Now we've finally opened this can of worms, what did you think? If you were a big fan of Jodie's tenure, that's awesome! Love what you love! What were your best and/or worst moments across the Chibnall era?

@ianwoodall4523

Жыл бұрын

That Xmas special when the Daleks repeatedly shot her. I can forgive them the Time war just because they did that.

@grimwanderer

Жыл бұрын

I still say Orphan 55 was misunderstood. It was, in my opinion, a love letter to 80's era Who... from the alien "costumes", to the celebrity (or "celebrity") appearances, to the "twist" of what Orphan 55 really was. I would agree that it suffered from all the worst aspects of Chibnail era Who... but taking as a fan-turned-showrunner's tribute to the Who of his own youth gives me enough appreciation to say it isn't the worst episode of Who ever. Orphan 55 had (to me) echoes of things like Time Flight, Warriors of the Deep, and the Twin Dilemma. Episodes that some fans remember fondly despite their faults.

@richardvinsen2385

Жыл бұрын

I just found the past few years boring.

@vanimapermai

Жыл бұрын

Yes had RTD not comeback the show would be in hiatus when chibnall started writing POtD he had no idea who his replacement was because there wasn't one no one wanted to touch it after all the damage he'd done.

@RantingThespian

Жыл бұрын

The only consistent good moments I saw (I skipped Flux, so I can't comment on those episodes) were really only in the episode he didn't write: The Haunting Of Villa Diodati.

The ironic thing is that Chibnall is now considered worse than JNT, the very show runner he disliked. I think it says something when you manage to lower the bar than your least favourite showrunner

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

Really not

@hammond8692

Жыл бұрын

I personally like the fact that the old video of him criticising the show has him call it cliche, and then he manages to do the MOST cliche thing ever by introducing a "special" character only to reveal, shock horror, it was the main character all along, and yes, he is now by far the worst writer who has ever had, bar none

@daedalus6433

Жыл бұрын

It is infinitely easier to criticize writing than to write something better than what you criticize

@Chairdolf

Жыл бұрын

@@daedalus6433 dude have u seen the stories I can guarantee the original commenter could make a better story and scrip that chibb he's fucking awfully my dnd back stories trump anything he's ever made like come on dude he's awful and ruined the first female doctor.

@reflex9238

Жыл бұрын

@@daedalus6433 I agree, however since he was a writer he maybe might've wanted to hold his tongue. Plus he really didn't make look like he was going to be any better if even the episodes he's rewritten before he was the main show runner were considered one of the worst and were almost all the same.

Jodie deserved better

@ethanbrooks1490

Жыл бұрын

She really did I think she had so much potential

@lxtechmangood9503

Жыл бұрын

Jodi needed so much better, the script and stories were atrocious plus some of the political bits didn't help. Everything didn't flow and the timeless child bit and the other doctor bit didn't help.

@LostinKateWinslet

Жыл бұрын

They made her character small when it needed to be big. And that's a female trait, to give space to others but Jodie was the first female Doctor. She should have been the star of her own show rather than part of the collective Fam. That's what I will remember the Chibbers era for - a lot of interesting ideas and brave concepts undermined by a lack of delivery and emotional depth.

@joeldean2706

Жыл бұрын

I would say Jodie's doctor needed to be written better and use the sonic screwdriver lessened. But yeah Jodie's time as the doctor was a bit disappointing to me, but she had potential to be a good in the role.

@Reprodestruxion

Жыл бұрын

Jo Martin too

I hated the timeless child because it unnecessarily changed everything

@Chairdolf

Жыл бұрын

Yea like how does tranzalor work seeing as the doctor can't die

@georgepom328

Жыл бұрын

@@Chairdolf that was way back and he can die

@alexanderfinch4432

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree with you. The only way I can make sense of it is that it was a false history conjured up by the master within the matrix. As we all know the matrix can create false realities.

@deadpooldan9862

Жыл бұрын

@@Chairdolf because he didn’t have unlimited regenerations, remember the Master said they limited the number to 12, so why would they let the Doctor have unlimited after they erased their memories? They limited the lifespan of the Doctor and then gave 11 a new regeneration cycle

@AzguardMike

Жыл бұрын

Yet the timeless child said that The Doctor has unlimited lives. When Smith "runs out" he still had unlimited. I dont recall the line "they limited you." Then they gave him another 12 lives. 12+ unlimited = still unlimited.

He killed it, burned it to the ground, jumped up and down on the pieces and then salted the Earth so it could never arise again. I've never seen a more thorough intentional destruction of a franchise.

@fireflygaming8764

Ай бұрын

Star Wars?

@kerravon4159

Ай бұрын

@@fireflygaming8764 Star Wars does come close, and so does STD Star Trek. But I think Dr Who still takes the prize as most "abused into oblivion" franchise in history.

I had such high hopes for the first female Doctor. Missy was amazing and showed us that a change of gender done right could elevate a character. My hopes have been continuously shattered. Jodie was done dirty by terrible writing. There was never a moment where I truly believed she was The Doctor. Plots with a hundred threads, but none of them really went anywhere. The villains were very two dimensional and there was no real threat. It seemed no matter what happened, every story ended with things being fine and back to normal, no matter what happened. I mean, Flux had six episodes, supposedly half the universe was destroyed but next episode it's been completely dismissed. The Doctor should have been in pieces trying to save whole species and planets, or at least saving refugees, but nope, lets just go on a jolly. The companions were unforgettable and almost see through. It seemed like a cheap knock off version of Doctor Who. I SO wanted to love 13 but she just never had the chance.

@DarkArtsMage

Жыл бұрын

& at the end of it all... Gallifrey was still destroyed, for no other reason than ("Gallifrey is nothing more than a prop!") as the writers stated!

@RantingThespian

Жыл бұрын

There was one moment that Jodie actually seemed to be the Doctor to me. That was in her speech during Villa Diodati. However, the next 2 episodes murdered that moment.

@FelixTheNoodle

Жыл бұрын

I have hope for 13s future in the form of expanded media. You see, the problems 13 faced due to bad writing and characterization are similar to that of the 6th Doctor (Colin Baker). Except, it was arguably worse for 6, as many people, including the BBC's controller, blamed Baker's performance for the low quality stories, when in reality, Baker was just given shit scripts. It wasn't until Big Finish that the 6th Doctor, and in some ways Baker, was justified as the Doctor. I'm hoping the same happens with 13 sometime in the future when Big Finish is able to start using that incarnation, or maybe even before then with comics and novels.

@phantomsidious2934

Жыл бұрын

Missy was done right? All she did was flirt and joke using innuendo, basically another river song/captain jack. Ruined the Master

@RDeverall

Жыл бұрын

I agree

One of my biggest grievances with the Chibnall’s era was the crude politicisation seen in many of the episodes. New-Who has always dealt with difficult topics e.g. Aliens of London/WW3 (political corruption), The Long Game (media manipulation), Rise of the Cybermen (corporate power), Gridlock (pollution, addiction), Planet of the Ood (Modern slavery), Silence in the Library (deforestation, the paper industry), The Beast Below (moral compass), Vincent and the doctor (mental health/depression), The Rebel Flesh (sentience/being alive)... Throughout all of this you had Lgbt+ representation, inter-racial relationships and the constant reminder of human (alien) displacement. Yet this did not detract from the storytelling and character work or even the core purpose of Doctor Who as a sci-fi television program, entertainment. Chibnall's era has treated many long-term fans, new fans, and casual viewers as if we're unintelligent and lacking the ability to think for ourselves. I could go on about the many other methodological problems in this era of Who, but this isn't only a problem seen within Doctor Who but as a wider shift in film and television. Putting message and ideology over good characters and story, even though they're not mutually exclusive.

