Thanks for watching, check out me other bits! B-Roll: kzread.info/dash/bejne/n3tpybGzdM3XeKg.html Outro song: kzread.info/dash/bejne/noRozJVpmtHSmso.html Instagram: instagram.com/plainly.john/ Patreon: www.patreon.com/Plainlydifficult Merch: plainly-difficult.creator-spring.com Twitter:twitter.com/Plainly_D

@debbieellett9093

Жыл бұрын

Thank you John, I could listen to you all day. And I appreciate you bringing these disasters to light.

@philbert006

Жыл бұрын

I don't know if this is the place for suggestions, but I want to offer up the I40 I240 propane truck disaster on December 23, 1988 in Memphis, TN.

@hereticpariah6_66

Жыл бұрын

....how 'bout that time the us government wanted to blow up the moon to freak out the russians? ...boy, what a time That was! Maaaayybe you's could cover That one!

@storiesincolour5205

Жыл бұрын

Good work bud; Harrow & Wealdstone - not Willesden :)

7:50 It's interesting to note that the "temporary structure" which replaced the bridge is still in place to this day.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Indeed it is!

@Merennulli

Жыл бұрын

I can't help but feel that is foreshadowing for a future video. We have a long history of keeping temporary things to save money and then being surprised when it doesn't last forever.

@twocvbloke

Жыл бұрын

Standard boger's affair, make a quick fix, call it temporary, and forget all about it, and then we wait for it to come back and bite someone in the backside for leaving it forgotten... :S

@henryptung

Жыл бұрын

Nothing more permanent...

@DjResR

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Nothing is more permanent than temporary._

Driver True's sister was a neighbour of ours in South-East London and came round on the night of the disaster to use our telephone to find out whether her brother was involved. The sad outcome of this event was that, although her brother was acquitted by the enquiry he always felt responsible, never recovered mentally and spent the rest of his life in a psychiatric hospital.

@James-co2nb

Жыл бұрын

That's tragic, poor guy.

@carlteacherman194

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I was told about that and I believe he tried to end his life. My family all come from that area.

@randibgood

Жыл бұрын

So sad. Hate he had to live with that for the rest of his days.

@john-paulsilke893

Жыл бұрын

It would have been better for the man to receive punishment. After at least 5 years in prison he could justify his actions as being punished and thus perhaps recover. I for one couldn’t imagine living after causing so much unintentional death and suffering.

@jlaws8740

Жыл бұрын

@@john-paulsilke893 He made an error, which did cause death. And the guilt alone would have been punishment enough, but imprisoning him?

As a passed fireman I'm afraid to say that some drivers only thought a fireman was there to shovel coal. With the worst you could work together for 7 or 8 hours in a hot cramped cab without a word being said. If you were lucky you might get a grunt or two. Go to put the injectors on when he thought otherwise your hand got a hard thump, after 2 or 3 times of that you thought......but this type of driver would push you back so that he could see the signals.

@borderlands6606

Жыл бұрын

There were stories of drivers putting a chalk line on the footplate of the cab, with instructions that the fireman must not cross it. I'm sure that's not typical, but it shows how tyrannical some could be.

@filanfyretracker

Жыл бұрын

​@@borderlands6606 That is what those of us who watch air crash report videos would call terrible CRM or Crew Resource Management. Of course when this event took place, bad CRM was common in aviation too. And shocker to nobody it caused incidents and losses in that transport industry as well.

@robfinch1522

Жыл бұрын

My father was a fireman on the Southern Railways footplate during the 40s and 50s. He said if you had a bad driver he would "waste" steam, sometimes deliberately to keep you stoking and make work. At the end of a shift your muscles would let you know the difference between a good and bad driver.

@tubester4567

Жыл бұрын

im sorry for your loss.

@andrewtaylor5984

Жыл бұрын

Such was the hierarchy in the days of steam that a fireman would dare not comment on the way the driver was handling the engine. In the Bourne End derailment of 1945, it is almost certain that the driver dozed off at the regulator, and his fireman would not have dared to wake him, or if he did it was too late. Both were killed instantly.

