What are your experiences with this sort of thing? Thanks for checking it out!

@fjborg6978

10 ай бұрын

My experience is that guitarists are never fully sated in their quest for some barely quantifiable effect. That is entirely understandable for the newbie who wants to sound like so and so but a fairly accomplished player is chasing his/her tail. With high gain playing the differences evaporate instantly.

@robertduvall7392

10 ай бұрын

Great VIDEO! Harmonics make the world go around! I describe what is actually happening below. Both the natural sound a guitar has, and the sounds acquired through distortion and digital sampling and effects that overcome the natural sound are valid choices. One does not replace the other; both are there to use.

@PaulEubanks

5 ай бұрын

If a pickup amplifies anything other than magnetic string vibration, it's because it's gone microphonic. The one you tested which doesn't pick up wood vibrations has likely been properly wax potted and hasn't gone microphonic.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

5 ай бұрын

Thanks @@PaulEubanks, you are missing a small piece of the puzzle there, I'll definitely get a vid out soon, cheers!

@valueofnothing2487

3 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar I am unclear what you are doing because you did not explain the other pickup, and what it is doing. If you wanted to measure the effect of resonance on the body, why not compare a pickup that is attached to the body and one that is not? For example, you can screw a pickup to the body, then unscrew it, and take careful measurements and see if there is a difference in tone. You use of guitar effects I did not understand, since it takes place after the signal chain. Duncan from DKG Custom says he has found no effect of resonance, but his results are difficult to read and his video is long and meandering: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fYh_yKqkeL2cobQ.htmlsi=fqVUUaNtUDWoTml1 LaPeddra Lera used a lego frame to measure a pickup in the guitar and one above it and found differences, but it is unclear it his setup doesn't introduce other differences in frequencies kzread.info/dash/bejne/ooOMza58ZMfffbA.htmlsi=uCHFaRew4EHl3wCS

This has long been my issue with the dreaded tonewood debate, everyone's arguing the wrong question. Instead of asking "does wood change the tone of a guitar?" the question should be "How does the interaction of the wood with the pickups affect the tone of the guitar?". The answer is, as you've shown here, is entirely dependent on the type of pickup, and the people screaming from both sides of the debate can't come to a resolution because they're debating the wrong question although interestingly it turns out that both sides are right, and each will swear black and blue that the other side is wrong. Thankyou for injecting some sense into the situation, I am subbed.

@void_snw

6 ай бұрын

Well.. we can swap pickups of the same type, and as long as we normalize the volume they'll sound very very close. We can swap bodies, and as long as the string to pickup setup and action height is the same, it'll sound so close you won't be able to tell if you kept swapping the track without being told when it happens. And if the vibration mattered at all, we would be looking at pickguard-mounted pickups and plastic-pickup-mount mounted pickups with disgust. Not to mention solid mounted bridges and tailpieces vs floating bridges or a bigsby setup tailpiece.. It plays no part in tone. It'd be pretty badass if it did, ngl. On the other hand, we have piezo pickups which pick up vibration, rather than inductance. There we have an entirely different story.

@iloveaviation-burgerclub-a8145

5 ай бұрын

So lets discuss the obviously right set of questions. 1st What physical principle(s) is/are used in a pickup to generat signal Answer: Induction 2nd What kind of signal is exclusively used to generate sound in the amplifier? Answer: Current 3rd How is current generated in a pickup? Answer A metal string vibrates next to the core of a coil 4th What else can add current to the output on which physical principle? Nothing. So, conclusion, whatever is disussed shall respect physics as far as relevant for the discussed question. If there is no secondary induction caused by the body to swing there is nothing to amp up and nothing to listen to. Simple as that. Now here we go. If you like to have anything to work with you have to find a way to generate current which what you want to appear t the signal output. If keen enough you can choose from various physical principles to generate current. Insuction, piezo-effect, damn solar sensors reacting to the stage lighting or what ever weired but legit thing you have in mind to make your crowd move or your art work for you. All kinds of sensors from temperature over hall to pressure can be used active as well. My head goes boom when inspired by this video I think about this possibilities. Even fields could be added to the axe or a linear sensor down the nec to maybe used to control a wah 🤯 There is no need for esotherics once you learned something variable to challenge your imagination with. Love y'all guys. Feel inspired.

