What do you think Marshall is missing about the Right Side of the Brain? Or why do you agree with him?

@KiX-K4T13

4 жыл бұрын

I am watching it now. I will edit with an update. Thanks for another episode, Stan, Marshall, and the (kool krew kids 😉). Edit: Okay! Yes. I have this book, and though I bought it, read it, used it, after a 10 year hiatus of not drawing of doing art, I noticed there wasn't any drawing from imagination lessons, which left me bored. Completely bored. In fact, someone told me it was quintessential for artists, but I learned I could already draw with my eyes, by observation. I killed the lessons. That said, it's for beginners. My hiatus of drug abuse, finding myself (trans woman here), is a long story and I won't waste your time with the details, but it's good to know: 10 years did not kill my skill. They were still pretty good. (Taking breaks from art actually improves skill, because you have intent.)

@tessa2568

4 жыл бұрын

Oof, I was really feeling Marshall on this one. I wanted to make more imaginative work, but my first years of art education were based purely on observation. While I think it has served me well in the long run, I gave up on art for a long time until I came across constructive drawing. Rudy de Reyna's "How to Draw What You See" is a book that came out a few years before "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain", and it has more constructive techniques. It would be a good companion book for beginners who are starting with "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain".

@lady_nine

4 жыл бұрын

Stan What do you think smoking weed and drawing? after i started i look like or pop with or spinach

@DavidVallejoIllustrator

4 жыл бұрын

First of all, Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, as mentioned before, is a book for beginners, one that is written not necessarily for those wanting to become professional artists, but as a way of showing that drawing is an activity that anyone can learn. Like many how-to art books, it is written to encourage those how have a lot of anxiety about art and drawing. It coddles, and holds the hand of the would-be artist to encourage their creative spirit. I think it is one of many art references that can be helpful as one learns about drawing, but if one is serious, they must look to other sources to be a more informed artist. Secondly, one of my professors taught us how to draw the human figure from the imagination by first having us draw from observation. After of ton of repetition, we're talking hundreds of drawings, he would have us start class by drawing a figure from imagination. Thus, we learned the figure by taking in the information from the process of drawing, and then by just jumping in and doing it. Personally, I think the willingness to put in the time and do the repetition is what holds many artist back from developing the skills needed to become the artists that they want to be. Third, just an something I've noticed from many podcasters/vloggers/bloggers/"experts" (not necessarily you guys). Many experts refer to Nicolaides' The Natural Way to Draw, yet I don't really see them using the invaluable information in their work. They talk about how great a book it is, but again, I don't see it in their work. Maybe if they used the principles in their own work, their art would better capture the energy and empathy that could happen in a drawing. Just a thought. How do you guys use the information from the book, or do you? Obviously, it's not the gospel of art, but I was just thinking that because I have heard it referenced so much that surely you might have some thoughts on it.

@raruteam

4 жыл бұрын

When I read the book I learned many new things but I always had this question in the back of my head "How do I apply this when creating a drawing from imagination?" I thought she would teach that later or at least give a hint on it but it didn't happen so I can relate to Marshall's experience with the book, I felt it was interesting but it wasn't what I was looking for.

Stan: I dont get why people think drawing imaginative things is important. Also Stan: Draws fetus kangaroo.

@fluffy-hellhound

4 жыл бұрын

You never know what you have until it's gone.

@iamsosoart3294

4 жыл бұрын

We can Draw only want we have observed and Study in our Real life. that is what stan is trying to say. Study / Draw from life First than aim for Imaginative drawing. Stan Drawing Fetus Kangaroo Is 100 % Correct Example. to prove Stans Point Stan Failed to Draw Kangaroo because he never Studied or observed Kangaroo in his life with an intention to Draw thru imagination. . He is an Awesome artist But Still be Failed Due To lack of Kangaroo info in his Visual Library to reference it in his mind and Draw. So he Drew that Funny Thing. It made me Laugh Real Good and Still continues to make me laugh. Thanks For Everything / Podcast Proko and Marshall

@safir2241

2 жыл бұрын

@@iamsosoart3294 i can draw a kangaroo and ive NEVER drawn one from life or a picture

@the_Googie

2 жыл бұрын

@@safir2241 its not gonna be a very convincing kangaroo. Of course you can construct a kangaroo in your mind from looking at them, or using what you know (deer, sheep, horses) to supplement the gaps. But you won't make a convincing kangaroo from imagination without referencing its real anatomy. -Also, dont say stuff like that. It makes you look arrogant. Stay humble and overdeliver, and don't boast your skill, especially if theres no evidence for you being skilled. I am almost sure you are not capable of doing what you claim. Its an instant turn off- edit: striked out cause i was too rude

@safir2241

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_Googie yeah fair, i dont know what i was thinking. But like, many times when I doodle I remember things I just looked at in the day, not actually studied, and implement bits and pieces into it

