The Dunsley neutraliser sounds like a wrestling move.

That's just brilliant! Thank you! I'm going to have to watch it over a few more times to get it set in my head, but thank you!

Great video Roger, thanks for that. Good to see if a Dunsley guy is watching and offers to invite you into the factory to see a real life demo. If he does, please take your camera. I want to get one of these neutralisers as soon as i can, just waiting for extension to start. 👍

Good presentation Roger. I blogged here some time ago but I could not upload any pictures for you that you asked for. My "Dunsley" is the hot water tank itself. My plumber explained that to me. The water is classed as "Dirty water" The wood burner, oil boiler, gas boiler and any other hot water supply, ie, solar panels, thermal panels, can all be run through the tank. It is a "Thermal store" My hot water is supplied by an outboard heat exchanger. I have leaned a lot from plumbers/heating engineers. The only way to know my system is to see it. Keep up the good work Roger.

I always recommend a 'C' type neutralizer (installed beneath the HW cylinder).

Very interesting stuff! Thank you Roger!

Excellent Roger, thank you

Excellent information, thanks for the video 👍🏾

Fitted a few of these years ago I didn't think they still made them 👍

Very informative, thank you. I now know that as a DIY'er I made a complete stone's of it.

Fitted a few thermal stores work very well

I used a laddomat charging unit and thermal store. More expensive but stove got up to temp quicker and then only supplied hot water (81' thermo as I recall) to the store.

The video was fantastic. :)

Great video! The thermal store you describe sounds like a buffer tank - or are they different? Looking forward to the Mixergy video.

Hi Rodger another great video .I use Heatgenie from systemlink look them up good kit plumber 35 years

Fantastic video as always, thank you Roger! Are there any unvented options available or vent pressurised options that can vent without the use of vent pipe up in the loft. Additionally allowing for connection to a combi-boiler, radiators and say a megaflow unvented cylinder? Thank you 🙏👍

I do like the sign above the white board just to remind us who's doing the drawing. Like we don't recognise Rodger or his master pieces. 😉😉👍. Thanks Rodger.

Great video but my question/issue is that 28mm, neutralize, additional pumps, heatstore all ads up to cost, and in the end you spend more and more. What about something simpler as pushing hot air American style, any idea how to achieve this?

Fitted lots of Dunslely Neutraliser systems in the past, it's very current now

I’d like to understand that bit more about the system boiler and unvented cylinder.... Is my Joule single coil no good and would need replacing with a twin or three coil and then keep the Dunsley circuit and the DHW circuit separate via the multi coil?

Hi Rodger, firstly I do enjoy the videos you post so thanks for your time and effort. There is another way of linking a solid fuel burner into a system ( any energy source or system ) and is more automatically controlled. I used to take the Dunsleys out to fit these. It make the stove fully pumped. Have a look at a H2 panel Made by heating innovations. All the best. Nathan.

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Nathan I have seen the panel and I was going to do a follow up video on it but the subject is running out of steam. I might return to it later.

@nathanpeel9492

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder fair enough, they also do other panels that allows you to link airsource, ground source and solar. I have had many encounters with it and found it the most successful. Not to worry, thanks for the reply and wish you all the best for future videos.

@vwshark1986

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder I have am H2 type system, linked up my solid fuel, oil boiler and Electric boiler (modulated from excess solar) to make 3 heat sources in to hot water and rads, I made my own controll system that all works automatically. all the boiler can run by them selves or in any or all link up modes. heat from the solid fuel first satifies the rads and then the hot water, after it dumps heat to all rads. and in the event of power loss it reverts back to a gravity feed to hot water. and of cours has an unintrupted vent pipe on the hot side of the fire. been running faultlessly for 8 years

Hello Mr Bisby. I have fitted one in a bungalow with copper cylinder close to the floor. The only way I could get it to work properly was to put the 28mm return from the Dunsley back to the back boiler was to go under the floor boards to get the thermo action/ gravity circulation. Delighted with it. The oil fired boiler, the wood burner or both at the same time. Got on well. 28mm is imperative.

@joebrennan.4389

Жыл бұрын

Can it work with a gas boiler....?

Cheers Roger, super video. Just the sort of thing i'm currently looking at for my new heating system with multiple heat sources. I was hoping to avoid all the tanks i the loft though. Would it be possible for example to have a Thermal store/buffer tank with three coils, in my garage, a coil for the wood burner, one from the gas boiler and one from solar thermal with a low head f&e tank for the wood burner just above. (I expect that I would have to pump the wood burner circuit). And possibly An immersion heater for Solar PV/Battery. Then use the stored water for heating and unvented cylinder on an S plan? I would very much appreciate your thoughts. Cheers, Rick

Hi Skill Builder What is the best way to go with a wrap around wòod stove and an oiler boiler: Gledhill torrent thermal store or Dunsley neutraliser or H2 panel? Please help as it is driving me mad.

fitted one, 25yrs back

My parents had this sort of system inn their house since the mid 80's with 2 wood burners and an oil boiler feeding into the neutraliser. Can anyone recommend a decent control system for this as the one they have is now rather antiquated.

