I'm a classical liberal/libertarian. I find it hard to be pragmatic when I'm just trying to get the government to leave me alone while everyone else is trying to have the government control my life. To me paying a third of my income in taxes is extremely intrusive, telling me what substances I can/can't personally use is intrusive, requiring me to pay for certain services is intrusive, restricting what deals I can make with other free individuals is intrusive, etc.

@jacobdammarell2783

4 жыл бұрын

100%

@Setherrrrrrrr

4 жыл бұрын

based

@jayd7725

3 жыл бұрын

Where i live i have to pay more in property tax if i build a deck in my back yard lol

@depurodinerohomie5006

3 жыл бұрын

Then go back to the jungle you fool.

@robinthestate6548

3 жыл бұрын

@@depurodinerohomie5006 that is also owned by Goverments you fool.

I am a classical liberal and quite moderate, but I call myself a libertarian because, in the United States, nobody will know what I am talking about if I call myself a classical liberal.

@muzammilusmani1820

Жыл бұрын

Classical Liberalism is very similar to American Conservatism. Libertarian Conservatism are classical liberals who embrace social conservatism.

@thepv8475

9 ай бұрын

​@@muzammilusmani1820 I do not think. Many conservatives will be against gay marriage and drug freeing. Most classical liberals are in favor of both, as it is individual freedom, an inalienable right. As a classical liberal, I can say that I am closer to conservatism and I hate woke culture.

@hkmorhsi

2 ай бұрын

Exactly, I am politically homeless and unidentifiable. I indentify with both

As a Singaporean, I have to cringe every time people point to our country for policies and economics. If you're an expat, sure of course, it's a good place. But if you were born and raised here without a silver spoon, your views might be different. The freedom that Americans take for granted also flies out the window if you are citizen here.

@ImVicBlanco

5 жыл бұрын

Could you please explain what freedoms are restrained there?

@pajfarfar

4 жыл бұрын

Summing up: Singapore is a great country to live, and roughly a "free society", if your goal is a career as an investment banker, with a "conventional" safe marriage, hard work and maybe a little alcohol on the side. If you're an independent thinker and critic, in the sense of an author of lights and a slack mouth, a politician with new ideas and the courage of express them, or any kind of activist, the system will engage and crush you. It's by no standards a liberal democracy.

@rohanmagee6781

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah Singapore was proper fascist in the 1970's my parents tell me

@sk8_bort

3 жыл бұрын

It's usually used as a example of good economics. Personal freedom is definitely one of the biggest weaknesses of your contry.

Forced savings accounts sound fiscally responsible, but also somewhat illiberal (literally forcing people to save money, even if they don't want to). It's pretty clear that maximizing freedom also allows for people to get into situations of great suffering and loss at the same time...it's not an easy balance, and that's why welfarism has quietly grown in such a wealthy society.

An Anarchist is for Anarchy, a Libertarian is for Liberty. its the Liberals that dragged their term through the mud. Libertarians have no problem with government, it simply isn't always our first go-to solution for everything. The Big Government Liberal and Conservatives will grow government until it gets crushed under its own weight. Us Libertarians are that little voice in the background that warns of disaster you refuse to heed.

@KnifiNtheHeart

7 жыл бұрын

H. Guderian libertarians are anarchists true liberty is anarchy

@KriegsMeister27

7 жыл бұрын

KnifiNtheHeart No, Liberty is about individuals freedom, but is limited so as to avoid one individual's freedom infringing on the liberty of another individual. Anarchy is no hold's barred, anything goes, fuck everyone else but me.

@KnifiNtheHeart

7 жыл бұрын

KriegsMeister27 I see the state as an infringement on liberty period I think privatizing every single government institution would function better and maximize liberty, have you ever read rothbard?

@quintessenceSL

7 жыл бұрын

Something I had read (but forget the attribution) is "the purpose of government is to become obsolete" which I think nails the worldview of libertarians cum anarchists. It is trying minimize the need for government and hopefully move towards anarchy, but with other structures in place so there isn't a power vacuum. Libertarians unwittingly or not are moving towards anarchy, otherwise it just becomes kvetching as to what roles government should take, which is as varied and all-encompassing as the different flavors of libertarianism. Even further, most people live in a state of anarchy inasmuch as the government doesn't direct their every action, and they are just as free to plant flowers as kill someone, and government can do very little to prevent such actions.

