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I struggled with the argument that conservatives should have stayed and fought more. The problems with that idea, which I didn’t hear brought up, were that first we were given a very limited window in which to leave so we couldn’t wait to “see what happens”. Second, and more importantly, even if conservatives “won” another General conference, which was unlikely, the issue was that bishops and pastors were simply breaking the rules anyway with no recourse. One thing that I agree with you about though is that the GMC HAS to have ways to remove those leaders who are flagrantly breaking the rules. Great conversation though!! Thank you for your show!

@DougFrantz

2 ай бұрын

One element with the zero recourse was that in 2019 they passed a pause on the recourse previously in force. This was an attempted move of grace so progressive clergy and churches could leave without being kicked on the way out. It ended up opening the door to blatant disregard and a power grab.

At one point when I was a child, our family attended a UMC church. I recall my father saying, after he became a Christian (via people not part of that church) around 1970, he was discussing with the pastor who, when pressed, declared he did not believe that Jesus was actually the son of God. So, he searched around and we switched churches. A denomination that installs unbelieving pastors is deeply flawed.

My congregations left a year ago, and now we are growing and following the word of God, not the world

This just proves again that we cannot be complacent in singular victories against this horde like with the African contingent beating back the attack on marriage in the UMC in 2019 (if memory serves correct). We have to acknowledge and rejoice in those victories, but then keep pushing until every single one of these subversives is thrown out of our churches. They *cannot* under any circumstance be tolerated in our midst, because they have a constant revolutionary mindset that will not change until they are either converted or cut off from the body entirely. Their willingness to game the system at this UMC and other like ecclesial gatherings proves that self-proclaimed conservatives and traditionalists have bound themselves to an unnecessary disadvantage; playing by the rules, acting as if the system is still working and we can reform it legitimately. When your enemy willingly and flagrantly ignores the system and charges straight for his ends, this is just begging to lose. My brothers in the UMC and Christians in denominations facing similar challenges need to mobilise and be willing to game the system against the enemy and not wallow in some self-righteous affirmation of what good boys we are because we play by the rules; rules being used to destroy us. Memorise this saying: the purpose of a system is what it does.

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

Well said! Single victories are good but doesn't always win the war.

This GC was so out of step with the local churches. It looked like a left wing political meeting.

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

It really did.

@keepclimbing2015

2 ай бұрын

Because that's what it was.

@TroyRatliff-zq3tt

2 ай бұрын

They have been out of step with the Bible and God’s teachings for years now. When they started openly questioning whether Mary was truly a virgin and Jesus having a homosexual relationship with Lazarus did it for me. I thank God every day my church separated from them, although we are currently in a lawsuit over the buildings.

@janicegardner-fx2pv

2 ай бұрын

Would you please cite a source that says this. It would be helpful. Thanks for the info.

In August 2022 my mother and I chose to leave the UMC church we had been highly active to the point that my parents were lay delegates for the last 10 years prior to my father's death. We left because in 2021 the new pastor assigned to our church was extremely liberal. I had had conversations with him where I heard him say with my own ears but he only believed and followed the red letters of the Bible and did not consider the rest of it to be God inspired. At this point mom and I made the decision to leave the church because we could see the liberal lean of our pastor and superintendent. I had not transferred my membership so when a question and answer Conference was held I attended attended and can see the district superintendent and the pastor were sidestepping or refusing to answer questions that were presented by conservative members in meetings and in Sunday School classes were being told that if they didn't like it to leave the church so the church conservatives of the congregation, 50% or more left

My biggest concern as chair of our local UMC church is that even as a moderate church, it feels very much like there is little room for us in the conversation. It feels like it's shifted from the One Church idea to a you must be affirming or you shouldn't be here message. As annual conferences meet I think we'll get a better handle on where we actually stand.

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

Stay strong. You're in a tough spot. I'm glad though that you're here and God has His place for you in His providence.

@JoelEverettComposer

2 ай бұрын

Prayers for you at your Annual Conference.

@RGabeDavis

2 ай бұрын

May God protect you and keep you during what will be trying times for you Church. Always stand on the Bible

@DougFrantz

2 ай бұрын

Thanks all for the prayers and support. I'm willing to hang in there so long as the church membership is! So long as we're staying faithful all will be well, even if it ends up meaning some radical changes. Members weren't ready to really have the discussion to leave, lots of trust was placed in UMC leadership. God has it covered.

@revdmcspumcsb

2 ай бұрын

My father's already been through that in So. California. Several years ago they replaced the traditional UMC flag with a rainbow flag and forced everyone to wear rainbow pins every week. If you refused, you were ostracized and were excluded from being in any leadership, committee or teaching role.