Marshall, For me, the value of "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" has been to take me from a place of "I wish I could draw" to a place of "holy shit I can learn how to draw." A lot of other books/people/videos are super esoteric in the ways they talk about learning to draw. It's all practice, practice, practice, it'll eventually come to you. But DOTRSOTB codifies how to get into the right mindset in a reliable way, not relying on years of practice to eventually get there by accident. Some people probably do get there that way But, for me, it never really clicked until I was doing the exercises in the book. I finally 'get' how art is made. I think your problem with the book comes from a place where you already knew the things it was trying to teach you, so it seemed useless. You already had access to the right side of the brain, and knew how to see the world as an artist sees. That's all the book really does, pulls open the eyes of a complete beginner. It's not surprising you didn't find much value in it.

@maxi_mage

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I really needed to read this comment. I picked up the book this week and started worrying if I did the wrong thing. I am glad that it seems like I made the right choice (no pun intended).

@Clarevoyant_Witch

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxi_mage It helped me out a lot just starting out! It's a really wonderful book. I still recommend it to anyone who asks how to learn.

This is somehow funnier than a lot of comedy podcasts out there and it also delivers quality information. Keep it up!

I just wanted to say "Fun with a Pencil" fundamentally changed the way I think about drawing and helped me more than any other book I have ever read.

@lilypenelope2353

4 жыл бұрын

I'm trying to work my way through it now and it is delightful.

@vapsman88

4 жыл бұрын

I love that book! Still refer to it now and then.

@SubNorm4L

4 жыл бұрын

Creative Illustration by Loomis is also a great book.

@vapsman88

4 жыл бұрын

@@SubNorm4L Yes it's unsurpassed. My Grandmother gave me her first edition when I was young. I had to rebind it some years ago but its still in great condition.

@lilypenelope2353

4 жыл бұрын

@@SubNorm4L I have that one, I've been waiting to finish Fun with a Pencil before I start on it though.

I agree so much with Marshall. Many books and teachers cover drawing from observation. It was a big step for me to start drawing cubes in all perspectives and invent by using simple forms. Great episode, thank you.

"If that's all you can do,why not take a photograph? it's faster,you can trace it." what a quote

Marshal-Lawful Good Proko-Chaotic Neutral

I completely agree with Marshall on this one. I was in the exact same boat. I could copy something very well, even do true photo realism, but if you asked me to draw something out of my head I couldn't do a damn thing. I remember reading the book on drawing with the right side of my brain and being frustrated because once again it didn't tell me anything about how to draw without copying. All I could do was copy and try to find photos and stack them on a "pho" dynamic way. None of my (community college) teachers could or would help so I assumed I simply didn't have "it", whatever "it" is that allowed for such an ability. I gave up for years, got back into by first emailing a lot of top artists and asking them if it was possible to learn this. I was recommened the same books EVERYONE (virtually) learns from, Loomis, Hogarth, Bridgman, etc and eventually found Proko, Hale, and so forth. Now I get it and within 2 years I can draw the figure from my imagination, not terribly well, by very far beyond where I was. Most people think I'm great, though I'm not, simply because so few go beyond the look and see method. I keep pushing like the old masters, and I will get there, probably sooner than later because now I know what to learn, how to learn. Thanks for this ep!

@arihaviv8510

11 ай бұрын

But those are not the books that are used by art teachers in universities... they're all pushing "right side" and many people who aren't self learners are led to believe that they just won't get it

@null6406

8 ай бұрын

Its faux

@MFDOOOOM

5 ай бұрын

"Now I get it " But how ? How did you finally manage to get it ?

I had an art class that was purely based upon Drawing On the Right Side of the Brain and I have to share some of Marshall’s sentiments. Most of the class was specifically teaching me how to be able to look at something and being able to recreate it down to a T from a 2D perspective instead of building a figure or object with shapes out of imagination. The only thing I got out of it was being able to accurately see something as it appears in real life and measure it.

@driftwood4367

4 жыл бұрын

Just for clarity, “2D Perspective” was more like I was just drawing lines on top of shapes like it was a flat image being recreated, not thinking about the form of something

@jeffshepherd927

4 жыл бұрын

I had the exact same experience with a recent drawing class.

