Let's talk about language, context, Apple vs Apple, why having a button marked "cancel" in your software might not always be a good idea, and... exploding pie?
Жүктеу.....
Пікірлер: 68
@DylanBeattie2 ай бұрын
Yep, the audio on this one came out too quiet. I'll turn it up to 11 next time. Promise. ❤
@g0rg0n
2 ай бұрын
Dunno man, seems fine to me. I'm using a headset tho, Fiio k3 DAC to a beyerdynamic dt 700 pro x, your audio is at "regular conversation" level and is fine.
@Huntracony2 ай бұрын
I always love dialog boxes like: "Are you sure you want to cancel? [OK] [Cancel]" Also, I'm loving these videos, thanks!
@Jossandoval
2 ай бұрын
Cancel that cancelation! Cancelception!
@kevinscales
2 ай бұрын
The program has crashed [OK][Cancel] Wait, I can uncrash the program?
@mtarek2005
Ай бұрын
@@kevinscalesI mean, the only reason it crashed is cuz it did something bad so the OS stopped it, so technically u can modify the OS to ask you before it crashes an app if u want it to crash or do something weird that is likely to corrupt stuff
@kienanvella2 ай бұрын
Re: moron in a hurry and design induced errors, there is a class of aviation incident that is "design induced pilot error"
@RoamingAdhocrat
2 ай бұрын
can you mention a specific example? some early Airbus A320 crashes come to mind, where pilots confused the autopilot altitude and vertical speed controls
@techmage89
2 ай бұрын
@@RoamingAdhocratThe Airbus dual input issue comes to mind, where both pilots can think they're in control while they're actually fighting each other, because the sticks have no feedback, but add inputs together.
@kienanvella
2 ай бұрын
@@RoamingAdhocrat there were some famous ones where controls had the same feel, or were placed poorly, so pilots actuated the wrong control at a critical moment. John Denver crashed his Long-EZ because the fuel tank selector ended up positioned in an inaccessible place by the person who built the kit, and the sight glasses that acted as the fuel tank gauges did not make it easy to distinguish how much fuel was actually in the tanks, so he did not refuel before he left the airport.
@caerphoto
2 ай бұрын
@@RoamingAdhocrat early B-17s had a problem where they would frequently crash on landing. It turned out that the switches for the landing gear and the flaps were right next to each other, and of the same design, so exhausted pilots would often mix them up after returning from missions. They were redesigned to be far apart and different shapes (the landing gear lever shaped like a wheel, the flaps lever large and square).
@MarkRendle2 ай бұрын
Still remember having a wrong-ends-of-the-stick conversation about "strings" with my wife
@lev_on_heli
2 ай бұрын
Try searching for something like "how does c string look like" on a fresh browser and switch to pictures for better results 😄
@capability-snob2 ай бұрын
Casting. That one was so obvious we all missed it.
@abandoninplace27512 ай бұрын
We have a trademark conflict which will cause customer confusion. But we can come to a settlement where we both still use the trademark at issue, which will magically no longer cause customer confusion.
@OrigamiMarie2 ай бұрын
I like the Gimp dialog box that you get as you close the program on a new, unsaved file. There's an OK button for saving the file with the name you gave it. There's a Cancel button to just stop this whole sequence of events. And there's a Delete button with red text, that makes it clear that you're deleting the file that you just spent 10 seconds on.
@woosix7735
2 ай бұрын
Oh good we’re taking gimp as an example of good UI
@HeadsFullOfEyeballs
2 ай бұрын
On the other hand: GIMP has an option called "save as", which is exclusively for saving the same file under a different name or in a different location, and another called "export as", which is for converting the file to a different format. Not once in my life have I needed the action found under "save as", and yet I click it every single time before remembering that I want "export as". And GIMP _knows_ that users mix these up, because if you change the file extension under "save as" it tells you to use "export as" instead. GIMP. Buddy. If you know what I'm trying to do and you can do it, how about you just _do it_ instead of going "ah ah, what's the magic word"?
@Akronymus_
2 ай бұрын
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballstbh, I never use eithet button as I just use the shortcuts.
