Real fans of Tolkien were not mad. They were not watching to begin with.

@mastermax2792

Жыл бұрын

True I gave up the moment I saw the damn hobbits and dwarven women with no BEARDS.

@stipesango806

Жыл бұрын

True..

@theatfshotmydog8224

Жыл бұрын

How LoTR fans feel about RoP is exactly how I feel about the Witcher Netflix show. It's an absolute disgrace.

@donjuanmckenzie4897

Жыл бұрын

​@@mastermax2792 not when you saw black hobbits?

@okamiedits5978

Жыл бұрын

Yes exactly you could just feel the...Fake attempt. My grandma was on a HOTD and ROP binge and literally just hearing the dialogue I wanted to gag. HOTD won this round, and I wasn't even into game of thrones before then.

"We're going to base a series on a novel/set of stories _without buying the rights to that IP._ Then, we'll change *all the most important parts* to avoid lawsuits.... wait, why is everybody mad?" - Some executive.

@xygo6038

Жыл бұрын

Ah yes a billion dollar company’s fan fic

@x0gucx

Жыл бұрын

I was wondering why tf is sauron a regular guy? Great f*cken evil corruptor who breed uruks from kidnapped elves, and poisons the world and his right hand man a random mf they call a wizard that doesn't use and magic and just wanted to be a blacksmith. tf? I also thought calabrimbor was commissioned to make the rings by sauron as an elf not just randomly accepts this human mf'ers random idea.

@wozzstream

Жыл бұрын

​@@x0gucx Couple of things first, it is in the lore that Sauron was momentarily good after Morgoth's hold on him had broken and even considered sailing to valinor to seek forgiveness but he eventually decided against it. Also, Sauron lore wise didn't commission the elven rings, just the human and the dwarf ones. But they fucked it up time line wise.

@HSG1999

Жыл бұрын

They didn’t want to sell it, so they bought what they could, which is the extra of what you see in the show.

@smallpseudonym2844

Жыл бұрын

@@HSG1999 And that is precisely the problem. If the Tolkein braintrust doesn't have faith in you to produce a proper show, maybe... don't?

Just gonna point out that Tolkien Untangled has 9 hours of him outlining how Rings of Power could have been MUCH better with the same exact rights as Amazon actually had, which means that the excuse-o-meter has officially hit -1

@joshualittle877

28 күн бұрын

Him who? Tolkein has been dead for a while and his son Chritopher died in 2020.

@jeremymott

23 күн бұрын

​@@joshualittle877 KZreadr Tolkien Untangled

No one was left confused by the Sauron’s reveal. It was painfully obvious from episode one, you just have to listen to the things halbrand says

@DJOfRadioGallifrey

Жыл бұрын

Not to be picky, but Halbrand first appeared in episode 2. So probably from *his first episode.* But yeah, it's obvious.

@MrBuns-yi2hk

Жыл бұрын

You could have found out before he was even introduced tbh.

@WraithReaper09

Жыл бұрын

@@DJOfRadioGallifrey He was in the trailers. So yeah it was "from episode one"

Can we honestly stop pretending “Didn’t buy the correct rights” is an actual legitimate excuse? It’s literally “Too cheap and lazy” but worded different.

@Chesemiser

Жыл бұрын

Yeah its like if someone bought the brand new Xbox I'm going to pretend is now coming out but when it arrived it was just a crappy PC with no Xbox exclusives, services or controllers and when we asked what that was up with that they said they didn't hold the rights or patients to make an Xbox or use any Xbox services

@dallinadams9422

Жыл бұрын

Hard to say with the $1 billion budget

@sleepycharlie673

Жыл бұрын

Yeah we all know the estate would have let them do it properly.

@jessiada

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it wasn't a rights issue that made the whole thing 100% predictable, or every main character being a casual sociopath. ROP is bad because it's soulless writing from a soulless corporation.