My late father, a lifelong BR signalman was one of the first to arrive on the scene. He ran all the way down the tracks from North Kent East Junc signalbox that fateful night and he had not long started as a box boy or trainee signalman. It changed him badly and he suffered from mental health problems, he had a total breakdown when having worked relief the prior week to the Hither Green crash at the signalbox there that he just broke down completely even though it was not a signalling fault or remotely anything to do with him, it was too much. BR to be fair treated him well, they nursed him back into the job putting him in small boxes until he found his feet, a shame in his last couple of years with them they treated him atrociously at London Bridge, he was given the signalling managers job at Edinburgh Waverley but the unions kicked off despite my father actually coming from Edinburgh but the unions won and my father just lost heart with them all and he went downhill pretty fast. He found his feet again in retirement, finding a decent paid job at Swanage's heritage railway so it did kinda end well for him. He left BR with the most "passings out" record of any signalman, BR promised him as well the home starter signal of Cuxton box which he practically rebuilt as much as he rebuilt Snodland and Aylesford boxes all listed today, BR never did as this was the new railways, doing stuff like honouring a bloke who went 20 odd years without a day sick and worked every ounce of overtime he could find and wrote a fair bit of the rule book in modernising signalling practice, yeah they were pretty awful the way the dishonoured the bloke :(

@robertwilloughby8050

8 ай бұрын

The railwayman and writer Stan Hall was very complimentary about the actions of a "Young Signalman" during this accident. Do you suppose this could have been your father?

Both my grandfathers were at this, my paternal in his role in the fire brigade and my maternal with the police. It was horrendous.

@carlteacherman194

Жыл бұрын

Yes, my family too. My grandfather at Lewisham council opened Ladywell baths as a temporary mortuary.

It's unbelievable that the fireman wasn't supposed to look out for signals UNLESS the driver ordered him to do so. In continetal Europe it's standard for both driver and fireman (assistant on electrics and diesels, most our trains still have two-man engine crews) to look out for signals ahead and call their aspect aloud ALL THE TIME

@dkbmaestrorules

Жыл бұрын

Which European country are you in where two-man crews are still normal? 🤔

@juk-hw5lv

Жыл бұрын

@@dkbmaestrorules Poland

@jimwinchester339

Жыл бұрын

Moreover, I don't accept the assumption that the driver on the left can't see signals on the right. Think of a camera: if the window is an aperture (it is), then light passing through it on one side exist on the opposite side. It is actually easier to see through the window ACROSS to the other side of where you are sitting (though you may not be looking that way most of the time).

@carlteacherman194

Жыл бұрын

Plus, go on the footplate of an unrebuilt WC/MN/BB class loco and try to see clearly ahead through the tiny dirty windows down the streamlined casing. Even on a clear day it's pretty difficult.

@SnakebitSTI

Жыл бұрын

Lots of operating procedures from back in the day are unbelievable from the perspective of modern safety standards.

My family was heavily involved in this disaster. (it certaintly wasn't just a bad day at the office as you comment). It was a very freezing cold winter's night night with smog, not just fog. My grandfather worked for Lewisham council and opened up Ladywell baths as a temporary morturary. My great aunt Gladys was in Tresilien Road at the time and a volunteer for the WRVS who helped with casualties. My Uncle Len had a barber's shop nearby and gave up all his towels. My Aunt just missed the Hayes train because she was having an affair with another man in Villiers Street by Charing Cross station. The Dartford train above only just stopped short because the driver, Donald Corke managed to apply the mechanical breaks with a bridge girder bent in front of him. He later became my uncle's neighbour and I spoke to him about the crash. And... my mother was in hospital...giving birth...to me! 10 years later, and there was another crash not far away at Hither Green. I was at Grove Park at the time and watched it unfold with my parents.

@grannyt6819

Жыл бұрын

Wow! Thank you for the additional information. It adds a lot to the story, details like this. I always want to know how people respond to these disasters. Quite a family legacy, especially with your birth happening just then.

@sophierobinson2738

Жыл бұрын

Fascinating!

@jonslg240

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info! Btw it's sickening that the person on the signal-side (right side) of the train said "my driver didn't tell me to look at the signals. He also didn't step into my side to look." thus escaping responsibility for it in his mind. He was absolutely a big-time part of the reason this crash happened.

@jonslg240

Жыл бұрын

This was probably the most fascinating story I've ever seen regarding a "I(or my family) was there"-type comment. The most interesting by far, too. P.S. try not to be mad about the "bad day at the office" comment, it's just sarcasm and satire.. two ways MANY people naturally use to cope with tragedies Edit: I don't get how this is a 6, though. 89 people died "instantly" (not instantly for many), and this has to easily be at least an 8.

@TrickiVicBB71

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. Always good to see someone's personal POV of such an event

My Grandfather should have been on the train from Charing Cross that was involved, but for unknown reasons was on the next train which of course was delayed by the incident. My Mother said that they were very concerned once the news broke, as it was the train he normally would have been on. As this was the days of no mobile phones he was not able to contact anyone to say which train he was on and that he was ok.

