DIY Vacuum Table Part 2 - CNCnutz Episode 211

Ойын-сауық

www.cncnutz.com/2018/04/diy-v...
Following on from the last episode I have made changes to the Vacuum table to get the project back on track. Many thanks to those who provided feedback and suggestions on possible fixes to the problems I faced. In the end I opted for the simplest solution of painting the MDF base and the edges. This sealed the table very nicely and because most of the vacuum was being lost throught the bottom of the table I added a vinyl sheet puchased from a local craft shop for a couple of dollars. It is very effective and enures the perfect seal on the bottom. Once this was done the vacuum was restored along with its holding power. The solution I used was only one of several suggested by viewers all of which would have worked
Suggestions
Use a non porus material for the base like Plastic sign board or HDPE
Use Malamine coated MDF and seal the edges with edge banding.
Seal the MDF with paint, shellac or similar product.
Leave the vacuum running while painting to pull the paint deeper into the MDF to get a better seal.
Cover the MDF with a vinyl or similar coating.
Getting a better seal
Even with the table sealed and maintaining the vacuum the issue of sealing the material to the tabletop remains. With the table flat there are still small paths for the vacuum to escape due to material imperfections. What is needed is come form of gasket to get the good seal and many solutions use Orings. these won't work if you want to cut through the material as I do and making special vacuum bases per project isn't practical.
I remember Micheal, who visited me about 18 months ago, telling me he used some form of material between his vacuum table top and the stock to get a better seal. I can't remember what it was but I had an idea to put a piece of newspaper on the table surface and see how that went. To my surprise and great pleasure it makes a huge difference to the holding power of the vacuum. It will reduse the air flow through the unused holes while alloing the vacuum to build up under the stock. I will also provides a little clearance between the tabletop and the bottom of the stock so when cutting through the cutter won't touch the table surface all going well.
Small Holes
The use of the small holes in each pod looks to be just ideal. The vacuum pulls very quickly but even with most of the pods uncovered or covered with paper the vacuum seems to have good holding power. Had I put 1/4" holes in in each pod the uncovering of just 1 or 2 of them would have meant loss of vacuum on the entire table. It also eliminates the need for sectioning off areas of the tabletop though if I had made it larger it mag have been necessary.
Vaccum source
This is the hardest problem to solve and something you need to be aware of.
Vacuum cleaners are not made to but used with vacuum tables. While they obviously work and are used by many people the restricton of the hose robs the cleaner of the necessary cooling air it needs to keep the motor cool. If you don't cool the motor it WILL burn out. The vacuum I used in part 2 of this video is made by Festool but has been superceeded. It has seperate cooling for the motor so is a good option for this project.
The motor cooling outlet can bee seen as the grill on the front of the cleaner and the exhaust for the vacuum is visible on the left hand side of the cleaner. when you block the hose the exhause on the left stops but the one at the front keeps blowing. the only down side of these is the cost but it is a professional unit made to collect fine sanding dust etc. At over $1000 for one of these I think I will borrow my brothers on the occassions I need it.
Other options are real vacuum pumps though I dont know what size pump is really needed for this application. Ebay has some cheep ones at less than $100 USD but whether it will work with a midsize table top I don't know.
The other suggestion was to convert an air compressor to pull a vacuum. After all while it blows at one end it has to suck at the other. I'm told it can be done quite simply and not loose the compressor function.
I actually have a 2 stage vacuum pump that I used to use as a compressor but its piston seals are damaged and it will not pull a vacuum any more. If I can find a suitable material I may be able to repair it but in the meantime the current setup will work just fine.
Please be aware of ordinary vacuum cleaner limitations.
Well that is all for this project. I am looking forward to using it on an upcoming video so until next time
Cheers
Peter
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Пікірлер: 129

  • @dedub222
    @dedub2224 жыл бұрын

    Great Videos both part one and part two. I just made one for myself using V Carve and my Axiom CNC. This video series was paramount in giving me the design ideas to make it happen. My table is only 2'x3' but I used the exact same concept as yours. I love the top feed manifold, it works perfect and you've done a great job at showing all the possible issues that might come up. More importantly the why behind what you did. Thanks again!

