Burzum and Dissection were such huge influences on the whole genre, it's crazy to leave them out but include stuff that came after that, especially since we're talking early black metal.

@schninx

2 жыл бұрын

because of fuck PC durde.... like their fuckery with DsO is ok, but clandestine blaze isnt....

@bubbaharrod2530

2 жыл бұрын

But banger has to get all of their selections antifa approved

@raizarslaxterhaha

2 жыл бұрын

They have a problem separating the person with the music/artist, and that its stupid as fuck. Who cares what Varg is as a person? It doesnt affect nothing his contribution to music. Same with other artists, like, you have to judge his work, not the person itself.

@ignatiusjackson235

2 жыл бұрын

@@bubbaharrod2530 They added Burzom, you moron. 30:20

@bubbaharrod2530

2 жыл бұрын

@@ignatiusjackson235 well that's justice, usually guys like blayne will say if you are right of Stalin you are a Nazi and he will then leave you out

fenriz gives a better history of black metal

@sonnenrad8080

8 жыл бұрын

yeah, these guys don't know what they're fucking talking about.

@NunYaBiznesz

6 жыл бұрын

It's amazing how smart Fenriz is. I'd love to have a beer with him.

@drageben145

6 жыл бұрын

Vil Pfähler me too he actually is a dj at a bar in Oslo just figure out wich one and you can have a beer with him

@KateryReminiec9399

5 жыл бұрын

@Metal Enthusiast Accept is straight up metal.. Riot is power metal

@RenierRavelo

5 жыл бұрын

It’s because Fenriz was part of that history! Not a fucking nerd like this guy!

BATHORY always seems to be the least talked about (as a whole, not subgenre), which is sad considering how good Quorthon's music is

@blucu001

8 жыл бұрын

The problem is Bathroy stopped touring around '85 altogether, and Quorthon was pretty low key and didn't appear that much.

@AceLM92

8 жыл бұрын

+Parker Cestaric true, but that is partly what made Bathory great. and Quorthon clearly had a big influence on Norwegian Black Metal from how Fenriz made it sound

@blucu001

8 жыл бұрын

+HeadBangerAust very true, although I believe that kind of seclusion and near anonymity is partly what hurts Bathory, whereas all the other bands are somewhat more out in the open and more clearly active, but that's what I can determine.

@AceLM92

8 жыл бұрын

+Parker Cestaric in the plus side to that, he didn't over expose himself on the internet with promos and vlogs like some bands do today. but I wish he did continue to tour, let alone not die

@blucu001

8 жыл бұрын

+HeadBangerAust same here, it would've been cool to see where he would be gotten had he continued touring. I think him being so low key is what makes him so overlooked.

Thorns. Thorns needs to be on this list. Their demo tapes alone were a VERY heavy influence on Norwegian bands like Emperor, Mayhem, Satyricon.

@thomasruble3343

7 жыл бұрын

nailspine Yes!!!!!

@superiormusic

6 жыл бұрын

nailspine ^This

@padraig88

5 жыл бұрын

and Incarnator!

@dickwhiskey8041

3 жыл бұрын

I posted about Thorns before reading your post.

@grungil7570

3 жыл бұрын

Thorns was influential on a underground level before 1993. You can clearly see they were on another level in terms of demos quality, but unfortunately they didnt caugh the 1994-95 train to success. Their debut album was released only in 2000 and no one noticed it.

BATHORY is the SOUND of Black Metal. VENOM is the creator. Both are awesome.

@BangerTV

7 жыл бұрын

Nicely put!

@xXGoreXKillerXx

5 жыл бұрын

Just THANKS YOU!!!!

@thegrimmtruth4185

5 жыл бұрын

Venom shoved thier cock down bathorys throat and he took it all .... venom rules pussy...

@PRHILL9696

5 жыл бұрын

bathory is soft

@allstopblue5717

4 жыл бұрын

This is exactly how I feel. The sound was started by Bathory. Aesthetics, lyrical content, was there for Venom, but the music is flat out nothing to do with what we now call black metal. Bathory the music absolutely sounds black metal. The return, and under the sign of the black Mark is straight up black metal SOUND. In 1985 and 1987. Music/sound is more important in my opinion.

If Venom is "proto-Black Metal", than Slayer should be considered "proto-Black Metal" too. Not only were Slayer's first two albums influential in the Norwegian Black Metal scene, but they wore a kind of corpse paint, sang about Satan, and they were much more abrasive and dark sounding than Anthrax or Metallica.

@mitchfindergeneral

7 жыл бұрын

As much as I agree that Slayer had black metal elements, I think it was to a far lesser degree than Venom. Mercyful Fate, on the other hand, I never fully understood it being considered first wave.

@mitchfindergeneral

7 жыл бұрын

Bathory was inspired by Venom and all the black metal bands wanted to be Bathory.

@mitchfindergeneral

7 жыл бұрын

CARLO I don't think Bathory wanted to be Slayer, they wanted to be something inspired by Slayer, Venom, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer. I do agree that Slayer was an inspiration to black metal, but so was Motorhead and Teutonic thrash. Where do we draw the line? Perhaps there shouldn't even be a first wave of black metal, or it should be more restrictive. I'd cut out Mercyful Fate pretty damn quick despite them being my favorite band.

@amixofeverything

7 жыл бұрын

CARLO Did he? I mean...he certainly didn't sing like Tom. And his third album was straight up second wave Black Metal. I don't even know to what extent Quorthon was influenced by Slayer. He seems to have been more influenced by Hellhammer and Venom. Just my opinion.

@amixofeverything

7 жыл бұрын

CARLO That I'll agree with. Although I think Celtic Frost and Sodom were around, Slayer were the heaviest. I don't think the blast beat had been developed yet. I've always hated that early Slayer were classified as thrash, if only because they were far more Satanic than Anthrax and Metallica.

no dissection but they have cradle of filth?