Please do the Granville Rail Disaster 1977 in Sydney, Australia. I was a kid home from school that day and remember it vividly. I think almost 100 people died from it and it caused major changes in railways in New South Wales.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@neilplatten5818

Жыл бұрын

I came here to say the same thing. Another option could be the Waterfall accident.

My farther should have been on this train. Due to thick fog in Wolverhampton the trolley buses were also running late. He missed it unknown by my mother. They had got married that same day my mom thought she’d been married and widowed in the same day. It was the last day of my dads ten day leave and was returning to camp RAF Benson. Today is Father’s Day my Dads 88. He’s very ill and wonder if he’ll still be here this time tomorrow. He’s been a inspiration great tutor and best dad you could imagine. A true inspiration to all over his life.

@karenmurkot2153

Жыл бұрын

What a nice tribute to your Dad!

I was travelling on the 5:00pm from cannon st to Margate on that night. A friend of mine was seated in the front two cars but went to the buffet car so missing out on being one of the casualties. Thanks for reporting this.

My grandfather was a passenger in the rear carriage of the Ramsgate train. Physically unharmed but mentally scarred. We only found out at his funeral a few years ago when it was mentioned in his eulogy - he’d never mentioned it to his children or grandchildren.

I remember my Dad telling me about this, living barely a mile away at the time, the Hither Green train disaster was even closer, right outside my front door! Single yellow is proceed with caution as the next signal is most likely at Red.

I've watched for, gosh, years it feels like and I will never tire of John's belated weather reports. Keep em coming John. ♥️

@foo219

Жыл бұрын

Same here!

@johntaylorson7769

Жыл бұрын

@@foo219 John and David Lynch: making sure I know the weather in both southern London and LA. And now I want a weather based podcast with these two on it.

This saved me from boredom! Ironically saved by a disaster video.

@BeautyByLinnoria

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂meee tttoooo

@eeveeboi7777

Жыл бұрын

Great to listen to while you’re adding lore to your campaign

@lukeboyer4071

Жыл бұрын

😂same bro

John, I wish you could meet my husband. He would happily spend his days watching trains and filming B roll with you. He'd love to hear stories about these disasters and the changes they've inspired while you both worked. Then he'd want you to discuss making music. He'd even buy you meals for it. Wonderful video, as always!

I sometimes wonder if the colored-light signals may have contributed to this and similar crashes. The Pennsylvania Railroad in the USA used positional signals of three white lights (vertical = proceed, diagonal = caution, horizontal = stop). The reason I heard from my railroading family was that the crew could lose the ability to distinguish colors while staring out into the dark. BTW, my grandfather was a PRR track supervisor during WWII, and had to clear up after a terrible derailment in Philadelphia on Labor Day 1943. 80 people killed. Might be a good subject for a video.

@myra0224

Жыл бұрын

Even if the colour can't be seen, they're also in different spots just like road lights are

@JasperJanssen

Жыл бұрын

I thought one of the problems was that railway lights aren't *consistently* in different places? Ie, sometimes there's all 4 lights, sometimes just 3 or 2 or even 1? Plus in reduced visibility like fog you don't see the backing plate, so you don't know which of the single lights is on. And they're not in consistent places off the track, either, they could be left right or over top mounted sideways...

Ty John, very sad story of simple mistakes leading to disastrous results. I think sometimes the world is held together with sticky tape and string and one snap leads to doom.

@finnledoux4584

Жыл бұрын

Sticky tape string rubber bands and paper clips

@RCAvhstape

Жыл бұрын

Duck tape and chewed bubblegum

I've been a sub since 2019, and I'm glad you moved on from atomic disasters. Because my first comment after finding your channel and binge watching that I was sure I was on every possible US watch list.

🤔🤨 Honestly, I'm actually surprised that 'Moments from Disaster' or 'Autopsy of Disaster' (similar shows) havent picked you up yet for your writing & research abilities. You can make the most mundane events seem absolutely fascinating. Thank you Friend, for another absolutely TopQual production 👌🏻🤩💕💕

@gowerski

Жыл бұрын

i would much rather John stayed here to share his talents with us

@l.f.antrider1795

Жыл бұрын

Yeah John does his own thing well and people should offer to want to come onto his channel and Collab

@ariariaris

Жыл бұрын

it’s probably more profitable to run his own channel at this point. Plus if he went to work for someone else’s content he’d probably lose creative control. And his videos are quite stylish, he has a very recognizable unique visual and sound style, I even wish he’d bump the music up a bit! It would be a shame to give all this up.

