Hi! Railroader here! A few notes about defect detectors 1. Defect detectors do not tell you the temperature of your axles. If the temperatures are within accepted boundaries, you get this message: "Train _, Milepost _. Axles_. No defect. No defect." If you do have an overheated bearing, you do get this message: "Train _. Milepost _. Axles _. Defect axle _. Defect axle _. Stop your train. Stop your train." Again, you're not given the specifics of the nature of the defect just that you do have an issue that requires visual inspection. Some do also note speed, but it's up to the railroad. 2. Defect detectors are self-isolated. They do not transmit data from one detector to another nor do they transmit it to a centralized computer system. The stored information is usually self-wiped up and until an issue arises like an overheated bearing or dragged axle. At that point, MOW crews will come in and grab the data. 3. When I mentioned a train requiring a visual inspection, that duty falls squarely on the conductor. Since the 1990's, America's railroads have been operated solely by two guys: the engineer and conductor. By law, the engineer has to stay with his train to monitor the air brakes to make sure they don't accidentally release which has happened more often than you think. This means that the conductor has to walk the length of the train alone until he finds the problem and find a way to solve it by themself.

@Robert_McGarry_Poems

Жыл бұрын

Interesting. I read that most modern fault detectors have cameras that activate to record and transmit to the engine. If this is true, and I don't see why it wouldn't work, that could alleviate a ton of speculative argument about these types of accidents. That must be exactly why American freight rail does not use them. That antiquated 20+ year old tech is fine... They said.

@global2829

Жыл бұрын

So it reads the temperature and stores it locally, but only communicates a pass/fail? I wonder if that'd be worth changing in light of this accident. On the other hand, a "pass/fail" is simpler for the crew than getting exact numbers.

@caelumvaldovinos5318

Жыл бұрын

@Robert McGarry , those cameras only work if your locomotive has a computer screen on the conductor's desk that would allow him to monitor the train. Locomotives built after 1990 like the P42, SD70M, or AC4400-CW would have that technology either natively or by later upgrades. However, older models of locomotives like the SD40-2 and U33B do not have that tech. Also, those styles of defect detectors are relatively modern in comparison and they haven't seen that much of a rollout. Maybe with the stricter rules like Ohio requiring a defect detector every 10 miles we'll see more of that

@OutbackCatgirl

Жыл бұрын

@@global2829 lol as if they'd spend money on such things without having the government twist their arms

@rixille

Жыл бұрын

If I were a train engineer, i'd want to see more information than just "axle good, axle bad". Couldn't they just give the train engineer some kind of display in his cabin, which has car axle data transmitted to the display via telemetry from the defect detector so he can examine the temperatures and their trends himself with some kind of interactive user interface?

"If a car was as efficient as a train, its engine could fit in your pocket" is the single greatest argument for rail infrastructure I have ever heard.

@justindunlap1235

Жыл бұрын

Yep if I remember correctly it takes on average 1 gallon of fuel to transport 1 ton of freight 500 miles.

@southernflatland

Жыл бұрын

If a train had even 1/4 as many sensors as a modern vehicle, they might actually be safe too.

@A_barrel

Жыл бұрын

@@southernflatland a lilttle hyperbolic eh?

@southernflatland

Жыл бұрын

@@A_barrel Hey, your smartphone has anywhere from 20 to 50 or so sensors on it for everything under the sun, depending on what model phone you got anyways. Each train car has 8 wheels altogether right? It doesn't exactly seem like rocket science that a multi ton train car ought to have 8 thermal sensors and 8 microphones to monitor those wheels for thermal issues and obvious sounds of failing bearings, along with a wireless/cellular communication system to alert of a possible failure. I mean I dunno, maybe it's just me, but you'd figure in the year 2023, they might actually think about making the trains smart enough to be safe.

@orangutantapioca1530

Жыл бұрын

@@southernflatland Thing is, they have thought of that. But the cost would decrease their profits and the investors don’t like that so they instead run with generation-old technology and just pay out when it invariably fails. They’ve done the math and this costs less than making things safer. Never mind that it’s the lives of human beings at risk. The people making these choices will never bear any risk or legal responsibility for them. If you or I took similar risks by building our own vehicles, we’d be held responsible for the damages caused, but there’s no such thing as justice in the land of the free. This really is the worst timeline.

I would appreciate a video on what happens to the contaminated material that is removed from sites like this. It's all well and good to say that so-many thousands of tons of contaminated soil were removed, etc., but all that stuff has to go *somewhere*. It doesn't just vanish. So where does it go? How is it dealt with? What's the long-term fate of that contaminated material?

@CanadianWolverine

Жыл бұрын

An incinerator… which has environmental red flags of its own… and it’s not well understood what the long term impacts of that is.

@Truckie1245

Жыл бұрын

yeah, this would be interesting

@timhuester7721

Жыл бұрын

Most likely it's getting dumped at a landfill deemed as expendable. As a "gift for future generations. 5000 tons of material can't just be cleaned.

@deadfrontdm

Жыл бұрын

Injection wells and incinerators

@mikel9567

Жыл бұрын

Depends on the material. Most of it is incinerated, which actually isn't as harmful as some of the other commenters would have you believe. Incineration uses high heat which changes things chemically. A lot of the hazardous material gets broken down into less hazardous products and released. People fail to realize that at it's core, even the most dangerous chemicals are still made up of natural compounds. Break those compounds apart with heat and you change them into non hazardous compounds like CO2 for example. Materials that can't be released are scrubbed or the release is controlled so it won't overwhelm the environment. Chemicals that can't be incinerated are stored in vaults. This is what happens with Nuclear waste. Some chemicals can be cleaned out with scrubbers as well.

You can always do more railroad-related vids now, Grady. No need to wait for another accident. Railroads are fascinating pieces of engineering.

@sammyday3341

Жыл бұрын

I agree. That’s why I became a civil engineer with a specialty in RR engineering!

@johnymustacio

Жыл бұрын

no need to wait, there was another 2 crashes less than a week after this one

@abc-wv4in

10 ай бұрын

Yes, more about trains, please.

I worked for Frito-Lay for years. Every single day we got two rail cars of corn products and three rail cars of oil. For comparison, potatos took 10 - 15 full trucks per day. I can't exactly quantity the benefits of rail, but it took hundreds of trucks off the road, and was a huge cost savings.

@PsRohrbaugh

Жыл бұрын

Also, rail tanker cars are all basically identical. The tanker cars we got of corn oil & corn oil looked identical to the vinyl chloride ones in the derailment.

@Conservator.

Жыл бұрын

@@PsRohrbaugh They may have looked identical from the outside, but that doesn’t mean they were identical inside too.

@alveolate

Жыл бұрын

in terms of efficiency and cost, it is almost impossible to beat rail. that said, the risks are still very real when considering just how much hazardous cargo is in transit at any time, and how much of the tech seems to have stopped improving over the last few decades. (edit: by this, i meant that the latest improvements in tech have failed to show up in american rail... my bad for the phrasing) there is definitely room for vast improvement; but it is most likely being held back by inefficient management aka the monopolistic corporations running this industry.

@Yvolve

Жыл бұрын

@@alveolate The main thing here is that these accidents rarely happen outside of the US or developing nations, because the safety standards are much higher. Recently there were two major accidents. One in Greece, where the safety system was broken and someone made a mistake, causing 2 train to collide head-on. In the Netherlands a rail-crane operator was done with his night-shift and wanted to cross the tracks to get off and go home, but he got hit by an Intercity train. The crane operator died, everyone in the train survived although there were serious injuries. These are very rare though, while in the US there are derailments every month, if not more. The tech hasn't stopped, it just isn't used in the US.

@linkscarlet9094

Жыл бұрын

Potatos used to mostly be shipped by rail as well, but one of Norfolk Southern's predecessors, Penn Central, ruined that in much of the country after loosing an entire potato crop in a yard. Penn Central was particularly bad, but in many ways exhibits many of the problems starting to rear their ugly head once again.

