Nice in-depth guide, you're a legend

Thanks for this detailed great video. I can feel the time and effort you sink into this game from that maxed axe. I think what makes leveling up axe tricky is the training bonus magnifying the basic stats rather than a flat plus.

@sergiocervantes7633

3 жыл бұрын

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thank you great vid

I'll be getting this game on Steam in a few weeks, but I can't watch the whole video at the moment, so I want to ask if the item world generates funky(read: nearly impossible to complete) maps like in the first one. Nothing sucked more than having the Armsmaster show up on an island ten tiles out of range of both my throwers and my spell casters.

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

Nope, Item World layouts in 5 are tame compared to those in 1.

I know this is an old video but hopefully can get a response. Does it matter what order you do stuff. i.e. does your innocent need to be on the item from the offset or are the multiplications done retroactivly once applied. So on the same vein Is it worth diving for bosses to cap rarity before leveling the item up through clearing floors. etc. Does any of this make a difference or do you just get the same item at the end either way.

@blueeyesmew

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter what order you do things in (except axes) but you want the innocents on the item while obtaining training bonus. Doing training bonus before kill bonus is fine though.

@jollyjester177

3 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew your a champ, thank you

So I have like 12 characters at 40m stats. I have 1 trap at level 500 and a bunch of hard worker and sniper innocents at 50k. What should by next progression be? (Using comet disaster build btw). Should I farm other R40 items and start maxing them out? Is that the only way to get past 40m in stats? If so, what item should I start on first, the R40 staff? Thanks for your guides btw, I wouldn’t have progressed this far without them!

@blueeyesmew

Жыл бұрын

Items are the main way to get past 40m stats. Eclipse Power also exists, but is painfully slow to max and has to be built up by killing Item World bosses (or Netherworld Research Overlords for some reason) anyway. It's possible to beat everything in the game without maxing items, though for Carnage Baal you'd want a 2b HP curry (Carnage Elixir/Sundae in the main slot, sub1, sub2, and another 182+ in other for 185+ total). Assuming you want to reach 99m stats though: Hard Worker and Sniper aren't going to help with maxing items (only single-stat innocents work for that), they're only useful for the stats on the innocents themselves. Finish at least soft-capping (kill bonus and training bonus too, not just level) a non-weapon item if you haven't already. Non-weapon equipment is useful to everyone and there are 3 slots for it instead of 2. For a quick item to work on the current suggestion is Carnage Hercules' Armor via Carnage Aegis Shield (actually soft-caps slightly faster than Carnage Trapezohedron when including HP, and it has more movement), but you've already started working on a Trapezohedron so you might as well finish that. It was realised how good Carnage Hercules' Armor was after I'd already started making vids. The best item to work on though is a Carnage Barefoot X (via Carnage Vernier Thruster) as it's tied (with Axel Gear) for highest movement in the game and isn't locked into a specific unique innocent. However you'd want a 50k single-stat innocent for each non-SPD stat on it since it needs those to help it grow from 0 stats (Dietician can be added last after the item gains POP slots from defeating Item Generals/Gods). It'd also take about 3x as much training bonus as a Carnage Trapezohedron or Hercules' Armor. You could then work on weapons if you want (which will generally want 50k single-stat innocents like the Carnage Barefoot X), though it's possible to reach 99m stats with an unleveled weapon. Other than swords (Great Baal Horn exists) I'd suggest Item God 2 R40 weapons (staff is a good option) for the extra movement (this applies even if you don't level them). The extra starting stats on the mystery room R40 weapons make them faster to soft-cap, but you're already maxing excess items so that defeats the purpose of being faster to max anyway and you might as well work on the weapons that give the most benefit in the long run. Revenge Booster R40s work fine in the subweapon slot so are also low priority to max, but if you want maxed weapons in both slots then go ahead and max those too. Axes are actually really good due to having a hidden bonus to critical damage (they deal 1.65x instead of 1.5x, or with a Professional 2.65x instead of 2.5x). However maxing them is more complicated - you have to fix the negative stats with bills before they become unfixable. Most Carnage Axes are already unfixable, so the best axe to max would be non-Carnage Zillion's Buster. Whatever you end up maxing you can then repeatedly dupe via a mystery room (the one with the Item God on top of a tower). The chances of that room working start at 50% and gradually increase as floor count increases (reaching 100% at floor 10k). To get more stats from your equipment max your weapon mastery for that item type, and also max aptitudes via Chara World. At 300% aptitudes, maxed mastery (acts like another 200% aptitudes for 500% total), 10m level-up stats, 10m extracts, +100% stats from evilities/squads, and 3 soft-capped items you reach 99m stats.