@fasteddy9312

Жыл бұрын

They bought the right to the appendix of The Lord of the Rings if I remember correctly. Annatar is in the appendix where it goes over how the rings of power were forged.

nah! most fans already guess at the earliest that halbrand is sauron its so transparent. most critics of the show kept calling him not sauron at 3rd episode mark.

@skits_3d824

Жыл бұрын

Second

@castiel4043

Жыл бұрын

Well the show just boring, I don't even care about this fanfiction 🤣

@8158bolga

Жыл бұрын

“Apperances can be deceiving” HOW SUBTLE! LOOK AT HOW SUBTLE WE ARE, GUYS! YOU CAN’T POSSIBLY TELL THAT HE IS SAURON! OH LOOK, HE IS EVEN INTERESTED IN SMITHING! THAT DOESN’T SOUND LIKE SAURON! NO SIR! SAURON HATES SMITHING! YOU ARE STUPID, WE ARE SMART! - J.D Payne and Patrick McKay

@blackfalcon1324

11 ай бұрын

@@8158bolgafor me the major tip-off was when he beat the numenoreans in a street fight.

@Pancakespls

8 ай бұрын

It was more of this has to be a red herring because if it's not.......😅

“We didn’t have the rights to the story we wanted to tell so we just used the names and places to make a new story”… This isn’t Tolkiens work.

@mauriceweber9840

Жыл бұрын

Tolkien literally wanted his work to be expanded by other peoples creative minds. So why do you care so much when Tolkien wanted it like this himself.

@Benevolent_Fafnir

Жыл бұрын

@@mauriceweber9840 I’m sorry what? Tolkien was a purest about his work and refused to sell the movie rights on multiple occasions because he knew how people would change it 😂

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@mauriceweber9840 expand on his work, not re-invent stories, he already had told. Why did Amazon not tell us a new story, like for example the adventures of the Blue Wizards in the east and west?

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@Benevolent_Fafnir to be fair, he did sell the rights to theater adaptions several times in his life because he needed the money and was not amused about the outcome, but i think Amazons "interpretation" would have been too much even for him.

@pelisinho

10 ай бұрын

​@@mauriceweber9840no he did not, that quote from Tolkien was a jest, people using it take it out of context.

"Let's stick to the lore!" -"But we don't have the rights to the lore!" "Ok, then just lets do whatever we want." This is not "A good reason" to break lore and create a completely new character.

If they didn't have the rights THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT. PERIOD, END OF SENTENCE. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. Then not having the IP is NOT a good reason to break lore, it's a good reason to PAY TO USE THE IP.

@Caledoniadream

Жыл бұрын

Or leave it alone and make a story of your own.

@monkeymox2544

Жыл бұрын

I didn't like RoP very much, mainly because the writing was very bad, not because it 'broke with the lore'. Couple of reasons for this: 1) There is no 'lore' in Tolkien. It is a legendarium, filled with conflicting and contradictory accounts. Tolkien changed his mind about a lot of things over the course of his life, and furthermore presented Middle Earth as a real history which he was essentially researching and speculating about. Literally nothing in Middle Earth should be seen as 100% canonically accurate, Tolkien himself wouldn't have liked that. Second, I quite liked not knowing what was going to happen. I must have read the Silmarillion a dozen times, I'm very familiar with the big three First Age stories, and I've read most of the other Christopher Tolkien publications at least once. Getting something entirely new (albeit inauthentic) appeals to me. I don't mind a production essentially being a high-budget fanfiction, as long as it is open about it. And to be fair to Amazon, they said from the very beginning that it wouldn't be entirely faithful to the original texts. I can also forgive Amazon on this basis: imagine you are an Amazon executive. You go to the notoriously difficult-to-negotiate-with Tolkien estate, and tell them you want to make a TV series. After long and costly negotiations, they finally agree to grant you rights to use _some_ material. Except the only fully developed stories you could possibly tell with those rights are the ones that have already been told in the Jackson trilogies. Given the nature of your job, would you honestly just say "nah we'll leave it alone", or would you seize on the incredibly rare opportunity to be allowed to use one of the most recognisable IPs in all modern popular culture? Be entirely honest here. Having said all that... yes RoP was bad. But I do think they could have made an excellent reimagining, using the source material available to them, if only the actual writing had been any good. I would have been fine with that.