@Scott-xb1ku

7 жыл бұрын

+KnifiNtheHeart That's bullshit. You're not taking market flaws into account. If you privatize a government program with very small limited economies of scale it'll function as a monopoly where prices will be gouged and you have less money in the end. Ie Utilities, telecommunication, and health insurance. Most of the time when a service is privatized you just end up paying more. Rothbard was an economic illiterate whose ideas never developed a 1st world country. Your ideas will just dehumanize and harm the non-wealthy.

this guys voice is so nice

@brandondaniels9471

4 жыл бұрын

_"I have been expecting you... ... MR. BOND!!!"_

Love your Classical Liberal/Libertarian stuff Dave!

@owlblocksdavid4955

6 жыл бұрын

Funny thing is, I've called myself a conservative, liberal, classical liberal, libertarian conservative, Republitarian, conservatarian, libertarian Republican, and small government conservative xD it's more about ideas than labels anyway.

@fede930

4 жыл бұрын

Classical liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism

@christopheranderson8875

4 жыл бұрын

Fede Stedile - It’s more of a moderate-conservative

@Setherrrrrrrr

4 жыл бұрын

@Hussein not really

@sirsteam181

3 жыл бұрын

@Hussein More of the other way around in the Case of American Conservatism

A very refreshing talk. Great points.

@InfiniteFlash

7 жыл бұрын

WolfBlaz the voice itself is nice too

@dr.wazihahmad8274

4 жыл бұрын

But 400K people are dead!!

I've noticed that most people who call themselves libertarian are really just Republicans who like to smoke weed.

@ryleighs9575

7 жыл бұрын

The influx of new "libertarians" is probably related to the somewhat recent sullying of the term "liberal"; when you ask about their actual views, 90% of the time they describe classical liberal principals.

@ExtractEngineer

7 жыл бұрын

So, as someone who has been a libertarian for a LONG time, I can say.... you're not wrong, but you're not right either. We're more like Republicans who really, REALLY care about personal social and economic freedom. It's our highest political value. Republicans value the Republic, and a vaguely conservative position. Democrats are into Democracy, Egalitarianism and Progressivism. Libertarian are really into Liberty. Sure, we try out drugs some times. You should too. I recommend Psilocybin to everyone I meet, it's excellent for stress and anxiety. *shrug* We're not mad that you don't get us! :)

@dylan8670

7 жыл бұрын

Or Democrats who have always valued social tolerance, but who have to admit honestly that the government is not effectively helping the people they espouse to want to help...and even if it was, we just can't pay for all this.

@owlblocksdavid4955

6 жыл бұрын

Classical liberalism is based on the ideas of John Locke, Adam Smith, etc. Many (sadly not all) Republicans and Libertarians (and I'm sure some Democrats, although fewer) fall into this category.

@thatguy22441

6 жыл бұрын

I know about psilocybin and THC. I've used both to keep my PTSD under control. Regarding the drug laws, any conservative can agree that the Drug War has been an expensive failure. The reasons for ending it are not purely abstract; it has been an assault on the Constitution and very expensive.

For my own political journey, this is a remarkably productive discussion. Thanks and keep up the good work Dave.

This interview with Steve Davis is great. Packed with info. It's also an interview that's most likely to change my mind on a few issues.

Great. Have someone from Singapore on the show to talk about their system and/or their economy.

@RedSnapper34

7 жыл бұрын

The Singaporean system sounds really good but I just don't see our politicians being able to keep their hands out of the cookie jar. It would start with one little IOU here and one IOU there and soon enough there'd be nothing but a couple of coppers at the bottom and the rest IOUs.

@tohopes

7 жыл бұрын

Robert B Yeah that's a valid point, but at this point I'm more interested in just hearing from people with different (working) systems than I am in deciding whether to adopt the way they do things.

@Ajax-wo3gt

7 жыл бұрын

Singapore has no freedom of speech. Dave's had Michelle Chen on and she's talked about it.

@errorcode99

7 жыл бұрын

I'm in singapore right now, came here yesterday for the first time! I would definitely live here.

@MrBandholm

7 жыл бұрын

Problem with Singapore (and Switzerland) as a model, is that it is a very closed system... If you are well educated, financial sound, and with a steady income, it is an awesome place. If however you aren't, it can be a brutal system to live in. The critic of Bernie Sanders, with his reference to Scandinavia, was that the US weren't as homogenes a society... The same critic can be said about a stat like Singapore, perhaps with even greater force. It can certainly be claimed that Singapore has some good setups, that are worth looking into (just like Scandinavia)... The real test however would be to think of, how would one implement them.