@johnsmith-de3tl

Жыл бұрын

its the old question, are you writing a story with subtext or are you writing for a subject with an underlying story. 13 was politics with an underlying story, 9-12 was story with varying subtexts.

@thelegendthemyththeman4772

Жыл бұрын

Yep

@frankshailes3205

Жыл бұрын

"Chibnall's era has treated ... viewers as if we're unintelligent and lacking the ability to think for ourselves." Ah, so Chibnall's writing is the equivalent of Murray Gold's music. Got ya.

@shivill2236

Жыл бұрын

​@@frankshailes3205Not really, Murray's music is at least good.

@AzguardMike

Жыл бұрын

even with Davros origin in Baker's run, they were clearly nazi's, but never flat out addressed as such. The salute, the uniforms. The "Please. Our Supreme Scientist has determined this. So thats just the fact." Is exactly how the nazi's would talk about Hitler. "The Fuhrer has said this, so it MUST be true!"

The problem with Thasmin was that falling in love with the Doctor is usually a terrible idea - Rose trapped in a parallel universe and declared dead, Martha wandering the Earth for a year before walking away for her own sanity, River sacrificing herself to save a man who doesn’t even know who she is. Yaz gets taken out for ice-cream and dropped home. She deserved far worse.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

Ah yes like rose, river nor Martha din't get anyth'in with the doctor.. how wait RIVER MARRIED THEM AND ROSE WAS A FUCKING EXCUSE FOR THEM TO BE AWFUL WITH MARTHA LMAO AND THEY DON'T END WITH EACH OTHER SO WHAT ARE YOU ON LMAO

@qoopertrooper

7 ай бұрын

@@gay4sswhovian Can you spell or punctuate your sentence? That is illegible.

I felt that the show hit pause for 5 years. I don't remember the stories. I remember some head scratching as Chibnall tried to over promise then under deliver. If the last episode of the era was the Doctor waking up and literally saying "It was all a dream", I wouldn't even be mad. I love going back and watching episodes or having them play in the background while working, but the writing was so vanilla, so transient, there isn't anything to revisit. Graham was a bright point, and the best written character. The Doctor was tell, don't show. Jodi needed a better character to portray. I've loved her performances in other productions, but this version of the Doctor wasn't engaging. It felt like a character checklist where the writing ticked four boxes (exposition dump, quick internal yes/no/yes/no/lightbulb, sonic replacing every sensory perception, quick lesson learned speech) then stopped and went home for the weekend, job done. This era felt like a lot of story threads that were brought out into the spotlight to show how good an idea man Chibnall was, then swept up into a corner and trotted out if someone needed a couple of filler minutes if the show was running short. The Timeless Child plot seemed to be Chibnall's attempt to leave his mark on the lore of Who. But like most of the era, it was hammering a square peg into a round hole and after getting the peg stuck, he filled in the remaining gaps with an exposition dump, tapped it with a sonic and said, "good enough, job done."

@occheermommy

Жыл бұрын

This is exactly how I feel. I went on a long rant saying very much the same thing. It’s sad because I feel like there was so much potential there to really show a more emotional side of the doctor or more depth but it was all wasted.

@Panbaneesha

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Although I liked both Peter Capaldi and Jodie Whittaker in the role, the stories began to slightly bore me during Capaldi's stint, and I stopped watching altogether after Whittaker's witches episode. Both of them, especially Whittaker, were done dirty in my opinion. Only when I heard about the new doctor(s), did I work myself through the Chibnall episodes to be up to date. They're not horrible, but mildly entertaining just isn't enough. And the ever-clutched screwdriver got on my nerves big time.

@GuineaPigEveryday

Жыл бұрын

same here, even though the final season of Capaldi wasn't my fav I was still very excited, and I was engaged. Then the last 5 years Doctor Who has been out of my life, completely gone, I never thought of it, or thought of the future of Dr Who. It's so weird to think now that I'm excited again for Russel T Davies' new season, because genuinely Doctor Who was one of the most important things in my childhood. I guess its the same downturn that fans of Star Trek and Star Wars went through. Jodie Whittaker is a fine actress, and the companions are too, it all comes down to writing despite what some ppl claim about 'wokeness' of casting. Its all writing as we've seen in Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic World, which have great actors but dogshit writers.

@venmis137

Жыл бұрын

Yep, it's nice that it seems to be back though, hopefully it won't be a temporary resurgence. Personally I think I'll still rewatch a few of the episodes from the era, but certainly not as many as I would like to. 90% of them are just... not good.

I only just realised that Jodie felt sorry for a creature being suffocated to do death meanwhile she had just condemned hundreds of other spiders to that exact death

@matthewmaxfield8443

7 ай бұрын

worse episode that I watched, got me to stop watching until these new specials this christmas, she told a man to not shoot them and to treat them with respect...by locking them in a room and suffocating them to death, because that is more humane, I guess. Then the guy who suggested shooting them was a Trump caricature, so he couldn't muster a halfway decent argument that a child could that shooting them is more humane

@worthybutter2004

Ай бұрын

@@matthewmaxfield8443 I always found it weird how that dude says he despised Trump, and yet he ACTS like Trump!

I always wanted the Fugitive Doctor to be Romana having taken on the Doctors name out of respect of the mentor she believed to have died in the time war

@emotionalsupportostrich2480

Жыл бұрын

Better explanation than the terrible crap that was the timeless child.

@luisd.mancilla8169

Жыл бұрын

When we first saw her my first thought was that she was a Doctor from another universe, like from Rose's universe, that's why she's a fugitive

@AzguardMike

Жыл бұрын

Imagine the first new shot is Capaldi at the north pole, fists in the show "Nooooooo!!!!! Was all a midlife, post regeneration crisis he was having. Stumbles back to the TARDIS and see's his diary that he uses whenever he encounters River. Starts looking at old items from his adventures. Donna's ring, Rose's jacket, Martha's phone, the repaired jar from his Hand, stopping when he pulls out Tennant's blue suit. "Well.....why not visit a few of the old favourites hmmm?" Quoting what The Curator said. "Once more unto the breech, Dear Doctor!" Then he regenerates back into Tennant.

@billydeeuk

Жыл бұрын

@@luisd.mancilla8169 I also thought that’s what the twist was going to be. In fact, I thought the whole season finale twist was going to be that they had been in an alternate universe since the events of Spyfall Part 2. We had monsters who could travel to parallel dimensions - at one point (if I remember correctly) they also teleported The Doctor? So I asssumed that, after she defeated them, she hadn’t realised she’d fucked up/or that The Master’s plan all along was to banish her to a parallel dimension. Orphan 55 ended with it being Planet Earth - the doctors explanation of it being a “potential future” was pretty weak. Previous Doctors had visited Earth later in its history and even at the planet’s end. We know in DH Lore that these are now fixed points in time, so we know Earth’s history. It was an alternative Earth. You then meet Ruth who has no memory of being Jodie and Jodie has no memory of being Ruth, despite it being the same brain. Why? Alternative timeline. This could have led to an excellent 2-parter of trying to get our Doctor back to our reality and undo whatever fuckery The Master had done without The Doctor there to stop him. And it would obviously be something so bad that it would need two Doctors to overcome it….

@scloftin8861

Жыл бұрын

That would be such a delightful twist! I wonder if there's fan fiction ....

Well said, for me there where times when Chibnall's era of Doctor Who didn't feel like Doctor Who. At times the show has felt like it was on auto pilot.

I still don't think Jodie was the right choice for The Doctor. Yes she's a competent actor but she fundamentally didn't understand the character or the world she was inhabiting. You even pointed out the exposition and reaction problems and that's because she couldn't handle the role (just look at how Jo Martin eclipsed her in every scene they shared) For me Jodie always came across as a first year drama student who's reading the script for the first time and just wanting to come across as "dramatic"

@darthphayde508

Жыл бұрын

This is similar to my thoughts, someone can be a good actor and also be the wrong person for a part. Between her portrayal (she never had a Doctor defining moment for me, more like a 4th companion), the companions (too many) and writing, I gave up halfway through the Praexus episode. I'm looking forward to seeing the new fellow and how he fills the shoes.

