayer" (or given any number of sound advice) must feel like getting told to play in the kiddy pool instead of the adults side. Players fundamentally do not like being told what to do in their player experience by other players, no matter how legit the advice is. But are perfectly fine with telling other people what to do. Especially if there is a social framework where the party giving orders can be labeled as the "legit, good people" VS "the scoundrels and bad people." Again, it's rules for thee - but not for me. Gamer culture is easily identifiable by a want to be the ones the rule book supports, as one who co-signs or writes the rules has the ultimate benefits in anything. They are the god-mode tools in a sense. Write the rules others follow, and nobody will notice if you yourself break a few. I think fundamentally, so many players being used to having the ability to eat their cake and have it too just can't handle being subject to rules that they cannot alter to be the most beneficial to themselves with no drawbacks. Many players are used to being king of the playground they are dropped off into...and not just another roamer who can get bowling pinned if someone so feels like it. And this problem of "MY" power fantasy Vs that which fights back and makes one look like a chump, coming into a clash seems to be somewhere close to the root of this whole dilemma. It's an alien experience, which has no regard for peoples feelings on it. So how bout that, ye lowly Tarnished? Emboldened by thy flame of ambition! Or in other words - I can think of few things that suit the feel of the game world better than this kind of brutal dethroning of the players. Turning them not into Lords, but mere lowly Tarnished that fight among themselves for scraps of power. Less them playing a game, and more the game playing them as it were.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Very insightful! Everyone loves kicking ass and hates getting their ass kicked, and so many people are completely immune to the hypocrisy inherent to that mentality. If there's one thing I want to accomplish with these videos, it would be to give people the perspective necessary to appreciate all aspects of a game that's willing and able to push back.

@videocrowsnest5251

3 ай бұрын

@@emotionaljonxvx Most players like to zoom in and focus just on their own experience. Which is perfectly fine. Problem is when it comes to discussing balancing or other topics in a game it tends to bloom into factionalism and straw manning. Where the conversation shifts away from the topic of balance into proving anyone who does not support an argument or offers counter claims must be morally, intellectually and as human being inferior and must be stomped into the ground. Not only bested, but humiliated so badly they never come back. Basic Fandom problems, in other words. Where who is right is morally superior and who is wrong is the crazy inferior people. Words like love/hate/etc getting slung around, so casually synonyms such as like/dislike fall to the wayside. Very few players are interested in balance for all above balance for I, and even fewer are interested in considering an opposing side's argument when discussing said topic. It's always extremes, too. Makes civil discussions on anything very hard. I definitely like your way of going about it as you try to stick to the matter at hand, considering differing opinions, while offering your own opinion. Nuanced discussion is much more interesting than the Redditor hyperbole that feels like it's everywhere.

I've seen dragon halberd put in work. Thing is a monster for twink builds, spinning slash is already strong and dragon halberd add frostbite and lightning damage to it. Lightning res is pretty low on low level characters, so that spinning slash is gonna wreck them hard and the burst damage from frostbite is just the cherry on top. with hero starting class you don't need any stat investment beside 1 point of dex to 2h the thing, so you can hit your vigor soft cap and wear some nice armor with it. Thing can just straight up one shot a lot of non-twinked people if ash of war combos them.

To be clear, most twinks don't earn their equipment. They don't goto Godrick and beat him at soul level 30 to get their 4th talisman slot They spawn it in with cheat engine. IMO invaders should not be able to use consumables at all and have no flasks, you should also be locked into your current weapon set No hardswapping while invading. That would bring them inline with what they were intended to be. Just a mob for the host to deal with. I also think solo invasions should be possible under this ruleset. If you want full range of combat against other players there is an arena for that.

Twinks are a breed of power gamers, and any encounter with such is an absolute shit time.

