Question: What are your thoughts on Dutch directness? Do you find it refreshing or off-putting?

@claudiavalentijn1457

3 ай бұрын

as a Dutch person I will say refreshing, ofcourse😉. One thing about 'trading honestly' though: our country colonized some oversea territories and there was nothing honest about that...

@schiffelers3944

2 ай бұрын

@@claudiavalentijn1457 Not sure they were lying either. Hey, we are here to trade. Hey, we want this land, your resources and products, and we want it for free. Dutch love free stuff, I'm Dutch I know. I think they were quite direct and open about these aspects. Was is fair? That's a different question, but is was recht door zee. (Rita Verdonk - maybe you are to young for this reference, or don't remember her.) Balkenende aka the Dutch Harry Potter, Wij moeten trots zijn op ons VOC verleden en de VOC mentaliteit. [I personally don't fully agree with that, but could we have gained independence without? Would/could the Netherlands exist as it does today without? Probably not! I did agree with the Balkenende norm; having a maximum wage as well not just a minimum. But that thought got a little re-shaped as well over time, and doesn't really exist.]

@schiffelers3944

2 ай бұрын

Directness has more to do with; *bespreekbaarheid.* Yes, alles moet bespreekbaar zijn. Bespreekbaarheid; being able to talk about things, also with social/cultural taboo and stigma's surrounding subjects and topics. You don't have to agree with things even if they are bespreekbaar. I don't agree with genocide, but am calling out the Israeli genocide of Palestinians. Take abortion, if it is not bespreekbaar it probably is illegal, and it kills women and children with failed pregnancies etc. Not all abortions are selfish women that don't want to be pregnant... But how will one know this if that is not bespreekbaar.

@claudiavalentijn1457

2 ай бұрын

trading honestly means that you will pay the worth a product has. But I agree; without the colonies, the Netherlands indeed wouldn't be where it is now economically. Also: I am 55.@@schiffelers3944

@adamwoolgar5624

24 күн бұрын

I visited the Heineken Experience in Amsterdam years ago. I walked into the reception and asked the lady behind the counter 'Can I buy a ticket here please?'. She sarcastically replied 'What do you think?' I was stunned!

Die bril staat je goed 4:12 😎 Goed uitgelegd al waren wij vroeger niet zo heel lief toen we onderhand de halve planeet hadden gekaapt ;p

Always find it very funny when people are upset with a direct answer to their own question. If you didn’t really wanted to know you shouldn’t have asked. 😊 The counterbalance is that an opinion on your glasses or hairstyle is not offered unsolicited because that would be rude, but if you ask. . . . . .

@theselfishcodependent

Күн бұрын

I know what you mean, thanks for sharing your perspective!

One thing about making assumptions: use the Dutch NIVEA acronym (named after a famous hand lotion brand): Niet Invullen Voor Een Ander. Meaning: don't assume someone opinion or motivation, ask instead.

@theselfishcodependent

13 күн бұрын

Oh interesting! I've never heard of it :)

Well spoken 👍👍👍

@theselfishcodependent

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Being part of a significant group, no matter how much it may contribute, buys you no kudos - you said it at 01:10 ff, we're individuals, and no matter if in your culture you wear shoes indoors, you don't get to do that in my house.

“We draaien niet om de doekjes heen. “ ❤😂

@user-wn8cp3qf1x

2 ай бұрын

We draaien er niet om heen of we winden er geen doekjes om.

Thanks for the vid. I often find non-direct people wasting me time and losing the goal of communicating. Last month I asked my team manager to write less text for tasks. Now I’m making TL;DR (too long don’t read) digest for his long paragraphs. His spend time writing long tasks, I spend time deciphering them and writing a TL;DR.

@theselfishcodependent

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching, Thomas! Oh, that's a nice trick you proposed. Great idea.

@qixxor2075

Жыл бұрын

Use chatgpt to summarize it.

Good vlog! Yes we are direct, so most friends (expats) I know don't find a prblem! 👍

@theselfishcodependent

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching! :)

I believe you overlooked egalitarianism in the Dutch historic perspective, nobility has been more and more sidelined since the Middle-Ages, beginning in Flanders but wet lands and nobility and classism don't match very well. Germans also believe they are direct, but not to their boss because they have very hierarchical work relations. This is particularly relevant for expats because the alternative for directness is complicated difficult social rules, the art of reading minor details in facial expression and intonation, the art of beating around the bush, these are difficult skills learned from a young age and therefore allow upper class people to identify people who fail at it as lower class, 'not one of us' and exclude. Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn al these complicated social rules of communication to function... So especially immigrants should appreciate the directness and not moan about hurt feelings, it's only feelings that get hurt, nothing really happened. Walk it off, it's a non event. Getting nowhere because you don't master the complicated communication rules, now that does hurt your career and your happiness. Don't know how the economic contribution of expats is an argument, it's most likely a net loss and if you break a window that isrepaired it contributes to the GDP too, but what's in it for us? We already do speak English to accomodate expats and pay more for our housing and lots of other stuff. No, I'm not prepared to pussyfoot around potentially hurt feelings or meet in de middle, take it or leave it. There are billions of earthlings that would like to live in the Netherlands, it's not a buyer's market.