@sarahchan-reeves8829

Жыл бұрын

@@ariariaris oh yeah, totally agree. I just meant I'm surprised there hadn't been an 'offer' yet. YT long run would pay much better, the monetisation is tenuous though. Network job only + would be the job security. But over the years I can remember John himself saying "sorry the upload is running late, but I had [activity] with my son" and there's no working at your own pleasure/pace, sadly.

@SharmV

Жыл бұрын

TV is dead bro, why work for a tv outlet when you can be your own boss with sponsors

On the original Battle of Britain class locos, driver visibility was always an issue. Small windows, and being slab sided the exhaust used to be drawn down onto the windows.

@andrewtaylor5984

Жыл бұрын

The Southern Railway Light Pacifics, of which 34066 was one, were built to two widths. I think that the first 70 were wider and 34071 onwards were the narrower ones. The narrower ones were designed to work over the Tonbridge to Hastings line, though there are no known instances of their doing so. Rebuilding of the Light Pacifics began earlier in 1957, and continued until 1961, when 60 had been done. The others remained in their original condition, with steam being rapidly replaced. Surprisingly, 34066 was returned to service in original form, and remained so until withdrawn in 1966. Referring to the collision again, I know someone who knew Driver Trew personally, and I gather that he was a broken man for the rest of his life. He was, in fact, due to retire not long after the accident.

Crazy how such a simple mistake/oversight could lead to so many deaths. Terrifying.

It’s nice to hear about disasters early on a Saturday morning. Thank you, PlainlyDifficult!

I really enjoy your videos, especially those concerning British Trains (I hesitated to say "Railways" to avoid confusion with the Nationalised industry of BR) You seem to put a lot of effort into gathering the facts. well Done John .

I live in Australia and have done some work on rail-related projects. It baffles me that in the 2020s AWS & TPWS are still so uncommon here.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

That is scary!

@mikebuffing727

Жыл бұрын

The US is probably worse. Here we call it PTC or positive train control. It becomes news topic once theres an accident from speeding or collisions between trains.

my mother loves your channel, esp anything petrochemical related. you have brought such joy to our lives

@neuralmute

Жыл бұрын

I got my mum hooked on PD too! She's partial to the nuclear accidents, but really, whose mum isn't? (Other than yours of course!)

@bryanharris5034

Жыл бұрын

@@neuralmute haha nice. My mother worked in the oil industry as an industrial chemist for decades and said they always got reports on other sites accidents and lessons from losses reports and they were all read by everyone in the lab as soon as they came in

As always, another great video. Thank you for making such entertaining yet educational and enlightening content!

Thank you for another great breakdown Plainly, and thank you for supporting those with OCD.

Sad to see how many times workers are blamed for following the processes the company puts in place

Thanks, John!! Always look forward to your work. And the weekly weather report.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

Been watching for some time now. You never disappoint. Also your soundtracks are brilliant! Just thought I'd throw you a thank you.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words

It's almost as though this part of the South Eastern Mainline is cursed somehow. Just a short distance away from this crash, just under 10 years after this crash, another severe accident occurred, this time at Hither Green. On the evening of the 5th November 1967, a 12 Carriage Class 201 DEMU (6S) unit 1007 and Class 202 (6L) 1017 derailed at roughly 70 MPH near Hither Green Maintenance Depot. The train was packed at the time of the accident, with many passengers standing. The momentum of the crash blocked both the Fast and Slow lines with Traction Current being switched off to aid the rescue effort. In the end, 49 people died and 78 people were injured. The cause of the crash was a rail that had failed due to metal fatigue in one of the bolts at the point where two rails were bolted together (unlike today where they're welded)

@highdownmartin

Жыл бұрын

Welds can still break and rails can disintegrate, see Hatfield!

@SiVlog1989

Жыл бұрын

​@highdownmartin true, but since Hatfield, there has been a greater emphasis on safety, rather than balancing the books at the risk of safety

@highdownmartin

Жыл бұрын

@@SiVlog1989 been a sharp decline in safety since privatisation which would never have been tolerated underBR. Things are improving but loss of experience takes decades to recover from. Subcontractors are lethal in the railway environment

@SiVlog1989

Жыл бұрын

@@highdownmartin I agree, it just goes to show that rail privatisation, however much apologists try to defend it, was a mistake. Although Network Rail isn't perfect, they take maintenance of the railway more seriously than Railtrack or any private company ever did

@carlteacherman194

Жыл бұрын

I was at Grove Park (the next station to Hither Green) when this happened. We were waiting for a train to go back to Waterloo. We heard it all unfold.