Not to mention that there were significant budget cuts, 50 percent or more, in almost every area except DEI stuff which received a trivial 0.9 percent cut. One of the main things killing the UMC wasn't even touched. Such a shame.

I'm a UMC member in the Philippines and there are a few UMC are liberal. My relatives are new attending UMC in the Philippines, and I'm very torn to encourage them to keep attending UMC where I used to go. UMC has changed already. It is very different from the one I used to, traditional, concervative.

@maxellton

Ай бұрын

So the teaching of the church vary depending on its location?

@user-hh8hw2wj9b

Ай бұрын

​@@maxellton Probably depending on how faithful they are to the Word.

It is an apostate church. "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition."

Two of my favorites!

Include a link to the Global Methodist Church in your KZread description.

Do you know if there is any plans in the GMC to have a revitalization project. The baptists have the resound network that’s purpose is to assist dying churches in revitalization.

@methodministries

Ай бұрын

Hey! I haven’t heard anything myself of that news.

@RootedReason

Ай бұрын

I wonder how helpful something like that might be when these umc churches leave over the woke garbage but need help getting healthy again.

Getting rid of liberal UMC Bishops continues to be a thorn in the side of orthodoxy in the UMC. Wish we could start there.

@boooshes

2 ай бұрын

Just the opposite has happened

The GMC has a very difficult time ahead. There is a huge deficit in leadership.

@RGabeDavis

2 ай бұрын

Need the Global South to take the lead and not look to the weak western leadership.

@angelbonilla4243

2 ай бұрын

In what way?

@user-zw2nm7zs1b

2 ай бұрын

@@angelbonilla4243 For starters no one, especially Boyette and the TLC ,have thought through the impact of removing the Trust Clause. Many Presiding Elders have no idea what they are doing. Seminaries are fighting to impose their will on the GMC. Local pastors will be trapped between disgruntled local churches who are exhausted leaving the UMC and now have to engage the culture missionally and elite clergy who remain poisoned with the institutional ambition. Large churches are distancing from GMC. Small churches won’t be able to afford the GMC. The GMC has this arrogance of inevitability. What happens when local churches reach out to seminaries directly for clergy candidates? My guess is that the GMC will break up around strong regional leaders unless they become real movement.

Our UMC church which is part of the Holston Conference is praying that Para 2549 will be our exit path after we were intentionally blocked using 2553 last year. At this point it looks like that this could be possible.

As a member of the UMC myself, we should not accept any of these unbiblical changes to the book of discipline.

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

Amen! We're with you!

@CartoonBlast229z

2 ай бұрын

I also still play bass and occasionally lead guitar at my local UMC, and I couldn’t agree more. Amen to you🙏

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

@@CartoonBlast229z Glad to hear that there are faithful Methodist within the UMC still!

@garygardner1321

2 ай бұрын

Sadly, your denomination has made changes to YOUR beliefs that you've avowed loyalty to. Do you stay now in support of their denouncement of the very words of Christ, or do you leave? Each person in the UMC is now very accountable from this point forward.

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

@@garygardner1321 They can stay and fight and be faithful to God still.

I would disagree that Satan is glorified if a once Methodist leaves the denomination and goes non denomination. That's only true if you were leaving the Methodist denomination to deconstruct from Christianity all together. The reason I left was like you both discussed, anything Methodist besides the UMC is constructed from individuals who left the UMC and were not strong enough in unity to stop this in its tracks before so I've decided I find more strength for this reason in a private church. You are all still my brothers and sisters in Christ and I hope and pray the GMC strives and glorifies the Lord to it's full extent. God Bless

Class meetings, class meetings, class meetings...

Its funny that you say people think of them as the g.ay church. I was surprised there was conservative methodist left to leave when I heard about this today.

Would encourage looking into Evangelical Methodist Church as another option.

Rev. Harry F. Ward - MFSA - this has been embedded for quite a while within Methodism; prior to even the formation of the UMC.

@RGabeDavis

2 ай бұрын

Do you have a link for more info I have not heard of this guy

@angelbonilla4243

2 ай бұрын

Old fashioned Social gospel, not like today's silly wokeism.

You just hit the POINT John Wesley did not set up a denomination that’s the issue God never intended for the Church to be Divided by splitting off into all these different groups but ONE LOCAL CHURCH

Leaving the United Methodist Church has different implications for different people For me, UMC in my country has mission schools and a university. What doctrine will be taught in those schools? abandoning schools to elements you disagree with so much that you are willing to leave feels a lot like an abrogation of duty and stewardship. It does not feel like the biblical thing to do

Very sad to see the UMC one of the historical mainline churches of America go woke.hopefully people will look into the apostolic churches (catholic,EO,OO) I’m Catholic so I have a bias 🤣 but sad too see a historic American church go full rainbow and leading souls away from the truth about human sexuality.Praying for Christian unity 🙏🇻🇦✝️👍

@ScottPalmer-mp1we

Ай бұрын

The Catholic religion has tons of its own issues like sexual abuse scandals and law suits so I don't know why anyone would look in that direction.