@casperes0912
2 ай бұрын
OK is a terrible name. Should be named Save
@bobwilkinsonguitar6142
2 ай бұрын
Save As vs Export As is conventional across several domains of software. You're saving the project, or Exporting the final result @@HeadsFullOfEyeballs
@uplink-on-yt2 ай бұрын
7:30 I hope these guys at the airport discover the white upwards pointing arrow on a blue circle background, and use it instead of the white line on a green circle.
@ralphstube2 ай бұрын
I once expressed my annoyance with handles on push doors to a marketing bigwig who fired back: "That's an 'affordance' called a 'Norman Door', you need to read Don Norman "; so I did, as should anyone who cares about UX/UI.
@y.vinitsky64522 ай бұрын
I live by this concept. Software UI should be usable with limited or no tutorials where possible. If my mom can use it, it is probably OK
@johnaldis9832
2 ай бұрын
For those whose mothers are rather too good at figuring out inscrutable software, imagine she is using it and you want to avoid her swearing at it.
@sodiboo2 ай бұрын
For the financial "cancel" example, i can understand that this is what that term means in finance. But also, when putting it on a UI, especially a button on a dialog box, that word is reserved and should take higher presedence, and clearly this program calls it the *wrong thing*. They should use a synonym, right? "Revert transaction", "Refund transaction". i suppose refund should mean two separate transactions took place? i'm no accountant. But i do know that, at least in software, it's okay to call a thing by multiple names depending on context. For example, discord has a concept of a shared space with multiple channels you can talk in and invite your friends to. What is that called? Ask most users or read on their website, and it's called a server. If you dig into their API documentation and endpoints, or any client library, or if you ask someone who works with discord bots, and you will learn that they are called guilds. Because, in that context, "server" is already reserved for the other end of this connection. You are the client talking to the server, not about a server, but about a guild. For end users (originally, gamers) they are much more likely to want to disambiguate this name from their guilds in WoW or other MMOs. The same philosophy should apply to financial applications. You are writing it for a system where "Cancel" means a specific thing, so either use it as intended, or avoid that name altogether. At the very least, "cancel transaction", but preferably to avoid ambiguity it should be something like "revert" and "back".
@WoefulMinion
2 ай бұрын
It would take up more room, but "Cancel Transaction" would be much clearer.
@jelenaperfiljeva4998
2 ай бұрын
I work with ERP systems. We have many dialog boxes that have Yes/No/Cancel buttons, just like other computer systems. We would never just use the word "Cancel" meaning cancelling a financial document. We'd use "Cancel document" or "Cancel transaction". In addition to avoiding ambiguity, these systems are usually translated to multiple languages. And good luck translating "Cancel" out of context.
@FireStormOOO_2 ай бұрын
Wow that finance program dialog box is asking for problems. "Cancel transaction" and center it, then it at least can't be confused with close popup.
@johnaldis9832
2 ай бұрын
Also add a button labelled “Abort Cancellation” or “Close without Cancelling” or something. Relying on the tiny x is part of the problem here.
@mikeryan23882 ай бұрын
I went from military in a non-tech role to software via a bootcamp (this was in 2014). Everyone wore flip flops. I thought deployments were when your company sends you out of town to work onsite with a client for a period of time. The thing that really threw me off though was Agile. The agile I was accustomed to was a polar opposite of Agile, which seemed to be an intentional hamstringing of developers ability to accomplish anything. The more appropriate term, if appropriation were unavoidable, was FUBAR. It still is
@hermask8152 ай бұрын
Being the RTFM guy in our company, I’m surrounded by many “morons in a hurry”.
@To1ne2 ай бұрын
Whenever I'll see a pie explosion IRL (as in eatable pie) it will not be the same ever again.
@andytroo2 ай бұрын
the c# language design team has the concept of "pit of success" - if you try something the obvious way, that should be the way that doesn't have the pitfalls in it. They have eg: refused to implement shortcuts for nested yielding iterators despite repeated requests, because accidently hiding a quadratic performance penalty is not something that the language should do
@theninjascientist6892 ай бұрын
What an amazing video! I'm surprised you don't have more subscribers.
