Hey! Make sure you check out Sharath's video over at Building Beautifully here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eIeD0K2tgcSTmps.html

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

If you Melbournians please don't, it's a bloodbath down there.

As someone from Melbourne, something I do appreciate about Sydney's trams is that their accessibility is much better. Melbourne still has a ton of stops without platforms and much of the fleet are older trams with high floors.

@nperceived

9 ай бұрын

I guess that's because Sydney's LRT is far newer while Melbourne still has its legacy tram system.

@kingcoong

9 ай бұрын

It still baffles me how much of a safety hazard Lonsdale St/Spencer St tram stop is. You're standing not even 1 meter gap from the approaching tram.

@Low760

9 ай бұрын

I love the high floor trams. They are quieter and smoother.

@joshporter5422

9 ай бұрын

Sydney’s L1 Dulwich Hill line still requires the driver to deploy a ramp for wheelchair access. Only L2/3 meets DDA requirements.

@RealNotOrrio

9 ай бұрын

@@kingcoong theyre upgrading the one at melbourne central ahead of the metro tunnels opening next year thought the rest need upgrades too

One thing to remember - both Sydney and Melbourne have public transport coverage and service frequency that are the envy of most cities in the US.

@m31tdown

6 ай бұрын

America seems to have a pretty decent public transport system with places like the Big Apple having some of the most extensive train systems out there. Also other smaller cities have an interesting take on light rail. Here, outside Melbourne there is nothing but infrequent buses that run hourly at best.

@JesusManera

5 ай бұрын

@@m31tdown I've been to pretty much every major city in the US (across 44 states). I would say if I had to rank all the US and Australia's public transport systems in one list together, Melbourne & Sydney would easily be in the Top 4. Only NYC is objectively better, while Chicago is roughly equivalent to Melbourne & Sydney. Nowhere else is even close. US cities having 2-3 light rail lines with about 30-40 stations that mostly only cover the "city proper" just doesn't compare to having 16 suburban rail lines with 220+ stations, and that's the case in so many US metro areas, even giant metro areas like Dallas-Fort Worth which have almost double the population of metro Melbourne or Sydney.

@nathanpascas5488

Ай бұрын

yall are so obsessed

Sydney here. I just watched both videos and agree with nearly all points in both videos except the ticketing system. The pricing in Victoria sounds more straightforward; however, if someone from Brisbane visits Sydney, they can get around by tapping their credit card without needing an Opal card. As far as I know, Melbourne requires a Myki card. I have spare myki cards, metro cards, and go cards in my spare wallet, all with dribs and drabs of credit. I hate that.

@kkzm

9 ай бұрын

@JJ-hu4zm I still find it mindblowing that the mobile myki cards expire. And the error message when that happens is confusing

Sydney has the ferry network as part of the public transport network. It is sensational.

@mangoman178

9 ай бұрын

I don’t think it’s that useful for most people but it looks good!

@BenMitro

9 ай бұрын

@@mangoman178 Just look up the stats on trips...

@ourresidentcockney8776

9 ай бұрын

@@mangoman178 plus Melbourne's geography doesn't really lend to a ferry network for public transport. Unless of course we were to suddenly have a few cross-bay services which would almost certainly require car ferries.

@CBM_Walks

9 ай бұрын

@@ourresidentcockney8776 We do have a cross bay passenger service! To Port Arlington, & to Geelong, from Docklands It's private operator but (it was before April 2023) almost same price as day Sat/Sun adult fare or weekday concession on Vline. As PT is now $10 max all day to anywhere, the one way full adult fare is now dearer at $20 (off peak)/$22 ($18 Concession). But I did work out before 2023 I could get to Geelong for about same price as V-line. Now at $20/$22 it's twice as much as the new PT cap, but there's a fully licenced bar & food. (A multipass on the ferry reduces 1 way to equivalent $13.50 per trip. Why would cross-bay in Melb need to have car ferries?; Sydney Harbour doesn't have any except for 1 punt car ferry (18 cars limit) in Paramatta River just outside Sydney Harbour "proper". It can almost as long to drive from some parts of Sydney Harbour/Paramatta River system, as does as from Sorrento to Queenscliff & of course there is car ferry for that anyway.

@Sagealeena

9 ай бұрын

I’ve been looking into what Melbourne could do with a ferry network. We currently have a lot of private providers, but I think they’d need to be incorporated into one payment platform, so you could pay with myki/credit card like other pt. Next improvements would be encouraging more service, synchronised timetables and stopping patterns, and accessible Ferry stops. There are useful ferries, but only if you want to take the direct route they offer, so better integrating with train & tram stops would be great! - Smaller boats are used for Williamstown, Spotswood, Port Melbourne (Westgate & Station Pier), Maribyrnong River, Docklands, Yarra River CBD (multiple locations), and St Kilda. There’s also more river stops, but not sure how useful they are. -Medium sized boats go to Geelong, Portarlington, Williamstown, Docklands, and various locations around the bay. -Big boats are used for Queenscliff - Sorrento and can go to Station Pier. - Giant boats like Spirit of Tasmania and future cruise boats can go to Corio. We could inexpensively incorporate private providers into the network, similarly to busses, by adding their timetables and payments to PTV. Good service would require supplying payment machines, accessible ferry terminals, and some subsidies to provide frequent and consistent service early on. I believe the Westgate Punt and Port Phillip Ferries already receive some small subsidies.

For me traveling from Melbourne to Central cost. The whole Sydney airport to central station then to mid central cost is muuuuch easier than from Tulla to Spencer then out to the suburbs. In Sydney it all kind of just flows where down here it feels so much more stop start. I guess that's just a feeling though.

The point about Opal/contactless fares is that it doesn't matter if it's complicated... you get the best fare automatically.

@ianneill1400

3 ай бұрын

& if you are a senior, its $2.50 for everything!!

6:13 Thank you Sharath! I did wonder what the difference was between trams and light rail, but I guess I've just been too lazy to google it.

@Phonixrmf

5 ай бұрын

I just googled it after watching this and yes, that and light rail also has higher capacity and speed

Congratulations, you're the first person this millennium to speak positively about Myki

I don't like time based ticketing systems. What if an appointment, or delay in transport mode, or other misadventure, takes you outside of that time you selected? You'll need to pay again, and possibly more. Also Sydney does offer using your credit/debit card, or phone/smartwatch payment system to pay for a fare, which is better for visitors and/or once off uses.

@nattapatboon

9 ай бұрын

Totally agree. Paying $5 for traveling a few stops doesn't make sense while Opal's system charges you according how far your travel. Also, I don't buy an idea that Melbourne is better because Myki is much less complicated than Sydney's. Pretty much the rest of the world uses distance-based fares.

@74_pelicans

9 ай бұрын

​@@nattapatboonI mean Sydney charges $3 to go one stop on a tram... Not too different to a $5 pass to go anywhere in Victoria

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

@@nattapatboon Myki is a rubbish overpriced smartcard system.

@RealNotOrrio

9 ай бұрын

@@mjcats2011 if $10 a day to travel almost anywhere in the state is overpriced i dont know what isnt

@nattapatboon

9 ай бұрын

@@74_pelicans Surely it's great that $5 takes you anywhere in the state (as long as the journey takes less than 2 hours) but isn't it ridiculous when a tram ride from Melbourne Central to RMIT costs the same as a train from Southern Cross to Ballarat? Sydney has a daily/weekly capped fare while Melbourne charges you the same regardless of distance.

It is so much nicer to have trams running down the street than buses. I live in Perth now, and buses are so much louder and polluting than trams, especially if you are on a busy road where multiple buses are all in traffic together. A gadget-bahn is now being tested (a trackless 'tram') connecting Scarborough to Stirling station - it would be better for us to put down rails and buy a few trams from the factory in Melbourne.

@mark123655

9 ай бұрын

Electric buses will soon fix some of the pollution and noise issues with diesel buses.

