You guys in the comments make a good point about suspension seat posts. I didn't really mention them because I was just focusing on frame design considerations, but yes you can absolutely add a good suspension seat post like a Thudbuster that can help improve comfort, even if it isn't the same as true rear suspension.

@a-aron2276

4 жыл бұрын

And for those stuck with no suspension, thudbuster do a handlebar stem aswell as far as I'm aware👍🏼

@Brandon_Neil

4 жыл бұрын

You should've mentioned fat tires because it definitely is its own for of suspension

@grumpus27

4 жыл бұрын

​@@a-aron2276 The Redshift Shock-Stop stem, a neater reincarnation of the Girvin Flex Stem (remember those?) They also do a linkage type suspension seatpost (like the Thudbuster but with steel coil springs instead of elastomers).

@clytriftg

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, I'd recommend the Thudbuster + front suspension for comfy paved street commuting. I've commuted 2,000 miles on my BBSHD + Cannondale Trail 6 with that combo (and 29" Big Apple balloon tires) in the past few months and I think it's a great combo.

@lukepires747

4 жыл бұрын

Full suspension bike don’t have the best efficiency, as you Pedro the shock absorbed some energy also they are harder to maintain. There are hard tails made for trails and they can be just as capable as most full suspension bikes and they have better efficiency Unless you are doing advanced mountain biking trails on you commute all you really need is a hybrid hard tail or at the most a trail hard tail

The main point has been missed. Because of the weight of ebikes more mass is transferred through the seat so suspension is more important to have. Seat post suspension has improved and is a must on ebikes without built in cushioning.

@airwilliam24

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe I'm crazy, but I rode a 1500watt motor on one of those old mountain bikes with no suspension.

@super-sim1665

4 жыл бұрын

I ride both types, the more weight the more kick in the seat. More important on long range ebikes

@a5-30-31cts

4 жыл бұрын

@super-sim - Glad you made your point. I was gonna say the same thing (that Micah did not mention sprung saddles and suspension seat posts - but he explains why below.). I have a hard tail with suspension fork, but I put a brown Selle Royal Classic Drifter seat (wide gel seat with springs) and it really helps in the rear (mine is mid-drive Cyclone 3000 watt with 52v, 25ah pack. The seat solution is probably not as good as a real rear suspension, but it really does take the edge off the bumps of a lot of city and hard-pack dirt riding. Sprung seats probably can't handle fast technical off-road like real suspension can, but for the city and casual speeds (below 35mph) it's an effective "poor man's rear suspension". But I also agree with your comment about unsprung weight of rear hub motor that's gonna really kick your spine no matter what seat you have! (My mid-drive works well with the sprung saddle.). Also really recommend spefically the Selle Royal Classic Drifter. Its supreme comfort (the brown one is more plush than the black one... I have both!) makes long rides fun and something to look forward to. (I haven't tried suspension seat posts, but that sounds like a good idea too). I wish I could combine both, but my frame is too tall to fit both.

Not all of us live at the beaches!! I ride in Pennsylvania, all on-road. With out susp., my back would be shattered, and my sack would be scrambled eggs!!

If you are an amputee, especially an above knee amputee as I am, invest in a full suspension bike. The lack of ability to get out of the saddle for nasty bumps and jars is a big problem for amputee riders, especially men. The rear suspension will save you some very sore boys. It is not as painless as rising from the saddle with your legs, but it is far better than nothing. The front suspension can be forcibly compressed and then the rebound of the suspension used to get the front wheel up for going over curbs and the like as well. Since amputees are not able to manipulate their weight onto or off of the handlebars as well as others, this can be very useful also. You will pay more up front, but you are far more likely to actually ride your bike if you are not being constantly injured while on it. On that note, if you are unable to ride a bike as an amputee due to balance issues or for similar reasons do not rule out a trike, with electric assist they are a valid option. Look into tadpole recumbent trikes for more options. Most manufacturers offer bars to assist getting on or off the trike, so the low seat height is not as big of a hindrance as you might think. This was my solution for gradually getting into biking again after over a decade stuck in a wheelchair prior to my amputation. I credit my ICE Adventure HD with restoring my mobility as much as, if not more so than, I do any other medical device I was forced to use. The added benefit of the trike is that if you become tired you can merely stop in place and rest safely, no fear of falling off or falling over while riding. Tho curb hopping is not a real option on a trike.

@Brandon_Neil

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view. You have given me alot of new things to consider

Short answer: It depends, as always.

