I found a written account recently of my ancestors from Switzerland. The husband resisted joining the church at first but his wife, kids, and her sister’s family joined and were all determined to move to Utah. So he acquiesced, but when they arrived in Utah “he unhitched his horses, sat on the wagon hitch, and sobbed. He had not realized he had left his beautiful home country forever to come to such a barren wasteland.” I read this right after going to Switzerland for the first time and my heart broke for him (and for me not living in Switzerland 😂). But seriously, how sad because they were probably told lies of what Utah would be like without any ways to fact check beforehand.

@nomadicam

11 ай бұрын

I read a similar story about two young women from Switzerland who hid behind a shed and cried their eyes out when they realized that Zion was a lawless outpost in the middle of the desert.

@darcey55

11 ай бұрын

@@nomadicam heartbreaking 💔

@joanofarcxxi

2 ай бұрын

Was he forced? Did he have to stay in Utah? Because there are as beautiful places in the USA away from Utah and certainly away from Mormons. Maybe he just changed his mind about coming to the USA. But even if you cry and you miss your home, snap out of it and make the best of the situation. If no one forced him, it was his choice so stop crying and carry on, you're a man. Get a handle on yourself and your family. I am not a Mormon and I am a woman of the real kind, and I am saying we are responsible for our lives.

@elkbowhntr

2 ай бұрын

Geez... can't someone have a few minutes to grieve? The story didn't say he sat on that bitch sobbing for the rest of his life. Come on now. Common sense.

@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Ай бұрын

​@@joanofarcxxi Here's what it was like for those immigrants (so you can better understand why they couldn't just leave): Once you arrived in Utah as members of the church (Which insists it is the ONE AND ONLY TRUTH) you were stuck. If didn't obey every order the male leaders gave immediately you automatically labeled "bad." Then you you tried to leave you were deemed an Apostate and deserving of death. Under the reign of Brigham Young you would be followed and once out of range of the hearing of others you would be murdered. This happened to the family of a friend of mine who tried to leave Utah and escape to California. They snuck out at night with a cart and a wagon and driving a few animals. The man who had been ordered to keep an eye on them followed them and when they were far enough out he came upon them and told them he'd been ordered to end their lives. He said he had to return with proof. That he didn't want to kill them, but if he didn't return with proof he'd be killed for disobeying. He told them he'd have to take the wagon back with him, and he unalived one of the goats to make a bloody mess of the wagon so he'd be believed if he said he'd done his duty to dispatch them. The family that was escaping had to cross that long desert with only a cart and barely enough water to get across. But they did make it to California. Back in those days it was very difficult to leave "God's Kingdom." Are you not familiar with Jim Jones and the Peoples' Temple? Brigham Young's control over those in Utah was the same, but worse because he was officially made Governor of Utah Territory. Mormonism is a very deep brainwashing. Your own spouse and children will side with the men who lead the church should you ever happen to have a different opinion. It was a totalitarian state much like North Korea

If there’s ever a drunk history episode about Brigham Young, Tanner needs to play Brigham Young.

Especially harrowing hearing this in comparison to the stories I was told growing up about the women in my ancestry coming to Utah from Sweden and Wales. Of course growing up, their stories were told from the perspective of how spiritually strong they were to leave everything behind for the church. My heart just breaks

@lalzgarra9493

Жыл бұрын

Misinformation, this channael feels like an antimormons which is good, the more people know the church, the faster the church grows, its funny

For anyone who ever utters the word “ It was so long ago. Just get over it.” When it is TRULY over it can begin to be gotten over. These harmful practices and beliefs are still among us and affecting many. I know it makes you uncomfortable but telling folks to shut up doesn’t make it go away. All of this information helps me navigate life as a black woman in the USA. I understand even more the sadistic stereotypes that plague my country and the lives of my children and grandchildren. I know what I’m working against.

@lordfreerealestate8302

Ай бұрын

Saying "it's in the past" to a trauma survivor, religious trauma or otherwise, doesn't solve anything. It doesn't bring back the family members who disowned you, the mental health issues that you developed, or the lost time.

@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Ай бұрын

well said. Thank you!

A form of trafficking is holding at risk persons economically hostage regarding housing or illegal training repayment systems. It works because of immigrant language barriers or lack of education or trust of authorities. Legal immigrants who don't speak Spanish are the easiest to target because of lack of community.

My Mum joined the church when she was 18, in 1949 in England. Her Mum made her wait to be baptized at 18, because she didn’t trust the American missionaries. There were rumors back then, that there was a tunnel from Liverpool to SLC where the Mormon missionaries took young girls. No doubt because of the sheer volume that emigrated with hopes of a better life, in the decades prior. Particularly up North. The tunnel part is laughable considering how long it took just to build the “Chunnel”, but the fear of families that their daughters would be spirited away by Mormonism was very real.