I never knew that bloodborne had a floor of level 30... that's that's honestly something I want more of from From. It also explains why I often didn't get invaded until around heading down to get the first chalice. Sure, it is a bandaid, but I feel like new players wouldn't get traumatized by invader twinks nearly as badly if they got to play the game more first whether with or without friends. Because really, in Elden Ring, it's specifically the lowest level twinks that are always the worst for new players. The invaders in high wall and undead settlement were often the problem. In Elden Ring, it's specifically invaders using Rot or other status when new players cannot really heal without simlarly twinking that is the biggest problem. Like, it's not low level PvP I think more mainstream players take issue with so much as *when* those interactions first happen. The most fun I've had with invaders both as an invader and getting invaded in DS3 is specifically the wolves of Farron and the duel meta at the Chapel of the Deep. It's the idea that Twinks are bad for the game not for existing, but because twinking in say... Limgrave or Undead Settlement/High Wall that is what tends to make new players hate the game, and those experiences is what I feel fuels the cycle of hosts feeling justified in Ganking. And as you said in your other video. Ganking in Elden Ring is boring... It's boring, but it's even more common in Elden Ring in my experience than in DS3, and a huge part of that isn't just that it's forced to happen with how invasions work in Elden Ring. With all the comments I see, I feel there are literally that many more gankers drifting about in Elden Ring specifically to grief invaders because the lowest level elden ring Twinks have an absurd power advantage over the hosts at the lowest levels. Rot literally forces many new players to not play with friends, or to similarly twink and transfer down rot bolus before they're even learned the game. If I got hit by rot in Liurnia? I could easily laugh that off. Every time I run into rot in Limgrave while making a new file to play the game normally is a reminder of how awful Twinking can be. It does not *have* to be awful. I've seen really cool and awesome twinks. But I feel that at it's heart, From has been trying to address Twinks entirely the wrong way in making limits like half estus... There are things they can do to make sure new players aren't turned away from the game that they just don't. They could put in boolean flags that let the game know you have gear from X late game region and thus only match you with similar players, aka other twinks. The bandaid solution of needed to be a minimum level is honestly one of the best damn solutions even if it is a bandaid. The most tramatic stories and all the players looking to grief the most usually end up being as low level as possible, and there's a reason I tell my friends to just not coop until they beat Godrick. In my many many files I've made... After godrick is when most invaders feel like they are in the game for just a fight and some fun. That's when I'm confident that if my friends let themselves get invaded they'll see how cool invasions can actually be. And since liurnia is where you get the bloody finger, that honestly makes sense. I get why you defend invasions. I love them... but having been in one of those horror stories when my friends literal first invader ever shoved him into new game+ as they died because me and my friend beat him without any twinking of our own in DS3.... There are reasons I am adamantly against heavy twinking. I wasn't even a high level summon. I had made a new file and started fresh to give my friend as much of the real experience as possible--including invasions. The last time I had played that new game+ packet hadn't been a thing. And I've had to spend literal years getting that friend comfortable with invasions since because of that. He instinctively assumes the worst of invaders despite how I basically play the part of his blue sentinel and 1v1 most invaders to show him that most invaders are just trying to have fun and that there is this weird sense of... escalating as invaders see the need to.

Twinks is a crazy headline

I think they should bind the estus to levels like every 5 or so you get a flask

My purpose for twinking in Anor Londo is to see how many hosts I can trick into hitting Solaire lmao

Scarlet rotting people in limgrave is kind of lame, they can't even cure it.

I don‘t like sweaty twinks, but I like the fact that Elden Ring makes it necesseary, to even barely stand a chance against 24/7 gank-fights, having no co-reds thanks to TT toggle and endless blue swarming, 9/10 cases including overlevelled summons with barely to no downscaling- even less.

@isaihinojos3028

3 ай бұрын

it's not often your level 30 invader can beat two level 700 phantoms, but when the helpless hosts gets alone and more often than not disconnects out of pure fear, it makes it worth it.

You mention that there's mistakes you don't know you're making, or something to learn from the experience. But the only thing to take away from getting poisoned and rotted before you have access to cures, is that you should have your phantom friends drop you items. Which... I really don't think is a good lesson, as the game is more enjoyable when you explore, discover and fend for yourself. At the very least, it goes contrary to what you're saying about embracing adversity in the game.

Another great video!

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

It's the Snake Ant Twink! Get him!

Just so you know even though I personally don't like twinking I absolutely love fighting them myself with my prior pvp knowledge it genuinely feels like fighting a randomly spawning miniboss. I'll usually only bring in another summon since I know most invaders absolutely hate solos and I don't want to be sever blocked lmao.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

That's the beauty of invasions. You get something weird or absurd so often and everyone gets to dictate their own style of play.

the truly simple and obvious solution is every playthrough I level up like 10 times and upgrade my weapons to be out of twink range. played thousands of hours of these games and that's the best solution in all of them imo. also just to play devils advocate for the invaders in Elden Ring I think the system of always invading multiple opponents probably forces the most "unfair" builds of any souls game. Like what are they supposed to do? Just invade with a "normal" build and hope the gank squad is going to let them have a good time? I just see it as a normal thing in these games now and I can't really fault Elden Ring invaders specifically due to the way multiplayer works.