@eddielong8663

9 ай бұрын

I wouldn't be too critical of Perth's network if I lived there. The only disappointment over there is the lack of night-life vibe in the CBD, which will hopefully come with time and population growth anyway. Otherwise, Perth's network is quite impressive for a city of its size and density that low. It's impressive enough for RM Transit to have made a video about it anyway.

I think something with both are forgetting, Sydney also does have night routes for certain routes to some areas. Take for exampla, the 333 that runs from Circular Key to Bondi, that also runs during the night, just with an N in the Route Number. And there is multiple other routes that also do the same thing outside of the regular Night Routes that run along the train lines when trains aren't running.

Sydney has numerous 24/7 bus services plus there are rail replacement buses after midnight every night.....every night.

@ptoomey74

9 ай бұрын

And worst case is that the 'gap' to wait for rail services in Sydney late night is just 4 hours give or take during the week (midnight to 4am) or 2-3 hours weekends (1-1.30am to 4am). If you think about it, Melbourne's Night Network is only giving out an additional 2 to 3 services (Night Network runs hourly for trains, also only Flinders St is serviced, all other city stations close. I've been there only to find out the hard way!

This is very interesting. I have lived in Melbourne for about 6 months and just visited Sydney for the first time every this past weekend, and I felt immensly that the PT was much more impressive in Sydney. The trains and trams are much higher capacity and appeared to be more frequent than Melbourne, and importantly the ride was SOO much smoother! Also had my mind blown by the reversable seat orientation on the trains. And as a tourist, Sydney easily has a better payment system considering they take contactless card payment. However it’s interesting to hear all the point’s you are making as they highlight that as a resident I may not enjoy the system quite as much as I did as a tourist. I do however concur that the spaghetti road design is pretty unappealing.

@ytlurker220

9 ай бұрын

You're lucky they just did a huge amount of work on the tracks a few months ago. The ride was getting a little bumpy on the express intercity trains (makes it a bit hard to use the onboard toilets lol) Also, I think the spaghetti road network is probably more suited to the geography, and apparently more efficient than a grid anyway

@CBM_Walks

9 ай бұрын

@closeben I somewhat disagree re better payment system in Sydney, & partially agree. Yes, can pay with credit card, but fare could be dearer for some* than if use Opal card. (believe it has to be credit company card, can't use just Eftpos). Sydney's Opal minimum top up at machines/counters is $20, tho card is free. Melbourne's Myki minimum top up at machines is just $1, but card is $7. So Sydney's Opal charges aren't convenient for international visitors, plus contactless is subject to exchange rates. Melbourne isn't so much either, but if don't already have Myki & need to do just 1 trip, it'll cost just $8. In Sydney, if don't already have an Opal & need to do just 1 trip, it'll cost $20. There's quite a number of people that don't have a credit card, & Sydney's charges seriously disadvantages some people. *It may also cost some International travelers more than it should. From Sydney Airport Adult Gate Pass for train is $17.00, or $16.68 when using an Opal Card or a contactless payment. Added to rail ticket cost, so to get from Syd Airport & spend a day traveling around city & adjacent you need to pay $37, before getting the train ($17 + $20 loaded to Opal card). From Melbourne/Tullamarine Airport & day in Melb city & adjacent it's $31 max. $21 if stay within CBD & Docklands & use just trams. Melb's cap, & also now Vic's cap, is $10 max per day/$5 concession. Sydney's cap is $16.80/$9.40 concession. Melbourne does have a sort of contactless option. Mobile Myki lets you create a virtual Myki card on an Android phone equipped with Google Pay and NFC. It's not available for iphones tho. Once loaded, you can pay your fare by touching on and off with your phone. Melb re the maximum $10 day cost is winning, but however for $7 more I can travel on as many ferries as I want in a day (except the 'fast ferries') in Syd. Sydney wins re fare cap for seniors & pensioners as just $2.50 cap, but can only get card ('Opal Gold' card) by applying online, & if outside NSW have to complete a form plus upload scan or photocopy of seniors or pension card, 4 weeks prior ahead of when using. For regional NSW concession have to fill in another form. Melb offers the standard concession card for interstate seniors, so at $5 travel cap & with ease of getting immediately, from any staffed station, the $2.50 more is worth the much better convenience. & that $5 gets you anywhere in Vic, now. [Vic Seniors or concession myki is half price @ $3, Victorian Seniors/Pensions do get a free Myki when they're issued Victorian senior or pension card]. By the way, Melb is due to get contactless credit/debit card within couple years, with trials beginning next year in 2024, expanded during 2025, & fully operational by late 2025 or early 2026 at the latest.

@Elitist20

9 ай бұрын

One thing the Sydney Trains system seems to have more of - actual staff on the stations!

@staryoshi06

8 ай бұрын

@@CBM_Walks There's no extra charge for using contactless cards. International visitors who want to avoid volatile exchange rates will probably be using a prepaid card anyway.

@CBM_Walks

8 ай бұрын

@@staryoshi06 I later found isn't dearer for Standard Adult Fare/s. But contactless can only be used for that. While it's logical as to why, concession card holders have to pay full price if use contactless. Yeh, it's not much %, but 5% of Opals issued are concession plus about 2.5% are student concession Opals; plenty of students 18+ . I also realised why it was, effectively, dearer not to use an Opal. Tho fares were same for what could use contactless for, but couldn't use contactless/credit/debit for ferries till late 2017. & not on Sydney buses till Sept 2019 with last 5 Metropolitan regions online from Sept 23. (awesome that can use contactless on buses since tho, not that many tap & go systems offer that). Following is ancient history now (well before 2020 anyway lol) I remember trying to tap with credit card at a (suburban) Ferry Wharf as the Opal didn't have credit, & it wouldn't accept the credit card. There either wasn't a top-up machine or I didn't have $20 (or both). However they do you allow to pay (or did) when arriving at Circular Quay. They should take best of Sydney's fare & tap & go system, best of Melbourne's fare structure & combine. And give Canberra a decent system! lol. Would also be great if didn't need to get a different card (Opal, Myki, GoCard, when in a different city). Eastern States car e-tags can be used on any toll road in those states.

banger video phil as always keep up the awesome work i hope i run into you one day and take a picture with you youre the goat

As someone who has extensively used both networks, overall Sydney's is better when looking at all categories in a more macro view. Within CBD melbourne smokes Sydney with the trams and city layout, but as you start going out of the CBD sydney trains and bus networks are just a cut above. And whilst opal fares may be confusing as, being able to tap my bank card is lovely but with having auto top up on, the fare cost is almost inconsequential as it was just going to be paid anyway. Also surprised to see ZERO mention of the flippy backwardy forwardy seats on sydney trains, goated feature.

@boitmecklyn4995

9 ай бұрын

Sydney charges by distance travelled and not by zones that Melbourne does.

@cityplanner3063

9 ай бұрын

@@boitmecklyn4995yeah but there is a weekly cap of $50 so just said $50 aside for your public transport.

@ktipuss

7 ай бұрын

"flippy backwardy forwardy seats on sydney trains, goated feature". What??? Sydney introduced reversible seats in suburban trains in 1879 and Sydney people took to them like ducks to water. They are actually an American invention and fittingly first saw use in Sydney's American end-platform cars. Transport 4 NSW has rightly been pilloried for introducing non-reversible seats in the "new" D series intercity trains; coming up with all sorts of excuses why they are fitted. These trains have been a public relations disaster, running 4 years behind schedule in their introduction and leaving the time-expired (but still well regarded) V sets in use. That's what happens when you design a train according to ideology instead of passengers' needs. You didn't say which city you are from, but when in Sydney check out which seats in the non-reversible seat Tangara sets fill first; it's ALWAYS the seats facing the direction of travel. BTW, London's trams had reversible seats from 1908 until the close of the System in 1952.