@vladtheimpalerofyourmom-ag5112

Жыл бұрын

The same tunnel rumour made it to Australia. There was rumoured that even a tunnel from Tasmania to salt lake existed. One hell of a tunnel network apparently. Do all these tunnel myths have a common source?

@debbieshrubb1222

Жыл бұрын

My grandmother talked about girls disappearing into a tunnel. I wonder if it was lines of people walking along the gangway into a ship?

@haroldwhite5761

Жыл бұрын

​@@vladtheimpalerofyourmom-ag5112 Lots of mysterious, actual tunnels underneath Salt Lake City but they don't stretch off-continent

@WatchingwaitingG2D

Жыл бұрын

Try telling the truth.

@michellecardenas6072

Жыл бұрын

The tunnels ARE REAL! BEEN THERE MYSELF

the woman you refrenced as the inventor of computer programming was Ada Lovelace, the only legitimate child of the infamous poet Lord Byron. her mother - out of fear that Ada would end up like her chad sperm donor - insisted that Ada not be educated (either extensively or at all) in literature and poetry, and instead pushed her HARD into mathematics. of which Ada legitimately had a knack for. let's not just reduce her to "some woman" here

Learning years ago about how many third great-grandmothers I have who were second wives "married" when they were 14 or 15 to men aged 30-50.... Truly heinous. Thanks for more of this great content, folks!! Commenting for the algorithm. Venmo super-thanks incoming

@herbofallon965

Жыл бұрын

The ignorance shown by some of the anti-LDS group is staggering. In the 1800s, there was a much larger percentage of NON-LDS who had more than one wife than the percentage of LDS who had more than one wife. There was NO LAW in the United States against polygamy in the United States. In the late 1800s, Congress made a law prohibiting it. By the way, who made these two shining stars putting this channel on authorities on the subject? Maybe they heard they could make some money by putting on some idiot video that will cause more ignorant racist attitudes against good LDS.

This is a well known story in northern England my own Granny, born 1901, despised Mormons as liars who conned women into forced plural marriages. Any poor missionaries who made it to her door got it with both barrels. Her parents certainly knew people who converted and emigrated in the 1850s - 1890s and they were well aware that some ended up in plural marriages.

@lalzgarra9493

Жыл бұрын

😅😅😅 and the bad thing is......

@herbofallon965

Жыл бұрын

It is nothing short of disgusting the sick lies told about the Church. Hopefully, enough people will make complaints to KZread/Google and crap like these anti-LDS Church, anti-Joseph Smith channels will be shut down.

@ashlynonline

Жыл бұрын

@@lalzgarra9493are forced marriages not an issue to you?

@WatchingwaitingG2D

Жыл бұрын

Liar.

@kirbysthiccthighs

Жыл бұрын

@@lalzgarra9493the bad thing is forced child marriages. pull your head out of your ass.

I once looked up the average marriage age of women in the time Joseph Smith was alive. The average marriage age for women was early twenties.

If we're talking about modern human trafficking, let's not forget the troubled teen industry, where minors are locked up against their will for profit. Huge industry in Utah/Mormonism. It's not the day-to-day workers I'm concerned with, so much as the people at the top raking in the money and duping parents into thinking they'll actually help their kids - when the data shows that most kids come out of the troubled teen industry with more problems and trauma than they had when they went in. Ask me how I know ;)

one side of my family is born of the women who ran from the husband in europe for mormonism, the other line of my family was born of a man close to joseph smith and had 12 wives 😭it’s crazy the generational trauma this has created it’s so obvious to me now

My ggma was sex trafficked from England. As an 18yo, she joined TSCC and came to the U.S. by herself to find that she was going to marry my 41yo ggpa as his second wife. She was never taught about polygamy and/or it was completely denied.

@AM-kr4pv

6 ай бұрын

Ironically I googled tscc because I didn't know what it stood for and it came up with "trauma symptom checklist for children". Then I added church and it told me lol.

Last year a co-worker told me that as part of their town's Pioneer Day celebration, they (STILL) do a reenactment of "Indians" burning down a nice (innocent) Mormon Settler family's cabin down. Nor only was I shocked at how offensive that is, I was more shocked about the positive spin she put on it

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Oh god 🤮

@rachelchandler1949

4 ай бұрын

Where was this?