@tiagodagostini

4 жыл бұрын

But accurately seeing is important to learn from the world

@BCfightan

4 жыл бұрын

Drift Wood but that’s the entire point of the book isn’t it? She specifically says in the beginning that the book is about learning to see, and that’s what she tries to teach. It doesn’t market itself as anything else so idk why anyone would expect anything more

@itsisha9762

2 жыл бұрын

Observation skills: the greatest thing you can possibly hone in as an artist

From being a fan boy over talented people. I conclude that *Kim Jung Gi* uses *Left brain* to make his art look *convincing* while His *Right brain* is used to make the piece *interesting*

@pictoart2282

4 жыл бұрын

make sense! he use left brain which is logic and right side to cheat and making visual detail

Marshall, please, please elaborate about how you learned to draw imaginatively. What exercises helped you acquire that skill? I can copy Stan's drawings faithfully but I can't draw those same figures from another point of view or in an imaginative pose without a reference. Why is that? What am I missing? Can you name it? You'd think that 30+ years as a technical illustrator would have given me an edge, but not really. Drawing a pose using balls, blocks and cylinders only gets me balls, blocks and cylinders. I, too, would like to know how the golden-age animators were able to draw their assigned characters from their imaginations in every conceivable pose and from any point of view. For me, it seems like a magic trick that remains a well-kept secret. I'm very close to giving up altogether in utter frustration and despair, selling off my extensive art library and focusing on tutoring math.

@KellySmith555

4 жыл бұрын

Oh My ACTUAL GOD! This is me. I have searched for 10 years how to draw from imagination and can't draw anything beyond chibbi characters. I've been where you are, ready to give it all up. NOBODY F***ING TALKS ABOUT THIS! I can't stand it anymore. I thought this podcast would enlighten me, but after 40+ minutes I learned NOTHING.

@claudiavilleneuve7936

4 жыл бұрын

Being an animation student, maybe I can help on the behind the scene. They did a lot of study sketches. They would hire zoologists to bring the animals to their studio. For Bambi, they brought in a fawn and made it available to study anytime. In short, they burned the forms and pattern in their heads. They would study how it moved and how the bones abd muscles acted, they would observe it just being itself and film it. These guys mostly did crazy hours of just sketching their subjects from life. Sometimes, they made tiny sculptures of the characters to move around and observe from any angle they needed. As Stan said, you build a librairy in your head of how it's supposed to move feel and look. To look at the general shapes but translating them in 3d to make cubes and cylinders. So, yeah hope it may help a bit. Edit: The animator's survival kit may enlighten you on the process a bit.

@klavassassini

4 жыл бұрын

@@KellySmith555 I think Volen CK gives a bit of enlightenment on drawing from imagination. In one of his videos, he says you unlock drawing from imagination through internalized perspective. I recommend his channel.

@dusk1234567890

4 жыл бұрын

The excises is just drawing and your memories. There’s no trick. You draw something, you draw it once or a number of times till it’s second nature and that’s it. Anytime you draw something new, you use a reference and restart the whole process again.

@puppeli

4 жыл бұрын

@@dusk1234567890 i think it would be more efficient, if you also mix it up with trying to draw your reference from a different angle (like Kim Jung Gi does). And trying out Jason Brubaker's "cognitive drawing" method (he has a video here on youtube, where he explains it better than i ever could).

Ultimately, whatever resource someone can use to help them become better at sketching, drawing, animating, painting, sculpting, etc etc etc, is a good resource. Drawing on the right side of the brain has some parts that helped me and some that didn’t, but I would never shit on a book and call it trash unless it made zero attempt to teach. Drawing on the Right side of the Brain does make an attempt to teach and has helped millions of people further their enjoyment of art, so something in the book is reaching people and no one should tell people it’s garbage just because they couldn’t find value… criticize it for its shortcomings, but not out of pettiness,

Marshall had my same experience when I finished drawing on the right side of the brain "ok I can draw fairly well the things I see, but I can't do anything from imagination, and I don't know how to start".

@jrg7951

4 жыл бұрын

I swapped hands and tried drawing with my left hand and I could easily conceive of characters and the forms even looked better. However i am still right hand dominant and i have not figured out how to utilize this new experience?

@astrol4b

4 жыл бұрын

@@jrg7951 well using the left hand connects directly with the right emisphere, but I know this is bro science, you know what? Trying is free, so I'll experiment with this.

I found DRAWING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BRAIN a very useful tool to help me understand what "observation" and "looking" is to an artist, as opposed to simply gazing at the world around me as non-artists do, that is, to survey my environment to function within it. My drawing from imagination was greatly improved by studying George Bridgeman's CONSTRUCTIVE ANATOMY, (as well as looking at books that showed how to build the body from shapes: ovals, cylinders, etc.). When I finally started life drawing classes and drew many, many figures daily--particularly one-minute gesture drawings--my facility with drawing from imagination AND from observation benefited from it. Drawing from observation and drawing from imagination are two very different types of drawing and are used for different reasons, but they do complement and buttress each other.

“Don’t critique people if they don’t ask for it” , thank you.

