Long story ahead, I have a TLDR at the bottom. As an indie video game director, I have always had this sort of wariness of the money guys. Especially when they speak about "What's your pitch? Who is your target demographic? How are you going to fund your video game development? What is your long term business plan?" When I first started out, I was like that selfish guy who wanted to make video games with unlimited creativity. I hated them, I complained about them with my fellow teammates and dreaded having calls with them, gritting my teeth as I begrudgingly answered the questions. I wanted to just make video games without any consequences with unlimited freedom. But as I thought about it more, the more I realized that it was tough love from these types of people. It was the harsh lessons that I needed to learn much like a father wouldn't help a child who scraped his knee up to teach him a lesson. I realized that while I was making a game for myself, I could also target people who were searching for the same experience while also bringing in people who share the same, but not all, of my qualities and now beginning motions to market towards them. Answering the question of who my target demographic is. I started focusing on my pitch for the game, eventually boiling it down to "Fighting against shadowy eldritch unicorn deers while uncovering the greatest lie ever told," answering my pitch. I then began to further hatch plans about researching and writing applications for grants that I feel we would achieve success with. I realized that in these harsh lessons, I became even better at articulating what exactly I wanted from my fellow team members and actually getting the project towards a more viable state. Furthermore, I purposefully built the world of the first game we're creating to naturally have "looser" ends such as characters whose stories can be told in different mediums or more video games, the structuring of various aspects of the game to be sold as merchandise (naturally, these are all long term, but we are building the foundations of course). Thus, answering the question about the long-term business plan while appeasing both the fans and the business peeps. Nowadays, while I find the meetings less preferable compared to working on the actual game itself (since I am an artist/writer first, businessman last). But, I do find them productive and wonderful opportunities to further enhance the studio and its prospects to secure my dream job. While there are some things that I still need to make concessions on when it comes to various parts of the game that I am developing, like for example, animated images compared to full blown 3D cutscenes, cutting down on needless details in concept art, and other small things to make production viable. It has forced me to think about the core essence of the character or the thing that I am trying to convey to my audience and really make sure they understand. I think one of the things about newer creatives is that we are transitioning from the thing that we are doing from a hobby into something businessy, and when business gets involved, things change drastically. Newer peeps like myself go into a sort of state of shock, believing that the only thing that reigns supreme is our creativity. But the thing is, they ignore one of the most universal things about creativity: creativity emerges when you impose restrictions on yourself or they are imposed on you. But, not many of the newer people realize that and thus, they still need to realize it either through proper mentorship or learning it the hard way. I learned it through a combination of both as you read above. Anyways, if you are to comb anything from my long ass story, I would hope you walk away with this: The shock and perception of "Creativity vs Commerce" is a natural reaction as you transition from hobby to profession. Just don't let it consume you with hatred and selfishness. Embrace the market and you will become better as a creative, it allows you to think critically about your project and work Find a good mentor, it will help you to NOT make mistakes. Ask around Discord, LinkedIn, or whatever. Have some serious fun (not in there, but if you have serious fun, you'll find the work pleasurable in the Aristotelian sense) The market is like a good father, one who doesn't indulge you in your fantasies, but it gives you the proper tools to make them real. TL;DR - The tension between art and commerce is overblown and is something good for making better stories and games.

@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist

2 жыл бұрын

Is it weird to assume you'll have to debate or argue (as in convince not bicker) about every decision in a group environment? I thought that'd be the default since stuff like _"What's your pitch? Who is your target demographic? How are you going to fund your video game development? What is your long term business plan?"_ sounds like the bare minimum the cash guys would expect. I'm curious about the 'how' more than the what to be honest. Assuming you have a cohesive vision that leaves room for player/playtester feedback along the way, how do you deal with some chap higher up the chain throwing a monkey wrench into the design of certain mechanics or elements of the writing for reasons they can't argue convincingly and seem arbitrary? Is that even something that actually happens or do they trust you enough to be hands-off with the specifics? There's the problem of trying to appeal to everyone (i.e. no one) as well, but I assume anyone asking about target demographics is kind of aware of the importance of having a specific kind of audience in mind? Could you be asked about something like why you chose demographic X instead of Y when Y is potentially more profitable by their estimates for example? It would be nice to know which things you'd need to prepare to argue the most convincingly. Do prototypes of products and proof-of-concept stuff work better than design docs and phone calls? I figure seeing playthroughs with placeholder graphics to prototype mechanics, concept art and dialogue snippets might help the most for example? Only problem is when you're burning through ideas early on, could investing too much time into stuff that quickly becomes outdated not be as productive as waiting for longer periods between iterations (where you make your ideas concrete)? It may 'feel' like I'm doing work when prototyping but the prototypes get tossed away fast enough that it sometimes feels like pretend-work and longer bouts of planning may serve me better but that tends to lead to borderline procrastination. Any examples of typical milestones/deadline work for indies set by investors would be interesting. Apologies for the ramble if you actually read this.

@kai-louloudavis3724

2 жыл бұрын

​@@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist Yes, its completely natrual to assume that there is going to be large debate around the "how" of certain things. I didn't quite delve into it because of business and development information. But the how is always a thing to consider. To answer your questions about the monkey wrenches, I don't quite have the experience with that sort of stuff since the team hasn't secured a publishing deal as of yet. But that's where debate would have to come in and the sort of concessions that FEE was talking about in the video comes into play. Naturally, things are going to change over time about monetization and you are beholden to the big bucks at the end of the day naturally. As for the demographics part and marketing, while it seems like we're shooting ourselves in the foot with this one, but we're creating a game that I want to see on the market and pulling in people who are tangentially related to a gamer like myself. For example, I am a big sucker for stories that are fantastical yet grounded, we pull in people who are like me, but we also pull in those who like either category. Imagine it like a Venn Diagram where I would lie in the center and crossover and we appeal to those people. Of course, you'll need to prepare some numbers for your moolas peeps. Hope that helps. Yes, they definitely are, average folk usually only care about the final product. Having a placeholder is understandable since most stuff is artistic in its nature and it does take time to produce and refine. Demonstrating the core way in which the gamer will play the game from beginning to the end of one cycle will be good so that people can understand the basic idea. Once you have them hooked, then you need to present the game in a more detailed fashion with concept art, design diagrams, and back to the businessy/entrepreneurial stuff. That's game development for you, you trash stuff you thought would be good and reiterate on certain things depending on feedback and player input. One of the best rules I test my game development with is "Can I do this reasonably quickly with some pen, paper, the rules, and a calculator?" Thats a way that I have been able to iterate upon the game and change varying things quickly. As for the whole entire project management part, that's an art in of itself. But as long as you have some long term goals set that are concrete like "We need to have a level with the following assets: (blah blah blah)" and then breaking that down into smaller, more manageable tasks, then that will certainly be good.