Re: full-suspension bikes "...you can hit jumps..." Well, that really depends. Some full suspension bikes are designed for that, and others are not. A hardtail can be jump-capable, and a full-suspension bike can not be, it's all what each bike is designed and warrantied to do.

Awesome video! The new frey bike cc looks cool as well, can't wait to see a full review!

I recently bought a 20" fat tire ebike w/full suspension and I love the ride! On my other non suspension ebike I added a Satori Animaris suspension seatpost that works well for less $$ than a Suntour or Thudbuster. I almost bought the non-suspension version of the fat tire bike but they were out of them and they made me a deal on the full suspension model. I don't like the seat position on the full suspension model but it's worth the compromise for the ride.

Another consideration for full suspension models, particularly for DIYer's, is battery size/configuration. Hardtails with adjustable front suspension are my preference as the frame configuration offers more space for higher capacity batteries.

@hoangtran4736

4 жыл бұрын

I've seen some gravel bikes around campus with super big triangles in them. The tubes are thicc enough that i'm sure they can take any an mtb can if equipped with suspension forks. I'm just waiting until summer rolls around so I can have the money and purchase a boatload of cells just to see how much I can cram into those gigantic triangles.

@myscreen2urs

2 жыл бұрын

I know what you mean. I've been riding with full suspension for several years and not having the bountiful Battery space that hard tails offer is a trade off. I've managed to attach my triangular pack above the top tube and wedged into the seat. The centre of gravity is a little high but it works. Just offset that with a smaller pack hanging from the downtube.

@TravisMcGee151

Жыл бұрын

@@myscreen2ursI purchased my first e-bike last month. Ride it everyday. It has front suspension which does do squat for my back or butt. The next e-bike I buy will definitely be a full suspension bike. Edit: front suspension doesn’t help my back or butt out at all. I may sell this one. Full suspension all the way.

@SuperZabojca

Жыл бұрын

@@TravisMcGee151 Or just buy suspension seatpost. CANE CREEK Thudbuster G4 LT is insanely good and doesn't affect your pedaling much.

All well said, Micah. Another factor is speed. If you are mega-commuting long miles, then full suspension allows you to carry your high speed (28 mph+) no matter what is going on with the road surface. At 12mph-15mph that you might normally travel in the city on a non-powered bike, poor surfaces are easily seen and you can react (brake or lane change) accordingly. But at the high speeds (some of us trying to replace cars) you will have a safety factor in not getting thrown off a bike or getting pinch flats or broken spokes/rims from quickly hitting perpendicular railroad tracks or even a pothole. Experienced roadies on superlight bikes actually learn to jump these things if they occur at the bottom of a steep hill, but that's with a light bike and clipless pedals. A good full suspension bike allows you to ride right over them at speed.

@EbikeSchool

4 жыл бұрын

That's also a good point! Why didn't you read my mind and say something yesterday before I posted the video? ;-)

Thanks for the information. I always enjoy your video's.

Yes, it really has to do with everyone's type of commute, or type of riding. Thanks for making us think about our real needs.

Good work as always man!

Nice comparison...really helps when trying to decide which bike to buy or convert!

Always good content. Thanks Micah.

I LOVE my SR Suntour suspension seatpost. 100% worth it .

Always great informative Videos

Nice video. I use an AWD Super Monarch 1000w by E-Cells as my primary transportation. The duel batteries, dual suspension and dual motors help me get through the ice and snow in the winter time with relative ease and reasonable comfort.

Another great informative video!!!

Very informative keep them coming !

Thanks for the excellent information.

Great tips, as ususal. There really is a big difference in prices, when it comes to suspensions.

Cool! It just so happen’s that I was asking myself these questions. There are now these full suspension Ebikes offerings. Juiced, Ariel Ryder and new super 72 “R” to name a few. Nice to hear your thoughts!

On perfect roads and where never have bump up and down a kerb suspension bikes are unnecessary. Spot on with all the analysis. 👍

your videos really GREAT!!!. I like your videos for my motorcycle.

Thanks Mr M. Think I will invest in a seat post !!

I’ll take one of each please, Micah! I really get so much out of watching your videos.

Yo Micah,great review.Glad to see you are back to good health and doing well!! I'm still doing my thing with your Vruzend cell holders. As always, they are the "Best thing since sliced bread"! ;-)I just added a 61V 15AH pack (made with Vruzend Cell Holders) to my latest eDrift 1500W FTS (Fat Tire Scooter). cheersBoots LangleyLa Mesa, Ca

Thank you... just the type of discussion I was wanting. That is really a help when I try to make my choice. I'm really curious to see what "Dost" bikes will have to offer this spring. They will offer different suspension options.