  • @paulvandriel2344
    @paulvandriel23446 жыл бұрын

    This is a great solution for this kind of vacuum table, Peter. It works good with the vacuum cleaner option because of the tiny holes, I guess. The volume of air the vacuum cleaner sucks out of the system is much larger than the tiny holes can let through if you block a bunch of them. For that reason I think it might also work good with a vacuum pump system that has a pump not capable of moving large volumes of air, like most small light ones. Those move around 85 litre or so per minute, which is not as much as a vacuum cleaner does. However, I think that the more vacuum can be applied to the workpiece on the table, the better it is. What you want to achieve is a maximum vacuum of -1 bar, resulting in a holding pressure of around 10.000 kg per square meter/1 kg per square centimetre. A small workpiece of, lets say 10cm x 10 cm will have a hold down pressure of a 100 kg at -1 bar, and a workpiece of 20cm x 20cm has already 400 kg hold down pressure! To achieve that, the system should have no leaks or vent holes in it. This is practically impossible, there will always be some kind of leaking, if it only were at the contact surface of the workpiece and the vacuum table. This can be reduced by using some kind of rubber sealing strip (often seen on vacuum tables with the block grid and air channels). Even a high quality vacuum cleaner like the Festool can not achieve this maximum vacuum, neither an average vacuum pump (unless you buy an expensive lab vacuum pump with oil seals or the like). So, although I think your present vacuum cleaner vacuum table is the best possible solution for this kind of setup, I've found that it is better and more effective to use a vacuum pump that can hold the vacuum at maximum possible negative pressure. After long searching and tinkering around ( I've build a vacuum forming machine with a converted shop compressor that works damn good, better than expensive machines that I've seen in professional shops) I finally found the kind of control that I was looking for in........of course China. It's an digital vacuum pressure switch/controller that can easily be mounted on a shop compressor. With some minor changes you suddenly have a combination of shop compressor and vacuum pump in one with added benefit of a buffer tank. All for less than US $ 150 (brand new shop compressor and vacuum/pressure controller) and some valves and hoses. Many makers are using a CNC (with vacuum table?), vacuum hold downs on the workbench, vacuum forming machines, vacuum bags for veneering or making your own plywood, etc. This can now be all operated from 1 vacuum pump/pressure pump. A significant saving on costs in the shop, I guess. I will send you some pictures of my setup and a short explanation how to do it, leaving it up to you when (and if) you want to make a video of it and share it with the community. By the way, the surfacing of your vacuum table is a masterpiece of craftsmanship! Man, do you have your spindle dead on square in all directions. I was speechless when seeing it. Thank you so much for all the excellent videos you have put on your channel, I've learnt a lot of them. Please keep it up!

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Paul, I look forward to seeing your compressor conversion. Sounds great. I used it to flatten some wood last night and it held the wood well. No more clamps in the way. I spent a bit of time last year tramming the machine and it seems to have paid off. Cheers Peter

  • @DCDLaserCNC
    @DCDLaserCNC3 жыл бұрын

    That newspaper trick was ingenious!

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks

  • @DCDLaserCNC

    @DCDLaserCNC

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cncnutz I always enjoy your videos. Your explanations are spot on. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

  • @BeaulieuTodd
    @BeaulieuTodd Жыл бұрын

    This is fantastic! I already have a vacuum pump. Definitely building one of these!

  • @brandonatallian2128
    @brandonatallian21285 жыл бұрын

    Great video and explanations! Can't wait to build my own vacuum table now. Thank you

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Brandon

  • @MassoCNCAustralia
    @MassoCNCAustralia6 жыл бұрын

    Great one Peter, a lot of times things look simple but as you demonstrated that there is so much that you only find out after you put your idea to the test, thanks for putting in time into all this research.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Jat. It's always interesting when things don't go as planned. I knew mdf was porous and was used for vacuum tables but never imagined how porous they actually are. I assumed very powerful vacuums but the shop Vac was pulling are through far more than could have imagined. It's always the things you think are simple that trip you up. Cheers Peter

  • @23fields

    @23fields

    6 жыл бұрын

    Masso CNC Controllers looking forward to your live stream this week man

  • @MassoCNCAustralia

    @MassoCNCAustralia

    6 жыл бұрын

    thank you, please let us know if you want a topic to be covered

  • @canvasman34
    @canvasman346 жыл бұрын

    Hey Peter, Amazing how something as simple as news paper can solve a problem. Nice video!

