Anytime someone plays a game with the expectation that they can emulate a novel (or other work of fiction), whether it is jumping in a game and expecting to be Drizzt Do'Urden or Conan, Elric or King Arthur, or any other pre-written character, will find themselves potentially dissatisfied with traditional Old School gameplay. Story is only a byproduct of gameplay, for good or for ill, and those who attempt to force a story rather than experience whatever unfolds, will often as not discover it to be frustrating. There have been useful advances in setting and dungeon design over the years, in terms of inclusions making more sense in preconstructed biomes, but during gameplay it is up to the referee / DM / GM to facilitate the randomness and weave it into the game in ways that fit, even if mysterious. It is up to the players to make choices and describe their actions and for the DM to figure out the consequences and describe them in a manner consistent with the setting. However, there is some predeterminism in every game merely by describing the setting, as Medieval Fantasy, for instance. Every game exists on a sliding scale with sandbox at one end and railroad at the other with neither extreme being possible. Old School games tends to be very far toward the sandbox end of that scale. 😀

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Well said buddy! I used all those people as examples of gameplay. Style. Feel. Not as people you expect your pc to turn out as. Hope they didn’t take it that way

@MarkCMG

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer I got you. Just re-emphasize a point well made. 😀

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

🤘

My face is that Vince McMahon meme of him just getting more and more excited as the video goes along.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Haha thanks man!!

When describing old school play, i always tell 5e players, think Pippin not Aragorn

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Lmao! Good way to say it Peadar. You might be Aragorn after 80 years of life…but at age 18 and just off the family farm…yup. Pippin.

@samueljr.3817

6 ай бұрын

I think Bilbo captures the OSR essence better. Going on an adventure to steal gold.

@peadarruane6582

6 ай бұрын

@@samueljr.3817 Aye another good comparison. I just use Pippin and Merry in terms of the Fellowship in particular. :)

@samueljr.3817

6 ай бұрын

I know, it makes sense. I'm just nitpicking ;)@@peadarruane6582

Another excellent take on what makes OSR games what they are. Nice call-outs on the way interpretation of old-school play is exactly that, an interpretation - and sometimes badly wrong. There are lots of ways people can find out more about this style of play - one of most important things to do is exactly this - set those expectations. You can't be disappointed by getting 100GP to share among the party at 1st level when you were told outright you could very well have died in the first of those fights you just had. I remember the other video you referenced with strongholds described as 'perks'. That does have the connotation that it's a given -- and that is not the case at all, if you live, if you gather treasure - a lot of treasure, if you manage to keep it all, if you manage to construct said stronghold, and attract followers...sure - then, you have got a stronghold. Doesn't seem like such a given when put that way. That is always something characters can strive for though, so personal goals.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man. Hope it reaches a lot of new players who are just trying out the osr. Goals are everything. Both in real life and in Dnd. Then you need the balls and fortitude to strive for them. No matter how many times you get your ass kicked.

3:20 my 10th level fighter never got a castle, he didn't really want one. he became captain of the guard for the party's quest giver.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

But but but the rules say he has to get one! Haha. I like breaking the rules too. 🤘

I’ve recently started an OSR inspired campaign using 5e. I just got back into dnd after 25+years and 5e is current version. I have been enjoying your videos.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Check out my 5e houserules on my web page to see how I made 5e more osr in feel. 🤘

Great reminders to have the right focus. Drawing tons of inspiration from your videos

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much Greg. I’m going to keep trying to make positive videos that help gamers. There’s enough divisiveness in the world. Hopefully this helps bring people together with dice and pencils. 🤘

You somehow managed to hit the trifecta with this video -- informative, entertaining, and inspiring! Great job, loved it!

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Duane! That’s a great thing to hear. Let’s me know if I’m on track or just telling into the wind hahah. Glad you enjoyed it. 😁

My interest came from playing toy soldiers with my little brother. Seeing lead miniatures painted in a shop opposite the imperial War museum in London. My inspiration was Lord of the rings and dinosaurs ! Harry Harryhausen films. When I saw a copy of the players handbook 1e at school, it was the logical if not perfect way forward. I'm nearly 52 and am becoming so disillusioned by new school 5e. Thanks for the upload Joe. I'm loving nostalgic look back.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I remember the first time I saw clash of the titans. So awesome. 😁. Yeah, Dnd hit the right notes for me as well. I’m 52, and I’ve been playing since 1984, and I don’t see myself ever stopping. It’s my creative outlet.

