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@X862go

3 ай бұрын

With the rog Ally, I wouldn't lock myself into gamepass TBH. They already said that they will fo a Rog Ally 2 like they do laptops. I don't think they will launch the hardware. They will outsource it.

I was worried clicking that this would be an April Fool’s joke 😂 Very glad it wasn’t!

When Bill said Cary was manifesting things into existence I thought they were gonna talk about the Win Mini with VRR

I think the timestamp for the Orange Pi Neo needs to start @32:45.

@ninjason57

3 ай бұрын

You are correct

35:40 Seems like you're just making up letters lol 😂😂😂 I really needed that laugh this morning 🤣🌄

Great watch. I’m very excited to see what comes of the Xbox Handheld. I love the Steam Deck OLED. Would be great if they collaborate

@31:11, what if the dock has hardware in it? You take the handheld on the go and have the limited but portable scaled down console- but the moment you dock. Your handheld connects to other "half of itself" dawns that overshield and play full power console big tv gaming

great episode!!! very easy to digest

@10:37 "But if they can make a windows handheld that also gives you that xbox experience (by updating the xbox app to still feel like that) BUT then i also have access to my steam library, then thats like double the handheld right there because not only can i play all the games i purchased from microsoft and xbox and all that over the years BUT all my steam library too! And i'd love to have both of those, like i want my cake and eat it too" Me too! I've been waiting to get back into Xbox since they made all games day on date with pc, so this would be a pretty easy way to get me back into the platform. I can't afford to spend much on a pc, i've been using my Steam Deck as my desktop dualbooting windows 11. I imagine this device would be a pretty decent upgrade, and have the benefit of a wealth of xbox titles (xbox original and 360 for instance). I'd be there day one if they can make this happen.

Great video team. Hope you feel better soon Cary; you still brought it!

I'm a Linux backer so I will be picking up the pi neo, it will do better with those chips better then Windows devices ever could. I just hope that Steam can/will be willing to help manjaro with the controller portion.

Cary makes a very good point on his choice for a xbox handheld.

I used to have a Windows handheld with a portrait mode screen that was tilted sideways and some older games have a problem with that but the one that surprised me was Borderlands 3, a fairly new game. If I ran the game in full screen, it would render at the native resolution but then rotate it 90° and then squish and stretch the image from portrait aspect ratio into landscape where everything looked short and wide. Turns out I had to run it borderless window to get it to render correctly.

@Spencerwalker21

3 ай бұрын

Even my steam deck will go bonkers. I recently docked my deck all that happened was something reved the fans like crazy and immediately stopped. I switched the HDMI cable and boom a 180 degree tulted upsidedown display 😅

I would consider buying an Xbox handheld, though I would debate myself heavily. i bought both the series x and ps5 a few months after launch(ps5 took longet, but got lucky on both) and I honestly don't use my Xbox that much. I just prefer the playstation for whatever reason. I loved the idea of game pass and thought I'd use it more but I don't. Also, learned this weekend that you can install Moonlight on Xbox from the Microsoft store, learning that I may actually put some more time on my X for playing in other rooms cause of noise or whatever. Though my steam deck is easier to do for that than moving a console around. Thanks for the show again fellas! Always enjoy your content 👏👏

Great show! Though your timestamps are a lil off.

26:22 Don't forget the sony ps exclusives that are in the steam store If Xbox is able to bring a steam store in xbox consoles We will be able to play ps exclusives indirect way

Super fun episode today. Max Payne 1 and 2 still holds up amazingly well today I think. I replayed them a few years back and had an absolute blast, I would regard Max Payne 2 on the same level as F.E.A.R 1 in terms of pure fun gameplay. I've just started playing Resident Evil Revelations 2 and having fun. Been thinking about starting Horizon Zero Dawn sometimes soon aswell.

My thing is this. As cool as a Xbox handheld sound's Im still asking my self the same question, why would I need a Xbox handheld if can do the same thing if not better on my Rog Ally or any other windows handheld?

@SteMcGovern

3 ай бұрын

Because it would (theoretically) be running a proprietary Xbox/Windows OS that would be far smoother than Windows currently runs on handhelds. For me, that's why I prefer the Steam Deck to every other device.

