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I totally get the "When times get tough, that [what you were first taught] is what you remember" comment.. I'm not a pilot, but I am a caver, and when I'm teaching people the various manouvres they need to move along and climb and descend ropes, even though there are things I might simplify and corners I might safely cut for myself, I make a point of stressing doing things the maximally safe way, not only for someone's immediate safety, but because (even though in this case it's rather more about fatigue than some sudden crisis) if someone finds themselves some time later climbing out of a deep cave in the small hours of the morning and/or if they are somewhat colder than they would like to be, while their conscious mind may be having issues staying alert or even awake, what their deeper mind will hang on to are those things that someone drilled into them when they first started. I've been there myself a few times, when I didn't feel like I had enough energy to move and think at the same time, but not moving wasn't a good option.

When I took a flight of 27's tonkas to Bahrain (oh so many years ago....) on an exercise they dined out on the story of rushing to get out of the way on the pan, really cool to hear John tell it first hand after all these years.

@Johnbg81327.

3 ай бұрын

It tickled me to hear that it has become Tornado folklore. What I forgot to mention was it was 6 Tornados and 4 Luftwaffe Phantoms. I did hear one story where he was overtaken by a Phantom in reheat. It was totally chaotic. Cheers

I am always amazed by the control of emotion that people who have been at the sharp end of an event display, this man performing correctly under extreme stress, my dad telling me about continuing to send morse signals when under shellfire inWW2, ordinary people doing extraordinary things.

@nidgem7171

4 ай бұрын

*THAT'S because the ones who panic aren't around to recount events* The trick is to deal with the problem THEN look for a change of trousers AFTERWARDS once its resolved 😋

I could listen to these Guys all day because it's from real first hand experience, told how it happened. Amazing 👍

When I was in the RAF we were taught how an ejection seat works. An absolutely magnificent piece of equipment. Very intricate but also extremely reliable.

Totally transfixed the whole way through. Thank you !

@Aircrewinterview

4 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Fascinating story, especially the bit about the leg restraint and its effect on John's leg. Years earlier there was a nasty incident where an exchange Harrier pilot was flying a local sortie and chose not to wear a Mae West. Some sort of failure led to an ejection, the oxygen hose should have been clipped to a D-ring on said Mae West but was clipped to one on the flying suit instead. This attachment was too weak and as the seat separated the oxygen hose tore away from this attachment point, the hose stretched out to its maximum and the PEC was released from the seat causing it to be yanked back by the hose and hit the pilot in the throat which was a fatal injury. Just goes to show how all the kit has to work together and be in the correct configuration.

I did warn you about flying in Aircraft of Multiple Occupancy! Still a great storyteller, Grogers. Happy memories of our Harrier PAI Course.

Wonderful story. Thank you both for sharing it. 👏👏👏

Love John Grogan's sang froid. Great channel by the way. It's wonderful to hear these experiences recounted by the guys themselves.

@Aircrewinterview

3 ай бұрын

Cheers

Thank you.

Thanks for this.

@Aircrewinterview

4 ай бұрын

Cheers

He is very very lucky! What a story!

Great yarn!

I find myself liking your videos/ interviews at the start. Not seen a bad one yet mate 👍🏼

@Aircrewinterview

4 ай бұрын

Cheers!

Nice listen.

Very brave man

HLWSCU and feedback shafts stop the wings sweeping with the flaps down. If however the feedback shafts have been disconnected during a servicing procedure and the other shift F**k up you can in fact sweep said wings with the flaps down as happened at Marham in the early 90s and is fully documented in "Groundcrew Boys" well worth a read lol.

@125brat

4 ай бұрын

I believe it happend at Cottesmore too long before the one at Marham😬 Sweeping the wings with the flaps down and HLWSCU feedback shafts disconnected. It made a mess and took a while to fix. I did wonder if a flap assymetry would have prevented the flaps deploying, but iirc that would have given a warning on the CWP. I guess the buttons he was talking about that illuminated were on the CSAS control panel with lane failures? Oooooh, it's a long time ago since I learnt about those😂

@Andy-co6pn

4 ай бұрын

​@125brat "Dont be enraged, the csas has engaged" 😂 yeah you could try and clear any failures on the csas control panel by pressing the relevant caption.. Flap asymmetry would throw up an error in the fscp and cause a "slat"? caption on the cwp . Its been a while 😮

@Johnbg81327.

3 ай бұрын

Yes. Interesting about warning captions. Oddly there were no captions lit at any point apart from the fly by wire switch and that went out when it was reset. The thing that alerted me was the angle of attack was too high downwind. Cheers

@125brat

3 ай бұрын

​@@Johnbg81327. Just wondering if with slats only deployed i.e. flaps remaining fully up, whether that would cause the nose to rise because the centre of pressure moved forward giving the increased AOA you saw? I would have thought that would have been prevented by the CSAS computers and subsequently appear on the ADR trace, but it seems not. You mentioned elsewhere the SPILS was only on the ADV but if I remember correctly, the SPILS was inhibited on the IDS because of development issues. It was only incorporated years after the aircraft was in service although the control panel was fitted from very early days.

@Andy-co6pn

3 ай бұрын

@125brat RSAF GR1 had a Spils comp mod to have Spils active engaged by U/C lock rather than WOW as they had a habit of taking off with SPILS switched on

As you landed on the runway does it count as a take off and landing on that trip?