Hey Joe. Thanks for making the video. I find the draw of the OSR fascinating. The industry keeps on churning out new games, and new versions, but people seem to migrate back to the old stuff time and time again. Whether they are old players or new, the draw is still there. That really speaks to how powerful those old games - and why we are still in the hobby 40 or 50 years later.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

You’re welcome buddy. 👍. And I agree! Something about the old games is just timeless. It goes beyond nostalgia.

5:32 THAT is a fantastic movie. it was one of my grandfather's favorites movies before he passed away 🙂.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Amen buddy. It was a great movie. May your grandfather rest in peace ❤️

I love your videos and just listening to you talk about things

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much! That’s a great compliment. I have a face for radio so I may have found my niche haha

100% agree with your views on the game and how it should be played. I set it all out to players at a session-0 so they know the score and if they don't like it, they can drop out before the campaign starts.. We all have our own ways of doing certain things. I tell players they can start with whatever gear they want (no magical or + equipment though) as long as they can justify how they got it from their backstory. I want just enough backstory to give a flavour but no shake-n-Bake badass heroes and they're told it won't have any real bearing on the game going forward. Now they each get 1d6 silver +1 gold piece to start and that's it. They're told to mark down all their stuff on the sheet because I enforce encumbrance rules and if it's not on the sheet they haven't got it. I don't care whether it's a bedroll, a water skin or a bunch of arrows, if it's not on your sheet you go without or figure out what to do.. Keep up the great content, Joe, it's a pleasure to hear some sense amongst the 1001 politically correct 5e / Pathfinder 2nd garbage being produced and promoted. 👍

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Richard. I like that approach. Speeds up character generation bigtime if they aren’t counting down their meager starting coin to buy the bedroll. I also say if it isn’t written down you don’t have it and I enforce encumbrance rules…especially as to movement speed. As to the political correct stuff…let’s just say that there’s a very good reason I don’t live stream my games. 😎

"I only get HOW many spells?! Where are the cantrips?" Calm down, youngin'. These past two videos have been exemplary. A well earned subscription from me.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much Derek! Spread the word! 😁

Master of puppets and/or Sabbath was my soundtrack for writing adventures🤘

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Nice. Love Metallica. :)

Great video!

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man! I’m gonna keep pumping them out as long as you guys keep watching 😁

Refreshing, I love it

“You have to have this burning desire to take from the world what the hell it owes you.” I love it. Well said for a great PC motivation.

@Joethelawyer

6 ай бұрын

I said that?

I am only now 2 videos in to your channel and I am finding this information to be very interesting and useful. As far as D20 is concerned, I have mucked about in 3rd-4th and done significant 5th to date. With my handful of new players I want to acquire something that has been missing in the experience and that is what drew me to "D&D" in the first place way before I touched a rulebook or even a die more complicated than a monopoly die: the ability to do cool shiz for the sake of cool shiz by just playing the darn game. I'd been trapped by this weight of trying to be a narrative genius, especially when surrounded by so many influences in present-day media, that I forgot the time I rolled up an (unused) GURPS character on the livingroom floor purely because I wanted to use them to survive whatever setting or situation was thrown at me in a game that might one day be played. Oh to remember that this is a "board game" where you assume the ROLE of your "piece" and PLAY. (I love acting gaming as much as the next guy, but I think that can still exist within a game that isn't just a choose your own adventure book for the GM).

@Joethelawyer

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching man!

Great vid !