@sheepyknees7763

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree complete miss-casting. Jodie was the best out of all the female actress they auditioned. I think not.

@occheermommy

Жыл бұрын

@@sheepyknees7763 no I think he cast her because she was his friend from Broadchurch. I think she was good in that but she brought nothing to the doctor. I can blame most of that on CC but there are still things she could have done way better

@JOHNSMITH-vx5yz

Жыл бұрын

Dont know what you mean. ,,,about this. Jo martin. Person. WE NEVER SEEN ANY EPISODES. OF HER. ,,AT ALL 😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕

Apparently Chris Chibnall said in an interview that he had had the idea for the Timeless Child since he was 6. If it’s true, it kind of shows

@peterd788

Жыл бұрын

The Timeless Children and Flux were shamefully stupid. Did he ever address the fact that most of the universe is gone?

@DarkArtsMage

Жыл бұрын

@@peterd788 The original Timeless Children were a brother & sister that were "Fixed Points of Time" in the Endless or Eternal Library! The only message that BBC managed to promote, was that it's perfectly fine to experiment on children... aka that mad Gallifreyian scientist experimenting on the Doctor as a Child...to derive immortality from her! In the older texts of Gallifrey, that wasn't how Gallifreyians gained their immortality. It was actually experiments that Rasilon did on the Looms ...aka the artificial growth-facilities for TimeLords!

@ianresc3615

Жыл бұрын

@@peterd788 No. He didn't adress any of the plots that he created. Whether that is actually good or bad is up for debate. I think by not adressing any of his arcs in the final episode he made the right choice for once. If you can't come up with some logical explanation, better leave it for future show runners to pick up.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

No he said that he did it because he was adopted too and let's be honnest it's not worst than this whole bullshit of the doctor being half human or a reincarnation of a random timelord lol

@sbi168

Жыл бұрын

I liked the idea, he didn't get time to flesh it out due to COVID but I was happy it has expanded the method even further. I genuinely don't get the hate for the idea, the execution by the end of flux was messy but I loved how it expanded the lore even more and gave even more scope for stories.

I won't say he Killed Doctor Who, but he did inflict serious injury.

Chibnall should have a booth at every Who convention where he lets fans punch him in the face.

He did, but luckily for us long term fans, The Doctor regenerates…

@user-wd1rf4nt3m

22 күн бұрын

.....and look what he regenerated in to!

@gamerboiiiiiii

2 күн бұрын

​​@@user-wd1rf4nt3ma gay black man with an obscene amoint of political messaging, pervymess, crying, and plot convenience?

I have seen Jodie in interviews and she definitely had a very Doctorish daffy energy but having 3 companions meant she was never allowed to have a well defined relationship arc with anyone. Leaving her interaction and infodumps feeling like a team leader than genuine friendships. The thing is each of the Fam could've been a great companion on their own and imagine their dynamics and arcs and could've been great as a Fam had they been introduced separately throughout the series Graham - Widower meets young woman who is actually ancient alien who shows him the universe and helps him overcome his grief. Ryan - a young man angry at his step grandad disappearing with a young woman after the death of his nan also overcomes his grief and is shown that his disability can't hinder his new sense of adventure. Yaz - young police officer investigating disappearance of her school friend's grandad finds a role model in this mysterious woman whose adventures allows her an outlet for bringing justice to the universe.

@chadc1982

Жыл бұрын

Good point: too many companions. However, Chibnall reminds of the guy referred in the observation, "He could fuck up a wet dream."

@MrDecelles

Жыл бұрын

The 3 companions were lackluster in personality and REACTION. You could replace 1 with another in many of the episodes. Heck Yash oftenn forgot her training... She probably had lines from one of the other 2.

@brettbrooks5511

Жыл бұрын

Gonna have to hard disagree with that sentiment. Nine had 3 companions with Rose, Mickey and Jack. Ten had numerous with Rose, Mickey, Jack, Martha, Donna, and even bringing back Sarah Jane. Eleven had Amy, Rory, River, and Clara. Twelve had Clara, Bill, Nardole and Missy. The OG doctor had multiple companions as did Two, Three, Four and Five. Don't blame the amount of companions for the disaster of an Era. The "fam" were poorly written just like every other character during the Era.

I'll never understand how the person responsible for Broadchurch managed to fall so far short and consistently fail to stick the landing. Jodi deserved so much more

@markhester6556

Жыл бұрын

It's because he knew nothing about writing sci-fi. He was a "Fan" of the show in his youth but he obviously didn't really like it as much as he thought. He wrote episodes for both Who and Torchwood (wasn't the Torchwood show ran by him? I'm not sure) anyway, he's better at writing who done it's and mystery type stories like Broadchurch. Sci-fi isn't his strong point and I guarantee he'll never write anything sci-fi related again .

@tragicallyhypno3158

Жыл бұрын

I felt the same way when everything was announced. I thought, "Oh, Chibnall wrote Broadchurch. Season one was great!" I forgot that season two was bad enough that I didn't finish it.

@theboraxbandit9563

Жыл бұрын

@@markhester6556 Torchwood had better writing than this era imo

@STho205

Жыл бұрын

Show is just too old. Early Who was a kids show. Then in the colour years it morphed into a teen show with a feel not unlike the John Steed and Bond Girls Avengers if a decade before. By the 80s attempting to be young ladies' quirky boyfriend show it just ran out of steam. Restart in 21st century after two decades, they reworked the boyfriend angle and that worked for three attractive young actors. The writing in the DT years was solid Sci Fi sometimes. Capaldi was an attempt to revert backward into Tom Baker and Pertwee with an old mystery man...but it was sputtering out in his years. The last five have been, "Is that still on" as straight teen boys don't fantasize about bland looking middle age women as TV dates like teen girls and gay boys did about the first three reboot doctors. They even stopped giving the fan beautiful or very cute actresses as they did in much of both series.

@Scrummy64

Жыл бұрын

Honestly man; my concern going into the Chibnall era was just whether he'd be a good fit for a sci-fi show, but on the flipside I expected his characterisations and dialogue to be absolutely top-notch. Hard to believe that Ryan and Yaz were created by the same guy who wrote Alec and Ellie

I really hated Jodie’s Tardis design how the characters never could sit down or doodle with whiteboards or what not feels like A downgrade from Capaldi’s

Crikey, here it goes. I think this entire era has been plagued with problems, ranging from big to small. The best way I can describe the feeling of this era is that its like when you see a plastic plant next to a bunch of real plants. It has similar things in common, but the smell, the texture and look and movement just isn't the same. I've been known to rant alot oabout this, as Doctor Who is the thing I've been most passionate about in life, but I'll try not to. The writing felt awkward, acting from many characters could feel artificial and felt rather melodramatic even from the main gang sometimes, probably due to lack of writing. Everything felt like it took a down turn, from the scaling and design of ships interiors, from the Tardis to Daleks ships. Some cinematography felt artificially edited with wierd lens flares or filtering or fake camera shakes and everything felt less beleivable, as alot of stuff felt so dark or overuse of atmospheric lighting. Humour didn't always land and the show was missing that fantastical charm. There was also very little recognition of previous series, which is essential to make characters feel the same, as 13 just lacked the same history and depth as her previous incranations had. Oh, and then there was the Timeless child, I know everyone says the same thing, but It just wasn't needed, and took away from the charm of the doctor being a regular person (for his standards) like me or you. Anyways, it just feels like it would only cause more retconning and problems for future writers which is why it looks like Davies hasn't even referenced it since.