The problem isn't the concept of freight rail, or the engineering that went into it. The problem is the duopoly you described, and that it runs on a philosophy of infinitely increasing profits. And these corps have huge influence over their regulators. I think it is extremely naïve to believe that this system will produce different results, even after high profile failures.

@blazertundra

Жыл бұрын

We need to go back to trustbusting like it's 1903 again.

@Galactis1

11 ай бұрын

The idea of infinite growth capitalism is a scam. Infinite growth does not exist.

What is kind of funny is that the PRD (Pressure Relief Device) actually means FART in my language (czech). What an accurate naming.

@GearheadExplorer85

2 ай бұрын

Lmao!!!!

There was a Chlorine gas spill from a derailment when I was 6 months old. But my Chemical Engineer Dad and I talked a lot about safety/accidents, etc. He once had to develop a railcar to transport "a nasty chemical" that they were considering using. I wanted to ask him a couple of things about this derailment but sadly cant anymore. Thanks for confirming what I suspected and adding a couple of specifics on top. P.s he liked your vids too.

@seth7745

Жыл бұрын

Most people don’t realize they are breathing chlorine gas when taking a hot shower. Low concentration, but you are breathing it none the less. Even more so in a public swimming pool. I cant stand pools for this reason.

@robertcampomizzi7988

Жыл бұрын

@@seth7745 are you confusing chlorine for fluoride?

@seth7745

Жыл бұрын

@@robertcampomizzi7988No. tap water is chlorinated and fluorinated. I don’t think the Fluorine concentration is nearly as high. And swimming pools are highly chlorinated.

@seth7745

Жыл бұрын

@@robertcampomizzi7988 I dont think the fluoride in tap water breaks down in to gas like the chorine does.

@robertcampomizzi7988

Жыл бұрын

@@seth7745 you're right.. I was just waking up when I replied... brain fart

Really would have liked you to point out when discussing the breaking of the train and the defect detectors that the train passed 5 detectors immediately before derailment. Only the first and last where operating properly. The company had dramatically reduced the number of maintenance technicians in the area. Maybe if those had been working, the train could have been stopped earlier and prevented the derailment.

@brianwest2775

Жыл бұрын

WOW! I was thinking that if the bearing can go from normal to failure within 3 detectors, then the detectors are too far apart. Faulty detectors helps explain that. That's very bad because they're obviously critical.

lets not forget that his happened soon after the railway unions strike was stopped by executive authority. The 2-3 people who are responsible for the safety of all 149 cars on the train don’t even have sick days. Over the past 20 years the rail industry has been actively cutting down on workers on each train while ballooning the amount of cars, leading to problems with oversight and potentially, safety.

@JohnMuise

Жыл бұрын

100% this.

@grimaffiliations3671

Жыл бұрын

Yup, almost every republican in congress voted against 7 days of sick leave. Ever Democrat voted for it. These Republicans need to be voted out

@gunnarwheeler6394

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely. These and other spills like it that happen all the time are the direct result of the worst type of greed. They haven’t fixed our updated much of the rail system in too long and the refuse to treat the people who work for railroad companies fairly. The whole thing really makes you sick especially when you dig a little bit deeper. Really depressing honestly

@tadferd4340

Жыл бұрын

Welcome to capitalism.

@BearsEatBeetz

Жыл бұрын

@@grimaffiliations3671 lol…. Just makes me laugh when I see the pot calling the kettle black. And… i hate politics.

Thanks for the video! Something to keep in mind is while Norfolk Southern is "meeting regulations" for cleanup and general operations, they have been dismantling regulation for years, so the actual requirements are much weaker than they probably should be. It's all about profits. And for companies like Norfolk Southern, paying for accidents and dealing with potential fatalities is better for their bottom line than trying to make sure those accidents don't happen in the first place.

@KippKipp

Жыл бұрын

One thing to add as well when it comes to paying for accidents, Norfolk Southern contracted a private company, CTEH, to conduct air quality tests. CTEH's air quality testing, especially when it comes to residents' homes, was unclear at best and at worst negligent, as it only tested for a limited number hazardous chemicals (VOCs). Despite the tests not having the expressed support of the EPA, the work technicians at CTEH performed became the basis for Norfolk Southern's attempts in reassuring the public.

@AB0BA_69

Жыл бұрын

Lmao yeah, like why would anyone believe Norfolk Southern? They're gonna do anything in their power to make this problem "go away". They should make Norfolk Southern executives drink the water from Easy Palestine for a full year.

@complimentary_voucher

Жыл бұрын

Absafuckinglutely. Oh hey, but it's not political, right???

@austinhernandez2716

Жыл бұрын

That's capitalism for you. It's destructive.

@Jacksparrow4986

Жыл бұрын

I would disagree. E.g. changing the messages from "no defect" to including the measured temperatures should be simple as hell, and with the numbers on the train you could apply 9th/10th grade math to do what one might call "predictive issue prevention" (when trying to sell it and charge $$$ for the software that does it) so the issue should have been noticed a lot sooner.

Hi! A railway signalling engineer from EUrope here. This is very interesting. The USA is a country that pioneered hot box detectors over 70 years ago. And now... I see we have much MUCH more advanced systems here in the EU, specifically in the Czech Republic. Our ASDEK defect sensors consist of several systems. There are flat wheel detectors on rails. These are important in Europe, as our trains are more braked, and freight cars are not yet widely equipped with anti-slip brake units. Temperature sensors are much more important. We use 8 sensors that measure bearing temperatures, but also wheel rim temperature sensor (the rim may occasionally unstick from the remainder of a wheelset. It usually gets very hot before destructive failure), brake-block temperature sensor (as few passenger carriages and a significant amount of freight cars are still not equipped by disc brakes), disc brakes temperature sensors (two or three brake discs mounted between wheels). But the most important thing is how we deal with data. All results - positive or negative - are immediately sent to a centralised diagnostic system. The system reads the consist (including carriage numbers) from the central train consist register and sends all data - including normal values. A dispatcher gets various levels of alert. If the box temperature is more than 48 degrees Celsius above a whole train average - the alert is issued to the dispatcher, and a train must be stopped at the closest possible location where the train would not block traffic. The same measure is followed when the temperature is more than 60 degrees Celsius above ambient temperature. When the temperature is more than 90 degrees Celsius above ambient, an immediate stop is mandatory. The dispatcher clicks on a train of concern, and sees the results of every single axle of a train, so he can direct the driver or conductor to the axle of concern. Well, I thought this is a standard practice all around the world, even in the USA.

@important9836

3 ай бұрын

Speaking from Canada, North America in general has a "cowboy" attitude towards safety even today. Our regulatory bodies are largely toothless, resulting in companies that are not monitored properly, and often fail to meet standards without consequence. If you ever visit North America, I invite you to take "The Canadian"- a cross country passenger train (the only one in Canada). It shows the grand scale and impressive natural beauty of our country. For those with more specialized knowledge like yourself, it will also show some pretty shocking infrastructure.

@keonyang3332

3 ай бұрын

Pretty much the same thing in America, theres an axle counter, draging equipment detector and, a hotbox censor, all you need. The bigger problem is why Norfolk Southern, the smallest and the cheapskate of the big 4 class 1s in the US, has fired over 300 workers in the past few years 3 of which being maintenance workers of that line.

@grn1

Ай бұрын

I've heard before than passenger rail in the US basically has to be subsidized because it isn't profitable and while I'd think freight rail would be more profitable there are still a lot of cost to consider. Of course I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it's just an issue of companies not wanting to put money into better systems and regulatory agencies not having the teeth to force the issue. Most big American companies are publicly traded and heavily incentivized to do everything they can to earn profits in the short term and keep the investors happy instead of investing in the long term and trying to be stable/sustainable (publicly traded companies are inherently unstable and can never truly become stable).

@important9836

Ай бұрын

​@@grn1 It's true. In Canada, the single cross-country passenger train operates at a massive loss, even with first class tickets costing over $2000/person. There are a variety of factors that lead to this of course.