@wlkrmomma

4 ай бұрын

@@rachelchandler1949 It's in Cache Valley, I think she lives in Hyrum

@wlkrmomma

4 ай бұрын

It is in Cache Valley, I think its Hyrum@@rachelchandler1949

@ZippyMcBeans

4 ай бұрын

​@@wlkrmommaof course its in cache valley 😭 idk about Hyrum but I know for sure that Wellsville (west Hyrum with a different name) does that

There has also been an alarming amount of Haitian and African children taken or adopted for many years.

@fayevice607

11 ай бұрын

Bush & Clinton were appointed to be over fundraising for Haiti when the big earthquake hit. These 2 were the world's worst pedophiles and they're the ones who stole lots of children for their Human Trafficking operation and prob Epstein's also.

@lordfreerealestate8302

Ай бұрын

Adoption is like a form of neo-colonialism under the guise of "rescuing".

Wow. I don’t understand how anyone stays Mormon after reading anything about the history of the Church. How can a person feel holy knowing the history? It’s so strange to me.

@smileysun9212

11 ай бұрын

I was 16 when I left the Church because one reason was its history. I felt the Church was keeping it from us & the missionaries don’t talk about it. If a lot of us new before hand we would never have joined. 20yrs later I had a trial & the Lord brought me back to the Church. I prayed about it & I have to focus on my own salvation. The Lord will deal with those accordingly & they were probably deceived by the adversary. The Lord may have told them to practice polygamy but perverted men abused it.

There was a PBS series on the Mormons years ago. It mentioned polygamy but really sanitized it IMO. I think it made the Mormons look like victims more than anything else.

@WatchingwaitingG2D

11 ай бұрын

And a fake Christian like yourself would know what?

@lordfreerealestate8302

Ай бұрын

I feel like a lot of institutions are hesitant to critique the LDS because they are so powerful. They'll get backlash or be accused of discrimination.

All Major Religions have a lot to answer for throughout history. Abuse of power, theft, murdering native people, genocide, these are atrocities that can’t be undone. The truth is often tainted with our own prejudice, perceptions, and judgements. That is why these discussions are so important.

The "good ol' days" were more disturbing than I'd realized.

Wow, I knew there were trafficking adjacent offenses in early Mormonism, but this was a whole new level. I had no idea the amount of legitimate trafficking took place, thank you very much for this informative video. I really liked the historical accounts being read, I love when history is brought to life. Tanner I’m sorry it’s been rough in your family with the Tim Ballard ordeal. I for one haven’t dared trying to address it with my family, knowing the resistance they have to anything I say that challenges their world view. I keep hearing them hype the movie and org. and spread the word about it, and I have such a pit in my stomach about it.

@lalzgarra9493

Жыл бұрын

Are tou serious?? Where is the evidenc? Lol

@WatchingwaitingG2D

11 ай бұрын

These people are lying. Do you like being made a fool of?

Human trafficking: "any movement of people for exploitation of human labor" (from Tanner in this video about 8:30) HOLY F THE WHOLE MISSIONARY PROGRAM IN THE MORMON CHURCH IS HUMAN TRAFFICKING!!!

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

YEP!

@marquitaarmstrong399

Жыл бұрын

Okay. Another pair of eyes opened

@WatchingwaitingG2D

Жыл бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf liars.

@bkk1996

11 ай бұрын

​@@WatchingwaitingG2DYou have 71 comments being hateful and derogatory on this channel. 71. Please sit with that.

@WatchingwaitingG2D

11 ай бұрын

@@bkk1996 compared to what you believe you shouldn't talk.

As you pointed out, the whole "they were a person of their time" argument would be far more effective if there weren't people who knew [insert heinous shit here] was Bad living at the same time. That argument should never be taken seriously ever.

I was over in nauvoo recently for a youth stake trip and one of the many tours we went through was the one out of the red brick house run by the church of Christ. The tour guide, unlike most nauvoo tour guides, was not a mormon missionary, and the tour was much more informative and much less “spiritual” because of this. The tour was specifically near JS’s house and the big hotel that he was building. According to the tour guide, the hotel was a high priority, and oftentimes people paying tithing in work would help build the hotel. The guide also spoke about there being lots of adopted orphans in their home.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

😬😬😬

@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Ай бұрын

On our family's visit to Nauvoo, the Red Brick Store being run by a non-Mormon group was the only tour we actually enjoyed. It's so sad now, that as of (what was it April or May) the Red Brick Store was bought by the Mormon Church. Now the Mormon Church has a total monopoly on the entire city.