As a rather older fan of DW than you, I think you nailed it. I'd love to say I've watched every episode I could have. I haven't. I was born in 1966, my first memories were of Pertwee, but I drifted in bad times. Sadly, Chibnall was one of the bad times, and I feel for Jodie, who could have been wonderful more often than she was. RTDs first run was (almost) as good as it gets, and I think Ncuti has great potential. We can only wait and hope.

to call the chibs era "meh" is to raise it to a level that it obviously can only aspire to.

@emotionalsupportostrich2480

Жыл бұрын

Utter shite is the level it sits at.

@joeespin4377

Жыл бұрын

@@emotionalsupportostrich2480i applaud your word choice

@emotionalsupportostrich2480

Жыл бұрын

@@joeespin4377 lifelong whovian since the 90s when the show was off the air and had to settle for Pertwee re-runs on BBC2 and VHS tapes. Chibnall’s run was an utter car crash and the best episodes (with the Daleks) would be considered average under Moffat.

He didn't kill.who but wounded it a bit, to the point that many regular watchers left or couldn't be bothered to tune in.

The only thing I'd say in response to your defence of Jodie is that it's true she was given such poor scripts to workwith but previous doctors would take poor scripts and their acting prowess would bring the script through and when she was given a good script on rare occasions she gives the same performance perhaps she is slightly to blame for that while she can't take it all

@davidmullen6011

Жыл бұрын

She had every chance - Paul Mcgann arrived to the role with amnesia, a lukewarm story, and perhaps an hours airtime, and yet he put such a stamp on the part in that one-off outing he became an instant fan-favourite. Sylvester McCoy was not a professional actor, he struggled through his debut season, and yet cared so much about the role he transformed it come the next season - *that's* effort, commitment. Tom Baker gave a.. LARGE performance in his debut story, playing it as purely Children's television. Come next story though he had reconsidered and gave the role a much more subdued and contained approach. You didn't see *any* of this thought or care in Whittaker's performance. All it was was a stepping stone for her, nothing more.

@RDeverall

Жыл бұрын

@@davidmullen6011 so you agree?

@davidmullen6011

Жыл бұрын

@@RDeverall Let me put it another way - It's all very well to shrug shoulders and say "Jodie had poor scripts, and it was all Chris Chibnall's fault" but Chris Chibnall has no control over how SHE herself chooses to play the part, play the individual scenes, and in general chooses to adjust her performance as a series goes on... Bradley Walsh made an impact, out of all of that cast he made the biggest impression across the board, and that isn't because he (somehow) hoovered up all the 'Good Writing' from Jodie Whittaker and the rest, it was because he went out to make the very best of what he had been given. And show just what a good character actor can do with material - you used to see the same thing in the original series with guest actors like Michael Sheard, Pauline Collins, Bernard Kay, Peter Miles, Stewart Bevan, Jessica Martin, all a few examples. I can point to neophyte Sophie Aldred also as an example of a new actor who comes in rough, but through dedication, charisma, and talent, shows herself as adapting to the material and making the very most of it... she threw herself into it. Just as Sylvester McCoy did. And the results speak for themselves.... Three seasons. Jodie Whittaker had *three* seasons to show the same dedication and qualities. But while Bradley Walsh made the most of this opportunity to show everyone how good a character actor he was, Jodie Whittaker floundered. You would think having Walsh putting such effort in, and to such success, would spur her to follow his example. To put some real thought and effort into the part she had been given. But it never entered her head... In the end the kindest assessment I can make of her is that she appears to have looked on it as Children's television, and aimed purely at the under ten's. The effort simply wasn't there from her, and as such Bradley Walsh stood out from the rest, and stole the show.

@thelegendthemyththeman4772

Жыл бұрын

Good good point

@irrevenant3

Жыл бұрын

On the one hand I agree with the basic premise - Capaldi managed to give an amazing performance with some very ordinary scripts. On the other hand, it's true that Jodie has demonstrated great acting chops in other contexts. IMO the issue seems to go beyond scripts to that Chibnall era who didn't have a clear idea of who they wanted Thirteen to be. That doesn't necessarily need to be in the scripts if Jodie understands it. Graham worked despite poor scripts because Bradley went "Affable old retiree bus driver guy? Sure, I can portray that.". Jodie had the somewhat more challenging tasks of portraying a new incarnation of a character who's been many different things at many different times, without a clear idea of who *this* Doctor was meant to be.

the fam era of Dr Who will live in infamy.

All I can say is this, I hope Jodie like Colin Baker gets some great Big Finish stories out of this that redeem her doctor in the eyes of certain fans, because like Colin Baker's 6th Doctor, Jodie 13th is badly let down by the writing and like Colin, you can see moments in certain stories which show how amazing this Doctor could be, which makes the poor writing even more egregious.

@michaeldallaway1988

Жыл бұрын

I agree as I do want Jodie to have a redemption like Colin Baker in Big Finish. The thing is 6 started off as a dislikeable and sharp guy on the show, and the idea was that he'd soften up and become more likeable as time went on - that was hampered by the binned season and Colin's sacking, but you can see the seeds of it in trial of a timelord. Come to big finish and you have the wonderful relationship with Evelyn Smythe and 6 has become a warm hearted, caring doctor. With Jodie, I'm not sure where we're supposed to be and how we're supposed to feel about her. Is her doctor supposed to be distant, or is it the writing. If she does decide to do Big Finish, I hope she gets a new TARDIS team of just her and one other, and we get time to properly develop her character the way her talent deserves.

@bleack8701

Жыл бұрын

do that, but for Capaldi

@captbuckyohare5585

Жыл бұрын

Jodie doesn't deserve better chances to shine. She shined as much as she was ever going to. The 13th Doctor deserved a better actor and better fit for the role than Jodie Whittaker. Not everyone can play the Doctor no matter how good the scripts are. Cast the wrong person and the role will eat them alive. And that's what happened.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

@@captbuckyohare5585 David Tennant (one of the greatest Doctor and a better fan than you) said that she was perfect for the role... And he played the Doctor, and played with her on Broadchurch and is a huge fan of the show, and it's his fucking job so what's your excuse ?

@inshort6831

Жыл бұрын

​@@gay4sswhovian not everyone has to agree with David Tennant

I think one thing that's telling about this era is that it's referred to as the Chibnall era and not the Whittaker era, the faults in the show in this time fall wholly on Chibbers shoulders. Jodie did everything she could with the god awful stories sent her way and I just hope she has a good run on Big Finish and/or later multi doctor stories!

@maxence2915

Жыл бұрын

I mean, as a fan of Whittaker's, you can clearly see that she just did not care about the role, she was mediocre. It really shows that she is not a fan nor she is even interested in doctor who like previous incarnation were (not just previous incarnation of the doctor but also the master, Gomez was amazing for example). Do I don't fully adhere to the "it was all Chibnall's fault" , a show is a team, if the actor and the show-runner just don't give enough of a oot about it, it will just be a mediocre version of itself. And Jodi clearly did not give one oot about Doctor Who, and it's sad, cause all of those misogynistic a**hole now thinks they were right all along and that the doctor should be a man forever. And everytime the show will try something new, they will just be reminded of how went it well the first time. So yeah, Chibnall AND Jodie got the show stuck to repeat itself until it eventually fall back into irrelevance once again cause it won't evolve.

@qoopertrooper

7 ай бұрын

@@maxence2915 Try putting effort into something where the other main person isn't. See how long you can stay steaming ahead like nothing is wrong. She was all energy and effort season one. Just look at her interviews. IF you look at the later ones she just looks put out and like she wants to leave, and I for one don't blame her at all. You're only as good as your writer, and if your writer is Chibnall you may as well quit.