@ltmaniac

Жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew Ty so much for your comment. I actually saved it into a word doc and was referencing it today haha. I actually just got the legendary LOC version of the staff today, very surprising since I don’t have a character with maxed out staves. (88 is the highest staff proficiency I have). In your comment it said the legendaries soft cap more easily (they don’t have 0 stats like the genesis wand has). However it seems r40 genesis wand gives more long term benefit? So I should max the genesis wand over Yggdrasil? Thanks!

@blueeyesmew

Жыл бұрын

@@ltmaniac Genesis Wand has extra movement (and jump), meaning it does something other than just provide stats that can cap without it. Carnage Mystery Room R40s don't need 100 mastery, that was just a wrong guess players made (the non-Carnage ones do need 40 mastery though). They actually require having owned a Carnage Revenge Booster or Carnage IG2 R40 of the same weapon type. Great Baal Horn doesn't count for obtaining the Carnage Catastrophe, but it's basically outright better than it anyway.

hey i have a question, is there a diffrent item stats from leveling item with 0* and 20* difficult ?, i wanna try leveling up Trapezohedron. so if there any diffrent can you tell me about it.

@blueeyesmew

2 жыл бұрын

20* gives kill bonus 21x as fast as 0*. Also I'd actually suggest a Carnage Hercules' Armor (stolen from the Item God 2 of a Carnage Aegis Shield) if you want something quick to max - it actually maxes slightly faster when including HP and has more movement. If you want something better in the long run then get a Carnage Barefoot X (stolen from the Item God of a Carnage Vernier Thruster) - it has the highest movement in the game, though would take about 3x as long to max and would require a 50k single-stat innocent for each non-SPD stat.

@akhmadfadillah9877

2 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew thank you for the information, and i wanna try the Hercules armor, and thanks for the tips

@blueeyesmew

2 жыл бұрын

@@akhmadfadillah9877 No problem, happy to help.

How did you get the enemies to fight you in the mystery room where you obtain the pie item?

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

Talk to the Fight Mistress (so she throws pies at the mage), then keep talking to the mage repeatedly until she gets mad at you.

Bit confused here on axes. Are you saying that no mater how many 50k speed and hit innocents I put on a r40 carnage axe, it's pretty much unfixable so I can only max rank 1 or 2 carnage axes?

@blueeyesmew

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, or non-Carnage axes. Each 50k innocent makes the base for that stat increase by 0.5 per training bonus. A few of these will offset a stat that's becoming more negative by only a point or so per training bonus, but if that stat is becoming more negative by 30 points or so per training bonus then the innocent bonus can't keep up.

@cronnoponno

3 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew I really liked axes to...that is a huge design flaw imo.

@blueeyesmew

3 жыл бұрын

@@cronnoponno You could still work on something like a non-Carnage Zillion's Buster, you'd just need about 3x as much training bonus (after you're done fixing the negative stats) as you'd need for most Carnage R40s. On the plus side the enemies would be a complete joke.

So in summary of what I am trying to understand. Kill bonus is very important and you need to get it to 400. I don't need to go to level 9999 on a item at all unless if I have lost my sanity, training bonus is a stat multiplier for what I'm understanding and axes are bad for item levelling due to negative stats. I'm still confused about training bonus still. You gain it by killing item generals/gods and proto assblaster and it's a multiplication of the base stats of a item at level 0? So is it wise to just get the rarity of a item to 100 and get the KB to 400 then level it or just don't care and do it normally?