@justaguy2365

2 күн бұрын

I've always said that tonewood isn't about the sound but the vibration and the way vibration causes you to interact with the guitar

You would need to measure the size of the magnetic field of the "echo" pickup to be sure it isn't sensing the strings at the outer limits of its magnetic field before you can say it isn't being affected by the strings. It you were to use nylon strings and still got a signal from the pickup I would say you are on to something. Just sayin'. Thanks for the thought experiment.

@danielpowers4787

10 ай бұрын

Yes. Either this, or don’t mount the pickup to the guitar at all.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, when the pickup is popped of the back of the guitar and not touching the body the effect is gone. I used this guitar extensively when designing Echo Coils it was a massive help, cheers :)

@iridios6127

6 ай бұрын

@78tag All this is not important. This “sound” comes from the rattling of a poorly assembled pup - the infamous “microphonic” effect. It is extremely unlikely that anything will be heard on a clear channel. 2 teaspoons of wax - and it will all disappear.

@jasonjayalap

6 ай бұрын

Or remove the strings and whack the guitar with your hand or something.

@A.lee1312

5 ай бұрын

If you've ever played a non-wax potted pickup you'll very quickly hear how it picks up body resonance. say something like a Gibson Burstbucker - non wax potted. Even without strings youd be able to tap the body of the guitar and you'll hear it. a lot of vintage pickups weren't wax potted which made them "microphonic" and mechanical vibrations within the pickups would be part of the sound of the pickup unlike wax potted pickups in which all the space in the coils and pickup are filled in with wax, removing any vibrations within.

Are you sure its the body vibration and not the magnetic field changes of the strings and maybe even the change of the magnetic field of the other pickups from the vibrating strings? The nature of guitar pickups is that they puck up magnetic field changes and not other sources of vibrations.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

It's definitely the body vibrations 100%, cheers!

@herrunbekannt3822

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar How do you explain that? Is that a Piezo pickup on the back? I really wonder how a pickup that is by design just sensitive to (electro) magnetic field changes able to pick up vibrations of wood. Edit: ... (electro) magnetic field ...

@JumboJimbo015

10 ай бұрын

@@herrunbekannt3822 My guess is the pickup he makes is slightly microphonic, which can pickup the body vibrations. That's why pickups get wax potted, to keep from being microphonic. It cuts down on those extraneous noises, like you're arm rubbing on the body, hitting a piece of the metal parts, or undesirable feedback.

@tomhead

10 ай бұрын

But the meters on screen don't register his speaking voice or the sounds of his hands touching the guitar. Very very strange. @@JumboJimbo015

@JumboJimbo015

10 ай бұрын

@@tomhead that’s why I said slightly microphonic, and not fully. If it were fully, we’d be hearing all that other noise.

That’s really interesting, we have all talked about the resonance of the body of the guitar, so it is very interesting to actually see that

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

"I wanted to mount a pickup on a guitar body, so I decided to build a guitar"... is like me saying I wanted to take a cruz so I built a ship. That's about as all-in as it gets. lol I truly have always thought that a microphonic P90 in a jazzbox hollowbody is it's own creature for sure.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Haha, Yeah thats how I tend to work :)

👍Interesting! - - 🤔Throw out the rule book and lay a mini single pickup under fret - 12. Let's see what happens.

@rofflestomp684

10 ай бұрын

Zappa did exactly that to his SG with a piezo pickup back in the 70's.

