I'd add two more sub roles that I actively think about in my games. With Healers/Saves I'd add Amplifiers: heroes like Ogre Magi, Aghs Aura Lycan, and Venge who increase the potential of other heroes on your team. We saw this a lot at TI with Tiny strats and how many buffs they would stack on the hero to truly break his potential. The other role I'd add into Reach would be Vision Providers: heroes like Zeus, MK, and Treant who can offer vision for fights and/or increased vision control on the map, allowing for more picks offs and pressure. In a lot of games after mid game it can feel like sentries are always bought out, so having heroes who can increase their efficiency in using them feels valuable. Natural gem carriers fall into this category as well. I don't think these roles are as crucial to be considering every game as importantly as you'd consider other roles, but I do think they are distinguished enough on their own to be considered separately from other aspects when trying to create a strong draft.

@onekoff8480

2 жыл бұрын

That makes sense. IO would fit Amplifiers REALLY well, since it's the embodiment of Amplifying other heroes' potential.

@CardCaptor32584

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with vision; I always referred to that role as Scouts. Amplifiers I think i would just put in the category that they are amplifying.

@mgoogyi

2 жыл бұрын

As I remember PPD usually drafted for vision as an EG captain back then so it's quite important.

1. Support -Heal -Save 2. Disabler -Instant -Follow up -Piercing -Break 3. Tank -Beefy -Cancer 4. Reach -Initiator -Assassin -Counter-initiator 5. Wave Clear -Split pusher -TDer 6. DPS dealer -Burst -Sustain -Magic resistance piercing -Armor piercing 7. Objective taker -Building -Roshan

@thegames4565

2 жыл бұрын

Funny thing is Im so new to dota that I dont know if cancer is an actual term lmao

The most imortant thing in the current patch is to BAN TINKER EVERY SINGLE GAME, everything else is secondary.

@MatejSunavec

2 жыл бұрын

Nobody plays Tinker in Herald / Guardian. The last time I remember seeing one was probably me playing.

@masteraqua2408

2 жыл бұрын

Nyx players: why?

@easternperspective0244

2 жыл бұрын

learn to counter him there s nothing wrong with the hero that s why they created spirits to counter high mobility heroes like qop puck tinker

@cynicsoul6451

2 жыл бұрын

Treant spammers: I'm really freaking out

@kevinvicks5349

2 жыл бұрын

pretty sure for an entire year straight I banned tinker every single game because i got owned by it twice lol.

Excellent analysis. I think it's worth mentioning that itemization follows a similar line of thought. Very often it is possible to compensate for a subpar draft by itemizing well. Does your team need a save? Buy a glimmer cape/force staff/aeon disk. Do you need reach? Blink dagger. Do you need burst? Dagon. Do you need tower push? Meteor hammer. Need disable? Euls, atos, scythe of vyse, and so forth.

"There's no counter to being disabled" Ursa aghs: am I a joke to you?

@TinyCloud90

2 жыл бұрын

Bkb

@abaddonthelordofavernus.4353

2 жыл бұрын

*borrowed time*

@iyankichi

2 жыл бұрын

ehem enigma

@slashloy

2 жыл бұрын

@@TinyCloud90 bkb is a counter to a disable spelled.. but if u are already disable, there is almost no counter.

Damm jenkins you rules!

Jakiro is my fave hero especially with ags and shards. I love giving enemies hard time pushing lanes and positioning during team fight. Jakiro is also a great split push. Gaining gold isn't hard for this hero so if I do carry with Jakiro I can also help buy wards to ease the burden of supports.

Stop trying to sell pudge,jenkins:

@josephreynolds2401

2 жыл бұрын

Jenkins wants pudge all to himself. More pudge spammers = a sad Jenkins

Hey Jenkins I would love if you would analize some TI final games considering these Jobmindsets.

Great vid and great page. My take on the subject Healer/Buffer Save Disabler - Instant Disabler - Followup Disabler - BKB piercing Disabler Debuffer - Silence - Break - Slow Tank - Beefy boy stand up front - Lane dominator Reach - Initiator - Counter-Initiator - Assassin Wave clear - Split pusher - Tower defenders Farmer - Scales hard - Farms fast DPS - Burst - Sustain Objective heroes - Rosh - Building Hitters

Here in the Philippines we do magic Sniper with Dagon 5, Yasha x Kaya, Linken Sphere. Sniper that focus on shrapnel and assassinate then dagon. Its a fun build.