@benjaminmorris4962

Ай бұрын

Pretty much all current infrastructure in the US is HIGHLY outdated... And it's also common for infrastructure to be installed improperly or be long neglected...

its safer by 8x, but what makes it look worse on the surface is that the accidents are so huge, its like 15 truck accidents all at once in the same spot. so at surface level it seems worse when an accident does happen here and there, but you just cannot ignore just how much gets moved everyday without incident

@justindunlap1235

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, and most rail accidents/ derailments are so minor and without loss of life that they never make the news.

@KainYusanagi

Жыл бұрын

@@justindunlap1235 This. They also typically happen in rail yards where there's all the switchbacks and transfers and such, and it's all moving generally slowly, too.

@HotTacticalBoyfriendOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Similar to air travel then: statistically very safe, but the few accidents that do occur tend to be catastrophic.

@americankid7782

Жыл бұрын

A rule of thumb for transport systems is that if you can name specific crashes or incidents, it’s usually quite safe. I can say Boeing Flight 111 and you will most likely be able to figure out what incident I am referring to. But if I say Crash on May 13th in Miniapolis, you will have to ask “witch one”

@kds5065

Жыл бұрын

Rails are safer than trucking. And pipelines are safer than rails.

Reminds me of the Lac-Megantic derailment in Quebec, Canada back in 2013. Over 40 lives lost and a huge swath of real estate was obliterated. Very sad. It’s an interesting read for anyone into in disaster forensics.

@wich1

Жыл бұрын

Fascinating Horror has a great youtube mini-doc on the topic

@FuckYouTube385

Жыл бұрын

I remember when that disaster happened. It’s still a contentious topic in Canadian politics when it comes to moving crude oil via rail in dense cities.

@pcbigfile

Жыл бұрын

in July this year it will be the 10th anniversary of Mégantic derailment , and guess what ... nothing change. Good luck to East Palestine citizens

@onyxpartitian

Жыл бұрын

​@@pcbigfileI know CN changed the handbrake requirement rules because of it. Could be FRA wide but they explain what happened and how to avoid it again to every new hire.

@DrewNorthup

Жыл бұрын

When people groused about the vent & burn of the recent incident Lac-Megantic is what I brought up to explain why an overpressure is not to be tempted.

A better explanation than any news report that I saw while this was happening. We need more of this. Simple facts and explanation of what happened.

There was a large railroad tanker explosion in my Hometown of Kingman, Arizona in 1973 claiming the lives of 11 firefighters, one rail worker, and one Arizona State Trooper. This massive propane explosion ushered in many safety changes for the railroad industry and the propane industry. I agree that this event will also help to create new policies and procedures. Great video Grady!

@nomore6167

Жыл бұрын

"I agree that this event will also help to create new policies and procedures" - Unfortunately, that means nothing if the rail companies have so much power that they can ignore regulations and get away with a slap on the wrist at most. It also doesn't help when one of the two political parties is against regulations of any kind. The world today is much different than it was in 1973, especially politically.

@jonslg240

Жыл бұрын

A simple algorithm (e.g. "A.I." to the people who think "the cloud" is a magical version of online storage) would have figured out the axle was heating up in time to stop this before it happened. Even the system in place should have caught it, because an algorithm isn't even required at all. The "thresholds" in place aren't good enough, and an axle heating up 30 then 100 deg over ambient should have been enough to cause enough alarm for them to stop the train and check it out. They really should have had the heat sensors be far less tha10miles apart since they're transporting hazardous materials. The sensors should be built into the cars and feed into the engineer compartment instead of being on the tracks. The ones every 10 miles should be a fail safe if anything.

@oldtimefarmboy617

Жыл бұрын

@@nomore6167 That one party is not against regulation, they are against micro-regulation by bureaucrats who are always ignorant of what they want to regulate and often write contradicting regulations and create complexities that actually make things less safe.

@oldtimefarmboy617

Жыл бұрын

@@jonslg240 Rail cars are often vandalized. What do you think people with too much time on their hands will do to the sensors and transmitters. And they have to have a power source as well which means running easily cut wiring that can be sold for the copper or aluminum inside it.

@callsignapollo_

Жыл бұрын

​@Old Time Farm Boy so, if that happens, *replace the sensors* Dont cry that it'll cost the poor rail barons too much money either. NS *specifically* has spent millions in lobbying for deregulation so they could run trains like this with minimal safety checks and workers onboard working insanely long and unforgiving schedules. Thats why this happened.

It blows my mind that the rate of change of wheel bearing temperature is apparently not considered by the monitoring system

@haruhisuzumiya6650

Жыл бұрын

Deregulation

@Kesh789

Жыл бұрын

@@haruhisuzumiya6650 Yep, we had regulations being rolled out that would very likely as stopped this. They were removed by Trump.

@brianjonker510

Жыл бұрын

Precisely. It seems so obvious to this small time farmer a large increase in bearing temp is a red flag

@pootispiker2866

Жыл бұрын

A rate of change of that degree is actually very common and often exceeded when braking hard with air brakes. THe wheel gets hot thanks to the friction. If it's 40 degrees out and the wheel is roughly that temperature at one detector, then you have a 10mph slow order very close to where another happens to be, your wheel temperatures very well may exceed 150 or even 200F if you have to slow from 55MPH with a heavy train. Rate of change monitoring isn't done because it would cause far too many false alarms, and in time, complancency.

@GilmerJohn

Жыл бұрын

One would hope that the crew would have taken notes and taken the decision that someone was "going South." The trackside detector just transmits an computer generated audio report. In the era where central train control is close to being mandated, it might make sense to coordinate these trackside reports. Of course, it's possible to over focus on the particular cause of this particular wreck. De-rails are almost routine.

Not too long after this incident, another train derailed right behind my uncle's house here in Detroit. He's safe and the tankers carrying hazardous materials didn't spill, but he said the sound itself scared the hell out of him. I grew up watching the same train every time it passed, and me and my mum would sometimes put pennies on the tracks to squish them, so I have a deep seated appreciation for our trains here. They have an awesome impact and I hate seeing people demonize them. I'd much rather our transport be in trains than on the road, and I hope it stays that way for safety and price. Train derailment is bad, and I hope things will get updated, but I still fully support our rails. Still to this day, whenever I get the chance, I always wave at the train drivers. Most of the times they'll wave back or honk the horn, but they still look confused as to why some random dude is waving. Thanks for this video, I really appreciate your down to earth take on it, and hopefully this impacts people's opinions of our rails positively. All the news ever does is fear mongering and finger pointing, yours is so much better, too bad you can't be broadcasted!

@GooogleGoglee

Жыл бұрын

Trains is much better than road transportation yes... But the lack of maintenance and management aiming to high profits cutting costs is the big problem here and all over...

@Wozza365

Жыл бұрын

This derailment had a devastating effect, and yet the long term toll is still going to be less than a single year of deaths from cars.

@JenkemSuperfan

Жыл бұрын

Nobody is demonizing trains, we are calling for exactly what rail workers have been calling for for decades: increased safety regulations on all rain companies which are strongly enforced.

@jdgindustries2734

Жыл бұрын

​@@Mrright87 so why did Grady of all people not mention that fact?

@HercadosP

Жыл бұрын

Trains are for communism

The video you reference at 5:08 is in Salem OH 20+ miles away. The car was on fire for more than a few "moments before the derailment." I live in East Palestine.

Hello there, another railroader. Great video although there is some stuff that could be changed. 1. Cabooses weren’t traded in for defect detectors. They were traded for something called a EOTD (End of train device) or a FRED ( Flashing rear end Device) which measure stuff like air pressure, speed and amounts of slack on a train. Defect detectors have been around since the late 70s. 2. Railroads transport dangerous chemicals such as Vinyl Chloride all the time. Every single rail line at some point in time has seen chemicals transported on their rails. Plus railroads like NS tend to transport chemicals with other bulk commodities like food, etc. This is common practice especially on the NS Fort Wayne line where the derailment happened That’s all I got to say. Keep making great videos. Thanks

@keonyang3332

3 ай бұрын

A little note to add the Seaboard System actually had these in the 60s. First being invented the late 40s.