@deddrz2549

Жыл бұрын

Tru, but I also think some people avoid criticism and it really stunts their improvement. As well if you are presenting your art to the world in places such as online, you will always get criticism even if unasked for, and it's usually better to see what value you can get out of it rather than being mad cuz you never asked their opinion

Season 2 will begin on April 7 and on it’s own KZread channel… Be sure to subscribe! kzread.info/dron/fvIqreCk628yB9mp3e_ABQ.html

Awesome podcast! Marshal: When I was a kid I only drew imaginitive stuff, that's what most kids does I think. So when I discovered betty Edwards, all of the sudden I could also draw stuff from the real world. I loved it. Since I already had the imagination drawing going on, I just combined the two skill set, without ever giving it thought. I think Betty teaches some great methods, and I just really wonder why you expected more from that book...? But anyway, it is great to hear other angles and opinions;)

I look forward to these every week. Marshal and Stan work so well off each other Amazing job, guys!

You guys are killing it with these podcasts 🙌 ❤️ please keep them coming!

I found myself in the same situation as Marshall, I was taught to meticulously copy from life, measure everything, use perspective, etc., and I too found myself totally enslaved to references. (that's why I started searching the web and came to Proko) My professor of graphic design advised us to read that book but, at that time, it existed only in the English edition and I did not speak or read it (it was not taught in my school, I started out self-taught), so I never bought it. But now I understand why, once, while I was discussing on Facebook with a boy about the fundamentals of drawing, an established illustrator for children meddled and said "No! Studying perspective is useless! I've never studied it!" Having always given a lot of importance to geometric construction, I was very disappointed. Now I understand! XD

You guys compliment each other so well. Ive rewatched all your episodes and I learn something new Everytime and sometime I just watch to laugh lol. Best art podcast out there. Love you guys ❤️🙏. Thanks for your lessons.

Proko's face when the voicemail casually dropped in mindlessly shading. Wheezing.

I just wish these podcasts were twice as long. You guys are the best.

You guys ARE a very balanced pair and both of you are very wise indeed! Love your podcast!

I love to listen to you two while I practice my drawing🖤✌️it cheers me up

I love getting these podcasts every week! 💙💙💙

That was a great discussion. And I can see what Marshall is saying that he could only draw from a "flat image", even if he had a model in front of him. He wasn't working the form in his head, he was just thinking of 2D shapes. It's a useful skill, and you can get great results just with that...if you have great references to start with.

A lot of artists copy, maybe in their own style, photos of famous people and sell them and get a lot of admiration from people because "oh it just looks like the photo"....I have always wanted to be able to draw like comic artists because they can draw what ever they want AND tell a story...... Great show ❤️

All I know is that 2 yrs of HS art & I couldn't draw worth diddly. Worked through Betty Edwards' book as an oldster (it sat on the shelf for 20 years) & I started to draw decently (family & friends are "amazed"). It was a starting off point. I need to be able to draw as a preliminary for my watercolors. I worked through a bunch of other books, too, all the Proko series & tons of internet classes (Bluprint). I don't want to draw comics so I'm happy with my drawing skills, of course I'm still evolving and open to new techniques.

This is a topic on the forefront of my mind right now. Marshall's story really resonated with me. Drawing on the Right Side was a very important book for me when I was in high school. It fundamentally changed the way I thought about drawing and instantly improved the quality of my finished drawings by a large degree. But It was a way of thinking that overpowered my mind while drawing for more than a decade and crippled my ability to draw from imagination. I think it is an important philosophy to understand and that it might be good to solely focus on until you can do it without thinking. But it cannot be the only philosophy to adhere to and I certainly did for a long time. It hasn't been until recently, after a lot of retraining and study of perspective, anatomy, and breaking down figures into simple 3D shapes that I feel like I'm beginning to feel progress in drawing people from imagination. This has taught me that I need to take ALL of these things into account to achieve the level of mastery I'm looking for. And that there many other principles I still need to master and take into account while drawing- such as gesture, composition, and color theory to name a few.

This episode got me to buy Marshall's whiteboard lecture and I have to say, it is super helpful! Best $4 I've ever spent. Thank you so much for this podcast, guys; it's really helping me find all the resources I need to be a better artist.

Love these podcasts.. Thanks for putting them on!

I just want to say that listening this podcast while drawing is the best thing in the world :D

Thoughts are powerful than anything existing in the reality. BIG thumbs up for my favourite show.

omg thank you for your book recommendation Marshall!! It sounds so good and is exactly what i'd like to read next. I'm currently reading "The anatomy of Story" so I'm intrigued to see how they relate and contrast. Also thanks for your thang too Proko because I was wondering about those pencil. Can't wait to try em out sometime.

Great information. Thank you both. Really like the relaxed and humorous delivery too. 😁👍

I'm a comic book artist [I've worked in the industry sense 1992]; I'm both a penciler & an inker for comic books. We who draw comix learned from drawing the dynamic figures and dynamic perspective seen in comix panels mostly; and then later on, in high school or usually in college, learning drawing rules from life drawing & nature drawing. Drawing from imagination is developed from simply combining different animals, etc in a creation. Animators learn usually as young kids from comic books and also things like coloring books... then sprinkle in life drawing in college time, but they always are trying to improve their shape-ology skills. I think a lot more emphasis from teachers should be with teaching shape-ology skills even in life drawing classes.