Hope and forgiveness - what a beautiful way to describe Dr. 12. So much emotional punch was founded in Capaldi's time that even weaker stories were lifted by a sense of gravitas. He and Smith for me were amazing incarnations although Tenant got the big thumbs up from the majority as almost as iconic as Tom Baker. I love Ten too, but there is something about the egoless, selflessness of 11 and 12 they sticks in the heart.

@sarasunland775

Жыл бұрын

That exactly to me captures the whole arc of the Dr!! I find that, that philosophical part of the Dr is what makes the show so special!! Otherwise just another Star Trek spinoff sans the original philosophical content. So many Whovians just seem to want another Scifi show. The Dr is special!! I think Chibnall over did it with the obvious pedantic moral stuff which might have worked if occasionally but episode after episode. TOO MUCH!! If you also upset about Dr lore, I don't know why! It has mutated so much and is annoying as anything but Chib's is not the only one! I can't tell you how much it bothered me to see the tardis on an auto lift with Jodi working on it from underneath. I lost it! But I remember Tom Baker and Leila, when the savages tried to topple the Tardiss, Tom said it was impossible because of all the weight that it contains within the box made it immovable!! Where did that go a long time ago!!??

He tried to force the timeless child to work and it failed. The 13th Doctor had potential but Chris was the one getting in the way. Probably best to reveal that the elderly 11th Doctor became the host of the timeless child who evolved into pure energy and that the fugitive Doctor is from the future and was mind wiped and sent to Gallifrey's past, before the original and his granddaughter stole the Tardis, without the timelords knowing by the Division who seemed to control everything and thought they were above the laws of time and she did seem to be some kind of secret agent for the Division and her existence was probably kept off record. That the 12 regenerations limit was an unavoidable reality. Tecteun wanted her people to be like the Timeless Child, a god, but instead became demigods. Immortality was the goal and Rassilon's trap in the 5 Doctors was a means to keep the timeless child a secret, that he and Omega were in on it. Also, the Ravagers' past was the Doctor's future.

The first red flag in my mind was when in season one, there was literally zero link to any other season. You didn't even know if you were watching the same series, which was really off-putting. Chibnall realised his mistake later in the series and started bringing in some history, but it was kind of too late.

This era had so much missed potential that it’s just sad. The Doctor trying to maintain being an authoritative figure whilst being a woman is almost never addressed (except maybe The Witchfinders). We have a policewoman as a companion with Yaz. How does she balance her duty for the people on Earth with her desire to explore the universe? How does she deal with the fact that her and The Doctor are both trying to be in charge of a situation? We have Ryan as a guy who had a KZread channel and yet social media plays no part in his life. He also has dyspraxia and yet we barely see him struggle and overcome obstacles. Graham is a cancer patient and yet, apart from Spyfall and Can You Hear Me, it’s never addressed. And don’t get me started on the story concepts themselves…

I never got the dyspraxia being "inconsistent" criticism, because a disability is just one superficial aspect of a person, it doesn't need to be the focus all the time, or even most of the time, and from what I've from those who have dyspraxia, the condition is inconsistent in real life, as it can affect people in some ways but not in others. Also I believe it has been confirmed that Chibnall never originally planned to do Thasmin

@strbourne

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree with your disability point. I'm pretty sure most people who complain about that are able bodied and neurotypical lol. Disabilities are inconsistent, but also people who have them often will be masking, working against or using techniques to deal with it subtly. And disabilities are not a 0 or 100 type deal; lots of people who use wheelchairs can walk. Lots of people with dispraxia can jump on a moving conveyor belt. The problems only appear if you don't have experience with disabilities and only have media representations of disabled people as reference.

@thor6519

Жыл бұрын

I do have dyspraxia and I know a few others who have. I have it consistently and whatever happens i suffer from it but my friends don’t have it all the time and theirs is very inconsistent.

@ianresc3615

Жыл бұрын

@@thor6519 I think the issue was that they brought it up, but never mentioned it again. It's like "hey look at me! How brave I am for including another minority/disability." They didn't do it because they wanted to tell a story or define a character, they did it for the cheap pops. And every week the pushed for another "attraction" rather than focusing on the story.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

For thasmin not only that it's so good to have queer character who are actually HUMAN (you know requestioning yourself about this and all ? Like I love jack, river the doctor, Clara or bill but seriously queer people especially humans like companion shouldn't be so at ease with it) but also A.ROMANCE.DOESNT.NEED.TO.END.WITH.A.KISS. That's why 10 and Rose never kissed each other tbh

@MidnightChimey

Жыл бұрын

@@gay4sswhovian They kind of did though

Chibnall made this life long Doctor Who fan rage quit the show. That's saying something. He didn't kill it. However, I think that if he stayed on as showrunner he could have.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

And lots of news cames so cry harder and stop being hypocrite every era had this and so had moffat

Did Chibnall really want to do Dr. Who? His era felt half-arsed to me.

Great video. Summarises all my own thoughts and feelings perfectly. I'm doing a rewatch of every episode of the revival before the 60th Anniversary (currently up to Season 4) and I have this weird dread in my stomach about reaching Season 11 and beyond. I feel that says a lot in itself.

I think with this era, Chibbers thought more about how to make an impact than what good stories to tell. He had a female Doctor but he clearly didn't know how to characterise that Doctor. He had new villains but he didn't know how to make those villains memorable. He had representation all over this era but honestly just thinking about it, it really felt like he was just scoring points than delivering some compelling writing. It's sucks this era was pretty sh*t in my honest opinion, because there was potential. I'm not gonna turn this into an essay, but the writing was on the wall from the start. That post-regeneration story didn't have room to breathe, it was just in at the deep end. Anyway, Chibbers, you blew it.

This whole review was perfect... no senseless yelling, just an honest review, and even tho it wasn't most people's favourite, I wish more people would say thank you for keeping the show going, great video, bring on David, Catherine, Ncuti and Millie! ❤

Jodie seemed to be having the time of her life and I liked her a lot. I just didn’t care for the writing so I kind of forgot about Doctor Who until recently.

I think Jodie Whittaker had so much potential in the role of The Doctor but the writing let her down but hopefully The Thirteenth Doctor will done justice by Big Finish

He didn't kill Who, but he came damn close to it. No one man could destroy something as big as Who, but Whittaker could only ever do as well as the writing allowed, BUT she could have at least tried to learn about the character. It's not all her fault, but she didn't help, at all.

@DarkArtsMage

Жыл бұрын

if you look at the backstory of Chibnall...you'll see that as a child, he disagreed with how Doctor Who developed... so he decided to rewrite/fix it when he grew up! problem is, his version...is shit!

@joeespin4377

Жыл бұрын

oh he killed it

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

Chris asked her not too because he wanted an unique doctor lmao also you didn't complain when it was classical doctor or Eccleston sp why doing it now ?

@aliservan7188

Жыл бұрын

@cringe ass and old Earthbound Pikmin fan because, as the video pointed out, she played The Doctor OUT of character. There are certain characteristics that are non negotiable when it comes to the Doctor, and Whittaker was shit. EVERY other actor managed to bring their own take while maintaining the core. Only Whittaker failed

@aliservan7188

Жыл бұрын

@cringe ass and old Earthbound Pikmin fan and it's not too, it's to.