Geek out with me. It matters. What makes the guitar body vibrate? The strings, right? So, the strings are very well coupled mechanically to the body to transfer that vibration. Keep that in mind. Now, when the body wood begins to resonate from this transferred vibration, it vibrates at its own range of frequencies. Remember, the strings caused the body to vibrate. As the body vibrates, that is transferred through the bridge back into the strings. What you get in the strings is the sum of the normal natural string vibration and wood resonance from the body coupled back into the strings. NOTHING in this system is isolated. And while most pickups are microphonic, and some of the sound is microphonically induced, what you are actually hearing for the most part is the sound of the strings plus the vibrations of the body within the strings. This whole idea of experimentation to resolve the argument on body wood involvement in the sound of a guitar could definitely be done, but no one has done it correctly yet. Nor do most understand that complex instrumentation needs to be involved. So, we have all of these half-baked attempts to go at it, and nothing is truly proven one way or the other. Let's say you attach the string to a piece of steel I-beam. That I-beam is going to resonate when you pluck the string. That resonance will be coupled back onto the string through the bridge, and if you capture the signal and analyze it understanding the resonance qualities of steel, you will definitely see the signal induced back onto the string. Nothing is isolated. Nothing. I can answer questions. I have understood this idea for decades. Some people think mistakenly that because the wood is so dense on a solid body guitar, it cannot possibly change the sound of the string. It only serves as an anchor point for the bridge, and there is no involvement of that body in the actual sound of the guitar. But a hollow body guitar does have that naturally, because the top is thin, and it somehow imparts enough signal back into the strings to show up in the pickup. One has a reason, while the other is somehow exempt from the physical phenomenon of system involvement - all parts of the system. And these people look at me as if this is the final word. All I can do is laugh and tell them, you're right. You are absolutely right as I walk away once again. As I said - this could be set up and proven. You will have to have access to some pretty sensitive transducers and expensive equipment, but it can be done. On more item now that you are thinking about it: Woods are all different and have different resonance frequency ranges. Every time a wood piece resonates, you will also get harmonics of the fundamental frequency in the wood's vibration. That adds a richness to the sound - harmonics. Now consider that many guitars are made from several woods in one system. Les Paul guitars have a Honduran mahogany body of significant thickness, and a maple cap. The neck is also mahogany. The nut is a point of transfer just like the bridge, and so what the neck is doing vibration-wise responding to the strings also gets back into the motion of the strings. It is a system. The wood motion feeds back into the strings - it is feedback. Maple is different than mahogany, so it has its own resonance and harmonics, and the bridge is also anchored in both the maple and the mahogany. The neck is cantilevered off of the thick body, and out at the nut it is doing something entirely different than what is going on at the bridge on the body. All of it is getting back into the strings, and therefore into the pickup through induction, and any microphonics the pickups have will also add. Nothing is isolated. Everything is vibrating. One part cannot vibrate without affecting the other parts of the system. Different levels of microphonics, especially when compression is involved will have a significant impact - adding to the sound already induced into the string vibration. 😊

So you need microphonic pickups to hear body resonance?

Thanks for settling the whole question

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Great content. I have always railed against wax potting for this reason. Don't get me wrong, a highly microphonic pickup is pretty useless and qualifies as "broken" but a pickup that has no microphonic properties at all is "dead" to my ears. When I, much like yourself I am sure, started out winding my own PAF replicas I quickly realised that potting just isn't necessary or indeed desirable if you wind the coil with appropriate tension and linearity of turns per layer (TPL) e.g. machine not scatter wind. I never had a problem with microphonics in any of the PAFs I made and what mechanical resonance was imparted was hugely desirable. For me the magic happens in mixed TPL and tension coils.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Yes for sure, there are definitely a lot of factors when building pickups. I had to develop a process call "Wax Sealing" to build Echo Coils because "Wax Potting" is one of the main things that takes away this affect, cheers!

That is incredible!!!!! Oh man that gives me so many ideas for bodies

Waylon ... subbed today. Been watching for several days. you rock young man. As a 60 year old guitarist and a DIY modder, your caps Gizmo is what got me! Freely giving for all to see how to do it, has actually convinced me to buy one from you, as well as other products I am interested in. I understand alot of people cannot afford items as such in this economy and your willingness to help a brother out is commendable. Keep the wisdom coming and.many thanks to you and your family.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

9 ай бұрын

Thanks I really appreciate it, cheers :)

This is the coolest video I've seen in a LONG time

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, I really loved making it!