@FireAngelOfLondon

4 ай бұрын

As I recall you have to have the plane around you to count it as a landing. I was also interested to know if he took up Martin Baker's standing invitation to anyone who has to use one of their seats. You can make an appointment to visit the factory and if the people who built your seat are still working there they will introduce you to them. They can do this because of the finely detailed logging done at their factories, where everything done by every individual is logged.

@davidsmith8997

4 ай бұрын

@@FireAngelOfLondonThat's a good sign of quality. Wish Boeing did the same!

@Johnbg81327.

4 ай бұрын

Actually no. But you’ve given me food for thought - I’ll give them a call👍

@Medge2sc

4 ай бұрын

@@Johnbg81327. so You are one of the rare bunch where your landing and takeoffs don’t tally up

@nidgem7171

4 ай бұрын

@@FireAngelOfLondon Hmmm *I was told any landing you can walk away from's a good one* . That leg restaint cord may have skewed the picture but As Mr Grogan did limp away Yeah - It *should* count.

12 feet...great seat 👍

12' ? Could have just jumped down from there, mate.

Is it still working? Sir you are a lucky man, ,

Very interesting, so nonchalant about having to eject, great story to hear.

That is my expericane. I was a pongo, Got injured, For some reason the keee I tried to fire on is now the knee I need a strap on to go out with my latest guide dog - Bruno.

Was he on about the SPILS system at the beginning?

@Johnbg81327.

3 ай бұрын

No. The manoeuvre demand system was quite different. The SPILS system was only fitted to the ADV to my knowledge

@andrewwhittle483

2 ай бұрын

@@Johnbg81327.No, SPILS was fitted to both IDS and ADV but it wasn’t ready for early production IDS so had to be retro fitted to the earlier aircraft. It was adopted a bit later by the GAF and IAF. Boscombe Down advised that it should be switched off for landing, although this was never a BAe recommendation.

How would the AIB know it was 12ft for the ejection?

@Andy-co6pn

4 ай бұрын

Milked the crash recorder for the aircraft data

@user-io2et5bv2s

4 ай бұрын

@@Andy-co6pn I didn’t know there was a crash recorder fitted to the Tonka GR1, just a CVR.

@Andy-co6pn

4 ай бұрын

@@user-io2et5bv2s they had both , cvr in the cockpit to record voice and load the cgps tapes and a crash recorder for the aircraft data

@Johnbg81327.

3 ай бұрын

They’re just very clever. I have worked with the AIA/AAIB on numerous occasions and am always astounded how they can come up with solutions with very little initial information. On one Tornado accident it was solved by a slight change of tone in the background noise of the Cockpit Voice Recorder. On this occasion I guess the ‘Black Box’ helped. Btw I have always been a bit wary about the 12’ so I contacted a friend who witnessed the whole thing. He said he couldn’t be sure from his distance but he would have guessed less than 20’. Close enough. Cheers.

@user-io2et5bv2s

3 ай бұрын

@Johnbg81327. Close enough for Government work and, as with most pilots recollection of events, makes for a good story when pulling up a sandbag. Per ardua ad astra. 🫡

My name is Bill just wondering,I sponsored a name on the Battle of Britain, memorial on d London embankment he was Blenheim gunner from maybe Wexford or waterford.Is there any relationship.thanks.

@user-dq1xr2jy3e

4 ай бұрын

He was Grogan

@Johnbg81327.

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for your question. The answer is not that I know of. My father came from Enniskillen which is quite a way from Waterford and Grogan is quite a popular name in Ireland. Cheers

5,000 lb breaking strain cord for leg restaint WHY? I do hope they've reviewed & reset for something adequate but less lethal for current aircraft

@125brat

4 ай бұрын

The leg restraints are attached to the cockpit floor at one end and to straps around the ankle/lower leg at the other and pass through clips on the bottom of the seat pan iirc. When the seat fires and moved up the rail, the restraints pull the feet rearwards off the rudder pedals and lock them so the feet are clear of the instrument panel as the occupant leaves the aircraft. That jerk I would presume is quite forceful, so the leg restraints have to be pretty strong. Again iirc, they are severed by guillotines when the occupant separates from the seat so it falls away cleanly. Obviously in this instance, it didn't work as intended but John was very lucky not to lose his leg.

@Johnbg81327.

4 ай бұрын

Ah, that is interesting. I’d forgotten about the guillotine. My story comes from the AIB comments to me. Maybe the ‘caught in the DRing ‘ was not quite accurate. Similarly the 5000 lb breaking strain. It certainly needs to be strong because as well as what you described it also has to stop the legs flailing in a high speed ejection. Maybe it wasn’t as much as 5000 lb. Maybe someone from Martin Baker would know - I’ll give them a call. You may be interested to know that, according to the AIB, John my navigator pulled his handle milliseconds before me - which makes the ‘long wait’ for my ejection even more weird. Cheers

@125brat

3 ай бұрын

@@Johnbg81327. I would imagine the time between you pulling the handle once you'd made the decision to "Jettison the aircraft" and feeling the seat firing seemed like an hour especially being so close to the ground. Again, with the command eject set to both, the canopy has got to clear first (or does the MDC fire?, I can't remember to be honest) so the rear seat can leave, then the front seat is initiated. Either way, thank goodness you both made the same decision and survived. Well done Sir 😁

If the Bck Str hears the 3rd "Eject" he has waited too long. The Ejection Sequence in some aircraft has little forgiveness!!!