Great Western (and then Western Region) engines not only drove on the right hand side of the cab, but for many years had used all over its system a mechanical ramp and shoe with battery operated cab warning bell plus the ability to stop a train automatically (unless cancelled by the crew). Inspecting officers had for years recommended this system or something like the one on the LTS Tilbury Line to Southend.

@andrewtaylor5984

Жыл бұрын

After just about every railway accident where a driver overran signals, the Inspecting Officer urged the railway companies to follow the Great Western and equip at least the main lines with Automatic Train Control (ATC). They were reluctant to do this, not because of the cost, but because they were afraid that drivers might become too complacent, by listening to the bell, rather than observing the signal. Finally, after the Harrow crash of 1952, BR went ahead to install ATC on main lines. It is now called Automatic Warning System (AWS). Harrow and Lewisham would then never have happened, nor would the early postwar derailments at Bourne End and Goswick, not to mention countless driver errors before that. Unfortunately, ATC would not have prevented the Quintinshill disaster, as that was signalmen's error.

Have you ever considered making a video on the 1962 train crash in Harmelen? It's the worst crash in dutch history and lead to the introduction of automatic train protections, as in this crash yellow signals were also missed, likely due to the fog but we'll never really know as no driver survived

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the suggestion

Thank you for uploading this video, I have lived near Lewisham all my life and often go right past st Johns, yet I have NEVER heard about this train crash before today. So thank you for enlightening me :)

From what I can remember from other sources, the driver and fireman of the steam service had a long wait in the open and cold before their train arrived and when it did the crew they took over from said that they hadn't taken water as they were delayed. It's thought that the cold may of slowed driver Trues' reactions as he would of been quite chilled and the low tender water level would of been playing on his mind as he had to work out where and when he could take more water without delaying his service much more.

@carlteacherman194

Жыл бұрын

I have read, I think in the book by Peter Tatlow, Oakwood Press (St John's Lewisham 50 years on...) that Driver Trew had already requested water at Sevenoaks. He may well have been in hurry to get there.

As always, thank you very much John! 👍

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

Hey Plainly Difficult, I really like your videos, and I was wondering if you make a video about the Cajon Pass runaways? They're a string of wrecks in southern California and they're super interesting.

The amount of quality content you produce just to put out under creative commons is so cool. Grateful for creators like you

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate that! Thank you

I suspect a contributing factor was that the Ramsgate crew were kept waiting for over an hour at the end of the platform in freezing conditions. Research today has shown that prolongued exposure to cold like this reduces mental awareness, so it is quite possible that Trew lost his situational awareness in the fog. It is always too easy to "blame the driver / signalman" in this situation, without looking at the broader situational background.

FANTASTIC VIDEO! Awesome job thank you

Thanks John your content and narration is very interesting 👍

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Glad you think so!

Just in time again, Thank you John!

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Enjoy!

Love that drum and bass vibe in your song at the end.

3 of my relatives should have been on the train bound for Hither Green but my Grandmother missed it, even though it was late, my Aunt, Heavily pregnant with my cousin, got off the crowded train at St Johns, sat down for a moment and heard the crash, my Uncle got off work early, because of the fog, and just managed to catch the preceding train. They were all very lucky!

Hooray! I've been up for 21 hours so I get to watch it when it drops!

I always found St John's station to have an eerie vibe. Now I know why

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Lots of lost souls

@borderlands6606

Жыл бұрын

There is a ghost story associated with the disaster. A railway bridge inspector who had been working on St John's flyover, was waiting for a bus at 2am near the clock tower. He heard someone calling for help, as they appeared to be trapped. He telephoned the police, and a patrol car arrived. The patrolman heard the voice, but was unperturbed. He said no one is trapped there, and people often hear voices. They have done so since the 1957 crash.

I really enjoy your videos. Although I'm not sure if "enjoy" is the right word considering the darkness of the subject matter. I find them super interesting to say the least. Specifically I like that you don't just read off a script and call it a day as some other youtubers. I can tell from the effort put into editing and research that you really care about the quality of your uploads. I can tell you care about the topic overall, a great deal. I just wanted to say, I appreciate your work.

You have re-invented your channel and it is awesome! But I miss the update on your current weather though. Edit: Aah you included it, wonder how I missed it. As it stands, everything is perfect!

