Oh, man, does that bring back memories. When I was a freshly minted embedded real-time software engineer in the mid '80's I was immediately tasked with programming all the GALs and PALs (using PALASM), since that "felt like software" to the old-school EEs (who were still transitioning to PC-based schematic capture). But that work sharpened my digital hardware skills, and got me deeply invested in moving functionality back and forth across the hardware/software divide, to get the most done with the smallest board and the least power consumption. Now we live in a wonderland for embedded design that ranges from discrete jelly-bean logic, to immense FPGAs, to low-power multi-core SoCs that include a shocking number of peripherals and application-programmable GPUs. Whew, what a ride!

Doesn't anyone notice that Dave looks a little young for someone who designed such a project 20 years ago?

@EEVblog

9 жыл бұрын

Stefan A You Sir just made my christmas card list!

@bernardshrevejr.

9 жыл бұрын

Stefan A Some people age with grace; I will be forty this year- Younger people judge my age to be a twenty-something year old. I just started college when Dave made this project.

@bobcunningham6953

9 жыл бұрын

Stefan A It's one of the many benefits of exercise, staying aggressively active and fit. I'm 58 and look nowhere close to it. Some part of it has to be genetics (my dad still looks great in his 80's), and another part has to be avoiding stupid eating (easy on the carbs, avoid processed food), but the rest is absolutely dominated by the contribution of staying fit. It was a chore for me until I started triathlon, now it is a joy that defines my lifestyle.

@electronicsNmore

9 жыл бұрын

Stefan A You can see Dave takes care of himself, and good Genes also help a lot. He is probably around 43.

@code123ns

9 жыл бұрын

electronicsNmore Yeah... either that or he's a time lord. Have you seen how skilled he is with a screw driver?

As a vintage computer enthusiast getting old software running can be a pain in the ass.

@tubical71

9 жыл бұрын

***** it´s (on most cases) by far more easier to buy an old machine to run the software native than atempt to make/have it running on today´s machines.....

@TheEPROM9

9 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Sadly not always possible though.

@alejandrosobrero60

9 жыл бұрын

***** Totally agree!! it's a good idea to have and old PC in the net for those cases.

Even as advanced as electronics have reached in scale today, the fundamentals remain valid. When my grandfather past away, his books on electronics were passed on to me and some of them dated back to 1948. In fact, he had a book that gleamed the Wheatstone bridge circuit as the latest Apple product!, but this circuit is still used today and has gone from dollars to pennies to make now.

I was born in 1996, that was not nearly 20 years ago. HOLY SHIT I'M ALMOST 20.

@EEVblog

9 жыл бұрын

Rob Mckennie Won't be long before your kid is borrowing the car keys...

@TheHunChem

9 жыл бұрын

Rob Mckennie You feel old, and you are 20. Imagine my father's face when we had our first beer together and I pointed it out to him.

@sirflimflam

9 жыл бұрын

Rob Mckennie My sister constantly reminds me how she's an adult now, having been born in 1995... Which is harsh for me because I was born 9 years before her. Her becoming an adult is a constant reminder that I've been an adult for over a decade now. Harsh feelings, man.

@budleyca1

9 жыл бұрын

Rob Mckennie Wish I were 20 again !!!

@ilike600baud

9 жыл бұрын

Rob Mckennie I'm turning 30 tomorrow. Time is short!

This video brings back some memories. Back in 1979 (or was it '78) I designed my own 100 channel data acquisition device. It had a trigger level and if any channel triggered all channels were fed into a commodore Pet computer. I used a 6502 microprocessor and a couple of PIAS. The whole mess was wire wrapped and on several cards in a rack card cage. I was in the last few years of a BSEE degree at the time. I finally graduated in 1980 after taking a final 400 level math course. Anyway, I entered it in the IEEE student paper contest and won third place. Thanks for all your great videos. I have been a code monkey for the last 30 years but miss the lab with scopes and spectrum analysers, etc...

When Dave is sleeping, his supercap is c­harging, when it is fully charged and dr­iving the base current of the transistor­, he wakes up in the morning......he sta­rts to work.......the lunch is acting l­ike a resistor and he feels like eating is resisting him from wo­rking and he is desperate to go back to the bench.......I mean Dave, you sleep elect­ronics, eat electronics, you work elect­ronics.....love you man! Oh the good old DOS days......everything you say make me nostalgic, really! We learned everything/electronics the hard way.......rather the fun way.......I wonder if I can make one of my son (yes, I'm blessed with two, first one- double the age of Sagan and second one half his age) get into electronics, I try to show him your videos and blogs, how enthusiastic one can be about electronics, how much you can be in love with these things and stuff like that! Electronics is fading away now a days.......anyways....really love your passion and knowledge. Keep going......keep up the porns for us.......