@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist

2 жыл бұрын

@@kai-louloudavis3724 Appreciate the info. Good luck with your publishing deal.

@SupersuMC

2 жыл бұрын

I gotta say, as someone who loves the Eldritch-esque aesthetic, your game sounds interesting. Let us know when we can wishlist it!

@hanzkidz

2 жыл бұрын

What game are you making exactly? Cause I would like to see it for myself

First anime and now gaming. I approve this move of exploring new genres.

@FEEonline

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, this is still about a TV show. It just happens to be the case that the show is about gaming.

@thefrenchareharlequins2743

2 жыл бұрын

What is better, anime or gaming? Neither, *E C O N O M I C S*

@watchdealer11

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline I know, haha. I commented before watching and only seeing the intro.

@Hypeathon

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline In other words, Shirobako, except that instead of viewing from the lens of an anime studio in the anime industry, it’s from the lens of a video game studio in the video game industry. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqKH0rizYbLHaKg.html

@EatWave

2 жыл бұрын

Anime and Gaming are Media, not genre.

Videogames back then were just considered in par with toys for children. Gaming studios back then had less resources and we're essentially "just a bunch of nerds" with a passion for their projects focused on entertainment and gameplay. Back then, being a "gamer" was a derogatory term that the mainstream doesn't want to associate with. Even worse, the media started its campaign of how "dangerous" videogames and gamers are. But after videogames entered a golden age and the entertainment industry picked up on their popularity, the rest of modern society then decided that they want to be "part of the club" as well. The same people who used to insult us as geeks, nerds, losers, virgins, no life, basement dwellers and sneer at us for being gamers now wants us to "be inclusive" and welcome them with a red carpet as they want to be gamers as well. We fire back and trash talk them a bit and suddenly they cry and label us as "toxic" and "problematic", completely forgetting that they have been so toxic and problematic with us by insulting, degrading and belittling us for DECADES. Now that videogames are a mainstream entertainment medium, it has begun to suffer the same problems as any category in the entertainment industry, and that includes being exploited by greedy industry bigwigs and Hollywood pseudo-intellectual ninnies with a narrative to push.

@zuko9085

2 жыл бұрын

What's nice about video games though is the barrier to entry is relatively cheap all around. Meaning indie games with the passion of "the old days" can still make games that are really good. Success stories like Stardew valley, or hollow knight really show that small teams can make amazing games that achieve "AAA" success.

@ValerioRhys

2 жыл бұрын

@@zuko9085 Like any artistic medium, you don't need expensive equipment or lots of money or influence to market a complex and popular title.

@29-arnavsamant97

2 жыл бұрын

Basically what happened 1: "Ayoo look how stupid and dumb 2's club is ahahahahahahahha" 2: "I will just ignore him" 1 realises that 2's club is growing and people are ENJOYING being part of the club, HOW DARE THEY HAVE ENJOYMENT 1 starts spreading rumours about 2 and 2's club 2: "whatever, I will just ignore him, I just want to do my thing" 1 realises that 2's club has grown immensely 1: "👉🥺👈 can I join the group?" 2: "yeah sure but we have a way of doing things around here" 1: 'Wait you have a way of doing things that I dont agree with, YOU MUST CHANGE THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY EXISTED BEFORE ME AND I CAN JUST LEAVE RREEEEEE" 2: "oh for F*CK'S SAKE"

@luelee6168

2 жыл бұрын

@@29-arnavsamant97 pretty much

@29-arnavsamant97

2 жыл бұрын

They dont want us to be inclusive, they want us to pander to them. Look at them complaining about women facing toxicity in games. Notice how they highligh women, and only toxicity towards women is brought up? Even though the same people who are toxic to women are toxic to men too. That rarely is brought up. Because they dont want equality, they wanted special pandering. (again the argument "Its because toxicity towards women is because they are women is obsolete, yes they get trashed for "being women" its almost like those people like to make fun of differences, hence they dont make fun of men for being men since they are men aswell. This goes for women aswell. Women dont pick on other women for being women, but they sure pick on men for being men)

that scene in the car has absolutely sold me on this show lol. that is a DAMN good scene

@limpedpoodle7596

2 жыл бұрын

agreed, while this show SEEMS and still could be a bit too much on the woke side for ME, that scene too had me sold on giving this show a shot more so then just watching the trailer or whatever.

@alexanderrahl7034

2 жыл бұрын

@@limpedpoodle7596 it's heartening to see creative endeavors like these shows taking some shots at it now without fear. It's also doubly heartening to see them stand firm when the woke babies scream and cry about the shows taking shots at their insane ideology lol

@limpedpoodle7596

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexanderrahl7034 i certainly hope so but i literally just started watching it so ill see and judge for myself soon enough

@limpedpoodle7596

2 жыл бұрын

yea i like the show

@alexanderrahl7034

2 жыл бұрын

@@limpedpoodle7596 sweet lol Something to look forward to after work!

"We could use one of those" really made me laugh because I'm old enough to remember when being the "token black person" was an insult. Business has always been a meritocracy. You've got to take your shot. No different than Michael Jordan or Eminem. If you believe people are doubting you, you work harder to prove them wrong. It should motivate you to be better. But the battle between the creative people and the money people is an interesting one. I love intellectual shows with real-world applications. Gonna look this one up. Love this channel (FEE).

21:39 "Many people want the freedom that comes with total creative control, but don't want the responsibility of having to worry about creating anything that is actually profitable."

I love your video FEE as you've educated me on the world of economics and commerce been a fan of your channel for two years now.

@legendaryskinman7305

2 жыл бұрын

Brainwashed

@markcrawford5810

2 жыл бұрын

@@legendaryskinman7305 kzread.info/dash/bejne/poaKt7GAhdDeeqw.html

@silverhawkscape2677

2 жыл бұрын

@@legendaryskinman7305 Brainwashed by how the real world works?

@legendaryskinman7305

2 жыл бұрын

@@silverhawkscape2677 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I've seen dozens of fake "news or information" videos from this channel. It's astounding how many people are brainwashed by corporations and fake news right now

@silverhawkscape2677

2 жыл бұрын

@@legendaryskinman7305 Right, someone who refuses and unwilling to see the real world Calling it fake news

Profit is a double edged sword. It is through profit that game developers survive and grow and be able to develop more games in the future. But doing stupid things like micro transactions and paywalls are just a greedy cheap cash grabs.