@Joethelawyer

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

I primarily run AD&D w/ Splat Books both campaigns and one-shots and with campaigns I have two types identical in setting, but the predetermined plot is there in one and gone in another. In Campaign A it is the classic Hero's Epic where it will culminate in this group of players going from no name shmucks to slaying [Insert Nigh-Omnipotent Otherworldly Force Here]. Its great and alot of players, especially new ones, love it. Campaign B? The players start as no name shmucks and pretty much stay that way as they roam the planet in search of loot and adventure. That's my favorite to run because it requires the least prep session-to-session on my end and yeah alot of what's presented here holds true. Its just about knowing your players at the end of the day, what can they accomplish in a given scenario and what can you do as a DM to arbitrate the rules they try to MacGuyver around at any given point. Because Campaign A ends an entirely different way if the Players say "meh we're going this way!" and that's fine I just want to see what happens. With One-Shots though I personally do like making simple dungeon crawls and saying have at it as I draw a pool of monsters out of a hat.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I’m just finishing up the classic hero type with the 5e campaign. Following the events of what with the gritty 2e one. Same world and setting. One picks up Where the other left off. I’m looking for the Bally middle between the two though. I’m Sure it will start off with the adventure style but will morph into the local regional hero thing after a whole.

@grimgaming4672

Жыл бұрын

Probably, but that's not a bad thing, if your players are keen to fight tooth and nail for Local Heroism with 2e then more power to them it will make the journey all the better especially if they die along the way. Most stories of Classical Heroes are Tragedies anyway so it fits and would make a cool legend or tale for another group to stumble upon later down the road.

I gotta say, I have DM's since the early 80's and there are things you covered in this video that I must admit I need to do better at. One thing that was not mentioned, was that it's called a role playing game. If I am dming, my players must learn to be into their character. What I mean by that is they have to decide on a personality and stick to it. That's not to say their character will not change over time, just that one day they are shy, the next day verbose. It does not work. As for the part where you talked about overly hinting to the party, I often am guilty of that. Part of it is that I have only 2 players so that I have to generally bring along an NPC to help. I wish my group could grow, but most people have no interest in 2nd edition, so us Old School players really are becoming extinct. Thanks for the video. I appreciate it.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for taking the time to listen and for sharing your thoughts Dale. I try to get everyone to stay in character too. But it’s a struggle. As soon as someone cracks a joke out of character, all bets are off. And I’m as guilty of that as the players haha.

I play BECMI D&D. As both a DM and a player I consider the rules as a guide, not an absolute. Yes once a character reaches "Name Level" they CAN get a Castle/Hideout/Sancuary/Tower/Stronghold. It doesn't mean hey will get it. If you read the rules, the Player has to put a lot of time, work, and money to gain those things. Most of my players never wanted those things. They just wanted to keep adventuring. As a player, the only time I created a stronghold was as a Thief. I had an idea that he wanted to run a guild sometime(and them maybe use him as an NPC for future campaigns).

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

That’s how I do it too. Only one I ever had was as a magic user

Love these videos man, keep them up. Some of the best old school insight out there. I am curious who the 2 guys who read ose and commented on the osr at the start of your video are however

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much Will! I don’t want to name drop them just to crap on them though. I’d rather not be divisive if I can help it. At least they tried ose. That’s a good thing. 👍

@turner42

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer oh I understand and I respect that, but my curiosity is getting the better of me haha. Have a good one!

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

You too man!

I really enjoy the focus on problem solving, people first are put off by how deadly combat is, until I explaine that by being so, it encourages problem solving and playing smart. Being a murder hobo is a quick way to a shallow grave. Character I find too is better built through the campaign. It's much more rewarding seeing a PC become someone than already being someone which us rather hollow.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Exactly man. It’s hard to get people to think outside the box sometimes. Especially if they come from a video game background. It goes back to the saying “if all you have is a hammer then you look at everything as a nail.” All they think they have are melee and missile weapons and spells. What they really have is the brain of the person playing the pc. That’s the biggest tool in the toolbox.