I've been looking everywhere for a Dave's Head simulator. You not only found the paper copy but the Dave's Head audio to narrate the simulation. Awesome. Last time I saw a Dave's Head simulator work was almost a week ago and the video Dave's Head outputs these days is pretty dang good!

Turbo Pascal was what I used to learn how to program at Uni back in the late 80s. Loved it. Moved up to C/C++ and off to the races as a professional programmer. Good memories!

Looking at computer stuff before my era is quite fascinating to me. The fact we went from having to model things like this on paper 20 years ago to simulating everything inside a program inside a true UI is amazing. My father gave me a "Computer Shopper" catalog from September 1991 and looking at it is quite simply fascinating and the fact the stuff we have today is something people 20-25+ years ago could never have imagined working. "You'll never carry around a calculator with you all the time" is a popular line from my elementary school teachers, but we have so much more. I carry around a 5.5" 1080p phone with a 2.5 GHz quad core processor and 3 gigs of ram with 16 GB memory and 4k video camera. That is simply unimaginable just two decades ago.

Thanks for sharing this project with us, Dave! Really excellent video.

Dave! Show us a picture of you when you were younger. Circa when you were doing this project.

@EEVblog

9 жыл бұрын

David Tamplen somewhere on twitter...

@iSolarSunrise

9 жыл бұрын

EEVblog Dave is this you in 1999? alternatezone.com/electronics/vcg.htm

@francistheodorecatte

9 жыл бұрын

iSolarSunrise Dave's hardly aged! We might have to out him as a vampire at this rate.

@jorno1994

9 жыл бұрын

EEVblog David Tamplen plenty of pictures here: alternatezone.com/electronics/personal.htm

@jorno1994

9 жыл бұрын

EEVblog you seem to like themed bathrooms: www.boondaburra.com/ Really like what you did in your house, you should talk about it in EEVblog2

It was fun seeing you get so excited, while walking down nostalgia lane. It was very interesting to see your design too. :)

Good to see DaveCad 95 still does the job!

You did this in '95/'96 so... your early 20's?! Crazy. Very impressive.

When my father died we was going thru his things and we found old electronic drawings from the 1960's witch he made when he was studying on the university. It was fun to look at since I have studied electronics as well.

Very nice, and I like that you got carried away and showed as much as you could! (kudos for saving so many files and devices to let it show again!) Question: in your publications of schematics on magazines (be it in the 1996 or nowadays), did you get interesting questions? If yes, could you make a video over those?

Lengthy yes, but damn fascinating! Cheers, Dave!

The problem with the old Borland programs is they used an empty loop for time delays.

Nice project for it's date and definitely deserved to be on front page . More magazine please ,no matter new or old.

Awesome! It's been a long time since I've seen Borland Pascal...

wow, as someone born in '97 seeing all these magazines and projects makes me wanna be born earlier :>. Fascinating dave!

The old Turbo/Borland Pascal bug which you hit is where the runtime library does a quick timing test to calibrate the Delay procedure... It counted how many times it looped in 1/18.2 seconds and computers faster than around 400MHz actually hit this bug.

actually there was a patcher for the output pascal .exe files to fix the Runtime error 200 - you didn't need to recompile but I think I found it in around 2000 or somesuch

@Gooberslot

9 жыл бұрын

666Tomato666 I can't belive they actually have a Wikipedia page for the old error 200. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_error_200

@AstralS7orm

9 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, the ancient timer issue. This is why nobody should use delay loops for timing nowadays. Even embedded hardware has clocks with interrupts.

@tjeulink

8 жыл бұрын

well they dont have that wikipedia page anymore sadly.

Great stuff Dave!

For anybody who is interested in the logic bits of this video, you might like the NAND2Tetris project. It starts you off with NAND gates, and you build a computer (that runs in a hardware simulator), develop a rudimentary OS, an assembler, compiler for a Java-like language, and eventually Tetris. It's quite fun!

I learned a lot on the tds220 scopes. Never new the where as old as i am.