Rubin, like your show, but when you say that "legalizing heroin" is a frivolous idea, I would say the drug war is probably on par with the holocaust in it's level of human rights violations. Although plenty of people have died thanks to the war on drugs, what has happened to most people caught up in the American justice system for a victim-less crimes could arguably be worse than death. They become unemployable at a young age and it becomes very difficult, if not impossible for them to ever participate in the legitimate economy again. So, taking an innocent life or ruining an innocent life....which is worse? You would not have heard someone in Germany in the 1940's saying, "Legalize Jews? How about if we are just a little less cruel to them?"

@haleygray6443

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention, bringing up something that should not be a law only after the public is more alright with that idea is disingenuous.

Wowza!!! Dave and the Rubin report folks, thank you for introducing me to Steve Davies!

It's a relieve listening to someone with an articulated British accent talk sociopolitical issues without having to end on a punch line about BBC's

If you gathered up all politics from liberals, conservatives and libertarians throughout history, you would possibly see that liberals (now the regressives), have wanted the government taking control of the social and economic sides of countries. Conservatives have, in the past, but not as much current day, wanted the government out economically and in socially, like with gay marriage and taxes. And libertarians wanted the government out in both ways.

@prodigalson6166

3 жыл бұрын

What we call liberal today is not liberal. Just like the EU Liberals are not real liberals. You can't move away from natural law nomocracy and be a liberal. You cannot support the okie doke that democracy is anything but fascism and be a true liberal. As a true classical liberal, I find Libertarians to be way to anarchist. And going by the pre 1947 political Spectrum, as per D'Souza, conservatives are just too left-wing for my taste. The conservatives trying to turn everyone into the Beaver Cleaver family and the progressive tries to turn everyone into The Adams Family

@sirsteam181

3 жыл бұрын

@@prodigalson6166 "You cannot support the okie doke that democracy is anything but fascism and be a true liberal." Is that a No true Scots man I hear?

@prodigalson6166

3 жыл бұрын

@@sirsteam181 Could be. I'm Mestizo American, with Highlander ancestors, Clan MacLeod, Clan Macpherson and Clan MacDonald.😂

@sirsteam181

3 жыл бұрын

@@prodigalson6166 Oh No!

This is a very interesting video. Thank you Dave and Steve for sharing your conversation!

One of the most reasonable interviews I've ever heard on this show. If more interviews are done like this on the show, I'd watch this channel more.

Great conversation, thanks for this!

Libertarianism: The right way to respect everybody´s freedom.

what is allepo?

@stardreamer8996

7 жыл бұрын

A person with leprosy

@broadwayat

7 жыл бұрын

"are you serious?"

@skarlock5257

7 жыл бұрын

It's a brand of dog food.

@level12fighter

7 жыл бұрын

Brian Maleska you hit the nail on the head thank you

@animegamingdude

7 жыл бұрын

Syrians wish Hillary Clinton didn't know.

Liberal, conservative it's all labels. People should start arguing in individual stances on major matters and constitution, rather than screaming how depraved a party is. This greatly dilutes the meaning of these labels, and does not push constructive discussion.

@88fibonaccisequence

5 жыл бұрын

+maomaoliang Only a commie, fascist, conserva-libtard, anarcho-syndicalist, Democratic-Republican, Whig, Tory, Bull-Moose, reactionary, libertarian, socialist, femtard, MRA, pro-life, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, Russian bot, neo-Nazi, Koch brothers shill, progressive, regressive, racist, misogynist, misandrist, egalitarian, Trump supporting, SJW, alt-right Bernie Bro would say something so stupid. If that's the way you want to live, why don't you move to North Korea, Somalia, Venezuela, Nazi Germany, The USSR, medieval Europe, Saudi Arabia? Don't be such a transphobic bigot.

Very impressed with Davies. Will definitely be looking for more of his work.

Loved this interview. Very interesting points made.

here in Brazil libertarian means anarcho-capitalist

Watching this explanation should be a prerequisite for engaging in political discourse.

It is refreshing to hear a sensible voice on this channel again.

@yaakovoppenheim5454

7 жыл бұрын

Pletzmutz Which guests did you find to be irrational? I'm not being hostile, I'm genuinely interested

@clarencejones8180

7 жыл бұрын

I think its good to see a non Alt-Right person on here once in a while

The problem is that government tends to crack down on alternatives

such a great episode

I love Singapore's savings system.

Love the painting on the wall; brilliant.