@underfire987

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer I think that is why its important to have them not start with such tools of any, or to also give tools that are not such things, such as strange nominal strange and odd magical items. Stuff that if they are clever they will find many uses for i n problem solving, avoiding traps all sorts of stuff tricking foes.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree. Plus 1 swords are boring. Nolzurs marvelous pigments on the other hand…

Haha I know the video of the two guys talking about high level rewards. I told my GF that these two have never played an OSR game before, and the very next day I see your video calling them out! To be fair, I think they were saying take this idea of a stronghold for your 5e game, but still funny to witness their inexperience.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I know what you mean. On the one hand, kudos for trying it. On the other….have some humility and learn it for a while before you spout out bad advice to new players.

Hey Joe! I'm 54 and have only played original AD&D since 1979, having started with the Holmes Blue Box. Dabbled in 2nd ed after HS, but my love has always been 1e. Yes, I do play in one 5e game, but it's homebrew, not published material, and it's an awesome time and our play is similar to 1e, because our DM is old-school originally and several of us players are old-school. Makes for a great game. But you'll never see me play in any of the 1st level to 20th level railroad books. Video was great and it hit on all the great points of old-school role-playing. Death of player's characters was common and expected most of the time, only the smart ones survive to retirement age.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeffrey! I tried to make my 5e game as old school as I possibly could get my players to agree to before they would quit on me 😂. After so Many houserules that hacked entire limbs off the 5e game, I finally gave up because I realized I was trying to make 5e into 2e. I figured I’d just play 2e. With tons of houserules of course 😂

I heard the rumor that life isn't fair ... Are you sure? 😉 I love the video. I am getting into AD&D 2e for the first time. Your videos have been helpful in convincing me to try it.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man! I’m glad you liked it. More to come!

Whats up Joe? Catching up on some vids I missed. 👊

@Joethelawyer

3 ай бұрын

Howdy! Sorry man, I'm crappy at responding to comments in a timely manner. I'm gonna keep at it every day now though.

Appendix N...and give Eternal Champion a listen...Sun Voyager...Kal-El Dark Majesty...Warrior Path...

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I hope to read all the books in appendix N before I die. Life just keeps getting in the way dammit.

Regarding the illogical & dumb dungeon designs - they certainly appeared in some Old School publications, but even back then we knew they were dumb! The dungeons I designed myself (usually on graph paper notebooks in the back row of my chemistry class) were very different and I tried to make them make sense. New commenters on Old School gaming seem to think players back then were unsophisticated rubes that played rules as written without any input or creativity themselves and this wasn't the case. I've seen comments on OSR threads in reddit etc that praise a style of play as "authentic" that back in the day we'd already houseruled away from just like any newer player would. We made the games fit our playstyle and table just like gamers always do.

@Joethelawyer

15 күн бұрын

We mostly used modules back then. Whatever we could get from our paper route money. So we were stuck with what we could buy.

I listen to Dio and Led Zeppelin to inspire my campaign creation for OSE. Being a child of the 80's, I really resonate with the content of this video.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I just posted another video on my 2e prep. Currently listening to Iron Maiden. :)

Lol Joe just came out and said it! I wish I had told my 5e players this stuff to save time and manage expectations (they didn’t like this style and I got players interested in it instead)

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I’m Here to help man! 😂

What you said about backstory... I've honestly and unfortunately had to kick players who act like their backstory should be the centerpiece, its maddening

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I know what you mean Boss. It’s rough. I think some dnd players are just frustrated writers. Or they want to have the same kind of character they just read about. That’s not what my game is all about. That’s not what life is all about. I feel bad for the generations that had it too easy

I’m 24 but I’ve been in the OSR since I started playing D&D. Been playing AD&D 1e for 13 years, I’m currently planning an old school essentials: advanced game to introduce some new players to old school d&d, so I’m hoping it goes well and we can have a full campaign, but if it doesn’t that’s alright too. I do wish there were more folks my age in the osr, but I imagine that will become the case with time. Most of my friends haven’t really played anything but 5e or 5e conversions so it’s kinda a challenge but that’s alright. They don’t always get it but it’s a fundamentally different game than what they’re used to so it’s understandable. Thanks for the video

@Joethelawyer

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment! More and more people will move over to the osr and other games once wizards goes 💯 virtual next year. Some people, the cool people, like pen and paper. 😎

@Hey_Its_Freya

6 ай бұрын

@@Joethelawyer yeah, I agree with ya there 100%. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game virtually that’s panned out. I mean in a pinch, when ya can’t get everyone together sure it serves its purpose but it’s just not the same as gathering around a table face to face. Actually something I just thought of that I’m quite excited to see my players reaction to is the city map I have. I bought a copy of the judges guild’s map of “the city state of the invincible overlord” which I plan to use as their sorta “base of operations” so to speak. Every building is keyed and labeled, really detailed. Laying something like that out on the table has an entirely different impact than presenting them with a image on a screen.