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    I was surprised how much effect it had. I knew the newpaper had to have some practical use otherwise why would they make it? Cheers Peter

  • @sandmandave2008

    @sandmandave2008

    6 жыл бұрын

    On my big 5 x 10 foot machine we use plastic sheeting to seal off areas not covered by the substrate within the zone. This is a system using only MDF with no holes as the spoil board. I wonder if plastic would have the same effect or even work better than the newspaper. I'm thinking of building an auxiliary vacuum hold down like yours for small parts. My 13 hp 3 phase regenerative blower holds down sheets even as small as 2 foot by 2 foot very well but anything much smaller doesn't work.

  • @mostafa_fandud
    @mostafa_fandud6 жыл бұрын

    Thank you peter for great info i really like the way to fix it .

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Mostafa

  • @JohnMadeit
    @JohnMadeit5 жыл бұрын

    Great. I'm been wanting to make one and you gave lots great info.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks John. As a suggestion don't drill. The tiny holes. In the center until. You have tested it first. With the porus nature of MDF I don't think it is needed. But you can quickly test it first before drilling the holes. Cheers Peter

  • @drmkiwi
    @drmkiwi6 жыл бұрын

    Great info in this video, thanks Peter. I will definitely try some of these ides to improving the holding power on my system. My biggest problem is not holding the work piece down at the beginning of a job, but holding it down having pierced the bottom surface of (or being some way part through) the job being cut. Something that exacerbates this problem is any sheet that has a slight bow. One method around this is "onion skinning" which requires you cut all pieces leaving a super thin skin and without piercing the bottom surface. (It still requires the board being held down during the final pass or there will be a lot of clean up by hand!) Cheers, David

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks David. I'm hoping I will be able cut all the way through but will onion skin it until the final pass. Fingers crossed it will wodk as imagined. Cheers Peter

  • @104Tomcat
    @104Tomcat6 жыл бұрын

    Tried the newspaper tip and it works great or me! Going to look at some sort of plastic backing & try that too. ALL good tips, thank you!

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Good one David. It might catch on and become the new standard for vacuum table gaskets. Cheers Peter

  • @104Tomcat

    @104Tomcat

    6 жыл бұрын

    For as simple and yet effective as it is...why not?

  • @robertvanrosmalen5786
    @robertvanrosmalen57866 жыл бұрын

    Peter, I using a blower vacuum port the motor is a stand motor with a cooling fan. The blower output blows the warmer air outside. The blower is a leftover and did not cost a lot. Thanks for your good idea. Robert

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Robert great idea.

  • @Fordallas
    @Fordallas5 жыл бұрын

    I had to laugh. I've used the paper trick on the vacuum table for a $1M+ CNC Laser system.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    I'll swap machines if you like. I'll even throw in some new edition papers. Cheers Peter

  • @rok1475
    @rok14755 жыл бұрын

    Every wet shop vacuum will work. The second-hand ones have the best price/performance ratio :-)

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Robert Great advise on the 2nd hand side wet & dry. I should have a look around and see if i can find one myself. Cheers Peter

  • @23fields
    @23fields5 жыл бұрын

    some people are also using the intake ports on old compressors from freezers and refrigerators

  • @zulfqarali8603
    @zulfqarali86036 жыл бұрын

    Its called Vilmill. Vilmill™ is a specially coated Mill Through Mat. With this mat, very small parts can be cut out - without slipping but your invention is genius mate. BTW Vilmill is available in large quantities in Europe if you need some let me know.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Zulfqar. Very impressive stuff. Thanks for the offer but the paper seems to be working fine at the moment. Cheers Peter

  • @silicon.alchemist
    @silicon.alchemist5 жыл бұрын

    One way to eliminate leakage through the base plate is to simply use melamine board instead of MDF. The melamine coating will seal it up nicely. You will have to use the heat seal edge banding to seal the edges. Route a continuous groove around the outside edge of the cross grooves and put in a piece of the urethane backer rod used to fill gaps around windows etc to make a better seal. As far as your top, a simple piece of Superlite MDF or lightweight MDF is porous enough to use for the top sheet without having to drill any holes in it. You may have to skim cut the top and bottom to remove the compressed outer layer to make it a bit more porous, and seal the edges. Seal edges with 1 part PVA glue mixed with 3 parts water. This will seal better than paint or polyurethane, which dries porous because the solvent evaporates leaving microscopic voids in the coating. MG

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Darrell, I bought some 1/4" Oring material to use as a seal and have promptly lost it. I as looking for it earlier this week anand still can't find the damn thing. Worse I have bought 2 lots for this project and have lost both. I wonder if it is a subconscience thing. Cheers Peter

  • @GervaisCabinets
    @GervaisCabinets3 жыл бұрын

    Thx

  • @lemmerterror
    @lemmerterror4 жыл бұрын

    We use calibrated carton sheets for creating vacuum and it prevents cutting in to the baseplate! Also they use rubber plugs to block off certain airholes and foamtape to block off certain airslots. Might work here!