@DylanBeattie
2 ай бұрын
Thank you! ❤️ As for subscribers - although I've had a KZread account for ages, posting these weekly videos is a new thing. We'll see how it goes. 🤠
@notanut36862 ай бұрын
A day after watching the video i really got one of those prompts where I didn't understand if cancel cancelled the prompt or the entire process
@DylanBeattie2 ай бұрын
So I got a notification from "Rob" asking "why aren't my comments appearing?" Rob, I have no idea... because I can see the notification telling me you posted that, but I can't see the actual comment; when I click the notification it doesn't do anything, and now the notification has vanished. And since all I know about you is you're called Rob and your KZread avatar is an EU flag, I can't think of any better way to reply to your question than just posting this here and hoping you see it. But there are no hidden/deleted comments on this video, so whatever's happening it's down to KZread misbehaving. Sorry.
@logiciananimal2 ай бұрын
I think the test also applies to security matters sometimes, too. PKI fails, for example.
@rmschindler1442 ай бұрын
I, too, don’t particularly like the phrase ‘moron in a hurry’ . let’s not call someone a moron if he choose simply to give as little attention as possible to the app or website he is using what other phrase might we use? . maybe ‘low-cognitive load user’? . I’m sure we can come up with something better . but essentially, the phrase we are looking for describes someone who refuses to give an app or website the amount of attention which is considered ‘reasonable’ . maybe ‘minimally-engaging user’? . idunno; ideas?
@traveller23e
2 ай бұрын
Just stick to moron and get on with your life...
@DSteinman
2 ай бұрын
"Moron in a hurry" passes the "moron in a hurry" test for explaining that UI concept! 😂 Really though, if you have people getting stuck in a UI, you can either moralize their attention span or preempt the problem. A lot fewer people's time gets wasted if you do the latter.
@powerdust015lastname42 ай бұрын
So was that cancel button renamed to something more clear like "Cancel Transaction"?
@nazarshvets75012 ай бұрын
You better start running you videos through some kind of "Volume normalization in a Hurry" tests. My volume is at 100% on each side and I still can't hear a thing over my background noise
@sofiablom44222 ай бұрын
And the you then with "look out for context switches". Usually I don't have to, my computer is perfectly able to handle that on it's own. Oh, you didn't mean computing context switching...
@kepper1042 ай бұрын
lmao, the pie explosion, thanks for making my day!
@cb732 ай бұрын
“Idempotent”
@the1Blind2 ай бұрын
5:44 I love that the "Cancel" on the Password dialog probably means "OK". And that there's no real way out except the X to close - which is a Windows convention, afaik
@RoamingAdhocrat2 ай бұрын
put a red circle on a white rectangle in portrait format and you have a British Rail stop board
@fuzzynine
2 ай бұрын
Put a red circle on a white rectangle in fast forward mode and you have a beautiful splodge of red color. 😉
@woosix77352 ай бұрын
I got a good one: monad
@DylanBeattie
2 ай бұрын
...you mean a monoid in the category of endofunctors? What's the problem? 😉
@woosix7735
2 ай бұрын
exactly
@afuzzybearsyoutubechannel281224 күн бұрын
🤣💚
@edgeeffect2 ай бұрын
I AM THE MORON IN A HURRY!!! ;)
@TankorSmash2 ай бұрын
Audio is a little low in this. Useful otherwise!
@johnaldis98322 ай бұрын
Wot no Weebl reference?
@DylanBeattie
2 ай бұрын
Couldn't find my "We Am De Best" foam hat...
@fuzzynine2 ай бұрын
Dylan: "What is the capital of Norway?" My Brain: "Holy f'ing epiphany!" Language learning models. From toddlers to Terminators in a mere blink of an eye.
@Anshulkhare72 ай бұрын
Sound is too low.
@Ihatebrexit2 ай бұрын
Little know fact - Amiga went with Amiga because it was ahead of Atari in the phone book 😁
@bobweiram6321
2 ай бұрын
That's an old joke told by Steve Jobs on why he chose the name Apple not Amiga. Besides Amiga was a computer, not the name of a company.
@HeadsFullOfEyeballs
2 ай бұрын
I'm told that this is also how Acclaim Entertainment picked their name: they wanted to appear before Accolade.
@Ihatebrexit
2 ай бұрын
@@bobweiram6321 wrong. The Amiga was a company. The company was initially called Hi-Torro, and was later renamed to Amiga Corporation. They raised a bunch of money from some Dentists to work on the Lorraine (which later became the Amiga). This was before Commodore acquired the Amiga computer. Please go read the history of the Amiga - or ask those engineers who worked on the Amiga… I know a few of them (sadly several have died).