@YoyoZee

7 ай бұрын

@@ktipuss thanks for the longass nothing reply providing me useless information about a fun feature I like, especially when group travelling. Also just a skill issue if you get motion sick sitting on the seat in non travel direction, Tangara is lame and I dislike travelling on it everytime

@ktipuss

7 ай бұрын

@@YoyoZee If you like the reversible seats, why did you call them "a goated feature"? And what's with the "longass" comment? Can I ask you if English is your second language and somehow you have picked up terms which don't make a lot of sense in the context?

Nice colab. Well done guys :-)

When the under construction Sydney Metro and Parramatta light rail projects are open I think Sydney will pretty comfortably win this one as there will likely be a big round of bus reforms coming on the back of this which will push Sydney buses way beyond Melbourne's. If Sydney can close the gaps in the Metro & Train networks (Schofields-Tallawong, Western Sydney Airport-Glenfield, Carlingford-Epping, Bankstown-Liverpool) and get light rail down Parramatta Road I think it will take a LOT for Melbourne to catch up, the SRL will be a big step but there needs to be major bus reform and tram extensions/upgrades (improved speeds) plus electrification to Melton and Wydnham Vale. The 5km from city regions will be edged by Melbourne until Sydney cuts down on cars and gets more light rail and pedestrianised sections, plus a Metro line to Neutral Bay/Mosman/Waringah.

@kyletopfer7818

4 ай бұрын

@@robert-brydson-1 what do you mean by "real estate they demolished which Melbourne kept"? What criteria are you using? Sydney has WAY higher public transport use and will probably increase its lead this year when Sydney Metro and Parramatta Light Rail open.

@kyletopfer7818

4 ай бұрын

@@robert-brydson-1 they don't need to, Sydney has plans to build Metro which is faster and higher capacity. All of the main tramway corridors South of the harbour (Parramatta Road, Oxford Street, ANZAC Parade, City Road) do have plans for eventual return to Light Rail, might take a couple decades and money is a bit tight. Buses do and can do a better job on several of the former tram corridors anyway in many respects.

@robert-brydson-1

4 ай бұрын

and all that time Melbourne is moving forward also @@kyletopfer7818

@mjcats2011

2 ай бұрын

@@robert-brydson-1 Who cares? Sydney's Rail and Bus systems are far superior and they have a large ferry system.

@robert-brydson-1

2 ай бұрын

LOL, the Sydney trolls are out in force. Constantly with this childish competition thing.

I'm from Sydney - we had more trams than Melbourne once - then we got rid of every tram line - only to introduce trams / light rail - 😢 Kudos to Melbourne - your government had much more forward planning than Sydney / Melbourne has an amazing culture that Sydney doesn't - and I think Melbourne is on track to have a higher population than Sydney

@hypercomms2001

9 ай бұрын

It just goes to show that the brains live in Melbourne.... Sydney... all hat, but no cattle!!

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

@@hypercomms2001 Our PT is nowhere near Sydney's when it comes to Buses and Trains.

@kyletopfer7818

9 ай бұрын

It was obviously a mistake to remove many of the main tram corridors in Sydney, no question. They should have reorientated the line or put the central sections in tunnel like Frankfurt or Cologne did with a long-term vision to make full on city train lines. But for that Sydney buses and trams move as many people as Melbourne's buses and trams, and where Sydney really leaps ahead is the trains with 50% more train & Metro ridership in Sydney.

@gore1089

9 ай бұрын

I live in downtown Sydney. 10 years of a lib gov who bought the cheapest garbage from overseas, buses with no suspension. Ferries that can't fit under a bridge and trains that are💩 and unsafe the unions went on strike. Don't ever believe the corp media when they trash the labor governments.. They don't work for the people but for the establishment and vested interests.

@BenMitro

9 ай бұрын

What we need to do is build a very fast train between Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne so that capital to capital takes under 4 hours and costs around $50 per person. Now, THAT would be serving the people as our politicians promise to do and never actually do.

I think the key thing that I take away from having lived in Melbourne and visited Sydney alot is that whilst Melbourne seems to have a more expansive train network and better PT network in the CBD, it lacks urban interconnectivity and frequency compared to Sydney. Also the whole part of using a myki and not your own card is a shame. Granted, the SRL, Metro Tunnel 1 & 2, Airport rail, HCMTs, New myki system which will allow you to use your own card, new low floor tram rolling stock, as well as constant improvements to the Suburban rail network via duplication, removal of level crossings, as well as future extensions, makes me think that Melbourne is very much so looking to address these issues.

@Snoop_Dugg

9 ай бұрын

The trouble is all these things should have been done decades ago, and they are more expensive because it took so long. Many of these things we need asap not in 30 years. Also we really need ETCS, it will allow for much more frequent trains at higher speeds.

@eddielong8663

9 ай бұрын

I wouldn't hold any breaths for a Metro Tunell 2. I don't believe anything has been said about it in the last 3 or so years. As much as I like the SRL concept, I honestly can't believe it's taking priority over not only the Metro 2, but also the Whyndam and Melton lines electrification.

@jackalcrackle

9 ай бұрын

@@Snoop_Dugg I 100% agree, the Lonie report destroyed much of the brilliance the octopus act created

@jackalcrackle

9 ай бұрын

@@eddielong8663 not only that but also the airport rail connection.

Yet both amazing work on both sides of Sydney and Melbourne love your work Mr Mallis

I give it to Sydney overall. Frequency is king, and outside of the tram network, it is more or less nonexistent. Even the tram network has times, especially at night and early on Sundays, where even they don't have a "turn up and go" frequency.

1) @1:12 that's not a fair comparison - Sydney *TRAINS* has 369km and 170 stations, Sydney's rail NETWORK includes Sydney Metro (36km & 11 stations 2 of which are interchanges so 9 additional stations) so a total of 405km & 179 stations compared to Melbourne with also 405km and 219 stations. Same kilometrage, Melbourne has closer station spacing which isn't necessarily an advantage. Let's also include both the projects that are currently already in testing and getting ready to open in both cities - the Metro Tunnel in Melbourne and the City & SW Metro Link in Sydney. Sydney will have an additional 30km and 8 new stations on the City & SW Metro link next year, of which Martin Place + Pitt St + Central + Sydenham are interchange stations so 4 additional stations to the network, bringing Sydney to 435km and 183 stations. Melbourne Metro Tunnel is 9km long and has 5 stations of which Town Hall and State Library are interchange stations so 3 additional stations to the network, bringing Melbourne to 414km and 222 stations. If we add the under-construction SRL East and ignore the two further Sydney Metro projects already under construction (West 24km & 8 additional non-interchange stations, Western Sydney Airport 23km & 5 additional non-interchange stations) Melbourne will have 440km and (with 2 additional stations) a total of 224 stations. Pretty close really. 2) The key really is: speed and frequency of express-running medium-distance trains but also what it allows you to do to inner-to-mid-range parts of the corridor. Because Sydney developed quad (4 tracks) all way out into middle and outer suburbs early on (up to St Marys on T1; up to Hurstville on T4; up to Revesby on T8; up to Rhodes plus another section from West Ryde to Epping on T9; and up to Belmore for separated freight on T3), express running on all main lines for outer-suburban, interurban and intercity trains is simple and easy. Whereas Melbourne only developed triple (3 tracks) into the middle suburbs - and even then only on 3 main lines (Frankstone line to Moorabin along with quad track from South Yarra to Caulfield; Lilydale/Belgrave line to Box Hill; Werribee line from Newport to Werribee). Track speeds within Metro Melbourne are limited to 80kmh where Sydney has many lines with decent track sections of up to 100-115kmh. What this all means is Sydney has regular and (relatively) fast express trains allowing you to get from places 20-30km away from the city like Sutherland, Blacktown, Revesby or Hornsby into the city consistently quicker than equivalent areas in Melbourne, with more flexibility to handle disruptions - and many of these journeys will be shortened further when Sydney Metro opens. But what this also allows Sydney to DO is split inner and outer sections of lines to run different services more suited to different parts of the city: on top of the conversion of the whole T3 to Metro, the inner sections of the T2 T4 T8 and T9 could potentially see a similar conversion to rapid transit with high-capacity high-frequency operations at all inner stops, with suburban inter-urban and intercity services focused purely on the middle and outer suburbs. Melbourne cannot do this without building new lines. 3) @6:18 Melbourne's trams really aren't that special in performance terms, it really is just the coverage and scale of the system. Of the 7 busiest routes in Melbourne (3, 11, 59, 75, 86, 96 and 109) only Route 96, a former heavy rail line, comes close to matching L2 & L3 in Sydney in terms of patronage/km or patronage/stop. None of the Melbourne lines can match Sydney L1 for average speeds, most averaging 15-18kmh with those shared traffic sections causing trams to get stuck in traffic and the schedule to be padded and unreliable, while not many stops have level boarding & disability access. There are also tonnes of missed connections between tram and train at the outer edges of the tram network - the whole tram network is in serious need of a modernization programme like the Level Crossing Removals. 4) Where Melbourne does have an advantage is coverage, there are no major areas of the city as poorly covered by heavy or light rail in Melbourne as in Sydney (Northern Beaches, SE suburbs, outer SW around Bonnyrigg and Wetherill Park) except perhaps Doncaster (which is planned to be linked with Suburban Rail Loop). Another advantage for Melbourne is being able to run its 3 main regional services (Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong lines) on the one Regional Rail Link direct and at quite high speeds, whereas all Sydney's regional trains split up quite close to the city and have comparatively slow speeds, hence why NSW was doing planning on an entirely new High Speed Rail network to Newcastle, Wollongong, Canberra/Southern Highlands and Bathurst/Orange - which again would be difficult to implement without expensive city access lines to meet at Parramatta or Olympic Park.