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

Stay tuned.... Dissection was not forgotten :-)

@ryanstucke7811

8 жыл бұрын

+/mu/ck right! they are more symphonic goth

@kjetilhansen5363

4 жыл бұрын

@@ChrisJohnson1988 So people are elitist because they don't agree with your definition of the genre? Why is the Black Metal label so important to you? People are allowed to voice opinions you don't like.

@kjetilhansen5363

4 жыл бұрын

@@deadliestassassin3092 And being extremely childish while doing so. There's a difference between saying a band sucks and stooping to personal insults while implying the desire to silence everyone who dislikes your favourite band. I don't even dislike Cradle, but hardly consider them black metal. That's a silly thing to feel personally insulted by.

@kjetilhansen5363

4 жыл бұрын

@@deadliestassassin3092 Do I care? To a certain extent. A hell of a lot less than you seem to think, though. I'm not exactly losing any sleep over something so trivial. Anyway, I could just throw the ball back in your court. Why do you care so much what I think?

An element missing between the "proto" (first wave) and the "Black Metal" (second wave) is Death Metal. Many of the prominent second wave bands started as Death Metal bands: Thou Shalt Suffer (Emperor) Old Funeral & Ambutation (Burzum,Immortal) First demos/singles/albums of Absu and Darkthrone were Death Metal. In mid 80's some great albums were released ,which inlfuenced both Death & Black metal bands later on; Possessed's magnificent "Seven Churches" is worth a mention,along with Sepultura's "Bestial Devastation" and "Morbid Visions". In my opinion,Possessed,early Sepultura and early Slayer should be amongst the "proto" bands here. Bathory /Qourton is the father of scandinavian Black Metal,from the very start,period. "...The Return" -85 is still the darkest album out there.

@ignatiusjackson235

2 жыл бұрын

That's an outrageously insightful comment.

@DavidVega-wi5pr

11 ай бұрын

Yup you're absolutely right

Sodom should be noted as proto black metal, too. In the Sign of evil was super important for the norwegian black metal musicians.

@michaelhz37

6 жыл бұрын

Benjamin Decker the first 3 records

@pietrayday9915

6 жыл бұрын

Agreed - there was a handful of German bands that pushed thrash over the border into early black metal in the same way that there were little scenes in places like Brazil and Chile that were pushing their own versions of thrash into early black metal.

@chrismkimmel1

5 жыл бұрын

But if Sodom is Proto black metal when that means Slayer is Porto back metal?

@JanderVK

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, they kinda underplayed the importance of the early albums of the Tuetonic bands.

@natelandherr5202

5 жыл бұрын

Pleasure to Kill

Mantas is correct, the subgenrefication of heavy metal has become absolutely ridiculous.

this list is incomplete without Burzum(should be right beside Darkthrone)

@LarsAgerbk

8 жыл бұрын

I can't believe there's not more people asking for this

@DEATHPHOMET

8 жыл бұрын

I too concur, it's ridiculous that Burzum isn't up there

@LarsAgerbk

8 жыл бұрын

the question is whether you can call Burzum political. It certaintly doesn't fit in the current political scene.

@Sirtalksalot92

8 жыл бұрын

+H agreed

@joddeurter2448

8 жыл бұрын

Transilvanian Hunger

Anyone else notice the Marduk logo was upside down at the beginning?

@BangerTV

8 жыл бұрын

+MJS2001 Shhhhhh. (Lol)

@jesse_cole

8 жыл бұрын

+MJS2001 lol which one is the Marduk logo?

@pierredessein5568

8 жыл бұрын

+Jesse Cole The one to the left of Dimmu Borgir.

@jesse_cole

8 жыл бұрын

MJS2001 Ohhhh, got it. Wait, which one is Dimmu Borgir?

@pierredessein5568

8 жыл бұрын

+Jesse Cole Next to the guy on the right, it is easy to read.

black metal just gives the feeling of frozen forests and foggy mountains.

Where's DISSECTION?? They brought a new vision of technicality and brought in more classic Heavy Metal riffing and guitar solos and also reached that good production without loosing the feel of BM and actually enhancing it! They had a specific sickness to their atmosphere that was unmatched.

@jannekevanstralen3720

2 жыл бұрын

Was just thinking this they would definitely be on there

Venom started it, Bathory refined it. I hear a lot of people say Venom weren’t atmospheric or it was just thrash metal. Yet they had songs like Witching Hour, Buried Alive, In League With Satan, In Nomine Satanas, Don’t Burn the Witch, Cry Wolf, and 7 Gates of Hell definitely had atmosphere. Bathory’s first album sounds damn near like a Venom album (besides the vocals of course). Hell, even Bathory’s “Born for Burning” has the exact same riff as Venom’s “Don’t Burn the Witch”. Both equally important bands in regards to the creation of Black Metal.

Why did nobody mention Windir? Such an underrated band.

@Nightbreed82

8 жыл бұрын

+Badatstuff I think they were added to the "Folk Metal" chart in an earlier Lock Horns episode.

@cobijing

2 жыл бұрын

also parabellum (col) and blasfemia.

Dissection are missing! Who could miss them out!

@-gnicE-

8 жыл бұрын

Dissection is considered blackened death metal. Much like soulside journey from Darkthrone.

@Bigotdweller

7 жыл бұрын

just satanic death metal, at least thats what Jon said, and ofc their own definition "Anti cosmic metal of death", dissection doesnt sound like any other band at all, they were their own

@Journeyman107

7 жыл бұрын

They're blackened death as in they were essential to the formation of that genre, but their first two albums were definitely black metal- just with a more melodic twist

@Bhazalt

5 жыл бұрын

Dissection is too unique for this video.