My personal reason why im not buying xbox is: price of games. Yes they are optimized and run great but dam…its so closed up in their ecosystem. Im more then sure they able to make a fantastic handheld but there is no way im going back to xbox when i can get same games in steam for a quarter of their price…

@applehazeva2739

3 ай бұрын

Thats why I buy my Xbox Games from Turkey and Argentina. Much better pricing. Even other Steam many times. Got Baldurs Gate from Egypt for like 13€

@Archate

3 ай бұрын

@@applehazeva2739 fair enough but cant be bothered

@Auridian

3 ай бұрын

@@applehazeva2739This method of changing the country to buy and play on the PC is a lot of work, it's better to pirate it all at once. Even on console I don't see how this would be worth it. I pay for games for convenience and accessibility (and price is important to have access to the media). If the platform doesn't offer this, it doesn't deserve my money. And going to great lengths to gain access is even more heinous.

@X862go

3 ай бұрын

Same I'm not getting locked back in .

@skycloud4802

3 ай бұрын

It's in part why I went to pc in the very first place.

I liked the concept of game pass but I’m struggling with getting locked into another subscription. With free epic games and dirt cheap steam sale games it’s better to build a library through those if you are patient.

I loved the Max Payne series. The 1st game came out when I was in elementary school. I loved them because my dad played them and he let me play them (even though he probably shouldn't have since they were pretty violent but I turned out fine lol). 3 was a solid ending although pretty sad to see Max in that phase of his life where he has nobody really. So glad to hear that there are going to be Max Payne remakes for 1 & 2. Hopefully they turn out great. But, just a little tangent, the Max Payne movie, just forget that it ever existed. If you never knew it existed, then you're lucky lol

I loved Max Payne 1, but especially 2. I got a Acer laptop for College around 2005 which had an ATI x800 in it. Man, that game blew me away back then. So I’m excited to reexperience it, big time.

I have a M1 Ultra MBP @ 32GB… it flies through EVERYTHING like butter. Even a 50GB video project. Melted Butter.

Love the comment from Phawx about the 3s1p vs 2s1p (different voltages) and Bill asking "why do i give a damn?" with Phawx giving up and saying "you don't" :D

If they move forward with this, it would be nice if they reinvigorated the fps boost project and finished up the xbox,360 library,one libraries

Game Pass would make an Xbox handheld worthwhile imo. A lot of games on there, Vampire Survivors, Tunic for example. That I probably wouldn't play on the console but would be absolutely perfect on a handheld (as I play them currently there on Steam Deck). I imagine with Game Pass ultimate a handheld could be subsidised with a 24 month sub (like the Series S was). As always though, Windows as an OS is the barrier. I worry they would put an iteration of the Console XboxOS on one. And therefore have it locked down to UWP apps and the xbox store. Phil's comments give me hope that they would be making it an Xbox handheld PC! Rather than a handheld xbox. Significant difference there imo. BUT, a Windows 11 Gaming Edition that is stripped down and optimised for handheld navigation, loading in to something like the Xbox PC app natively (as Phil said) would be great. If you could install other stores that would be great. But if not, and it could be dual booted on to something like the SteamDeck. I'd happily switch between that and SteamOS depending where/what I wanted to play. And that would allow others to worry about the hardware. Don't sleep on the Cloud Gaming benefits of GamePass (in addition to natively installed games)

As for what Russ was saying. Microsoft, could simply just make the xbox app the defualt launcher for windows handhelds, and grant more access between their console and pc library. This would be a much easier route and allow users to boot out of the app to full blown windows for other launchers

I bought a bunch of games on my Switch during the recent Easter sale. - Persona 3 Portable - Dark Deity - Cris Tales - Inertial Drift - Godstrike - Void Scrappers My weekends are busy for the next 4-5 months, guys lol

15:30 I think in this case, the benefit would be to increase your install base. Getting more Gamepass boxes to people that want to play their PC library while sitting on a couch or playing them while laying down on their beds, etc. Microsoft has been focused on selling convenience lately, and if we just look at Nintendo, we know that selling convenience works. If they manage to make this console be sold for profit (I dont know if the current ones are being sold at a loss or not), they would see the same effect of Nintendo selling many consoles to a single house.