The Yaz ending is insane to me,she just said I need some space to regenerate then told her she was being abandoned by sending her the support group

When I first heard Jodie was the new Doctor, I immediately asked "has she been chosen because she was the first woman chibnall saw, or because she was the best for the role" a friend said they'd seen Jodie act before and she was "ok", then the interviews came out where she said she'd never seen Doctor Who before, as if that's something to be proud of. Now with her era over, I can say I can see how her character is the doctor, but I maintain it could've been so much better. I much prefer the Ruth Doctor and I think if we'd had her as the 13th and Jodie as the "extra" Doctor, it might've worked better, but that didn't happen. It didn't help Graham seemed so much more like the Doctor at times than the actual Doctor. Jodie felt too human at the wrong times, but then too alien at others "Yeah, I don't know what to say about your cancer, so I'll just back away" immediately springs to mind. But, I can safely say its clear Jodie had fun in the behind the scenes, and when that comes through its great. Her biggest issue is definitely her lines, which are outside her control. So, similar to Capaldi, I'm left feeling more disappointed with the character than anything. They both had so much potential, and it can definitely be seen shinning through at times, but it just gets drowned out by everything else at times.

He killed it but it's now regenerating and will come back hopefully better than ever. No pressure

@chaserseven2886

Жыл бұрын

he did not kill it, the very thought is ridiculous

@AlisonL520

Жыл бұрын

@@chaserseven2886 Maybe not but it felt like it

@progfrogg

Жыл бұрын

@@chaserseven2886 he didn't kill it... but he did strangle it.

Fantastic editing on this video well worth the wait, thanks as always rich, best who content on KZread

I had high hopes for the era and, obviously now, Chibnall can’t write Who for toffee but Whitaker’s performance was terrible in the role. With a better writer she might have done well. She certainly has done a lot better in other roles but this was not her part.

@alabastertheunicorn3204

2 ай бұрын

This!!! I swear people get so defensive of her because she is a woman and not seeing she was dreadful as the doctor. Even at its worst all the doctors were able to stamp their personality and character in the doctor, but Whitaker is almost a mishmash of the surface level takes of Tennant and Smith without the nuance. Her character seems made by committee which I cant exactly blame her 100% but still you'd think after 3 seasons that people would at least remember at least a few iconic moments. Though she really doesn't have any

13s era is completely forgettable. Jo Martin is the one real positive in my mind. Her character is the one and only thing I hunger for more screen time.

@aliservan7188

Жыл бұрын

Damn yeah! She was more The Doctor than Whittaker in 2 minutes than Whittaker was in any episode.

@davidbrowne3761

Жыл бұрын

@@aliservan7188 That is the Female Doctor Who that the fanbase wanted Jo Martin

@PsyopAgentProvocateur

Жыл бұрын

@@pnorbert2222 I’m watching Season 12 right now as they are up free on the Iplayer right now, gawd it’s more hits than miss. Most episodes feel like a chore to watch. Graham needs his own series.

This was the next video recommended to me after an unrelated video called "The Worst Line in Scriptwriting History"...

This was a good topic to watch. Everything was on point. I’ve have a video suggestion for you Rich. What would you do if you wrote Jodie’s era? Which characters would you have and not have? What would be the stories etc.

There was a near Yas and Doctor ship. Only reason River Song worked was 1, the way her meetings were at different times and different Doctors and 2 She had enough back and front story to stand on her own as well.

I think Jodie was let down by the stories because Chibnall was more interested in ticking boxes, and the companions were mostly background clutter with no real depth

My beloved, late Granny always used to say - 'Say something nice, or don't say anything at all'. So, here goes, Chris Chibnall made the McCoy era watchable and Trial of a Time Lord look well scripted, bearing in mind the man who planned it (Saward) walked out, the man who tried to fix it (Holmes) died suddenly and the people who did their best with what was left (Pip and Jane Baker) had to put up with a youthful Chibnall having a go at them about it on the telly. Also he took a short story Eric Saward wrote for the 20th Anniversary Radio Times and turned it into Who Lore (Timeless Doctor). Still, it's not as bad as Velma......

@frankshailes3205

Жыл бұрын

"Also he took a short story Eric Saward wrote for the 20th Anniversary Radio Times and turned it into Who Lore (Timeless Doctor). " ...also known as the Cartmel Masterplan (tm).

@MorristheMinor

Жыл бұрын

@@frankshailes3205 Terrance Dicks referred to Saward as 'Mad Eric' and do we really think that the person who gave us 'Warriors of The Deep' should be completely rewriting Dr Who's backstory. Still 'Legend of The Sea Devils' also made that look watchable.......

@rnw2739

Жыл бұрын

@@MorristheMinor Johnny Bynre gave us 'Warriors of the Deep' - Not Terrance Dicks.

@MorristheMinor

Жыл бұрын

@@rnw2739 Actually, the reference was to Eric Saward, not Terrance Dicks.

@rnw2739

Жыл бұрын

@@MorristheMinor Regardless, it was incorrect. Eric Saward was not solely responsible for the excrement that was 'Warriors of the Deep' TV adaptation.

The Doctor showed up & Grace died - why the frick would you want to travel with that person? They lost all believability as people right there.

Thanks for the review, Rich. Funnily enough, I think could've easily forgiven the era for all its drawbacks (maybe except the pacing) if I liked 13. After all, I don't care about all of the Moffat bs because I love 11 and 12. Sadly, it's not the case here. And it was 13's regeneration scene that finally make me fully realize why. 13 is basically a child. And not in a good way, like 11 was (old man in a young body). She's the other way around, a little girl inside a grown woman's body. She talks like one (hello, "Tag, you're it".) She acts like one, without any thought of the morality or the consequences of her actions (hello, Arachnids in the UK, Revolution of the Daleks, and the Vanquishers). She even dresses like one. Not only that, but she's also very naive and simple-minded. And again, it's not bad for the Doctor to be child-like. 11 was like that, and, from what I know, 2 was like that as well. But they had an old wise man side to them, they could be dark and menacing at times, unlike 13 who is child-like almost all the time. Even when she got serious (which wasn't often), I could never take her seriously because of her mannerisms. I mean, it worked fine for a psychotic character like Missy. But it doesn't work for the Doctor. Oh, and, in a way, 13 is the opposite of 10 (how ironic that she regenerated into David, huh). She easily let Ko Sharmus take her place and sacrifice himself in The Timeless Children, while 10 sacrificed himself for Wilf who was unimportant and was okay with dying. She genocided the Sontarans, the Daleks and the Cybermen in The Vanquishers without so much as a thought, while 10 exiled the Meta-Crisis into another universe for doing exactly that to the Daleks. 10 was morally gray, sometimes being outright evil (not to the extent of 7 but still), while 13 is just kind. Her perception of the world is white and black, good and evil (although, sometimes she confuses the two because she's a child). That's why some people even say that 13 isn't the Doctor. I just think that Chibnall, despite being a fan, didn't truly understand the depth and the complexity of the character. Here's hoping that RTD will make it right, and I will be invested in the show once again. Bring it on, Ncuti!

I don't think Dr Who can ever be killed by a bad era (McCoy would disagree) but I hope this doesn't stop future showrunners writing female doctors. I liked Jody, she had Tennant energy, which was good.

He didn't kill doctor who, just held under water until it was almost too late and now it's coming spluttering up for air

Do you have any evidence for the timeless child storyline originating in fan speculation around the ghost monument episode? Ive watched several videos talking about this era of doctor who, and I've just never heard that particular factoid before.

Until RTD was announced to be returning, I think it was. Someone even made a 5-hour video detailing exactly why. But with today's context and knowledge of better things on the horizon, it's less of a "he killed it" but "he severely wounded Who." Wounds heal though, over time.

@chrisknight2631

Жыл бұрын

Ah the JayExci video - people went mad about that video without even watching it, because of its five and a half hour run time. I watched it, and it was great.

@Rocksteady72a

Жыл бұрын

@@chrisknight2631 Jay's reaction video to the hate was almost as hilarious as the hate itself. The person spent 5 hours providing legitimate critiques, and the best others could come up with were either personal insults or dismissing it due to the runtime.

@emotionalsupportostrich2480

Жыл бұрын

Chibnall practically put the show in a bloody coma / life support. The BBC even recognise this as they’ve had to bring in RTD for the 2nd time to resurrect and save the show.