Great explanation and experiment! I know what you’re talking about when you say different guitars and pickups all have a different feel and playability. I have about 28 guitars now ranging from 1962 up to the present day and every single one has a different sound and feel when you play them. Just like different amp and speaker combinations can also feel and sound different. 🤘🤘

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Nice, thanks!

I first heard about it with Chris Buck’s signature pickups, where they said, they used much less wax potting for the same reason. Would love to hear pickups like these in a 335, I guess the effect would be more pronounced?

@lorenzo.n

10 ай бұрын

You're right, if you use less wax you have a microphonic pickup, that's it.

You do realise that the Tonewood Mafia ® is going to watch the first half of this video and start posting "I told you so" across every communications and social network platform, don't you? 😉

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Haha, I know it a slightly controversial subject!

I noticed a big difference between the Les Paul style glued-in neck/body and the Fender bolt-ons regarding guitar body resonance. Also, it could have something to do with the tune-o-magic bridge. I prefer feeling the tone vibration through the wood on the glued-in necks. I will definitely try these Echo pickups soon. Great science-based demo rather than a paid hype video 😂

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks :)

Brilliant! I would also add that the wood resonance will alter the string harmonics content, so that effect will be picked up by the (regular) pickup as well.

Fantastic video! This proves what ive been saying for years!

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks :)

Great video 👍would have loved to have heard the rear pickup soloed

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks :) I only did that shortly during the Fuzz test but yes, I definitely should have soloed that one more, cheers!

@russelllucas1043

10 ай бұрын

My bad, I replayed it. I must of missed the text on the screen. That rear pickup had good level.

I heard P. R. Smith talk about this, he firmly agreed that "factor" is the pickup type used which draws the tone from the body ... if any, versus just string resonance. Good stuff!

I really believe you've uncovered a well hidden secret! McCarty knew this vibration thing with slightly microphonic pickups! The pickups are basically picking up the "voice of the body"!... I'm definitely going to try your pickups!

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks :)

@iridios6127

6 ай бұрын

The rattling sound of a poorly assembled pup - has nothing to do with wood. Without Fuzz hellish gain - no one would have heard anything.

Would different woods have a different end result with the echo coil ? You've just about solved the 'tone wood' argument man !

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

100% Yes, that body was Roasted Poplar and it was not very resonant but it still managed to pickup a decent amount of body vibration so a more resonant piece of wood should have greater results, cheers!

@Crabfather

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar fascinating! So tonewood yes, in certain circumstances .. very cool ! Heya from northland by the way lol

@therewasascene

10 ай бұрын

That’s what I’m sayin. Rad.

There's a guy who basically dissected everything from guitar to speaker to see what influences tone, and he found no effect from tonewood whatsoever. But that matches your observation with the second humbucker. That particular KZreadr would probably be quite interested in this "body-sensing pickup" since he didn't even mention they exist, and might not know about them. It wouldn't change his conclusion, except for cases where such a pickup is in use, of course.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

9 ай бұрын

Yes, Jim Lill, he makes great videos! Most vintage humbuckers amplify the body like our Echo Coils do, it's part of what makes those guitars so fun to play. I will make another vid going a bit deeper into this, cheers!

Fascinating experiment. On guitars with multiple pickups, even when only one is selected, the pickup that is supposed to be "off" still adds some sound, as is remains in the electrical circuit. This can be proved by tapping on the "off" pickup/s while only one pickup is supposed to be on. This can cause different degrees of phasing. It would be great if you could do some tests to see how much this affects tone. In my tests, a single pickup sounds clearer and fuller than the same pickup in a circuit with other pickups. Thanks EDIT: The leaking of sound from an "off" pickup may be limited to the use of a "Blade Switch," like that found on a Strat, which I've experienced myself. I've modified that guitar to use a 3 way "Toggle Switch" and I don't have any pickup leakage with that switch.

@peterschmidt9942

10 ай бұрын

Are you smoking crack? You might want to put the pipe down and learn a little about how electronic circuits work. The only way either pickup will influence the other is in the middle position. In either extremes of the switch (neck or bridge) the other pickup is completely out of the circuit as thats what a switch does. Another scenario is your guitars wired incorrectly.