@74_pelicans

9 ай бұрын

Where did you get the 80km limit from? It's up to 130km. 115km in most sections where you can reach that speed while delivering a stopping service

@74_pelicans

9 ай бұрын

Also can you compare Melbourne and Sydney trams, when one is free in the city. You need to pay in Sydney city, you don't need to in Melbourne. So how can you fairly track patrons?

@ianneill1400

3 ай бұрын

talk to anyone in the Northern beaches & SE Suburbs - they have a great bus service & don't want rail as "it will bring in the RifRaf" !!!

@kyletopfer7818

3 ай бұрын

@@ianneill1400 that might have been true in the boomer Generation, but this appears to be dying out and younger people want a Metro, the council also now Supports a Metro line after intial opposition. I Note too that youll notice Most of the Opposition to a Beaches Line is located in wealthier inner areas Like Mosman, Cremorne, Balgowlah nd Maly whereas outer areas who have to put up with shitty long Bus commutes like Brookvale, Dee Why and Narrabeen want Metro ASAP

@ianneill1400

3 ай бұрын

@@kyletopfer7818 Plenty of friends there & they all are happy with Bus & last thing they want is Metro - I love metro & am near Bella Vista & would love to see one on the Nth Beaches but like the rich & powerful in Bondi Beach, they will keep it out! 😀🤣😂

In Victoria, Public transport is capped at a maximum of $10 for travel anywhere in the state in one day. If you have a concession it is $5 to travel anywhere in the state in a day.

@tobyb6248

9 ай бұрын

pretty expensive if you are only doing a short trip to work and back a day.

@vincentgrinn2665

9 ай бұрын

pretty great compared to nsw where its 19$ cap per day mon-thur, 9$ cap fri-sun and 50$ cap weekly, halfed if youre a child or concession though if youre a senior/pension its a cap of 2.50$ per day which i tell you what was bloody amazing when i had one

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

@@vincentgrinn2665 The only problem with NSW is our government bloddy greedy.. We have 10 trip Max before, so you can Travel as little as 28 per week... Not to mention 2.5 unlimited everywhere in NSW on weekends.. Little by little our money waster government remove it..... Yeah both government as bad as another...

@caylebmladenovic3348

8 ай бұрын

@@vincentgrinn2665 yeah Naha still pretty shit I use too have too okay $10 too go 5 stops to work and back every day through trains. Now in Sydney I’m paying $3 each way for my trip. I also don’t have too but an opal or myki card as I just use my Apple Watch too tap on. Can you guys in Melbourne use your credit or debit card yet? Still behind arnt you

No mention of the greater comfort flowing from more seats facing the direction of travel. Dwell time is an overstated issue in Australia's sprawling cities. In the peak where it matters, people amble onto their train at distant stations then tend to be going to the same city destination where they alight. The opportunities to change for another line before reaching the centre are rare by international standards.

@Prieze868

9 ай бұрын

It may be nice to look at the direction you're going but it's clearly safe to sit backwards going to where you're going because if you stop suddenly you're thrown out the seat people sitting backwards don't

@handyandyaus

9 ай бұрын

@listohan Comfort? You still get there just the same as everybody else!

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

@@Prieze868 Well at least you can choose to either more safe or comfort, and most of all you can choose to flip the chair if the passenger on the back attractive.

@listohan

9 ай бұрын

@@Prieze868 That thought does not seem to trouble airline passengers too much.

@ktipuss

7 ай бұрын

@@Prieze868 That's the most recent excuse that Transport 4 NSW cardiganmen have come up with for putting non-reversible seats in the "new" (4 years delayed) Intercity trains. If forward facing seats are so dangerous, why are half of the seats in these trains forward facing, and why are all the Waratah sets, including the latest being built as recently as 2021, fitted with reversible seats? If a train comes to a very sudden stop, those facing the direction of travel may be pushed into the back of the seat in front which, because it is reversible, is padded. Those with their back to the direction of travel may well be catapulted upward and hit their head on the ceiling.

Sydney, you can tap on and off with your credit card, and a shorter single trip per day is much cheaper in Sydney. Plus, Opal cards live for 9 years vs 2 years for Myki

one thing that both of these videos has made me think about is, just how much information is reasonable to offload to an app or something like for those who have access to it, it shows you where the stops are, when transport comes and arrives, the fastest route there including transfers, the cost, everything you need. which also takes out a lot of confusion from stuff like melbournes mess of a cbd but at the same time if you rely too much on it then anyone without access is screwed

@YoyoZee

9 ай бұрын

to be fair Tripview does everything mentioned but doesn't show cost (at least in Sydney, idk bout melb). The Sydney Opal app can show all its just a bit clunky to use, but you get a pretty decent idea on how expensive a trip will be for a regular commuter, and for visitors the cost is usually not as important as its just a "holiday expense"

@vincentgrinn2665

9 ай бұрын

@@YoyoZee oh yeah i didnt mean creating a new one, i meant there are already apps and sites for it even google maps does a good job of it just meant like is that an excuse for messy routes and poor signage

@YoyoZee

9 ай бұрын

@@vincentgrinn2665 oh I understand the point you were making now, yep you right

As a "Sydneysighter" myself the tram one hits the hardest, considering Sydney used to have a larger tram network than Melbourne in its prime. 6:45 I remember former Prime Minister (and current ambassador to the USA) Kevin Rudd talking about this he said that Sydney was designed by a bunch of drunks. Also worth mentioning on the pro Melbourne side is the accessibility of major sport stadiums, MCG, AAMI Park and Docklands are all very close to major stations, meanwhile in Sydney the SCG requires an interchange at Central (the light rail only came into effect in December 2019) and to get to Sydney Olympic Park requires an interchange at Lidcombe, the very much under construction Sydney Metro West will help with the Olympic park issue but that wont be completed until 2030 at the earliest.