18:00 all hail Doomcock!

@Joethelawyer

15 күн бұрын

Yes!

I often listen to you talk about how old-school games and playstyles and think to myself "He's perfectly describing everything I want out of a TTRPG." I often listen to other people describe old school and the most common thing I always hear is "Old school is just dungeon crawl, dungeon crawl, dungeon crawl" and that's personally never what I've experienced playing AD&D (although I'm fairly young and haven't played nearly as long as everyone else in this space). It's been what you described; gritty, earn your place, sandbox adventure. Do you see a lot of people have the same impression that I've seen? That old school is essentially just a bunch of dungeon crawls? What I hear you describe has basically been my experience and it's IMO way better than these modern, heroic RPGs.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I think a lot of people come into it with bad information. That’s what I’m hoping this video helps to rectify. They look at the older books and think that’s how we still play. We used to play like that…in 1984. And earlier. But it evolved. The old school renaissance was and is all about keeping the old school vibe and feel but without all the old school tropes. We aren’t 14 anymore. We’re in our 50’s and older, most of us. We’ve grown and evolved as people. We know how the world works. And we try to bring all that real world knowledge into the games we run as DM’s, and into the games we play as players. Some people like the old way of doing it. I’m not one of them. I do like the old school feel and vibe. Using the old school game mechanics in games like OSE, and for me second edition, to create the games we wished we had played in 1984 but we were just dumb kids so we couldn’t. Not would we have been able to appreciate them way back then. We were just dumb kids. Haha.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Also, thanks for listening and taking the time to comment Bladefire. That’s the best part of making the videos for me…the interaction with the viewers

In love running Osr games for 5e players, particularly when I tell them they've just gained 1 hp back after a long rest. They change their playstyle pretty quick after that.

@Joethelawyer

10 ай бұрын

lol. yup. lots of shitting of pants i bet. :)

@yippeethreeeight

7 ай бұрын

I hate "long rest" and "short rest", along with "make a perception check". These are all horrors visited upon us by 5e and PF2E.

For old school games I can see, given the potential for a quick death, a backstory being a waste of time. But coming from Burning Wheel, character back stories and character driven gameplay has been some of the best I've ever had. I take many of the queues from Burning Wheel into a 5E game. Connecting these longer lasting PC's to the world through their relationships. OSR ideas work / can benefit a 5E game. It isn't an exclusive dichotomy i.e. encounter lethality, sandbox gameplay.

@Joethelawyer

3 ай бұрын

True, but most people don't like to be in the middle. Most seem to be one camp or another.

GMs create the setting and the conflicts in it. Players decide what to engage with and how.

@Joethelawyer

2 ай бұрын

Exactly!

Nice one. Well said. Dark ages vs pax romana 😂

@Joethelawyer

7 ай бұрын

thanks!

I'm surprised you showed the Dragon Lance modules here. I'd always heard DL and Strahd were sort of the beginning of the "Story gaming" trend that moved the game from the original OSR roots.

@AndrewJHayford

6 ай бұрын

Nm I made this comment too soon. You mention this.

I saw part of the video you mentioned and had the same thought. Couldn't stay with it after learning they just got old-school essentials. I figured I'm just old and grumpy.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Haha. We are old and grumpy Jesse. May as well own it. Ever see the movie Secondhand Lions? It describes most old schoolers age 50+ to a T. 👍

@MrRambojz

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer haha yes great movie! Need to watch that again

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I just watched it this summer again. I have it on a dvd I forgot to return to blockbuster in 2005. Oops…

I like XP based on skill roll: A crit is 1, a exploding dmg is 2 and a fumble is 3 points.