@PRHILL9696

5 жыл бұрын

they are dead

Celtic Frost definitely has roots to symphonic black metal; as early as '85 they were incorporating orchestral elements into their music.

@addisonlewis723

8 жыл бұрын

Very true!

@pietrayday9915

6 жыл бұрын

Celtic Frost were right there, blazing the trails for so many extreme metal movements - black, death, doom, goth, symphonic... I've even heard some good arguments for Celtic Frost being one of the earlier groove/nu metal and industrial metal pioneers! They're still criminally unfamiliar to metal fans in general. Certainly, it's hard not to hear Celtic Frost's influence in bands like Emperor, Dimmu Borgir, Arcturus, etc....

@JanderVK

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, Celtic on their third album alone brought in elements of Doom/Symphonic-Neoclassical/Gothic Rock/Industrial in to their music.

Living Colour are my fav black metal band...

@ShiningTrapezoid

8 жыл бұрын

so original

@jaimeres

6 жыл бұрын

I laughed my ass off when I read this. 🤘🏿

@lucasstruna3962

5 жыл бұрын

Black Death is my favorite

@TJV83

5 жыл бұрын

Durrrr hurrrr I see what you did there durrrrrr hurrrrrrr

@joker71172

4 жыл бұрын

Lol.....fucking awesome guitarist tho!

Samael and Greek black metal in general is missing. Dissection, Sacramentum, Hades (who you interviewed), Ved Buens Ende, Ildjarn, Strid, Thorns and Ulver for the early second wave stuff is way more essential and should be there instead of Dimmu and CoF.

A "war metal" episode would be very interesting

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

I agree... a bunch of Canadian bands would definitely need to be represented on this one. Who would sit at the top? My vote is for Blasphemy.

@FromHellDesigns

8 жыл бұрын

+Jason D no doubt

@russell2890

8 жыл бұрын

what's war metal?

@FromHellDesigns

8 жыл бұрын

+Russel Keith it's like a weird mixture of black metal, death metal, and grindcore. Bands like Conqueror, Revenge, Blasphemy, Proclamation, and Black Witchery are consider War Metal.

@Vanthyrn

8 жыл бұрын

+J.I. Vargas Don't forget Archgoat and Morbosidad

I definitely think Immortal should be on this chart. That said, they used to refer to themselves as "Holocaust Metal". Apparently they prefer that term over "Black Metal" to classify the band. Kolgrim invented the term "holocaust metal" in a 1992 interview promoting the video for The Call of the Wintermoon. Since they were labeled as "Satanic" by the media following the video, they wanted a classification that fit better, because, apparently they aren't Satanic.

Most of those bands on the left are proto black metal, but Bathory are the bridge. They are definitively Black Metal, just doing it earlier than everyone else. In particular, The Return and Under the Sign in '85 and '87 are absolutely black metal and some of the best ever. Those albums still stand up today as just as heavy, cold, evil, and gloriously badly recorded as the 90s Norwegian bands.

If you google Burzum, it shows up as a "musical group". I found that funny.

@MeetTheSLAYER

4 жыл бұрын

@Sam Bowling Alley lol

I'm always amazed how many people start flapping their heads away in the comments before actually WATCHING the episode

No Burzum, no Black Metal.

@johnmclellan2257

7 жыл бұрын

Will Vaughn 6.3 the fact that they even had to write it in later is fucking astounding. Burzum's first 4 albums are quintessential black metal, and he influenced pretty much everyone who came after. I get that a lot of people don't like Varg as a person or agree with his political views, but his influence on the genre as a whole is enormous and undeniable.

@drageben145

6 жыл бұрын

John McLellan Yeah, but not it's reputation in norway

@sanatsrivastava2814

5 жыл бұрын

I think the reason why Burzum wasn't put on the board was due to his racist affiliations. I think Burzum's first 4 albums are perfection of Black Metal but yeah.

@metalhammer3432

5 жыл бұрын

Don't know why his beliefs play any part in his role in this, who cares he still did what he did.

@hmpz36911

5 жыл бұрын

That's like saying "No Behemoth, no heavy metal"

WHERE THE FUCK IS BURZUM?????????????????????

@-gnicE-

8 жыл бұрын

Taboo i guess.... Det Som Engang Var is still my favorite Norwegian black metal album. Riffs are killer cold in it. Also love how the art work has his self titled original cover worked into the bottom lol.

@Turzath

7 жыл бұрын

let me blow your mind lavonardo.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/toee-cover.jpg

@malteadotas4

7 жыл бұрын

no Burzum. Laughable. This debate lost all its credibility

@charlesissleepy

7 жыл бұрын

right? varg and fenriz are probably black metal's best theorists, in my opinion, they just seem to get it better. pretty new to black metal, so big fat grain of salt with that

@St3C0n

7 жыл бұрын

Burzum ARE THERE folks. Watch the damn video!

Absolutely Master's Hammer. Abbath and Nergal on their recent metal talks podcast on Spotify splurged about how influential their music was, even going so far as to say that some other black metal bands took their ideas and fused them into their own stuff.

Burzum and Windir are two of the top five most influential bands in the Genre, especially after the term Black Metal was spawned.

@buwerhassan

6 жыл бұрын

mountedpatrolman Windir = Love

@PRHILL9696

5 жыл бұрын

nope

Not sure why Burzum was initially left off the list, Varg is a dick but the music has influenced countless black metal bands. Cradle should be included in the black metal list and not taken off IMO. They've gone off on a gothic black metal tangent as of late but their roots are in black metal and they were also hugely influential. I would also like to see Profanatica on the list as well. Not well known but they began playing and recording evil satanic black metal in 1990! They've made a comeback as of late but their early 90's stuff is troo kvlt!!!