@Ihatebrexit2 ай бұрын
@Bobweiram6321 - you're wrong. "A final significant event that took place during 1982 is the company's' name change. In an attempt to distinguish itself from the Japanese lawnmower firm 'Toro', the company name is changed to 'Amiga Incorporated'. The reason for the choice of Amiga has become legendary - Miner wanted a 'friendly' name that would dispel the air of confusion that surrounds most computers. As the Spanish word for female friend, Amiga fitted this profile. The fact that it came before Apple and Atari in listings also helped. Although Miner was unhappy with the name initially, he soon realized the impact that it could have." This all happened before Commodore stepped in and acquired the Amiga computer (the Amiga computer had a few names before it was called an Amiga... but that's a longer story)
Пікірлер: 68
Yep, the audio on this one came out too quiet. I'll turn it up to 11 next time. Promise. ❤
@g0rg0n
2 ай бұрын
Dunno man, seems fine to me. I'm using a headset tho, Fiio k3 DAC to a beyerdynamic dt 700 pro x, your audio is at "regular conversation" level and is fine.
I always love dialog boxes like: "Are you sure you want to cancel? [OK] [Cancel]" Also, I'm loving these videos, thanks!
@Jossandoval
2 ай бұрын
Cancel that cancelation! Cancelception!
@kevinscales
2 ай бұрын
The program has crashed [OK][Cancel] Wait, I can uncrash the program?
@mtarek2005
Ай бұрын
@@kevinscalesI mean, the only reason it crashed is cuz it did something bad so the OS stopped it, so technically u can modify the OS to ask you before it crashes an app if u want it to crash or do something weird that is likely to corrupt stuff
Re: moron in a hurry and design induced errors, there is a class of aviation incident that is "design induced pilot error"
@RoamingAdhocrat
2 ай бұрын
can you mention a specific example? some early Airbus A320 crashes come to mind, where pilots confused the autopilot altitude and vertical speed controls
@techmage89
2 ай бұрын
@@RoamingAdhocratThe Airbus dual input issue comes to mind, where both pilots can think they're in control while they're actually fighting each other, because the sticks have no feedback, but add inputs together.
@kienanvella
2 ай бұрын
@@RoamingAdhocrat there were some famous ones where controls had the same feel, or were placed poorly, so pilots actuated the wrong control at a critical moment. John Denver crashed his Long-EZ because the fuel tank selector ended up positioned in an inaccessible place by the person who built the kit, and the sight glasses that acted as the fuel tank gauges did not make it easy to distinguish how much fuel was actually in the tanks, so he did not refuel before he left the airport.
@caerphoto
2 ай бұрын
@@RoamingAdhocrat early B-17s had a problem where they would frequently crash on landing. It turned out that the switches for the landing gear and the flaps were right next to each other, and of the same design, so exhausted pilots would often mix them up after returning from missions. They were redesigned to be far apart and different shapes (the landing gear lever shaped like a wheel, the flaps lever large and square).
Still remember having a wrong-ends-of-the-stick conversation about "strings" with my wife
@lev_on_heli
2 ай бұрын
Try searching for something like "how does c string look like" on a fresh browser and switch to pictures for better results 😄
Casting. That one was so obvious we all missed it.
We have a trademark conflict which will cause customer confusion. But we can come to a settlement where we both still use the trademark at issue, which will magically no longer cause customer confusion.
I like the Gimp dialog box that you get as you close the program on a new, unsaved file. There's an OK button for saving the file with the name you gave it. There's a Cancel button to just stop this whole sequence of events. And there's a Delete button with red text, that makes it clear that you're deleting the file that you just spent 10 seconds on.
@woosix7735
2 ай бұрын
Oh good we’re taking gimp as an example of good UI
@HeadsFullOfEyeballs
2 ай бұрын
On the other hand: GIMP has an option called "save as", which is exclusively for saving the same file under a different name or in a different location, and another called "export as", which is for converting the file to a different format. Not once in my life have I needed the action found under "save as", and yet I click it every single time before remembering that I want "export as". And GIMP _knows_ that users mix these up, because if you change the file extension under "save as" it tells you to use "export as" instead. GIMP. Buddy. If you know what I'm trying to do and you can do it, how about you just _do it_ instead of going "ah ah, what's the magic word"?