I really want to like RZ. I think he has some good things to say, but he doesn't understand much. He's something like 23 years old. He's not in the UMC and doesn't know the history of the UMC. He's got 3000 groupies on a discord server that he calls a movement. I am in a UMC that could not afford to disaffiliate but wants to. So we and 7 other churches are suing our conference to disaffiliate. Our pastor thinks more will try to join if they are able after this past week. The fact that so many congregations were kept in the dark or hostage by their pastors or conferences makes my blood boil. BTW my church is in south Jersey close to Philly. Come down sometime.

@methodministries

2 ай бұрын

What’s its name?

@keepclimbing2015

2 ай бұрын

@@methodministries First UMC in Collingswood, NJ

Not true Jeffrey- UMC has the lions share of Methodist expressions in New England. We tried an Anglican Church this Sunday.

@plainspokenpod

2 ай бұрын

In that portion of the conversation, I was trying to recommend to him a FAITHFUL Wesleyan denomination in the region. Yes, the UMC is there...

I’m listening and is agreeing with 92% of the discussion but as a Black man who is Methodist (A.M.E. Church) I find it quite offensive when you couple BLM with the LGBTQ+ movement. No, I’m not a part of the organized BLM but as one who lives in the Black community, pastors a predominantly Black Church and work with young Black women and men who feel they don’t matter in this nation and do not trust the law enforcement agencies.

@lukeony017

2 ай бұрын

BLM was started by self-avowed “trained marxists”. Check it out for yourself. Nothing wrong with helping out your fellow man, but doing so and supporting vocally or otherwise the organization BLM is anti-family and therefore, anti-Christian. Just search BLM and look for a reputable article about its founders, and pass the info along! Society holds these movements up, we need to expose the truth so that people can decide for themselves. And just ultimately follow Christ in all that we do, love others, and not support sin.

@someoneveryclever

2 ай бұрын

What are the positions of the AME, CME, and AMEZ denominations on same-sex marriage? I'm curious as I don't see many articles on their doctrinal positions on social issues. Would you say that the AME, CME, and AMEZ are similar to the Global Methodist Church?

@plainspokenpod

Ай бұрын

I understand why you were offended. But I think you were only offended because you didn't understand me. I do not think a drive for ethnocultural equality is at all the same as the normalization of sexual nonconforming lifestyles. I don't agree that sexual identity is the same as, or even similar to, an identity that comes from one's ethnic and cultural background. The problem I have had with BLM is its obvious and flagrant Neomarxist loyalties, the ways in which it has explicitly worked to destroy black families and criminalize young black folks, and the ways in which it has been used as a cudgel against those who are trying to make things better. Also, their leadership is super corrupt. You should hate them, man. They don't represent you. They do things in the name of all American black folks that actually work against them, whether it be in efforts to defund the police or to racialize all laws. But I'm all on board with racial equality and standing up for the rights of every racial group. If I gave any impression to the contrary, I want to correct that.

Ichabod

I'm not a Methodist, but as a Bible believing Christian I watch a lot of faith based content. About a year and a half ago the Ann Street Methodist disaffiliation meeting popped up on my feed. I don't know why I clicked on it but I did and watched all 90 minutes of it. I even downloaded and shared with a couple of my church small groups. The video was a meeting where any congregant could make a 2 minute speech either for or against disaffiliation. Most were against and for reasons like tradition, the building, programs, community service projects, who are we to judge, and just being part of a big organization with money. Those wanting to break from the UMC stated Biblical reasons for not condoning unrepentant LBGT lifestyles, gay weddings, and gay pastors. Those in my church who saw the video were as intrigued as I was. We weren't gloating over this split in the UMC but rather saw it as a cautionary lesson for our church. I've been following Methodist channels ever since especially now as my denomination removed the restriction on ordaining women pastors. We have set a foot on the slippery slope.

The Methodist Church is officially Dead. It is now Apostatte.

Very perceptive and descriptive of the ugly political nature of this disgusting process. The UMC is lost. Best to move on and make sure the same does not repeat with any future institutions that are formed.

@deanbrandon3615

2 ай бұрын

Maybe what the GMC, in particular, and/or related confederations of Wesleyan churches need is a sort of Constitutional Bill of Rights, one being no trust clause; assets are owned by the local congregations; clerical standards; measures to prevent increasing bureaucratization, right to affiliate statutes, in other words, easy to leave if things don't work out. I really don't know, but there are lessons to be learned here.