I also picked up fallen order !! Great pick up lol

13:00 this exactly

the problem with sleap mode in windows was explained in a linus tectips video a wile ago, has to do with the amount of bios an vendros and chips tha windows runs on. as for the ally 4 out of 5 games i can pres the power button, and then resumen playing no problem, the problem is with games that are alweis concted to a server (diablos) the rest of games tend to sleap and resume well

Hi, did you tried Palia?

A handheld xbox and a handheld PS, but with lower specs as the houshold machine. And the handhelds also work as a standalone device, so that a family /friends can multiplay on the big screen. But I don't think either xbox or Ps is going to allow 3party software like steam on em.

The other stores thing is interesting. Is Microsoft willing to give up it's 30% cut to compete against other stores on the xbox consoles and handheld.

I'd prefer if they further developed Windows and optimised it for handhelds.

Would Valve/or Microsoft make a special controller like a Steam Controller 2 to work with the new Steam store? Or would you just have to hook up a keyboard and mouse to play games that are better with those controls? I'd imagine Microsoft will have to make a universal compatible controller if they allow all the stores onto the platform. That would be amazing. Steam type controller that works with everything.

I don't think the video volume is loud enough. Maybe you need to up the volume and use a limiter.

Damn Cary looked quite annoyed when Bill was badgering him about the battery difference 😂

@NerdNest

3 ай бұрын

I was badgering Cary? News to me.

@jays0n57

3 ай бұрын

@@NerdNest maybe badgering wasn’t the right word… but you cannot watch that back and tell me he wasn’t annoyed. Not a big deal. People get on other peoples nerves sometimes. It happens lol I found it to be funny

My short answer is yes. An XBox handheld could do very well, being linked to Game Pass and having the best version of Windows for gaming is a huge plus for many. As for Steam on Xbox it could also be GREAT! Imagine a little Series S with Steam. The perfect partner for a Steam Deck. I don't think it is a bad idea, it would stop many from buying another console, sure, it dilutes some of their store sales but it also takes sales away from Sony and Nintendo as it makes the Xbox a very attractive option to the many people who have lots of Steam and Epic games. Finally Ryujinx is great! Very good emulator and works great on Steam Deck.

If I was the PM of Xbox handheld with high budget，I would create 2 sets of original testing environment, 1 for X86 based set running lean but original windows, 1 for ARM based set running WOA. Release them to top 100 game studio on Xbox, let them try & see the overall performance.

I understood at least 60% of what the Phawx was saying. I am learning. Who would have thought.

handhelds are the future i barely use my gaming pc anymore, i sunk a lot of money into it and its a beast. however i barely use it since i got my steam deck. i wish steam would do a game pass type of subscriotion thing, now that would be awesome

I’ve done the work around for gamepass to work on my 512gb deck

When mentioning that hardware support for controls has to be better, I think Valve is partially to blame. They could develop a steam input hardware SDK that allows manufacturers to develop hardware to interface and be compatible directly with steam input support. A huge drawback for 3rd party controllers that have gyro support, is that you are limited to the manufacturer's implementation of emulating gyro input as joystick output. Same thing for back/macro buttons. They are forced to emulate Xbox 360 controller buttons just to get supported by most games. Hardware steam input support is a great solution that Valve has been dragging on. The best solution would be an open controller SDK that manufacturers agree on, but Microsoft doesn't care about gaming on Windows otherwise they would have a better handheld/tablet PC interface that has native controller navigation support. The steam controller was revolutionary, and a steam controller 2 would be nice, but we don't need it if we have an open controller hardware SDK for steam input.

Whoever wants a device locked into one provider when you can have them all on one device?

No, it can't. But I'm going to have both.

XboxOS runs everything on Hyper-V VMs. Perhaps other stores and any Windows softwares would require addition of another image. Cancelled Windows 10X was going to do that in order to run Win32 software. Also Microsoft could charge for it

It's possible that a purchased game from another store like Epic on an xbox would split the cut between the two e.g. each get 12%. Still less than Steam's 30%.

If Microsoft play there cards right and take notes from steam deck and rog ally and others handheld Sony will be in a trouble

Max Payne was on Xbox og as well great game

Steam Deck is a niche product, for Microsoft they need to ship tens of millions of handheld consoles to make it viable. Valve never planned to ship 10+ million Steam Deck in a year or two. The question is Xbox can compete against the Nintendo Switch 2.