Good information. Now I know what to get next time I am in the market.

Nice run down on three basic types. Hard tail with seat post suspension can be good upgrade & approach full suspension at lesser cost.

You don't need real suspension in the rear if you buy a parallelogram suspension seatpost. They work so incredibly well

:) good video. Always very informative

not one mention about unsprung mass, great video.

Great info!

Your info on MOTOR TYPE OF ADS really helped a lot for I took advantage of this and found one seller I took advantage of. Yes Battery specs will expose it all and I leave it to that but I know exactly what to look for when seeing the seller s info. Basically I got E Bike was just the same of higher labeled ones of same model name, difference was the 4 inch tires of the higher sale including the battery specs which I did the math and just laughed at the ad sales, lol.. Im novice and starting out very great on what I need and do of KNOWING THE MATH. When looking at top speed I only look at that of the use for hills besides weight, wind, ect. Top speed gives clear indication of certain type of hills I will master. I

Good info thanks

I have used hardtail frames so far with my bikes. I like the space you get in the triangle for batteries and that you have more flexibility for the components. I use a big comfy saddle on my fatbike and a cane creek thudbuster on my gravel bike. Nothing against full suspension but I have been able to ride trails comfortably without full suspension.

@BkBk-gy6vr

Жыл бұрын

Nah, everyone in that situation gets uncomfortable unless your real young, maybe or most lilley you dont ride for long periods of time. I know your going to claim you ride hours at a time. Full suspension is a must period anyone listening, dont waste your money unless its full suspension the extra mo ey is well worth your back. Plus its not just way more comfy the bikes. Handle better and overall ride better. Too many pros to waste time on a non rear suspension. A comfy seat and after-market seat post still is not enough.

Tire pressure and tire size plays a big difference. At the perfect psi, the rigid bike may be as comfy as a hardtail. And a hardtail may have a more balanced cushioned feel. I have a front ewheel kit on a rigid bike and it feels optimal with 35 psi on both wheels. If you pump it to max pressure, your whole body will tire more quickly to absorb all the shock. Same for my front suspension hard tail, rear ewheel. I don't miss rear suspension if I'm not trying to roll up over curbs. I am about to mount the front ewheel on a 26 pound full suspension. That may be the holy grail if the handling is good.

Very helpful. I think I’m leaning toward full suspension.

Looks warm and breezy around Boston today😀

I put a Cane Creek Thudbuster on my hardtail. Worked really well.

Thanks Mica.. can you do a deep dive into programming bafang controllers sometime? Like what can you get away with for amp limits, etc.

I value your view as I have 2 ebikes both I have converted a hub and mid drive, the hub ebike is fitted to a none suspension bike and certainly not suitable for a heavy person like me. It is a lovely cycle but had to put it up for sale because it will cerainly suite a lighter rider after a cheap ebike to get around. My other ebike was a front hub ebike I have converted to a mid drive with front suspension and does make such a difference to riding. I don't do off roading and if I did the full suspension looks the works but the front suspension does me fine. Thanks Mike

great job

Good reviews

Good info, thanx

I have a couple of electric bikes glad I found this channel I want to convert it all to solar/electric eventually

Hola! And congrats for your amazing channel. I'm just wondering, what if I install a 48v 1000w rear wheel motor on a full suspension bike? Would the power coming from the rear wheel interfere with the rear suspension and handling of the bike?

A suspension seat post is a good option on the hard-tails takes away most of the pain.

I just built a 250w ebike from a cheap kit on my channel, used a hardtrail frame full suspender is nice if you can afford it but I can’t.

Yes yes and yes a full suspension is an absolute must!!

My Goldilocks set-up for commuting is a hard-tail with no suspension fork in the front. I just stick in Redshift stem up front and that handles all the small road bumps.

Thank you for video. Looking at getting an ebike

Totally agree with your assessment and experience. There's a lot of fat tire ebikes now coming out with suspension. For high speed (30+ mph) it's helpful but realistically with fat tires any suspension is mostly redundant and for show. You already have suspension enough in your 4 inch tires!

@ChuckMastersonHQ

9 ай бұрын

Not really. While fat tires allow for curb hits and such, the impact on your spine doesn't change much becasue with skinney tires you spend a lot of time standing and watching for every ripple. With fat tires you relax much more and the bounce is constant though not as sharp.

Starting at the 3K range for a decent full suspension E bike. Got it!

This came out right after my Trek Ebike purchase. I'll build one next. Be Well.

It's a very interesting topic.

Custom made a mid 90s Trek into a hardtail with triple Tree suspension, Chromoly is a sturdy lightweight material too.