I disagree with this common idea that Jodie is completely innocent in 13's character being lacklustre. Yes she is let down by the writing and yes she is a phenomenal actor, however she never reads beyond the script, she never adds anything to the character that isn't written down in the dialogue, which is the problem because what is written down was written down by First Drafty who for a showrunner that has had such success with dramas, really struggled with characters in his era. With every Doctor that's come before Jodie there's always been a sense that the actor left a part of themselves in their incarnation and it always feels like said actor is the Doctor even outside of the role and even in other roles, when I see David Tennant I see 10, when I see Tom Baker I see 4, when I see Matt Smith in a white wig trying to marry his niece I still see 11, but with Jodie I see the lady from Black Mirror or Broadchurch, I see an actor playing a role rather than the actor become the role. Another thing going against Jodie is the fantastic work done by some of her peers; Sacha Dhawan adds so much to his Master that isn't directly spoken, his maneurisms, his facial expressions, his tone all tell you more about his Master that isn't written in the dialogue, Mandip Gill despite being generally bland pretty much created the whole Thasmin ship tacitly and I don't believe for one second Chibbers intended for it from the start, Bradley Walsh really hammered home the vulnerable side of Graham just through how he delivered his lines when talking about his cancer of Grace. I don't get why Jodie gets so much leeway by fans when other actors who added nothing to their character such as Tosin Cole got rightfully criticised for it.

I wouldn’t have thanked the writers for simply “keeping doctor who going”. Those writers had agendas and to them Doctor Who was not some classic long run series that itself is a gift. Instead it was simply a mouthpiece and soapbox to stand on to echo their own narratives. They treated Doctor Who as a means to an end.

I can't help thinking that this was going to be a female Ghostbusters situation, where they would call people sexists if they didn't like the show. The worse thing is the Doctor supporting Space Amazon.

Nothing against Jodie, but I preferred a male doctor. I do feel bad for her though. She deserved better. Getting Chibnal as a writer for Doctor Who was a mistake. It almost makes me wish Steven Moffatt was still writing for the show

Great video Rich. Well constructed, well thought out. Bring on RTD2!!!

@chaserseven2886

Жыл бұрын

its actually rtd 3

@Macapta

Жыл бұрын

I’ll never not read RTD2 as Red Ted Dedemption 2.

@saminusprime2746

Жыл бұрын

I actually read "R2D2" by mistake lol

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

And who will bring back timeless child 👀

I literally fell asleep during most of these episodes, so I appreciate the update! Cheers Rich

This was an absolutely cracking video Rich, loved your take on things ^^

Chibnall and Whittaker did their best to destroy Doctor Who and if the new specials don't reverse what they did, it will. And it is worth pointing out, that Whittaker refused to research her role, did not watch earlier episodes and decided that pulling faces, was acting. An awful woman all around.

@davidbrowne3761

Жыл бұрын

Chibnall discouraged Jodie from leaning the Lore/History of the show, what makes it worse is that David Tennant is a close friend of hers. David Tennant is a Fanboy/Super-Fan of Doctor Who she could have reached out to him for help

No Chris Chibnall didn't kill the show, but he did try his darndest, you gotta give him that

He didn't kill it in my opinion. His era and Thirteen (both how she was characterised, utilized, and yes, I'll say it, PERFORMED) damaged the brand and hurt Doctor Who, but it's not dead. That being said, bringing it back to its best isn't a formality or some easy thing to pull off. There are now deeper issues than Chibnall's writing, stories, and retcons to the lore and characters, such as the divided fandom and toxic practice of fan-baiting and outrage marketing, apathetic casual fans, the casting being more scrutinized than ever (when it was already pretty unfair and reactionary since the new era kicked off - Eccleston's too northern, Tennant's too young and dashing, Smith's really too young and weird looking, Capaldi's too old and too white etc etc.), and the fact that we're now 13 series into the NuWho era, and that's quite a daunting jumping on point for new or even returning fans.

Chris chibnall only has 3 options left to fix this. 1. [Retcon his retcon] time travel can do anything to be honest. 2. [ turns out it wasn’t real] Make all those memories/experiences turn out to be fake and part of the plan of the master to mess with the doctor, or from some other entity. 3. [noncannon] Make it turn out that this is another universe which explains the multiple doctors even though they are completely seperated from the known regenerations. And that it is not our doctor’s backstory but that of a secondary doctor from another universe. That way the 56 years of writing are preserved. Oof wrote this to late, season 13 an all

Other then effecting the regeneration cycle count, Jo Martin fits nicely in between Troughton and Pertwees Doctors in classic series 6b

@nealjroberts4050

Жыл бұрын

She does. I hold that the Division effectively provided a separate regeneration cycle as part of their secrecy.

@BigSmiggles

Жыл бұрын

Given that Troughtons Incarnation helped the third doctor and the other doctors in the anniversary specials fit into the timeline after Jamie and Zoe departed anything could've happened leading to him regenerating into Pertwee

Honestly my favorite small bit of information about why the show took a big visual step forward is they hired the person behind the John Smith VFX channel that had previously done tones of VFX DW videos that all looked great. The team should be praised because they found someone passionate for DW and super skilled and it really paid off

Chris chibnall didn’t kill doctor who. But it’s gonna be years before we wrestle the giant axe he swung at the doctors head out of the wall…

Ohmygosh yes! Been looking forward to this since you first mentioned it! Gotta find me a spare 15 minutes - I wouldn't mind it it were 50!

If RTD didn't return then Power Of The Doctor would have been the last ever Doctor Who story for god knows how long and technically yes Chibnall would have killed Doctor Who, Good job we're not in that sad timeline right now.

Chibs definitely should've written more character exploration of 13's *current* character, beliefs, and values. It's funny because I've been watching Wednesday (netflix) and while the show has a lot of cheese and eye-rolly teen comedy moments, the way they get you to care about Wednesday is really good. She really feels like the central character and is in a very doctor-like role with her companions who help her to save the day (albeit unwittingly/unwillingly at times). I wish there were more shows that manage to successfully put a female character at its centre like that.

Something I’m curious about is how The Timeless Child will be handled in the future. I messed around with a regeneration quiz on the DW website and it mentioned nothing about The Timeless Child. One answer statement that could probably but most likely not mention it is about 11 bluffing about regenerating to rid of The Cyberplanner. It said “The Doctor had no more regenerations left. That he knew of.” It could be referencing the Timeless Child, or when Gallifrey gives him a new cycle. They even mention him being given a new cycle in the quiz later on. It’s all really confusing.

@marshsundeen

Жыл бұрын

RTD might just drop it.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

RTD loved it so too bad for y'all dumbass haters but it will probably coming back

@nealjroberts4050

Жыл бұрын

I think any addressing will highlight the Master's dishonesty or gullibility on it. The essential idea that the Gallifreyan elite used the Timeless Child to become Timelords fits the presentation of their culture. The Doctor being the Timeless Child doesn't fit. Unless you redefine becoming a Timelord as becoming the Timeless Child.

Ryan’s dyspraxia was insulting- a person who has dyspraxia

Yaz was under used as a character in general so the relationship at the end felt tacked on rather than something that could have built up over time. Mandip is a brilliant person in real life. I hope to see her in more projects.

@xrotarebil

Жыл бұрын

@@pnorbert2222 She can be both at the same time.

@xrotarebil

Жыл бұрын

@@pnorbert2222 Characters can be complex, FFS. It could have been issued a source of inner conflict. Faith versus sexuality. And yes, there are religious gay people.

You summed it up perfectly... Disappointing! I was excited when Jodie’s Doctor was announced. The slightly mysterious hoodie look... a great actor. Stopped watching after second episode. I watched An Unearthly Child as first broadcast as an 8 year old. Watched every episode after as broadcast (with two episodes missed before classic series was axed) huge hope that the new series will rescue my obsession.