Didn't you renounce your ordination in the UMC and leave? Don't you think it concerning that you are so obsessed with the UMC? Don't you have your own church to be concerned about, or do you just relish having something/someone to criticize?

@plainspokenpod

Ай бұрын

Do you have the same critique of the hundreds of other voices on the Internet who are appalled at the behavior of the UMC? Very few of them are from within. I have an informed perspective on the UMC that has helped a lot of folks get clear about how they want to navigate these things. I care about those people, so I am aiming to help them. But I produce a lot of comment on the GMC, as well. I disagree fundamentally with the premise that one should only speak to things that they are committed to. We learn from watching others, adopting the good things we see, spurning the bad things. These are basic realities of life. If you can't handle folks talking about you, don't get on the Internet. If the best way the UMC can defend itself is to attack people who talk about them, well, that says more about you than it does about me.

“Wrap that up in a bow and smoke it”? If Jesus was rolling up joints and smokin them sounds like you would be his kind of gay grandma. But instead he and the apostles said to run from your wicked ways and sin no more. Repenting of your sin and leaving your homosexual lifestyle is akin to a porn addict quoting porn for good or a sociopath avoiding the temptation to not care if others are hurt- in various ways those other examples at either people acting in a manner in which we can argue they were born or in accordance with how God created them (I.e. an addictive personality). Carry your cross and sun no more!!! It’s a straight and narrow path.

look for Conservative Congregational Christian Conference churches (4 C's) . I found one and like it.

I'm not even a Christian, and that conference was far too explicitly political. It looked more akin to a democratic socialists of america convention

@methodministries

Ай бұрын

Why aren’t you a Christian?

@AndrewRayGorman

Ай бұрын

@@methodministries I was not raised as one explicitly, and I can only accept something after finding proof of it. I have a lot of respect for Christianity and what it has done for the world - but that aside, I have to find proof of something to accept it as a belief. Lately I am exploring the differences between Christian denominations and I highly respect adherence to beliefs as opposed to wishy washy believe everything and anything (like Unitarian Universalists). My great great great grandfather was a methodist preacher, so I am looking into methodist beliefs especially as a sort of "returning to my family roots"

@methodministries

Ай бұрын

​@@AndrewRayGorman Thanks for the reply! I'd love for you to keep examining and searching the Scriptures. As we look at the world right now, it becomes clear that there is a battle of good vs. evil, and Jesus is the answer to man's problem (sin), Romans 1 is a great chapter that explains what is going on with our world. Christ is King and I pray you'll come to Him for forgiveness of your sins and the new life He offers you!

That intro from the liberal was funny at the same time sad and annoying. :-(

Black Lives Matter. I have a global Wesleyan radio show aired globally.

So, to use your words, if you’re not “disagreeable”, then you don’t have much to offer? 😂😂😂 I think the UMC just figured out the gospel! Love won. Sorry about that, fellas. So relieved that the UMC can get on with doing what Jesus asked us to do. Feeding the poor, taking care of the widow and the orphans. So glad the gay-hating is no longer on UMC agenda.

@User_Happy35

Ай бұрын

Sin will never amount to love. All that vote did was hasten the destruction of the UMC and may have destined more people to hell. .

I'm 63 years old gentleman and y'all are so on the wrong side of what Jesus was all about jeez. It's so superficial what good is it if you gain the whole world only to lose your soul. We're not a liberal agenda I was born gay these are gay people you all stigmatized for the last hundred years and you know y'all need to make peace with that we didn't kick y'all out people found the ability to love their children unconditionally wake up gentlemen You've got a hard heart. I'm praying for you here in Texas I'm a grandma Lord and I was born gay and I'm a Christian wrapped that up in a bow and smoke it. 🙏😇🏳️‍🌈

@lukeony017

2 ай бұрын

“Wrap that up in a bow and smoke it”? If Jesus was rolling up joints and smokin them sounds like you would be his kind of gay grandma. But instead he and the apostles said to run from your wicked ways and sin no more. Repenting of your sin and leaving your homosexual lifestyle is akin to a porn addict quoting porn for good or a sociopath avoiding the temptation to not care if others are hurt- in various ways those other examples at either people acting in a manner in which we can argue they were born or in accordance with how God created them (I.e. an addictive personality). Carry your cross and sun no more!!! It’s a straight and narrow path.

@JamesEastep-rj7id

Ай бұрын

The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God. You either believe Holy Scripture or you don't. Don't call yourself a Christian if you place your own feelings and desires ahead of what God has ordained. It is perfectly okay, however, for you to call yourself a "United Methodist."

@DiscipleDojo