Nice video straight to the point keep going 🍀🍀🍀🍀💯

@theselfishcodependent

8 ай бұрын

Thank you! Appreciate the support 🤗

@obimk1104

22 күн бұрын

@@theselfishcodependent Dutch directness won't do well in many American TV shows.

Good video, for once I actually agree with you. Good tips on how to deal with it for immigrants. I like that you made an effort to dig deeper. Here are some extra truths: there are layers of directness. A lot depends on how things are said. Tone and expression makes all the difference. Some things are said in a way not to hurt your feelings, whilst others aren’t, then it’s considered rude. Some are considered funny and some sarcastic. Expats may find this confusing and take offense, and sometimes they maybe insulted without knowing it.

being direct makes life so much easier. if you care for someone, respect someone and definetly if you love someone, i think you can and should always be clear, honest and direct to them. if they dont like your awnser, then maybe they shouldn't have asked. assuming your intentions are good and pure off course. me myself would always pick a hard truth above a sweet lie and a clear awnser or opinion above an awnser or opinion that i will have to interpret for myself how it was actually meant and hope i get it right. as long as you are not rude and you do not constantly give your opinion about anything without being asked, you can never be to direct. i thought you said expats represent 70 % off the country's workforce but i probably heard it wrong.. you said 17 %, didn't you?

@theselfishcodependent

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing your perspective. It sounds like a healthy approach to assume that people have the best intention in mind until they prove it wrong. To your questioin, yes, it's indeed 17%.

Rudeness and testing the water - het water testen. How far can you go? Where is the personal line and boundary of that person. If you want to get to know a person and how they are; how far you can go with them, up to here and not further. This is a way to establish that. If you went to far - the directness implies this will be communicated back, and you can real in. Or you agree to disagree, you agree that you got different views/opinions; are different persons - and call it a day, no hard feelings, only clearity on where you both stand.

Got an issue: get a tissue ❣️

Our language has harsh sounds (also a little depending on the Dutch regional location), our communication style can be harsh; we/the culture for example uses diseases as curse words. It's part of the harsh reality and truth of life. Living here was harsh, batteling the sea and "winning" was a harsh life. It is what it is. There are also parts of the Netherlands with also Dutch culture that has this to a lesser degree. Take the word: Kanker (lekker), in Limburgs this sounds different and also feels different. Het bekt niet "zo lekker". This is more a thing from Holland and probably mostly south with the rrrrrrolling R. Because when I play this in my mind - people saying this, the R is rolling. However this is also not said in all occasions or settings. It all depends and mostly with the personal enviroments being raised with. Not just for the Dutch, but in general with humanity. Through internal contact we like all cultures share things with each other. Why that is Dutch, as the same in Germany is German? National identities. German directess. Individualism is more dependent on identities. What is yours, not that of your community; whO aRe yoU? I use U a lot especially while in service and with strangers, people older than me, etc. Dank U wel, alst U blieft (alstublieft vs alsjeblieft) I also use sorry a lot, I can say sorry for saying sorry - Example: If you tell me not to say sorry; I will say: Sorry for saying sorry. Language is there to express ourselves, our thoughts and feelings - maybe a different word from a different language feels better, nicer: Mercy. I also use mercy a lot. Or just put words together; Valse fokhond. I once got mad at a person (a boy bothering a girl sexually) and said this; people went what did you say, and it caught on for a moment. The words already existed in Dutch, them being used in that way was not that common. Vals here is not just fake but agressive in meaning. Like a valse hond. Fok is breed so a breeding dog... Fok is also related to the English Fuck, or vice versa. So Valse Fokhond was a two layerd insult. As a fake breeding dog, and as an agressive "dog" that only wants to fuck. When men are behaving as dogs, women are behaving as bitches.

16th century Dutch, so it depends on how you view the Netherlands; 1. as is now. 2. as was then. 16th century Netherlands was including Belgium and Luxemburg. The majority of this Netherlands was not Protestant, the south was and is traditionally Catholic. As the Roman Empire limes also show in very large parts. There are connections to all that. Dutch history begins with Roman colonisation.

You're too kind, when the questions get too direct the response may be, is that any of your business?

@theselfishcodependent

8 ай бұрын

That's a very direct reply to Dutch directness 😃 Would it be perceived rude in the Netherlands, in your opinion?

@joopdevries2657

8 ай бұрын

@@theselfishcodependent, well in my opinion it's a little rude but no more then asking a very direct question like say "how much money do you make". The side effect of the "is that any of your business" would be telling the person that the question is unwanted. And I don't see anything wrong with that. (just my opinion)

@theselfishcodependent

8 ай бұрын

@@joopdevries2657 thank you for sharing your perspective!

@jingle1161

Ай бұрын

Nope. It's just a direct way of setting your boundaries. Say it with a smile and most Dutch will just move on with the conversation. @@theselfishcodependent

Nice video, so if I ask you for your opinion I want to know your opinion not some cotton candy version of your opinion because you want to please me with assumptions and socialisations. Its your opinion. Or vice versa it's my opinion. Opinions can change, its not that personal it says more about the person giving the answer. Example; "do you like my haircut": It's not my favorite, I liked the previous one better... things like this one could hear, say more about the opinion rather than if your haircut is wrong, of messed up, or anything personal. If you take it that personal that is something you need to reflect on yourself.

It's not either/or. We Dutch are simply direct AND rude‼️ Get over it. 😂. I did.