@current81

8 жыл бұрын

Apart from disagreeing with you that Varg is a dick, you are right. Burzum is a lot more influential than most of the bands on that list (the one to the right). Only Mayhem, Darkthrone and Emperor are on the same level. Not having one of the most important black metal projects ever included is a joke.

@jordanholland73

8 жыл бұрын

+current81 he killed a man and burned m a church along with being involved with plans to do more. not to mention he's one of the most pretentious people ever to live. I like Burzum and I think Varg has some good but you can't say the dude isn't a dick

@current81

8 жыл бұрын

jordanholland73 Varg is more honest, intelligent and independent than 99% of the politically correct, shallow, sensationalist morons who condemn him. People like him will always be a breath of fresh air in our modern, ugly societies where most people conform to the system and just follow the rules of the elite like mindless drones. To mention the Øystein killing and the church burnings from the 90's is old and redundant. It happened more than 20 years ago under circumstances that neither of us can relate to or ever are going to know all the details about, so I see no need to moralize. Past is past. I think we can at least agree that Burzum is highly influential.

@jordanholland73

8 жыл бұрын

+current81 I never said he wasn't honest and intelligent and even disregarding Euronymous and the church burnings he's just a pretentious dick. maybe he's a nice person and I greatly respect his music taste. I don't "hate him because I'm a politically correct streamlined modern metalhead", I'm just saying he's a dick. Doesn't mean I hate him or Burzum because Burzum made some of the best black metal of the 90s, maybe of all tome.

@jordanholland73

8 жыл бұрын

+current81 *music, not music taste. my bad

Cradle of filth was definitely part of that second wave, toured with emperor and were in correspondence with euroynomous. Their 90s discography is definitely black metal and dusk and her embrace is a masterpiece

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

+Josh Cotton I couldn't agree more. I think the argument from viewers was one that questioned where they stand now. But, that is a moot point - as this episode explored the early roots, and, as you mentioned, COF were part of that. There is no argument.

@wenndingofoster5680

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheGrav666 early cradle of Filth was heavier than many of the bands. Everyone dismisses a band if they make a living from their music.

@313bootboy6

2 жыл бұрын

Euronymous liked them and Faust admitted his murder to Dani. Nuff said haha

@phoenixzappa7366

2 жыл бұрын

Cradle of Filth is defined as shit metal

At The Heart Of Winter is one of the best BM albums ever,imo.

Regardless of politics, Burzum is at the top, they are the quintessential 90's black metal band. Bathory's The Return album imo is the first formal ( albeit 80s) bm album.

The band that has a demo called Black Metal Masters is the band : Holy Moses (October 1980)

What about a late 60's/early 70's debate? (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Iron Butterfly, Judas Priest, Cream, Blue Cheer, Jimi Hendrix, Budgie, Alice Cooper, Led Zeppelin, Kiss, Blue Öyster Cult, Steppenwolf, etc)

Don't forget Mayhem was highly influenced by Colombian extreme metal acts like Parabellum or Reencarnación... Other bands that can be labeled as early black metal are: Mystifier, Dorsal Atlantica, Necrodeath, Mortuary Drape, Blasphemy, Von, Tormentor, Master's Hammer, Sarcófago, Early Sodom, Early Sepultura, just to mention a few.

no BURZUM or IMMORTAL... wtf

@obscurecult

8 жыл бұрын

+NORTHERN MUSICIAN noticed it. It seems lots of people in Black Metal world like to pretend Varg didn't influence the genre a LOT. They don't like Varg.

@deathmattkiller

8 жыл бұрын

+Ricardo Rosa I mean can you really blame them now

@obscurecult

8 жыл бұрын

+deathmattkiller yes

@current81

8 жыл бұрын

+deathmattkiller To hate on Varg is a common thing among the politically correct, corporate, streamlined "metalheads" of today. Varg is a more intelligent and honest human being than 99% of the metal community, but anyone who goes against society and dares to criticize the foundations of the modern western world and all the hypocrisy, bullshit and lies will be ridiculed by the mindless, brainwashed masses. Burzum is one of the most influential BM projects ever and should of course be included on any serious list or discussion of this kind.

@glenmorethegamer7038

8 жыл бұрын

yeah i noticed! how come??? those are my fave B.M ever Burzum & Immortal!!

Mayhem is the quintessential black metal band. The Euronymus style riffing is what makes black metal live .

How'bout Immortal, Taake, even Burzum.

@Ricardo-gn2bp

8 жыл бұрын

He added Immortal later to the list.

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

+Dave Chernobog Taake deserve credit, but I think they fall just outside the timeline to be categorized with the bands in this episode. Taake was a demo band from '93 to '99 when they released their first studio effort, Nattestid Ser Porten Vid. Fucking awesome band though!

@EvaAliceD

6 жыл бұрын

Yes Taake so brilliant but seldom mentioned! Nordbundet times now with winter again🤘🖤🖤🖤

@wenndingofoster5680

4 жыл бұрын

How about some BEHERIT

@gehennagehenna1373

4 жыл бұрын

Fuck you mean "even" Burzum?! On any Black Metal chart, it's place is right up there with Darkthrone and Mayhem.

Personally, I'd love to see you guys dig into atmospheric, blackgaze and American black metal

@BangerTV

8 жыл бұрын

It's coming!

@DM-Damian

8 жыл бұрын

Awesome!

@LloydSevigny

8 жыл бұрын

Thorns is another top pic for those purists...the self titled 2001 is amazing !

@brandontadday6288

8 жыл бұрын

Banger TV should make an episode for modern BM in which they can include Atmospheric BM, Blackgaze, Progressive Black Metal and DSBM.