Good video.

These videos are great for the newby to electric bikes and power configuration. Is there a way to make a battery pack that can convert from a 36v,48v, or 52v at the flip of a switch to integrate the additional cells needed for extra power. I got the idea from a vehicle battery that used to have a reserve switch if the battery went dead.

Great video as always. Apart from the seat post suspension, Balloon type tires could make a pretty big difference in comfort and puncture protection .Micah check out Schwalbe Big ben plus, Super moto X or Big apple, they are specially designed for e-bikes; even on a rigid e-bike you could really tell the difference. I bought Big ben plus 2.40 inch for my 1500 w DIY rigid e-bike, worth it.

@brandonhindmarsh4353

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. Fat Frank on my hard tail neighborhood cruiser

I like my old rigid frame Specialized Hard Rock. Perfect for the average paved suburban streets or paved bike trails. Add all the stuff and you just add weight.

How would you go about upgrading a manufactured ebike battery? Like changing the wires to a larger gauge and installing a better BMS, along with an other upgrades you can think of for a battery.

Thing you didn't mention that can add to the value of a hard tale is that you can just add a suspention seat post for less than $100 and that is still usually WAY less than buying one with integrated full suspention. I bought one for mine and it's amazing! To be fair as well this doesn't mean it's all the sudden an offroading bike but it is wildly more comfortable to ride now with "sudo" full suspention. (For reference I have the Voletric Discover 1 Ebike with an NCX suspention seatpost added to it)

Can't say one good word about this video- black is black white is white. Why u did mention saddle suspension, which can make riding on hardtail more comfortable. Also u can use thicker and wider tires to get better comfort. I don't think powerfull motor with plenty if torque will be good combination with narrow tires.

thanks for your videos. I need your book from batteries. hello from colombia

I find that even a cheap coil rear suspension helps a ton compared to hardtail. I did a conversion on a cheal full suspension walmart bike, and the experience is much better than the hardtails and no-sus bikes I used to ride down the rough local streets when I was younger, and that's even after the fact that I'm going significantly faster on this eBike than I did on those bikes. It's to the point that I just plain feel more safe with it, because I know there's not nearly as much rough terrain that can throw me around and even disrupt my balance entirely, where woth lesser suspensions, the moment I hit anything, or did something like slip my tire off a small ledge at a steep angle, that was it, the bike threw me, whereas on my new eBike I'm shifted forward in my saddle as a worst case, as I get my feet on the ground to correct the error. The only time I've been completely torn off the bike, was when I was trying to walk my dog on it and he decided to be naughty and not only pull me over, but once the bike was on jts side he pulled me away. That event cemented the fact that I won't be riding with the dog anymore, evem though I worked so hard on training him to run with it; I can't have that, regardless of the time of day, traffic, or whether I'm on the road or sidewalk.

@Philscbx

Жыл бұрын

Oh Yea - Happened to me as well with Siberian Husky - Sudden Stop ----- 'Squirrel',, MachII stage left straight into hedges. Never Again @! Cheers

Alternatively i have Kalkhoff with front suspension hardtail. I changed the seat to suspension post and its lot better at handling potholes and poor road surfaces in london. Next i am going to change to larger softer saddle seat. Almost as good as full suspension!

I wish you mention the correspondence between frame and motor type (middrive , e-wheeled direct or with reductor) for diy bikes. If one puts a heavy 1kw motor to the back wheel of hardtail for a bumpy road - the frame may fall apart, i guess.

Clear explanation! (Entry in your drawing!)

Hey, another thing to mention in a future video would be suspension seat posts like the SR Suntour NCX. And then compare that to the spring-post style that don't really do anything because the geometry is wrong.

@EbikeSchool

4 жыл бұрын

Excellent point!

I ride over 50 miles daily. I build 3 ebikes with the same rear hub using abandoned frames. Surprisingly, a $90 girl's Mongoose front suspension/hardtail bike was very comfortable as the frame was flexible and easy to get in and out as I carry a tall styrofoam cooler behind my seat. It feels better than a cheap rear suspension frame. Also, the lower the seat, the faster/safer the cornering. Rear suspension makes installing a solid rear rack a problem. I also use Kool-stop eBike brake pads and an eBay Chaser booster that looks like a horseshoe. Also, I use the largest cruiser saddle you can get at Walmart.

