Thank Todd for putting together some really concise information that’s relevant, but easy to digest. Also: you have a fantastic narrator’s voice. ;)

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

THanks Todd for explaining the color space issues so simply and clearly. Always enjoy your content and knowledge sharing.

One of the best explainations I have ever seen on this subject!

Finally understand color spaces thanks to this clear and concise video! Thanks, Todd!

Very very intuitive and helpful, thank you!!

Great video, just the information I needed!

this is really helpful, packed of info & straight to the point. thanks Todd

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

Not really. If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

Great explanation Todd, thanks!

Thanks Todd, most helpful.

Amazing explanation! Thank you!

Good informative video Todd.

Concise and clear as always, Todd. I'd like to know more about your workflow, i.e., when done with post, what final formats you keep off to the side...a master TIF or DNG in Adobe RBG and a copy in sRGB for web, etc? Do you process 2 copies, that is, one for each (switch your monitor to Adobe RBG, edit, and save, then switch your monitor to sRBG and edit again to ensure monitor renderings and the sRBG version is as good?)

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

Yes it was simple, I learned something today. Thank you.

Thank you! 😁

Great explanation. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing 💡💡

Great explanation sir..

Very interesting video. I definitely learned something. Thanks.

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

Great, thank you very much!

Nice one. Delving into the confusing world of buying a new monitor and this is helpful thanks

Good short explanation.

I was just thinking about this, as I was starting a new editing session

Great video. Thank you.

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

Thank you...

Very well done, indeed. Thanks!

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

Thanks for the information. Great video as always. By the way, you have changed the editing your videos recently, no blacks, like no contrast. I don't know, personally I prefer 2 month ago 🙂

I round trip in prophoto and output in adobergb. I believe that’s the best way of maintaining integrity…

We have to be careful, I think, in referring to the "number" of colors in a color space, and saying that one space has "more" colors than another. The number of available colors is a function of the bit depth. If the colors are digitized with 8 bits, there are 2^8 colors available for each of the three colors (R, G, and B). This number is the same for all color spaces, since it is a function of the sensor and the digitizing process. So all color spaces have the same number of colors. It's just that they are spread across a different range of colors. This implies that although the "larger" space has colors that the "smaller" space doesn't, so too does the "smaller" space have colors that the "larger" one doesn't.

Your Epson photographic printer (its inks - and some Canon or HP printers maybe too) may have a colour space larger even than Adobe RGB. If you want to use this, then that is a challenge in the edit phase, but it is not impossible ... Note that choice of paper impacts colour space.

Another great video! Question - When you pass an image off to a printers, do you export it as AdobeRGB also?

Great explanation, but I come to a different conclusion. Since nearly everyone who views my photos on a phone/tablet/laptop/desktop will see them in P3, I prefer to edit on a monitor that shows me what they see. So that's either a P3 monitor, like the Apple Studio Display (lots of cheap options, too), or a monitor that covers both P3 & AdobeRGB like the latest BenQs, or LG Oled, or XDRs. I find viewing photos on AdobeRGB-only monitors sort-of pointless, since saturated REFLECTED greens in prints will look different anyway, & I won't really know if they need adjusting until I print. Plus, those greens will of course print exactly the same whether you're using an AdobeRGB or P3 monitor. Again, the PROJECTED light version of AdobeRGB-only will be seen by NO ONE ELSE, except by folks who have an AdobeRGB-only display. Not many people. & AdobeRGB-only monitors are hamstrung so you won't see the nice reds in P3 ... but everyone on Instagram, Flickr, etc will. So ... yeah, I don't get why folks think AdobeRGB-only monitors are a good thing, in the context of a P3-dominated world. Unless you're ONLY printing & the photos you're working on will never be seen on other people's devices. But I can't imagine you'd want that outside of an industrial environment. Apologies for the all-caps, I feel like I've got to put out a fire.