Really cool seeing Distant Signal featured here! He's got lots of train related explainer type videos if anyone is interested and the clip featured is from a great explainer of how the defect detectors work.

@cedricrummell5986

Жыл бұрын

I thought that detector stuff was from his video about them.

@rodchallis8031

Жыл бұрын

I saw conditions on a RR track that had me wondering just how safe it was, but I knew nothing about such things. In searching, I came across "ccrx 6700" on youtube. He helps maintain an isolated rail line that serves a coal mine. He's my go to for learning about track maintenance, rail defects, etc.

@MakeItWithCalvin

Жыл бұрын

Danny does some A+ railfanning videos and videos on how the various RR equipment works too.

Railroader here! Grady You didn't mention the EOTDs. These are the boxes setting on the coupler on the last car of the train.. It measures pressure in the trainline, monitors mph at the rear and has the capability of setting brakes from the rear forward. This combined with detectors replaced the Caboose.

@schulb72

Жыл бұрын

Curious as to why the braking triggered the actual derailment. Seems like a faulty system if that's the outcome? I would expect it slows the train gradually

@Mrright87

Жыл бұрын

@schulb72 Braking didn't trigger it. It was the derailment that triggered the emergency brakes via air hose separation. I'm still puzzled as to why people and mainstream news are making clames regarding brakes

@schulb72

Жыл бұрын

The way its explained in his video is that the axle overheated, suggesting to stop the train but before they could the emergency system kicked in. If separation or derailment was the initial event, the question still stands: how did the train come off the tracks? The axle overheated and.... broke off?

@Mrright87

Жыл бұрын

@schulb72 Yes that's ultimately what happened. The bearing got so hot it locked the axle up causing it to snap, creating a domino effect with other cars derailing them. This was happening as the engineer was slowing the train using dynamic brakes

@Mrright87

Жыл бұрын

@schulb72 Most of this was on the NTSB report. I also know how these things work because I've been in an accident myself. If I were operating the Ohio train I would have done the same as this engineer

There definitely is something that can be done politically about the safety culture for the US Class 1 Railroads, and something was attempted about half a year ago, the big rail union strikes, while also being about draconian working conditions, were about safety on the line. These things were raised to the rail operators and of course they were soundly ignored because re-investing in rail infrastructure takes away from the scheme of pumping stock prices with stock buybacks and creating a circlejerk of money for the board members of companies like Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern.

@jack-dh9hs

Жыл бұрын

Capitalism :D

@fett4life250

Жыл бұрын

😊😊

@diegoochoa572

Жыл бұрын

dont worry, though, this will "spark a conversation" That's all we need. That always fixes these political issues, right?

@Miss_Trillium

Жыл бұрын

​@@diegoochoa572 just thought thoughts and prayers

@Zeakthecat

Жыл бұрын

@@jack-dh9hs not even that, just corporatism. :P

My children, my loved one and I live only 12 miles from EP. When I speak about the impact this will have on the health of residents 10-20 year from now, specifically on their livers from vinylchloride, no one seems to really care to listen or cares at all to what I have been trying to inform them about. I for myself, my children and the woman I love and have been with for 19 year are moving far away from this area.

@HanmaHeiro

Жыл бұрын

Thank goodness you have the ability to move away. I wish you and all affected luck. Hopefully the awareness of the issue doesn't fall by the way side for these people

@Secret_Takodachi

Жыл бұрын

America doesn't care about preventing problems, they find it more profitable to "fix" them. I'm sorry to hear about your family. I know my family is seriously looking into leaving the United States because we don't see this country getting better. We're honestly trying to find a way out and I don't think we're alone.

Grady, I have no doubt the engineers who worked on the reports you cite must be glad you've brought their findings to a broader audience. I think your timing was great. Waiting for the highly biased and unfocused media cycle to slow down (but not too long, so the events are still present in people's minds) is a wise choice. Educating the public on the technical side of the accident is the only sensible basis for real and beneficial policy change. The presentation was top notch as always. I sincerely hope you channel keeps growing and reaching more people. This kind of content is what our world needs if we'll ever get to see a cultural renaissance bringing people together to work on the biggest challenges of our present and our future. That is my ultimate dream, the epitome of true progress.

@dexterrity

Жыл бұрын

Hear, hear

@Mongolold

Жыл бұрын

Except the issue is not solely technical. How is policy supposed to change without discussing the current policy?

@kevincarlos973

Жыл бұрын

@@Mongolold I said the basis, the first step. Of course discussing policy is an extremely important part of the process. But it should never be done without actual knowledge of the issue at hand. Otherwise how could it be a useful discussion?

These train accidents were predicted in a book written 70 years ago: Thomas the Tank Engine.

@basikwashman

Жыл бұрын

This derailment caused confusion and delay

@nnelg8139

Жыл бұрын

Nostrathomas.

@user-op8fg3ny3j

Жыл бұрын

@@basikwashman The Fat Controller Laughed, "You Are Wrong"

@PsRohrbaugh

Жыл бұрын

I love the George Carlin edits mixing the show and his stand-up comedy.

@marklundeberg7006

Жыл бұрын

Those troublesome trucks!

I found your video after a search for East Palestine Ohio NTSB. My son & his family closed on their house just 4 days before the toxic disaster. Their water source is a private well & they are just 19 miles south of East Palestine. 😕 Thank you for presenting this information clearly & in an easy to understand manner. I would like to see more about the methods used to "clean" the surface water (Sulphur Run Creek, Leslie Run Creek & Little Beaver Creek). In some places, they sprayed the creek water up into the air so the toxic chemicals would separate from the water & disperse through the air??? I'm not a chemist, but it seems to me that would put some of the chemicals back into the air where people would breathe it in. I'm going to look for more info about Hydrogeology in the area. Thanks again.

@indefin3d

9 ай бұрын

Be careful, it's highly toxic.

@user-mc6dg6qe8l

4 ай бұрын

Their basically abunch of kids playing with toys they don't understand hoping the theater will appease us. Take control of your water supply and run it through filters designed to treat such pollutants. You can choose inline/plumbing filters (literally apart of your plumbing system) or beaker type filters. Air inside homes is also fairly contaminated by itself so there's no harm in using air filters or getting certain pollution absorbing plants.

Hoping the Chemical Safety Board will release a video on this once all the investigations have been made. In the meantime, this was an excellent video!

@DroptheBassForJesusSake

9 ай бұрын

If it shows them in a bad light they won't release any info themselves unless forced

Engineer doing the job that used to be of journalists, what a world we live in. Thanks for bringing out the actual info.

@ZGryphon

Жыл бұрын

Rather that than the other way around...

@TheDanEdwards

Жыл бұрын

Journalists have covered this story.

@westrim

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDanEdwards Not well. I've seen a few dozen stories about this. I can count on one finger the number of those stories that clarified that burning the chemicals was a safety measure to destroy and dilute them. The rest basically let the popular misconception that it was a mistake that unnecessarily spread harm stand.

I watched this on Nebula yesterday and I have to say how thankful I am that you covered this. I have family that lives just blocks away from the derailment and the unknown has been a huge stressor for everyone. The amount of misinformation out there is out of control and it has brought me some comfort hearing the facts from someone I trust. EP is a second home to me and it really is a quaint little sweet town. Other channels have not done the town or the people justice. You kept it objective. Thank you.

@csehszlovakze

Жыл бұрын

the only news source not pushing misinfo is The Last American Vagabond

@misterhat5823

Жыл бұрын

@@csehszlovakze You're kidding me. Misinfo and tinfoil hats are what they're known for.

@producerk8247

Жыл бұрын

@@csehszlovakze KZread This: StatusCoup

@EdwardUkeh-uv7or

Жыл бұрын

Hi sir I'm a student in Nigeria but I need help to study

@FeralRC

Жыл бұрын

@@EdwardUkeh-uv7or cool story. Good luck with that, bud.

I work for a water department about ten miles from the site of the derailment, and have a coworker who is also a firefighter who was on site at the derailment. We’ve been testing water from wells all over the area and thankfully so far everything has been clear of chemicals released in the derailment. Thank you very much for this informative video that takes an even approach to the events of the incident itself and not the tumult surrounding it.