Singapore is one of the best examples of a successful Georgist society, which leads to affordable housing, more jobs, more business and less poverty and overall better society. Georgism is classical liberalism and geolibertarian. It has its roots in Adam Smith, where land rents are a source of wealth. The land value gains are created by the economic activity of people around the land (not by the person who sits idley on the land but takes the gains). For the remedy read Henry George.

Libertarians and Classical Liberals: Jesus Christ, we really should not be fighting. Our fundamental worldviews are the same. We want the same thing: individual liberty. The world needs us. Let's put our heads together.

vast majority of self-described Libertarians in the US are not anarchists small government libertarians classical liberal used to be used by bow tie Libertarians to identify particular intellectual roots of libertarianism it is being increasingly used by lifelong liberals who are just now coming to libertarianism there is too much cognitive dissonance in calling themselves Libertarians after calling Libertarians racists all their lives, so they needed a new term

@gagegarlitz1962

4 жыл бұрын

@@robertfranks8047 I'm Guessing the fact that libertarians are generally right wing and, many of them think all right wingers are racist even though it's usually only the reactionary and very authoritarian right who fit that bill.

Great guest great interview !

I’ll never understand why people want to pigeonhole themselves with a label. The good ideas discussed in this video are good ideas because they are good ideas, not because the gentlemen sticks a “libertarian” label on them. He even spelled out the problem with labels at the beginning of the video when he said some people behave against their better instincts to prove their purity/devotion to the libertarian label. In other words, the label corrupts their thinking. Exactly! This is the case with all political labels, and it goes beyond thought corruption within the ranks; it also corrupts one’s thinking about people and groups who pigeonhole themselves with a different and equally ineffective political label. Labels are the doors that open to echo chambers. And you can’t escape until you “Lose the labels”TM . “The more one uses labels, the less one is able to think critically”™. Instead of spending so much time and effort labeling and categorizing people and movements and ideologies and issues, just say what you think about the merits. Labels add no value to the discussion. You can convey any thought you want without using labels (except in discussions about labels, like the one Dave and the gentleman had in this video, which as far as I can tell made the libertarian label fuzzier and thus even less important than it was when they started the conversation). Each idea and each person stands on its own, and you should support it or reject it based only on merits, not on the associated labels. If you absolutely insist on labeling yourself, what’s wrong with “good-idea-ist”? Or better yet, to maintain intellectual independence/impartiality, name your movement or philosophy after yourself. I’m a member of the Pat Ponticel Party and I adhere to Pat Ponticelism (whose single precept is thumbs up for good ideas, thumbs down for bad ones). For many years, I called myself a liberal, and did so with great pride (only recently did I realize that pride, being the opposite of humility, is a very bad thing, and it’s the state of mind that underlies the political quagmire we face in the U.S. today). Once I rejected the silly liberal label and became unaffiliated on the voting rolls, I began to see ideas as neutral propositions, stripped of the attached labels. I stopped rejecting certain ideas out of hand because they came with a label I didn’t like. You will say I was just being close-minded. Exactly! Don’t kid yourself that you are any less close-minded than I was. You are in thrall to labels (and subject to their corruptive powers, on both the conscious and subconscious levels) way more than you are willing to admit. Guaranteed. If you want to escape that mindset, “Lose the Labels”TM. But if being intellectually/emotionally manipulated (by your own self as well as others) is your thing, by all means keep the label that you’ve pinned onto yourself and continue to bathe in the self-righteousness of your corresponding echo chamber, a den of narcissism in which everyone says to the other: “Don’t you love the look of this label on me?”

@tdr6283

7 жыл бұрын

You do realise that every word in your comment is a label, right? ;) Without labels we couldn't handle the enormous amount of information in our everyday lives. I do agree that we sometimes cling too tightly to them, though.

Judging from the comments it looks like there are a lot of classical liberals out there. There ought to be a classical liberal party.

I totally agree. Partitioning Syria and Iraq into Kurdish/Shia/Sunni states makes sense. The same should happen to Labour and Tories in the UK parliament because the electorate just isn't being adequately represented on party lines across the board. GOP and Dems also.

The SSN alternative sounds like a good idea and should be looked into, but i do not see the goverment giving up SSN as it is because now the fund can be raided, but in personnal accounts it could not be. Plus thid would diminsh the need for the nanny state by a little which the left is fighting hard to increase.

@UponGiantsShoulders

7 жыл бұрын

Exactly, the protectionist strategies of the authoritarian mindset has foreseen the attempt to create alternatives and enshrined their approach in law and worse in indoctrination via education.

