Zuni puebloan here we got a horned serpent deity and our oral history says that when our ancestors got 2 eggs the group with the macaw in it went south n the group with the raven stayed back where we reside today so the T door ppl are the one that went south . When they would come up to trade those Tdoor houses would be the place they would stay in to my understanding .

@marsmcclung9135

2 жыл бұрын

Where did the macaw people go after Paquimé?

I was surprised that t door/portals in South America were not mentioned. Amaru Meru in Peru for example, and the t shapes at Puma Punku in Bolivia.

@BehindtheTrowel

4 жыл бұрын

There are so many examples of the 't door'

Trek Planner sent me!

When I first saw the "T" doors I immediately thought of the Thunderbird design/motif that the Aztecs created. Is it possible that the "T" doors are representations of the Thunderbird? Also, if the doors are used in religious ceremonies where the people are dressed in the elaborate Thunderbird costume, wouldn't this door design make it easier and more dramatic for them to exit out into the courtyard for the ceremonial dances? I also think it is telling that some of the cliff dwellings in the Sierra Madres had a serpent above the T-Doors - There is a connection between the Thunderbird and the Serpent in native beliefs - that the Thunderbird controls the heavens (rain and thunder) and the Serpent controls the underworld - and they have their opposite spiritual roles that connect them in this manner. I have read where it is believed that the exterior walls at Chaco were covered in plaster - Were they also painted, and if they were painted, is it plausible that they were painted around the T-doors with the Thunderbird design?

@TheSSoSS

7 ай бұрын

I was just musing, what if the mega T doors were for a ritual purpose, such as..having their scarlet macaws fly into the enclosures! Thunder Bird indeed!

@patrickbass3542

22 күн бұрын

...or to accommodate an ornate "head dress"?

Wondering if the “T” could be a metaphoric door for a bird to enter and leave. Just spitballing. Terrific talk.

What a great presentation. Thank you!

was just reading about the hopi migrations.. the t doors.. the cliff dwellings.. i LOVE this stuff thanks for sharing. lots of great info.. i live with my family off the grid on Chevelon Canyon NE AZ.. utmost love and respect to you all!

@ShelleeGraham

3 жыл бұрын

Chevelon Canyon in northeast Arizona is fantastic! What a beautiful and prehistoric area. Anyone interested in the Ancestral Puebloan cultures need to visit Rock Art Ranch. That is one amazing place! Cheers from Old Hwy 66 in Oklahoma.

A delightful and most informative talk. Thank you, greatly. Listening from the UK close to Stonehenge

Another interesting video. I look forward to the next one.

48:15 that's exactly what I was wondering about, thank you for this video!

EXCELLENT PODCAST! BRAVO!

The Aztec symbol for house is shaped like a T door, so it's plausible that a T door was most likely stating that the enclosed space is meant for habitation and not for storage.

Totally cool and interesting never knew these doors were so many of these types of doors!

Brilliant analysis

Chaco is really a piece of architectural and engineering genius. The pyramids of the Aztec is amazing as well as walls of Machu pichu in Peru, but chaco is truly unique.

That Maasaw outfit is comical and terrifying at the same time! Love it 39:30

Isn't this door design simply common sense? A person fits through the opening and it is no larger than necessary - a reasonable requirement if it gets cold out.

@JamesMichael333

5 ай бұрын

Oh. Really? So the Mega T doors were for Giants?

Just on a practical basis, thinking like a mom (+ a builder's wife) - maybe the T door allowed adults carrying babies and toddlers, either on their backs or in arms, to easily enter the living spaces without banging the kids against the doorway. I also like the other commenter who observed they would allow for convenient sitting spots. Why does the T have to mean something? It could've started from one builder's wife who said, "you know what would be helpful?" And then it caught on with some of them.

@vestfoldify

2 жыл бұрын

makes no sense because in that case they would have cleared the whole opening

@JamesMichael333

5 ай бұрын

Definitely not for numerous reasons.