@NerdNest

3 ай бұрын

But what about nephews? Are they not allowed? Just kidding, but you do bring up a good point

the real question is what would battery life be like on and xbox handheld? It would need to be steam deck like for me to want to switch from my ally

@Spencerwalker21

3 ай бұрын

If I had to guess it'll be between the LCD and OLED deck.

Is the PS Portal is a portable i have an PC portable.

I wish Windows would just add a BigPicture mode that looks and functions like XboxOS. It would benefit handheld gamers as well as gamers who just use their PC for gaming who don’t want to see the Windows desktop. I would like to boot up my gaming pc and not even touch a mouse/keyboard.

What people aren't getting is that Microsoft can go the Apple route and go with ARM architecture + translation/compatibility layer. Intel apps run basically seamlessly on the Apple Silicon Macs. If Microsoft could figure that out, it would be a game-changer ARM-based handhelds and consoles; just imagine having all of the current Xbox library on Series X natively play on their handheld. It would also mean great battery life compared to these 2-3 hour battery life handhelds, like Steam Deck and ROG Ally.

instead of a dedicated handheld, they should make a streaming device like the Portal but for PC

It has long been speculated that Orange Pi makes things work financially through (Chinese) government grants. That, and not properly doing the software part. (That's about their established market of SBCs or Raspberry pi competitors.)

Aye yo! Have you heard JSAUX is launching a kickstarter for their own gaming handheld??!! Oh boy!!

@c4sualcycl0ps48

3 ай бұрын

Check the date…

The current generation of kids grew up with phones more than a tv and game system. I dont thinkthe traditional console model works goong forward. A think handhelds are going to be very important for both sony and xbox inthe next generation.

Best discussion panel for retro, industry news, emulation, games played, THE best handheld updates, a lot more! Man thank you Bill for putting this together, and keeping this going, please keep it real, alive, and fruitful as you are doing! You truly rock this scene!

@NerdNest

3 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

why no mention of stellar blade demo? you guys not gonna play it?

@NerdNest

3 ай бұрын

I’m not really interested in it.

I'm still happy with my Steam Deck, in the future when it can't play the games I want to play, I'll just play or stream from a gaming pc 😊

@FilipOrekhov

3 ай бұрын

I do that currently with Dragons Dogma 2, works very well!👍

The problem with subsidizing hardware is in the past if I bought an Xbox the expectation was then I would buy games for the Xbox but if now I just play fortnite or Roblox I'm not buying any games on the Xbox so it makes sense that subsidizing hardware is going to get harder going forward because people are in these closed ecosystems

i would buy one but wats it got offer we have everything on steam

I'm thinking Steam would be open to selling their games on Xbox with a fair split of the commission of sale between steam and xbox. Because Steam games right now are only selling on steam . That means there are customers on the table and no company wants to leave customers on the table. It would be beneficial for both parties.

Being a fan of both playstation and xbox, the gamer in me would want antual ps handheld because of sony's psp, vita and portal. However, the consumer in me would prefer an xbox handheld, because i feel microsoft would be a more consumer-friendly/conscious company. Looking forward to the orange pi handheld.

I don’t see how it could be without utilizing Steam. Which brings us full circle back to the Deck being the best Steam handheld. The one thing I worry about with Microsoft supposedly getting into the handheld PC game, is if they’d do something shady like change / add a license requirement for DirectX support that prohibits VM use. If the way Proton emulates the platform was no longer allowed, that would essentially end the SteamDeck since it’s basically a Windows / DirectX API virtual machine platform. Time will tell.

@retro_ed746

3 ай бұрын

Proton is translation layer. Nothing to do with emulation.

I’d be excited if the Xbox handheld could run Xbox games natively to use as a retro machine, but the only place I’ll be buying games for the foreseeable future is Steam. Being able to family share is just a huge new selling point for me.

Nintendo just announced the Virtual Boy Pro! /s

I think an xbox handheld would be more impactful for the brand than you think. Especially when you can download the games and have the most seamless experience possible for them. Right now all most people can do is stream it mobile and it’s not very good. If it’s $350 for a downloadable gamepass subsidized handheld it will do very well.