@cindygreenwald1202

Ай бұрын

Same thing in Kirtland . Temple tour was fun and interesting when C of C ran it. The LDS buildings, not so much, to us Jewish gentiles. Creepy and weird. ​@@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Ай бұрын

​@@cindygreenwald1202 Thanks for pointing that out. And it's humorous that as Jewish people you understand the Mormons' viewpoint that they consider Jewish people to be "Gentiles." So silly. But I was raised in it and I had firmly believed that all of what they taught me was absolutely true. So, I do understand why they make the tours so heavy on efforts to convert people, but they don't understand how off-putting it is. I very much doubt that anyone has been converted to Mormonism based on visiting Nauvoo or Kirtland. So why don't they give it a rest and make the tours more true to actual HISTORY. It would be a dream come true if the Mormon Church actually had a majority of top leaders who realized there's no way all those claims of Joseph Smith could possibly be true. Especially since the evidence is extremely weighty against it being true. I'm really grateful that I had an epiphany and discovered the Mormon Church is completely fraudulent.

@cindygreenwald1202

Ай бұрын

@@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua C of C guy talked all about how JS stiffed the rabbi who did the Hebrew inscriptions, the bank scandal, and JS beating feet in the middle of the night.

I live in a very conservative community that has migrant workers and promotes "helping" immigrants "get on their feet". I well remember hearing a conversation between 2 church going women about the frustration they were having with one immigrant women that they hired to do sewing for them. She was a good seamstress but They were using her as a cheap way to get their sewing projects completed. The woman was expressing her need to be paid more. These woman literally believed that since immigrants are usually thankful for any work they can get a hold of, that they were being helpful even if they paid her peanuts.. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

@sewingintrifocals-alisonde7778

Жыл бұрын

Wow

@crotchy7667

11 ай бұрын

It's like mafia holding people's loyalty after doing a "favour" for someone in a desperate situation. Very manipulative.

@elkbowhntr

2 ай бұрын

More self serving rather than humanitarian. Sad

I do not understand why people were feeling threatened by this video. Calling out one group's horrific actions isn't invalidating other groups' experiences of discrimination. There isn't a monopoly on trauma. And you never implied that. This video was not presented as "all native Americans are perfect forever and all mormons are evil forever", like what?? Maybe I misunderstood some of those weird chat comments you got near the end? Idk, that was very strange to me. ABUSE IS ABUSE. You're calling a spade a spade. Doing so does not imply that there are no other spades, or that there aren't people among the spades who felt, believed, or acted differently than the rest. None of that is even really relevant to this.

@elijahhawaii

Жыл бұрын

I wish I had caught this live. I would have torn their asses up. My Native American friends would say this is not the oppression olympics. It is not a competition to see who suffered more. One instance of suffering does not detract from another. So their whataboutisms really are an attempt to do just that though. it is a way to be dismissive and say they DGAF without saying that. A couple of the comments also could be read as implicitly white supremacist. I could write pages as a clap back in reality.

I have some female ancestors that left Sweden who basically abandoned their families by running off with English husbands to America to become members of this cult back in the day. I am not sure if they were brought into polygamy though. Makes me want to do more research as to what that was actually about.

@WatchingwaitingG2D

Жыл бұрын

For someone who doesn't believe in God you are one huge liar.

@joanofarcxxi

2 ай бұрын

If you look at it in another way, sweds are quite promiscuous so polygamy would suit them.

I can't speak to mormonism but I do know quite a few evangelical communities who encourage their congregants to foster children. They basically get paid to prosthletize children. I've heard of kids feeling unloved and uncared for but being forced to adopt religious beliefs of the foster parents.

Just a note- American Democrats and Republicans basically swapped party values, so the Democrats of today are opposite to the Democrats of the mid 1800s and vice versa. Not that it's any less telling that Republicans of the time were against polygamy! Just might make a bit more sense in case anyone was wondering why those Republicans were also anti slavery. Thank you both for all the work you put into this and your other videos. I've learned so much about Mormonism from your channel and you're both amazing people! ❤

@michellecardenas6072

Жыл бұрын

Yes u r 💯 correct. These two need to relate that in their videos cuz it makes a huge difference when trying to understand the big picture and portray it in the correct manner.

@zanzer386

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Please address this/clarify…otherwise it becomes misleading for those without knowledge of political party history

@melindamercier6811

Жыл бұрын

Nope! That is a blatant lie. There is ZERO evidence of this mythical “party switch” and regurgitating this false information just keeps people ignorant. A lie goes around the world 7 times before the truth gets a chance to tie its shoes. Man, it’s amazing how many people say this nonsense and think it’s the truth.

@mardyross2838

Жыл бұрын

I'm so glad you made this comment. I don't know if Mark Grubert of America's Untold Stories on KZread would agree to guest, nor if your format includes video interview guests, but he has a fascinating political history and has 2x over their hundred+ shows talked about his realization of the parties changing, so he went right from left.