@carpshaw

7 жыл бұрын

Obviously Deafheaven and Ghost Bath would be on the black gaze list, but so should Violet Cold Cold and Perennial Isolation. I don't give two shits about it not being "true" black metal. I listen to this stuff alongside Gorgoroth and Leviathan and it doesn't bother me one bit

they should save 2 minutes at the end of each episode to identify current best examples of the genre. with live feed input of course

@BangerTV

8 жыл бұрын

Good idea!

@slamdeathmetal1

8 жыл бұрын

brother sam you forgot dissection melodic black n death metal

@randomacount1222345

8 жыл бұрын

very good idea! should also add some audio examples show us some of the bands best work ( for origonal shit not new) interviews are good too. keep up the good shit \M/

What about Spotify? Banger should be the metal curators on Spotify as well!

@MrMetalCreature

8 жыл бұрын

Apparently Spotify are removing metal

@MrMetalCreature

8 жыл бұрын

***** associatedmediacoverage.com/spotify-and-pandora-announce-plans-to-remove-heavy-metal-music/

@MrMetalCreature

8 жыл бұрын

***** yeah i saw that too

Celtic Frost DID refer to themselves as a black metal band. The term was out there before the second wave. It just wasn't used a lot.

Before Burzum the music was still theater. After 1991-92 black metal became something radical and dangerous because of the influence Varg Vikernes held and a point is Mayhem before (Deathcrush a poor album) Vikernes and after (De Mysteriis..the best!) The drama of the murder put to the side, Vikernes brought this eerie new sound that was like no other band at that time and the scene was threatening. If you were around the underground in the early 90's you know what I am saying. Burzum came on like a storm..so many great albums in a very short time. It is hilarious to me, even today Burzum is still so dangerous and real, folks still hesitate.

I would also like to see a melodic black metal (or scandinavian black metal) subgenre to include highly influential bands such as Dawn, Dissection, Sacramentum, etc.

This channel is so good, I'm so anxious for the next video.

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

+Marc Geller Thx for tuning in! Stay tuned for more =)

Darkthrone.Period.Why?Because they're bloody geniuses and down to earth(in their own way),and i've been under the spell since "under a funeral moon" when i was a kid.And i also enjoy walking alone in the woods;)

All Hail the Mighty BEHERIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drawing down the Moon. Greatest band of all time BEHERIT RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!. How about a documentary on BEHERIT

@benjaminneaves3195

3 жыл бұрын

Finally someone who knows their music! I agree with you on Beherit all the way!

The fact that Dark Funeral is on this list really makes me question the judgement here. Ulver, Dissection, Rotting Christ, Beherit, Thorns and certainly Tormentor *needs* to be there.

@addisonlewis723

8 жыл бұрын

Cradle of filth shouldn't be on this list.

@TheRealLucifer_Morningstar

4 жыл бұрын

DF formed in 1993, the same as Ulver. Dissection DEFINITELY needs on this list.

@telleroflies4373

2 жыл бұрын

The fact that Sarcofago isn't on this list proves these guys are a joke and don't know anything. That band was a major factor in what these losers call "proto black metal ".

Cradle of Filth will always be a gateway band for young people who are treading the extreme metal waters. That said, I've been a COF fan for twelve years. They were my gateway band.

@noname-ng6sj

Жыл бұрын

I don't think you understand how to contstruct a sentence. After "that said", you'd say you're NOT a fan or something. Saying a statement, then going "that said", confirming it 100% showing that you have no understanding about anything outside of your own statement is braindead as fuck.

Nice to see other people using "proto" to describe things. I would also add that there seems to be a band which is a "harbinger". For extreme metal, as a whole, it was Venom. For death metal specifically, it was Possessed. For 2nd wave black metal, it was Bathory.

One very important band that was forgotten in the Black Metal bracket was Thorns. Snorre Ruch was instrumental in bringing about the black metal sound to the music. His use of dissonant chords and drone string technique are imitated by pretty much every band in that bracket.

@Wagoo

7 жыл бұрын

they were mentioned

SARCÓFAGO?

@PRHILL9696

5 жыл бұрын

who

@omerusmortem8714

4 жыл бұрын

@@PRHILL9696 you must live under a rock.

@PRHILL9696

4 жыл бұрын

@@omerusmortem8714 sure what ever

@heavymetal1330

3 жыл бұрын

PRHILL9696 who? You should study more about black metal... real black metal...

@fabioduarte872

3 жыл бұрын

@@PRHILL9696 poser...hahahaha

33:50 Jason explains everything about Cradle of Filth with his gesture.

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

Haha... it was that obvious, eh? At that point Sam and I had already seen the chat filling w Cradle comments =P

@gmod8033

8 жыл бұрын

+Jason D yes haha very obvious sir and with good reason

@mistet7938

6 жыл бұрын

Lol

@PRHILL9696

5 жыл бұрын

COF most successful black metal band ever

@MindGamingMantis

2 жыл бұрын

Haters gon' hate. Find me a black metal song that goes harder than Queen of Winter Throned or The Rape & Ruin of Angels

Poison deserves to be on the list of proto black metal! For some who don’t know who Poison are, they were an extreme metal band from Ulm, Germany. Yah, when it comes to German hardcore metal you got Sodom, Kreator, Destruction, Violent Force, Assassin, Necronomicon etc. but Poison was a band that brought a sound of extremity to the table that was unlike anything that the other German bands created in the 80s. Listen to the debut demo Sons of Evil (1984), Virgin Slaughter’s vocals introduced a technique of raw, aggressive and violent screams and roars that were unlike any vocals back in ‘84, and were also an answer to Tom G. Warrior of Hellhammer at the time, even though Armin Weber said he was mainly inspired by Lemmy and Cronos. Angel of Death’s guitar sound brought a tone of raw low quality sound while the solos bring in that screeching and tinny tone, which almost sounds similar to what you’d expect from the South American metal bands in the 80s, while WitchHammer’s drumming brought elements which could actually be the first discovery of blast beats by today’s standards. They brought doom and classic metal elements of Black Sabbath and Mercyful Fate while trying to be more extreme than Motörhead and Venom as well blending in blast beats and tremolo quality guitar playing. Their sound has an inspiration of elements to what black metal and death metal and grindcore and other extreme forms of metal have to this day in age.