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    4 жыл бұрын

    I have to ask Lute. What is calibrated carton sheets. I did a search but came up empty. Do you have a link to the product? Cheers Peter

  • @lemmerterror

    @lemmerterror

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@cncnutz Can't find the exact product. But its like greyboard, 2 or 3mm thick.

  • @shelbstrocity
    @shelbstrocity6 жыл бұрын

    Had a thought. No matter how good your dust collection is, eventually little bits of debris get down into the suction holes and will likely clog up those holes. It might be useful to add an air compressor port that you could apply pressure in the other direction to blow the holes out. Either way, nice video. I'm think you could add up the area of the holes to get an approximate flow need by a vacuum pump. Especially with the newspaper trick and that you will probably have x% covered at all times with your work piece / cover plates... it probably doesn't need to be that big. Apply a healthy safety factor to be sure.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Andrew, One of my thoughts was given how much MDF leaks air I suspect the small holes might not be necessary. Guess I will never know. I made the top removable with a few screws so they could be cleaned easily but compressed air would be quicker for sure. Will do some calculations and see if I can figure out the air flow. Cheers Peter

  • @drmkiwi

    @drmkiwi

    6 жыл бұрын

    Interesting point Andrew. FWIW, on my table, I have been using the same sheet of skimmed MDF for about 3 years. (The machine is not used every day) but I have never experienced a loss of holding power, nor does it appear as though the absolutely minute dust particles have had much impact on the filters in my vacuum pump. Cheers, David

  • @shelbstrocity

    @shelbstrocity

    6 жыл бұрын

    DRMNZ thanks for the feedback. Good to hear from someone that's been using one for a decent time. If it's never a problem, then don't fix what isn't broke! Edit: original reply didn't sound friendly when I read it back.

  • @shelbstrocity

    @shelbstrocity

    6 жыл бұрын

    CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) I don't know where you live Peter, but AutoZone has a vacuum pump in their loan a tool program that is used for pulling all the air out of air conditioning systems before your charge them. The tool rental is free if you return it. Might be worth trying.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    I live in New Zealand and we don't have Auto Zones here. But of a pity as I could do with recharging my vehicle aircon as well. Cheers Peter

  • @daviddeitrick27
    @daviddeitrick276 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for an informative and thought provoking video. Several have posted information about using MDF as a surface for a vacuum table without any modification to the surface except flattening it. I had been wondering if smaller parts could effectively be held if the area subjected to the vacuum pump were smaller. Your newspaper trick suggests that might be true. Wonder if self stick shelf liner would work to seal the back. Would be thinner and perhaps less expensive than the material it looked like you were using.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks David. The material I used on the back is effectively a shelf liner type material. I think it was a couple of dollars for the roll and there is enough to do 2 sides if I wanted. I have seen an industrial machine use a sheet of MDF as the table top as you describe but always thought you needed an industrial vacuum to pull through it. Looks like I was wrong. How good it is for holding small pets I don't know. I have see small pods that people use for holding parts And they hold on like grim death but whether they are suitable for the application is another matter. The small pods have Orings and a central hole for pulling the vacuum. Cheers Peter

  • @michaelryan2622
    @michaelryan26225 жыл бұрын

    I am building a small one and using some of your designs. I am cutting a custom pickguard for a guitar out of a material called tortoloid, the back of which any of my 3 or 4 kinds of double sided tape won't stick enough to. This stuff is $50 for a small sheet and is only .029 thick so it easly can be picked up etc. I can get the ds tape to stick if I remove the adhesive back cover which is so slippery but then I don't have the cover to protect it until I am ready to put it on. I have the feeds and speeds etc done on another pickguard I can throw away . Ihave a couple of the rockler pucks but they deform it too much. I may try just drilling holes through some mdf for those.