Not sure, but I may have met you when I was a student in '91/'92...maybe talking to us about Chaco Canyon, & I remember talk about the T doors, their mystery--which stuck with me. I'm no expert, but just in my college/amateur studies of ancient civilizations, I've noticed noticed very similar T shapes in giant stone mogoliths/gateways/doors to ancient homes in ancient England, France, New England, SE Turkey, Sumeria, Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, & Egypt. Only difference is that the T isn't a cutout shape, but rather it's made of enormous, ton+ rectangles of stone--usually containing quart/granite or sandstone--thought to be important for "magic"/energy/transcendence/crossing "the veil", etc. Super interesting regarding the timline of T doors u shared; @ it's height in 16th century was an Incan settlement (very intelligent "urban planning") near Lake Titicaca, Peru has a T door with a small round hole in the center/chest area *that appears to go nowhere*! The carving is 6'6" tall. Additionally, the horn & serpent go back to ancient Sumeria & outward...or maybe it started in Egypt (cow horns & serpent imagery, associated with gods). Ice-age cave paintings (in N Italy) show a man/god with antlers. Same in Norse & Celtic artifacts. In Sumeria & elsewhere, the horned snake represented water, wisdom, birth of creation, life. I think it all starts with the myth of Sophia (& maybe Enke) @ the dawn of all existence--divine spark @ "point of origin/absolute zero) splitting into duality in order to have them "conceive" life & all existence, spirit/energy & material. Lastly, your talking about the grand, public displays of grain silos in Mexico got me thinkingt's about 2 ancient grains found in SE Turkey (Gobekli Tepe). After thorough testing, scientists think they are the 2 most ancient, original grains that humans seemed to have since altered. They were dated back to 10, 500 yrs ago! So all these things seem to have been very important to humanity, starting before the Ice Age! I do think, as with many myths, that it could point to some important discoveries about the start of our universe & how we are fractals of what happened, what it was all about...& continues to be & always will. My personal, very amateur belief is that it started with something that could be expressed mathematically as a qubit, absolute zero, & the geometric, ultimate point of origin. I so VERY much enjoyed this webinar, thank you!! P.S. Gaia streaming channel's "Ancient Civilizations" ties a lot of what I always thought about & a lot of the things you talk about here!

@julieanntregeagle2594

Жыл бұрын

I also was thinking of Gobekli Tepe and the “T” shaped megaliths there. Also the serpent figure symbolizing Enki and water in the Sumerian tablets, repeating itself throughout history.

@julieanntregeagle2594

Жыл бұрын

Couldn’t have expressed myself better, thank you, Carinne. Gaia has many related lectures that offer food for thought on this very subject and possible reasons for the T-shaped doors. Thank you, Steve Lekson, for your years of study and thoughtful discussion.

I wonder T Doors served as a place for people to sit and relax.

Or... It’s a multifunctional practical design feature, which also held social, historical and/or spiritual meaning. It’s an opening with seats. By closing off the narrow bottom section the T shape serves as a window, when fully open it‘s a door which securely holds a ladder in place, allowing backpacks and pole mounted, shoulder carried balanced baskets, buckets and jars to be easily handed off during construction and for future ease of use for resupplying the structure without traversing a crowded interior. Also creates a practical solution for additional ventilation and in cliff dwellings the ability of lowering materials to all parts of the structure from above more effectively and safely. For defense it provides the perfect cross section of viewing and launching projectiles onto attacking forces, while also being an access and/or escape route, using rope ladders attached to a pole. Large exterior and interior T-Doors can provide seating and shade for guards, while constricting entrance. 🤷‍♂️ 👣🕊👽

the T is the mayan glyph for wind. like window like an open space.

@JamesMichael333

5 ай бұрын

The T was not to indicate it was a window if you watched this whole video

Here in the UK we have Tea Rooms, doors not so much.

Doors keep enemies out who are taller?

I've seen so many doors that used to be T shaped but the lower part is filled in, turning it into a rectangle. Is there any known or speculated reason for this?

Megalithic T-structures are found in a huge circle at Gobekli Tepe in Anatolia, T-structures are also found in Peru, Egypt and Israel. Ovens in the shape of a T portray some female entity/Goddess in the Balkans. The solid T's almost always have a dot in the upper middle of the “T”. It has been hypothesized to represent a stylized birth canal, with the growing embryo/seed at the top.

Enjoyed the lecture and photos of the sites especially. Meso America Serpentine symbols could include the Serpent Mound in Ohio.

@BehindtheTrowel

4 жыл бұрын

I remember learning about the Serpent Mound in Ohio when I was an undergrad. Its amazing to see different civilisations fascination with serpents.

@monus782

4 жыл бұрын

@@BehindtheTrowel considering that the later conquistadors had a more negative view of serpents because of Christianity it is something interesting to consider, perhaps it may be because snakes can be found in a very wide area of the world across continents.