Can you recommend a good book on this stuff?

This is flipping brilliant! Richard,would this system be able to handle car tyres? I know it’s not very environmentally friendly but,what with the rise in heating bills I’m all out of options!

Plate heat exchanger will not form scale if one side is on the open vented circuit and the other on the gas boiler unvented circuit.

Could you do a schematics using solid fuel fire and oil burner using just a thermal store cylinder without the header tanks in the attic.

Any idea how much it would cost to install the system and much it costs to run the pumps

Thanks Roger, interesting, on the very last system you showed, the pipes from the log burner go into the hot water tank on the drawing, would they be connected to the coil? Or are they heating the water in the tank directly. And would it need a pump?

@ciaranamhain

Жыл бұрын

As I understand it they are heating the water directly. The water is not used for taps etc but is contained within the system purely to store heat. Hopefully Roger will correct me if i misunderstood.

@pauln7422

Жыл бұрын

@@ciaranamhain thanks

Twin coil cylinder or injector tees?

Can this be used alongside a electric powered boiler?

Have you a video where I just want to get a wood boiler connected to a tank, no other system in place, no oil boiler etc.

Hi Roger. Does the neutraliser negate the need for an injector Tee in the system? I have a simple Rayburn powered gravity fed HW + CH system that I installed with a homemade injector tee on the radiator return / tank coil bottom. I'm thinking of adding another heat source at some point and have been gifted a Dunsley neutraliser. I can't see any ref to an injector tee and logic seems to suggest one isn't needed if using this combined neutral point. Thanks

@SkillBuilder

9 ай бұрын

You don't need the injector tee because it is a low velocity point but I don't think leaving it in will do any harm

@newbeginningsinbulgaria

9 ай бұрын

@@SkillBuilder Thanks

Who fits this type of systems in north east Scotland?

is it possible to have a wood stove with a vented loop heat a coil in an unvented cylinder so you keep the benefit of mains water pressure for taps, without the downsides of it exploding.

@garydulson9018

Жыл бұрын

No, you cannot use an unvented cylinder with solid fuel. A coal fire is uncontrollable so you can't regulate the heat source.

Quick question . Is it 28mm on both pipes to and from the wood burner . Thanks

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Yes, correct you need to have a column of cooler water to push the hot water

@darrentaff8374

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder appreciated 👍

I dont understand how you can have a pump directly before the solid fuel boiler stove? Its suited to open vented systems which with a pump it isnt. What am i missing? Is this not a diagram for a solid fuel boiler?

That plate system seems like a self-contained heat exchange (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm far from an expert on this); why not just pour vegetable oil in it to transfer the heat instead of scaling water? (I hope this question proved my point on being far from an expert, and a possible answer might bring me closer to one day maybe being an expert ;) ). Great channel, btw. I've been binging your videos these last few days.

Roger, be honest, you didn't do that drawing on the whiteboard did you?

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

In all truth I did do it, but it took me a while because I used a straight edge and followed the grid lines so it would have added five minutes to the video.

@richardgraham65

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder Good on you Roger, I thought you might have paid someone to do it for you as it was so much better than your usual sketches! - Great info and great videos too thanks.

Does the CH pipework need to be in copper as well?

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

it depends on the temperature. I would say that pumping the water around a central heating circuit will be a lot cooler than the gravity circuit

@garydulson9018

Жыл бұрын

Standard rules apply, need to be copper for a metre on the flow from the coal fire

@flashmore3

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder @Gary Dulson I ask because I have existing gas fired closed system with multi layer pipe and Id like to add the solid fuel option. Wouldnt a three way mixing valve and a pump work before heat exchanger on the solid fuel side (obviously gravity fed) be more simple. Or would it pump the water straight out the expansion pipe? Cheers

@flashmore3

Жыл бұрын

@@garydulson9018 If wood fired, coal or solar Id do entire thing in copper, I rephrased my question kind of, cheers.