@Akronymus_
2 ай бұрын
@@HeadsFullOfEyeballstbh, I never use eithet button as I just use the shortcuts.
@casperes0912
2 ай бұрын
OK is a terrible name. Should be named Save
@bobwilkinsonguitar6142
2 ай бұрын
Save As vs Export As is conventional across several domains of software. You're saving the project, or Exporting the final result @@HeadsFullOfEyeballs
7:30 I hope these guys at the airport discover the white upwards pointing arrow on a blue circle background, and use it instead of the white line on a green circle.
I once expressed my annoyance with handles on push doors to a marketing bigwig who fired back: "That's an 'affordance' called a 'Norman Door', you need to read Don Norman "; so I did, as should anyone who cares about UX/UI.
I live by this concept. Software UI should be usable with limited or no tutorials where possible. If my mom can use it, it is probably OK
@johnaldis9832
2 ай бұрын
For those whose mothers are rather too good at figuring out inscrutable software, imagine she is using it and you want to avoid her swearing at it.
For the financial "cancel" example, i can understand that this is what that term means in finance. But also, when putting it on a UI, especially a button on a dialog box, that word is reserved and should take higher presedence, and clearly this program calls it the *wrong thing*. They should use a synonym, right? "Revert transaction", "Refund transaction". i suppose refund should mean two separate transactions took place? i'm no accountant. But i do know that, at least in software, it's okay to call a thing by multiple names depending on context. For example, discord has a concept of a shared space with multiple channels you can talk in and invite your friends to. What is that called? Ask most users or read on their website, and it's called a server. If you dig into their API documentation and endpoints, or any client library, or if you ask someone who works with discord bots, and you will learn that they are called guilds. Because, in that context, "server" is already reserved for the other end of this connection. You are the client talking to the server, not about a server, but about a guild. For end users (originally, gamers) they are much more likely to want to disambiguate this name from their guilds in WoW or other MMOs. The same philosophy should apply to financial applications. You are writing it for a system where "Cancel" means a specific thing, so either use it as intended, or avoid that name altogether. At the very least, "cancel transaction", but preferably to avoid ambiguity it should be something like "revert" and "back".
@WoefulMinion
2 ай бұрын
It would take up more room, but "Cancel Transaction" would be much clearer.
@jelenaperfiljeva4998
2 ай бұрын
I work with ERP systems. We have many dialog boxes that have Yes/No/Cancel buttons, just like other computer systems. We would never just use the word "Cancel" meaning cancelling a financial document. We'd use "Cancel document" or "Cancel transaction". In addition to avoiding ambiguity, these systems are usually translated to multiple languages. And good luck translating "Cancel" out of context.
Wow that finance program dialog box is asking for problems. "Cancel transaction" and center it, then it at least can't be confused with close popup.
@johnaldis9832
2 ай бұрын
Also add a button labelled “Abort Cancellation” or “Close without Cancelling” or something. Relying on the tiny x is part of the problem here.
I went from military in a non-tech role to software via a bootcamp (this was in 2014). Everyone wore flip flops. I thought deployments were when your company sends you out of town to work onsite with a client for a period of time. The thing that really threw me off though was Agile. The agile I was accustomed to was a polar opposite of Agile, which seemed to be an intentional hamstringing of developers ability to accomplish anything. The more appropriate term, if appropriation were unavoidable, was FUBAR. It still is
Being the RTFM guy in our company, I’m surrounded by many “morons in a hurry”.
Whenever I'll see a pie explosion IRL (as in eatable pie) it will not be the same ever again.
the c# language design team has the concept of "pit of success" - if you try something the obvious way, that should be the way that doesn't have the pitfalls in it. They have eg: refused to implement shortcuts for nested yielding iterators despite repeated requests, because accidently hiding a quadratic performance penalty is not something that the language should do
What an amazing video! I'm surprised you don't have more subscribers.