@FEEonline

2 жыл бұрын

The beauty of leaving people free to do what they want is that *you* and millions of other gamers get to decide what's a "greedy cheap cash grab" and what isn't. Games that do too much of that don't get played as much as the games that maintain a better, less obnoxious user experience. The same is true, for example, of websites. Greed compels site owners to load them up with ads. But the trade off is a garbage user experience that everyone hates -- both because their field of vision is taken up by everything other than what they came to the site to see, and because ads tend to slow down page loading times and sometimes break features that are important to using the page itself. Not only that, but the fact that this is obnoxious compelled other people to create ad-blockers, which put more control over user experience back in the hands of the users. Sites that want you to use them without the ad-blockers have to be really careful to not go too far. That's how market feedback works. But it's only possible in a free market. A regulated market that intervened in the question of ads on websites would either make it impossible for sites to be profitable and thus only the wealthiest and most popular could survive over time... or (more likely) it would give power to big sites that want to monetize and do something like make ad-blockers illegal. What we want is a world where sites -- or games -- try to monetize via a wide variety of means (subscription models, in-game transactions, ads, etc.) and users let them know, largely through their revealed preferences, which of those things go too far.

@awesomehpt8938

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline I understand. I’m just sick and tired of big gaming companies such as EA and Bethesda ruining gaming franchises by turning them into poorly made virtual casinos. And trying to rip off their customers with these kinds of tactics. These companies however are also big enough to take the hit when there is a backlash and it doesn’t seems like there are any real consequences when there is

@zuko9085

2 жыл бұрын

@@awesomehpt8938 I'm not sure the last time I bought a game from either of these companies. So many better alternatives out there that respect my time and money.

@demonvictim

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline the thing that i see is the constant blending of casino and gaming especially when its not your physical money being used. Fifa used to be a normal soccer game but then came ultimate team. They destroy higher levels of play because its barred behind pay wall that only last a year. Skins are generally great since they don't elevate play. There is a lot of companies that would rather make 10m in 2 years rather then make 2m every year for 10 years. It creates a bubble just like the current subscription economy where there are like 8 subscription for streaming. People just want sustainability over whale hunting

@zeehero7280

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline This is true but in today's business world, things are not as they should be in a free economy. Promoting true economic freedom in 2021 is absolutely NOT about upholding the status quo, as some pretty big reforms would be required to ensure an environment where a newer business can thrive in the same world as an established bigger one. People are able to get away with lying about what a free economy, or capitalism actually is, becuase we live in a world where so much of it has been perverted, often through cheating by petitioning the local government to favor them.

If only EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Konami & more of these jerk of companies realise the reality between their creative & financial talents.

@ProxyDoug

2 жыл бұрын

Ironically, the show was created by Ubisoft.

@TravisSwan

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, they could be making it to tell the creative ones to obey the money but it backfired.

@evacody1249

2 жыл бұрын

Well people buying crap does not help. Nor do people gate keeping games from others.

Their first problem was having store bought items in the first place. Not even just cosmetics(which is also a point of contention, but it's at least a little less egregious), but actual in game bought and paid for statistic. Garbage game design and it's what's killing WoW right now. Along with some other stuff, but that's compounded by the in game store or at least related.

While not a video game, Warhammer 40,000's 7th edition, especially its 7th, was definitely bogged down by rule sets and models exclusively designed to be overpowered to force players to buy it to keep up. Cheese as far as the eye could see, it was a dark time indeed in the 41st millennium. Things have gotten better since, but GW needed to do some really......unwise decisions before they started making changes for the better. A shame they've gone down the path of the Ruinous Powers again as of late.

@mcfarvo

2 жыл бұрын

Grimdark, brother

Back then you bought a game & had an experience of a lifetime when you finished it. Nowadays you buy a game & pay to finish it.

@friktogurg9242

Жыл бұрын

Is this video justifying that? You do not need microtrascations to make a profit

@XlPackratlX

9 ай бұрын

What games are you talking about?

@XlPackratlX

2 ай бұрын

​@friktogurg9242 That's understandable, but Microtransactions are just prices and they help the development studio divert their time, people, and scarce resources to where it is more valuable, esp. if you're running a service.

@janeshepard9549

2 ай бұрын

@@XlPackratlX sounds a lot like hoarding of bread to elevate prices during a famine - history knows how that turned out when man's 'necessary greed' became limitless.

One of my best friends makes her living doing immediate on demand commissions while live streaming the drawing process.

My dream is to open my own coffee/desert shop in a developing township where my gf lives. Giving the hard working people in that developing town just wants a great cup of coffee and share a desert with their family. But my conflict is having to inherit my father's business as the eldest child, I might just split it with my brothers (who's been working there for a year), take a small cut and allow me to have some breathing room establishing that coffee shop.

I subscribed to you because of your movie reviews, I honestly never thought that one day you would talk in-depth about my day job. This is a very pleasant surprise and a welcome one.

Great Episode as always FEE. Being a long time gamer as I am, I always blame the "money" and "business" aspect to ruin creativity. From Assassin Creed series to CDR Cyberpunk, there were countless example of cooperation's greed rotting away great work of fictions. But you have given me a new prospect to think about. Blaming money isn't the right approach but rather to understand it. Creativity and Cooperation could go a long way if both side communicated their view clearly and work together rather than villainizing each other. After seeing your video on this issue, I can go forward with this new understanding. No more hate on "the suits" for me Thank you FEE

@zirconiumdiamond1416

2 жыл бұрын

I am not sure that I would put Cyberpunk's issues under the banner of greed. People were getting increasingly pissed off at their delays, releasing in 2020 was a nice homage to the Cyberpunk franchise, and they went further out of their way than most companies to offer refunds. It wasn't even a matter of cutting corners to save cost, as they were always pretty committed to fixing the issues and releasing additional content as free DLC. CDR's problem always struck me as hubris more than greed. They got away with fixing post-release with the Witcher series, and maintaining fan loyalty. Somehow, product management didn't understand before release just what a poor state the game was in. If they truly understood the state of the game, they wouldn't have released, even if greedy, because the negative reputation harmed revenue far more than the advantage of pulling in that revenue a quarter or two earlier (interest rates are very low now).