@Scott-xb1ku

7 жыл бұрын

+Alex Gagnon That's retarded. The fee is obviously going to be placed in a fund that gains interest and has to be managed by somebody. And whoever is managing it is going to subject it to fees and expenses. So for all you know you could end up losing your social security. In Chile they privatized SSN and it ended up paying out only a fraction of what the previous system paid. Sorry but it's still best too pool the money and keep it out of the volatile hands of the market. We solve this problem by getting rid of the $150,000 cap on payroll taxes so upper income ppl pay a similar proportion of their income as everyone else.

Fantastic video!!! Especially on foreign policy as well as the Singapore pension system.

As a voice from the "left", I hope people are hearing this fully and grasping the balance of each issue that was brought up. He talked about limited government, but that an alternate system to supplant each function of the government must exist. The Singapore system allowed people to pay into their own estate, but it also supported the welfare of the poor. He talked about limiting foreign intervention, but also reducing the military industrial complex and the police state back home.

great one!

Brilliant stuff. I think he nails it on the head with regard to the two labels. And I'm going to look into that Singaporean savings system.

As a conservative I enjoy the Rubin Report 👍

Awesome video

Criminals kill people for money. Terrorists kill people for ideology. I would say that's a big difference.

If we accept the definitions within this video: Libertarian = Adam Kokesh (get Adam on your show), Classical Liberal = Thomas Jefferson/Ron Paul

@tdr6283

7 жыл бұрын

American liberal = Michael Moore.

11:15 "Which coercive action is going to most maximize liberty...?" A ludicrous question, is it not?

This was one of the best conversations I've seen on KZread ever. how I've never heard of Steve Davies until today shockes me.

I would like to know more about the Singapore system for sure. Its sounds like individual government insurance. My initial concern is if thats the case, who makes the determination on how its spent?

How does this not have more views.

You need a bong on your shelf Dave.

Is there an extended version of that intro music?

Singapore does healthcare correctly. Our system is insane.

Definitely, classical liberalism isn't so anti-government in the way that libertarians often are (even the supposedly non-ancap ones), but positive towards limited government that strongly protects property rights. I think even the libertarians who accept the existence of the state are quite angry about it and adopt minarchism as a standby position for anarcho-capitalism, whereas a classical liberal sees the state as protecting individual rights when the state is fulfilling its proper role, so its more like classical liberalism is antagonistic to a particular kind of interventionist state rather than states per se. Classical liberals want states to protect most things but not manage them.

I think this is the most intelligent thing I've ever heard spoken in any talk show.

Below are three links to the forum hosted by Tavis Smiley between third party candidates Gary Johnson and Jill Stein for his show on PBS. In the forum he took questions asked on Facebook and Twitter to which both Gary and Jill agreed that they would answer each question in 90 seconds. Part 1: www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/presidential-candidates-dr-jill-stein-gary-johnson-pt-1/ Part 2: www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/presidential-candidates-dr-jill-stein-gary-johnson-pt-2/ Part 3: www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/blogs/online-forum-dr-jill-stein-gov-gary-johnson/

There are several countries with weird shapes. A lot of this occurs because of ethnic groups, resources, geography, certain areas used buffer zones, etc.

@hazyhalfmoon

7 жыл бұрын

All of which make more sense than someone from across the world drawing the lines how they see fit while being almost entirely ignorant of local geopolitics

@soyoudonthaveananglehuh8513

7 жыл бұрын

B4TT3RY Amen! Just the lack of understanding of these things has caused war, when countries or regions were being split up, especially from the 1910's-1940's.

I define liberal as someone who wants to change or replace the current social economic condition, and conservative as someone who wants to preserve or return to a previous social economic condition.

I haven't ever heard anyone more eloquent than this guy

This is what people are talking about when they say "small-L" or "big-L" libertarianism. Most people are probably small-L "libertarians," and just don't realize it.

notice in the discussion on Singapore, that he states that first one needs a successful economy...

We have superannuation in australia, where your employer has to put a certain percentage of your income into your super which is invested through the the superannuation company, is this much different than America's 401k?

Most libertarians who are not of the anarchist persuasion call themselves minarchists and the anarchists refer to the,selves as an-caps and voluntaryists. Libertarianism has just as wide a variation in its ideology as conservatism, progressivism, and centrism.

Brilliant

"What would Bismarck do?" Oh my god- I love that he said that!!! Bismarck is one of my favourite politicians *of all time*

@tdr6283

7 жыл бұрын

You need to get out more.