@kiffaaaa

4 ай бұрын

This is such a great take on this subject! Thank you! I work with Eizo, BenQ and Apple Studio Displays and my head is spinning every time I think about this topic. My experience is that when working on my Eizo ColorEdge CG279X monitor I feel safe sending the images to print for magazines or boards (I work as a retoucher), but the same images are also going online on Instagram and it could've looked better. When I flip the scenario and use my Apple Studio Display, I've experienced that the prints look way off, especially in the red area. But it looks correct on Instagram on Apple devices. Finally, I feel like the Apple Studio Display hides a lot of blacks and highlights. When swapping an image from the Studio Display to the Eizo, the Eizo reveals information in the blacks that the Studio Display does not show. This is critical.

@RaphaelMatto

4 ай бұрын

@@kiffaaaa do you have the issues w/shadows on the Studio Display even after calibration? I see about the same amount of shadow detail compared to my BenQ.

@Javier.Elias.

24 күн бұрын

Hi @RaphaelMatto I tthought sRGB is actually the most used color range on displays nowadays or even browsers like Chrome or Firefox. So wouldn't it make more sense to export photos on sRGB for monitors and AdobeRGB in case of printing?

@RaphaelMatto

24 күн бұрын

@javier.elias good question, my comments were abt display color space, not exported file colorspace. No, most displays that exist these days (phones, tablets, laptops) are P3, not sRGB. No, printer color spaces do not match AdobeRGB exactly, printers should be profiled with a ColorChecker and that profile should be used for printing. No, all browsers support P3 these days, as well as some surprising color spaces, like ProPhoto.

As James Taylor sang, “deep greens and blues are the colors I choose”. I always edit in Adobe RGB, but I’m surprised at the number of labs that ask for sRGB files. And yes, I’m old! 😀

even if I mostly don't utilise the whole color space available, I am still going with Adobe RGB (better having more cubic inches under the hood, then needed) :D

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

Use prophoto 'instead".

In order for the larger color spaces to function within the same number of bits they have to “spread” the colors out. This can result in banding

Thanks for make this great video ! Very well explained, I have a question ima an artist ,. I have good pictures(photos taken of my art) and I need to send them to a client so he can print it ,.. do I need to buy an adobe rgb monitor to display them on it and fine tuning them or a good calibrated srgb would be enough since im not going to print them ? In other words it is still usable /worth to use adobe rgb to tweak the images if Im not going to ptint ? Thanks

great video ! good talker . again downside that aka log-ish blacks

Great summary. Question: I purchased a MacBook Air 15 with the P3 color gamut on the display. There was an optional software display setting that allowed me to select Adobe RGB as the color gamut. Is my Mac Book Air 15 display really changed from factory DCI-P3 to Adobe RGB now? This question challenges Apple support. How can I tell?

Whitewall actually works with sRGB not adobergb sadly.

Mr. Dominey, what if we're using the Dehancer plugin, which requires working in sRGB? Do we convert after editing in Dehancer to Adobe RGB for printing?

Hi Todd, thanks once again for this fantastic video! y question is: is it necessary or does it make any difference setting the color space to AdobeRGB in the camera too if you're working with AdobeRGB set in the monitor?

@iefie

Ай бұрын

nope

Thanks for the excellent explanation. I remain a bit confused, though. My older (2017) iMac has a long list of "color profiles under "Displays" in its :settings - including Adobe RGB, Prophoto, and SRGB. If I select "Prophoto" in the iMac settings am I not seeing "Prophoto" in the display? Similarly, if I select "Adobe RGB" in iMac settings am I not seeing Adobe RGB in the display - and likewise with SRGB? NOTE: I am printing on an Epson P900 - so my goal is to edit on screen in a color space matching the best color space I can use for the P900.