@fechart

9 ай бұрын

This used to be a suspicion for me, because my single humbucker guitars always felt "better", mostly the pickup behavior when rolling back the volume pot. But one day, by accident, I could prove it: I was messing with my HSS strat circuit, and tried 2 single coils without the humbucker installed, literally just the hole in the pickguard. I accidentally hit position 1, and to my surprise, I could hear the sinlges... dunno the science behind this, but I do know what I heard. Maybe @WaylonMcPhersonGuitar can comment on this

Would there be a difference if the body pup was turned inward? I’m going to try the capacitor thing you talked about on a squier cv looking forward to it . I enjoy your channel the way you get to your point without any B.S. Thanks a lot 👍☮️

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

The effect would be the same either way, thanks :)

Test for everybody wanting to try this for themselves. Lower your front pickup as low as it can go (without it bottoming out or falling off the the screws). Then switch between bridge and your middle possible (combining both pickups) The lowered pickup should be low to the body and should do a similar thing and reflect that in the sound when changing to middle position.

Very cool channel content., love it man......👍

Do you think it is due to bad (or intentional negligency) waxxing so that the pickup moves with the vibration ? Because that was very impressive with fuzz sound

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I was pretty impressed with how much was there under heavy fuzz, I design and build Echo Coils and they are made this way. I'll explain more in a future video, cheers!

i would love to know How did you wire up the echo pickup on the back ?, did you just run it straight to another output jack cause i can only see one output jack in the video ? Or did you just wire it to the same spot on the switch as the original bridge pickup ? many thanks greg

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Hi Greg, I wired it through a stereo output jack through a Y splitter cable. So both pickups were isolated from each other, cheers!

@gregrayner3146

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar thanks man that makes sense hey, love your videos hey , keep up the great work

Waylon, I'm having my doubts about this. The eco coil looks like a humbucker as stated and there are no metal strings over the rear pup to activate the voltage output using the magnetics, as buckers do. so how is it generating the shown freq. range on that window? wood vibrations do not activate buckers as the 2nd one showed. So what's different about your echo bucker? I could understand if it was a piazzo of sorts. Also, if that echo is picking up, why does it show different effect with the fuzz? the fuzz is downline of the guitar to the amp. the vibrations on the guitar should be the same as without the fuzz if it is really wood vibrations. I'm suspecting the rear bucker is sensitive to sound waves like microphonic buckers are, and it is reacting to the output sound from the amp speakers near by. Do you have a different technical explanation for this than mine?

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

6 ай бұрын

Thanks Mike, I'm going to redo this at some stage or at least explain how the Echo Coils work in more detail, I was pretty excited to get this video out and I feel like I rushed it a bit. It's all about controlled microphonics, designing a pickup around coils wound to be able to resonate (a little) with the body vibration while also suppressing some of the problems that come along with this sort of design. It works so well, I love 'em :) cheers!

@2bikemikesguitartopics145

6 ай бұрын

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar Ok, so in essence I am correct. Us damn test engineering types are annoying aren't we

Interesting. If I'd had to guess I'd say the reason why vintage pickups are picking up body vibration is because they were unpotted, perhaps loosely wounded comparing to modern. Physical vibration of the wood would resonate to the coil with the same frequency. When you have coil moving in static magnetic field (pickup magnet) you get EMF (voltage) induction = tone (practically how microphones work). Fully potted pickup where coil windings are "fixed" will have this effect toned down significantly.

These are interesting! Love your work! are they microphonic at all?

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, Echo Coils have a higher threshold than Vintage Humbucker against microphonic issues, cheers!

@henryrichard7619

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitarforgive my ignorance here - any idea how it could pick up body resonance like a vintage humbucker without being as microphonic? With my limited understanding of the physics I would think those behaviors would be the same mechanism

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

@@henryrichard7619 I will definitely have another video going a bit more into the design of the Echo Coils which should explain that, cheers!

@henryrichard7619

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar Sweet - looking forward to it!