20:10 So real for letting the host get the item first. As an invader I love letting hosts get wins in on something difficult before I GET them.

Me and my buddy decided to make a twink build, it started out normal enough dropped a few late game weapons and talismans, up graded to +3 and started invading. we realised the scaled down summons where a bit much so our journey began for more talisman slots, I stopped at fire giant cause I hate that fight. but we also pushed into the DLC at lvl 20 +3 mohg was a bitch and we defeated that first dungeon fight in the DLC near where you spawn. what was supposed to be a fun goof off thing became a journey so when I invade and fight actual level 20s I feel no shame I earned all of this feel my wrath.

Absolutely love this video and its conclusion. The thing that got me into invading was doing randoms coop a lot and I couldn't defend hosts against twinks. I decided I needed to embrace it and to get better at PvP by invading others. I just want to stress how difficult invading can be on that side too especially in Elden Ring with the amount of attacks that are present (including ashes of war). As someone that had zero invasion experience I found myself getting beat a LOT of the time, but I wanted to get better so I continued Overcoming the adversities and getting better at game mechanics truly made me appreciate just how multiplayer works in From Software games, but invading does become about power. I understood specific build making better now that I have a few lower level invader builds to invade with, though I try to go easy on hosts that don't have twink phantoms because I adore the interactions just as much. That said, twink phantoms are definitely a problem just based on high levels (talking a minimum of 75-100 levels above the host) as the damage that they do is insane, so I feel like invader twinks had to make more tailored builds that lean towards heavy damage on lower levels to compensate for that too ...it is extremely satisfying to nuke people with Scarlet Aeonia at RL40 though

I love invading and luring invaders solo however my main issue with Elden ring twinks (and to some degree pvp in general) compared to previous titles is unfortunately the prevalence of cheat engine usage. Specifically in regards to single use consumables as in the past twinks were honestly kind of respectable as usually you had to beat the game low level to get the necessary gear for your build and hell I'm guilty of doing this myself but that's all it was at least in my experience and you usually didn't get that major of a power boost for doing so (with some notable exceptions obviously). However in modern Elden ring twinking has become a totally new beast. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the majority of low level twinks are just cheat engine users with the release of the dlc, nearly every second player invading me on my level 20 twink are flinging hefty rot pots along with popping raw meat dumplings starshards and divine blessings along with having max flasks while having absolutely no fundamentals of playing the game in terms of actually fighting. Even while invading I'm seeing more and more hosts and phantoms doing the same thing which is honestly really ruining my fun for both activities as it just means I have to run one shot builds which I personally find boring. Unfortunately the only real fix for this that I could think of is to either make these items unusable in pvp or add them to the shop but I doubt either of these things will happen and for me specifically its does not really stop me but for actual newer players its just bullying at this point for both invaders and hosts which just is not really helping the pvp scene in general. but that's my 2 cents on the matter not that anyone cares what I think good luck and have fun out there :3

The way you interpret the experience is what you make of it. When I got invaded by a pre-nerf Double Vykes dude on my first run and got malded into oblivion, my reaction simply was "lol", and summoned more people in the hopes of fighting them again. Other individuals react as if it was the end of the world and a hate crime was commited against them. Maybe some players are just very soft :P

@emotionaljonxvx

2 ай бұрын

I think it's a lot of very new players who are looking to be dismissive of someone who rocked them. Like, sure, it sucks that the game can sometimes be incredibly unbalanced but that's also a big part of the fun. I see a lot of players who are just anti-competitive and really don't like invasions in any capacity, so any opportunity to dismiss the mechanic or set their own rules for how it has to work helps justify their mindset. I suspect you're right that some players are just very soft.

I just wish level ranges still mattered lol. Feels like they don’t, so I always just go through the game level up until 200 or 150 and I don’t invade because there’s someone playing Dark Souls 2 (love that game) in Elden Ring by playing at an impossible level 838 lmao

I loved bloodborne twinking. Bl43 with +10 weapons and 25% gems. I mainly co-op'd cause invasions were much harder to get for me when return to yharnam isn't going on.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

I also love Bloodborne twinking. I think having everyone have access to the same quality of heals and parrying being so strong regardless of level really helped to balance the game regardless of level or weapon.