@Joethelawyer

7 ай бұрын

interesting!

Class of 80 OG DM, good summary. It's Saving Private Ryan, not Avengers. :)

@Joethelawyer

3 ай бұрын

84 here, you have me beat, gramps. :)

Well said. I always try to impress on the newer players that a first-level character has no reason at all to have a backstory longer than two paragraphs, max. He just hasn't done enough or lived enough life (at least, not an adventurer's life). The story emerges from the game, it isn't written before it.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Chad. Yeah a lot of frustrated novelists play Dnd and want to write their book thru the game and if the dm here in the way of their predetermined story then the my suck. That’s not a good approach imho

What're your favorite OSR games?

@Joethelawyer

7 ай бұрын

OSE is probably my favorite other than 2e/1e

I've come to appreciate old AD&D adventure modules and their design. I think the whole reason for "adventure path" is that writing higher level modules is a bit difficult due to the wild variance in character power once they're past 7th-ish, so the best way to control that is to write the entire campaign from 1st to whatever endpoint the writer wishes to reach.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I think the only way to pull off high level gameplay if by being a good dm who doesn’t focus on the fights and killing stuff. That’s just the gravy to the rest of the game. Politics. Intrigue. Npc stuff. Building fortresses and integrating yourself into the world. All that is good stuff for higher level old school games.

@adammiller8617

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer Agreed. Really, once you reach a certain point in terms of level and wealth, most (99%) of characters would flat out retire. Built a keep, found a thieves' guild, construct a church, establish a college, or hell just buy an inn. Adventuring is a young man's sport; if I'm rich and 9th level, I sure the hell ain't going camping out in the woods for some trinkets :D

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

That’s what henchmen hirelings and followers are for. And in real life, your kids or nephews or nieces. 😂

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

My brother trained his kids from a very young age to get him a beer. 👍

Hey man, new subscriber here, but old gamer, 30+ years probably. Love your stuff. Pretty straightforward. Looking forward to hearing more.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much Alexander! I try not to beat around the bush. 😁

I don't want to be the one to say this but.....We are from another generation. Instant gratification is what the younger players/ generations expect. Hence the keeps at 9th level. Last minute of the vid summed it up perfectly! Damn that was a great explanation. I can't tell you how hard I tried to model my adventures off of Excalibur and Clash of the Titans!

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Joe! Yeah it’s rough admitting that we’re old, huh? Every time I hear the music my nephews or nieces are listening to and say wtf is that crap…I feel like I owe my father an apology 😂. Now I’ll have to go back and listen to the last minute to see what I said. Haha. Another old man issue…No memory. 😁

@TheProphessionalGeek

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, depending on your table, the climb from level 1-9 is anything but instant, lol.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Very true. :)

Love these videos. Keep em coming please

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Mikey! Will do! It’s the cool comments that keep me making more videos. 🤘

@mistergoats4380

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer Your channel got me into the OSR. Ran the first OSE session of a new campaign tonight and it went very well. Some of the 5e players commented on how much more real it felt. Thank you so much. PS. They trapped a cockatrice in the basement and are talking about using it as a body disposal service for the local templars or thieves guild.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

@@mistergoats4380 that’s so awesome Mikey! I love it! Let me know how it goes lol!

Hi. Do you think that it is possible to create an OSR experience using the new systems like PF2e? I am trying to do it, I would appreciate any suggestions.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Howdy. Well, I did make a comprehensive set of houserules for my 5e game to try to make it more old school. It worked to a certain extent. But at the end of the day, the pc’s are too much like super heroes. They are too powerful for it to ever really work out. Check out my webpage for the 5e house rules I made up. Link is in the description of the video

@lic.oneyclavijo3847

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer thanks, looking forward to new videos from your channel. (Tips on hexcrawling right?)

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

@@lic.oneyclavijo3847 Hirelings henchmen and followers is up next. :) soon as i get the time to rework my rules from an old game i used to run to make it more 2e. thanks for listening and commenting buddy!