  • @mitchimal
    @mitchimal4 жыл бұрын

    I find lifting force is important when using large sheets of ply and MDF with bowing in the sheet. Without that pull down the workpiece comes up in the centre. Have you kept this or made a new one since Pete?

  • @Vandel212
    @Vandel2125 жыл бұрын

    A vacuum pump might work if you cover up the holes that would normally be open. Silicon mats would probably work fantastic for it. Just lay down the part, and cover up the open holes.

  • @charlesdeshler202
    @charlesdeshler2025 жыл бұрын

    I built a vac table this weekend.... NoJoy!... Trying this style next. I am dying to no what the material was that "Michael" used in place of the news print. LOL... Thanks Peter.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    I thought that Michael had replied in the comment section but i couldn't see it. It moght be worth you reading through the comments and see if you can spot it. Cheers Peter

  • @MegaTopdogs
    @MegaTopdogs6 жыл бұрын

    Nice video Peter ,what you can not solve with a newspaper.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Geert. Very true

  • @23fields
    @23fields6 жыл бұрын

    Hey man i got that halftone photo done other day.Ive done more that turned out better. The one i made the video of was my first try. I have some big things in the works and getting to what i made my channel for.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    I watched the video the other day. It looks like a PhotoVCarve type of cut rather than halftone to me. What software did you use to generate the Gcode? I like that the image is revealed as it is cut where mine need to be painted once it is cut to see the final image. Cheers Peter

  • @23fields

    @23fields

    6 жыл бұрын

    the software is a free one i forgot what its called there is a link to it in the video description.Your able to choose from different toolpaths dots lines squares circles

  • @kindervelt2005
    @kindervelt20056 жыл бұрын

    One option for solving the motor cooling issue, at least here in the US, would be to use a common wet/dry shop vac. In those, the motor is cooled by its own, separate fan and does not use any of the vacuum air to cool it.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Good point. Those have to have separate cooling as pulling water through the motor is an even worse idea than pulling dust through. Good thinking. Cheers Peter

  • @NZwoodworker

    @NZwoodworker

    6 жыл бұрын

    The old vacuum i converted for my sander before i brought the festool is a old wet and dry kirby vacuum. Give it a try.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    So your saying you don't need the Festool back. Excellent.

  • @Bishop0178
    @Bishop01785 жыл бұрын

    Get a small vacuumpump, connect it to an old emptied propane tank with a vaccum gauge. That assembly connect to the cnc. Let the tank pull the vaccum..less strain on the pump. Your first design wasn´t so bad. Build a small box 1 1/4 inches tall. Couple of changes on the top. Only a few through holes for the vacuum a few plugs to plug the holes, that arn´t needed. Use O-Ring material. You can get rolls of it and make your own seals with it. that way a vacuum is only created, where it is needed. The whole system shouldn´t cost you more than 300 bucks and should easily fit under your cnc.

  • @Kinvoda
    @Kinvoda4 жыл бұрын

    Any downside to this table in the time you have been using it. I just picked up a used XXL and getting ready to make this table. However, I have not seen anyone come back and revisit vacuum table pro's and cons in any of the videos I have watched.

  • @johnhorne3862
    @johnhorne38626 жыл бұрын

    Good ideas. What about permanently install paper on the table. Guide lines could be drawn on the paper to aide in the location of the part to be cut. This would also keep dust out of the tiny vacuum holes.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    I think the paper might get damaged if you cut all the way through and once the vacuum is on it is very easy to poke a finger through a hole and the vacuum rips the newsprint. I wonder if a small table A4 in size would work. Then the paper could be printed as needed and with guides the paper could be easily located. Would be good for small projects. Interest idea. Cheers Peter

  • @davidmaes3253
    @davidmaes32535 жыл бұрын

    The bed where you create the vacuum in needs to be airproof. MDF is NOT that because of its let-trough structure (you can buy mdf airstones for in an aquarium). You have to close both bottom and the sides of this bed with a few layers of very thin paint to (impregnate and) choke the wood, so the only way for the air to get in via the top. Then lay a thin ply of expendable mdf (also with painted sides) on top of this. Your workpiece goes on top of this. There is a way to have the vacuum fit 100% your chape, but that's not possible with the bed you made. If you want I'll explain. I've been working on CNC machines for 24 years now, and have 'some' experience.