100% facts right here!! Couldn't have said it better myself. Everything in From games is meant to be a challenge...its the only reason we always come back!!! Not because we masochists, but because will live for the sense of accomplishment! New to your channel...subscribed ..and I will be back!🙏🏻

I agree, I don't hate them, and its hard to be mad at twinks when Elden Ring unlike the souls games is an open world game. On my first playthrough I got all the way to altus plateau, through Leyndell, and into mountaintops before I even fought radahn or rykard. I just kind of missed some things until I was way over leveled. I was about level 60-70 and doing invasions with gear from mountaintops as I played through the game, does that count as twinking? Maybe but it's an open world game and that was just the order that I happened to tackle it in. When the game world is so open in the order that it lets you progress, you cant be super ass mad about people doing it in a different order and getting "late game" gear earlier.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Well said. If I'm level 50 in Stormveil and get invaded by a level 50 who's been through Altus, are they twinking? Should they somehow be accountable for catering to my experience? The game isn't set up for it to work any other way and I wish people would embrace that instead of being dismissive.

i killed tree sentinel alone at first day of elden ring , and days later while twinking i saw many host watching their baby sitters fighting with tree sentinels ! Not even in fight ! . Mostly im not touching if they are all fighting but host watch from away that i cannot accept !

Yoo can u share that build?

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's a Wretch level 10 +3/+1 using Soreseal, Starscourge Heirloom, and Omensmirk with 1 level in strength to get 23 STR for the cleavers and the other levels into vigor

I really like your youtube videos. You are making the video essays I'm too lazy to make , honestly. The thing about Twinking in souls games is, it just is not what it used to be. The host team has it so goddamn easy now. Like you said, back in the good old days, you got invaded by a dark bead twink (while solo) and got one shotted. There was no guarantee you had summons or a rune arc or any real advantage as the host. Back in these days, whining about twinks was very justifiable. My first invasion ever was a bastard like this in undead parrish. I thought he was the coolest thing. I wanted to play like him, and be bad red man. But today, it's so painfully easy for hosts, I have trouble not having a smug grin when they try to whine. Today, hosts have: Rune Arc (40 level bonus) Double heals Usually 2 overlevel summons Can fogwall with no way to stop them Enemies now target invaders (they do, they're just sneaky about it) They can resummon at any time if they start losing, and blues will show up as substitute gankers even if they don't. I could go on. The safety nets they have are absolutely ridiculous. Let us also talk about the overlevel summons. Almost every host has at least 1 overlevel summon. If they are 10-50 levels higher than the host, it is not a huge deal. But when it becomes a 100 level or more difference, it is a goddamn nightmare for invaders. Lets say you are level 40 invader, and so is host. His phantom is level 200. This summon has inherent advantages over everyone else, and they are very large. The only real thing that gets scaled down on overlevel summons is the health and weapon level. Things that do not scale down: Innate defense. When you level up, you gain innate defense not tied to build or gear at all. Overlevel summons keep this, so their skin is literally thicker than everyone elses. Damage scaling. While upgrade levels goes down, the stat based scaling of weapon, ash, and magic damage stays the same as it is in their level 200 world. Meaning they are insanely tanky, and deal a shitload of unjustifiable damage. They also retain all gear and spells from their endgame level 200 world. That last part is important. Overlevel phantoms are not just twinks like some invaders, but are demigods compared to host and invader due to bad scaling. Not to mention, the phantoms will often give late game gear to the host so he is a twink too. Yeah, it's bad. I have a lot of trouble sympathizing with hosts on this one. Overlevel summons with endgame gear and twink hosts are absolutely rampant. Everywhere. You will not get away from them. This is why i feel it is justifiable for invaders to use whatever the fuck they want. If host team twinks, invaders should twink. That is just the way of it. Until michael zaki really does something about overlevel summons, invaders will continue to twink, and there will continue to be nothing wrong with it considering how easy the host team has it and how many of them are twinks. Let us also not forget that endgame gear isn't even necessarily better than early game. You get bloodbound fang early game and it is literally one of the best invasion weapons in the game. It varies. You get it though. I kinda sorta think hosts have no grounds to complain about twinks when they're doing it even more, on top of the easy mode version of invasions they have in Elden Ring. I think it's just another sad excuse to bitch about invaders in general, honestly.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Completely agree. I never want to be dismissive of the hosts who have never invaded to see what it's like for the other side because it just breeds hostility when we all love the same game. I want to encourage the positive hostility of knowing what you're going up against and embracing that these games let things be unbalanced. I know people hate twinks so I had to make my case. I wanna bridge the gap to give people the perspective to love these games for what sets them apart instead of people trying to make them like every other game on the market.