One of the electric units that was in this crash would be repaired but would be in the Cannon Street rail crash in 1991

Back then with steam trains, the vast majority of homes using coal to heat them & the Clean Air Act barely 18 month's old, fog was made worse & often turned into smog. It should be noted that BR was desperately short of money, it was having to pay compensation to the shareholders of the big 4 due to nationalisation, government were paying war debts & limiting borrowing. Then there was the temporary measure to build steam shutting locomotives as a stop gap before realising they had to switch to diesel; meaning that money was wasted. Add to that a fall in goods traffic & parcel service that was shifting toward road transport. This meant that upgrades to signals & train protection wasn't given the priority it needed as the vast majority of the budget was needed just to keep trains running.

@highdownmartin

Жыл бұрын

The southern resisted aws as it was constantly running on one and two yellows. When I did some of my driver training on the strood paddock wood branch in /1990 there was still no aws! Coming from the central section that was too weird

I’d love a Plainly video on railway signalling (both national & International )

When describing signals controlled from a Westinghouse pattern lever frame, the more typical way is to say "Left" and "Right" in place of L and R as it theoretically describes the lever motion from the point of view of the signaler.

Love your narration and story telling. Keep up the incredible work! Love from Aus! #PDto1Million

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Thank you that’s really kind

@MTB_Beth

Жыл бұрын

@@PlainlyDifficult you're so welcome John! Thanks for brightening my day! All the best to you and your family!

Sad event, great explanation. John is groovy.

I remember my late Father telling me who was within the Civil Engineering side of the Railway the challenge of cutting the collapsed bridge up and how the rails being cut were like tensioned piano wires.

That "Temporary" bridge put up after the crash, is still there and in use today. I worked trains in that area (Guard & Driver) for25 years.

You are a skilled narrator, mad skill.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

It's interesting to see the number of times that the driver or other crew members are being blamed and put on trial. Yet the companies and organisations, whose poor planning led to such a bad design, get off scot free with little or no scrutiny.

Very interesting, and a clear and informative video. Do you think you could take a look at the Hither Green Accident, which took place 10 years later than Lewisham, and a mile and a half further south. Great videos, with excellent, very professional production standards. Really very impressed. Man Thanks, Zac.

Hell yeah St Johns baby! That's my beloved local station. Actually not so beloved, it could so easily be improved in terms of access... But you know, local pride and all. Also great for Deptford if you're on a the wrong train line, and Brookmill Park and other local parks are delightful.

At least you `ve got a Station, aa Junction and a Box named after you! Never heard of this one, greetings from an earlier Sunny t W London!

Great timing!!!🎉

Nice to here something with some jungling vibes from you

This is really interesting, my Girlfriend used to close to lewisham and she worked at Covent Garden. So I do believe I've been through St. Johns at least a few times.

You should do the 2012 once station disaster in buenos aires argentina, a passenger train failed to stop at a terminal station and crashed, 51 deaths and 703 injured

Kool tune at the end 😊

I couldn’t help but think of the Great Smog of December 1952. If the Clean Air Act in the UK didn’t get passed until 1957, this incident would have happened in basically the same “normal” conditions (not the 5-day event that sickened and killed thousands) as 1952. And I would think that fog/smog would not only make seeing the signals difficult, it would make the colors hard to distinguish. I know that you said the signals are positional as well as colored, but if you can’t see the back plate clearly, how do you know the position? I realize that as someone from the US, historically we’re not ones to talk since our own Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) wasn’t established until 1970, but I was a young child when that happened and was part of the generation taught to think about energy conservation and not polluting in school. The fact that the engineer didn’t have his fireman watching the signals out the right hand side, where his perspective and sight line was reduced, is infuriating.and 90 people paid with their lives. Like I said, I remember what smog really looked like and how it distorted things like color perception.

"You want to go for a ride in a Spitfire?" "Oh my gosh! Yes!" 5:06 T.T

@MarvinHartmann452

Жыл бұрын

I sure would want to go

A dreadful disaster ,thankfully the third train managed to stop in time , and since the accident the site is known to be haunted by the cries of the injured still being heard and numerous reports of the Police being called to investigate the spectral sounds coming from the vicinity of the crash.

Just a 110k to go. Seems like just yesterday on another account when I wrote a similar comment on getting to 10k. One of few who listened to us and stayed the same. 👍

Ahh you should collab with Jago on another train disaster! It would be amazing :)

Interesting. I used to live in Crayford and work in Central London. I don't think I've ever been on a train that stopped at St Johns.

@carlteacherman194

Жыл бұрын

Yes, me too going to Grove Park, "Calling at all stations except St. Johns".