@GooogleGoglee

Жыл бұрын

Who knows about what has been unfortunately released in the air and brought who knows where and we will ingest soon that since it probably went on crops that we will eat or animal food that will be a part of the food chain..

@connorwright7685

Жыл бұрын

im an east palestine firefighter, who is your co worker I wonder If i may have seen him there.

@AB0BA_69

Жыл бұрын

You seriously believe that, bro? You gonna drink that water yourself? LMAO. 😂

@johnthumble5154

Жыл бұрын

Yeah totally not a Fed 😂

@midship_nc

Жыл бұрын

The combination of the general public having, at best, very limited knowledge of chemicals and their properties, media wanting to sell advertising time and politicians/media using an accident for political gain. These are the most dangerous aspects of the accident...I would be less worried about a chemical release and more concerned with who is trying to make money with it.

Railway workers warned that something like this would happen, and sadly it did. Most likely, it will happen again, either accidentally or by intention.

The derailment occurred alongside a tributary of the Ohio River. Letting the acrylate and vinyl chloride spill flow down the slope into the river was more awful than flaring it off, even with the ensuing toxic cloud billowing across the town. I think Norfolk Southern needs to buy out a town at fair market value. The cost benefit analysis for precision rail scheduling needs to factor in economic losses of bystanders.

@hershelshochter4703

Жыл бұрын

local and federal government dragged their feet

@wematanye533

Жыл бұрын

​@@hershelshochter4703 dragged their feet while trying to respond to a major disaster caused by a private company which contributed nothing to their emergency preparedness programs

@poisonpotato1

Жыл бұрын

They need to pay above fair market value because it's value is lower than what it was

@Mystery_G

Жыл бұрын

Or the CEO, and its board along with all State and Federal officials responsible lose their pension and go to prison for the compensatory damage to life and the environment. But of course, were that to happen, it would suggest the people who run the corporation and regulators are responsible for the corporation, which everyone knows is an impossibility when acknowledging that corporations are not only people but incapable of being held to the same account as actual people. Point being: continued profits to be gained by actual people from corporate crime can always be justified and accounted for as "Oops." A marvelous feat of 'political engineering'.

@Mageroeth

Жыл бұрын

I agree except one thing fair market value before the incident not after. As there derailment has completely wrecked the value of that location.

Two things I wanna mention: First a minor nitpick: If I recall correctly from the report I read from the NTSB, the train crew had the locomotives in dynamic braking, which I believe is NS procedure. Dynamic braking uses the traction motors on the locomotive to slow down the train by converting them from motors generators. The advantage of using that in this case, is dynamic braking doesn't put any additional stress on the axles (and wheel bearings) After getting the warning about a hot axle, the crew put the locomotives into full dynamics and shortly after the event recorder showed the locomotives air brake system dumping into emergency. It's a tiny nitpick that doesn't do much to change anything you said, but I did want to mention it. Second: thank you for mentioning the burning hazmat chemicals is done to reduce the risk because it either destroys them or at least makes them easier to spread out, which makes it more dilute and less harmful. The number of people that freaked out saying it would spread "far and wide" and didn't understand that diluting the chemicals was the best option given what they knew at the time is very depressing.

I worked as a contractor, driving rail crews from the yard to trains on sidings, or vice versa. It wasn't part of the job, but I would sit there as the train pulled off, listening to the sounds of the bogies. If I heard something off, such as grinding from a bearing or hanging brake, or a flat spot on a wheel, I'd write down the car number and turn it in at the end of my shift to the rail master. Dude bought me lunch every once in a while when they caught a smoking bearing from my notes. I think he said that one case saved them over 20k in fines as that train was stopped just before entering a coal fired power plant. Had it gotten on site hot, it would have shut down the dump station until the rail company could get a crew into the plant to deal with it. Catching it off site meant the rail crew could work on it on a siding without stopping the flow of coal.

@DrZygote214

Жыл бұрын

Was this before or after deregulation?

@CanadianWolverine

Жыл бұрын

You clearly deserved to be fairly compensated for your work.

There’s so many ifs in this story that could have prevented the accident: in the bigger picture, legislation against monopoly and cartels, including separation between railway (infrastructure) and carriers, but in the gear aspect, if only the defect detectors cared about change temperature instead of only current temperature, it would be prevented; instead the media are talking about using better breaks, when in this case breaking hard WAS part of the problem

There was a lot of noise when then UK started transporting nuclear waste via rail, to prove it was safe they crashed a loco at full tilt into the special transport truck and it did not fail and leak anything.

@davidty2006

Жыл бұрын

And just for good measure in operation that container is surrounded by an extra armoured box and the train is short with a spare locomotive just so it can keep moving

@TheROOTminus1

Жыл бұрын

Operation: Smash Hit. Legendary video. Brain child of the public relations office of the Central Electricity Generation Board (CEGB), the place of employment at the time of the late, great Sir Terry Pratchett

@TheROOTminus1

Жыл бұрын

@@naamadossantossilva4736 What OP is getting at is that it's all about safety culture being ingrained into every level of corporations. Nuclear gets seen as a big bad, so has to adhere to such an engineered degree of safety in order to be accepted that it's almost priced out as an option. Persistent toxic chemicals like VC are background noise in public perception so get away with such lax safety controls that incidents like these occur so commonly people only remember the most recent events.

@bmay8818

Жыл бұрын

We *could* transport everything in those casks used for nuclear waste, and it'd effectively eliminate accidents like this, but it would increase the cost of goods by an order of magnitude. But yeah, those videos of casks getting train-blasted are great!

Even when there isn't a derailment other disasters could occur. A couple of years ago our town was fighting grass fires on the tracks running through the middle of the town. They hadn't cut back the underbrush, they hadn't stopped the failing train.

@thatoneguy6555

Жыл бұрын

Now days there are special MOW trains for cutting and spraying brush on tracks on most class ones. But on short-lines sometimes they don't have the equipment or funds do that.

Grady, I know you're an extremely busy family man,so you probably don't get a lot of spare time to actually read the comments, but in the off-chance you do...I just wanted to exend a great big THANK YOU to you. These are, without a doubt, hands-down, by far, THE BEST videos available on here helping to simplify & explain to the average person, including dummies like myself, how every day life works in this great big, giant world we navigate on a daily basis...yet hardly ever think about or actually even pay much attention to, as far as how it was designed, manufactured & created lust for us & to make our lives a WHOLE LOT easier. So again...THANK YOU!!

Grady, your intro section is EXACTLY why I came to this video. I know you're going to give a real explanation of the technical facts, and a very realistic perspective and discussion of regulations.

@EdwardUkeh-uv7or

Жыл бұрын

Hi sir I'm a student in Nigeria but I need help to study more please help me

I have lived with a CSX train that runs along the edge of back yard for over 20 years and I can tell you a couple of things I know to be true. The lengths of these trains have increased dramatically. Sometimes there are as many as 4 engines at the front of the train and it can take them 30 mins to completely run by my house. This seems kind of insane to me. They run just as frequently, they are just a lot longer. I try not to stress about what they carry, but there are often tanker cars in the mix.

@LeviathantheMighty

Жыл бұрын

It might be good to have different levels of bug out bags ready. From, hmm, a minor spill, all the way to, 'Oh no! gill Bates just poisoned this land so he can control more farmland and force people to eat insects!' or 'East Palestine 2.0!!'

@g00rb4u

Жыл бұрын

What benefit do you envision to be from running shorter trains? In this case, it was 1 car that was defective out of 129. Even if it was 1 car out of 29, the failure still would have occured. Longer trains are more fuel efficient.

@bocahdongo7769

Жыл бұрын

Thanks to new policies of making the train much much much longer so the operational cost could be reduce dramatically. To the point that it kill passenger train in US because it can't be prioritize because the freight train is just too long for passing switch. It getting much worse because somehow, for some reason, some people defend this practice because "it's fine and will induce efficiency" or whatever.