Second session of my current campaign (which is 5E) a player died. She was shocked, but to be fair, she tried fist fighting a friggin giant 😑. I'm kind of over players thinking that they're super heroes and immortal. Do dumb shit, you pay the consequences. I really hate the hero mentality that the game has turned into. I don't dig running meat grinders, but I'm not writing a fantasy novel here - the heroes are in the lore, not the adventure.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Exactly sawdust. Exactly.

Not sure why you would take a shot at Questing Beast. Dude has been reppin’ OSR on KZread for at least 7 years now.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

There’s no lost key, as he portrayed it in the video.

Sometimes you gotta run, FYI to all 5e newbies (not derogatory) undead can drain real character levels. Like forever...

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Yup! Not getting them back

Even dying isn’t losing

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Yup! As long as you had fun along the way and had a good death, it’s all good

That’s a good summary of the old school attitude.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Chris! I once ran a 5e game in a game store years ago. Almost all the players were in their young 20’s just out of college. I gave their pc’s xp for watching a lot of the movies I mentioned in the video. Just to get them in the right mindset. 😁

@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer I've got a new player who's only played 5e up to this point. He's doing great playing my 2e Dark Sun game, but he comes to it with the attitude that its a completely different game so that helps him a lot. I ran a group of Army buddies through my 2e/5e Ravenloft Adventure Ravenloft: Prey of the Black Wolf, using the 2e rules. One of them was excited to play an Old School game. He chose the Thief Progenerated PC. He got upset that with the exception of a couple of the thief's skills, it was more likely than not to fail its skill checks at second level. All the other guys had fun, but he couldn't got over that his character wasn't set up for success at first level. I tried to explain that how he played his character was more impotent what his stats were, but he was of the mind that, you show up you roll a few dice you win D&D. I personally haven't had anyone who has had a harder time then him play under me.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it’s hard. I had that conversations about thief skills with someone just the other day. They all want to be able to do anything and everything pretty well at first level.

Good video . Dnd one is removing weapons from their next edition because they "hurt people"

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Lol!

F Drizzt...

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Lol. Yup. ‘Nuff said. 🤘

@underfire987

Жыл бұрын

Yep very one dimensional silly and just way over the top. The author is a tool now too.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know much about the author so I can’t speak to that. I do remember liking the first three drizzit books when they came out. But hey, I also liked the sword of shannara when I was 15 too, so….😂

@haveswordwilltravel

Жыл бұрын

Do not parry with the flat of the blade.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Ha! I’ll remind myself of that next time it comes up. 😂

If you would play as Conan Zorro or Aragorn your not OP when your enemies are strong too. Conan was nailed to a tree. He is not invincble. Even Superman was killed by Darkside. Its just a matter of powerscale but can feel more epic then always play as some random guy.

@Joethelawyer

3 ай бұрын

True, I still prefer the lesser power scale though. Otherwise it becomes like a game of superheroes. I like batman style dnd, not superman style.

The ridiculous anime furry slice of life-ass group that was running a Homebrew version of BESM D20 Revised. ... The level of bad sent me running through 5e all the way back to B/X and 1st edition AD&D. I'm happy to find what I wanted ... But the nightmares never go away 🤣

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Lol.

6:14 Iron who???? Just kidding just kidding, okay I'm leaving 😀😃😄.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Lol! 🤘

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

Butterfly, obviously

Having seen what's happening to 5e at the moment, I'd (unfortunately) be a little cautious about those "new players" coming into OSR now. The strategy might be "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish." I hope not, but I see it as a definite possibility.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Well, i figure we were all new once. I'm not looking for any more players myself. I have a group of old crotchety guys like myself to play with. But i figure, if they want to play, at least i can put out vids to help them learn the right way.