It sounds like everything else aside, it would have been fine if the signals were on the driver side instead of being passenger side for some reason

Great video

I do not know what the lights in those signals are like today but i can say modern signals pierce fog like butter. You may not be able to see anything out the cab but you can always see the signals. I am sort of a specialist in driving on dark, foggy, and wet track with the wheel slip alarm screaming.

@mikebradley4096

Жыл бұрын

But London smog was another level from the thickest fog you have ever known. It was full of black smoke particles, not just water droplets, so attenuated light very much more severely. The fireman saw the last signal so the others would have been visible from his side of the cab. But the smog would have also made the driver's window dirty, making it even harder to see the signal on the opposite side of the track from the long distance before the smokebox of the loco obscured the view. Easy with hindsight to say that he should have recognised the limitations of visibility and instructed the fireman to look out, but Trew made a mistake on a system that did not forgive mistakes. Which of us has never made a mistake? That's why we need more than one level of safety integrity on life-critical operations.

@johnmcmullan8472

10 күн бұрын

@@mikebradley4096 In the same vein, not re. this train crash but the fogs of the 1950's. For those that know Glasgow, my father left Rutherglen in the south east of the city one very foggy night at 8pm to travel to his work on the night shift at Hillington on the western suburbs of the city. After various adventures with trains, trams and the Glasgow Subway came back home at 1a.m having walked back home from Cambuslang on the Lanarkshire side! Many people including Londoners I'm sure could tell you tales of how bad the fog was then, cos it wasn't fog, it was smog- a very different beast.

St. John's was where we used to get off, to go to my aunt's home, up towards Hilly Fields.

Another train into bridge disaster just like my local Granville train disaster here in Sydney. John... I need you to do Granville soon, please.

@mikebradley4096

Жыл бұрын

Also with Eschede . . . .

In the late 1970s I rode a Chicago (USA) commuter line daily into and out of the downtown terminal when I worked at Children's Memorial Hospital. Year's before, the railroad had installed signal repeaters in the cab of each locomotive. I suspect this is the type of system being installed on British Rail at the time of the accident. My question is, why we're the line signals located on the Fireman's side of the locomotive?

@ErickC

Жыл бұрын

Maybe they forgot which Hastings they were actually in and thought they were working on the Soo Line. :D

@filanfyretracker

Жыл бұрын

do you mean that thing that made a bunch of beeping? I remember that on Metro North in NY area if you sat near the cab something made a bunch of beeping when you passed certain areas of track.

@jerry2357

Жыл бұрын

British locomotives vary, some have the driver's position on the left, and others on the right. Usually, the signals are on the left of the line, so in this respect it's better if the driver sits on the left (as on, for instance, 60103 Flying Scotsman). But historic tradition meant that some locos were built with the driver on the right. For many locos, you can tell which is the driver's side by looking for the long lever that connects the reverser in the cab to the valve gear: this is on the driver's side of the locomotive. (Obviously this doesn't work on locos with steam-operated reversing gear, but these weren't very common on Britain's railways.) Southern Region was later than other regions in introducing AWS, which would have made this crash much less likely. AWS sounds a horn when passing a signal showing a caution or stop aspect (red, yellow or double yellow), and the driver has to press a button to cancel the horn, when a visual indicator in the cab then changes to black and yellow stripes. But there is an issue with this system when one train is travelling fairly closely behind another, so it gets a series of double yellow signals (this is quite common in suburban areas with a frequent train service). Repeated cancelling of the horn can become automatic, so it's possible that the driver doesn't notice when the train passes a single yellow after a succession of double yellows, and thus doesn't slow down in time to stop.

@Plainly Difficult Would you be willing to do a video on the Wallan XPT derailment? It was quite a mess. It's in Victoria, in AU. The XPT set derailed, due to believing the points were set for the main line. But they were actually set for the crossing loop.

At this same station, two trains collided in a thick fog in March 1898 as well.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

Luckily hopefully it is a thing of the past

Lots of very interesting comments here from first hand accounts. My two pennorth, I grew up near hither Green was born five years after this happened, did 30 years as a driver and know about steam. I read an autobiography of a fireman who was on 66 spitfire only a couple of weeks previous. He was conducting another driver over the reading redhill road with 66 as the other driver didn’t sign it( Sunday engineering works or something) it was dark, and the train driver told our man who as the conductor driver, was driving ; to watch it as 66 was such a goodun she’d be running noticeably better than any other bullied at any point. The author found this to be true. For a given cut off and regulator this was a lot better than most of the rest. Forward to dvr trew driving, he’d been waiting on freezing fog at the end of the platform for his train to come in, he’d be cold and wet. The loco is a bit faster and quieter than you’d notice and it’s my guess and this fireman’s guess that he missed the single yellow because he was disoriented in the fog and the engine had covered more ground. So straining to catch the single yellow he actually comes up against the red at St. John’s. No aws, so fkn easy to do.