  • @craiga92

    @craiga92

    5 жыл бұрын

    Please explain

  • @RBallarddesigns
    @RBallarddesigns6 жыл бұрын

    An option for others may be an old Kirby vacuum. They have the fan set up the same way

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    In the old days they probably knew that pulling dust through a motor wasn't a good idea. The rest of the industry spends its time trying to keep dust out. Cheers Peter

  • @dart70ca

    @dart70ca

    6 жыл бұрын

    Many of the more expensive home vacuum cleaners use a separate cooling system. Most common, and most powerful, are the whole-home built-in systems. You can buy just the motors for those and make your own 'box' to hold them. I believe there are 'black box' vacuum system plans out there on the internet. You can combine several motors in one box to boost the vacuum power.

  • @U_Kamrc
    @U_Kamrc6 жыл бұрын

    Hi Peter. If it would be interesting also for other CNC guys: can you show / explain your moving cable support at the left side in the back of your machine. I am just finishing assembly of my first machine.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    I already have done that in one. Episode 137 is dedicated to my cable management setup. kzread.info/dash/bejne/rIqqzaV9YamwipM.html Cheers Peter

  • @U_Kamrc

    @U_Kamrc

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thx, that was the right stuff and fast!

  • @pwrouzaud
    @pwrouzaud6 жыл бұрын

    Any reason a 60 degree vbit wouldn't work instead of the two step process for drilling the holes? Also, counter-top laminated is a fairly easy process. Perhaps 'it' could also be strong enough contain the small holes. Thanks for the update.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    The only thing I an think of is everytime you resurface the tabletop the pod size will decrease. Also depending on how level the top of the base layer is the small hole at the bottom will vary in size. A very small error in cutter depth makes a big difference to the final hole size. A good bit of out of the box thinking but I don't think it would work. Cheers Peter

  • @mocarver
    @mocarver6 жыл бұрын

    Hi Peter from Texas. I am curious about how you are liking the vacuum device? I want to make one about that size. What new ideas or changes have you made ? Thanks

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    I have only used it for 1 project and it worked as it should. Not really enough experience with it to say one way or another but I am happy with it so far. Cheers Peter

  • @dwaynejohnson7499
    @dwaynejohnson7499 Жыл бұрын

    Nice video, could you provide a link to the specific vacuum you recommend

  • @silverape424
    @silverape4245 жыл бұрын

    Hi Peter, This is a nice one. Good explained and learned from errors. I have seen the question about the building plans for this vacuum but there was no answer from you yet. Would you mind sharing the plans? I am designing it myself in Fusion 360 but I don't know the exact dimensions. Greetings.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Hi Aaron Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been considering the request and while the table works well I think I can make it better which is why I haven't released plans at this time. I picked up some oring material recently to better seal the top and bottom and want to do some testing to see if the pockets I machined into the top are really needed. I hope to get this underway this month if I can. Cheers Peter

  • @silverape424

    @silverape424

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@cncnutz Hi Peter, no problem. In the meantime I have designed and made one myself. I am now putting on some sealer (paint) but it already works great. I used your design as a starting point but with my own dimensions and my top is one piece (shop vac inlet and plate in one). With the oring I don't think you need the pockets in the top indeed. Keen to see what you will make!

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Nice one. Hope it works well for you. Cheers Peter

  • @raymondfriesen7978
    @raymondfriesen79786 жыл бұрын

    OK. I'm confused (course that don't take much!!). When you put the paper over the board, why does that not seal off the vacuum from the part when you lay it on the paper? Is the paper just permeable (to vacuum) enough to still pull the work piece? Or is there some kind of magic involved...

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Hi Raymond. Personally I go for magic but really paper is very porous so the air just pulls through it. If 18mm MDF won't stop it then 0.2mm of paper won't but consider this. While it is 0.2mm thick once it is compressed between the tabletop and the stock the paper is up to 200mm thick horizontally which seals the centre ports very effectively. The sealing ability reduces as you get closer to the edges of the stock but every little helps. The result is a better vacuum and more holding. The paper also reduces the air loss through unused ports but do not stop it. Definitely magic. Cheers Peter