A talented drawing artist once recommanded to me Betty's book to improve my drawing skills. I was in my early twenties then. I wasn't convinced much about her method. Because I thought that the work shown in the book lacked personnality and caracter, so I put the book aside. Then my skills never improved much over a long period of time. Twenty years later and many boring day jobs later, I'm still wondering wether it was a good idea to dismiss the book. But with this lecture I know that what I needed was a fundamentals book not a right vs left approach. Sketching And Rendering In Pencil by A. Guptil is a good book for beginners. And never underestimate simple shapes drawing!

@scarlet8078

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. Guptill's book should be recommended more! I think it will eventually see a resurgence. It's also free on archive .org site. You should also try out Andrew Loomis's books, depending on your level. The simplest is Fun with a Pencil, then Figure Drawing & then Creative Illustration which I find useful for any skill level

Love the podcasts..yes you both together are like yin and yangs.. .marshal thank you for wearing your shoes😏 Can’t wait for next week

I love the truth in the polarities part of the talk. Way to go, Marshall

My favorite book which I constantly go back and read is Practice and Science of Drawing by Harold Speed. It's very philosophical and sophisticated that I can hardly call it a drawing book. It's like a Gombrich level art book and has some great insights on why drawing with both side of the brain is the way to achieve good art. It makes me feel like i'm 'reading' a good drawing.

Thanks for the podcast guys, I think you've got a great dynamic going between the two perspectives you offer. I think something you might consider about learning is how our natural dispositions really affect what best works. What I get from the things Marshall says is that he likes to have mapped out some broad scope of a field or area of stuff whether he's competent at it or starting out. Personally this is how I function (admittedly to an almost crippling degree sometimes) I absorb all kinds of information and map out a working big picture that'll help me start building a foundation for learning. Some people do much better by starting narrowly, intensely focused on a subset before really delving into the larger web of connections. At the end of the day if holding the broad view is too distracting or if narrowing down is too inefficient for your specific needs then turn to what most benefits you. For drawing on the right side of the brain and its lack of balance, that might be a very useful lens to look at drawing through for some people and a very frustrating approach for others.

I feel for Marshall here! I drew from imagination until I went to high school (and university) and I read that book and focused really heavily on reference and avoided symbols as much as possible, but I draw manga and symbols are a major part of the whole visual language so I have to relearn so much stuff about drawing from imagination. I get that in order to draw realism, you need to get the symbols out of your head, but if you are a comic artist you need to know what symbols effectively communicate whatever you're drawing. I felt Loomis' explanation of eye level and perspective in his Creative Illustration book was the best explanation I read about creating images from memory. Everything has an eye level, decide where it is, draw a block to represent the human, and use your memories to fill in the piece. (why are Loomis' books so good? They're gold mines)

I initially learned on the east coast where I found a lot of disdain against “mere illustrators” vs fine artists at a time in my life when I wanted more of the “west coast” animator / comic artist / imagination / anatomy instruction.

A point I'd like to add to the polarity of creating forms from imagination and drawing from observation is what I think is very important, and that is, knowing the reason why a certain thing is, the way it is. For example, one can draw an egg from imagination and place chiaroscuro on it but may not know why one place the chiaroscuro in a certain direction other than simply being shown that shade on form reacts in a certain way, or one can draw what's in front of them exactly, but if you don't know the reason why an eye looks the way it does or why a colour looks the way it does or what happens when a colour interacts with another colour in the "aspect of the moment". You are not, in my opinion, intelligibly learning and constructing what you place on paper. Also to add, G. A. Storey said in his book " The Theory And Practice of Perspective", " It is much easier to understand and remember a thing when a reason is given for it, than when we are merely shown how to do it without being told why it is so done". Our eyes are not perfect so just looking at stuff is not enough, also being shown and told how to do things without knowing the reason why it is, is also not enough, as we will always return to our masters when we are in trouble when a similar problem arises. Reality isn't perfect, so is our eyes, edges of objects may at one moment may be hard and in another soft simply due to vibrations in the air or one person may see something at a distance very clearly while I "being short-sighted" may see things blurry or, one of my favorites, (I've forgotten the master's name, forgive me) but when being asked why a building was in shadow when there was seemingly no cause for it, he simply said, a " cloud was passing by". But this just shows, that by simply knowing the reason of things, you no are longer bounded to your master, reality, or what you think you may see. This is one of the things alot of art instruction books doesn't understand, leaves out or the author just doesn't know himself.

Side note: I took some art classes from Kimon's son, Gifford Nicolaides at San Diego City College in the late 70's. He was a great teacher.

@canobenitez

4 жыл бұрын

TELL US MORE!