@emilydowell9783

11 ай бұрын

I just came to the comments to write this. You said it a lot more succinctly than I could have tho

I'm amused by the ad I got at the beginning of the video. It was saying that we have to fight the "wokeness" and was for Hillsdale College's citizenship course. The targeted ad was in fact a fail

@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Ай бұрын

I understand the courses are actually pretty good!

@cindygreenwald1202

Ай бұрын

Doubt it highly. -- Actual Hillsdale alum​@@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Fun fact: over behind The Green Pig, that alley way-ish area that connect back from 4th over to Main near The Pie Hole (I think all of these are still there… I left Salt Lake two years ago so my restaurant typography may be incorrect), there use to be a teeny tiny plaque that commemorated the location of Salt Lake’s first brothel. It got removed sometime between 1998 and 2007. However, for those of us who remember… We remember. Sidenote, love the reaction to Saturday’s Warrior. Another great film you guys could look at doing it is Plan 10 From Outer Space by Trent Harris. It’s his LDS spin on Plan 9 by Ed Wood, which infamously was Bela Lugosi‘s final film. It’s basically Salt Lake circa the 1990s meets Rocky horror picture show.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

omg i fucken LOVE Plan 10 From Outer Space! We’ve done big screenings of it Rocky Horror style! Glad to know somebody else out there knows it! -tanner

@nettejoost227

Жыл бұрын

Oh please do this

I refer anyone to a book by Fanny Stenhouse called Tell It All: A Woman’s Life in Polygamy. True stories of real misery. Sad and despicable that we were so lied to about our ancestors real stories of their desperate and heartbroken lives.

@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua

Ай бұрын

That was a really good book. Wife Number 19 was also very good.

Wow, I quit the cult at age 14 (I’m 49 and my parents are still in),, at 57:34 when you sang a mini bar of that song… we are all enlisted etc etc, wow, I knew the song and started singing along for a split second and then just tears! Holy shit!!

49:05 This is one of the best things about your channel, the demonstrative affection and admiration you have for each other. Beacon. Also, yeah, great point, Tanner. Now I imagine a Zelph skit of Ada Lovelace vs Brigham Young in a debate about what the 22nd century should look like.

mormonism has become one of my hyperfixations lately and i thank you for giving so much information for free

Britney of Spears: I'm not a girl, not yet a woman Joseph Smith: God said you should marry me. Oops, I did it again.

This topic needs a lot more exposure and white light. Sadly, it's just one of BY's gross moral shortcomings.

@WatchingwaitingG2D

11 ай бұрын

What would you know fake Christian?

@kentthalman4459

11 ай бұрын

@@WatchingwaitingG2D Gotta be a Christian to know what is moral?

@WatchingwaitingG2D

11 ай бұрын

@@kentthalman4459 Gotta be a true Christian to be moral.

@kentthalman4459

11 ай бұрын

@@WatchingwaitingG2D No true Christian has moral blind spots Scotsman fallacy.

@WatchingwaitingG2D

11 ай бұрын

@@kentthalman4459 speak for yourself, but leave out the true.

“God’s children are not for sale. * “ * Restrictions may apply.

Forcing European women into polygamy

When you describe the bishops choosing the young immigrant girls I can't help but visualizing Orrin Hatch pawing all over Hannah Montana. EEK!

@jackiekrieger4921

Жыл бұрын

Orrin Hatch grabbed my Mom's butt at a Republican fundraiser. She was so shocked, she went into the "Ladies Room" and told another woman what happened. She told me the woman said, "He did that to me too!"😳😠

@claudermiller

Жыл бұрын

@@jackiekrieger4921 ewwwww

Also Mormon missions today look human trafficking-ish and no one’s talking about it

@ChristianOne

Жыл бұрын

How so? The 18 year olds volunteer to go and pay for it mostly themselves, and report their experiences often to family. Genuinely curious what you mean.

Thank you. Watching from Alaska.

@shannsimms9072

10 ай бұрын

Oh hey I just got home from vacation in Alaska 2 days ago

This is fascinating episode. Thanks so much

The irony of epstein's best friend proposing the death penalty for the entire source of his sex life.

I was hanging out in Holladay, UT for the last week and didn't watch any youtube, so it's time to get caught back up!

Thanks for bringing this to people's attention. The new movie "sound of freedom' would be going after these early followers.

@ZelphOntheShelf

11 ай бұрын

I mean the guy who started that organization was Mormon so 🙈 we also did a deep dive into that movie/org that’s worth watching-lots of anti-trafficking experts have raised some really serious criticisms and Tim Ballard was fired from OUR and Glenn Beck’s org for sexual misconduct allegations, as far as we know.