Enigma ulteriore la presenza di porte a T in Italia.

From a bio mechanical stand point, think of approaching the T door with a wide load on your back. In order to balance and distribute the weight on your body you have been walking and standing with a slightly wider stance than if you were not carrying a load. In order to pass through the t-door you must narrow your stride, bringing your knees close together and align your steps almost directly one in front of the other. This is a destabilizing action requiring you to gather your awareness of your center of gravity into the core of your body in sudden contrast to the wider stance you have had during transport on your journey. In other words, the T door would not make your entrance with a burden easier, but more difficult.

@TheGravitywerks

9 ай бұрын

Great comment...I was wondering if it allowed animals access or rooms for people that were assigned to be sacrificed/(later eaten) as to inhibit their their escaping en masse (they would have to try one at a time making it easier to guard). Chaco means "place of crying" (according to Native Americans) and evidence of cannibalism has been found.

A T shape for a practical purpose (carrying loads in baskets) would come to indicate a place with storage. A place with storage implies wealth and status, (especially if you are hungry). As a symbol of staus/wealth it follows that it can become exagerated to imply great wealth (big houses) or a beneficient god that brings food. But I'm no expert, just an interested bloke. Nice lecture thanks :)

Is the "T" A SLOT for the pole, with the stairs cut into it, or is the "T" representative for Tatonka ?

I wonder if the shape provides greater air flow. It may have originated as less of a meaningful structure and more as a way to provide cooling breezes throughout the interior. They clearly took on a meaning of status with the impressive size of the larger T-Doors, but even those may have been to allow greater airflow into larger structures where it would diffuse through main halls, and rooms.

They are also found in Peru, the Chachapoyas built very similar cliff dwellings with T shaped doors. Could be a connection. It would seem to me that the hole above the T doors could be to continue filling the granary above the door level perhaps. This short video is interesting kzread.info/dash/bejne/qa1qlLuIdtOtZ7g.html

Treck planner brought me here!

My opinion T Shaped doors were first used as practice advantage. After all the purpose of adooris to "block out" .. the LESS surface area they need to block out the better! .. the bottom 2 and half feet of door space is normally only going t have 2 LEGS in it. Up higher you maybe carrying a basket of something, so more room is needed .. On the farm where I grew up my mom had a saying "Do not come in empty handed!" .. If nothing else there is always frewood to carriny in! :) .. I can easily imagine moms of the ancient Southwest had similar saying! :)

Let kids and small dogs run free.

Does a 'T' door add anything to structural integrity helping to stabilize the construction?

@ 45:57 they look like seats, you can sit at the entrance and have a chit chat

@JamesMichael333

5 ай бұрын

Thats not what they were

they are practical sitting warnth view and security mostly air and. sun nore of it. maybe but the small carvings are praiseing the skies.

Are there kivas at paquime?

If the T-doors represent a serpent's head, perhaps the hole above them represents an egg, as it does at serpent mound. The "egg", BTW, represents the island of Aztlan, as this was its shape.

It seems if the “T-door” concept was pervasive is it found in association with motifs on pottery or weavings or sacrificial objects?

Their birds could sit on the T door ledges and greet visitors.

You mentioned rock art of the four corners, some petroglyph, pottery or other ancient art shows figures with their arms extended out to the side with hands up in the air about level with the tops of their heads. These have been interperted as showing how the people position themselves as they prayed. Maybe they assumed this position as they prayed, walking inside of their stone structures. Or like the Christian cross, it is a symbol of their religion or deity.

T shape is from the SW,we don’t know why, there seem in Mexico. It took an hour to say this

One thought is those are places to sit at the door. A place for guards to rest. Or when people visit at the door.

@babaloo42

10 ай бұрын

Good place for a bird to sit.