Thanks to Logic Design class I'm taking right now, I can interpret these designs and understand what he says, first time I appreciate a class I'm taking as a student :D

thanks dave, was interesting to take a look at some dos pcb design tools.

My first ISA board Logic analyser was made by the German company DLI way back 1995 . Was running on Windows 95

It would probably be very intresting if you temporarily forgot that the old one exists, then design and build a contemporary one (with same goals, like being not too hard to do yourself) and then compare both (comparing used parts, and comparing the design style from back then and now)

You can tell these diagrams are 20 years old. They're way too neat for an experienced engineer.

Oh wow thanks for the nostalgia I remember using adv schematic pascal & Delphi in a job back in the early 90’s before I left Perth

I'm really good on archiving ancient stuff and sort of bulk indexing it. Some of my -Rs cds are turning yellow. I combined a lot of these CD-Rs into DVD-Rs and saved space when I did it. I don't care about the totally obsolete Linux versions going yellow though. Some stuff I am NEVER going to use like Red Hat 3 or slackware or like 1994 Corel draw or something, so I don't know why I keep it. One pretty cool program came with like a Sound Galaxy card, voyetra midi studio or something. When I got to win7 none of it descendants would work, so I found a Japanese program that does the same things mostly. Also I use 'kxproject' for my Audigy2, and the synth implementation does not work properly in win7, so I got some sort of soft synth with loadable soundfonts to mimic the former ability. The kx days are ending because the end of the emu 10k chips, but I have like sound dsp flowchart conifgs for different things I am using my computer for. Very nice to use...

Fancy full caps sourcecode :D. Really nice retro (I was playing in the sandbox at '95) insights for me. Thanks!

At my college we still use a number of TDS 210's though we also have a number of TDS 2001c's. Those are the work horses for basic digital/analog classes.

Haha! Those notes were made in the summer midway through high school for me... Aww.... Now I feel old... I was half way through high school when half these commenters say that they were born. LOVE the little diversion on the Tek scope. That thing really was revolutionary. Article was spot on! ◔ᴗ◔

I lot of the times I watch your videos and I am just in awe. I love the fact you used DOSBox to run your legacy projects; I am glad it had noble uses other than the games like I use it for haha!

Very Good done and worked super on analyzer Thanks

This is quite inspiring! Looks like I have to develop some projects and work hard to keep up at least with 20s-Dave ;)

Just want to say good job on thinking to switch to 50FPS. I didn't even watch the first 7 minutes of the video, I was just listening to it in the background, but when I came to check it out I immediately noticed it was better than 30FPS.

Around five years latter from when this project were published I would start to learn some electronics...

It smells like vintage :D hope so you showing us more of this.

I realize that this is an old video but I still write in Borland TP7.0. Even if you put the graph unit and the others in there the resulting compiled program would fail with runtime error 200. The CRT unit wasn't coded with the realization that computers would exceed 200MHz and the initialization code for the delay procedure would fail. TP7 still works great if you create or find a CRT unit replacement.

Simply Awesome

maybe you should do a modern version, based on an fpga, it would be interesting to see just how small and cheap it could be made today.

Nice trip down memory lane. :)

I used Pascal, at that times - was in technical university... also used Turbo Vision... you remember? was still text based interface for Pascal but one of the first Object Oriented Language... Delfi came later... And there was Borland C and C++ I think I still have a book with Borland C++... Oooo my...

I am 62 so good to see the old stuff I still use pascal ie Delphi !!!

Loved the nostalga here Dave......

Very interesting! Thanks :) The project is 1 year older than me :P

It's never a laughing matter when someone loses a dongle.

@8o86

5 жыл бұрын

dry as a dead dingo's dongle

Haha, a used TDS 220 is my one and only scope, it's nearly as old as I am! Good to see you like it too :P

And here you can see the first advanced prototype of DaveCad++ :))) bigger screen, bigger resolution, gridlines, true color, hardware accelerated line drawing, infinity part database, auto-routing, two side PCB support, quick analog and digital simulation :)))

started with Turbo Pascal7 - sweet memories....