I built a 40mph cruiser with springer front fork. The seat is a sprung tractor seat. I'm comfortable, but I can't use this bike much. I live in Denver, where the extreme annual temperatures and heavy construction trucks keep the roads destroyed. A 40mph bike isn't allowed on sidewalks - it's in the "scooter" class. I'm always blowing spokes on the hardtail rear wheel on bulking seams, potholes, curbs, etc. That's in spite of the extra high-profile retro white tires. So we get to the subject of speed. Nobody with a bike intended to go over 25mph should consider anything but dual-suspension. It's not about comfort, at those speeds, but keeping your bike from disintegrating.

Thank you Micah

Hey, a quick question (a bit offtopic): how are you calculating the range of the ebike? What variables are taking in consideration? This would be a good video Cheers, Sorin

GROOVY man real GROOVY👍🏻

You can add a seat post suspension. That helps.

can you make a video on charging design? input: suggested charging current per cell, and battery configuration. Output: voltage and optimal charging current?

yeah, sounds about right!

The Propella is kind of a worst-case scenario for a rigid e-bike because it's tires are so thin by e-bike standards, at 32mm as shown. Use a 50 or 60mm tire, plus seat and even a stem suspension, and comfort improves considerably. The maker of the hard tail bike here, Ride1Up, has a flagship bike that's rigid (the Prodigy). I had an e-bike with a suspension fork, and replaced it and the agility/steering improved considerably. The top tier bike brands (Specialized, Giant, Trek, Cannondale) all have flagship commuter e-bikes with rigid forks.

Cool vid😀

Bought the m2s full suspension frame 4.5 inch tire version in blue. 20 amp hour battery. Fun bike in florida sand.

Like front fork suspension, not rear shock, would like to try seat suspension

Suspension seatpost or stem are decent options, at least as upgrades on something like the Propella. Reasonable as far as price too. Not sure what the ride feel is like on the newest iterations, but Allsop/Softride were doing interesting things in the 90s. The other eye catching addition would be one those plant your butt cruiser saddles. They're comical, but I'd happily design a toilet seat around one. Micah, did you school in Boston? Didn't know you were ever here. Have you returned since the city has begun embracing bike lanes and such?

When is the BMW bike conversion video coming or have you not seen Dad yet lol new fan and subscriber

I'm not sure $999 is "affordable", especially when the front suspension bike is only $100 more. In my experience, even crap suspension is better than no suspension according to my wrists, joints and butt.

Yup the hard tail is my favorite to

Another very good option though is to have a non-suspension bike with wide tires, like 2.5" or wider. That's probably my favorite. If comfort is relevant, narrow tires are just not a good option at all.

Depends on your use.

From my experience, things get a bit sketchy when you hit 30mph with out suspension, on the road.

Suspensions on bikes has always been a fascinating and interesting idea

Suntour SP-12 NXC seat post rocks on my Scott Sub E Tour

Full suspension whenever possible, better /more comfort in all scenarios, don't rely on 4 inch wide tires,and seat suspension to put you in the ultimate comfort zone, a little ,they will help but still not full suspension. It's all a matter of preference

good wind blocking Mic . I've yet to try a suspension seatpost on an ebike . wondering if they are worth it for fast commuting /curb jumping ,grass riding and such

@johnmountford3007

3 жыл бұрын

I have the SR Suntour NCX suspension seatpost on my BH Evo Cross Pro. It's great. The difference in comfort is amazing.

I am commuting to work since almost 30 years. The whole year, even in winter in Germany. I had trekking bikes wit suspended seat posts and trekking bikes with full suspension. At the moment I own a trekking e bike with Suntour suspended seat post and a front suspension fork. Also I own a Atb e bike with full suspension. On both I have installed a very soft saddle. Even for commuting on tarmac the full suspension Atb is ten times more comfortable than the trekking e bike. I am still using the trekking e bike, because it has a rear rack, mudguards and lights. It has also a more upright sitting position. But for suspension comfort nothing beats a full suspension bike. Some say a full suspension bike eats energy from the damper. That might be partially true, but that was more for older systems. Beside that, full suspension helps you to save energy. You wont have to lift your body out of the seat so often when it gets bumpy on the road. So you will arrive much more relaxed.

You should also independently compare suspension seatpost added with your three options

I want one of your books.

Plan on some possible changes for a full suspension bike... if you plan on a DIY method, more than likely the rear shock will not take the weight of you, the motor (if center mount) and the battery. Most are limited to 200 - 250lbs... some are less. So you have to consider the cost of a rear shock as well. Plus the rear suspension will greatly limit placement of the battery. How much do you “really” plan on being off-road with your e-bike?

I’ve definitely got the “crap” full suspension diy ebike... but it absorbs more than a hardtail.. :). Maybe I’ll upgrade the front forks!?