@lukegraven7839

11 ай бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf …good point. I had written that but didn’t want to go into the child exploitation realm so I didn’t mention it. Moreover I believe he was busted with underage photos. The early LDS church was definitely child trafficking. Thank you again for bringing up this topic and devoting time and energy to it

What is astounding to me is that throughout history when people get more concentrated power than anyone should have over others this pattern is repeated over and over. As an ex-muslim the red flags are all the same!

I was really interested in this topic.

I like longer informative videos, but honestly, I sometimes hesitate when I think of how many times I'm going to have to hear the Temu and Amazon Go jingles. It almost makes me miss the Prager U adds.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Get KZread premium! It’s life changing! Haha, sorry about all the ads, we don’t control them

You're doing so well and I love you

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

💜💜💜💜💜

The LDS cake was made with snake eggs. These days I often feel that I have to use crypto-talk. Many blessings ya'll.

@marquitaarmstrong399

Жыл бұрын

Okay. Snake eggs? 2 funny

If they made polygamy legal again you can bet the mormon church, fundamentalist christian, and many other groups would jump on it. Bibilical gender roles has some interesting articles you may want to read. It is sick.

I follow Amanda Rae Grant- curious about your take on the Kingston Group

Keep it up team!

I already knew a lot of the shady things about Mormons, but I had no clue about this. But man, I really miss hearing conversations and dialogues like this, because I used to hear them on my university campus all the time. I'm in the Bible Belt (so was the school) and before that I was always the black sheep, so it felt especially refreshing hearing people's minds open and stretching their critical thinking muscles.

Another very informative episode! Quick note: The law at stake in the lawsuit by the Texas couple is the Indian Child Welfare Act (ICWA). While you guys are right that normally caseworkers are supposed to look at placement with a relative (kinship care) first anyway, there are a couple special considerations that come into play when a child is Native American. For adoptions, relatives are still looked at first, but if a relative cannot take the child, the next attempt is to try to place the child with another family that is still within their same tribe. If a family in the same tribe is not available, then the child may be placed with a Native American family from a different tribe. Only after all these options have been exhausted are adoptive families who are not Native American supposed to be utilized. The tribal government also gets to be involved in foster care placement decisions. I imagine it's a way to make up for the past forced assimilation through the boarding schools? So basically what I am hearing throughout the video is a lot of exploitation of people who were vulnerable because of language barriers, whether Native Americans or European immigrants. 😢

Overall good video guys, but i do have one suggestion. If youre trying to speak to conservative people, or the types who might believe in Tim Ballard's con, its just such a bad idea to go off about how prostitution is legitimate. A lot of people will turn off this video and never finish it as soon as they hear that. You may be right but its such a far-out and unpalatable opinion to conservatives, and its not necessary to the main point of the video.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Totally hear you but from our perspective, everything is interconnected and we can’t in good conscience perpetuate the demonization of sex work. It’s literally part of what gives human traffickers power.

Id love for Shelley to get more full sentences in:)

‘Fagged out’ means ‘worn out’.

Excellent video, and super important. It's crazy that this history isn't being referenced as context in today's media reports. Hah-REEM is the best pronunciation for the word harem, since it comes from Arabic, but I also hear HAIR-em from time to time, lol.

Thanks!

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!!!! 💜💜💜

Another thing: Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders had their children stolen too for pretty much the same stuff. We literally call them the "Stolen Generations"

Thank you for being brave enough to cover such a difficult topic; it's sad and interesting to see the history of our current situation which, sadly, hasn't changed much at all. If not for people like Sarah Unsicker running for Attorney General in Missouri (Major Corruption there now) and a coalition of people around here at the federal level going after human trafficking networks, esp those of children (and churches play a prominent role as perfect set ups with less regulations) I'd have no hope. Being the biggest military in the world, our enemies have thrown billions at bring us down from within and what better way than drugs and trafficking our children. It's a global effort with global banks involved and it all needs to be pulled up from its roots, esp those laid in religion.

Everyone please read "An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States" by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. Especially white US Americans.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Yes!!!!!

@kahlilbt

Жыл бұрын

Just acquired it!

You should research JusticeforLexi wherein a 7 yr old Native girl was taken from her foster family of 6 years, the only family shes ever known, because of this act. We should always be looking at each case and doing what is best for the emotional well being of the child. Just thought that should be mentioned.

I’ve never been Mormon but this is all super interesting to me

@fayevice607

11 ай бұрын

Me neither but knowing about this makes me so thankful and I cannot understand any person who has 2 brain cells to rub together why would they be a part of this?

Oh can y'all please post links to your sources? I'm not seeing them here and would like to read myself too

@randalljones3979

Жыл бұрын

Google "onset menses" for puberty

Why does he keep cutting her off and talking over her?