What if the tea door just describes what's inside and it's not the people there but the what's being stored or the time of year that it's supposed to be occupied or something like that because a lot of that building is considered at least as far as I know astrological kind of worship as well as agricultural worship combined. My thinking is that it's possible that it it's not defining the people inside that room or occupancy but the time of year to go in and or the type of things inside the room. I think that the shapes are astrological. That each room was used at a different season time of year and the cup was probably used for specific kind of ceremony for a period of within a year when the moon was in a certain place or when the sun was in a certain place but I think it's astrological and the shape of chuckle canyon isn't a basic shape of Chaco canyon t-shaped? It's the equinox. But it's the entire year and you know the moon cycle or something you know the size of the tea could indicate a full moon and a narrow tea could indicate a new moon? It could be the other way around also. I wonder if you sat in each room at the specific points of the year what the light looks like coming into the room. The more and more I hear about Chaco canyon in Pueblo Bonita the more I think of them as the source for the astrological kind of calculations that they mean to build the the temples aspect temples and whatnot they needed to have very precise calculations where the sun would be and where the moon would be to create the effects that they were making and basically they convince their people to follow them based on kind of a feeling of magic because the leaders knew when the seasons would change and do certain things and life would do certain things in relation to the buildings and it would look like the serpent God... Yeah the more and more I hear about chaco canyon the more I think it's an observatory. But more than an observatory I think it's also probably kind of a place to train "priests" kind of like a monastery. Okay I'm going to put a very bold amateur theory (I only have a ba in anthropology so I'm an amateur). Okay my armchair theory is that the Aztecs went to the American southwest and enslaved the pueblos there to help them with the Aztec priestly class and honing of their knowledge of grain and agriculture and their worship along those lines. There's my novice archaeological theory that I have just vomited. Sorry I couldn't help it. 🤮 I think if it were possible the best way to study chaco canyon in Mesa Verde and all that kind of stuff is to have like an ethnographic kind of styled archaeological study that goes for an entire year with cameras in each room to view the light coming in and studying the astrological kind of phenomena that happened in relation to the architecture. I'm sure that you know Fallen studies were done and all kinds of studies were done on the residues on the walls and what not to see it was a granary or you know what was left behind there scientifically lab analyzed but I think the light is one of the most important things of these buildings. I think if we find a pattern with the light and the shape of the key doors then you got a potential answer as to what these shapes mean.

Thankyou Dr. Steve. First a toast with my blue cup, the large one, and next smaller with granola mixed in, daily for decades. I surmise that the shape resembles a trowel, perhaps the version of free masons of these ppl. Advertising professional services. Obviously building, and the knowledge was a big deal. Someone spoke of roving chaco goon squads, was supplying crews to construct your home, for a mortgage price, binding the occupants for labor or goods a factor.? Peace brother, and thanks again

But the " T" shape door or window is found all around the world in antiquity.

Probably a porch frame or curtains.

You had to have that shape for the elaborate head and shoulder dress. What is so hard to understand about this.

If your a Chief, you have a very big headdress full of feathers, how are you going to get thru the door it is not shaped like a T

Lekson describes some "T" doors as great big and big w/o saying just exactly how big. How about some actual dimensions?

When enemies came to rade and steal, the people would Be able to shoot arrows with more room to move left or right. Raid. Not rade.

If you wanted to enter or exit with a bow or atlatl, this would be a great design. It doesn't weaken the structure as much as a huge door. Easier to block off with two pieces and allows you to fire over the top. These ex spurts talk too much.

A Navaho Elder on you tube says Chaco was not a good place. It was known as a place of tears. Many Dene people were enslaved and made to build these places. When they left this place, they smashed the pottery, etc.

Mountain.Cloud.Rain.

@hisatsinommonistasih6052

2 жыл бұрын

Haircut,Same symbol.

Mushrooms.

The T Door form is not organic. Nor does it imbue proportions native to human visual preference. From a Building Science perspective, they seem practical for human comfort. I have seen these people were skilled in controlling air movement within dwellings. So I think of them as equivalent to Dutch Doors.

How about T-doors offer nothing more than a convenient place to sit?

They are in Peru also. Look at Kachinas. Think about it. "Those from above."

Golden Rule. Teachings by The Holy People for tribes of the SW : Never COVER THE/A DOOR/DOORWAY. There is also the symbolism of the bottom of the "Tau" represents the underworld. I'd go with the Holy Peoples Teaching to never cover the door. You can hang a woven blanket, but the opening will remain at the bottom, allowing for fresh air in and out. Always enter from a clockwise direction, exiting to your right to complete the circle. Also the people do not say they create something. The 5 fingered earth being can not create. Only the one TRUE Creator can. The people MAKE. They make kiva's, make sweat lodges etc...Example: We can make more humans, but we can not create one out of this air. They do not believe in something from nothing except by the creator of all things.

do you see the charred walls, possibly plasma discharge storm ? Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future

I know it's dumb but look at how similar those 2 cloud formations are @24:00