@isaacfung622

9 ай бұрын

There are direct trains between Sydney Olympic Park and Central during events

@ytlurker220

9 ай бұрын

@@isaacfung622 there's also been direct services to Blacktown or Schofields during big events

@strikerbowls791

9 ай бұрын

Trams are ass though. The new metro lines >

Very good guys. 2 great vid's.

While I disagree with many of the supposed "upsides" to Melbourne's system, I'm going to have to _strongly_ disagree with Point 5. While on paper having a grid makes a city easier to navigate, I found the penalty of constant multilane crossings extremely frustrating as a pedestrian when I travelled to Melbourne last year. In contrast, when walking along a Sydney road, you'll probably be walking along an "artery" road with a bunch of much smaller "capillary" roads coming off of it. This not only means crossings are smaller, but also that cars generally are moving a lot slower through them, and also they can go green more often. As a pedestrian, I very much dislike gridded cities and how dominant the car-roadspace is. And yet, even when driving, it's _still_ a massive pain as those roads aren't all bi-directional, so for our day trip out to more regional Victoria me and my friend wasted a good half hour just trying to figure out how to get the rental car to a parking spot near our AirBnB to pick up the rest of our travel mates!

Great collab, two of my favourite Aussie youtubers for public transport. Growing up in Sydney and living in Melbourne for the last 5 years it's good to see the pros and cons on the east coast

Each city has its pro's & cons. In some ways it's like comparing apples & oranges. Hi Sharath!

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

No it isn't Sydney's PT is far superior.

Great videos here and on Sharath's channel. One thing I'll point out about the timetables - Sydney at least has real-time for buses while Melbourne does not (through AnyTrip/NextThere or the Google Maps). At least in Sydney when a service gets cancelled, most of the time we know [except for those uncommon sneaky "real time not available"]. I'd wish Melbourne and other cities can incorporate this, as in Australia especially we coordinate journeys based on the timing that public transport operates. Not as much a turn-up-and-go way.

Hi again Philip! These were a great couple of videos. Of course I preferred your one, because it's about Melbourne, not Sydney ;-) But I would love to hear a follow up dedicated to regional public transport. This was primarily about the urban network, though you did mention the Vline fares. NSW has a pretty interesting looking rail network that I don't know a lot about. But Vic has what I believe is the highest altitude bus service, over the Great Alpine Rd, which can connect Bairnsdale and Wangaratta for a pretty epic and super cheap regional trip. So I'd be interested to hear you and Building Beautifully talk about the pros and cons of either!

Great video. Makes me appreciate Melbourne public transport even more. 👍

@mjcats2011

2 ай бұрын

Really?

As a Sydneysider, I used to um and ah about the merits of Sydney and Melbourne. But since hitting my late 20s I'm firmly in camp Sydney and would happily never visit Melbourne ever again.

Hi Philip, Great video. I was just watching Sharath's video and decided to come over here. I have been living in Melbourne since 1981 and prior to that, I lived in Sydney. Back in 1981, I found that Melbourne's public transport far surpassed that of Sydney. We almost had double deck trains here in Melbourne, but the order was cancelled in around 1992. I was lucky enough to ride the test double deck carriages here on a few occasions prior to them being withdrawn. Love the description of Sydney's octopus designed streets. Talking about bus stops, try catching a bus in Wagga NSW. There are no signs outside of the CBD and when asking a local, I was told, just go up there and it is near the third hole on the left!!! LOL. Amazingly enough, all the Wagga locals seem to know exactly where to wait, despite no signs. Melbourne badly needs good airport public transport links. One idea would be just to extend the Airport West tram line. Of course, an airport rail link would also be great and I believe that is in the planning stage along with other improvements to the rail lines. Anyway, wishing you all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.

Hi Phill, Great video, could you do one one like Vline v NSW Train-link that would be cool to watch

@philipmallis

9 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the idea!

was wondering when this video might be arriving, i commented a while back on transport vlogs video on the sydney airport that you guys should do a colab either with paul or Sharath and paul mentioned something was in the works.

One thing you said wrong, as you took Switzerland with the double decker trains for the Intercity Trains, it came from the slow every stop serving commuter trains - They are all double stock, extensive since in the late 90's.

Ok that’s nice for the inner CBD but what about the many areas around the metro areas where the routes stop and where they should or could be linked ? Like Bourke Rd stops at cotham Rd ?? Or the one in glen iris that could go further and link to others etc etc

The Sydney double deckers are great for the longer routes - and they manage 4 minute headways despite the dwell time issue. But the single deck HCMTs woulld be great for the inner suburban routes - and they are made in Australia.

Love your channel ❤❤❤

@philipmallis

9 ай бұрын

Thanks very much, glad you enjoy it!

The new metro tunnel is going to be great for Melbourne. Helping to remove complexity around your city circle stations. The other thing that needs to be done is a north south tunnel via fishermens bend starting at newport from the south.

Comparing topography, and then you focus on one square kilometre. There are multiple river systems that cut through Sydney making the burbs far more intersting than flat old Melbourne (with all it's railroad crossings), but I digress. It's all those valleys and hills that make greater Sydney infrasctructure a challenge. I'm saying this with a grain of salt in the spirit of the videos guys :) Which I really enjoyed, well done and thankyou both.

@74_pelicans

9 ай бұрын

Maybe come visit 70 rail crossings are gone with 40 more planned to go

@fletch88zz

9 ай бұрын

@@74_pelicans I demand answers! Who told Melbourne about bridges and tunnels?

@mjcats2011

7 ай бұрын

@cherazyzz And it still will fall behind Sydney's. Melbourne's transit will never ever catch up if they continually concentrate on massive infrastructure projects.

Good points but I think Sydney smashes ticketing compared to most cities and it's one of the few cities that will work out your fare based on how far you travel

Melbourne came fairly close to losing its trams, because Liberal Premier Henry Bolte disliked them. He couldn't though because Melbourne's trams were run by a corporation, not the State Government. Bolte did manage to remove trams from Bendigo and Ballarat as they were owned by the State Govt (The State Electricity Commission to be exact).

Can you use the Myki on all vline services or only some?

@TheLostProbe

9 ай бұрын

only some, past a certain distance you need either a physical ticket or an online ticket. this map will help you if you need to specifically know when you'd need a ticket: www.victoriawalks.org.au/Assets/Images/VLine_Train_Coach_Map_contrast.jpg

@HouseholdDog

9 ай бұрын

@@TheLostProbe Cheers, thanks.

@Skasaha_

9 ай бұрын

@@HouseholdDog it is still the same price cap for paper vline tickets, and if you have one you can use it instead of a myki on any other service that day. Just have to pick it up the day before. It's a pain, but if you're travelling regional you're already planning in advance anyway.

Cool videos, yours and Sharath's. After watching them both, I think that my home city of Perth's public transport system is the best in Australia :-)

@tobyb6248

9 ай бұрын

lol

@philipmallis

9 ай бұрын

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

Sydney wins ticketing, with contactless

@everythingisscience658

9 ай бұрын

I went to Melbourne a few years ago and I am reasonably sure I got a tap card to use the light rails outside CBD? Did they change policy recently?

@lavomavo2207

9 ай бұрын

They mean you can tap on with a contactless credit/debit card or phone on Sydney’s network. Both networks have a “tap” card, Opal for Sydney and myki for Melbourne but being able to use the system with a bank card is great for tourists and those without an Opal. Prices and benefits are the same

@listohan

9 ай бұрын

@@lavomavo2207 Except for seniors.

@arokh72

9 ай бұрын

@@lavomavo2207 I live in regional NSW, in an area with no public transport, and as such I don;t have an Opal card. I recently had cause to travel by train from Central to Lithgow, and it was great that all I needed to do was tap my CC and be done with it, not needing to find and purchase, and top up, a card, for this one time use.

@anthonywalsh2164

9 ай бұрын

Yes. Even Brisbane is about to go contactless payment.