@isaac13d

Жыл бұрын

@@monkeymox2544 they didn't respect it enough to put any heart into it.

@monkeymox2544

Жыл бұрын

@@isaac13d Yeah I agree it had very little heart to it. I don't know if we can legitimately attribute that to a lack of respect on the basis of the available evidence. Personally, I suspect a 'too many cooks' kind of situation, coupled with the kind of scene-by-scene driven writing that ruins so many modern franchises. There's probably a technical term for this, I'm not a writing critic. I mean the kind of writing where the writers seem to think something would be 'cool', and shove it in with no real regard for any of the characters' motivations, or anything that has occurred previously, or anything that will happen later. The kind of writing which assumes the audience isn't paying attention, basically).

@belegur8108

Жыл бұрын

@@monkeymox2544 i think the technical term is "Incompetence"...

Exactly why they shouldn’t have made the show

@heofnorenown

Жыл бұрын

And even if they had all the rights they’d still also only butcher that as well

@randycrawford1132

Жыл бұрын

How about you shut up

@zegobot9674

Жыл бұрын

@@heofnorenown I’d could make the story better just follow the lore

@havefuntazarasu5367

3 ай бұрын

Sauron is like prophet of allah

That wasn’t the only issue people had with this show😂

@paulbarclay4114

4 ай бұрын

i read all the original tolkien books including the unfinished ones. i didnt have any issues with the show. I never watched it to begin with. As soon as I saw the "woke" advertising i knew it was a no-go.

@cool-guycharlie6380

4 күн бұрын

They call us racists when we point out “hey why would there be black elves and hobbits? Both are very wooded peoples who live on a continent with environments similar (obviously) to Europe where famously and historically there wasn’t randomly a country full of dark skinned peoples. And yet simply for the sake of dei and other agendas now everyone has to suffer bad product because they don’t want real continuity in a story.

Fans were shocked the person jokingly nicknamed "Definitely not Sauron" from the literal start of the show was Sauron? Are you sure about that?

@torontomame

Жыл бұрын

Did that happen in the first scene of the first episode? 🤔

@HoboJoe10000

Жыл бұрын

@@torontomame it happened during the trailers for the show before the first scene ever aired

Fans of Tolkien knew Halbrand was Sauron from episode 1 man, but we couldn’t believe Amazon shitted their own show from start.

@DJOfRadioGallifrey

Жыл бұрын

episode 2 was halbrand's first.

@franciscojosecardenetedela2008

Жыл бұрын

@@DJOfRadioGallifrey Exactly, and we knew he was Sauron before he appeared.

@MrBuns-yi2hk

Жыл бұрын

​@Francisco José Cardenete de las Heras Didn't the one dude say they wanted to send Galadriel back home because she would bring Sauron back? Pretty sure that was in the first episode lol.

Not Sauron was Sauron and the writers rejoiced for they thought they were clever.... and then the fans wept

I believe that Sauron being Annatar was in the appendices of the Lord of the Rings, so was the backstory for Galadriel, Elrond, Celebrimbor, and Gil-galad..... Amazon bought the rights for the Lord of the Rings INCLUDING the Appendices..... So to claim that they remade the lore because they don't have the rights is quite questionable... Most likely, they just wanted to make the 2nd Age to be what they wanted regardless of the lore.

The fans of Tolkien were right to crap on that series. From even before the show came out.

@tio_john

Жыл бұрын

today in the brand new episode of I AGREE i say I ABSOLUTELY AGREE

“Fans of Amazon studios’ reprisal of the original ‘Lord of the Rings’ universe were kept waiting until the final episode of the season.” Ahh yes, I’m sure all three of them were absolutely dying of suspense.

@CNNBlackmailSupport

Жыл бұрын

Roflmao.