Good job dude hope this will make dota great again

please make a list (in that kind o tier list format) where you place every hero in their specific job or achtype

@muhammadsyafiiq7203

2 жыл бұрын

Well it's gonna be incredibly tough, with 100+ heroes each falling in more than one job. It's gonna be hell long of a list. However, You may find Dota itself has applied some of these jobs in-game, the table of that online might help.

*Jenkins giving example of Tower Defenders* Me : "Oh I know, TECHIES!!"

SEA Players: What are those? We only have 5 position carries

If I drink a shot every time I have to tell my "reach assassins'" to kill dazzle first I would have die from alcohol poisoning.

BRO THIS WAS VERY GOOD! I NEVER THOUGHT SOMEONE COULD EXPLAIN AND UNDERSTAND THE GAME TO THE MOST OBVIOUS AMOUNT OF THINGS THAT WE THINK ARE A BASIC COMMON SENSE BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE GETTING CONFUSED WITH THESE? EVERYTHING HE SAYS JUST MAKE SENSE!!! You probably would want to do "what Hero Archtype counter another" for the next time to follow up on this!! Thank you for this video you made me happy!!!

Really interesting video Thanks you Jenkins!

Remember, whatever your role is, never ever forget to trashtalk. That is a very vital part of the game. It's what pumps the blood inside the body.

These are the heroes that make you wince whenever they're doing a remotely well in a game my first thought was techies and storm spirit

Items can be detrimental to shift to a new job that is lack in a game can be the new opportunity take new strategy to win fights or push objectives example scenario is if you pick weaver and your lane countered by night stalker you think of what it can be done if I buy a particular item that give you chance to make a play so like rushing bkb seems the play buy you keep in mind if your team have split pushers so either rush bkb or maelstrom first

Nailed it Sir Jenkins! Super helpful stuff

I've been waiting for this type of content for dota 2. Just a question (probably a dumb question), but are vision heroes not an archetype? Like nightstalker, luna, veno, slardar, bounty hunter, keeper of the light, etc.

@nemmielicious

2 жыл бұрын

Vision heroes are definitely an archetype, though I would count them slightly differently than you. Luna for example is definitely not a vision hero, despite her circumstantial vision advantage, because her vision advantage doesn't mean that she positions to enable her team through vision. I would consider vision heroes to be basically anyone with flying vision (nightstalker, batrider, monkey king, beast master), anyone invisible who doesn't need to be farming (bounty hunter & nyx but not riki / clinkz), and anyone who can have vision of an area without putting their hero in danger (veno, clock, kinda brood & furion, even techies). I think generally something that is true for most of these heroes is that they are a much bigger threat to the enemy team if they are off map, because then they can set up ganks with their vision advantage, which is why vision heroes prefer to be heroes that don't constantly want to farm. If your hero is often showing on lane and farming (luna), I just wouldn't consider that a vision hero, because you're not using the vision ability to your team's vision advantage. However a beast master can show on lane and farm while using his hawk for vision somewhere else, that I do think is a vision hero. Hope that helps!

@Doflaminguard

2 жыл бұрын

Bloodseeker is the best vision

@duellinkskogdecks6089

2 жыл бұрын

@@nemmielicious i hope this gets included in the video. I think they are a very useful archetype especially in tournaments

@redemption3111

2 жыл бұрын

They are important but not every single game. I'd say i would love to have a vision hero if i am playing against tinket so i can find him and kill him but idc about vision if I'm playing against medusa ember spirit for example

@---we8bx

2 жыл бұрын

Yeap, In my head. I call them scouts, I usually play treant, hoodwink and bounty just to scout and put some deep wards.

This is the explanation that we all needed the whole time, I'm downloading this.

Actually a really informative video

Jenkins really good at explaining

I didn't see "Rosh Pit Janitor" in the job list wtf Jenkins.

Bro... you nailed it Amazing vid

storm skin is awesome man. where did you get it?

Oh my, My body is ready

Jenkins... is that a moving blanket?

Well put in words!

So are those archetypes something you came up with or it is official category and where i can find full list of them?

ah yes, the steve buscemi of dota

best entertainment/schooling on yt

Where do you place invoker? because he fits many roles

My fav video to understand dota.

is there any counter initiator heroes other than earthsaker, enigma, & faceless void?

sniper as a split pusher :D

lets go grimlo!

Alternative title: Why Pudge and Sniper are actually good

Funny thing is I won't be able to use this knowledge in my legend games since I'm a support

Techies : late game maker XD

There's no counter to being disabled in dota. Aeon Disk: am I a joke you you? Yes.

Would be cool if you could make a list of the heroes with their jobs

@MatejSunavec

2 жыл бұрын

Totally. I'll make my own.