I've lived in Melbourne and although the tram network is extensive, it's definitely not a quick way of getting into the city. It's quite slow compared with the trains. Melbourne trains also have less carriages which means less people, more trains running and more congested lines?

Melbourne needs to have belt lines like SRL to enable people to get to more places. It also needs to invest in the West while it has greenfield land available for development. Don’t wait until it’s overdeveloped and then try to put a new line in. The Sunbury trunk is already at Capacity. There should also be extensions to the tram network, with more frequent trams. I hope the next generation trams coming next year have a larger fleet. Block cars from some sections of the road so its tram only. E.g parts of Chapel St. Upgrade signalling to ETCS. Werribee and Sandringham and Sunbury is the perfect place to start. Improve connectivity between regional towns. The current V/Line tracks have too much bends and aren’t maintained enough. We should be able to travel directly from Geelong to Bendigo without going into Melbourne and back. Improve Buses. Bring Double Decker buses for longer routes and have more frequent buses in smaller precincts. 30 minutes for a bus is unacceptable. Have dedicated Bus/Taxi/Tram lanes in more places. It will encourage more ridership.

Sydney trains system much better than Melbourne. I’m from Melbourne and have lived in Sydney for over 10 years. Sydney’s rail infrastructure much more advanced, tracks are good quality and frequency much better. Also no level crossings and the electrification extends intercity (Newcastle, Wollongong, Blue Mountains). Drawback for Sydney is that there are still stair access only at lots of stations (DDA issues). Melbourne stations all have ramp access. Overall, I’d say each system is as good as the other. Melbourne has an awesome tram network that Sydney can not replicate. My conclusion is that Melbourne needs to modernise its rail network, remove all level crossings, the work done so far is excellent. Skyrail throughout the network needs to be completed. And an airport link!

@adammuggleton4107

9 ай бұрын

Forgot the mention Flinders Street station, it’s a dump. Needs modernisation. Can be done with respect to heritage.

@JohnFromAccounting

9 ай бұрын

Heyington station is only accessible using stairs, but it's such a weird one anyway and it's mostly just a station for school children.

One clearly has a death wish!! Go Melbourne! Yet Melbourne not only has the most extensive rail network, but the largest tram network….

@stormblessed2673

9 ай бұрын

clearly the trams are a win for us, but I reckon despite what you say about our train network being more extensive, sydney trains seem more interconnected (not all cbd orientated, more junctions of lines intersecting outside cbd) and a slightly better experience. Hopefully when our metro tunnel comes out, and later suburban rail, our train system will overtake Sydney's

@carisi2k11

9 ай бұрын

except it doesn't on the first point. That just comes down to how things are counted. Melbourne's total is 998km's but Sydney has over 2,000km's and goes all the way to Kiama, Lithgow and Newcastle. The electric network moves over 1 million passengers a day and Melbourne's only does half of that.

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

It is only more extensive because the Old City Rail ceded a lot its network to the newly formed NSW Trans network. When a fair proportion of our Western Suburbs are served by V/Line with average DMU's when Sydney's is served Sydney Metro Victoria is waaaaay behind.

@ytlurker220

9 ай бұрын

@@mjcats2011 what? Intercity services were always considered "intercity" even under CityRail. The only thing that changed was the entities responsible split; Sydney Trains for the city and NSW Trains for intercity - that doesn't change how extensive the network is. Nor would you really consider the intercity lines beyond the city limits in this video, nor do intercity trains somehow provide additional rail coverage of the city (they run on the same tracks).

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

@@ytlurker220 The City Rail network covered Newcastle Blue Mountains and Wollongong as well. Google it.

Does melbourne have school opal cards.

I'm not sure if the bus issues are a real issue anymore. Google maps is so integrated with the public transport system it will figure out all the changes you need to do to get somewhere by using buses. You don't need a timetable, just pop open your phone and click on the stop. It's more accurate anyway since it uses the GPS location for the bus rather than a timetable. Buses always run late so those printed timetables are next to useless. Actually, the most amazing bus stops I've seen are on the bus stops on the Sydney Metro because they use e-ink and update live information every minute or so.

Well Sydney Metro is single-decker trains with multiple doors her car. (Not why Sharath didn't mention that)

One like the one sharrsth said in bus rotes looks likw mine

Can you Pay with credit card in Melbourne ? and can I go to CBD by train from the airport?

@TrebleSketch

9 ай бұрын

Not yet! Tho the company that brought the system to Adelaide is now going to be bringing to Melbourne!

@hugheee_

9 ай бұрын

flog

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

@@TrebleSketch hmm then how the heck it's ticketing system better than Sydney? The only problem with Sydney is our government is greedy as F..

@TrebleSketch

9 ай бұрын

@@anubizz3 think he was trying to say that it's simpler and doesn't really consider how it is paid/interfaces with public usage.

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

@@TrebleSketch like what I said that because our government is greedy as F, we used to have 10 trip limit, so you can pay as little as you travel and $2.5 weekend unlimited travel, free city bus.. Both our government throw that away...

Melbourne has the better public transport system within Melbourne metro area and to and in the regions. By the way Sharath, a tram network is a light grade/non graded light rail system.

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

No it does not. What are you smoking?

@chrismckellar9350

9 ай бұрын

@@mjcats2011 - What it does not?

@mjcats2011

9 ай бұрын

@@chrismckellar9350 Our train network is nowhere near Sydney's and our Bus Network stinks.

Have to agree with the point about timetables at bus stops. NSW (not just Sydney) has much work to do on that. As for the bus corridors through Sydney CBD it's a mess by our current concept of living in Sydney. A lot of longstanding bus routes in Sydney are just former tram routes. Those tram routes would have been run through the CBD based on track alignment and possibly demographic. There would have been no consideration for people with mobility issues and in the late 1800's you really wouldn't have had another option.

I think that you have missed something, you sort of touched on the topic though There's one thing that people like to do and that is to drive to the train station and park the car there... The problem I have found that that in Sydney compared to Melbourne is that in Melbourne, you point your car in the direction of the train station and drive straight there, whereas in Sydney I found that I have to head in the opposite direction for some distance before I can turn around and to get to where I want to go, in this case it was a train station, passing along the way the location where I originally started from.... I can't understand the logic behind it.... Obviously it's not the fault of the public transport system, the roads authority needs to fix this and to get rid of the exits on the right hand side of their British sounding motorways.... Imagine preparing to exit and suddenly realising that your exit is way over to your right! Especially if you are from somewhere else, now you are well on your way to who knows where! It's very daunting if you are from out of town. But there are plenty of people who, for the majority of their lives will only use public transport on rare occasions to get into Melbourne City and will drive to the train station, park the car there and take a train... It's just so easy to do.

Melbourne's shortcomings in PT is frequency and congestion. I love using the trains, trams, and buses but it's simply not time efficient to use especially on the weekend.

Man what a neat channel! As a former Melbourne resident it's real cool seeing the history of the best city in Australia

I would have like a comparison of a Sydney service train vs Melbourne service train journey time to highlight how much longer the dwell times of a 2 level train add to a journey

@tobyb6248

4 ай бұрын

Probably would add some, but the general speed of Sydney's rail network is better than Melbourne.

No mention of the ferry network??????

I grew up in Sydney, have spend 11 years living overseas in Canada, UK, and Germany and the last five years in Melbourne. What can I say but congratulations to Sharath for being so diplomatic and agreeing that Melbourne has positives over Sydney in regard to public transport. I could list point by point where I disagree with Phil and detail why Sydney is superior in almost all aspects, but the clinger is the layout of Melbourne. Yes it is flat and well laid out in nice rectangular pattern but Phil, have you ever visited London, Paris, Rome or any of the INTERESTING cities of the world. They, like Sydney, have character. Sorry Phil, I just can't buy what you are saying but I understand that you have to try and find something good about Melbourne when you are comparing it to a global city like Sydney. What is Melbourne's great advantage over Sydney? That is easy, house prices and rents are cheaper and that makes a big difference for ordinary people.