There's a premise your anecdote seems to imply that I take issue with: that new players getting obliterated by players they have no chance against and the game bending over backwards to cater to them is a true dichotomy. If you were to, say, get invaded in the Burg by an experienced yet honest player who beat you in a somewhat competitive fight, would that not have provided a similar experience? I had a similar first invasion to you - for all intents and purposes it was the same: getting one shotted by pyromancy in Undead Burg. My response was entirely different: I swore off online entirely and immediately disconnected my console from the internet. This was after I decided against what I saw was my better judgment to try playing online knowing that invasions could occur. So I fundamentally disagree about twinks or "appreciating" them in any capacity. All that experience really accomplished was to wall me off from the multiplayer ecosystem that players are intended to be part of in whatever minor or significant manner. And I've been on that side of the equation as well in DS3, the game in which they are arguably the least oppressive. I still felt way too powerful, and the invasion that brought that point home was against a four-player squad at the beginning of Undead Settlement. I just...kind of walked up and dismantled them one by one. They weren't exactly great players, but one of them was slinging Chaos Bed Vestiges at me. I don't know if Greatsword of Judgment is considered meta or tryhard at low levels but that's what I was using. Given how much the devs have tried to curtail and insulate players from them, they seem to agree that they aren't a necessary or healthy part of the game. They likely still exist because the most draconian measures against them would adversely affect other parts of the game they wish to preserve (though part of me would love if weapons came pre-upgraded like in Code Vein and they were forced in your inventory when you reached certain areas). I still firmly believe that the changes to solo invasions culminating in their effective removal in Elden Ring is an acknowledgement of that. At the core I guess I just disagree that players should embrace hate, spite, or other such feelings, and I certainly don't agree that the games are made to evoke them - I tend to avoid PvP in games in general because I don't want to participate in that cycle (I largely invested time in PvP in these games in order to be a better cooperator). I see these games more as a firm but well-meaning mentor who wants to bring out the best in you.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Alright, first off, thank you for the thoughtful comment. I know it takes a lot of effort to put this stuff down and I appreciate the engagement. To your points, this is a fundamental mischaracterization of what I'm trying to get across with this or any of my videos. I am not trying to imply in any way that my experience is at all representative of how other people have approached the game. It is, in fact, far from it and I understand that better than anyone. What I am trying to communicate is that the way people experience and conceptualize twinking, and invasions more broadly, are actively harmful to their experience. When people label invasions or twinking or ganking as disruptive or unintentional or decidedly unfun, it colors their perception of the game and what it should be, rather than what it is. It is a fundamental dismissal of an entire portion of the game based on preconceived notions of fairness or justice or whatever. When people treat any form of gameplay other than the one they approve of as inherently negative, it only serves to reinforce people's negative perceptions of those playstyles, and thus the cycle continues. What I am suggesting is that people open themselves to an experience they are not currently open to, especially if they are the sort of person who hates it. It doesn't take some special quality in a person to find value in these mechanics, nor does it require some sociopathic indifference to the happiness of others. Nothing about what I'm suggesting here is meant to evoke hatred beyond the hyperbolic animosity between invader and invaded as characters. The hatred I am suggesting people feel is not something I am suggesting should destroy them, but is a metaphor for turning a hatred of invaders into a hatred of losing. Not a literal, foaming-mouth vitriol that disallows fun, but an encouragement of motivation and perseverance. It is colorful language not meant to be universally quantifying. I don't think people shouldn't play the games offline and I don't think there's a right way to play. I'm trying to get people past their hang-ups on bad experiences and help them embrace a unique system that I don't want to see disappear. I'm not trying to paint invasions as fair or balanced in any meaningful way and I think it's fascinating that these game modes exist, therefore I want people to engage with them because I think they're worth it, blemishes and all. If every single counterpoint I get is "No one likes them so they shouldn't exist and I don't participate because I hate it" well that is exactly the thing I am arguing against. Your personal experience is your own and no one can take that from you. If you like it the way it is and have no qualms with any part of the game, then more power to you. But if you fundamentally hate something about the game, I am suggesting you really try to gain perspective on it before dismissing it entirely because you might otherwise cheat yourself out of a new way of thinking and enjoying the game. That was the case for me and I think it's perfectly reasonable that others might feel the same if they give it a chance. Sorry for such a long response, I just thought you had the most approachable way of telling me I'm wrong and thought maybe you'd get something out of it.