@Michelle_Wellbeck

2 жыл бұрын

@@zirconiumdiamond1416 It seems to me that it was pretty clear that the heads of the studio created the problems around the game themselves by overinflating the expectations on the product (at the peak of the hype it was practically "you can do anything") while not allocating enough development resources (time and staff) to reach anywhere near the expectations. It's a clear lesson that the marketing of a game needs to be reasonably in line with the quality of the product if you don't want to be the laughingstock of the internet.

"Commerce lubricates art" - Me, 3 seconds ago

Quick question: Can profit, used only as one metric, determine the health and enjoyment of a game? Many mobile games went under the "fight for whales," where they only spotted their game for the people willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a game. This had some issues, as it wasn't fit for regular players, but if the whales are having a good time, and the game is making money, does this make the game good?

@oreox1000

2 жыл бұрын

I’m by no means any kind of authority, but here are my thoughts. Purely subjective since financial viability doesn’t equate to an entertaining/engaging experience in my opinion. The “whale” may enjoy their experience and think the game is great, but the ordinary player may find it toxic and unplayable because they can’t compete without spending tons. I don’t know if I’m even responding correctly. Apologies.

@Gucesarl

2 жыл бұрын

@@oreox1000 I tend to agree with you. Generalistic anaylsis usually try to balance it, but it's a hard task, while I found to be more fruitful to point out everything the game offers of good and bad and point out which type of gamer would enjoy it more. Although a argument could be made that a objective view could be pointed out that actually fits more one point of view than other.

@brightlancer

2 жыл бұрын

The Wu Tang record that was just auctioned off again -- it sold for millions of dollars, but only one person has a copy. How many folks can enjoy it? Does the money make it "better" than someone's album that sold 100 copies? I don't think that it's useful to try and measure "good" or "health" or "enjoyment" on a single axis. Maybe we could, but I think it's just more useful to weigh multiple factors and know that our analysis will be a bit subjective.

@bestaround3323

2 жыл бұрын

I think long term profit is a better indicator of a games health. As if a game is just made for whales, then the free players will leave, and the whales will have no one to whale over. They will then leave and take the money elsewhere.

@jacobhargiss3839

2 жыл бұрын

In practical terms, you want to avoid structuring a game in such a way that the fun only comes after a paywall. Sure, the people who are past that pay wall will have a blast, but you cant get to that point if players dont enjoy the game from the start. More People will spend more money on a game they already enjoy then will spend the money to hope they enjoy it.

"Profit" only ruins products when the coorperations make competition untenable

Your video essays are really insightful and relatable. Keep it up.

God damn this episode was incredible. My perspective expands every times i watch one of your videos. Who was your mentor or helped you to develop your perspective?

I binge watched the show after this episode came out. I have to say even though I really like Brad in the end CW ended up being my favorite. His journey really speaks to me as a writer and I just absolutely love old men with no filter.

Seems like an interesting show. Wish it was somewhere other then Apple TV so I could watch it. Altoght I'm interested in the topic or maybe the idea of the show handling and talking about the whole 'Crowdfunding' angle that has grown in the past half a decade. I think k it would be interesting idea for the show or even this show to breach in both its goods and bads.

@RS-ub3we

2 жыл бұрын

Apple TV is $5 a month. They have, hands down, the best selection of TV shows right now. Nearly every show is great. If you don't want to support Apple, just pirate it at least.

I looked further into Walter Williams, and at a glance, he looks like he has a great outlook on economics! Edit: just finished the video, and my plan is to do game development as a hobby when I have the skills needed to do so, but my main career will be a path I am almost as enthusiastic about: Cybersecurity! I enjoy breaking and exploiting systems, but also love designing those same ones.

A shot of Keanu Reeves as we hear the word "humility", nice touch! I hear he really is one of the most humble people to ever star in a hollywood movie. Nice to see people like that have success and recognition.

well that car scene just sold me on the show XD As for the creative vs producer argument... I've struggled with this for a very long time, I almost became a 3D artist but decided not to because it wouldn't give me enough creative freedom even if it would give me financial stability. Instead I decided to do my own art and I'm working towards doing a comic. Constantly I'm thinking about 'will this keep propelling me forward' either by helping to get me more followers which in the long term would mean money (this is why I do some fan art) or pieces that upgrade my skill (choosing specifically ambitious angles, lots of hands, fluids etc).... It's a constant thing that I have to think about... Even if I don't want to finish a drawing I know that the four hours it'll take to finish it would take less time then starting something new that I would rather work on. That being said, if I have and idea or am getting bored with something I will take a small break to sketch so that I'm always inspired and not just doing things because 'I need to make a post' It really is a trade off and the artists I respect and admire the most update frequently with personal drawings/paintings that you can tell they enjoyed doing. So although I'm gritting my teeth and doing little on the odd bit of fanart I know that it serves the potential future where every drawing I do is my own.

I know what Brad adds, but what does Poppy add? It's the programmers working under her that bring her visions to life, and it's not like "enchanted forest with sexy elves in it" is a particularly groundbreaking vision to begin with.

I see Poppy and the show broadly as a decent stand-in for more discussion about "Oppressive Altruism" or "Philanthropy" in general; looking into aesthetics, access, appropriateness, and the underlying altruism and antagonism of the world of work, and it's applications in life.

If anybody is interested in more, there is a great GDC talk called something like "why dark souls is the IKEA of video games"

Martin O'Donnell, the guy who did sound design and music for the Halo games, talked about Bungie working with Activision post Microsoft and speaking with an Activision executive. He talked about the goose that laid the golden egg and about the importance of being nice to the goose. The Activision executive literally replied with "Sometimes there's nothing like a good foie gras." That is a literal Bond villain tier response. O'Donnell would later be fired from Bungie and a good many of the original employees there left.

I'm going to be honest, Brad Bakshi's antics in episode 2 should've absolutely gotten him fired, on the spot. If I was the head of that company, I would've mediated between him and the employees in an attempt to bring him under control, tell him what he's doing wrong, and reprimand him, but turning off the prices? That is a colossal NO-NO, he massively harmed the game JUST to teach one of his co-workers a lesson, I would not tolerate that level of pettiness, I would've terminated him on the spot when I heard about that!

@XlPackratlX

Жыл бұрын

Reprimanding him for doing his job? You're saying you want nobody running monetization for your games lol

I watch mythic quest because of your video and i watched both seasons in 1 weekend. Its a good show that uses the social problems in a good way. at first i was like : ow shit there we go again with the LBGTQ thing , but after i watched it i really liked how they implemented this in the show hell i loved the all the characters in it.

Wow, "I am giving you exactly what you want, to be heard, but you don't even know what you want."