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

Kill bonus soft-caps at 400, yes. Item levels past 500 don't add much, so you don't need to go to 9999. Training bonus multiplies the base stats themselves each time it's gained (until they reach the cap). Everything else is part of a multiplier that is applied to the base stats to give the actual stats. Axes are indeed a pain due to negative stats. Training bonus comes from killing Item Generals/Kings/Gods, killing Proto, clearing entire waves invaders. and winning mystery room fights. You need to get kill bonus to at least 400, level to at least 500, max base stats via training bonus, and 100 rarity (which you will reach before base stats are maxed anyway). Except for axes the order doesn't matter as long as all of these are done.

@neo-zamato

4 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew Thank you so much man it means a whole lot. I already 100% trophy wise this game on ps4 a couple of years ago but I picked it back up again as i wanted to defeat carnage Baal and was so confused about how to optimise my gear. You sir are a legend. I cannot thank you enough about this video. I wish I came across it sooner as well as your channel.

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

@@neo-zamato Glad I could help.

So what actually increases kill/training bonuses? I know bosses do but kill bonus confuses be

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

Training bonus comes from killing Item Generals/Kings/Gods, killing Proto Darkdeath, clearing invaders, winning mystery room fights, and passing bills. Kill bonus comes from killing Item World enemies in general and increases faster at high enemy strength settings. Basically just keep clearing entire floors of enemies on 20* enemy strength.

@xa447

4 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew welp time to throw out my LV 1007 trap and not deal with the stupidly high stat enemies there(my training bonus was at 16 after 50 hours of leveling it)

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

@@xa447 XA44 I've got multiple videos (linked in the description) on methods of handling 20* Carnage R40 Item World enemies (I'd suggest the Murmur of Rage or Comet Disaster methods over the Land Decimator method). A good setup makes all the difference.

@xa447

4 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew started with a fresh item and it's way easier and I am already at about the same point in training it, 20* enemies in the new item are about as strong as 0* enemies in the old one

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

@@xa447 By the time kill bonus reaches 400 the item will have gained a bunch of levels and you'll be dealing with strong enemies again. It's definitely worth trying to tweak your setups if only to get used to getting the most out of your setups. Raw stats honestly won't get you very far. *Edit:* I misread your earlier reply - I assumed your KILL bonus was at 16. Training bonus only shows what you gained during the current trip, so if it shows 16 when you leave then it means you gained 16 training bonus during that trip.

So basically what you're saying is that I shouldn't bother with Stat Growth bills in the Item Assembly when I have maxed Innocents (with the exception of the majority of the Axes). I should just pretty much kill everything, and unlike the other 5 Disgaea games in the series, it's impossible to mess up an item. I wonder if you can do any of the steps in any order...

@blueeyesmew

5 жыл бұрын

Axes are the only item you can mess up. Rarity handles itself in the process of getting training bonus and levels pretty much handle themselves in the process of getting kill bonus. Kill bonus and training bonus can be worked on in any order.

@SpeedBump

5 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew Well I know that, I was just wondering what order can be done, if item perfection CAN be done in any order. Innocent level matters, and the cap is 50K for singular stat ones. The item that already has high stats (i.e. the R40A Carnage Fist Hrimthurse has 75001 for it's ATK and SPD) shouldn't be bothered with, as they're already high themselves?

@blueeyesmew

5 жыл бұрын

@@SpeedBump There's no point in adding innocents for stats that are already much higher than the other stats, you want to boost the growth of the lower stats. There are 4 things that need to be maxed: Base stats Rarity Level Kill Bonus Rarity and base stats are both increased by training bonus (and rarity will be maxed before the base stats, even on the easiest to max items). These are both covered by the same training bonus farming step. Any mystery rooms cleared will also get you levels (and some kill bonus). Clearing floors for kill bonus will get you levels. The kill bonus farming step will cover kill bonus and levels. There pretty much are just those two steps: kill bonus farming and training bonus farming (which tends to get you a bit of kill bonus too). You can do those two steps in either order. You can optionally destroy level spheres and lift level fish too while doing the other steps, but you're likely to end up hitting the item level cap before you're done with everything else anyway. *Edit* At least in terms of steps that need specific effort putting into them. Bills for movement, extra weapon range, jump, etc can be passed whenever as long as you have enough bills to pass and the item is high enough level. You need to kill Item Kings/Gods or Proto Darkdeath for extra chances to pass bills, but by the time you're done with the item you'll have far more than you need. Technically these can't all be passed at the start since you need levels (to be able to propose certain bills at all) and item boss kills (to propose more bills), so these have to be passed after you've already started working on the main steps. You also need enough item points to propose the bills, but that's not part of maxing any specific item, that's just a general thing you do with spare items.