@DylanBeattie
2 ай бұрын
Thank you! ❤️ As for subscribers - although I've had a KZread account for ages, posting these weekly videos is a new thing. We'll see how it goes. 🤠
A day after watching the video i really got one of those prompts where I didn't understand if cancel cancelled the prompt or the entire process
So I got a notification from "Rob" asking "why aren't my comments appearing?" Rob, I have no idea... because I can see the notification telling me you posted that, but I can't see the actual comment; when I click the notification it doesn't do anything, and now the notification has vanished. And since all I know about you is you're called Rob and your KZread avatar is an EU flag, I can't think of any better way to reply to your question than just posting this here and hoping you see it. But there are no hidden/deleted comments on this video, so whatever's happening it's down to KZread misbehaving. Sorry.
I think the test also applies to security matters sometimes, too. PKI fails, for example.
I, too, don’t particularly like the phrase ‘moron in a hurry’ . let’s not call someone a moron if he choose simply to give as little attention as possible to the app or website he is using what other phrase might we use? . maybe ‘low-cognitive load user’? . I’m sure we can come up with something better . but essentially, the phrase we are looking for describes someone who refuses to give an app or website the amount of attention which is considered ‘reasonable’ . maybe ‘minimally-engaging user’? . idunno; ideas?
@traveller23e
2 ай бұрын
Just stick to moron and get on with your life...
@DSteinman
2 ай бұрын
"Moron in a hurry" passes the "moron in a hurry" test for explaining that UI concept! 😂 Really though, if you have people getting stuck in a UI, you can either moralize their attention span or preempt the problem. A lot fewer people's time gets wasted if you do the latter.
So was that cancel button renamed to something more clear like "Cancel Transaction"?
You better start running you videos through some kind of "Volume normalization in a Hurry" tests. My volume is at 100% on each side and I still can't hear a thing over my background noise
And the you then with "look out for context switches". Usually I don't have to, my computer is perfectly able to handle that on it's own. Oh, you didn't mean computing context switching...
lmao, the pie explosion, thanks for making my day!
“Idempotent”
5:44 I love that the "Cancel" on the Password dialog probably means "OK". And that there's no real way out except the X to close - which is a Windows convention, afaik
put a red circle on a white rectangle in portrait format and you have a British Rail stop board
@fuzzynine
2 ай бұрын
Put a red circle on a white rectangle in fast forward mode and you have a beautiful splodge of red color. 😉
I got a good one: monad
@DylanBeattie
2 ай бұрын
...you mean a monoid in the category of endofunctors? What's the problem? 😉
@woosix7735
2 ай бұрын
exactly
🤣💚
I AM THE MORON IN A HURRY!!! ;)
Audio is a little low in this. Useful otherwise!
Wot no Weebl reference?
@DylanBeattie
2 ай бұрын
Couldn't find my "We Am De Best" foam hat...
Dylan: "What is the capital of Norway?" My Brain: "Holy f'ing epiphany!" Language learning models. From toddlers to Terminators in a mere blink of an eye.
Sound is too low.
Little know fact - Amiga went with Amiga because it was ahead of Atari in the phone book 😁
@bobweiram6321
2 ай бұрын
That's an old joke told by Steve Jobs on why he chose the name Apple not Amiga. Besides Amiga was a computer, not the name of a company.
@HeadsFullOfEyeballs
2 ай бұрын
I'm told that this is also how Acclaim Entertainment picked their name: they wanted to appear before Accolade.
@Ihatebrexit
2 ай бұрын
@@bobweiram6321 wrong. The Amiga was a company. The company was initially called Hi-Torro, and was later renamed to Amiga Corporation. They raised a bunch of money from some Dentists to work on the Lorraine (which later became the Amiga). This was before Commodore acquired the Amiga computer. Please go read the history of the Amiga - or ask those engineers who worked on the Amiga… I know a few of them (sadly several have died).
@Bobweiram6321 - you're wrong. "A final significant event that took place during 1982 is the company's' name change. In an attempt to distinguish itself from the Japanese lawnmower firm 'Toro', the company name is changed to 'Amiga Incorporated'. The reason for the choice of Amiga has become legendary - Miner wanted a 'friendly' name that would dispel the air of confusion that surrounds most computers. As the Spanish word for female friend, Amiga fitted this profile. The fact that it came before Apple and Atari in listings also helped. Although Miner was unhappy with the name initially, he soon realized the impact that it could have." This all happened before Commodore stepped in and acquired the Amiga computer (the Amiga computer had a few names before it was called an Amiga... but that's a longer story)