Just want to say, whether or not you enjoy the rest of the show, episode 5 "A Dark Quiet Death" is a spectacular mini-movie, and can be watched totally independently of the rest of the series.

There's a reason why "customers are kings" is a thing, you make a product and it's the customers who want to buy your product or not to lead you to your success.

I work for Washington State. My wife is 8 months pregnant and I’m about to be fired because I’m no longer fit to work because I’m not willing to show proof of vaccination. This video was phenomenal by the way. I’ve always wanted to work in the creative industry and this is convicting and powerful.

Watched Mythic Quest and I like how they had the 2 entitled lesbians getting comments that put them into their place. I liked Brad and Jo the most.

I need to watch this now. After that car scene, I fucking love Ian. That sort of "lunge at every opportunity, make shit happen" sort of personality is exactly the sort of thing we're missing these days, and I can relate to it so strongly

Thank you for all the hard work you put into these videos. As an entrepreneur, the advice and perspectives have been influential in my business as it has grown.

@FEEonline

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

What’s your opinion on the Cyberpunk fiasco. After what happened to that game and maybe fits in with this video’s theme.

Thank you so much for featuring this show. I discovered it through your channel and it's now one of my favorites.

I’ve kinda been lost on what I wanted to do with my life. Having ideas and goals that I later learned weren’t attainable in reality. I’d like to become a creator to create culture and fight in the culture war, but at the moment I don’t have the tools or clue on where to start.

@JStorm90TV

2 жыл бұрын

Similar position here... I love creating music but don't know if I've made anything profitable. I want to put value on my music but I'm not sure how to make it so... We're on the same boat friend

@JMObyx

2 жыл бұрын

Well, I think I can provide you with guidance, what KIND of impact do you want to make? And what specific flavor?

@JStorm90TV

2 жыл бұрын

@@JMObyx was your comment for me?

@JMObyx

2 жыл бұрын

@@JStorm90TV Darth Ribbet, but anyone can apply.

@jamesbarnes5769

2 жыл бұрын

Start small. Pick something like a youtube class on something interesting like editing, lighting, writing, just start. Before you can be good at anything you have a long path of being bad at it. Just get started learning and you'll start to recognize the opportunities you might be blind to now.

I agree with all of it except the one thing were you said that just because she was gay and the fact that it was tokenism. I do agree that tokenism is bad. I also do think that she has the potential to bring a new perspective, but she needs guidance which is Rachel's whole thing. Tokenism for the sake of tokenism is bad, understanding that tokenism can be converted into nuance and perspective if handled well, in this case she was useful because most of the characters there are too self involved to understand a lesbians experiences and, if I'm not mistaken, they were looking to create a more rounded product in that episode.

The question is only useful if the game is being developed to be sold. If yes, then it's a product like any other, subject to the whims of the customers. 15:32 Why was it important for the studio to expand? There are small studios that have been making the same kind of games for years (e. g Kairosoft).

@NotSpecialDude

2 жыл бұрын

The same reason many people aren't satisfied being indie filmmaker or independent novelists. The ideal for an artist is too leave an impact on the world, and something small woupd be washed away by the waves of time.

@kdizzy07

2 жыл бұрын

I guess not everyone wants to make the same kind of game for years. If I had to guess I would say that's a minority.

Thanks for the video review. Might check out this series. Liked your take on how art and commerce don't have to be mutually opposed to each other. Rachel reminds me a bit of my younger self.

“I’m giving you exactly what you have been asking for-to be heard. But you don’t have anything to say because you don’t know what you want.” That whole scene sums up gaming journalists right now. They bitch that they have to actually play video games for hours on end to talk about videos games like they know what they are talking about. People say-ok…why not pick another job? What would you do to make the situation better? Ask for more time to finish the game? Ask for earlier copies to sent out? Maybe send the game in chunks to take your time? But nope-none of those-it’s not about the job being difficult for them-they hate the job they are doing-and worse they show contempt and entitlement against those who would beg and pay to be in the position they are in-to get a job talking about video games. And about the whole thing of people getting picked on their born traits rather than what they offer-look at Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn-both people who crowdfunded stuff from people and reached their goals…yet they bitch that “anti feminists” make more money than them WHICH IS FACTUALLY UNTRUE-and worse they never fulfilled on what was promised in their goals-and-Anita at least-started another campaign and made tons of money AND I REMIND YOU she didn’t even finish the promise of the first Kickstarter! You cannot tell me an anti feminist would get away with the same shit these two have pulled-much less get as much money as they did-they get the money because of victim points and constantly telling people they are harassed…. And it gets worse when these types of people join in on gaslighting fans when the bigwigs blame fans for not wanting their garbage. Looking at you Elizabeth Banks! Getting mad at men for not wanting to see a film where every woman is perfect and every man is a cartoonish supervillain to the point it ruins the twist and story for that matter-is not going to make you a better creator! Looking at you Kevin Smith who lied about he man being the main character of the new show-yet you lied to people so he man fans would watch your garbage show that shits on Adam and he man and kills him twice and makes asinine decisions that any he man fan can point out-BUT GO AHEAD AND GASLIGHT FANS THAT CALL YOUR SHOW WOKE GARBAGE BY SAYING THAT THEY ARE SEXIST AND HAVE AMNESIA-CAUSE THAT WILL MAKE YOU LOOK BETTER AM I RIGHT?!?! Neil drukmann too-calling people sexist for not liking the new garbage last of us game after fans had to see a character they wanted to see be around for a decent chunk to hang with Ellie-get killed early on for the sake of sucking up to a female character that is unrealistically proportioned. But blue check marks will suck up and call men sexist or find things like Uzaki Chan to make straw man arguments about fans being dumbasses. Cause that will help the game you want to suck dick to right? IM GETTING REAL TIRED OF BLUE CHECK MARKS-JOURNALISTS-AND BIG WIGS GASLIGHTING ME AND OTHER FANS FOR NOT LIKING THEIR GARBAGE MOVIES AND SHOWS AND GAMES AND NOT EATING UP THEIR PROPAGANDA!

I Would posit that this is the difference between profit, long term investment in pleasing the customers and producing a quality product, and Greed, caring only about short term gains treating the customer as completely disposable and caring nothing for if they are happy. Profit is a force for good, while greed is a crude perversion. Excessive monetization and turning microtransactions into something no longer micro, or just shoving them in places it does not belong, are always going to be bad. A real life example, compare a couple games in the MMO genre, the genre doing the worst currently due to its expensiveness to create and maintain, how Final Fantasy 14 by square enix rose from the ashes of 1.0 failure to be accepting the vast majority of people quitting World of Warcraft due to Blizzard/Activision embracing the evils of winnie the pooh and their money for tyranny, as well as completely pissing off the playerbase over and over and not caring. Smart business takes into account the fact the customer is a person. as this channel has said before the economy IS people.