So tell me, is the first pickup you placed in the back of the guitar non wax potted and the second one (that doesn’t not produce sound) wax potted?

so, how microphonic are your pick-ups? I.e. how do they handle full-stack live-sound?

What, no tone demo of the rear pickup? why‽

I do quite a few gutars, and I haven't tried te pickup idea, but I have come to the conclusion that the lightest bodies and full maple necks give a sound, feel and response thats killer. Usually its the cheap chinese bodies that ring like bells, have you ever tried a body made of Paulownia wood? It's supposed to be really light and resonant. I thik half of what I'm liking abut the light weight bodies is exactly wat you are talking about here. My approach these days is if they ring, they're gonna sing.

How about separate flatter/smaller pickup that you could hide in the pickup cavity under the actual pickups that only picks up those body vibrations. Then you could have a switch to turn it on/off as you wish, or maybe even a pot to control how much of it you want. With a pot it could even be more sensitive so you could get more of it than with vintage pickups... And maybe even a possibility to route it to a separate output like on your test guitar. I'm maybe getting into feature creep territory here, but what I'm thinking here is why stop to copying what the vintage thing is doing when you can get even more out of the thing you found.

@anthonystark5412

10 ай бұрын

Those are already a thing, in acoustic guitars. Search for "single transducer pickup".

Body vibrations? I always thought pickups are just magnets so only will pick up an interruption to the magnetic field by the metal string vibration? Obviously not? And how does distortion change what the pick up reads? This makes no sense

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, really interesting! The pickup level changes with different levels of compression, Fuzz is way more compressed than Overdrive. cheers!

@danedgar1539

10 ай бұрын

​@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar how did you happen to come across this? Yes it is very interesting

Not what I expected! I thought there would hardly be any signal from the body itself.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

When I first set out designing pickup I thought that as well, cheers!

What brand was the boutique pick you put in?

Did you wire direct to input?

As a technical guy I need to provide an explanation and flag a couple of points: the laws of physics dictate that pickups work because the movement of METAL near a coil of wire sets electrons in motion, producing current. No amount of wood vibration will produce this current. The pickup on the back must therefore have a metal cover that is capable of sympathetic vibration from the guitar body. So to have a “body-sensing” pickup, it must: 1) have a metal cover 2) be unpotted to freely vibrate 3) mounted in a way that it can receive vibrations from the body. For this reason, the other pickup in tje extra test didnt sense anything because it either was potted or not mounted in such a way that would allow the body vibrations to be transmitter to the pickup cover. Interesting aspect of microphonic pickups that they actually can pickup and mix the body vibrations with the pure string vibrations.

What has to be happening here is that the pickup in the back of the guitar is acting microphonically, so it is picking up the sound of the guitar in the same way as if you held up a weak microphone to an unplugged guitar. The way you’re describing things, it kind of sounds like you’re suggesting that the back pickup is somehow creating an electronic signal just by being physically shaken by the vibrations of the guitar body. If you were to attach the pickup to some kind of silent machine that could just vibrate the pickup without creating any noise for it to microphonically “hear”, it wouldn’t send any signal to the amp. Maybe this is what you are actually saying in the video,so I apologize if I misunderstood how you were explaining it.

Curious, why not just stick a direct contact Piezo pickup on the body?? Less routing and should more or less do the same thing with no need for special pickups

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

The idea of this was to just prove that certain magnetic pickups actually amplify body vibration as well as the strings. The pickup mounted in the back is just for the experiment, cheers!

Seems like this would really change depending on how the pickup is mounted to the body. The classic method of mounting to the pickguard is maybe not idea for that sound transfer, right? Wouldn't a direct body mount be ideal? Kinda like what Danelectro uses on some of their lipstick tubes? Those are mounted to the underside of the guitar body.

Yeah some humbuckers do, my favorite ones. My idea of an good pickup is that is able to pick and transform as much of that true acoustic sound as possible and me beeing like that the construction as an set neck or not and the wood used will make an great matter. In oterwise it would not matter at all what an guitar is made of and that is an school also where the pickups are belived in creating all the magic.

So you first design and start manufacturing a pickup that is supposed to pick up vibrations, and only after that you create an experiment to test whether these pickups acutally pick up these vibrations?