Nice one for 747 ;) I´m still using Protel ´99 on a Win98SE machine for my hobby electronics..... I´m pretty fast with it, due to my special 4 axis input decive (a mouse with a trackball on top), so i can navigate cursor and sheet independently; never change a running system :) I hate BP V7.0 for this bug!, and never use these "StarterKits" again, as it all depends on the software, when the software refuses to load, you won´t be able to use the hardware.... Long time ago i bought a Motorola DSP EVM56k board, it was great but the software runns in DOS native only (no dosbox!) up to 5.x so you would need an old PC just for this board;) it was also very famous that days, even prof. synthesizers uses these boards... Thanx for this one Dave!!! :)

Have you tried running the software via DOSbox but reducing the emulated CPU frequency? I wonder if that's an easy way to get around that Pascal bug.

@RedwoodRhiadra

7 жыл бұрын

There are tools to patch the executables directly so you don't have to recompile: www.pcmicro.com/elebbs/faq/rte200.html

Those notes are from literally a few weeks before I was born :)

Hi Dave! I definitely agree with you! I am only 16 but I can tell you that you do learn a whole lot more when something goes wrong! I originally was just doing the raspberry pi and arduino thing until I realized that when something did not work, I had absolutely no clue how to troubleshoot it and figure out the source of the problem. I then started learning my basic electronics skills, heck I even went so far as to buy a copy of The Art of Electronics and read it from cover to cover. Anyways, thanks for all the awesome, informative and entertaining electronics videos! Keep up the good work! -Zack

I do kinda miss dos based programs with their keyboard short cuts, and no-nonsense menus.

This video makes me feel both nostalgic and old haha

I've started programming with B Pascal as well :D And it was over 20 years ago...

very nice latch headers Dave

We still use tds220 at school :) But we also have new Hameg 4000

I used to program in Pascal. Made a sniffer program in Pascal and later modded it to have encryption. Was crappy encryption but encryption nun the less :) Simply taking the ASCII character value and + a set number to it and writing the result to a file. Then do decrypted you just - the value :)

We still have TDS 210s in my school. Just in the basics lab, so the students don't destroy the more expensive ones right away.

Great video Dave, reminds me of when I designed and built an EPROM programmer using the parallel port and using qbasic as the software, it worked great unfortunately my project wasn’t as pretty as yours was built on vero board wires sprouting out everywhere, remember taking it to a job interview and the scared look on the HR type person doing the interview I’ll never forget as I took it out of my bag, hehehe probably thought it was a bomb strangely enough I didn’t get the job :-) love your channel really great

I started out using DC-CAD and I could jam out work using one hand on the mouse and the other hitting the hot keys without even thinking about it. BTW, the Borland CPU speed bug patch is a hot patch. You don't need to recompile the code, you just run the patch. The bug was in the start up code and is/was in a known area of the EXE file. I still have a copy of it just in case I have to reinstall some old Borland based tool. My old DOS cross compilers run just fine id DOSBox.

I will have to check tomorrow...but I think my University Department still uses those TDS220 scopes!

@DiJuMx2

9 жыл бұрын

Daniel Moran Nope, We have a couple of 210s and the rest are 1002s

Hey, Dave, I see some extensions on your Chrome that I don't recognize. What are they?

I remember that error in crt.tpu - I believe that runtime error was a "division by 0" caused by the CPU being "so fast" it measured 0 on time to run through a delay loop. Oh those times ;)

Good evening dave!

legacy dave :0) awesome , love the channel

ispLSI were discontinued? Damnit.. I've still got a few dozen of those around and planned to use them in an upcoming project. Any hints whether the programming software which supports that series can still be obtained?

@Ne3s23p2

7 жыл бұрын

Me too, have 1032's new old stock and looking for programming software : pDS (DOS) or IspDesignExpert 8.2 (Win 9X/NT).

I think you need to configure memory for speed in Autotrax. I remember my refresh being instant. See Silicon Chip "Hands-On PC Board Design For Beginners; Pt.1 - February 2004".

This is a good video!

great tube! I notice on ebay the TDS220 is selling for $500! crazy.

Hi Dave, use your minion to do a voiceover when you catch a cold, just write the stuff down and let him read it while you show and point with your hands

Cool, I'm already printing the schematics!!! Any plans of a new version with CPLDs or FPGAs?? Question they still use Delphi at Altium? By the way in Brazil people, still use delphi a lot :P

Aaaand now in 2020 I'm using TDS1012B oscilloscope. ))) So... It's definitely not bad.

That power supply section is a bit how ya doin'... Just kidding Dave, nice video. Maybe you could get your software re-compiled with the necessary patch and get it operational again?