It seems like Arch Warden, Invoker and Disruptor aren't Jenkins' forte

Where would you put "figth-reseters" or whatever they are called like naga, silencer, mirana, dawn. Do they fall under the same category as es?

@k0kiss

2 жыл бұрын

yeah except mirana, her ult isn't a a good counter initiating spell

@Danjelion

2 жыл бұрын

@@k0kiss i mean it can be more of a sustain/reset after level 15 or just a reset in lower level dota ;)

Thank you mate i learn a l ot

4 year plays dota all i know that i spaming dazzle/rubbick/magnus/jakiro/winter cause i suck in carry

You missed out scripting rubick into this great video haha

does anyone have or wanna help create a spreadsheet of every hero and the roles they fill according to this video? it would be really helpful for me to learn who to pick and when

@bird.of.hermes.4

2 жыл бұрын

im in

Oh, well.. been playing as an Ancient player now I'm gonna overthink this again..

no counter to instant disable ? i beg to differ. dispells are the counter to instant disables. abaddon omni also oracle ult purge stuns too not all but most of the instant disable or regular disable.

you forgot the techies type job

This warlock bring me from Herald to Guardian. Im a lazy player whos watch and always going to the team fight.

I have been spamming a lot of DB 4/5 due to this, not particularly because I watched this video, but because I think DB has a lot of these jobs under her control. I can apply pressure to the enemy early on, provide some fast in-and-out skirmishes, Q has a mini-stun w/c can be a good cancel, W has a slow and a pretty good amount of damage as well as a "reach" so to say. You can also be away from your allies, split pushing, defending waves, providing vision, harassing a lone carry or trying to show up to the enemy for misleading of information. A lot can be done by one hero is a god send for allies who does a lot of what they can do as well. Save, DPS, Disable, Initiate, Counter-initiate, you name it.

@bang.marcel0

2 жыл бұрын

How effectively execute dawn breaker? For an easy difficulty hero, the spells are pretty hard to execute :(

@jhxe

2 жыл бұрын

@@bang.marcel0 I'm not sure about other roles, as a 4/5 she's pretty comfortable for me. All I have to do is follow up to an ally initiate or pressure the enemy team. Midgame I just flash farm waves and enemy camps and swoop to any ally in need of heal/evasion/initiate. I can give you tips if you're gonna run her support, apart from that, you gotta ask someone else.

@bang.marcel0

2 жыл бұрын

@@jhxe i’m a support too! I’ve tried playing her but the spells feels so clunky sometimes. And at times in my crusader rank, having a follow up is great and all but there are no one to start the stun anyway hahaha

@jhxe

2 жыл бұрын

Just apply pressure to enemy supports/carries whenever you get the chance to. As a support, trees should be your best friends, get a quelling blade if you need to make your own pathways. Always take the chance to deal some heavy damage when you are in kissing range of a. Enemy Support or b. Enemy Carry (never try both at the same time). Don't mind it if your carry refuses to follow up, especially when playing 5, you just need to make space for your carry to farm, and deny the enemy's chance to apply pressure/farm. When playing as position 4 what you wanna be doing is contesting pulls by casting W before the pull timer, and pull your camp if it's a little overextended. Try for possible ganks at minute 4/6/8 by contesting runes, but if your lane is going really really good, you don't have to sacrifice that. Always remember to smoke when you move away from your lane pre-level 6. As a position 5, you should do the same and apply pressure to the enemy and stay in your jungle to not leech EXP from the carry as well as counter-pull the enemy and pull the lane on your side. Remember to ward the high ground to be aware of any incoming gank, that also applies being near the river area to break any potential smoke. ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW that in both roles, you have to ALWAYS deal damage. You don't have any protection skill outside your ult, so if you can't deal damage, then you're pretty useless. Before midgame starts, you can stack up any camps you come across to, (as a 4, just stack ancient everytime your mana is like below 200) if your carry doesn't want it, you can take it once your W is level 4. If your carry moves to the jungle early, just help him clear and steer away for EXP leech, unless its a stack you both are taking then just don't take any gold. In midgame, your main priority is to build Aghanims, the only thing making this stupid DB support work. It provides 60% evasion on allies aswell as 3x heal from base amount. You can flash farm any camp with your Q and W given your W is at max level. Just remember to not take any camps from the carry. You should farm only on free lanes (usually the mid) deadlanes (safe lane/broken tower), enemy camps and nearby warded areas. If you die while warding, then just suck it up and try the next area, just don't make it a habit of dying-warding. Lategame is out of your control, you're easily defeated by Spirit Vessel and MKBs so just assist whatever your carries are doing, be it tanking, dishing out damage, cancelling channel spells, OH-KOing the enemy support. Try T1.Whitemon's gameplays/streams for references or for low-budget you can use mine: [Match: 6300402807] and [Match: 6271841574]. It was only through Whitemon that I saw this working and I'm moved, to be honest. Cheers to any improvements you take!