@HikariKobayashi

2 жыл бұрын

Final Fantasy XIV is probably one of the best examples of how taking a risk can lead to better things. For those unfamiliar, the 1.0 version of Final Fantasy XIV was a dismal failure. The publisher hired a new director who decided to get rid of the entire game and start completely anew. A Realm Reborn, as the new game was known, was ushered in with a huge raid event where the entire world was destroyed and the principle characters flung away to a new world that would be A Realm Reborn. That event was made the origin story of the new game, and every subscriber to 1.0 got ARR for free and were given a discount on a subscription. I believe they all got more benefits besides, simply for being loyal players. Now, I don't think I'm exaggerating saying Final Fantasy XIV is the biggest MMORPG in the world currently, and it stems from both a creative desire to fix a broken world instead of discarding it and a little monetary risk with a big possible payoff. Creatives and their business partners are all people, and it's up to everyone in the room to recognize when risking your investment is worth it, and when it's not. Sometimes they judge correctly, sometimes they don't.

@zeehero7280

2 жыл бұрын

@@HikariKobayashi It's not only the risk it's the fact that they have treated the customers as customers and done their best to treat them right. they of course can't and don't do a perfect job but compared to the vast majority of other online games, definitely do a good one. Forcing P2W microtransactions into a game may be for the most part, within the rights of a business, but it is not something to be defended outside the right to do so. It is like the right to free speech. by law you can say whatever you want to anyone you want, but you can't require everyone else to react well. as long as they do not violate your rights in their negative responses they are welcome to hate your guts and be mean to you. this is sadly exploited by corrupt monolpoly big tech becuase of the same corruption afflicting our free market today, but that is why the free market must be cured of governmental corruption.

@zirconiumdiamond1416

2 жыл бұрын

WOW feels more like complacency than greed. Yes, they put in a bunch of stupid monetization into the game, but, best I can tell as an outsider, that isn't what drove folks away, it was the multitude of poor updates that weren't fun and broke the lore, while the developers became increasingly estranged from the player base. That isn't greed; a bad update doesn't do a corporation any good and a greedy company will always plaster on a fake smile while taking your money. Which developer spends more on bringing new content into the game? I suspect it is Blizzard by a mile. After all, until recently, they had so much more revenue to play with. The problem is that they are getting so much less quality for every buck invested. Since players develop relationships within the game, they tend to stick with it even after becoming unhappy with the game itself. As a result, until recently, Blizzard wasn't getting the market signals that it needed to course correct. Regardless of what the player base was SAYING, they were still PAYING, and actions speak louder than words. It would have been easy for Blizzard to think that things were "fine" perhaps not great, but not worth the risk of a change to try to improve. Now that an exodus is starting, it may be too late for WoW to make the necessary changes to stay on top. As people's friends jump over to FF, it will make it that much easier to join them. It would not have cost much for WoW to have brought in different creatives with a more coherent vision for the game. That they dismissed customer complaints and kept the status quo was complacency, not greed.

“The single most creative and moving piece of content peak-pandemic.” I guess you haven’t seen Inside.

I studied graphic design for a bit and our instructor told us "do you know what the difference between an artist and a graphic designer is? A paycheck." I feel like that summed things up pretty well

19:29 - just a reminder that David in in fact the boss....because no one else seems to remember XD

In my option money does not ruin art. Take something like anime movies like Ghibli or pixar. Both are massive studio with large budgets but have managed to create art. Both. studio however put art and story telling before profit.Before bioware sold its soul it was the same way. Large budget but amazing games.

"Your sensing macroaggression " that's just a murder.

To refine the advice down to simplicities: 1. Got a vision? Just do it. But... 2. Don't ignore the advice of others around you. But... 3. Don't give them too much leverage either. But... 4. Don't push them away entirely. But... 5. Don't let them turn your vision into their vision. But...finally...? 6. Remember that money is what makes it possible. So... 7. Be kind to the bean counters. This may not be the best rendition of it all, but it is... close. I think. Ultimately the advice boils down to finding a healthy balance between keeping to the original vision, and allows for small changes to make it viable to make some money. Not all things worth money are worth doing however, as it doesn't matter how much is made if the original vision is lost entirely. So again, balance must be kept. I think Amazons "New World" is a game that has some history that sort of resembles this situation. Or so I figure from doing some beta testing of it.

Why do I feel like, more often than not, any new FEE video is the best FEE video ever?

At the past few places I've worked my boss(es) have been confused by my want to bring value to the company and do whatever unpleasant or dirty job that needs done. Honestly, I have to thank you for giving me this perspective. Anyway through these experiences it has struck me that that is not most peoples attitude. Don't get me wrong I'm in x job for me and simply want to make a fair trade. I just make sure I have the training and volunteer for the jobs I want rather than be told to do the ones I dislike. Anyway just my reflections on the rarity of understanding of the economic trade that is having a job.

OK, but screw in-game monetization. It has ruined so many games. I have gotten to the point where I only buy games that offer no paid advantages. Make your money from sales or subscriptions. What’s the point of “winning” if you paid to win? It means nothing. If there’s an “in-game economy,” it should be based around what you earn in the game, nothing else. Bringing the real world into fantasy undermines the fantasy and makes the game inherently inegalitarian.

@cdubsb3831

2 жыл бұрын

Or anti-consumerist digital rights management that makes your product more worthwhile to pirate and only punishes paying customers.

That video was perfectly timed for me to see, even more than I would expect. Thank you!