You would be in shock how many plumbers this flies over the head off. I run 2 boiler stoves, the go direct to 500 litre thermal store. Central heating then runs off plate heat exchanger pressured heating at 1 bar. 2 stoves are fire place insert stoves 11kw each. I run the circulation pump to the store for tje first hour once the pipes hit 45c then let natural circulation take over. Away quicker to heat the store. Store runs Under floor heat for 2 days without heat demand if topped to 75-90c. It works but heat leak rads, expansion roof space loops do play against the store concept. Fuel wise better now. It took to block the outside air intake pipes by 70% plus screw the primany air 70% to get the right flame. Now a loaded fire goes 2 hours without a reload. A basket of 6*2" timber blocks runs 4-5 hours. Store then good for 2 further days. Plumber wise i fitted all myself. All in 28mm soldered cooper. Too many plumbers just simply dont have any idea of systems like this.

@mrmaranello44

Жыл бұрын

Hi Oliver, i have something like this in mind. Would you be able to share a schematic of your system, please?

Kinda odd to see these open vented systems being used, here in Finland all of the new heating systems are sealed, with a membrane isolating the water from air in the expansion tank. Safety valves will relieve the pressute in case of a problem. It's supposedly better for the pipe longevity, as no new oxygen is introduced in the water.

@paul756uk2

Жыл бұрын

Yes, but this is the recognised way of plumbing in a solid fuel system because of the much higher risk of the water boiling because of the difficulty in regulating the water temperature. A sealed system would or could be dangerous. The vast majority of heating in the UK is by gas and again the majority of those is with a combi boiler in a sealed system.

@jannepeltonen7493

Жыл бұрын

@@paul756uk2 yeah, here in addition to the pressute relief valve an emergeny cooling valve also must be fitted if a solid fuel boiler is used. It will cool off the boiler with water mains if temperature rises too much

Roger...I am about to plumb a torrent gledhill ov. To wood burning stove and gas supply. Maybe worth a video...Hampshire based

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Great idea, When are you doing it?

@KkkKkk-bc7jf

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder I have sent you a message via your website

Roger - sorry that's wrong "water like electricity" takes the path of least resistance the pump will short circuit to the NP - Kind regards AndyT.

galvanized F&E tank needed ? with a brass balled ballvalve.

@davidkneale8552

Жыл бұрын

Ideally, but im sure there are thousands of plastic tanks still doing a job. the controls would hopefully allow excess heat to be pumped away to rads before any boiling occurs up in the tank area.

@stephenflower2486

Жыл бұрын

@@davidkneale8552 failsafe, if the controls fail the system must be capable of handling the heat.

It's just a low loss header

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

yep

@davidkneale8552

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillBuilder A low loss header is a modern version of the neutralizer really. I've fitted them since the early 70s and im about to replace one shortly [ if it needs it after inspection] . I'd love to do a couple of videos to show how we did other plumbing stuff back then! i dont think some of your younger viewers/ plumbers would believe the process for example of putting a basin waste in a basin. Make a lead washer after drawing round waste, cut out by hammer and old screwdriver. Apply gloss paint to underside of basin waste hole, roll up a linseed oil putty sausage and wrap round slotted waste top and bottom of waste hole,apply lead washer with gloss paint to adhere to putty,apply another sausage of putty under lead washer then tighten a brass backnut to seal. Now you know why its such a hard job to get the bloomin' things off especially in situ 50 years later! ps no ptfe tape or silicone back then either. We never had the problems with sealing shower trays that seem common now. Most were just tiled onto and grouted but were probably so heavy they'd never move ! Cheers Roger from David kneale plumber Isle of man. Im just coming to the end of my plumbing days after 50 years this September. I'm not sure all the changes that have come in are improvements either, toilet innards especially.i have just been greasing a big brass/ bronze wc syphon that is 93 years old and still working but by the same token ive been back to a modern push button syphon that i fitted about 6 months ago that is sticking on the cable .aghhh!

why is it called a neutraliser? because it neutralizes excess heat or....?

@DD-sd4we

Жыл бұрын

Pressure between two heating systems👍

@SkillBuilder

Жыл бұрын

It gives a neutral point where one circuit won't pull on the other

@garydulson9018

Жыл бұрын

As it says, its the neutral point of hydraulic separation.

What???

@mchaeljones5993

Жыл бұрын

Low loss header

Not needed, overcomplicates a relatively simple system

You are making this so complicated. Why not just use a steam furnace? Like older houses in the US. All you would have is a furnace, pipes and radiators. You will not need all of this other stuff.

@frzen

Жыл бұрын

This system could be approaching twice as efficient as a steam boiler. That's why

@habbekrats123

Жыл бұрын

This tank on the loft is a bit of a Brittish concept, we do not use this at our side of the pond.

@saulgoodman2018

Жыл бұрын

@@frzen steam furnaces are efficient.

Better step away from wood burners

@garydulson9018

Жыл бұрын

Correct, burn coal it's hotter than wood

@ELGee1

Жыл бұрын

@@garydulson9018 burn nothing. Only a forest fire is natural of coast by itself