Oh, I hope you do much more material on BM. The Norwegian scene brought us up so destinctve and uniqe sound in which, like you guys said, it is all about emotions. Thanks for all your good work, Sam!

Burzum needs to be on the list...!!!!! Varg is the essence of black metal....!!!!!

@h8ed121

5 жыл бұрын

Yes this!!

@PRHILL9696

5 жыл бұрын

they are not black

6:40 is wrong about the term Black Metal being used to identify a music coming later. It was around in the early 80s. In fact I have a vid of a UK TV show from then identifying Black Metal as a genre. The 80s Black Metal bands are the black metal bands and the later ones something else. If a new music came along calling itself heavy metal and said hey Iron Maiden and Metallica, your'e no-longer Heavy Metal you're now proto-heavy metal, we';re heavy metal, I doubt people would accept it.

@littlebiscuit8746

8 жыл бұрын

Can you be brief about the tv show you're taking about?

@MerseYattle

8 жыл бұрын

I agree totally. It's just wrong and some sort of revisionism done wrong, the need to categorize and and split things that some people feel is just not healthy. xD One needs to look at the time that these early bands started, what separated them back then from the other bands back then, that's the definition simply going by logic, if there wouldn't have been that difference we wouldn't talk about these bands now in that genre defining context wouldn't we? Calling them later on proto or even not considering them being in that genre is just stupid. A good example I can make is Possessed, listen to Bonded By Blood for example and then Seven Churches, wow huge difference altogether, bigger difference than some later Death bands have to Seven Churches, so that bigger step of difference early on, THATS the sweet spot in defining things. It's just some sort of egocentric selective revisionist hair splitting movement in metal that is disrespectful to it's own origin.

@pietrayday9915

6 жыл бұрын

Believe it or not, I've more than once seen people try to make the argument that Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath "aren't metal". Seems like a lot of the younger folks want to scribble any bands that don't have growls and blastbeats off the metal list. At the same time, seems like a few of the older fans (including me) are more than happy to include bands like KISS, Van Halen, Led Zeppelin, Blue Oyster Cult, etc. as metal, or at least "proto metal". Anyway, I agree: the older bands are, to me, black metal, and the mass-produced Norwegian stuff is a sub-subgenre of that... black metal has lost a lot of its diversity over the years thanks to a mix of marketing and the subgenre's fans' resistance to evolution and experimentation in more recent years (the whole "tr00 kvlt" attitude that calls anything that strays very far from the basic blueprint "false poseur music" and so on....)

@JanderVK

5 жыл бұрын

@@pietrayday9915 Yeah, I've seen comments recently from kids saying that the Big Four/Testament/Exodus etc. aren't extreme metal. When it was Thrash & Speed Metal that defined the term extreme metal. More kids may be listening to metal these days, but they don't know shit about the history apparently.

where the hell is Samael? “Worship him” from 1990 was a seminal black metal album. they made a far bigger impact than Mayhem in the years 88-91. the other point is BATHORY were not proto-black. they WERE black metal. it’s all there on The Return & Under The Sign. they were more black metal than Mayhem were in the 80’s. Mayhem only became black metal when Dead joined. prior to that, they marketed themselves as Death Metal.

As a thrash fan, I don't really enjoy "black metal" but really enjoy venom, bathory and celteic frost, so yeah I think that the "proto-black metal" is more "black thrash"

@daisaigai7

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe that's what Black Metal is about. Thrash with satanic lyrics. Even an album like "Under a Funeral Moon" by Darkthrone is nearer to Thrash than to that shit that is consirdered "Black Metal" today.

LOL Metalheads discusing genres and is like watching Biologists discuss systemics and taxonomy. Love the term Proto-Black Metal. Hope the term catches on.

@tomspencer7307

7 жыл бұрын

Huayu Ke Must have I've only just seen this video but I've been describing 1st wave BM bands as Proto for ages. I wouldn't describe 2nd wave as Proto though. Mayhem for example are in my opinion the definition of BM, not proto.

Mercyful Fate/King Diamond was burning crosses, had the corpse paint, pentagrams, and Satanic lyrics from their beginnings, they along with Venom started it all in my opinion. then Slayer came along with Reign in Blood and kicked everybody's ass! lol

@MrCapone1996

7 жыл бұрын

James West Kreator briefly appeared

For me growing up in Australia in the early 90s it was Absu who introduced me first to black metal. Then Emperor. We had to import everything at that stage but Absu definitely left a mark on the early scene.

Does it bother anyone else that he didn't have a pre made Burzum sticker? Did they not think that people would bring up Burzum?

how about impaled nazarene?

Guys please, make a discussion on GOTHIC METAL. i think is glorious and deserves attention. Keep it up with the great job!

@nickglover8738

8 жыл бұрын

I got a lot of bands that could be on the chart

@021Sweden

8 жыл бұрын

+DanasLilMakeup i love sirenia's 2 first albums .. kinda hate how they later went in a "nightwish" direction

@021Sweden

8 жыл бұрын

+K Gubbas youre so fucking "true" the only kind of metal i cant stand is glam/hair metal .. i own 1200 cd's and it reaches from accept to the most primitive metal you'll ever hear

@obscurecult

8 жыл бұрын

+021Sweden exactly. Within Temptation's first too, is awesome. Later they started to sound like Evanescence for some reason!

@paulhetrick1759

6 жыл бұрын

021Sweden Glam is not metal.