One thing that always puzzles me about companies with long life-spans is this: why do the money guys wind up being the top bosses? I am, myself, very focused on how you make money with an idea if you're going to make a business out of it. I get that the creative type, the inventor, the "genius" or whatnot...he has to listen to the guys managing his resources for him to know what resources are available and to try to maximize those resources. But why does it seem inevitable that eventually the money guys wind up dictating the way things go? Why do the creative controllers not retain the last word? Perhaps they can't tell reality to go away and let them have infinite resources to make stuff, but they can be the ones who say, "I have heard what you tell me about the money, but we're not making that change," or "...but we ARE taking this risk." And this isn't just about art. It's about anything. Or even EVERYTHING. Businesses are NOT money-piles that also happen to sometimes make things. Businesses are structures to make things which, as a consequence, result in piles of money moving around. What is it that leads businesses to putting "the money guy" in charge? Even if your focus as an investor is on profits, you shouldn't want somebody who is only concerned with "the bottom line" making the decisions about the product line, or about what products get tried! You want him there, keeping the people running things informed about their finances, and helping to monetize their ideas, but you don't want them dictating what ideas even get tried. That's not their bailiwick. That's not their expertise. So why is it that the final decision-maker, the President and CEO or whatnot, so often winds up coming up from "the money guys" section of a company after a generation or two? It's one thing if he made the switch back and forth between creator/inventor/engineer and money-guy, and is moving into the top spot because he has a vision for product lines that will be profitable because they serve the needs of the customer base. But the story always seems to go that it's a pure "all business is business, and can be run alike" money-manager type who winds up running things eventually, and that's when they run strictly on the momentum of having money until they run out of things to bleed to death.

@FEEonline

2 жыл бұрын

I actually think a lot of the answer has to do with self-selection. Artists don't tend to like managing people, paying attention to budgets, writing reports, engaging with the board, etc. So I think they kind of take themselves out of the running for CEO spots a lot of the time.

@segevstormlord3713

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline, I suppose. You'd think they'd want to retain control over the creation, though. Ceding management doesn't mean ceding decision-making power. Managers work for decision-makers all the time. The decision of WHICH projects to do is not the same as MANAGING those projects. I guess creative-types just don't realize that, or the money-types sell them on falsehoods (that they may ,themselves, believe) that management equals final decision-making power.

@FEEonline

2 жыл бұрын

@@segevstormlord3713 there are plenty of creative agencies where that model is in action (ie. creative as CEO or CCO and managers handling business underneath), but I think it's rare overall mostly because of fundamental personality differences between money people and artists. Creative people tend to be very high in the psychological trait of openness, whereas great managers/business people tend to be more analytical and conscientious. I have a decent mix of both, and yet, I can tell you from personal experience that while I am at the senior level at FEE which is a very small organization in general, I don't have much interest in being President (for instance). I used to freelance and run my own company, and I know that had I continued that path I'd have eventually found myself in a position I don't know if a I want to be in. That said, I think the most successful creative in any industry are the ones that find a way to balance these traits. You need the openness to be imaginative, but you also need the conscientiousness to get detail oriented and buckle down and execute the vision within the limitations of reality. Not that many people do that super well.

Excellent video! Love it.

I watched this show because of you, before I watched your review, and holy crap this is my new favorite show!! SO good!!!!

This should be a day's class, at least, for any arts degree program. For that matter, any industry.

I've watched the first 5 episodes and its rough. I'm not enjoying this recommendation very much, usually its pretty top notch. Like you said it's a rough year for television. A show I really liked recently was Loki, but I get that a show about time travel would be hard to make economic lessons out of.

Just watched this and I have to say this is profound. Very well done. Thank you!

This show sounds really interesting, but I hope it's not going to go easy on the business side of making video games. Real-life game studios today aren't as idealised as that of Mythic Quest. They balloon the production costs of their games, then try to make up the costs with predatory monetisation, and even go so far as to actually LIE about what kind of games are "popular" and worth making to satisfy their myopic visions and bottom line. Like how they want every new game to be an always online multiplayer "live-service" crammed with lootboxes. In the current climate, the bean counters are more responsible for the unenjoyable state of video games these days IMO.

I want to get into product/e-commerce photography I just graduated with a degree in digital media and have a decent amount of experience I just don’t know how to get into it

The whole initial part about the conflict between finance and creativity was so basic and pablum, I was seriously questing the worth of this video. But glad I stuck around, seems like an interesting show.

"Does Profit Ruin Video Games?" Well, the latest EU4 DLC from Paradox Interactive certainly makes it seem like it

The industry I am in doesn't generate revenue for my clients, but what I can do is generate value. I work as a corporate security manager, and everything I push my department to do it to create value for the other employees of the company as well as the c suite executives that have the vision for the company. If I can't generate value them I am taking away from the profit the other business units crate and my department will be seen as irrelevant and over bloated.

I can agree with both poppy and Brad to certain extents. It is easy for micro-transactions to be way too over the top, and I sympathize with Poppy's desire to avoid micro-transactions completely. Brad's idea of a casino is part of what sucks with the industry today, loot boxes are over the top and rely on gambling mechanics to work, however, as long as loot boxes don't dramatically change gameplay I can't complain. One of my favorite games, Smite, has a lootbox system, but it's 100% optional, and only has cosmetic items, something not necessary to enjoy the game.

Damn good episode 👍🏾

does anyone know the name of the movie shown at 24:10? I don't think I've ever seen it before but just this scene seemed interesting!

Aw, this sounds like a great show, but I am absolutely never going to get Apple TV because I don't want to give money to Apple, so I don't know if I can watch it.

Still the best channel on KZread.

What kind of annoys me is how I felt as a student studying Game Programming. I was told to watch a documentary about game development and the only I could find. At a school that was advertising their game design program I might add. basically treated programmers as someone who has very little to do other than what the other teams want. Most of the Art students thought of that as well which not only was frustrating but also seemed odd as most games that have really hit their stride had to have serious input from programmers or had programmers have a major say in the game. Doom is a perfect example as the first game was conceived by the programmers after DnD. What infuriates me is who do you think came up with ideas such as homing rockets, how different spells have different effects what about hidden walls or what each item serves in the sandbox. It also seems as if code and programming are not the first priority of developers. Think of all the games that were messed up at launch even though the artwork and and graphics were put in the forefront. Or games like Star Wars Battlefront (2015) the art was there but the game was so shallow it was basically like stepping in a puddle. Where as Battlefront II (2005) had to create a campaign from scratch after the majority of the game was done. And the whole team managed it but I appreciate the programmers because it wasn't just a story or some cutscenes that sold it. It was the fact the game had variety they made different missions that all played differently and while the story was great to boot, it would have not been remembered if it was carried by great work on the developers. I guess what I am saying is I think one aspect of game design as a business that I would like the show to cover would be to actually show how developers are kind of overlooked with what they do as I think it's a terrible strategy to have a business where the art team seems to have more of a major say than the people programming and helping bring the game to life. As I think personally that I programmer might come up with a new feature or mechanic that may not at first be well suited to the art style or story of the game, but would ultimately save a project and give it new life where other departments may not. Such as developing a weapon that has a Binary trigger where you press fire to shoot it and when you let go of the button it fires a second shot. That would be a game changer.