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

5 ай бұрын

🤣 No that would be crazy! I had proven it during development. I will have to revisit this video though, I really need to address a lot of different questions, cheers!

Just stumbled on this video today, but I think the only way you'd 'pickup' body resonance is if the pickup was microphonic. You're probably just getting what little energy from strings that pickup can use/detect/sense.

How loud is your volume in the room? It doesn’t make sense to me how having a fuzz on or off would effect the signal at the pickup unless it was picking up sound in the room?

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Hi, There was no sound in he room, I was recording in isolation. The Fuzz just compresses the signal way more try to even out all the input sources levels. I'll have to do another vid at some point going into more depth on the pickup's design, cheers!

@jamesthepanther

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar Thanks for the reply! That’s bizarre to me…do you think the fuzz is sending some signal back to the pickups then? And if so do you think all pedals do that or just fuzz. Maybe that is why they are so reactive to the volume knobs etc.

@jamesthepanther

10 ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar and I guess I should say I was originally thinking that you spectrum graphs were representing the noise at the pickup…but I guess it is just amplifying the original signal and we are seeing that post. Duh on my part.

Here's the thing with body resonance. You feel it in your hands and your body way before you hear it through the amp. Im of the opinion that it makes a difference in the sound as well but thats secondary. A guitar that is too dense and dead feeling is un inspiring. But a lively resonant guitar can inspire you, plugged in or not. The inspiration is what will bring the tone. Great playing = great tone. Un inspired playing will always sound flat and lifeless!

Oh dang! Someone is going to have a long video with many different wood species comparisons to show the "perfect" wood combo or single....I request a black walnut first, then knotty pine.

You did not show the original response with volume offon the top pup..I assume you will get mic response from the top pup..when both engaged

I think wood gives a vibration feedback to strings after picking and that probably is what modifies the sound. So i dont think is the wood, but the interaction

Why didn't you just install a piezo pickup ? Thats the best route for vibration in tone wood such as babinga

I'm surprised that you wouldn't mount the pickup directly to the body as opposed to a mounting bracket???

If there is no core moving in a coil nor a string moving next to the core there is no physical reactions that can be amplified nor processed. If a humbucker sends body resonance it is defect and has a lose core vibrating or is designed for that using a specific principle. Something made from steel has to move relative to the coils. Weather planned or randomly built in. A vibrating back plate maybe. You could wear a chain vest on the next gig to make your moves sound great ❤😂

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

5 ай бұрын

This video has definitely left a lot of questions, I'll answer them is a future video, cheers :)

I would suggest testing the same experiment with wax potted vs non-wax potted? There might be levels of acoustical Properties that do affect electric guitar tone if the pickups are microphonic.

@TheRealcdawg22

10 ай бұрын

Good point.

@anthonystark5412

10 ай бұрын

The 2nd pickup is wax-potted, or maybe gooped. That's why nothing registered.

@chickenwalkerinstalls7413

10 ай бұрын

@@anthonystark5412 which might be why a lot of people "swear tonewood matters" and hear changes when using the same pickups. Maybe they're just all using badly potted pickups 😂

I would love to see this on a 335 style guitar

Isn't this called a microphonic pickup, basically what is usually desired to be avoided? People would wax pot them to keep the unwanted body vibrations away for high gain

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for checking out the vid, I will be making another video explaining this more in depth soon, cheers😁

I dont belive its the body resonating still tho, because how a pickup works is the string disrupts the magnetic field and creates eletrical impulses through lenz law, wood vibrating wouldnt mess with the electro magnetic field. But i have no idea and sometimes things that should make sense just dont. I just dont beileve in tone wood on electric, on acoustic it "wood" make a difference tho

Jim Lill has entered the chat

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Haha, Jim's the man!!

@r0bophonic

10 ай бұрын

He is! What you’ve demonstrated here seems to open a whole new can of worms after his “where does guitar tone come from” video appeared to demonstrate no contribution from “tone wood”. Would love to see a collab between you two genius tinkerers!