@captaincaption

2 жыл бұрын

Agree with Nicanor, tell us more John!!

big up to Marshall for its critical stance on drawing on the right side of the brain i think i wouldn't have gotten into drawing at all if i couldn't 'build' forms from invention but I agree I AM biased for being very bad at measuring 2d planes as opposed to 'feeling' 3d forms

I love your podcast! This reminds me of the difference between myself and my brother. We both can draw / paint, but he has to have a picture and can only replicate exactly down to the most minute detail what is on that picture. it's astounding the level of detail he can capture. I can sketch from imagination, though, and use forms to do so when doing thumbnails and finding the 'idea' of what I want to create. I can also take several references and use them in combination, so I'm not exactly copying anything, but coming up with something more than any one of those references. I do think that Drawing on the Right Side of the brain is useful in that it frees people from the idea of using symbols when drawing, but one can't really stop there.

I remember when Proko was a shy guy. Now he's cool, funny and talented guy. Love the videos!

@majesticpanda445

4 жыл бұрын

Haha sorry you accidentally said Proko was funny

@TheSCPStudio

4 жыл бұрын

@@majesticpanda445 imagine bashing a subjective quality on a video about a subjective skill.

you can feel proko seething in this one

Great episode, thanks! Question: Which books and drills would you recommend to learn to draw from memory and imagination?

@moiseschavez7454

4 жыл бұрын

Maestro Pereznieto, que sorpresa encontrarle aqui! Un abrazo y,, como sugerencia personal en el tema, analizar y estudiar a Kim Jung Gi, los elementos que usa y su metodologia (hay una entrevista que le hizo Stann en este canal)

As a beginner Betty Edwards and Michael Hampton helped me a lot on both observations and imagination drawings and I thank you to review this book, and I will probably check the links to the other books that you recommend

I just like to watch the chemistry between you two but I do learn a lot from you guys.

Marshall's experience is so counter to my own. I only drew from imagination until I was 27. Now looking back, I didn't know that I had done the hard part first. Once I started using references noticed immediate improvement from someone who could kind of doodle, to maybe an actual artist.

@egusisoup1826

5 ай бұрын

You know what's interesting? The majority of my favorite sequential artists say the exact same thing. They spent most of their childhood drawing exclusively from imagination, so when they learned about reference studies it sent their work into the stratosphere. Not a very scientific way of determining its effectiveness, but there seems to be some merit to devoting a substantial time into trying your hand at imaginative drawing, even if poorly.

I love how you both allow disagreements in your discussions yet you still respect each opinion 😃

Such a fun and useful discussion! Thank you!

"Drawing on both sides of the brain" I see what you did there. :) Like Loomis, DOTRSOTB is a right of passage for many artists.

@melwinpaul321

4 жыл бұрын

It means Draw Out The Right Side Of The Brain

This is so good ❤❤❤ I love it so much ❤❤

Loved this convo! Im having a hard time lately and rather depressed over whats happened. I had a brain injury a couple years ago damaging basically my right hemisphere from the temporal lobe, to occipital. I have Hemi neglect and as a result, wiped out my visual spatial skills. Im trying to train the undamaged left hemisphere to pick up where the right can no longer.. Love your channel along with your pal Stephen bauman.

This is what I was waiting for

Great conversation. I learn a lot from these talks.

"Do you know about Drawing on the Right side of the Brain?" * Grits teeth *

damn that Divergent Thinking and Convergent Thinking really hits me!! Nice!! I used to make multiple design for character design then I choose or combine those designs...I hope that is related..

What are you talking about, Focker. Puff was a magic dragon from Honelee! - line from Meet The Fockers. Robert Deniro spoke that line. You guys are awesome! Also, Drawing From The Right Side Of the Brain, helped me learn to see my drawing from another angle. Very similar to an artist flipping the canvas horizontally or vertically. True it wont help you create from imagination, but when you are and you cant figure out why your drawing isn't looking right, it gives you another tool to solve complex questions.

Haven't read drawing on the right side of the brain so i can't contribute to that conversation, but i do have recs of artists who i think show in full how you can use both modes of thinking to make amazing art. Both chris hong art and myriam tillson are youtubers who show their process from idea to thumbnail through various iterations before arriving at the final piece. I think even just watching someone go through that whole process could help a lot.

I relate to Marshall's struggle with Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, it was kind of a relief to hear. It was used as a text book in my high school art class, so we were getting specific chapters in the middle rather then the whole. The teacher would only accept reference drawings for assignments her reasoning being - "You don't have to practice being creative, you guys already know how to be creative! That's why you should practice real life" Now that I'm older I'm frustrated I ever let those skills atrophy. I think what was far more important at that stage was encouraging students to enjoy the process as they add tools to their set, because if they stop drawing they'll never improve at all. I honestly believe this is why that school didn't produce many artists (me and other art kids moved in from elsewhere) I would guess that Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is more useful for an older crowd, or those that have a pretty set perspective on art as something impenetrable, rather then folks who where already drawing but still in need of training/building momentum. Curious to hear from those who did like the book, and whether they read it at an earlier or later stage?