@kevorkmanougian6964

9 ай бұрын

I'm amazed anyone endured to watch the entire season.

@bilbobagsacs6112

26 күн бұрын

It was fantastic I can’t wait for the second season

@heofnorenown

26 күн бұрын

@@bilbobagsacs6112 you- you’re alone there buddy…

Starting from episodes 1-3 the popular nicknames of those 3 candidates you mentioned were “Definitely not Sauron”, “definitely not Gandalf”, and “Feminem” Yes I’m sure everyone was “shocked”

dude... no one was surprised? everyone knew he was sauron from the beginning...

The writers said in an interview they changed it from annatar to halbrand to surprise book readers. Of course in another interview they said they werent trying to surprise/trick anyone, soo... Whoever at Amazon who hired these show runners needs to be fired, they are incompetent.

@damienruzco

Жыл бұрын

Well I’m another interview(s) they also pointed out that any criticism of the show was due to toxic fans so why would they be fired all the legitimate reviews were perfect?

@alis4252

11 ай бұрын

They do not have the rights to use the Name Annatar. It is from unfinished tales

They should have made a story based on the blue wizards. Either they did good in the East to cause revolts against Sauron worship or they could have fallen to evil like Saruman. Something Tolkien didn’t expand on but they went and tried to retcon the Silmarillion.

@Juve_Fan2601

4 ай бұрын

Yeah like slowing down Sauron in building alliances in the east and south, which may have actually happened

@zibix4562

4 ай бұрын

Yeah and they couldve had most of the dei tokens , and couldve actually made sense. Hell they would've had a lot of gaps they couldve filled in if they did of the east

the only thing that was shocking was: 1. the amount of hubris that the creators had in thinking that they could "improve" on a literary genius like Tolkien. 2. the amount of contempt the actors had for the intended customers of the show. blaming everything but themselves for their failure.

@mauriceweber9840

Жыл бұрын

Tolkien himself said he wants other people with creative minds fill the holes in his work.

@zibix4562

4 ай бұрын

​@@mauriceweber9840which they couldve done with the blue wizards and the easterlings

The “sudden” reveal that Halbrand was Sauron. So sudden in fact that the moment Halbrand made an appearance he was given the name “not Sauron” by Nerdrotic.

They didn't have to break lore they wanted to and enjoyed it every step of the way

It's why this is a fan fiction prequel and not an adaptation of the 1A and 2A of lotr

Why’d everyone say it was Halbrand from the first teaser trailer? 😂🤣

"Lotr has no amazon show. Lotr needs no amazon show..."

“Sewerun” 💀

@michaelhodgson8272

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, at least he’s more likable than Guyladriel

@Mr.Goop92

10 ай бұрын

I was looking for some one to say it! He said also "Tolkiieen"😂

when my ol lady told me about this I got super excited! but when I asked if Petey Jack was coming back in any role whatsoever and she said “no..” so I said okay.. well.. that’s not off to a good start.. oh? And it was made by ..who? Amazon…?! Tf? HARD PASS.

Firstly, those who love Tolkien's work wondered why the travesty called Rings of Power was made in the first place. Secondly, it is Sauron not yee haw Souron.

When I saw the finale I thought the whole reveal is that he was Annatar taking the form of a false persona named Halbrand and everything that happened (the raft, etc) was all his doing, and that his true name just hasn't been revealed yet

There is absolutely no reason a human should watch this willingly

The whole setup in this short is harder to follow then to know that halbrand was sauron.

Bllsht that was. The Rings of power I mean

They didn't have the rights to the Silmarilion, but they show things depicted in that book.

One we didn't watch and two from the small snippets of footage we did see of that atrocity it was blatantly obvious that it was helbrand. Out of all the characters that didn't exist i.e. Harfoots, helbrand, GUYladriel, the dwarf queen, the stranger, the weird witch cult, elf dude who was with the orcs, female orcs, Don Lemonless elf and his human girlfriend, Isildur’s sister, Númenoreans who didn’t know how to fight, Gurlboss of Númenor. He was about as evident as it was that they didn't give two shits about Tolkien's actual work.