@mardyross2838

Жыл бұрын

This was new channel KZread offered in my feed, so I'd paused to read comments after several times occurring to see if comments reflected it. When she let him know his attention to her reading was requested was the point to pause and read comments for me.

Some of this sounds eerily like what happened to some of the arrivals at Nazi Concentration Camps, minus the crematoriums

Reminds me of "seven brides for seven brothers"

@pennamealias

Жыл бұрын

Like it's horrible, but we'll put some Bible verses and pretty songs and dances...so you'll fucking love it

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Except so so scary and less whimsical haha

@pennamealias

Жыл бұрын

ABSOLUTELY

@pennamealias

Жыл бұрын

It's truly heartbreaking and I wasn't trying to side step the atrocious nature of it

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

@@pennamealias no you’re right it’s problematic af

I’ve learned a great deal from watching your intelligent and well documented presentations. One thing you should know is that the modern day Republican Party is not to be confused with the liberal Republican Party of the 1800’s. The political parties have both reversed many of their policies and stances on women’s rights, human rights, and equality.

@ZelphOntheShelf

16 күн бұрын

Yep!

Who would have funded the transportation for these missionaries and the women/girls they brought back?

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

the converts themselves. many often sold all their possessions to make the trip

My mom’s family had an “indian sister” back in the early ‘60s. I remember her telling me all about her as a kid and I wondered where she was today. Were they still in touch? Will I meet her? My mom was in contact with her for awhile I know. They exchanged Christmas cards and things. But then she ended contact and my mom lost track of her and i think she was kind of hurt by it. I didn’t understand it at the time. I thought, wasn’t she so grateful to your family for basically adopting her? Now that I have learned more about what the program was actually about, I get it. I mean, my mom was just a kid herself so its not like she is to blame but knowing my mom’s naivety and brainwashed self, I don’t doubt that she may have said something like I thought as a kid to her and offended her as an adult and understanding what happened to herself even more. I don’t know. My mom might not have done anything. She may have just wanted to forget the period of time for her own reasons or who knows what. But it just made me look at the situation much different.

And just btw, I hear British people pronounce "harem" and "hah-REEM"

@haroldwhite5761

Жыл бұрын

Makes sense to me, that pronunciation is closer to how it's pronounced in middle east

I'm going to look back at the family history my Mormon cousins have compiled and pray for those women. IIRC, there are several women who came over from Wales during that time period.

I bet "eodfish" is probably codfish! Edit: lol someone beat me to it in the stream hahaha 😂

@randalljones3979

Жыл бұрын

It was "eodfish". They got it at Sam's Club. Humor

That court case about the white couple fighting the Navajo nation for two navajo children makes me feel sick. How arrogant do you have to be to think you are the better option as parents for a person from a culture you know nothing about?? I guess that happens when you think any culture but your own is worthless, which is even more arrogant.

Life is but a stream! Look at these 2 handsome (beautiful) hosts!

Sounds like early African slavery to me. Cruel practice

In 1840’s the Republican party was not the same party as today. They were calked Whigs and the Republicans were equal to todays Democratic party

2023 Female Puberty begins 9-13 yo 1840 Puberty15- 17

@caseyjude5472

Жыл бұрын

15, or a several months shy of 15?

@randalljones3979

Жыл бұрын

I started shaving a "few months shy" of 16. Seriously they were children. God help us all.

@erin_the_extra2329

Жыл бұрын

@@caseyjude5472oh shiiiiit

@toyranch

Жыл бұрын

Interesting... Is there evidence to support this? I haven't heard that puberty has affected women at different ages over the years but if there is data behind it, that would be extremely interesting and effect a lot of things.

@songs-of-seers5139

Жыл бұрын

​@@toyranch​ there is evidence, and it varies by genetics as well (including regional genetics, so not racial, but sometimes following along racial lines well enough to correlate). It's on the order of five to seven years reduction in western countries, with causes varying from environmental problems to increased available body fat (tends to speed both onset and progress of puberty, especially more female aligned puberty), and decreased malnutrition (though that's more complicated and seems less controlling than available body fat). I don't have the sources off hand, but a quick Google should pull some based on medical records. There's some concern on physical grounds, and plenty of concern for psychological effects, but it's not clear how much of a problem it is, or what all of the drivers are.