  • @raymondfriesen7978

    @raymondfriesen7978

    6 жыл бұрын

    Makes sense to me, I would have never thought paper to be that porous, but obviously it is. Magic would be more fun though, but I guess facts are more dependable. Great project. I will try to make me something along the lines of yours. I have a vacuum pump (Chinese type, but pretty good) but I will have to try to come up with some way of filtering the dust out of the suctions lines. Don't want the dust going through the impellers of the vacuum pump.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Will be interested to see how your vacuum pump goes and to see what pump you are using. A quick filter you could use might be an inline fuel filter for a car. Just plug it into the hose line. Cheers Peter

  • @carlpetitt2241
    @carlpetitt22414 жыл бұрын

    Hi Peter, there's one thing about using the paper that is confusing me: how is it that the paper can both seal off the remaining holes yet allow enough air through for the workpiece to be held down? Seems like those two conditions shouldn't be able to exist simultaneously. Maybe I missed something?

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    4 жыл бұрын

    It doesn't seal the holes. It is there to improve the seal. The holes are so small that the vacuum can keep up with the air loss from the uncovered ones. Cheers Peter

  • @ChaosOptional
    @ChaosOptional6 жыл бұрын

    Hi Peter, shall I send you some of the cloth that I talked about? Also, glad wrap (movers or pallet wrap grade) is a simple option to cover unused holes.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for the offer Micheal but I will see how it goes with the paper first. Do you have a link to the magic material so I can have a read up about it? Thank you for the inspiration for this project. It took a little while to get started but I got there. Now I need to use it for a project. Cheers Peter

  • @ChaosOptional

    @ChaosOptional

    6 жыл бұрын

    Here the links: This is my favorite fleece; it has some sticky stuff (very technical) on it, which will melt when cutter and part heat up and bounds the part to the fleece - very handy for small parts when the hole raster does not line up or the parts are simply to small. When working with material which simply does not heat up enough (or mustn’t heat up) I simply use an iron to iron on the fleece i.e. for small plexiglass parts: portatec.de/en/vilmill-technologie/ The next is basically the same stuff that vacuum formers use to line their bigger vacuum molds. Should be easy enough to get hold of: www.sorotec.de/shop/Vacuum-Fleece-230--1mm.html?language=en

  • @ChaosOptional

    @ChaosOptional

    6 жыл бұрын

    Oh, and another thing; the table should be surfaced under vacuum, as the entire system will yield and distort under the vacuum. Don't worry about the holes clogging, nothing what a vacuum cleaner and a bit of compressed air won't cleanup (and the smaller the holes the better anyway).

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for the links and you make a good point about the vacuum being on while surface the table top. I didn't think of that. Cheers Peter

  • @ChaosOptional

    @ChaosOptional

    6 жыл бұрын

    Your welcome... Sadly learnt the surface issue the hard way and had my findings and fix confirmed at an open house event when talking with some professional vacuum table builders.

  • @johnshaw5217
    @johnshaw52176 жыл бұрын

    Have you tried hooking the suction up to your dust collector??

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    No I haven't John. Those are high volume low pressure but it might be worth a try. Will have to make an adapter for the hose and see. Cheers Peter

  • @thegreenman4898
    @thegreenman48986 жыл бұрын

    hi peter, is it possible you can do a video on a cnc with out of alignment x axis? possible diagnosing and correction? im at a loss as to how to correct it

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Will make this my next video. Cheers Peter

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    Just posted a video on squaring the X & Y axis. I think it is waht you are looking for. Cheers Peter kzread.info/dash/bejne/nolky7yEkc3Wn9I.html

  • @thegreenman4898

    @thegreenman4898

    6 жыл бұрын

    thats great peter, thanks ;0)

  • @trondwell13
    @trondwell135 жыл бұрын

    A lot learnt - i am thinking i will try to remove dust and create a vacuum at the same time.....i guess i am in for the same surprises... thanks

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    Interesting idea Dan. Hope. It works out for you. Cheers Peter

  • @trondwell13

    @trondwell13

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@cncnutz Ah - my dust extractor hasnt got the muscle. So far i have built a 265x810x 100mm high MDF block with a hose attachment, and am lacquering the exposed sides but the table side and the top side i am machining flat and square to aid porosity and like you i will add holes as required and an adjustable fence( i usually only hold down small pieces of oak 100x500mm) which i am hoping will be much easier with a vacuum table - thanks again for your video

  • @trondwell13

    @trondwell13

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@cncnutz Well mine works to a point - i fill the unused area holes with small countersunk screws - but any twist in the object causes trouble - i am thinking a rubber gasket might be an option (seen in another video - which reference i am going to try to find) - thanks again

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    I'm going to do the same on my new build. I bought the oring. Rubber when I was visiting the big smoke a couple of weeks ago . What I really should have bought is time. Cheers Peter

  • @johnlyons4750
    @johnlyons47503 жыл бұрын

    Sorry if I missed it, but do you have anymore detail on the gasket material?