Bright bloke is Steve - brave and correct to have him on the show.

Brilliant, refreshing, more classical liberals please Dave. Also, Thomas Sowell, to talk more on economics

Capitalists aren't Anarchists, period. In fact, it's impossible to oppose all hierarchies, assuming one supports the existence of human societies. This is why we need to have a SERIOUS discussion on why we collectively value notions such as anarchy, liberty, democracy, and many other philosophies, and even what the purpose of philosophy is.

Hmm I'm starting to transition from Liberal to Classical Liberal

@treboleekem499

4 жыл бұрын

now what are you

classical liberalism sounds really like me. even took some political leaning test that i lean right on the economy.

so glad I send un my $5 per month for this show

I'm not particularly purely Libertarian, but I think the point of Libertarian and (real) punk movements is to challenge authority regardless of whether it is right or wrong. To provide a check towards it to reveal if there is a problem or corruption anywhere there is. So that when there is a real problem, there won't be an uphill battle to bring down the power of that specific authority issue. So that if there ever is a case where government is supposed to be "minimal" it doesn't exponentially get out of control(like some would argue today). Much like many founding Freemasons took on the stance that there should be an active revolution, dismantling/rebuilding, or heavy scrutiny at the government regularly. America is a country founded on such rebellion, in many ways Libertarian draws its roots to the same Classical Liberals that advocate for America's base principles. They are fellow travelers with different methodology. Challenging driver's licences places a field where other unnecessary licences or costs can be cut down. And nowadays, some people easily can use it to LARP, or some elitist authority point, or as an excuse/veil for whatever nefarious purposes may be. Of course you should choose your battles, and allocate your resources where most effective, and actually take some cost-benefit analysis in any methodology.

Great discussion. Any AnCap or purist libertarian should know that the idea will only take shape with an evolution of society and not a revolution. We will never see the fruits of our labor but hopefully we lay the groundwork for our descendants to live in a free and prosperous society.

Great Question/discussion. Especially in light of Ukraine and current events. After once it's underway...what would Bismarck do? I keep reading daily my ideals are one road, but the world is on another? How do I navigate the two?

@timtebone1843

Жыл бұрын

you can accept that the gop borrowed 8.2 trillion in 4 years under trump and left a 1.4 trillion dollar annual deficit for joe to give tax cuts to billionaires. Unless you can't comprehend the difference between 8.2 trillion and 150 billion .... That's always an issue with the far right lol

How do you stop classical liberalism from degenerating into progressive liberalism that we have today? Seems to me that it had some good ideas and others that got us where we are today.

I like Singapore's CPF, however if you look into it further there are some limitations. I'm Australian and we have a similar system to Singapore but only for retirement. Compulsory retirement fund contributions by employees and employers however, again, there are serious limitations with a large portion of society still heavily reliant on government pensions

In the first part of this discussion Steve Davies was describing his lack of concern regarding cultural segregation, yet in the second part of the discussion he is proposing the division of countries down ethnic/religious lines. Surely what is true in Syria may also become true in the UK. The prolonged segregation of communities will lead to the eventual fracturing of society. We are not quite so far down that road, but the ultimate consequence of unrestrained mass immigration is a divided nation. Once divided, it is only a matter of time before whole regions are calling for independence. We have already seen a very real call for London to extricate itself from the UK, a move championed by the now mayor of London, Sadiq Khan. We have nothing like the Sunni/Shia divides in the UK, but such scenarios are made very probable when mass immigration and low integration continues for a prolonged period of time.

@frontsau2

7 жыл бұрын

I think this is him speaking pragmatically. Like with the welfare state he doesn't think changing the system without being able o replace it with an alternative will cause instability and chaos, which will hinder progress in the long run. With the middle east the trenches are too deep and peace can not come from within a scared and ethnically diverse population. To make those scars go away and make a cohabitation possible you first need to get rid of the social fires and get the basic human necessities for the people. That means let them rule themselves and not be ruled b a different group. Then you have a stable base to build upon and not burned ground. This is a problem of countries where ethnicities have been deeply divided suppressed and prosecuted. When majorities or big minorities are being disenfranchised, violence will be a valve of parts of that group. I don't see such a scenario happening anywhere in Europe and especially not in GB.

@pugsley141

7 жыл бұрын

When did Sadiq Khan call for London independence? I saw an interview where he brushed it aside as no more than a joke

@johnhuckley1843

7 жыл бұрын

I hope you are right, frontau2, but I'm afraid I don't share your optimism, especially if Brexit is halted by politically motivated judges.