For print production most agencies i work for demand ECI RGB V2 for the pictures…

Actually thinking of benq sw240 but it's 2k is that ok as photography most of the time

great topic and great answer . but in my experience you could miss a spot in your thought there are some photographer use sRGB profile in their camera when shooting only JPEG and they are satisfied either them or the client when they hold a print or just claim it digitally to use only on display , i mean about this because i got a JPEG file of large weeding photography they twic nothing on colors but only play with color temperature using kelvin depend on the scene , N.B the printer is fujiflim DE-100 the setting is portrait mod 0 CMKY and only modify the density +1 or -1 its depend sometimes more me including my self i really enjoy the feel of color of those print

Thanks for this explanation. I just realized that on my camera I set color space sRGB. So with AdobeRGB (second option available) probably I can get better result.

@iefie

Ай бұрын

if you make photos in RAW then it doest matter what color profile you use in the camera body

@LORY0021

Ай бұрын

@@iefie thanks

I am watching this video on a screen that is at best an sRGB device, using software (Firefox) that probably operates in sRGB (though I don't know this for sure). How is it, then, that when the color space diagram is shown, I see colors that are outside sRGB?

What's about the Rec 2020?

Colour space is such a confusing topic! Until recently my editing settings were AdobeRGB but i think when saving an image to jpeg the editing software was set to save as srgb. Recently though I've started to save images as webp and I suspect that there was no setting to save as srgb. My first few images saved as webp looked dark and lacking colours once uploaded to Instagram. After some searching on Google I made some changes so that I'm editing within srgb from the outset. Am I missing out doing so? Should I edit in AdobeRGB and if so how can I save images as webp that will look right once uploaded to social media. Finally I always though working in AdobeRGB throughout was for those printing their images at home. Most professional labs I know seem to state they want images in srgb so I was confused to hear you say labs are used to receiving images in AdobeRGB.

Todd are you still using a BenQ monitor? If so what color profile are you viewing in when editing photos? I recently purchased a PD3220U and have been using it in M-Book color mode which has a much richer contrast than S-RGB or P3. I figure if most of my work is viewed on devices then probably half or more are using Apple products so.....

@ItsFritzDaCat

6 ай бұрын

Apple is not as popular as you think

Thanks Todd! I also use Adobe1998, camera, monitor and Photoshop (raw) because I always did for 20 years, but I'm always freaked out by how different (bad) images look in windows file explorer? is this what others see? also, more of my work is now used on web rather than print. does web convert to SRGB? so should i be using SRGB all the way though? would this give more consistency between what I see in PS and others see on their devices.

@iefie

Ай бұрын

edit in adobe rgb and convert to srgb.

ProPhoto enters the room, lightrooms default colorspace... Weird right?

With one prerequisute though, the monitor needs to be good enough in order to produce full ARGB in front of everyone editing the photo.

Hi Todd: Thanks for creating and sharing this video. I was wondering where does ProPhoto RGB enter into the discussion? Regards, Keith

@chrispeden979

6 ай бұрын

ProPhoto RGB is the biggest color space. LR uses it until export to preserve all the color within the raw file even though some your monitor won’t be able to display.

@_Name_

6 ай бұрын

@@chrispeden979 That's true in general, but don't forget about well known LAB. Some editing procedures are better to be performed in this particular widest color space.

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

Yes, it is a mistery why he did not even mention it, nor explains about it hereafter . Use it, as long as working-master file as possible. That simple.

@davidmilisock5200

6 ай бұрын

I process all my RAW files to 16 bit Prophoto RGB tif files. I then continue with 16 bit Prophoto for secondary edits. I work my way to 16 bit Adobe RGB for all print and then to 8 bit sRGB for digital and web display. This process preserves original image data as much as possible for the future.

@davidmilisock5200

6 ай бұрын

@@_Name_ so few people talk about using LAB anymore. I use it quite a bit with images for dry toner print that have malformed color conversions. A great tool.

