Honestly, I am not sure if this really proves your point about giants being bad and seems sort of unfair. Rather, it clearly demonstrates that after the end of the early game, mages are far more important than anything else. Without heavy mage support, I suspect that the Hastati would not fare so well. Especially since not all of the Niefel Giants ended up blessed. The point is, that this is really not a fair comparison. By this point in the game, Niefelhiem should have Niefel Jarl SCs with magic items, Skratti Thugs, also with magic items, Skratti Turbo-Communions, and Gygjas supporting the mundane troops. A battle in which at least a few thousand gold worth of mages + a rather large army of human troops goes up against two mages that each cost around 200 gold, supported by a few thousand gold of rather mediocre sacreds (I have literally never used Niefel giants once I am done expanding) and a medium sized group of non-sacred soldiers does not really demonstrate your point Furthermore, as demonstrated by Ashdod, with the right bless, a nation with decent Giant Sacreds is extremely dangerous in the early game; they can expand so quickly that by the time the mid and late game comes around, they have a massive advantage over everyone else. There are very few sacreds, giant or otherwise, that remain viable into the mid or late game (Niefel Giants are not one of them) It should also be noted that there are a number of very simple ways that even a small Niefelhiem turbo-communion could make life hell for that Ermorian army: Howl could have potentially played havoc with the Ermorian formations, as could Summon Imps, spells like Rigor Mortis, Winds of Death (with a national hero or lucky Niefel Jarl Random), Vortex of Unlife, Grip of Winter or Foul Vapors could all potentially decimate Ermorian mages and soldiers alike, and skele-spam combined with turbo-communions would drastically slow down the Hastati, and that is not even getting into all the shenanigans that Niefelheim can pull in the magic phase, like Leprosy, Send Horror, Infernal Disease, etc. or the supercombatants and thugs that they could be throwing around. Essentially, while giants do have a number of weaknesses, the real problem that Niefelhiem had here was that he brought two mages, and those mages did not do anything particularly useful, and frankly, if you sent this Neifelhiem army against that Ermor one in a game, it would likely indicate that either you were inexperienced, or were in such a desperate situation that this was all you had. If you are relying on your sacred troops to win mid or late game battles without segnificant mage support, and you are not playing Ashdod or Ragha and maybe two or three other nations (and oftentimes not even then; a lot of the most cancerous nations like Ragha are cancerous because they have something else to fall back on after the usefulness of sacreds has waned, not just because they have powerful sacreds.), you are in for a rough time, regardless of whether they are giants or not.

@RHort-ym7ee

4 жыл бұрын

Came here to say this, thanks. 👍

Unsupported, unbuffed, unblessed, unscripted small group of Niefelgiants in HEAT 3 get´s destroyed by huge army with 26 mages and Gifts from imba Heaven cast by randomly found mages that you will get every 23rd game. Well this certainly wasn´t predictable.

Army with heavy mage support beats army with very little mage support, what a shocking turn of events.

The thing you aren't considering is that giants can communion very well with regeneration and skrati batteries

It demonstrates, that a large soulslay spamming communion protected by cheap line holders is better, than giants without strong mage support. And most of those sacred giants were not even blessed. Try the battle again, with a more sensible script on the giant side. Like a turbo communion spamming foul vapors, swarm, ice ball, astral duel, grip of winter..

I remember when I first played Dominions 3... I thought I was going to stomp with giants but they get mulched. If your unit is size 4 or above it has to be super killy or tanky to justify being the only unit in square.

Im new to Dom 5 and i really want to reach this level of battle. It looks amazing.

In late game, anything can be countered, and it's a matter of who brings the right tools for the fight. In addition to soul slay/gifts from heaven, quite a few other things would work against the giants in this fight: - Typical late-game death: Rigor mortis, skelly spam, etc. Eventually giants will fatigue and since they have relatively low numbers of high damage attacks, it will take them too long to chop through skeletons. Even longdead can kill through 100-200 fatigue giants + regen with the crits from high fatigue. Even worse if the death nation casts darkness, the giants would have major trouble hitting even basic chaff. - Notably lacking on their bless/resist setup is any poison resistance at all. Something like creeping doom + will of fates would be pretty obnoxious. Even w/o will of fates creeping doom spammed a few times is really hard on units like giants. Foul vapors would cause problems too. - Magic weapons bless lets the sacreds hit through ethereal/fog warriors, but not the others. So air nations would still want to cast fog warriors + mass flight and just surround and pound while the non-sacreds struggle to do anything. - Tstrike hits for 26, plus two per air path > 3. 10 shock resist helps, but it's not enough to stop 10-20 mages spamming it. - Similar to air nations, fire nations spam pillar of fire on this late game. 10 fire resist is not enough, each pillar hit does 34++ armor piercing. Flaming arrows + wind guide would add up too. - Water-heavy nations will struggle a bit, unless they have high paths for liquify (basically soul slay) or enough bodies to simply produce 10-20 water elementals. Casting cold resist + quagmire + water elementals + sailor's death would help though.

The roll dice can be confusing. A roll of 6 allows for another roll and each 6 allows another roll. One thing from the rule book is each roll of 6 is counted as 5 pts. Example: Rolling a 6 and a 2 will give 7 pts plus another roll.

Managed to beat a nasty Ermor communion once by summoning some imps. The flew to the back line just as Ermor's mages were going off script. One of the imps was targeted for GfH and it obliterated Ermor's backline.

Video should be called "Why bringing 20 mages will win you most fights"

Yea. Thats why Niefels go ench to cast battlefield frost spell to shut down communions...

>retiarius to kill giants doesnt large size negate the net? i think theyre good for netting size 2 or 3-4 sacreds and elites, not 5 and 6

@Panic985

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, really all they bring is a hard-hitting attack

They might suck. They may lose to normal human troops. They may even be expensive. But my big bois can bully you and take your lunch money anyways. :P #thuglife

5000 gold army versus a 6300 gold army additionally the giants are fighting at a handicap in default box formations in heat 3, which gives their sacreds a minus 3 to their states and -6 to their armor. I don't think this is a very good example given the giant faction has very good tools to deal with masses of infantry in addition to if they had fielded like 5 more mages they'd have about as much gold in the fight as ermor.