@boitmecklyn4995

9 ай бұрын

I could never understand the TTC in Toronto.

@eddielong8663

9 ай бұрын

How can one city be "global" and the other not when there's hardly more than a 5% difference in population size? In fact, take the Covid drama out of the equation and Melbourne was well on track to overtake Sydney by around 2030. And despite falling backwards, Melbourne is already back on track to again outpacing Sydney. Not that Melbourne is all that affordable itself admittedly, but there's nothing to be proud of being in a city with an overpriced housing market. In fact, the statistics say it all. Sydney has experienced a recent and possibly now permanent trend where there's more home-grown Sydneysiders moving out than there's other Australians moving in. It's dependent on overseas migration to keep propping it up. But that's the common trend for other big "global" cities across the globe so you can have that one all you like if you really want to qualify for "global" status that badly and to be part of the gang. Melbourne on the other hand of course experienced a very sharp and fleeting outflow of its own during Covid, but that's stopped now, and more and more of those people are returning.

@johngore8096

9 ай бұрын

@@eddielong8663 "Global" refers to city's status and international ranking and not to its population. If it was the latter then Mexico City would be a global city but it is anything but that. The Brand Finance City Index (UK) ranks Sydney in 5th position, as far as overall status, behind London, New York, Paris, and L.A.; a remarkable position given the competition. Melbourne has a very healthy standing of 16th position. Sydney is ranked No.1 as the best city to live in the world and Melbourne in 4th place; truly amazing given all of the developed cities in the world. We are very fortunate to live in Australia.

@johngore8096

9 ай бұрын

@@boitmecklyn4995 Agree. When I lived in Toronto from 1970-75, I was very impressed with the subway as it was a vast improvement on the antiquated Sydney system with its "red-rattler" trains. However, Sydney was improved dramatically over the last few decades, especially with its new automated metro network. Based on what they are building and promised to build after the last NSW State election, it all makes a great deal of sense. Toronto, on the other hand, boggles the mind and seems to be void of any rational thinking and common sense. Line 3 has been closed after only 38 years in service and another line being constructed to take its place. The Sheppard line 4 has been criticized by locals as "a subway to nowhere" or "white elephant." The line 5 Eglington Crosstown LRT is the one which really boggles the mind. Construction started in 2011 but there is still no completion date. The western half is underground so it has all the expense of a rapid transit subway, but the eastern half in above ground on the street and has all limitations of a light rail (tram). The Ontario line looks good on paper but it is too short. It should extend further into the NE to relieve pressure of lines 1 and 2.

@theEddieworld

8 ай бұрын

New york... but also congratulations on being the stereotype of a butthurt sydneysider stuck in the 1980s lmaoo

Sydney is a clear winner for me. I value trains > trams. Sydney wins hands down, no debate. Trams are also just inflexible buses 75% of the time when they share the road with cars in Melbourne. Frequency > total no. of stations. Melbourne frequency is horrendous. More no. of stations in Melbourne is irrelevant when the entire network's only interchanges are in the CBD. Most suburb-to-suburb trips are terribly long because of this. I know Suburban Rail Loop is coming but it's pretty damn dire right now. I'm also not out at 2am enough to worry about lack of early morning service. I value having the flexibility to use a credit card / phone to tap on, Sydney wins hands down. Myki is horrendous. I dislike the pricing in Melbourne, the prices are so criminal that there is no wonder virtually everyone I see is fare evading. Honestly, the one thing Melbourne has done right is the Free Tram Zone to give tourists the illusion of great transport. Under the hood it's pretty woeful.

6:26 Sydney's CBD bus network has gotten so bad in recent years. It started getting worse when they started building the light rail. Before the light rail, I used to work on the edge of the CBD at UTS and could easily and conveniently get into the CBD, buy some music, and get back within my lunch break. These days, the buses do that weird route that passes Hyde Park and isn't very centralized to George Street.

Sydney has better trains and ferries. Melbourne has better trams. Buses are 50/50 but it largely depends on where you live, but I find the frequent electric and hybrid bus services to be enjoyable in Melbourne.

@tobyb6248

9 ай бұрын

Buses are 100% better in Sydney. It’s like comparing Melbourne trams to Sydney’s.

@mjcats2011

7 ай бұрын

Frequent Bus services, where? Most bus routes in Melbourne outside of the Smart Bus is every 30 mins during weekdays and hourly on weekends.

One that was missed is frequency, most train lines in suburban Melbourne are either 10-20 min frequency for most of the day (exceptions being the racecourse line, stony point, Eltham- Hurstbridge & Watergardens to Sunbury). How's Sydney compare?

@CPTE5069

9 ай бұрын

Sydney has greater frequency and suburban connections. Oh the pain of being a Melburnian railhead...

@DanielDiaz-um1xd

9 ай бұрын

@@CPTE5069 I realised that I should have watched both videos st once as I got my answer in Sharath's

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

@@DanielDiaz-um1xd it's a bloodbath isn't it?

@googler-bn1ro

9 ай бұрын

Now they are, before it was always 15-30 mins off peak and 40 mins on other less used lines :/

@CPTE5069

8 ай бұрын

@@anubizz3 huh?

You never mentioned the great Ferry service on Sydney Harbour. I'm from Perth and live in country Victoria so I don't have any biase.

Glad I’m from the 3rd largest Brisbane❤ do we do the same bickering with Perth? lol

@iwenttobunnings7868

9 ай бұрын

You're glad that you live in the worst city in the country? Weird flex

@JamesFFiT

9 ай бұрын

@@iwenttobunnings7868 Nope it’s a good place to live. I would equally live in any of the three!

Omg that’s the thing that I dislike the most about Melbourne - that the city is just a grid. So boring. I love Sydney’s chaotic city centre roads. It just feels so much more organic.

Does it really matter who has the better PT. Both have pretty significant systems with a multitude of types to get people around either city.

@mjcats2011

7 ай бұрын

@@carlosedwin1 Melbourne bashing. Rightly so. Our rail network is average and our buses absolutely stink.

Melbourne has better public transport to sporting/entertainment precincts. The MCG can be accessed via 6 direct lines and two stations as well as several tram stops. Sydney olympic park (currently) only has one line from the south and one station. Moore Park on the far east of Sydney only has light rail access.

Great video. Have often wondered which city's PT would hold up best under expert scrutiny. PS "AFL" is not a sport, it's a competition. Should've said "Aussie rules vs Rugby". Cheers and sorry for being a pedant

Sharath's video looked into public transport for major shopping malls. But which city provides the better public transport access to major hospitals and universities? Which hospitals or university campuses have the best and worse public transport access in each city? Hospitals are major employers often distant from CBDs that need to be staffed 24 hours a day and accommodate large numbers of patients and visitors. Universities have huge student numbers and require a decent sized workforce. They also accommodate visitors, guest lecturers and research participants. Some hospitals and universities have reasonable public transport access. Others are difficult and parking is a challenge. Interested in thoughts on this and ways this could be improved

@tobyb6248

7 күн бұрын

For the top five of unis and hospitals Sydney Unis - 3 served by metro/train with one by light rail and the fifth having light rail open in the next month. Hospitals - 4 by train, one just outside of train catchment (RPA). Melbourne Unis - two are not serviced by train, two are serviced and one (Melb uni) is serviced by enough trams to make it light rail quality (though will have trains soon) Hospitals - all but one are serviced by train So seems Sydney easily wins on uni, but tie on hospitals.

What about Sydneys ferry network..

I know Sydney versus Melbourne is an old rivalry but I think both could learn a little of how to do city transit from looking at Perth and how not to do regional public transport from looking at the rest of WA (or Tamworth where I now live). Another item you may want to look at is why you only need one E-Tag for all Australian toll roads but for every public transport system you need different stored value cards. As a result, I have 5 different cards with over $100 total balance paying 0% interest even though the public transport where I live is a cash only system.