@uninterestedcat8429

Жыл бұрын

​@@g00rb4u they didnt say that, nor did they ask.

@Boardwoards

Жыл бұрын

@@g00rb4u so you see, a 5 mile long train has more chance to derail with less eyes per car and when things do go wrong it's an even bigger poroblem. just mathematically terrible since we didn't build for that or use 20 person crews.

I'd be interested in your take on the various DOT tank cars. These weren't the special 113 haz mat cars, but even the 113 cars have been punctured easily when tested at the Pueblo testing facility.

Just to be clear, the security video comes from Butech in Salem. Salem is about 24 miles of rail away from East Palestine. So this car was having problems coming into Salem, then continued on a 30-45 minute journey through Leetonia, Columbiana and past New Waterford before making it to the derailment site. The way it's worded makes it sound like the footage comes from moments before, but it was a while.

@dougsscalemodels

Жыл бұрын

Because it fits the narrative of a"sudden" bearing failure. But in reality it was a BRAKE failure that caused an axle to drag for 24+ miles. Neither Norfolk Southern or the NTSB mention a hot WHEEL detector, only hot BEARING detectors. There is a difference, a hot bearing detector has an infrared camera focused on the bearing journal area(center of axle), a hot wheel detector has the infrared camera focused on the wheel nearer the flange. That is precisely why it took so long for the hot bearing detector to register the "hot bearing". A train wheel has a lot of mass and it takes time for heat generated at the outer circumference to make it to the center.

I could smell this in Massachusetts. Also worth noting: "safe" levels of various chemicals are all well and good for people who don't have underlying health issues. For those who do, it can still be a problem.

Love you, Grady. Yet another calm informed view into a current event. Excellent work.

My dad worked for the Milwaukee Road from the 1950s into the 1960s. I had a foster brother who worked for another RR in the late 1970s. These jobs were considered some of the best out there, with fantastic benefits and strong unions. Even before this tragedy, railroads had been in the news because of the pending strike railroad workers were threatening before the last election. For political reasons, the strike was stopped. But when I would read about the things the workers were asking for, I was pretty shocked at how things have changed. As in so many other industries, short term benefits for shareholders has become, it seems, the only concern. Fewer workers doing more work, with fewer benefits. Mergers that lead to even more power and profit for a small number of people. Slashing of investment in rail maintenance and rolling stock (which would be a great topic for another video). Knowing all of this made a disaster like this much more likely, if not inevitable. Is this just an example of the price we need to pay for the materials that railroads carry? I sure don't think so. Again like many other industries, railroads have been very profitable over the past several years. Some of that profit needs to be put into making sure they are safer. From everything I understand, the investments that have been delayed will absolutely have to be made eventually. It's my belief that regulators need to do much more to get them done sooner than later.

@complimentary_voucher

Жыл бұрын

Yep, I totally agree. This is a political as well as a practical problem, something this piece skipped over, probably so as not to upset all the right-leaning truck humpers who watch stuff like this. Already super rich people infected with the sickness of greed (thanks, Last of the Mohicans, that quote is everything).

@RCAvhstape

Жыл бұрын

@@complimentary_voucher Good thing you're here with the courage Grady lacks to talk about truck-humping.

@OmnifyMyAss

Жыл бұрын

Move regulators and their families into East Palestine, see how fast things can progress

@aaronleverton4221

Жыл бұрын

@@OmnifyMyAss Move the Board, the CEO and COO into East Palestine and see how fast things can progress. Regulators can only enforce the minimum the law demands.

@OmnifyMyAss

Жыл бұрын

@@aaronleverton4221 well, with how much money the board, ceo and the rest of company management have - they can incapsulate themselves, build bunkers and order everything of their necessity directly to their door - i suppose they can elude consequences to their health just by sheer amount of money alone. Can't say the same about the government officials. That's why it is always wise to put a "grounded" person in charge since they can see a more "people" situation rather than look over it. Hard to bribe a person who's knees deep in chemical catastrophe. This discussion is just a fantasy, obviously. US government is driven by greed and greed alone. It is not about the People of this country, not anymore, if it was at all at some point in history

As someone who lives in the next town over and met both firefighters and residents of East Palestine it was horrific to hear the details as this was all happening. I’m in East Liverpool and we are worried about the contaminated water because we are on the route of the ground water from East Palestine to the Ohio River.

Unfortunate event, but excellent video. The internet needs more educators like you!

You should do a follow up later on how the situation is progressing and all the downstream effects. It’s been interesting following the debate about where contaminated soil and water will be taken to the treated. Also random accidents like a truck full of contaminated soil overturning on a highway. It’s easy so say they’re going to “clean up” an area but just like flushing your toilet might make it disappear from your view there are so many interesting engineering challenges to actually make that happen.

@kaptivatingstudios676

Жыл бұрын

Why is it just “interesting”. Why is their a complacency and just blasé attitude to direct and indirect poisoning? Why aren’t people livid about chemicals being blown up without consent? Are they just test subjects for underegulated rail company’s? Why do 5,000 lives just get to be a story in a textbook, just totally acting like horrible management is a thing of the past while it is happening to our peers and contemporaries?

From an engineering perspective, 200 degrees above ambient is likely too high of a maximum trip point. Particularly because none of the other bearings were anywhere near that temperature. The difference between various bearings should have signalled a fault condition. In addition, the temperature delta from one check point to the next should have also triggered a fault condition. A temperature rising that fast should always be cause for concern. The automated monitoring system is either woefully inadequate, or configured to be near negligent.

@radnukespeoplesminds

Жыл бұрын

I mean the system right now is massive numbers of rail cars with minimal crew thanks to precision scheduled railroading and from the video it seems like the crew would have to manually track temperatures for every car since its a basic radio system.

@KainYusanagi

Жыл бұрын

@@radnukespeoplesminds As per a railroader in the comments above, two-man crews have been standard since the 90's. Additionally, it doesn't check temperature delta because breaking even a little can induce temperature shifts like that. A change to the system that notes if it is a uniform temperature across bearings would be a good idea.

@mikefochtman7164

Жыл бұрын

Well as others have pointed out, defect detectors don't 'share' information to allow trending of temperature readings. And certainly if some 400 readings for a 100 car train were sent to the engineer, he wouldn't be able to pick out a problem while operating the train. Some sort of on-board monitoring system might be advised, but that's a pretty expensive 'backfit' for every car in the US (or even just every hazmat car).

@petermgruhn

Жыл бұрын

Or maybe it was created and installed before yesterday and was the most praiseworthy cutting edge high tech solution at the time.

@trapfethen

Жыл бұрын

@@petermgruhn Which would be an example of "woefully inadequate" as pointed out. There was enough information to identify the issue far earlier and prevent the crash. The excuse "The tech is old" is not good enough.

Grady, thank you so much for explaining things in such a rational and scientific way, while still making it easy to understand. I am in no way an engineer or scientist myself but i have been following you for many years. The information you share are invaluable for all of us. I am glad there are people like you.

Great video as always! One criticism is you briefly mentioned the enormous political pressures these companies have at the end, but you did not elaborate. This derailment is a great example of how engineering takes a backseat to politics and public opinion instead of the facts. As a neighbor in camada across lake Erie, this story wasn't even reported until March a full month after the incident

@mattakins3557

Жыл бұрын

NPR was reporting on the derailment within the hour...