@UnknownJudgment

3 ай бұрын

@@emotionaljonxvx To be clear, I'm not at all against invasions on principle and think they are a mechanic that should continue to exist and be improved upon, be it by From or by other developers. My disposition toward them is "neat conceptually, but I don't care for their execution." I just consider twinking as distinct from invasions and think it's perfectly fine to call it out as harmful to the experience for some since it creates a negative first impression that is not representative of them as a whole. With that in mind, I might see this video as an attempt to reverse that effect in your own way. If I could reframe your stance into something that is more agreeable (to me at least), would it be right to say that you believe players should avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater and try to make the best out of the experience as it exists? Fair enough if that's what you meant re: hatred. And while I don't mean to imply that invasions are primarily a sadist's affair, surely they are more attractive to those who are captivated by and wish to emulate displays of power. I understand that one should try to gain a better understanding of something before dismissing it or deciding you hate it, and maybe one like myself who has made a serious effort to do so over the years isn't exactly the target audience of a video like this - I imagine you at least accept that there are some who can and will come to an informed conclusion that it's not for them. In that sense, I suppose "I don't participate because I hate it" (with the caveat that one has given it an honest try) sans "it shouldn't exist" is what I'd go to bat for. And maybe you'd agree under the right circumstances. I appreciate the long response - it means you're substantively engaging with my points.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

@@UnknownJudgment I think that is generally fair enough. Really, the important thing for me is that "twinking" is a low level build niche that doesn't have to be exclusively negative and they've done a lot to curb it's more harmful effects (though it and the whole of invasions still need work). A lot of people who hate invasions or are fine with them but consider twinks an exception I think come at it from the perspective that new or unprepared players deserve to not be invaded and that twinks are exploiting some sort of unintended mechanic, which I feel ignores exactly what invasions are. If FromSoft wanted to not let low level players get invaded, they could easily reinstate the level limit from Bloodborne or a host of other mechanics, but they instead chose to implement weapon level matchmaking, allow downscaled summons, and tether invasions to cooperation, which I think speaks volumes about how they want the issue addressed. Whether or not it's fair is a separate argument entirely and I think will be largely circumstantial, though I do think there's a strong argument for fairness being a very skewed way to view invasions. In either case, I want people to embrace what the game is doing by allowing unique methods of play and not shy away because they have negative experiences, because I feel people are missing out. If, like in your case, they are well-versed in all aspects of the mechanics and simply don't like them, they likely don't need me to convince them otherwise. The video is, as you suggest, intended for people whose minds have been made up prematurely. I get invading, like any PVP, attracts the worst of the gaming world and that makes it easy to view as a sea of shit, with twinking as the literal and metaphorical lowest of the low. I want to be a voice of reason that says "Hey, Sea of Shit rules" and also everyone should try every part of the game in earnest before they pass judgement. Appreciate the genuine engagement and hopefully I don't come off as obstinate or elitist because as much as I do think it's funny to act like a bastard I want everyone to get as much out of these games as possible.

I laughed at the fat rolling Samurai.

One might say that your pyromancer *melted* your health bar

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

"People only wanting to use twinks is a problem!" Gay people🤝from soft players

You CANNOT stop twinking no matter what you change but because they removed solo invasions among other weaknesses like no friendly fire with giga AoEs in coop while most mobs can hit the red anyway, overleveled phantoms, reds are incentivized to twink to stand a chance most of the time. This came from only a couple invaders you would find in ds1 1 shotting people with max upgraded chaos weapons to elden ring, if the invader doesnt have duped 999 all consumables, best gear setup, they have to be trolling because they are very likely to face a gank doing the same. in an attempt to stop griefing removing solo invasions was a mistake and only lead to a way more toxic pvp system.

It's a rather scummy tactic, regardless of which side is doing it. However, something, in my opinion which is scummier is duping limited throwables/consumables, so you spam them, especially in ER, where they are much stronger. (All bollases should be purchasable, though, especially with madness and rot weapons being in the game) Again, this goes for either side.