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

Well we have 1 ticketing system in Sydney.. It's called credit card. Some say it can be use in other continent to.

@grahambaker6664

9 ай бұрын

@@anubizz3 Credit card does not work for any concession fares so the primary ticketing system is still Opal

@74_pelicans

9 ай бұрын

​@@anubizz3so why do majority still use the physical card+

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

@@74_pelicans you mean opal? Really? Most People use their phone or credit card this days... There is 0 benefits of using opal this days, unless like Graham say you need to access the concession benefit. Alot of Sydney school children don't even bother to pay for bus and trams anyway.

@peepeetrain8755

9 ай бұрын

if you use opal frequently, you can get a weekly cap. otherwise on credit card you'll keep paying@@anubizz3

Was yelling dwell time, dwell time at the screen there for a minute. 🙂

I remember in the 2000s until the early 2010s maybe Sydney trains used to run 24/7 (even at 2am you could catch an inter city train every hour) but that's no longer a thing. You don't want to travel between Parramatta and the CBD after a night of partying because the bus ride will take 1.5 hours and almost no one lives close to a train station which means you'll need to walk an additional 15-30 minutes to get home and you'll be dead by the time you get home

@EpicCorn0

9 ай бұрын

I don't know about the other lines but I've caught several late night trains at 1am-2am on the T4 line this year

@ptoomey74

9 ай бұрын

Intercity trains still run 24/7 but that's relative given they are not frequent late night anyway.

@ptoomey74

9 ай бұрын

​@@EpicCorn0yeah Friday and Saturday night they usually run until 1.30am ish on most lines. Funny thing about saying Melbourne Night Network wins because it only runs Friday and Saturday night whilst Sydney late night services run 7 days. Also try getting a route 1 tram at 1am on Friday night... Night Network isn't every tram line and Sunday morning services on routes that aren't Night Network don't start until 7am! Most of Sydney transport starts around 4am every day of the year.

@gore1089

9 ай бұрын

Sydney was killed in 2014..by incoming lnp and lockouts. That's before ( lockdowns ) Nightlife vanished along with young people, who went OS or Melbourne. Sydney now considered the dullest.. Nightlife in the world. So..no need for p-transport if you can't get a sit down cuppa☕ coffee in downtown after 5 pm.

@oufukubinta

9 ай бұрын

@@EpicCorn0 Forget about going to Parramatta though "Sydney's second CBD" LMAO what a joke

“Melbourne train carriages cannot carry as many people as Sydney train carriages” isn’t the positive that you think is

@TheLostProbe

3 ай бұрын

it is though lol

Sadly it does pain me to say as Sydney's one does seem to be slightly better in frequency and decentralization... EVEN IF it Melbourninas are far closer to a train then Sydney siders However we have to end something back to them I guess... We have F1 GP, Australian open, grand final, Melbourne cup etc.. etc... LOL

@tobyb6248

9 ай бұрын

Are Melbournites really closer to stations? Sydney has such intense residential development around its train station network, so would be interesting to see how many people live in each catchment.

@jack2453

9 ай бұрын

Don't worry, we can live wthout the circuses.

@icascone

9 ай бұрын

@@tobyb6248 Go to 1:29 into the video and this video is well researched as matter of fact they both are...

I have been living in Germany, for almost 2 years, and used D-tikcet to visit almost each single city of Germany (over 40 different stadts) , some of them twice or trice or even more. I have lived in Leipzig, city of 570k people and visited Berlin 11 times with population of nearly 1.7 million, and used only and only Regional and Local trams and buses with the famous D-Ticket. I am planning for the second migration to Australia especially Melbourne Victoria, as many of my freinds suggest. the only think I am concerned is that ease of use of Public Transport be the same of somehow equivalent down under. I have heard that with no Car, it is impossible to live in Australia, however with the kind of videos like this, I am geting more of the Berlin vibe. Anybody with the actual experinece of living in europe and australia would help me a lot regardingthis dilemma. I know Duetsche Bahn is the joke of the forums in Germany with Verspatung and delays and cancellations and strikes, however it is verry easy to live only with Public transport here in Germany

@tobyb6248

2 ай бұрын

If you live in inner city Melbourne or City, it is fine to get around without a car.

Sydney used to have 24 hour trains when we used to have a nightlife. Maybe that's why we used to have an amazing night life. They stopped this because there was violence on the trains, and of course, cutbacks.

this feels like a question nobody ever asked

What I've found better in Melbourne was more it's active transport and trams. Never had a big problem riding bicycles in Melbourne - thanks to it's grid network I had an easier time finding a quiet side street to bypass busier ones, and they've invested a lot in segregated cycling lanes too. I feel Sydney (even in the Inner West + CBD) still has a lot of catching up in that regard, thanks to its road network not being conductive to providing alternate routes. (Not putting cycling lanes along George Street - the one street that can access all of Sydney's CBD - was a mistake.) Frequencies of buses and trains, however, Sydney (or at least outside of the outer suburbs and Northern Beaches) wins by a good margin.

Great video Philip. Maybe the people whinge about Melbournes public transport system should watch this. Now time to watch the opposing argument.

@mjcats2011

5 ай бұрын

If you think that Melbourne's Public Transport is better than Sydney's then you are dreaming.

I loved Melbourne’s pedestrian crossing signalling system. A much better system for pedestrians (staying green 80%of time) than what we have in Sydney (only stays green for 50% of total time).

@ktipuss

7 ай бұрын

Sydney's green pedestrian signal time is much less than that. It can be just 10 seconds of green followed by 70 seconds of red. NSW's roads bureaucrats dislikes anything which gets in the way of cars.

I USED TO GK TO BEECROFT FOR SCHOOM WHAT MEMORIES, LOVE MELBOURNE NKT FKR TRABSPIRT FOR MELBOURNE STORM

I appreciated the Metcard gag. Har har.

I think Brisbane takes the cake for spaghetti road layouts

You can use your iPhone for Sydney PT tickets can’t you? I’d say that’s a big advantage over Melbourne for ticketing where only Android is supported at the moment.

Disagree with ticketing. NSW can use opal, credit/debit cards. Also, disagree about double decker trains. It would add a few seconds at most.

0:13 as a Sydneysider, I agree.

Flagstaff station in Melbourne closes on Sundays? How dare they

@TheLostProbe

3 ай бұрын

Flagstaff hasn't done that for years

Look I’m all honesty I believe that Melbourne has probably the better PT system although we do need to improve on trans (frequency in particular)

@tobyb6248

9 ай бұрын

Drastically. And better non CBD centric routes and connections - both something Sydney definitely does better

@anubizz3

9 ай бұрын

Do you even watch the other video?

@JohnFromAccounting

9 ай бұрын

North-South coverage with trams is remarkably poor compared to how easy it would be to make it good. There are so many high traffic straight roads that go north to south that have bus routes, but no trams.

@mjcats2011

8 ай бұрын

Well being a Melburnian I have to disagree. Sydney's Rail Network is far superior and our Bus Network absolutely stinks.

I am In Sydney, Well i'm not from Sydney, I was from Norway, i was born in Bergen in Norway. But Trams in Sydney are not going further to other places like sydney which use to have the Biggest Tram System. Then Melbourne Beat Sydney in the 1960s. But in Manchester where i went to before i came to Sydney, The Metrolink originally Convert Old Railways. Having a Light Rail, or Tram Line of Converting Old Railways that Close before Construction is very Easy and Doesn't take Long.

Id say its a mixed bag. As both cities have strong and weak points. Eg bus priority and suburban bus frequency is better in Sydney. But Melbourne's innercity transport is easier to use with frequent trams on many roads. However both cities leave room for improvement and unfortunately both states suffer from deaf governments.