I have not met any open poly person who wasn't predatory in trying to get me to sleep with them. Even being polite about it was responded to with abusive language. In my view these people derive no honor from even the most minor sacrifice for others and are completely hedonistic and self serving. With the way men think about women and the rise of incel culture, legal prostitution will only further harm the family unit and will make men see us as further expendable. Men already usually don't want to be friends with women and frequently pretend to be just for the chance of sex. This has happened to me personally several times, whenever I try to be egalitarian in my friendship choices. I am now jaded because I was never safe from intended sexual manipulation and they were never my friends. But yes yes I'm sure the people you know are the exception . Edit: I am not, nor have I ever been religious. And I do not consider myself a conservative.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Yikes, sorry that’s been your experience with poly people. All the poly people we know are very consent-focused and hyperaware of doing anything to put pressure on anyone. We disagree with your characterization of all poly people as hedonistic-polyamory is not just about sex. But I can understand how you’ve arrived at that conclusion given your experiences! 😬💜

@EvaJT66430

Жыл бұрын

This has been my experience as well. Glad to know I'm not alone.

@kr3642

Жыл бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf That was a classy reply, thank you.

@Me-dj2sz

2 ай бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

while women without a doubt can command space...it is a beautiful thing for a Man...who has naturally been given the stage.....to offer the space.....it is something felt in the air when it is done and creates a beautiful balance....harmony

Anyone reading this who is interested in adoption in the US, I HIGHLY recommend listening to the podcast “This Land” from Crooked Media. It’s about the Native American adoption case they talked about in this episode but it also goes over the history and state of adoption.

Please list sources!

@codeman966

3 ай бұрын

They won't. It's all half truths or 2nd hand sources that are questionable

It strikes me that it was also a lot easier for people to criticize polygamy, which makes the comparisons to slavery a bit rich, as there was much less widespread white acceptance in power on the national stage of polygamy. Not to undermine the damage, or say it wasn't human trafficking : it was. Just bothers me given that the Republicans weren't actually as strong on slavery as the 1860s national position Tanner quoted.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

thank you for the additional context! that’s good to know!

@randalljones3979

Жыл бұрын

Social progress in America is always baby steps.

❤

Why do you both keep getting cuter with every video? Jeeze you guys

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Omg stop 🥰

Evil is Evil. Why on earth do you think some evil should be minimized for your Evil of the day. So your Evil can get more attention. I find that Bizarre and a evil of its own!!!

So hip and yet larp at the same time

I love both of you but I wish Tanner would let Sam talk

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

It’s usually me not letting him talk haha 🙈

They still are

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

yup

Get You a Young Virgin! is the mantra of D&C 132 - Job 1:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid? Job's Final Appeal 1“I have made a covenant with my eyes. How then could I gaze with desire at a virgin? 2For what is the allotment of God from above, or the heritage from the Almighty on high?…

I wish you wouldn't use the Third Reich as a comparison so often. The Holocaust is not a metaphor. There are hundreds of examples of dehumanizing the opposing side that don't compare people to mass murderers

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

The Nazis are a classic example of how powerful people are able to use false rhetoric to demonize groups of people and cause enormous suffering that regular people become complicit in-I don’t see what’s wrong with using it as a comparison given that it’s probably the most well known example?

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf your ignorance is pathetic making that comparison: and did you ever get baptized 4 Hitler like so many other Mormons have been ?

This is weird,but mormons always tend to be good looking? They selected the most pretty young girls for marriage so that's why? Tell me I'm wrong !

@larissabrglum3856

3 ай бұрын

It may also have something to do with not drinking or smoking

meow

People have a tendency to lean on one side or the other not realizing that the truth often resides somewhere in the middle sending you love and light ❤❤❤

@annwood6812

Жыл бұрын

This is true in so many cases, but if you've been trafficked through deception and then desperation, it's not an in between thing.

Have you watched his channel? My friend and I came so close to being traffickd. I thank God 🙇‍♀️🙇‍♂️

@ZelphOntheShelf

11 ай бұрын

Whoah what happened?? 💚💚

Can't watch live in England uk x jw

🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍

I find it interesting that you brought up trump and right wing this or that. One thing I've learned since questioning mormonism is that every side has their agenda and extreme people. From listening to you guys it doesn't seem like you see that yet. I follow both political sides and they are equally pushing their agendas and neither one is great.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

We absolutely see that and we don’t identify as republicans or democrats. But we are consequentialists and systems thinkers and will vote accordingly. There are far more than two ideas out there about everything and mainstream discourse is incredibly tribal and juvenile. Seeing through false dichotomies and seeking nuance and the holistic truth is a big theme of our channel.

@bobross8585

Жыл бұрын

What agenda is being pushed by thr Democrats?

@ohh771

11 ай бұрын

one side is saying slavery wasn't bad and has numerous representatives pushing for things like making interracial marriage illegal, and allowing sixteen year olds to marry.... I don't know that republicans and Democrats in the US are "equally bad". If you feel that way it is likely because you aren't personally effected by what's going on in the country. Taking away human rights is egregious behavior.