Watching these season felt like listening to Audio drama from a classic era Doctor you dont know; they felt like they should've been more, and yet never were. Like listening to something while knowing you're missing a key piece of the puzzle.

But he did tho. He totally marred Doctor Who. People turned off/away during his run. He dropped the ball hard and people felt disappointed. Like Star wars sequels and those Disney TV shows.

This might be a minority opinion, but I think casting Jodie as the Doctor was a mistake. Not saying casting a woman, I don't have inherent problems with that, I mean Jodie specifically. In my eyes, she's not a very good actress, she overacts everything (also in Broadchurch and Black Mirror, where I've seen her), so I cringed so hard every time she opened her mouth. Also, Jo Martin had more charisma and personality as the Doctor in one episode than Jodie in 3+ series. And the Chibnall scripts were terrible as well, there's no excuse for that. Hope we get sth better with Russell and Ncuti going forward.

Community definitely got it right in their doctor who parody. There was one pretty poor era with a female lead that most fans rejected and will subsequently be ignored.

Did you ever notice even a moment where (despite the script) there was a bit of charm or charisma from Whittaker in the role? I didn't.

Great review, Jodie definitely deserved better

Someone suggested on reddit that the big issue with the Timeless Child is that it's smashing 2 different reveals together that would've been fine either or, those reveals being pre-Hartnell Doctors and the regeneration origins. I'm inclinded to agree as honestly the idea of pre-Hartnell Doctor's on it's own isn't outrageous, it was left purposefully vague as the show went on and could be a good device for storytelling. Similarly the Timeless Child on it's own is actually quite fitting to Gallifrey and Time Lord society, pompous aristocrats who would pervert their own history to make themselves seem like benevolent gods instead of sociopaths who experimented on a child they had kidnapped. Even the Doctor being the Child isn't too outrageous, it does undermine the "Doctor is special because of what they do not who they are" angle but it's not unforgivable. Trying to smach these 2 reveals together is what leads to most of the inconsistencies and problems with it, why does the Fugitive Doctor have a blue box Tardis for example.

@gay4sswhovian

Жыл бұрын

Dude timeless child says LITTERALLY OPPOSITE why do you think that the doctor didn't open the watch ? Because they want to go forward and because they became the doctor not because for who they are but from their actions (yeah the doctor is amnesiac so do you mind explain HOW they could be influenced by their memories and past if they're AMNESIC ? )

@mattia4165

Жыл бұрын

@@gay4sswhovian "why do you think that the doctor didn't open the watch ?" Okay then why did she leave the fob watch in an accessible location instead of say throwing it into a black hole? “they became the doctor not because for who they are but from their actions “ Firstly I said they were SPECIAL because of what they were which is objectively true, the only member of an extra-universal race in this universe who became the foundation of the greatest and most technologically advanced society in this universe, just a tad special that. “(yeah the doctor is amnesiac so do you mind explain HOW they could be influenced by their memories and past if they're AMNESIC ? )” Did you read my comment? Like at all? THIS is the exact problem I was talking about, there is no explanation for how they were influenced by their past memories but it’s undeniable that they were since we know for a fact that Jo Martin’s Fugitive called herself the Doctor and had a blue police box Tardis. Again the entire point was that separating the reveals removes this problem entirely; on it’s own TTC doesn’t conflict as there wouldn’t be a “Fugitive Doctor” without the pre-Hartnell Doctor’s reveal and on it’s own the pre-Hartnell reveal doesn’t have to rely on the mind wipe that’s intrinsic to TTC.

I think The Doctor should regenerate as normal, realize the last three seasons was a strange mid-regeneration fever dream brought on by a gas leak in the TARDIS, laugh it off, yell "Alonzi!", and scamper off into the great unknown unscathed. Sure it's cliche, but at least it'll get us back on the right track.

I still stand by the idea that the Master was wrong and HE was actually the Timeless Child. I would laugh all the way to whatever afterlife there is if instead of retconning it, they just went that route.

Something I think gets somewhat missed when discussing the era is it’s genre episodes, specifically the historicals and lovecraft horror stories. They felt very fresh and exciting and we’re definitely her best

Worst era of Doctor who ever

The first 5 episodes or so of this era made me completely drop Doctor Who for 5 years. Doctor Who is one of my favorite series ever, but Chibnall somehow made me drop it for that long. I went back and watched the entire era during a rewatch after the 60th was announced, and god I had no clue that it would only get worse after I watched it. Having just watched the second 60th special, I'm so happy that Doctor Who is back and is hitting the ground running. It makes me so happy to be back with this series, and to see it still alive and on the upswing. It's great to see, and I'm very happy to find out where it goes from here.

R.I.P DOCTOR WHO 1963 - 2017

@MightyMarioBros378

Жыл бұрын

nah the Doctor Died 1966 cry harder

The only way forward is for Chibnall the hack and Whittaker the bland's entire era to be erased and ret-con into never having happened at all. Have the next Doctor wake up saying "I just had the most terrible dream..." and someone nearby asks "what was it about?" and have the Doctor say "I... can't remember. Oh well, off we go!" Entirely erase the whole Timeless Child and Flux and all that BS. None of it ever fit into Doctor Who in any way. The entire original point of the Doctor was that he's just some random nobody that goes around doing good deeds. He was never meant to be special in any way, never be some all powerfull universally important being; he was just some guy that doesn't follow the teachings of the other Time Lords. He shows the viewers that you don't have to be famous or important to make impactful changes and do good deeds. Personally, I really _hate_ that Chibnall dragged the Master back into things. When you've got a long running series, you need to build up long running arcs to keep people engaged, but you also _need_ to _properly end_ those arcs to give your fans closure. The Masters permanent death, being killed by himself as Missy just as he was starting to shift a little to the good side, was a perfect end to the character, and he should've been left dead there.

It quickly became unwatchable for me. "Must miss TV". Prior (new era) companions were smart and challenging for the Dr. This group seemed barely able to tie their own shoelaces. The way JW dressed and the accents made me think of "Last of the Summer Wine" in space. A tough image to get out of your head. I heard one reviewer call JW "Dr. Scrunchy Face", definitely her go-to expression. The preachy plotlines? We have David Attenborough and various other unctuous BBC documentary presenters for that (I live outside of the UK now, so, thankfully, don't have their names). I will give the new one a chance though.

its the old question, are you writing a story with subtext or are you writing for a subject with an underlying story. 13 was politics with an underlying story, 9-12 was story with varying subtexts.

Chiball 'P*****' away his fan boy opportunity. He didn't do right by the Doctor, and REALLY didn't do right by Jodie Whitaker...

Jodie...is still very sub par in my opinion, she felt passionless in front and behind the camera. Her rare presence outside the show was bland and corporate. What did she do to cheer people up, to make a difference? It seems she rode it out for the paycheck. Jodie can act well, but can't act as the Doctor. I feel bad for saying it but I don't feel she deserves to be defended as much as she is.

Yes, haven't watched an episode after the child thing where supposedly the doctor was killed over and over again to learn the secret of regeneration. I feel terrible for a great actor like Jodie to have been put through the 3 seasons acting in that guys show.

Chibs wasn't a good ambassador for the show. He rarely gave interviews, and when he did, he didn't speak with the same enthusiasm that Davies and Moffatt had previously, and Davies has again subsequently. Chibs didn't engage with the audience. He gave Doctor Who Magazine little behind the scenes access and thus made the magazine during his tenure so boring. He was not a showrunner. No wonder the viewing figures were crap.

something I like to call Chibnall's gun , if an important piece of information is introduced and highlighted it will be ignored and forgotten about later