Most of the games I play on my ROG Ally are from Gamepass so I would 100% be a huge fan of a Xbox handheld.

I disagree with Russ… the Kun trackpads are incredibly handy. Not used for gameplay, but when the controller drops it’s an easy way to use the cursor.

Xbox OS would be absolutely amazing. If they got the steam stores and epic game store on Xbox wouldn’t it mess up the eco system such as friends, achievements? I don’t know how they would do it.

I feel like Msoft would want other stores to be on their Xbox handheld only if they are sure that their offer is at least twice as good as the others. To me, Game Pass is super good and in the future it will be almost impossible to compete with it. Also it would show devs that this handheld covers all of the PC store-fronts, so its worth optimising their games for this hardware. This is very interesting how Msoft is going play it out. I also wonder if there is any way for Game Pass to come to the Steam Deck.

The FF7 mini games, man. I could've done without ANY of them honestly.

Xbox could easily do what Sony should have done. Release a £200 streaming tablet. Allow games to be streamed from your home console AND the cloud. Have built in media apps and web browser. Have TV out / dock so you can play on your TV. A streaming device like that could be the cheapest entry into the xbox ecosystem. I love my Portal, but Sony should have done more with it.

I mean its gonna have a lot more advertisment than steam deck when ever steam deck fans like it or not the product will reach more main stream thanks to the brand alone and it being in more stores.

One of the best things of the Steam Deck is Steam Input. I use the trackpads on my Steam Deck for playing FPS. It's a small learning curve and a bit of tweaking, but when it you get it setup right and it clicks, you'll never, ever want to play a FPS with the right stick again! I played through the Metro trilogy like this, What I am trying to say: one of the best things of the Steam Deck is Steam Input. The amount of CUSTOMISABLE inputs is insane! I absolutely love it! Another great thing is Valve's proton and game support. I am playing Elden Ring on my PS4 Pro and my Steam Deck. I made custom settings for my Steam Deck (Mix of high, medium and low settings, and 1152x768 something resolution - which looks great on The Deck BTW) and the FPS NEVER dips below 30 FPS! The FPS line in GameScope is like a ruler. My PS4 Pro looks sharper on a 40" TV but it has annoying micro stuttering, the draw distance is shorter and it ahs more popup (although that is quite hard to spot). I prefer the Steam Deck even if it looks softer on big TV. Edit: I played Max Payne on PC. What an experience that was! Funny thing... I went into the metro tunnels and one of the gangsters had the same ring tone (Brave Scotland if I remember right) that I had on my Nokia. I went checking my phone to see if someone was calling me! :D

If the xbox handheld has same optimisation like series s then yes it does have a chance.problem with most handheld are they are running on windows

Microsoft does not have $3T that is how much the entire company is estimated worth. Last I checked, they had over $120B in cash, though I am not sure how much that changed with the Activision purchase.

If Xbox allows other game stores it will be for sure in the same way like apple does with ios, which making it uninteresting for most game stores, cause they have to pay back apple a lot. But overall it seems just like phil spencer was talking about ideas which will never happen. In the end other game stores also make no sense on the xbox... it would turn the xbox console experience into an open pc experience, and I don't think phil spencer wants that. Futhermore the alternative game stores and the games must be adjusted to the xbox. Or who will guarantee that the games from alternative game stores will be running?

Xbox Handheld with Gamepass, im all up for that

How many times did Russ say XBOK?

Cant wait for xbox handheld console ,❤❤

if xbox make a handheld I would pick one up I think its time they make one we need a xbox handheld we had two from playstation now its time xbox get it own handheld...

Yeah an Xbox handheld would absolutely compete . xbox is known , the xbox ui on a hand held would actually be nice . Now i really hope its just windows with a good gaming UI but i doubt that part

Come to listen to some gamin' chat; stay to watch Russ hide his constant yawning. Heh. Thanks for the episode guys.