This is so applicable for me right now. I want to illustrate stories I've written and so far, I've been drawing from observation mostly.

I think the technique Marshall was describing to diagram ideas is what is currently known as "Mind Mapping". Nowadays the whiteboard has been displaced by mind-mapping software, but there is still something about the physicality of a whiteboard that helps with creativity. Huh, another of those dichotomies...

@canobenitez

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know! I recently purchased a whiteboard and my speed doing storyboards has increased HUGELY. something about not worrying about mistakes and the ability to erase just with your fingertips... I recommend buying a large, mid, a small one!

That part about training with deliberate slow and fast movements is the base of why Chinese martial arts have a strong focus in practice at extremely slow speed.

Drawing on the right side of the brain messed me up because I felt if I messed up even a single angle, I've messed up the whole drawing. It wasnt until drawabox said "we don't try to copy our reference exactly" that things started to click for me.

This is so great

i love all your podcasts! Wish i found them earlier. :)

I live for Marshall 's singing introductions 🤣

I think the criticism of "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" "labotomizing drawing" is fair but it seems that criticizing the book because it didn't give you what you wanted/needed at a particular time is really unfair. That's not a statement about the book but of Marshall's expectations. Learning to draw and learning to draw from imagination are two completely different things, and the former must be mastered before the latter can really be attempted. Great insight either way. My experience as a young kid was that I didn't have access to formal lessons until my teens so that book, in particular, helped me to learn some basics on my own.

My edition of DotRSotB describes itself as "a course in creative confidence." For me, it was a gamechanger because it was just that. I'd always wanted to be an artist but somewhere along the lines got the idea that I just didn't have what it takes. So I pursued a bunch of other things and studied a completely unrelated field in college. When I started getting the itch in my mid-twenties to draw again, I found this book and went through every exercise. To me, the strength of the book is that she explains why people stop progressing in art as kids and then walks you step by step through that sometimes-decades-long obstacle. For the first time, I saw stuff coming out of my pencil that actually resembled life. I've since moved on to more complex and more imagination and construction-based artistic endeavors, but I'd say Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain gave me exactly what it said it would, and what I needed: confidence.

It's hard for me to imagine not being able to draw from imagination. I wasn't aware that it was such a big struggle for some people. I suppose it's like jazz improvisation. Some people can play notes on a page and swing and have a perfect sound and technique, but then get completely lost when it's time to ad lib.

i love these podcast videos.

Was listening while drawing. It was fun! Literally using both sides of my brain 🤣

Hey guys I met you at Lightbox it was an honor

Love this videos

This show is the best part of my day. Love ya Proko (no homo)

@Nunyabeeswax777

4 жыл бұрын

@@ishheredia9626 It was a joke. Try and have a sense of humor. And maybe I am gay, you don't know me.

@ishheredia9626

4 жыл бұрын

@@Nunyabeeswax777 mwwwwwah

I started with one of the older versions of the book. It helped kickstart my next stage of drawing skill from being stuck in a rut on a basic level to drawing more generally, better. If not for that, it may have taken far longer to catch on how to progress beyond that point. So the book helped. From there? There continues far more room for improvement. Looking forward to that.

Proko is the type of guy to wear a shirt with his name on it.

@TheLightFantasticArt

4 жыл бұрын

Robert Kinda like a name tag.

@beyondsilencedn

4 жыл бұрын

proko is his brand, not his name

@gregmcmill1798

4 жыл бұрын

@@beyondsilencedn Stan Prokopenko. It's his last name

I am so happy you guys made another podcast. I was concerned after the last cast you guys were mad at each other and I was concerned

Invention of things is definitely essential, and it’s quite hard to invent something you don’t know (completely). Our minds invent things from what we see, we only have a partial understanding of what we view. You can draw abstractions, you can draw exact reality replication. Do both, back and forth and you’ll have a great balance between them. The problem with drawing from reference: Reference can be a crutch if you want to stretch reality. As I heard Jeff Watts once say “don’t be a slave to your reference!” Otherwise a photo would be a much better representation of “reality”. The problem with drawing (representational work) without reference: it can look totally off, without purposely being “off”.

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall... Puff the Magic Dragon?! 🤔 Seriously though, thank you both for the informative and entertaining podcasts!!

It's a lot like playing an instrument. You can't play fast if you cant play it slow. And first you must learn it, then forget it, then let it flow from the heart... and muscle memory.

@27:05 even if the ability to observe and the ability to invent are interdependent, i think it CAN be a good thing to chop the ability to invent away as a complete beginner. direct observation was my key into the world of drawing, as a complete beginner, and Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain was my starting point for that. if i had to be worried about inventing or drawing from imagination, at that stage, i think i would have given up.

Thanks guys

i love you guys!