If Sarcofago and Mayhem belong as a transitional sound, which in 86/87 they definitely are, then Bathory needs to be there with Under the Sign. That arguably sounds more like the Norwegian scene of the early 90s than Deathcrush does. Really fantastic video by the way. An excellent watch.

Pity I missed this. First wave black metal is one of my greatest musical inspirations. Would be worth mentioning the old school thrash bands that were important for that, like Sodom and Destruction.

No Carpathian Forest?!

No mention of Sigh? They pushed the avant-garde aspect of black metal and were on Deathlike Silence during the formularies years of the second wave

i agree with Mantas,i think that all the sub-genres have screwed things up a bit. i like most if not all metal varieties. it sucks that death metal fans hate on fans of metalcore. it should just be heavy metal and fans should not be so uptight.

How about Cthonic (Taiwan) and Sigh (Japan)? Should show how global black metal has gone. Apart from that, I just love the quote from Ihsahn! ... Unblack metal is simply Christian Black Metal - like Antestor. Should be mentioned, but could be added to a Christian Metal/White Metal branch.

@Lightstar7777

5 жыл бұрын

My band AZUL METALICO is like Christian Black Metal

Bathory is NOT "proto" anything. They (and Venom) ARE the founders of everything we know as Black Metal

@thenecrosanct4906

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, but musically speaking they are not pure Black Metal as we came to know it with the second wave. Granted, of the 5 bands listed as proto-Black Metal, Bathory sounds the most like the second wave. 'Under the Sign of the Black Mark' and 'Blood Fire Death' are the foundations of the Swedish/Norwegian Black Metal sound. But Bathory is still heavy on Thrash Metal influences as well. Venom, however, don't sound like 2nd wave Black Metal at all. They are much more a punk-inspired band than a Black Metal band. And their sound is far removed from what we call Black Metal today. Basically, what Mantas said in the video clip. All those subgenres, it's tiresome and frankly pathetic. It's METAL and that's all we should care about. Fuck the norm, fuck dogma. Black Metal is the most ironic form of Metal to begin with. It wanted to be grimmer and scarier than "regular" Metal, make their own rules and not be a part of the general consensus. Yet these days, Black Metal has turned into a dogma itself. It's like Ihsahn said: Black Metal is a spirit, it's not a certain sound or even a style of music. There's a world of difference between Rotting Christ and Mayhem, yet we still regard both as Black Metal bands. The whole "true" concept within Black Metal is a ludicrous and ironic joke.

@LouisWinthorpe622

4 жыл бұрын

@@thenecrosanct4906 1) It doesn't matter if Bathory were ever a band heavy with Thrash Metal influences. There are many Black Metal bands that are heavy on Electronic, Ambient, Folk, Symphonic influences, too. They're still Black Metal bands. 'Types of'. Black Metal. 'It's a feeling and an atmosphere', as Ihsahn put it. I do too. Bathory were the first. They weren't 'proto-'. Speed of some early songs 'hardly' negates them. FIRST BLACK METAL BAND. 2) You acknowledge the influence of their 3rd and 4th albums on the growing 2nd wave of Black Metal in Norway? Ha! The 1st and 2nd are more blueprints for that sound than the 3rd and 4th. Have you even heard any early Darkthrone, Immortal, Mayhem, Satyricon, Emperor or Burzum? Or much of the albums by the bands in the field that have been released ever since? You're refusing to acknowledge their influence because you think that the speed of most of it was because of 'thrash metal influences', aren't you? When Black Metal's fast it can be almost like a cacophonous blur. It's not trying to do a groovy or catchy, 'impressive', 'hey dudes, dig my new riff that I'm playing quite fast' riff. Black Metal is very often, very fast. Very, very, very like the 1st 2 Bathory albums. 3) The 1st FOUR Bathory albums redefined what recording production values actually meant to a helluva lot of people. Making what people had previously thought of as 'bad' production, but which was full of some kind of cavernous, 'necro', 'distant', or 'other worldly' atmosphere, into, actually being GOOD production and a sound actually worth striving for, instead of just trying to be 'heavy'. That's definitely what affected the early Darkthrone and Burzum albums, among many others: the way the 1st four Bathory albums were made. Most Black Metal sounds similar, in some way, to the music and the sounds being made at some point on the 1st four. Bathory weren't 'proto-' anything. BATHORY WERE THE FIRST BLACK METAL BAND. The root of the 'tree'. The one everybody has to reference to some degree for them to be Black Metal. It doesn't have to be consciously because just by making a Black Metal album, even if your doing it because of any Black Metal bands you are into; ergo you are doing it because of Bathory, fundamentally. All of the influence-taking just goes back to Bathory. Predominantly, the 1st four albums. This video with the progressive and thrash fan who doesn't really know that much about it, and the latecoming fanboy, with the daft plastic jacket with the pretend denim cut-off printed on it, who's been trying to stuff as many Black Metal bands into his ears as he can, for a couple of years, that he's lost sight of, or hasn't gave enough attention to, the stuff that is really significant and influential with the genre, is, in my opinion, an almost complete load of rubbish. Oh fuck, I forgot to mention the effect that Quorthon's vocal style has had and the kind of subject matter all of his lyrics have dealt in too; they, somehow, seem to have affected and pretty much defined almost everything that every band termed Black Metal has done, ever since. 'What an amazing coincidence'? As for you quoting Mantas in that clip, in some kind of reverence, too. He totally contradicted himself. He's a bit of a twat. He said the guys in Venom looked at all the NWOBHM bands that were around at the time and he felt like Venom were nothing to do with them. Then he said every kind of different metal bands should all come together, hold hands, buy each other a coke and just march under just the banner of 'Metal' (whatever the fuck that is supposed to entail). Well you can't have it both ways; him and you. As irritating as classification and pigeonholing can get to be, sometimes: it is, for completely obvious reasons, here to stay. And it ain't going no place ever, til the next mass extinction event (even then: only if we go out with it and, even then: only until the cockroach men gain enough mental sentience for them to start 'genre classificating', next). The first Black Metal band was Bathory. And just like Black Sabbath, there weren't an awful lot of bands who cottoned-on and started doing similar stuff to what they were doing until a good few years later on. Proto-fuckall.