The beg for mercy one can b funny as hell 16:10

Endless pots, finished bleed builds, and rapid firing crossbows with rot/bleed bolts….yeah, being level 5 wretch helping my level 10 friend out in limgrave is so fun. People twinking to feel good about their “skill” when in reality they run at you pressing LB with dual bleed weapons, so you get proc even if you roll. Big brain, much skill🤦

idk man i think twinks are pretty neat (also irl)

9:38 This kind of cuts to the root of the issue for a lot of these conversations, there are 2 kinds of players, the player that respond like you, that get blasted by dark bead and want to try it, and the players like me that get blasted by dark bead and think, "no that shit is disgusting I'm never using that thing". For me a huge part of why i play souls games is because i have specific build ideas, specific spells, a specific character, I'm going for. This very rarely intersects with the meta, and in fact it often specifically avoids it. If i see too many people using a certain setup it looses its edge to me, i want my "character" to stand out. This is why the "if you think its so op just use it" response doesn't do anything for me, it goes against the whole point of why i play.

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

Hey, I completely agree with you. I want to play my way and try to be as meta-averse as I can. What I found so appealing about the one-shot elimination was the idea that you could be that powerful. I don't particularly enjoy reducing fights to a single-round shoot-off, so I try to find the best way to play my own way. I certainly understand the appeal for people to mimic an easy kill build, but really all I want people to appreciate is the idea that you can do a lot with a little. I like to try to find ways to counter those sorts of builds using things I find appealing, though it doesn't always work out. I think this series does a (mostly) good job of letting people use what they want. It's not often in a game where I feel equally valid using a dagger as I do using a greatsword and this series has given that to me in one form or another for over a decade. Elden Ring hasn't been the best about it but I'd be lying if I said there weren't options.

@swordierre9341

3 ай бұрын

​@@emotionaljonxvx I think the last patch did wonders for build diversity, however the top setups are in my opinion still too powerful to a degree i find disheartening. To be honest at this point is mainly just stuff like PS setups and a couple ashes of war that need tuning, but the effects of their presence are, imo, overpowering for the meta. The interclass balancing is also pretty bad in my opinion: there are many weapons per weapon class, but only a few are worth using. I challange you tot take the Lucerne into an invasion against 3 people, it completely out classed by every halberd and spear. This is a personal shame for me, because the lucerne has alwasybeen my baby since ds1. Lets say i want to make a historically accurate knight with a short spear and a simple wooden round shield. Unfortunately, you can barely compete with that build, because there is no advantage given to a short spear to make up for its short range, and no advantage given to a wooden shield to make up for its low defense&stability. (seriously no one ever uses wooden shields in these games because they are so excessively out classed) At this point im just complaining, which is not generally something i like doing for too long, so ill stop here., I just wanted to paint.the picture of what im talking about. The point is, while the game has made a lot of progress, theres still progress to be made.

I love pvp in elden ring whenever I’m playing I always allow invaders into my world while I’m solo or with someone because I genuinely enjoy the pvp and the pve BUT there is 1 problem now I don’t mind “twinks” if they are using high level armor or good weapons it is what it is but the problem comes in with those who are using end game utilities/weapons in low level area and you got no way to counter it… Everytime I’m in stormveil and I allow invasion I always run into these type of players the guy using rot pots or rot weapons like I’m running solo and your gonna throw rot pots in an area where you can’t get rot boluses and then run away that is lame like your not even gonna fight me? It’s those type of players that ruins pvp for others the players who play like isn’t playing for fun or to have a good time there opponent isn’t having a good time they are just there to be griefers and ruin a good time and it’s only in stormveil because they know low levels don’t have access to the scarlet boluses and that’s just lame imo.

Very well said 👹 It is hard to love rot/lightning pot, poison weapon infused, banished knight armor, large glintstone scrap, frenzied warning stone (all this in one) players at RL 10-20 though 👻

@emotionaljonxvx

3 ай бұрын

For sure, there are some busted mechanics full stop. I love the little idiosyncrasies in these games but I wouldn't object to some better balance.

idk what is the display of power when some mf pulls up with some rot setup, rots the new player through rolls, and wins by status damage

Invasions past lvl 100 aren’t fun for me too much ganks with projectiles I’ve put a lot of hours in on all lvl brackets 80 is my favorite