Everyone knew who he was was episode 2....

@Altrantis

Жыл бұрын

I thought it was him, but then they kept not having him make wonders and bringing gifts and ended not even being that famous or popular in Numenor before they left so I was like "I guess it wasn't him after all", but then he was.

That's not a good reason. That's idiocy.

The real Sauron was the friend we made along the way.

Fans were "up in arms" much earlier then the final episode.

Lol when i watched rings of power, i saw at first sight that the man from the sky was Gandalf, because his age is estimated to be something like 25000yrs. Also the episode before last episode show'd clearly who Sauron is

So instead of adapting the books they had the rights for into full series based on the books accurately, gaining FOR SURE the love of the tolkien fandom they had to: 1: break lore 2: insult the lore 3: insult the fans The failure is well earned

The appendices in the lord of the ring books pretty much covers a lot of the content in the Silmarillion though.

They did not have to break lore... they could have made a tv show with the actual material they had rights to.

Hahahahahaha! Everyone guessed well before the final episode who the villain was.

Absolute idiocy and total disrespect to Tolkien. It's not even sad anymore, it's just... bruh

Sauron is in the appendices. there was 3 major story lines they could have explored, they didn't care, just get that message out there no matter how much they butcher the story. not having the rights is no excuse to do what they did. They had way more rights than they could ever cover in 5 seasons of this terrible show.

And this is why we should never let big companies take the things we love. They can only fuck it up.

this was the most obvious reveal ever

"There was a reason..." Yeah incompetence

I really wish everything wasn’t about money simply so thousands of fans can truly get an accurate depiction of what the author intended

I'll just point out that almost everyone I know that watched this show said that the hellbrand, or how his name is written, is Sauron. It wasn't a secret and was clumsily done.

If can't use the texts from other books, then stay in the book that you have. Don't change anything because you won't be able to fix it.

We weren’t left confused, we were left pissed off and over the show.

You can't defend this monstrosity of a show. Breaking lore by definition ruins the entire thing.

Dude that's like if you wanted to broadcast a sport event and instead of acquiring the rights to broadcast games you only acquire rights to broadcast practice sessions and now you want to make them look like an actual game.

Um..... No, Amazon didn't get the rights to The Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit. They got the rights to the appendices that is why they had to make this game fiction. And as Tolkien fan I'm glad because I can only imagine the harm they would have done to the legendarium if they had the rights to all.

I think everyone who watches the show knew in reality. There are a lot if signs and it's just really easy to assume. But I think some people still hoped (including myself) that maaaaybe they would have a little more care with their multi million dollar show.

If you can't acquire the proper rights to do justice to a piece of work then maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place?

Erm, we don't grant this series the honour of having 'Lord Of The Rings' in its title. It's an insult to Tolkiens lifelong work

It was blatantly obvious who sauron was. Anyone who was a true fan of lord of the rings was confused through the whole series because nothing matched the books. Characters were alive thousands of years before they should of been. Characters magically teleported everywhere. Galadriel was an emotionless pit of a character that only had one facial expression throughout the entire series. There was no real character arc for any of the characters in the series. The only thing that this series had similar to the books was the names of characters and that was it. It’s just names used to make money off of the beloved books and movies. In the original movies the extras were required to have read the books in order to be in the movie and it seems like no one making this series had ever read the books or even watched the movies. This series is nowhere near the worth of 2 billion dollars.

Honestly, thematically it makes more sense to do it this way. If they had given him the same name as in the books everyone would’ve known who Sauron was from the beginning lol. By changing it up they actually created a mystery around who Sauron was and made the audience feel deceived by the betrayal, like the elves were

the most obvious "reveal" in tv history!

So... they created fanfiction. The rings of power is fanfiction. In other news, water is wet

So they only acquired the rights to lord of the rings and the hobbit….and decided to do a completely different part of middle earth history to which they didn’t have the rights. No wonder I couldn’t make it past the first half of episode one.