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    3 жыл бұрын

    Hi John. There S nothing special about it. It is 6mm round and on medium softness so easy to compress with the fingers but bounces back immediately. Not hard like oring rubber. I bought it at para rubber if that helps. Not sure what it's real purpose is but probably some sort of weather seal material. Hope it helps. Cheers Peter

  • @johnlyons4750

    @johnlyons4750

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cncnutz Thanks for the quick response. Wasn't sure if older video's were even monitored.

  • @Z-add
    @Z-add5 жыл бұрын

    So only the festool one has a separate cooling path? What about dewalt makita? Any one knows

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    I'm sure Makita and Dewalt make vacuums that also have alternative cooling but it is a matter of finding which models. The easy way to test is to turn the vacuum on and block the hose. If there is still cooling air blowing from the cleaner then it must have alternative cooling. Look at wet and dry Vacuums as these are your best bet and should have separate cooling. Only an idiot would design one of these to pull water through the motor but test it just in case. hope this helps Cheers Peter

  • @mattivirta

    @mattivirta

    7 ай бұрын

    stupid buy festool because you can buy less than 150$ REAL vacuum pump, festool or other normal vacuum cleaner have worst use. my cnc have vevor 3 CFM vacuum pump less than 100$ and suck all parts good to table. REAL vacuum pump have totally lot betyter than burn you vacuum cleaner motor. and cheapen than new cleaner have.

  • @GregJoughin
    @GregJoughin6 жыл бұрын

    What's the artist/title/source for the music between 4:26 and 4:55? Shazam is coming up empty....

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    It's called Behind closed doors by Otis McDonald. Part of Google copyright free music for KZread videos. Cheers Peter

  • @foxtrot1787
    @foxtrot17876 жыл бұрын

    any videos on two sided machining?

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    6 жыл бұрын

    There are 2 videos on 2 sided machining. Episodes 53 & 54 kzread.info/dash/bejne/l62kzaOlpMbHYKQ.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/dGGHuadwnabLo7w.html

  • @666Azmodan666
    @666Azmodan6665 жыл бұрын

    make a pompe from the compressor from the fridge.

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    5 жыл бұрын

    I looked at it but I don't think a. Fridge compressor could pull the volume of air I need for the table. I have seen people make them in the past but there is never an old fridge about when you need one. Cheers Peter

  • @llemieux1660
    @llemieux16602 жыл бұрын

    where’s the spoil board?

  • @Bigwingrider1800
    @Bigwingrider18003 жыл бұрын

    A HARBOR FREIGHT 2 HP GET RID OF THE BAGS AND IT WOULD BE CRAZY POWERFUL ...WOULDN'T YOU THINK?

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    3 жыл бұрын

    If you talking dust collector then I don't think it would. Dust collector and vacuum pump are 2 different things. A vacuum cleaner is somewhere in the middle though closer to Dust collector end. Cheers Peter

  • @user-cr6ki4qs4y
    @user-cr6ki4qs4y2 жыл бұрын

    Are you available for hire for a project very similar to this? It would involve paper rather than wood.

  • @wiliamc4016
    @wiliamc40163 жыл бұрын

    Do you have public plans for this?

  • @cncnutz

    @cncnutz

    3 жыл бұрын

    Not for that particular one but have a look at this 2 part video. It has plans and is based off this design. kzread.info/dash/bejne/d4losNCQeJSemKw.html

  • @RozetRides
    @RozetRides5 жыл бұрын

    or..... you can design and machine your own piston pump that operates reverse what an air compressor does.

  • @mattivirta
    @mattivirta7 ай бұрын

    can buy cheap vacuum pump about 2-4 CFM suck pump have normal used cnc table what has DIY made. and keep part good on table. normal have 3CFM pump what many uses. very cheap less than 100$ can buy. cheapen than owerprice festool shit vacuum. festool ALL tools have shit and totally owerprice. same can buy many other brand 3-5x cheapen.