I love this show! I’m taking my first art class (drawing I) this semester at 35 🤣

Marshall's picture of the word clusters is what we'd use in database design to breakdown the relation of things in a particular business area. We called it bubble charting.

Daaaang the passive aggreshhh is so real Please dont break up guys lol

@timeforamazingchest5271

4 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure they're just messing around to be honest.

@thenaysays

3 жыл бұрын

@@timeforamazingchest5271 "remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down" - Adam Savage

I have my students do this exercise: Take a big glass and fill it with water and then pour it out again (in the sink). Do this a few times. Then Picture a glass of water in your mind, 2/3 full. Turn that image around in your mind and look at all sides, look down in, look at the bottom. Then mentally pour half the water out in a good size stream and freeze it in place. Notice how it hits the table. Notice the texture of the stream, the shape of water at the lip, the inside of the glass. Now take the entire glass and water and turn it around in 360 degrees. If you can do this, you can draw from imagination. This may take you multiple tries to get it down. Just try it once or twice a day and then rest so that your mind can incorporate the info.

Oh my gosh, how giddy Proko got just killed me. It’s just sent me back to when I used to gossip with my friends in high school and college 😂😂

I think artist need to be able to draw from imagination because there's not always a model available, or the money to pay a model that can pose for you so you can get the illustration you need. Or may be you don't have the equipment to get an air view and you need an air view so you can paint your idea. Then it is easier and faster and cheaper to just KNOW how to draw what you want to draw without seeing the real thing.

@TheSCPStudio

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but there are many, many ways to reference without a physical model. You can use a mannequin which is pretty portable. There are countless apps you can use to create custom poses with custom figures. There are even websites dedicated to giving you poses to reference.

@itsisha9762

2 жыл бұрын

but drawing what you already know is always going to be limited, and even for that you would need a reference of some sort. Training your eye this way is very very useful, even for illustrations, concept art or animation, artists almost always use a reference.

@arihaviv8510

11 ай бұрын

Imagination can be as simple as raising a finger or opening a mouth of a reference picture, because you understand how the body works instead of having to make a 100% copy

I don’t agree with Stan about how drawing from observation over and over again, the way the book the right side of the brain teaches, will eventually teach u how to draw without reference. The book teaches observation on a superficial 2D level. Ur seeing the edges and shapes within a set frame, but not the roundness of forms, not the construction of life and how things react with their open limitless surroundings. When working with book, at least from my experience, I didn’t analyze the shapes am seeing. I didn’t think about WHY something appears this way. I was sort of mindlessly copying. Again, it was very helpful to get rid of childlike symbols and it’s a good beginner book, but would recommend moving on from it once u get the idea of the book.

@SubNorm4L

4 жыл бұрын

Drawing from observation can really make your visual library grow a lot if you know about construction, perspective and planes. Almost all I do is drawing from observation now, doing really careful studies of structure. I don't really practice inventive stuff, but when I doodle something like a character, the things that I studied from observation does help a lot. Even when doing fisheye lense perspective or distorted perspective. My stuff didn't really improved from practicing inventive. My imagination drawing started to get good when I started to understand reality. Funny.

@itsisha9762

2 жыл бұрын

I've tried both, i was one of those people who could draw things well with a reference but i didn't really understand 3d form and space at all. As i started to learn it, ofcourse my drawings changed. I could draw somewhat nicer basic shapes, but when it came to drawing realism from imagination or making stuff look cool, i kinda still sucked. Drawing from "imagination" is honestly just a hoax title to describe something. You're not creating something out of nothing, you just draw the shapes you remember from your visual library. That visual libary is built from the things you drew in the past. Knowing 3d form does not equal being able to create imaginative drawings. It is just a more thorough/ analytical version of observation drawing. What made me actually create something without reference was drawing things over and over again and paying attention to the details of that particular stuff. In conclusion, you have to have both, but most importantly observation.

What you're missing, Mr. Marshall? Well, the book (and it's sequel: using color) was made for people like me: logic driven, systematic, sometimes rigid, that we tend to return to our symbols when drawing because our brain prefers to not use so much energy thinking. So I say those books are for 2 kinds of people: 1) People trapped in the "art is a number of steps and symbols" mentality. 2) People that know all the concepts (verbalizing is "left side" if you'd like to call it that) but are struggling to apply them ("right side" ability)

I came to this video linked from another one. Basically the video that I came from said drawing on the right side of the brain really held back a lot of artists. Because just mindlessly learning how to copy won't really teach you how to draw. It'll teach you how to draw from reference but not on your own. You really have to start learning how to break things down into simple shapes. But drawing on the right side of the brain doesn't even mention that. But I guess it's just a beginner book that helps you see things in real life in drawing from observation. I remember when I first started drawing and I quit because I got really good at copying photos but I could never really draw anything without reference until I relearned how to draw. And I'm actually learning how to draw for real braking things down for the first time without looking at reference for everything.