Does it matter? If you shoot "raw only" stills, then you can forget White Balance in camera because whatever the number, your raw image data stay the same. The WB number ends up in the meta data and if you raw process in Adobe Camera Raw (the Develop tab in Lightroom Classic) then the WB number is used for its on screen rendition. I set my camera to WB=Cloudy full time and it works well. The camera does not need to apply AI to figure out the number when you set Auto-WB. It just stores the cloudy WB and tint numbers in the meta data. Then the essential question is if, and if yes where and how, a camera does things differently, in raw, when you change the colour space setting. If the raw data are not changed then it is the same story as with WB. I suggested my camera brand to hide parts of the menu structure that are not applicable depending on settings. So, if I shoot raw only and colour space does not impact my raw file, then why do I see the menu option? The catch here is that the camera has an electronic viewfinder and rear display for which in camera raw processing happens. And as soon as you shoot movie, there is a notion of raw processing too, more or less, depending on the format.

Curious you focused on colors that P3 does not cover but aRGB does... but what about the other part, the part of colors that P3 colors but not aRGB, care you comment?

Lightroom uses prophoto color space until you choose a different type when exporting, or am I very wrong here ?

@chrispeden979

6 ай бұрын

This is correct

@_Name_

6 ай бұрын

Yepp.

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

what about rec2020

ok, so p3 is an intermediate quality between adobe rgb and s rgb. Is there a situation where choosing s rgb over p3 would still be beneficial ? To make the fullest out of dci-p3, should I shoot photos in Adobe Rgb, with my camera rather than S Rgb ?

@_Name_

6 ай бұрын

The answer seems to be obvious, I guess. sRGB color space is still more suitable for web although some web-browsers support Adobe RGB color profile embedded into a file. So any color space is the choice for any particular task or way of publishing the file, if You will.

@davidturner5

6 ай бұрын

The answer depends on where you think your image will be seen. In a way, it's the fundamental question behind Todd's video, but he doesn't really address it directly. When you choose to export to Adobe RGB, P3, or sRGB, you are in a way choosing the language that a screen or printer will use to translate the data (the ones and zeroes) of your image on your hard drive into the data (the ones and zeroes) that will produce pixels on the screen (or print) for the viewer to see. Any given screen or printer understands certain languages with more or less perfection. If a screen's specifications says that it covers 99% of the sRGB spectrum, that means that the screen can understand the "sRGB language" with 99% accuracy. So when you export your image from Lightroom using the sRGB profile (or "language"), the screen will understand 99% of the intention and reproduce it on the screen with 99% accuracy. So what happens when your screen doesn't "speak" the Adobe RGB profile and you send it an image in Adobe RGB? Screens are usually manufactured in a way that tells them to translate (display) an image using sRGB if they receive it in a language they don't understand. In other words, they can understand a little of the Adobe RGB message, enough to do their best guess in sRGB, but it's going to be a bad translation. It will translate something, but a some of the fine meaning (the subtle color differences) will be lost, compressed, or muddied. In this case, your screen doesn't have the "language" to understand what Adobe RGB is saying, but it knows it has to translate *something*, so it uses its native language. So your question is better understood as, "Is there a situation where choosing [a color space that almost every screen can accurately translate] over [a color space that most - but not all - screens can accurately translate] would still be beneficial?" One answer could be that you're unsure if many people will be seeing an Adobe RGB color space image on screens that cannot translate (display) Adobe RGB images. If that happens, most people will be seeing the "badly translated" version of your image, meaning the converted sRGB version. Some people will have the good screens (the screens that can fully understand the Adobe RGB language) and your image will look its best. But if you think that most people don't have screens that can translate Adobe RGB or P3, then you would choose sRGB. You would be intentionally limiting the colors in your photo by choosing sRGB this way, but you have to remember - this is crucial - that the screen you're going to see the image on can't display those advanced colors anyway. So what are you really losing by choosing sRGB? There is, in fact, a benefit to still editing in Adobe RGB (or P3 or ProPhoto RGB) even if you're planning on exporting in sRGB. But that's a slightly different topic. The key is to first understand where your image is going to be seen (screen or print) and work backwards from there.

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

If it holds true that working all along with the widest colorspace Prophoto in order to have files with most possible flexibility and least degradation during editing, then why miss the opportunity to say it here ?

Should we set our camera to shoot in ARGB or sRGB?