@SpeedBump

5 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew 20 Stars give the most Kill Bonus, does it not?

@blueeyesmew

5 жыл бұрын

@@SpeedBump Correct. The enemy strength setting has a massive effect on kill bonus gained. Even if the item is high enough level that enemies reach their peak before 20* you still get more kill bonus with more stars.

Can you not pass bills to help fix an axes stat to tho?

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

I somewhat cover this towards the end of the vid. You need to pass bills to fix an axe. The problem is that bills don't just give a flat bonus, they also give training bonus, and to be able to pass more bills you need to kill Item Kings/Item Gods/Proto (which also give training bonus). The flat bonus from innocents is also only applied when training bonus is gained. You can't add flat bonuses without also getting training bonus. Training bonus increases a base stat by a proportion of the current value of that base stat, but if that base stat is negative then it adds a negative amount (i.e. makes it even more negative). If the stat is negative enough that all of the the training bonus from bills and Item Kings makes the stat more negative faster than the flat bonus from bills and innocents increases the stat then you can't fix that stat.

@zelow79

4 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew I see, sounds complicated. I'm glad I don't like axes lol.

I don't know how to get any high level ranked items. It's too time consuming. I need help. Where is a good place to start. My patience is thinning with this game.

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

Go into the highest ranked item you already have, e.g. a Carnage Mushroom Soup (to obtain: have a level 9999 unit with the Eryngi Fluid common evility take more than 0 damage from enemies on a Carnage map until the 30% chance works - you might have already obtained one for mastering subclasses in) or Axel Gear (kill normal Baal, which the linked Murmur of Rage setup can do). Check the equipment on enemies, items in the bonus list, and items in the innocent town shop after boss floors/in one of the mystery rooms.

@ericohlman1984

4 жыл бұрын

@@blueeyesmew I'm not that far in. I got some lower level legendary items. I got one that lvl 108 rank 32. Can I level up the item and keep searching? or do I need a minimum higher one?

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericohlman1984 The same process applies for non-Carnage items, though it's really not worth spending a lot of time on those. You shouldn't need to level the item to find higher ranked items unless you're trying to steal the next rank up from the Item God 2 (which will replace the next Item God you encounter after the item is level 80+), which is how you'd obtain R40 items from R39 items.

@AnimeSageyoutubemomentsanime

4 жыл бұрын

blueeyesmew hey quick question how do you get the zillion buster item to have those kinds of high stats please tell me

@blueeyesmew

3 жыл бұрын

@@AnimeSageyoutubemomentsanime Sorry I didn't respond sooner, not sure how I missed this question. You first need to fix the HIT and SPD. To do this you fill it with 50k Marksmen or Coaches and pass the most expensive stat bills for whichever of those stats is currently lower. Kill Item Kings (with those innocents still on the item) for more opportunities to pass Item Assembly bills, but don't get any training bonus from anything else. Keep doing this until the base stats for the item (which you'd have to calculate) are no longer negative. You could instead keep doing this until the displayed stats (not including innocents) are no longer negative, which would be sufficient but overkill. Once the HIT and SPD are fixed you just max it like any other item (though a non-Carnage R40 will max more slowly than a Carnage R40), which is what this vid and the ones that follow on from it are about. For a non-Carnage R40 you'd be able to get away with a much weaker setup than what's needed for a Carnage R40. A Carnage Zillion's Buster has HIT and SPD that are already too bad to fix.

Lower the background music in future videos, hard to hear u at times.

@blueeyesmew

4 жыл бұрын

I'll keep that in mind for future vids.