I miss the radioactive stuff. Not that I hate trains - I love them. But your best work involves stuff that glows unnaturally.

@hauntedshadowslegacy2826

Жыл бұрын

Same. There's only so many instances of spoopy rocks getting out of hand, tho.

@theairstig9164

Жыл бұрын

In my dissenting opinion this is classic PD. Bridge collapses and dodgy mall construction have heritage with PD specifically because there are only so many goofy nuclear technicians alive in the world

@princessofthecape2078

Жыл бұрын

@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Has he ever covered any of the broken-arrow incidents? Lord knows there were enough of them - the big one in Spain that contaminated a huge area comes to mind.

Definitely a bad day. Thanks John.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

I agree

Very Windy! Also, how did I miss this video before now?

Don’t understand why in reduced visibility that the driver would assume all lights were green… or even ask the fireman if he sees the lights…

So I just finished the video and I am left wondering why didn’t the driver ask the fireman to keep an eye on the signals all along, especially given his location in the cab?

@ethribin4188

Жыл бұрын

Propably a mix of habbit and tiredness. The driver propably expexted the fireman to be watching. Or he though he himself would see. Or, most likely, he was used to the signals in that area always being green.

@nlwilson4892

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps a touch of arrogance, thinking he was superior and didn't need help from a junior.

@dkbmaestrorules

Жыл бұрын

Actually it was neither of those reasons. The driver had asked the fireman to read the signals for the previous part of the journey, which he did. However, the signals that were missed were located on the right-hand side of a left-hand curve and so were normally visible to the driver, even in poor visibility. The fireman stopped looking out at that point because the signals were normally visible and because he needed to build up his fire for the gradients on the journey.

@hauntedshadowslegacy2826

Жыл бұрын

What bothers me is that the signals are on the side opposite to the driver. Like, why? That's just begging for trouble.

@mikebradley4096

Жыл бұрын

@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Not all engines have the driver's position on the same side!

Ayyy the intro musik is back!

its sad hearing about all these rail accidents which have helped the railway become as safe as it is now

Can't wait for the i95 video

That destroyed bridge looked like it was the scene of a blitz bombing.

So the fireman saw Lima 18 was at danger, but he didn't see the prior signals, correct? Otherwise I'd assume he'd be telling the engineer/engine driver what he saw. That must have been a very bad feeling when the fireman saw Lima 18, knowing his train would never stop in time.

I love the title on the thumbnail... the start of a Plainly Difficult joke XD

Hey do the 1987 Chase Maryland Collision and the dangers of being intoxicated on the job.

Lovely vidoeo! But I will ask for more industrial accidents, they are so important as there are still alot of cheapscape companies that do it all for the profit. MORE INDUSTRY RELATED CONTENT PLEASE MR JOHN!

St Johns. I call it the ghost station as very few trains actually stop there. I have spent more time stopped at a signal there than being stopped for passengers!! Have travelled this route a zillion times (it feels like it anyway) and like you until recently I had no idea there had been a major accident locally. As for the "temporary" bridge that is still there? The title explains a lot then as the trains always crawl through there. Cannot imagine them closing the line to put in a permanent one as the bottleneck there and lack of space around would make it almost impossible to do so without closing the line for a few weeks I would have thought, and as it is on the main artery into and out of London into Kent the ensuing travel chaos does not bear thinking about as the roads around there are overloaded as it is.

Oh wow, I know it’s been a few hours, but I still feel early!

I lived close and remember hearing the noise of the crash, my uncle was sent home by his boss because of the smog and got the earlier train.

Seems like a bit of a handicap to place the signals on the line where the driver can't easily see them.

@PlainlyDifficult

Жыл бұрын

I agree!

@LUAu101

Жыл бұрын

@@PlainlyDifficult From the report itself "It will be noted from the inset to Fig. 5 that there is plenty of room for the simple signal posts in the wide space between the Down and Up Through line, but none between the Down Through and the Up Local lines, and to have brought the signal aspects to the left of the Down Through would have required fairly elaborate cantilevered gantries. I understand that at the time of installation, when most of the engines were driven from the right hand side, the signals were sited as nearly as possible to the driver's or fireman's eye level in order to give the best view in the prevailing conditions where curvature and overbridges had to be taken into consideration."