@kiffaaaa

4 ай бұрын

Doesn't matter if you shoot raw. If you're shooting in jpeg only, or JPEG + RAW, your camera will give you a choice of color space for the JPEGs. I'd recommend using AdobeRGB there. But again, if you're shooting RAW only, then you don't need to worry about any of the color space settings in your camera, they won't have any effect.

@steven871

4 ай бұрын

great tip thank you@@kiffaaaa

How does an Adobe RGB file display on a screen that hasn't such a wide colour range?

@_Name_

6 ай бұрын

Approximation. Conversion near the same way, the software like Photoshop does.

@IvoPavlik

6 ай бұрын

Depends on the gamut mapping/clipping used...

@sdrtcacgnrjrc

6 ай бұрын

I think I was getting mixed up -- I had heard if you convert an image to CMYK it won't display properly on regular monitors

ProPhoto is supposed to have an even wider gamut than Adobe RGB.

Do I wrong? I am using my calibrated monitor using hardware calibration. I definitely try to use AdobeRGB?

I've always been told to use the largest color space possible when editing and to take the "losses" (in moving from color spaces) at the end of the worldflow or as close to it as possible. Obviously sending files from say Lightroom (which uses Melissa which I think is a variant of ProPhoto RGB but still larger than Adobe RGB) to a third party plug-in, sometimes it has to be reduced to ADobe RGB, so I've started to wonder if I should just use that as a default, and then when exporting, export to sRGB and for print purposes use either Adobe RGB or sRGB depending on what the print lab suggests. Most modern prints though, will support sRGB and can you get good prints from such printers, so I don't think using Adobe RGB is as big of a deal as it used to be or if you're not using lab color for example or doing commercial publications (which may still want things in Adobe RGB). And if you're working on scree/web-only content (photos that will only be posted to the web with no real intention of printing) then by all means I would use sRGB (you sort of have to for web-based images). But I'm still a bit old fashioned and prefer to use Adobe RGB (and have my cameras set to use this color space as well) as I said, I like to have the flexibility of changing to a smaller color space as needed, and not be forced into a smaller color space (ADobe RGB is plenty as very few displays -- if any -- can actually render the full ProPhoto RGB spectrum, or P3 for that matter; but many can do 90%+ of Adobe RGB and even more can cover all or most of sRGB. Long story short, I don't think it's as a big of a concern as it used to be, unless you are perhaps doing things that require the utmost highest level of color accuracy and are printing, then there may be some benefits from using ADobe RGB (or a larger color space).

@AR-vf7vg

6 ай бұрын

Sorry I only red you in diagomal. I Think you got it right (if) : use always prophoto as working masterfile. (Lightroom offer printpreview-copies that can help...)

The "best" answer is simple, if you dont print or display for professional use, ie; getting paid, it simply does not matter, use sRGB. If you are getting paid, ie; a pro, then you should already know what you need.. For the everyday photographer - sRGB. Everyone else - Pro-Photo RGB. See simple😊

This image of the Macaw on Apple's presentation in sRBG is extremely fake, it looks like a print on newspaper paper. But, the thing is, working on a wide color space doesn't mean you are going to have all the colors available in that space. Regular people don't print photos anymore. I think this fall more on the fine art side from my perspective. Even for designers and illustrators is really hard to use extremely saturated colors.

For editing there is a rule: the more the better.

@marysia9679

6 ай бұрын

Not always buddy

@-_ch40s_

6 ай бұрын

@@marysia9679 Always. You can downgrade later (for the specific usage).

@_Name_

6 ай бұрын

That's why the color profile which is an analogue of ProPhoto RBG is used in Lightroom by default to render RAWs.

Didn't mention Pro RGB.

@_Name_

6 ай бұрын

And what about time code 07:26? Did you watch the whole video?

@JohnMacLeanPhotography

6 ай бұрын

7:21

Don’t like this low contrast desaturated look of your video, especially on my 77 inch HDR tv - it looks lifeless! 💀

@cncmediapro

2 ай бұрын

Really? I thought it looked cinematic and nice...very smooth skin too,