I’d rather see Steam on Xbox and the games I have (on Steam) optimized for that hardware I’d buy a SeriesX in a heartbeat in that case

I think Microsoft will to do a good user interface for gamming on handhelds, after that, they will succeed. The device you use is not a worry for them, as they as you use windows. They are buying a huge ammount of game studios and they can put whatever they want on their game pass. This is really sad if you are willing to use an anternative operating system (more options should be better for the end user), but market has spoken, and they preffer monopoly in the game land

I don't see the appeal when all I have to do is xbox app/gamepass & remote play on a better internet connection. Am I missing something here. Now if it could load the games into the handheld; now ur talking.

On Switch emulation, I think Bill is really misunderstanding the issue. There is no "gray area" with respect to getting paid for emulation. The US courts ruled IN FAVOR of the Bleem! Dreamcast/PS1 emulator, which was literally sold at EB Games (precursor to Gamestop) as a boxed retail product during the active life of the PS1. Nintendo is just against emulation. They don't want a piece of the money, they want to shut it down. Of course having a successful Patreon draws Nintendo's attention/ire, but it's not the linchpin issue that makes it OK or not OK. Developing Yuzu or any other emulator is not a DMCA violation, Yuzu did not distribute any copyrighted Nintendo material or break Switch DRM measures (which can be a legal gray area). People really need to be unambiguous about this. Nintendo is against emulation period. We need to back up and fully support emulator developers.

I don't even have to watch the full video (but I will!) to make the argument that for me its entirely the operating system. WIndows on mobile absolutely sucks. I have both an ROG ally and a Steam Deck OLED and the OLED's user experience is 1000x better than the Ally in every way shape and form. If an Xbox handheld just ends up using windows, its going to suffer from the same issues that people have with the Ally. If it has some sort of xbox based user interface, then there may be hope, but then it just comes down to the hardware for me. But at this point, I highly doubt I'd by a third handheld device.

@nathanjuan6042

3 ай бұрын

I don't have any issues with my Ally though. Maybe it's your first experience with Windows, or you're just biased. Operating an Ally is like using any other Windows computer; heck, even a 10-year-old can use it. I own a PS Vita, Switch, and PS5, and I have the same gaming experience when playing with my Ally. The limitations on the deck are 100 times more problematic for me. Perhaps some people are okay with weak hardware and playing at 800p resolution; however, I don't like to limit myself with games, platforms, lower screen resolution, and weaker hardware.

@Kinjara

3 ай бұрын

@@nathanjuan6042 Its not at all like operating any other windows computer if youre using it exclusively mobile. If I plug in a keyboard and mouse sure, but that isnt my point at all.

If it can play my console games.Yes. I have 140+ and would buy in a second to go handheld. If it's a simple PC, MS kind of late to the game, I'll keep my steamdeck.

I think it’s obvious what Phil Spencer is getting at. He is saying Windows isn’t a great experience for Xbox gamers. He is saying subsidizing console hardware doesn’t make sense for them anymore. He is talking about different store fronts on Xbox. I don’t know why people think that means they are going in the direction of their own bespoke handheld they would probably have to subsidize to be competitive. What I think he is getting at is the idea of making Windows more like Steam OS. They are probably looking at having an optional Xbox front end you can boot into. Then partnering with some other stores like EGS so their stores fronts are compatible with this new front end. I don’t think they will do hardware. I think the future of Xbox hardware is Surface style Xbox branded PCs. Hardware that pushes the other OEMs, not some mass market play like Xbox has been up until this point. Making Windows more like Steam OS could make Xbox Game Pass and buying games via the Windows Store more of a viable competitor to Steam. It would also make consolizing the PC experience really easy on a Desktop, Laptop or Handheld.

MS wants those stores on Xbox so Apple/Google will be pressured by EU to open up their stores. MS is looking at the mobile market as allowing other stores on xbox doesnt lose them anything really..They will still get 70% for each of their games that sell in the other stores, just like they do now from retail. I really think this is for mobile store in future.

Sticking with free online and the god controller steamdeck till the 2 comes out🙂

I will go where there respect us the most. Once a company takes the market share, they stop giving a shit. History will always repeat itself

I'm playing Portal 2 for the first time 😂 also, I think Xbox big picture mode sounds more likely than an Xbox hand-held🤷‍♂️

Got Forbbiden West working at around 40 FPS on custom settings, mostly medium but textures high on the Rog Ally. It amazes me that it can play that game so well. Def took adjusting, and I have to switch the RAM to auto when I normally do 6 but works great.