@frontsau2

7 жыл бұрын

John Huckley I'm see a big divide in Europe too, but it takes a lot to get people on the streets and much much more to get them to fight each other.

One of your better guests. While I dont agree with everything he says, his presentation is logical and coherent. Quite enjoyable.

The System in Singapore sure sounds interesting, but to me it seems to have a massive economic risk: The health care fund you pay into all your life for it to be used mostly in your last year. So what if you have significant inflation? The money you paid in will be nearly worthless by the time your old. Also if the funds are high enough to cover high cost, but low probability health issues then a lot of money is lying around not being at your personal disposal. I guess these accounts are held by banks and used by them for investments but what if you wanted to buy a house or start your own business? The advantage of health insurance is that only some people will need medical treatment so everybody only has to pay a fraction of the cost that could potentially hit them if they get a serious condition. And the money is used for the current medical expenses, so inflation isn't an issue. So I guess I would have to read up further on the system in Singapore, but at least by Mr Davies' explanation it seems to have some issues...

You should have Bryan Caplan on to give his arguments for open borders. I believe he's associated with Learn Liberty or at least has been in the past.

@buybuydandavis

7 жыл бұрын

Chimfish nothing says bowtie libertarianism quite like support for importing millions of big government voters to destroy any possibility of libertarianism

@FPOAK

7 жыл бұрын

buybuydandavis Are you familiar with Caplan's argument against that position?

@buybuydandavis

7 жыл бұрын

He's got a billion papers on Open Borders. Do you have a particular paper and particular point in mind? I'd be happy to hear an argument because the Progressitarians at Reason have punked out and never give one. How will importing millions of big government voters make the US a more libertarian country?

This guy has good knowledge of middle east geopolitics but a poor understanding of Islamic theocracy and its somber implications.

"More pure" aka. Morally principled.

The problem is, people are "libertarian" only for what they want. I'm personally 100% against drugs I don't like them but I'm in favor of their legalization. Because I'm thinking I'm nobody to tell others how they should live their life's. And that is be a true libertarian

About libertarians who clearly do not understand politics: You cannot win political arguments using your morals as the entry point. People from an opposite side usually cannot understand your moral perspective. You have to be able to argue economically about the effects within a shared moral framework. Economics is a far better way to effect people than morals-first and virtue signaling for that matter. Advocating the decriminalization of drugs based on your moral beliefs is useless. You must understand the economic argument and dispell all morals that you don't share with your opponent. Find a common ground and common goals. Find out where you disagree in approach, Use facts.

So what's the difference between a minarchist and a classical liberal?

Anarchy would work if everyone would just do what an organized civilization with leadership does.

@kennethpryde966

7 жыл бұрын

LOL. Totally agree. If only. Anarchists ignore the fact that the natural state of man is tyranny. If you get rid of the relatively tame wolves in government, you open the door to the true monsters. There will always be men with guns willing to threaten, beat and kill to put you under their heel. If you want anarchy so that you can be the one of the boys with the big boots, I can respect that, but if you think dismantling all government will create utopia, you are in for a rude awakening.

@bankstagangsta2032

7 жыл бұрын

Government is a necessary evil?

@NumeroSystem

7 жыл бұрын

Government is only necessary if you want some significant degree of organized production in your society. If you just want food, water, and shelter you can have that without government. After all the Earth makes that stuff on its own. Of course there would still always be the threat of another group of people who do want organized production, creating a government, and then killing you.

@kennethpryde966

7 жыл бұрын

Banksta$Gangsta In my opinion, yes. It sucks. It's full of rotten, corrupt a-holes and grifters, but it's better than the alternative.

@DerekMorey6505

7 жыл бұрын

If man is naturally evil, why would you give him control over government? Wouldn't it be preferable to not create power structures that can be used for evil? If there is no government, much less harm can be inflicted on society. I would also challenge your assumption of the nature of man. Most people try very hard to be good moral people. People refrain from theft not because it is against the law, but because it is immoral.

Somehow I missed this episode when it first aired. For the past few years, I’ve considered myself a Minarchist. Within the Libertarian Party structure, it’s a moderate position and one that I’m comfortable with. Gary Johnson, in my view, was too left-winged. Hopefully, in 2020, the party will choose someone closer to the middle.

@robinthestate6548

3 жыл бұрын

how was Gary Johnson too left wing? I'm not too informed on his beliefs.