That was a lame dig at Questing Beast, dude. He's been on yt covering osr for years, a lot longer than you have.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Maybe on KZread, yeah. But when he talks about the osr he’s talking about at what my friends and I did around about 2007-2015. We were there on the blogs and boards creating what he refers to

@robertsconley

Жыл бұрын

Joethelawyer has been blogging about the OSR since 2009 and has been participating longer than that. Rob Conley Bat in the Attic Games

@darkuniversechicken

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer Oh really, you invented old-school play did you? Not Gygax, the man QB refers to throughout the entire video? Did you actually watch the thing? Look dude, I like your videos and I agree with pretty much everything you say here. But as someone who is very very new to osr stuff, most've us have never heard of these older styles of play. All we have to go off of is Critical Role and all this other lame theatre kid style DnD crap. If you'd actually watch the video you'd see QB is simply trying to expose his audience to this older style, not reveal it as some long forgotten truth.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Never said that. I said the osr. I was around when it was formed. With my friends on blogs

As a friend of mine said: "You are entitled to 1hd(or number of hp depending on level) increase every level and the proficiencies, spells, and THAC0 changes that you get when you manage to accomplish gaining a level. Beyond that your character must earn all equipment and other things they want. What hipster bullshit says you're entitled to a castle. Lol at 9th (20th for some classes) you are entitled to now have the ability to maintain a stronghold. Gaining the possibility does not grant the property, staff, etc etc etc. And that's if the DM is following straight book rules. Some GMs (like me) don't have a level requirement on buying a keep as such. Just that it be done with role playing and done in game. Most characters can't even think about that kind of expenditure until later levels." I have always viewed the reason its called "name level" - its not until you've accomplished enough to make it to 9th that anyone with authority has heard of you, and MAY grant you land, or if you carve it out of the wilderness (which might not be an "or") for your future followers to have heard of you and show up at your castle, for those systems that also have followers. And you still have to have accomplished the deeds that would result in that, not simply reach that level.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! I do it the same way.

Man do I stress the moral dilemma. Let them choose their alignment and let their alignment weigh on them.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

The paladin’s dilemma

Ugh. My players have no interest in running their characters off of physical character sheets. But I'm lost in 5e. Gold is meaningless. Magic items? Unnecessary. Combat? No chance of failure. The characters are superheroes. And might I further vent that up to at least 3e, wizards had a cool set of magical defenses like spell turning, globe of invulnerability, simalacrum, and spell triggers that made them feel like wizards? Warriors on either side would clash on the front line while their wizards would be in the back line racing to determine their counterpart's defenses so they could bring them down. It took strategy and knowledge of the spells or creativity. It could turn into a duel that often came down to just a few hp. You protected your wizard (or sorcerer) because if he fell, the enemy spellcaster would turn his attention on you and your other allies. When that happened, your actions were numbered, because that spellcaster was now free to rain all manner of destruction down on you. Chain lightning, chaos... Fireball. In my imagination, this is what combat between powerful wizards looks like. When I first bought 5e, I read through the spells, couldn't find any of this, and was immediately both saddened and confused that this was no longer a part of the game. If dnd one or 6e or whatever the hell they're calling it continues down this path, I'm out. I'm hopping of the train and hitching a ride back to the game I fell in love with. And I will be telling these strange new gamers who are not geeks or rejects to stay off my lawn.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

LOL! yeah its not looking good for 6e man. if every class can do magic or stuff that feels like magic, then magic isn't mysterious and cool anymore. that's one huge difference between new and old school games. wizards couldn't do a lot every round of combat in the old games, but when they unleashed it was like a force of nature. thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed comment buddy. :)

@xezazase

Жыл бұрын

@@Joethelawyer Thanks for making the kind of videos to inspire my rants lol.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Haha. You’re welcome! I’ve never been called inspirational before. 😂

This video is more of a tantrum than a video explaining why OSR is better. A lot of the examples he gives are exactly the same shit as modern shit, just because they're from his time. Seriously?... Conan the destroyer? That movie is very childish compared to the original... In addition to the fact that Conan is already very super heroic in the books, getting to the point of Gary Stu.

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

It wasn’t supposed to explain why osr is better. Just to help you all understand how it works here. Also conan the destroyer wasn’t as good as the first one. Obviously. The point I was making was that it had the framework for an osr style adventure

Great video!

@Joethelawyer

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Daniel! More to come. 😁