I saw something similar on Anderton's Bernie Marsden video where he plays a double-neck with the switch on the 12 string, but picks the 6 string. It creates a beautiful ambient sound through the amp.

To be honest, I don't understand: You are making a demo related to the addition of a MAGNETIC pickup, which is supposed to be excited by the variations of a magnetic field (i.e. the one provided by a steel string), and tell us you find a signifiant difference that could only be given by a piezzo, which reacts to any vibration in a solid material... 🤔

@CoolGuyAtlas

7 ай бұрын

That's because pickups aren't computers. If a pickup isn't properly potted it will pick up any and every vibration and turn it into an electric signal.

That's a really interseting video and I've read some comments and your responses and I have to say. I'm not convinced and i guess you're just pickup up the strings. This blew my mind at first and so I wanted to test it. And to do so, obviously you would have to bring the body to vibration without the string. I dont have a variable vibrator, BUT I have a tuning fork. If you mute the string and put the tuning fork to the body of ANY of my guitars there is no signal WITH ONE EXCEPTION: If you bring the tuning fork closer to the pickup. And this, of course, makes sense and also works if I don't touch the body. Vibration of the wood is doing nothing for me, and the tuning fork vibrates the wood WAY more than struming the string ever could. Now: this even works when I hove the tuning for in some distance over the back of the guitar in the area where your pickup is sitting. Sure, tunig fork is much more mass. But this explains why the bonus test pickup is not doing anything, I guess your PU is just way more sensitive. I'm not saying you're wrong, but this test actually proves nothing, because you still have strings vibrating (far away but) in the magnetic field of this PU.

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

Ай бұрын

Thanks for checking it out, The body sensing ability of these pickup (along with some vintage pickups) is all about how the coils are wound and the pickups constructed. This allows for coil movement which picks up vibration, it's all about 'Controlled Microphonics' I'm going to do a follow up on this because at the time, I feel i rushed this video out and I would like to go a little deeper into the design, cheers!

@Vakilando

Ай бұрын

@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar I'm excited about the video, something that came to my mind: perfect test would be using non-magnetic strings. Or, if that's not possible magnetite the strings itself and show that it doesn't affect the additional pickup. Great videos, anyway!

It would have been more interesting if we hear only the humbucker at the back

We're you isolated from the amp sound in the room? If not, your experiment is flawed as the body mounted pickup could be feeding back from the amp sound. This is reinforced by the fact that the other pickup didn't show the same behaviour, but you were playing it without the amplified sound in the room.

@jamesbutler3793

10 ай бұрын

Spot on

@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar

10 ай бұрын

Hi, yes there were no amps in the room, all the guitar sounds were recorded in isolation from me, cheers!

@garyrowe58

10 ай бұрын

​@WaylonMcPhersonGuitar so, is the pickup telepathic? Does the fuzz vs distortion difference still happen if you swap the labels on the pedals?

@garyrowe58

10 ай бұрын

​@@WaylonMcPhersonGuitarby the way, those black boxes behind you sure look like one could be an amp ...

Just stick a microphone to the body. Pickups, especially potted/high quality pickups are non-microphonic, so you will not get anything.

so is this a purposely "faulty" pickup designed to be slightly microphonic? great idea imo

Ok, gave up watching 3/4 way through, while you'd still only done apples vs oranges ... A pickup with no strings above it should pick up nothing. Anything it does pick up must be microphonically, and you didn't let us hear your pickup by itself. And the only way fuzz vs. distortion would give a different reading would seem to me to be because of the way the body is resonating to the amplified sound.

Nope.....its going to pickup your armpit and your body movement...sing through it...lols... seriously though, turning the pick up inward would it not pickup More of the resonance of the guitar itself.

No, they can not. Because pickups detect variable magnetic field, not physical vibrations. You experienced electromagnetic interference from normal pickups to back pickup right here.

Are you kidding?! You just proved that your pickup is simply microphonic! Why didn't you made the exact same test on your pickup that you made with the boutique pickup (I mean strumming with just the rear pickup)? It's simply impossible for a magnetic pickup to be sensible to the wood vibration, there isn't any justification for that in the current laws of physics.