@callsignapollo_

Жыл бұрын

He also failed to mention how combative and weasley Shaw was during that Norfolk Southern hearing. They had to talk him into circles to get him to commit to anything besides saying "we'll do the right thing i promise" the last thing that he wanted was to commit to any changes that would affect the bottom line. Makes me heavily question anything NS said about the incident

A few notes, defect detectors predate the end of the caboose, and originally were manned because they also predate radio. In cases of a hot box (hot bearing), the detector would trigger an alarm for the signal operator who would drop the signals to red. Later, crew radio could be used for the caboose to signal the locomotive, then regional radio. Defect detectors are quite old, and the CSX one used in the example had a predecessor that existed in that spot from the point where the Seaboard installed radios. I have no notes on the engineering critiques. Of course, railways moving hazardous materials through cities shouldn't be a big surprise. The railroads' predecessor is generally why towns are there. It's an unfortunate fact of life in the US. It should be noted that hotboxes are not something better brakes can help with. Better detection protocol is the best way to resolve this, and the companies (Norfolk Southern and Union tank) are still at fault, for poor detection and poor car maintenance. Prevention, not mitigation, is always the way to make railroading safer. The FRA has taken actions in the category of the later rather than the former, or at least hinted at intention to do so. There are now 6 companies. KCS in the south southwest and Canadian Pacific in north have merged as of days ago. Incidentally, CPKC had a major accident a few days ago.

Thanks for doing this! I'd love to see more series done on transport infrastructure if you end up running out of other great ideas for the channel.

Grady, thank you so much for making videos like this. I know how much time and research must go into something like this, and only wish videos like this could be broadcast or shared on social media as far and fast as the initial outrage & conspiracy theories. Please keep doing what you do, it's very appreciated!

Thanks for a nice analysis of the event. It is always always good to get the whole story.

Grady, ever since this accident happened i was anticipating your video to come out on it. Well worth the two month wait. Thank you.

It's nice to hear a calm, rational and fair minded explanation of a serious incident (with serious consequences) with out the all the hysterics, political posturing and histrionics so prevalent on KZread

@armagetronfasttrack9808

Жыл бұрын

At the same time, this video (for understandable reasons) left out most of the discussion of why the incident happened in the first place: the lobbying/bribing by the rail industry (and others) of the government and the consequential lack of regulation which led to the multiple safety failures in the incident. The discussion of regulations in this video could lead you to believe that regulators simply need to "rethink" the current regulations as if the regulations seemed fine before this incident, when in reality some the current regulations (in many areas) are nearly or fully negligent. I understand that Grady wanted to minimize the focus on political discussion in order to focus on the actual engineering aspects of the incident. However, other videos talking about the politics, in particular the lobbying/bribing and deregulation that led to this, are equally if not more important than the plain engineering aspects since an average viewer, in principle, has more agency to change the government than to improve the engineering. Of course there are plenty of people who are dishonestly involved in the politics either for personal gain or getting attention, but they shouldn't detract from the people who are making strong/dramatic political points in an honest fashion.

I just discovered your channel and I’m loving it and have been binge watching many of your videos. Thank you for all this amazing content!

Your perspective is wonderfully refreshing - “I recognize our life depends on rail transport” and “rail is still the safest transport”. Such a mature and unbiased perspective. Keep up the great work!

Was waiting for this. Thanks for your hard work.

@niramalagiri794

Жыл бұрын

me too

@1asdfasdfasdf

Жыл бұрын

@@niramalagiri794 Me 3 😉

Thank you as always for being a great teacher

Seems the most comprehensive explanation I've seen so far. Thanks man!

I'd been waiting for a video on this. It had been hard to find out what actually happened in many of the other reports as they were mainly concerned with the hype surrounding the event. Great video.

As a repeat viewer, I greatly appreciate your time, knowledge and in depth information. Thanks. Shivering black bell thumbs up 😎.

I'm excited for this one a lot. I'm a rail engineer myself from the Czech republic in europe, so looking at the US with this channel is a treat.

I used to work on a railroad. One of the last things you want to hear is a defect detected. Because usually, it is at the opposite side of the train. Long walk there and back, plus a long delay before end of shift...

Love when you talk about real world, recent accidents. Really helps me understand them better on a technical level!

I live near a classification yard, a large one too. It’s locally known for one disaster, “the Roseville Explosion”. Several years before I was born a train load of bombs was sitting in the yard, destined for Concord, California. A fire from the tinder box got out of control and very quickly, 19 rail cars ceased to exist as the bombs started exploding. Some years after the incident and during my lifetime, the yard underwent an expansion project and whist clearing land for the expansion, several unexploded bombs from the initial incident were uncovered. The bombs were detonated on site. Not many US civilians get to say they experienced live ordinance. Everyday you can hear the horns blaring, occasionally you can hear the tell tale clang from cars being coupled, sometimes you can hear the *whoop* of the air compressors, and when the conditions are right you can hear the rumbling of trains moving into and through the yard. All of the sounds are easy to recognize and identify. But one day, not too long ago there was a very different sound that came from the yard. I heard the tell tale clang of cars coupling followed by a series of metallic booms and I felt the ground shake. “Ooh, I think a train just derailed,” I said to myself as I was preparing my lunch. I went and grabbed my phone and pulled up my radio scanner app and tuned it to the railroad dispatcher for my area and the chatter I heard over the radio confirmed it. Our rail yard is fully equipped and staff fully trained to deal with explosives and chemicals. It has a very loud “Emergency Warning System”. If something were to happen that would require the local area to be evacuated, the EWS would sound a loud siren and a very loud announcement would be made over the speakers. Thankfully, I’ve only ever heard the tests and never an actual emergency. While I can’t say the same for everywhere, I can say that for the lines under our local dispatcher that they are very secure. The dispatcher was quick to affirm the derailment, assess that the main line was blocked by it, had all trains on the line confirm their locations, ordered all non-priority trains into sidings, got crews to move trains and cars around in the yard to clear a path, then got crews dispatched on the high-rails and company trucks to go and double double check all of the signals were working correctly as the schedule had to be changed. It was impressive to listen to. Not only did the yard crews call in signals, but trains on the lines also called out the signals they saw and confirmed with dispatch that they were showing correctly. As for the cause of the derailment, apparently it was a coupling gone wrong and several cars got tipped off the rails. I’ve lived here for 35 years and have only ever heard of one other derailment happening at that yard and that was when I was extremely young. The staff at our yard takes their jobs very seriously and they are very efficient. I for one trust the railroad industry and the NTSB. It’s come a long way and safety has been greatly improved over the years and continues to make great strides in improving the safety.

@railfandepotproductions

10 ай бұрын

You mean that event on southern Pacific's Roseville yard

One thing I don't understand is why the defect detectors and tolerances weren't programmed and written to react on the rate of increase in temperature rather than a fixed value as that would most likely have allowed the train operators to act well in time to prevent the disaster?

@gordonrichardson2972

Жыл бұрын

The detectors are separate and do not communicate with each other. The system is archaic, and not designed to deal with this kind of escalating failure.

@VenerableBede2510

Жыл бұрын

Because the ignorant bureaucrats who write the laws about regulations aren’t engineers. They’re ignorant bureaucrats

@southernflatland

9 ай бұрын

@@gordonrichardson2972 Even a 16 bit CPU from 1985 can do basic differential calculations. That's not even an excuse.

Thank you for covering this incident in detail.

Thanks for the video, Brady.

The air brake system was a little simplfied. This would be a good topic alone for a Pratical Engineering episode. But yes they did apply, or as railroad people say "kick". Any drop of brake pipe pressure of more than 20psi a second will kick the brakes, assuming the car's reservoirs have some charge in them. Yes , DOT specs are nice, but does it really matter if you have thicker steel on the ends of a car if you have 10,000 tons of train being shoved into it. It was pure luck more cars were not breached. These long trains are insanity. There is no doubt that there would of been less damage if the derailment had 60 cars pushing behind it and not 110 cars. By the way the air brakes can only apply at the speed of sound. Sounds fast but make a sound in NY and Los Angles will hear it 3 hours later. A 147 car brakepipe with all its elbows and bends slowing things down could take 15 seconds to reach the last car on the train. (the DP locomotive my have assisted in the application). This 15 second delay could of sent 6 extra cars into the derailment pile.

Production levels are flying man, great mic placement, great lighting, looking clean 👌🏼 Also, awesome content!

Thanks Grady. Another very informative and interesting video. Really appreciate your work and hope you keep it up. Multiple thumbs up.

Outstanding and detailed explanation of the entire situation!

When you consider how many tons of freight gets moved over railroad, that fact that these accidents are so rare is still very impressive

@dozerboyd8784

Жыл бұрын

Still not as good as pipeline, but we can't have those. Those are "to dangerous"...