Great to see. Same creativity and detail, but today's tools would save a lot of the repetitive work. And some of the useful thinking?

Heck, we used these TDS 220s in EE lab... a few years ago. Poland, so backwards. You seem to love the word "basically" Dave. It's anything but basic - pretty good design. You could replace these 72ACs with modern equivalents to solve the issue. And of course replace the CPLDs with modern small FPGAs. You can still do it the old schematic way, I've experimented with that in Xilinx and Altera tools - it still works. Why would you compile it in original Turbo Pascal when there's Free Pascal and is 100% compatible? :)

Omgwtflol?! I've just spent the last hour or so trying to figure out if I should spend $20 on the (discontinued) USBee AX for access to their PC suite or attempt soldering SMD's with JYT Tech's 1-Ch 200khz DSO138 DiY Kit for access to a nice TFT and Arm development board? And then I see the title on this EEVBlog, uploaded just a few hours ago...Exactly what I've been trying to understand about the USBee is the PC Based Logic Analyzer advantage and weather it grants access to an Oscilloscope portion of the software or not? 😟

Day, month, year. Thank you.

OOPS! EEVblog looks like you are pointing to the input buffers but are actually talking about the SRAM at 21:17 to 21:50. Gotcha! ;-)

I still use Autotrax on a Win 10 machine. Then its loaded into Altium to generate the gerbers!! I can generate a artwork 10 times faster than in Altium.

Actually your voice sounds much better today ;)

I use 5mm grid paper when laying out circuits for pad or stripboard, there's not that many tools for that on the market (or free for that matter), and it sometimes happen I go the TeukkaEDA(tm) route for very simple designs or ideas. A stack of gridded (and lined and blank) notepads is always useful. So, Davealyzer Mk I design notes ? *continues to watch*

just waiting to see if someone in the community made one of these.

This is cool!

717 hand-drilled holes.... phew! We really are spoiled rotten these days, with so many cheap PCB fabs to choose from.

@EEVblog

9 жыл бұрын

Fernrat No fancy drill press either, all with a small hand drill, I was very adept at it! It was all in the wrist action.

@BulletMagnet83

9 жыл бұрын

EEVblog And the tongue angle, no doubt! And to think I felt like the Big Man when my first boards came back from Seeed :P I do love seeing oldskool projects like this... makes a wonderful change from the constant barrage of IoT gadgets and reminds me why I got into the hobby in the first place!

@the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda

5 жыл бұрын

mos 6510 don't use tungsten carbide unless you've got a super steady drill press or CNC machine. They snap at the drop of an eyelash!! Even with a drill press, if the PCB moves sideways slightly, they are likely to snap. Go HSS all the way for hand drilling. But you'll need to sharpen them quite often. Like every 100 holes. The glass fibre is very abrasive to the HSS. A simple jig/holder can be made to sharpen drill bits down to 0mm. I saw it in a magazine once. Haven't searched for it on the information superhighway yet. Good stuff!

What did that LCD do to deserve all that poking around 40:00?

Hey! I'm still using lsi1016 with lpt download cable ;)

Used Protel at Practel electronics. Did you ever write programs to auto generate changes to text file pcb file. For like generating Buses or large Memory layout. Before Autotrax and was faster than autotrax for repeated layouts

hi dave, is there a modern chip that be utilised in place of the discontinued ones?. i know there are loads of cpld/dev kits could be made to work, but i want to know about direct replacements. thanks, aly.

@EEVblog

9 жыл бұрын

aly nicholls pin and package compatible, I don't know.

@zaprodk

9 жыл бұрын

aly nicholls The old devices can still be bought on eBay.

wow you worked on this on my second birthday XD

Runtime error 200 it's a bug in Crt module, not in grafics ;-)

"Who knows, the way things are going, TV and VCR service manuals of the future may have logic diagrams instead of CRO shots..." - Dave, you also predicted something in your article:D By the way Borland's GRAPH.TPU graphics library had absolutely terrible performance so I wonder why Protel used it in their software. My only guess is that it was easy to cater to most graphic cards because of these BGI driver files instead of doing it efficient way by writing straight to graphics memory (0x2000 segment or something?). Still I remember that after trying to do any decent graphics with that module I ended up writing assembler routines because responsiveness of interface was worse than damn Tektronix 4014 vector storage tube display...

@EEVblog

9 жыл бұрын

kroplaaaa I totally don't remember that!

Hmm make my old memories come back.