I have always strongly agreed and disagreed on many opinions, thoughts and ideas you have shared on this channel. I love the content and also think that more people should see what you do.

This is a fantastic episode. I enjoyed this one especially cuz I personally am trying to get into this industry when I'm done school.

@travisbishop782

2 жыл бұрын

I wish you luck!

So in the thumbnail; the sword has a 13th century ornate hilt, but the blade is done in ancient stave runes. My thinking is that it's an old and storied blade, that has been refitted with a more modern hilt to keep with the times. 🗡 That's it, that's my comment.

One of the best Out of Frame episodes.

Brilliant take.

I'll probably have another comment when I get through more of the video, but I disagree with the need for games to have micro transactions, when you put a physical price on success in the game, you rob the the purpose of the game itself. Putting the rare items behind quests or as rare drops within the game give you the satisfaction of earning them. Whether you pay or not, "noobs" are going to get powerful without any work, based upon their wallet size with purchasable items. Being able to purchase any digital aspects that aren't purely cosmetic, is pretty much saying it's not about the game, but the ammount of money a person can pay to beat it.

I got back to writing fiction early in 2020. I'm putting out a fantasy trilogy this year. Of course, I'd love to be a success as a novelist. So I'm writing to market by doing series, and refining my craft by having as many beta readers as I can find. One of the things that matter to me is making sure that my stories accurately portray economies and the consequences of screwing around with them. To that end, my next - much longer - series is set in individual cities with different systems. I believe that story is the best way to share that sort of information. but it has to be done in a way that doesn't sacrifice the story. This can only happen if the writer isn't coming from a place of ideology. By its nature, ideology is an incomplete and low-resolution image of life. That's why so much recent entertainment has been unpopular. It doesn't satisfy our NEED for a compelling story. And I do think it is a NEED, something around which we organize our brains.

the thing itself doesn't, but putting too much emphasis on it is.

I wonder if Burch even paid attention to her script, seeing how she still spouts the BS it wholly mocked.

No I would say because unlike other entertainment industries videogames, Except CoD, I feel are still going strong

Once more you hit it out of the park!

Y The Last Man has a show coming out. I wonder if it would make a good episode for Out of Frame. I only read the first part so I don't remember too much of it.

1:48 That's For Honor!

I create family friendly hip hop music... I've been creating for 15+ years to see no profit at 31 is pretty embarrassing in some ways because i feel like there should be more money on my side of the table. I need to embrace my talent as profitable but i have no idea how... Still learning i guess

Yes! Such an amazing video! So many people need to watch this an understand the real world!!

Some of if not most of the greatest achievements in the creative fields where born as a result of limitations. Innovation is the child of necessity and what is creativity if not Innovation. Often artists have a need to convey something, whether it be something as grand as their ideal of what justice ought to be, something as personal as a feeling they had when they grandma used to make them chicken soup when they where sick, or anything in between, or something as simple as the beauty of a woman. Art is the innovation born of the need to convey this message, idea, memory, or image to the audience. Monetary needs are just another limitation that an intelligent and ambitious artist ought to see as a challenge to be overcome by creativity. Not always mind you, if the sacrifice is too great for the reward then I would take the side of artistic vision first, especially if the property is already popular, people where drawn to it for a reason. I think this is why properties often fail when they come under new management, the new stewards of the license do not possess a vision that is congruent with the original work, and thus are unable to resonate with those who enjoy it. In which case you have to ask yourself, is your artistic vision more important than the vision of the ones who came before, a true artist will seek to innovate a means to marry those two disparate visions, but many modern creators are not artists, they are ideologues who do not know what true creativity is.

I loved the first two seasons, but some episodes (the ones involving a certain couple) were not that good. Also there's one thing that REALLY bothers me about this show, and it's the fact they portray streamers as 14yo kids, when in reality successful streamers are mostly on their mid 20s and have young-adult audiences; I don't understand where they got the idea that people watch kids play videogames.

thank you for creating this video and awsome content

5:27 and a little before, but... this conflates two problems that are distinct. Pay-to-win is ALWAYS a problem in games. Removing the price tag to paying to win only exacerbates the problem. For this kind of thing to work, the MMO-runners need to make what THEY sell be entirely quality-of-life or content-access stuff, and then make it perfectly legal in-game to trade a currency that is generated only when a customer pays real-world money to create it for in-game currency or items from other players. This keeps the in-game economy functioning as a game-world thing, and only draws real-world money into the in-game economy as a siphon from players who have more stuff in-game than they know what to do with who now can use the real-world currency they traded for to buy those QoL improvements or that new content.

I've learned one thing I need myself at one thing and one thing in particular and master that single thing then make profit for myself and others. Otherwise I'm going to be stuck as a creepy hermit who doesn't give a shit about the world.

Sigh. . . I'm gonna bring up the argument just to spite it. 20:00 Mansplaining to a straw man of a woman who doesn't know what they're talking about. -flinches- DON'T HIT ME I'M TAKING THE PISS

God that Rachel bit really hits hard.

I love your videos keep on keeping

fantastic show...and fantastic commentary on it by FfEE...thanks!

Quick question: Is grinding, is act of doing menial and unproductive tasks to accomplish a goal, good for a game, if the players keep playing? Would it be unjustified to demand that these grinding parts should be removed? Is grinding necessary, in order to delay the players from blitzing the game in one sitting? Is the offer to replace this grinding with a pay wall a bad representation of commerce?

@madogthefirst

2 жыл бұрын

Like most things it is about finding the right balance, and also depending on the game being made. Games like WoW benefit by making it grindy so the players don't just blow though all the new content quickly and now have little reason to come back till 6-12 months later when a new update is ready. Another reasons to have some grind is to make thing not too easily obtainable and boring.

@zirconiumdiamond1416

2 жыл бұрын

Grind is the feeling that you get when you get bored with the main gameplay loop. Presumably, that moment comes at a different moment for everyone, so I am sure it is difficult to remove entirely. A game likely would feel incredibly disjointed if it was all boss battles. You need stuff in between for people to ease into new mechanics and to feel awesome and overpowered, rather than constantly feel tested and on the backfoot. However, if a game is selling you the right to bypass the grind, that is a pretty solid admission that they aren't even trying to get the balance right.

I get the economics (games are expensive) but being able to monetize buy upgrades (by your way to victory) is a spit in the face of gaming in general. In the past such things had to be earned within the game in effect making it those with the most skill succeed regardless of economic status or age in the real world....in essence a real game. Imagine the Olympics if countries could pay to get a head start in a race. Just food for though.