@CanadianWolverine

Жыл бұрын

Rare? There are about 3 derailments on average per day in the USA.

Thanks for providing a factual rundown without getting political. Well done.

living so close thanks for doing this

Excellent analysis and explanation. Thanks, Grady, I will surely be tuning in to Practical Engineering more often.

I think Precision Scheduled Railroading has a lot to do with the increase in freight derailments lately.

@petermgruhn

Жыл бұрын

Increase in total number? Number per car? Number per mile? Number per car per mile? Number getting attention?

@Ergzay

Жыл бұрын

Except there hasn't been an increase in freight derailments. The number of derailments is pretty fixed. In fact they're trending downward.

@P_litzer

Жыл бұрын

If you mean lately like in the past decade or two you would be right. But if you mean in the past year no. Recently in the past couple months the amount of derailments really haven’t changed. It’s because the media is reporting on it more due to the east Palestine derailment.

@americankid7782

Жыл бұрын

The only real reason there seems to be a massive uptick in recent train derailments is because everyone is looking for train derailments because of this incident. I have seen many people finding train derailments from the early 2000s and claiming them to be happening yesterday. Basically everyone is panicking and overreacting.

@msromike123

Жыл бұрын

Another talking point that has no basis in fact.

Railroads are vital to an economy that priorizes low cost. Sadly the lack of oversight and regulation of the industry means incidents like this are bound to happen, and will likely get worse as the railroads look to further reduce their costs per mile by making trains longer and longer. Road going semi trucks face significant regulations in their daily operations.

@fasddfadfgasdgs

Жыл бұрын

basically this. A lot of this could of prevented if they actually maintained and not rush to get shipments done asap to bring in more money. There is a price to pay to rush and that generally means more maintenance costs and more down time.

Many thanks for covering this. I work in a rail related industry, and want to see continued attention paid to this incident.

I really appreciate your perspective. I live in a neighborhood that's right near a rail line myself. My toddler loves it but I've also listened to the trains go by recently with some new anxiety that didn't exist before. I hope the railroads learn the right lesson.

Hi Grady, great video as always. Though I would have loved to hear a bit about some of the malfeasance on the part of NS in regards to skipping inspections (in particular for wheel bearings) for the sake of reducing the costs associated with both keeping the train still and repairing the damages, as well as warnings by NS employees that the trains were both much too long as well as severely understaffed. If they had not skipped the inspections associated with these bearings and replaced them when needed, this tragedy would have been avoided completely, so it's by no means just an "unfortunate accident", it was an inevitable result of cost cutting and lack of oversight. Again, keep up the great work. I can tell you wanted to remain as apolitical as you could (impossible imo), but the responsibility of NS really cant be overstated here.

Can you do a video on the Nuclear Plant in Monticello, MN? Apparently there is a water leak of radio active materials that affects the area and I would LOVE to know more about this issue. Love your content and thought it would be interesting to see the details of this event.

@mostlyvoid.partiallystars

Жыл бұрын

I would love a whole series on nuclear power - there’s so much he could cover.

@miles_thomas

Жыл бұрын

The failed rebuild of Crystal River, FL nuclear plant would also be of interest, to explain about wire tensioned concrete and the challenges you can have with making changes to an existing structure.

I was extremely excited to see that you had vids from another one of my favorite channels, Distant Signal

Excellent vid Grady - I’m appreciative of all the research you always put into these 🥰

Excellent video! I am more on the side that the controlled burn was not the correct response although I do understand the reasoning behind it. If you look at the verbiage of the DOT's Emergency Response Guidebook (used by all firefighting crews and emergency responders) 116P for vinyl chloride, looking at the "Fire Involving Tanks" section the guide says to "let fire burn" not "create a controlled burn" in the event of an uncontrolled fire. A controlled burn may be fine for methane at an oil refinery where you can assure there are no side products, but for vinyl chloride, the uncomplete combustion (clearly visibly by the thick black smoke) likely created dangerous side products such as phosgene that likely killed wildlife in the area. Fantastic explanation behind the DOT Tank Cars! One of the best explanations I have seen mentioning those. Sadly, there are even more hazardous materials transported by rail and vinyl chloride is not even considered top ten by far and there are higher rated tank cars that could have been used (although not specifically required). In my personal opinion, lack of maintenance in the train cars by Norfolk Southern clearly caused this accident but the response by the local emergency responders was not technically appropriate. There was a non-zero chance that the fire would burn down and the vinyl chloride would not explode, by creating a controlled burn, this removed that non-zero chance and made it absolute. To prevent accidents like this, perhaps the tank car ratings for hazardous materials should be revisited, the temperature of failed wheel bearings should be reduced, and infrastructure such as unmanned firefighting devices should be put in place. Excellent video and thanks for your input despite not being a rail engineer.

Great video as always, especially since it featured a short excerpt from a channel I watch all the time, Distant Signal hosted by Danny Harmon. If you like trains or are fascinated by them in general, his channel is a great place to sit back and binge his content. And while he's strictly a railfan and not a professional railroader, his information is spot on since he knows where to go for sources, often the professionals he's met over the last few decades. And he's been recording video of trains long before there was ever a KZread. Delivered with his folksy, yet professional baritone (yes, he's a professional voiceover guy in Florida), you'll wind up smiling after every video. And he can wring drama out of what would be pretty mundane video. And he's even mastered drone photography too. On one video, he had a laugh out loud moment when the engineer driving the train he was chasing while he was stopped at a crossing said hi to him over the radio...and he was still in his car! They all know him.

Thank you for covering this

Thanks for the amazing, well balanced report on the disaster in less than 18 minutes. Much better than any of the newspaper articles I have read, wasting much more time in the process. It seems to me that there were no shortcuts or mistakes made and that the response was very professional.

Thanks! Great to see coverage that goes beyond news headlines.

I have read that the decision to burn the Vinyl Chloride was made by NFS without any input from other agencies involved. They did the burn off because it was the QUICKEST way to get the rails operating again. They put almost no thought into what that would do to the community. This didn't have to go down like this. That is where the truly saddest part of this occurred.

@feryth

Жыл бұрын

What should have been done?

@ElliotPorterfield

Жыл бұрын

That doesn't mean it wasn't the correct thing to do for safety.

@scpatl4now

Жыл бұрын

@@feryth There is a very good summery in the Washington Post about it. It's titled "Officials burned off toxic chemicals from Ohio train. Was it the right move?" I would say read it and see what you think

@feryth

Жыл бұрын

@@scpatl4now I can't find a WaPo post titled exactly that. Edit: nevermind, the title shown in the Google search entries is different from the actual headline

@KainYusanagi

Жыл бұрын

@@scpatl4now "East Palestine Mayor Trent Conaway said there was little time to weigh alternatives to the controlled release as temperatures climbed rapidly inside one rail car. “We had 15 degrees to make a decision,” Conaway told The Post. “It definitely would have blown up.” He called any suggestion that it was to get rail traffic back operating “absolutely false.” " Sen. DeWine and the town's fire chief was of the same opinion. Seems pretty cut and dry that it was the temperature spiking, not NFS, that caused that choice to be made.

Fantastic job on explaining this issue!!!

I absolutely love your videos, I learn so much about how things work in such a short amount of time about things I see every day.

thanks Brady, your videos are always great and this is one of the best. I hope you are right that this will change things for the better. Efficient rail is a no brainer, and it seems like there is vast scope for improvement with technology and prudent regulations

@pete3897

Жыл бұрын

It's Grady, with a G :)

It's insane to me that the conclusion of this is "well, freight rail won't go away". That's entirely besides the point. You didn't mention how derailments are going up instead of down as they should at all. Also didn't question why the temperature set to alarm was high enough that it only alerted after it was too late.

Great work! Your engineering skills are top notch! I'm impressed by the level of detail and precision you put into this project. Bravo!

I definitely lost what was actually happening because of the media, I was waiting for a video from you, or one other to make sense of it. Thanks for the videos, cheers!