If you READ the Silmarillion you would know that Sauron Is a creation and servant of Melkor, One of the ainur created by eru illuvatar himself. So Sauron Is an ancient creature older than the 5 wizards themselves

@derubermensch9809

6 ай бұрын

Melkor didnt create Sauron, Sauron was named mairon before Melkor and was one of the strongest maiar.

Even better, they only got the rights to the appendices of LOTR and The Hobbit.

Fans of the original books will also know you pronounced Tolkien wrong.... Jesus.

Real Tolkien fans who were aware of what modern Hollywood does knew it was Halbrand and shit right away.

Amazon: *makes crappy show entirely different from Tolkien's work* Also Amazon: "if you don't like our shit, you're racist."

They didn’t have to do Jack and just left Tolkien’s work alone.

not a legitimate reason for screwing up the story in fact they should all be fired and start over with people that care about integrity of the real story

Anyone a fan of the rings of power isn't a Tolkien fan.

We weren't just confused about that, we were confused as to why this abomination existed in the first place.

Let's spend a quarter billion dollars on the rights to the books we don't need... fucking amazon... screwed this one up big

However Amazon had a good reason for this. They’ve probably never read anything by JRR Tolkien

I'm positive the WNBA has more fans than this show...

There's fans of RoP? Huh, must've missed them.

Real fan of Tolkien here. I knew it was Sauron after the third episode. The whole show was so badly written I just didn’t care and still don’t. 😂

Definitely watching the original trilogy and reading the books instead of caring about whatever garbage this is.

I am a fan of the literary work of Tolkien, and I wasn't up in arms about it. I didn't care enough to be up in arms or even enough to watch the show.

The way the narrator pronounces certain pop culture character names really grinds my gears.

And that's just 1 of 1000's lore they broke...

Excellent job pointing this out, not many fans of the books took the opportunity to read and find out that this was in fact the truth of it

Why couldn't they buy the full rights before making this knowing how big it was going to be

This does nothing but confirm Amazon’s irresponsibility towards a great story.

"Self-imposed King of the Southlands." I think you mean, "nominated by Elf Karen who got pissy when it turned out he wasn't all along."

Lol no one who was a fan was confused who was a fan and no they didn't have to change it due to rights.

Real Tolkien fan here. This show is not LOTR. It's fanfic created by non-fans, to make as much money as possible

I don’t think a single person was neither confused or surprised that Halbrand was Sauron. I knew immediately. It was so painfully obvious.

No one was left confused, we were bloody outraged by the sacrilege.

Half the fan base figured out it was Hallbrand from his first appearance on the show.

The Silmarillion isn't even canon since Tolkien never finished it. He died before that. Tolkien's remaining notes were edited into a book by his son. And the series of books also published by his son shows that Tolkien rewrote his upcoming works many times before publishing them as books. In the case of The Silmarillion, this is precisely the process that was interrupted by Tolkien's death. The case of the blue mages can be cited as an example: initially the two unnamed mages would have arrived in the Third Age after Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast, later Tolkien reconsidered and the blue mages arrived in Middle-earth already in the Second Age, they were even given a name, and then Tolkien renamed them. So the Silmarillion is far from canon, rather a working project released in a frozen state before completion.

This show is a disgusting plague on Tolkien.

No Tolkien fan was confused about the reveal, instead we're probably all confused about why you called "not having IP for Silmarillion" a "good reason" for not following lore, when making a show about stuff that happened in Silmarillion.

Sounds like Amazon's legal team is sh*t.

I wasn't aware that any fans of Tolkien's properties actually watched this show. Pointing out lore inconsistencies would be pointless. There are simply too many.

The rings of power was a mistake, it is a stain on the legacy of Tolkiens work.

Hey guys, let's make a show based on an amazing book, but let's not get the rights to said book. Instead, we'll get the rights to another great book in the series. But we'll make this show set in the time period for the book we couldn't get the rights to. 😂😂😂

No one was surprised. We were disappointed and annoyed