@smoothALOE

3 жыл бұрын

@@robinthestate6548 well, left-wing by Libertarian standards. It’s still better than, say, a left-wing Democrat. Like anything else, it comes down to government planning and interventionism. In my view, he wasn’t quite strong enough on 1st amendment rights. Still, he was better than the alternatives.

@robinthestate6548

3 жыл бұрын

@@smoothALOE well in all honesty if libertarian values are applied there's no need for amendments it's just one simple idea. NAP. you can be a communist for all I care aslong as you're not forcing anyone to share their labor. go ahead anf call yourself a commie.

@smoothALOE

3 жыл бұрын

@@robinthestate6548 I certainly agree with that, philosophically. The way I see NAP, it means that we need fewer laws, but some, which are in the Constitution, still apply. My quibble with Gary Johnson was him taking certain laws too far to be a consistent libertarian. Of course, this also just proves that the best way to keep things small is to just not even have them at all. The idea of no government seems to look more attractive all the time, haha!

@robinthestate6548

3 жыл бұрын

@@smoothALOE obviously. Milton friedman used to say that the only reason that goverments didn't take over the world was because even at that one thing they want they're inefficient at doing it.🤣🤣

2:15 forward: Every single ACAP youtuber out there, SPOT THE FUCK ON.

@DanHowardMtl

7 жыл бұрын

Agreement on the Conservation of Albatrosses and Petrels? acap.aq/ ? Sounds about right to me.

@HaggardPillockHD

7 жыл бұрын

what's acap?

@iliketorock21

7 жыл бұрын

libertarian youtuber?

Hey Dave, When you're talking about foreign intervention like this, you should bring up some real world examples. I think Rwanda, Kosovo, Iraq and Syria provide a broad spectrum. It is interesting to see where people draw the line.

This dude is speaking my language.

The Singapore system sounds interesting. What happens if, after saving for 20 years, I develop a permanent condition that incurs health care costs I can only afford for a short amount of time? Lets say 5 years after developing this condition I cannot afford my treatment any further and my "health care savings" have been fully depleted. What happens then- state intervention, or death?

The Singapore plan they talk about here was part of Cruz's proposal to fix healthcare - private savings accounts.

there seems to be problems with Singapores CPF as well. No system is perfect but as a member of the left I think this could be something that would work here in the states. www.wsj.com/articles/concerns-grow-over-singapore-pension-system-after-weekend-protests-1402319551

"Liberals believe in private property" You can't just say this without addressing Henry George. The fruits of one's labour should be private property, the profits one one's enterprise should be private property, but the fruits of the land should be shared. Libertarianism means very little if if does not get back to Henry George and the classical liberals who argued that tax needs to be shifted from labour and capital onto land.

I think y'all are missing the point, he's saying in America, the term libertarian is used to describe what other countries would just call anarchists

In America, "Liberal" has come to refer to those whose attitudes and views regarding social and moral norms are "open", "emancipated", "less restricted", and "untraditional". It doesn't much refer to their fiscal or economic views, but when it does, the "liberal" is more open to higher government spending and to having more government-backed social programs.

I think to accuse libertarians of virtue signalling seems a little unfair. Many get hated for it. What makes people into libertarians is they start at one simple place. That it is immoral for one person to initiate force on another. It's that simple. Then, they work back from there and apply that principle. It leaves you no choice but to oppose government on principle. Coherent libertarian parties don't really work because their views are so diverse they cannot all pull in one direction. They only need share the none aggression principle. I like this diversity of views but it can't create a coherent movement. It also has the problem that people like Alex Jones make ludicrous claims as a kind of counter culture which, although I see a place for all opinions, drives sensible people away before they even look into any of the principles

@codyrockarano5220

7 жыл бұрын

KowBoySpace If they were never going to look further into it based on Alex Jones they were never going to be able to coherently put libertarianism into an ideal they could associate with. The breadth and differences on role of government so varied. Little as possible seems to be the best answer, but for each person that is different. And even libertarians have bias that affect that their ideal limit on government.

@ChristopherFranko

7 жыл бұрын

silver bullets are fun

Oh I have an idea. Let’s stop fucking labeling everyone. Broad labels always miss the point and make tribal identity battles worse.

@RFSA180

5 жыл бұрын

I propose two... Fucking Dickhead and Not a Fucking Dickhead. World peace in weeks.

I am a American and have been traveling by automobile for 9 years without a corporate permit..... I got a ticket for driving without a license and used the 7th Amendment. The Spokane prosecutor asked the Judge, Greggory Tripp to dismiss the case..... Case dismissed... 9 years and counting.....