"Creep waves are op" xDDD

You missed one role, trash talker which is exclusively common in SEA server.

Are there any resources that tell us generally what jobs all the heros roughly have? I don't know every hero intimately enough to understand at a glance what jobs they would fufill in game

@falahnur5871

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, there is description that explain what kind of hero it is, eg, support, disabler, nuker etc

Faith in Obelis, still only playing Chen.

22:00 is it just me or he accidentally mimicked bane's voice? :D

Shark archetype by Nikkobaby , best archetype

I trust Jenkins

I still don't understand what is breaking from hoodwink and other heroes, is it some type of disabling?

@halowars400762

2 жыл бұрын

Broken = passives dont work for the duration of the break. Eg PA's passive evasion stops working if she's hit by hoodwink ult and doesn't work until the break debuff is gone.

8:54 Surprised you didn't say Huskar. THE most cancer hero and is super durable. And it has reach. You should go through every hero in a video and talk about where they fall in these categories. Lots of fun is Undying and KOTL or Warlock and Medusa.

Where does MK land? Initiator?

Forgot vision job eg. Monkey/clock/beastmaster/

Next vid: Opinions on every hero.

Bb is one of them

Aye!! its Jenkins

so what youre saying is: pick treant protector

And I don't skill shrapnel with sniper haha

shaman ignored or forgotten?

below 2k players won't do this. even valve put role already still picked Am hard supp lol

I think Jenkins missed one If I were to add to this list I would add buffers/debuffers, someone whos job it is to buff your teammates or debuff your enemies. Example of buffers are Magnus drow and vengeful spirit, debuffers are vengeful spirit, Omni knight, viper, dazzle

@Doflaminguard

2 жыл бұрын

Not really a role tho. Role is how you play around the hero, you dont play around the hero just because it has buffs.

You missing a very important hero Earth spirit the play maker

Jenkins is the best

Mirana arrow is legendary disable

resource takers? pretty important i think

sadly in my bracket, supports pick first... then cores dont give a shit about hero picks :D

Dark Seer only hero where is all of them.

That good but we SEA players only plays CARRY

but isnt team spirits pick a lot of magnus+bane in TI10

@shezmu5324

2 жыл бұрын

It's almost like drafting in your pub games and drafting done by a pro team are different

My main jobs in Dota Trolling and Feeding

Clockwork is pos 5? O.o 8:17 ?!

Does Techies have their own category?

@avic7369

2 жыл бұрын

Techies category is kaboom, torture

I really thought he was gonna assign them real world jobs

tanks job is dead in dota 2. sure they maybe tanky in early game but once its mid and late game they just paper. with alot of heros have break. armor change and massive armor nerf to str heros

U brought all this up and u didnt really talk about how to use it. Should have gone over some drafts using this info

Wowowow, you say OD is exclusively a core? So then why is he a role 4 on DOTA 2 Pro Tracker??? Yeah he scales well but he really only needs one item (Hammer)

imagine picking two bkb disables together like magnus + bane. Just imagine...

@alvinjohn9317

2 жыл бұрын

Beast master toi

For those future viewers watching this bsj video still don't understand about roles Pick techies

SEA players felt disgusted with this.

You cant solo Roshan with Slardar around min 12-15 but you can solo Roshan with TA. Sadge you didn't mention her T_T

you forgot nukers

Where Visage? It can do everything. Change my mind.

so ill play warlock like 90% of the time:)

can someone explain to me how sniper's assasinate is an initiation tool

@NosztraiAdam

2 жыл бұрын

You shoot you ulti on the enemy backliner or other important target that gets easier to kill so your team jumps on the enemy team. I would not call this initiation in a 5v5 situation but shrapnel, ulti makes a PA's job much easier in for example a 2v2 situation, that gets to be a 2v1 very fast.

@sadpee7710

2 жыл бұрын

@@NosztraiAdam thank you king this makes a lot of sense

Why you talk about roles.. When I as supp hero always go first pick.. No choice always in pub to go for counter

I don't know man, I just pick AM and farm

@bjnazerigaming8302

2 жыл бұрын

rtz style boi 🚄