Jason acts like he never heard of the first two albums of Sodom. Especially when he said "only war". I know what he's thinking, he's agent orange and ausgubombt on his mind but he's forgetting in the sign of evil. those days.

@Diabo4809

4 жыл бұрын

Yhap exactly! They are forgeting the first 2 cult primitive albuns that sodom made

I'm glad to see a black metal debate episode! In the future Sam, Please add Xasthur, Leviathan, Forgotten Tomb under Depressive Suicidal Black Metal!

@addisonlewis723

8 жыл бұрын

Yes, they should add DBMS!

You forgot to add dissection on the list and also book of black earth and fall of bastards.They're pure black metal

This channel needs more views. Great stuff!

Can’t mention burzum in Canada, it’s practically illegal lmao

Guys! NSBM episode would be very interesting!

Newcastle-upon-Tyne is also where Brian Johnson of AC/DC is from. In fact, his first major band was named after a moniker for their accent: Geordie.

The use of minor key signatures to me is essential to black metal.

How the fuck is Bathory not black metal?

@Morbidous

8 жыл бұрын

They definetely are, with the exception of their debut album that is closer to Thrash.

@RickGibbonsOfficial

8 жыл бұрын

The Return and Under The Sign Of The Black Mark are certainly black metal albums, I'd say.

@amixofeverything

8 жыл бұрын

And Quorthon's later works...which are more Viking Metal and Celtic Frost sounding death metal.

@Offdutysailor

7 жыл бұрын

I'd consider Bathory's earlier albums to be Thrash Metal with some elements of Speed Metal. Quorthon's shrieking vocals are certainly closer to black metal and Bathory in my opinion had the biggest impact on the emergence of the Black Metal scene in the 90s but they were never a black metal band.

@amixofeverything

7 жыл бұрын

Bathory's third album is, without a doubt, the first full on Black Metal album. It has the BM vocals, blast beats, and Satanic AF.

For me this thing was worth of watching because of the short clip with Dani. Yeah, I'm a big fan. He's very intelligent and so well spoken. And writes the best lyrics in metal. Or anywhere, really. I have never considered COF to be black metal although the esthetics and the vocals match. The satanic part is missing. But I don't know enough about this genre to have an opinion on this topic.

Burzzzum!,you make this kind of music to piss people off. He does that still, integrity. His music is probably the best too, many are influenced by it around the world like you said.

Leviathan, Drowning The Light, Rotting Christ, Ulver, Shining, Lifelover, Behemoth, Inquisition!

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

A bunch of those could certainly fit under a Depressive/Suicidal black metal branch :-)

@leonrisek6258

8 жыл бұрын

+Jason D only Shining and Lifelover out of these can be considered as depressive black metal ...

morbid n dead, thorns demo was the blueprint. Abigor needs to be on list and mystfier

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

+zeus hgoat c Euronymous and Snorre Ruch were certainly the architects of the open-string, non-palm muted sound that eventually became the black metal blueprint. Without that innovation, perhaps black metal would not have developed into what we know it today.

@zeushgoatc7004

8 жыл бұрын

He was definitely one of the most influential, as when he came back to the fold and evolving into industrialised black metal, satyricon completly changed their sound

@addisonlewis723

8 жыл бұрын

I agree. It was the blueprint for the second wave.

Other important bands were/are Mortuary Drape, Necromantia, Sadistik Exekution, Strid and the entire Temple Of Fullmoon scene in Poland. Polish Black Metal in 1993-94 was the real thing!

Prodo black metal is black metal! Just cuz it's early and different from today's black metal doesn't mean it's not black metal!

Jason has a nice voice!

Old man's child as well

Sam, I am a huge metal nerd and this show is awesome. I would like to see more talk about controversial bands in sub genres, as well as more discussion about lesser known bands. for example: Master's Hammer are new to me but apparently are key proto black metal visionaries, why did they make the list?

"Listen Mama I can really play and I got a scary face paint as well" lol

The moment when you enjoy people talking about black metal bands and then Cradle of Filth comes in the picture! :/

Umm... Cradle of Filth is NOT Norwegian Black Metal

also, not putting Sodom on that list is dumb. in regards to the elements they consider proto black, at the very least "in the sign of evil" can be considered proto bm atleast for its lyrical content and especially VOCALS. most of the first wave bands were considered "thrash" so to say that so bluntly about early Sodom is unfair.

I totally agree with Jason that Bathory's Under The Sign Of The Black Mark is black metal...The Return was damn close in it's own right. Bathory is the first full-on black metal band.

Sadistik Exekution from Australia

@TheGrav666

8 жыл бұрын

Fucking right. Another board for another time!

Favorite lock horns horns so far, death metal next week...right?!

@antontipura2686

8 жыл бұрын

Grindcore

@hedgeknight8646

8 жыл бұрын

+Anton Tipura Thanks lol, I kicked off at the end there. Good, pumped for some grind!! Nasum, Brutal Truth, and mighty Napalm here we come!!

@nickglover8738

8 жыл бұрын

Grindcore, close though

@hedgeknight8646

8 жыл бұрын

+Nick Glover lol thanks bro

@DIZCHU

8 жыл бұрын

Between grindcore and black metal I wonder where Anaal Nathrakh would fit.

Negură Bunget , amazing Black Metal band from Romania. Check out their album OM. Amazing atmospheric.

Ea Lord of the depths war BURZUM