This is the most hilarious and funny lecture among all the lectures he did. Sense of humour in this was just perfect timing!

2,000 years ago, books were rare and expensive. If you wanted to sell any, they'd better be really interesting.

Carrier makes a really good case for the mythicist side. There's obviously no way to ever prove or disprove Jesus's existence(well they'll never be any we can find) but I feel there's no reason to believe he existed at all until there evidence.

@trevornwright0101

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah me too I do not believe in Jesus' existence either.

this video should have 2 billion views. one for each christian

@aaronmuller6050

Жыл бұрын

Im only 2 minutes in and I see problems in his argument. And yes I'm a Christian

@BesserGlauben

Жыл бұрын

@@aaronmuller6050 Richard Carrier is laughable😂 Literally no serious scholar is taking him seriously

@psylegio

Жыл бұрын

@@aaronmuller6050 2 minutes was all I had patience to endure this nonsense. 😄

@BesserGlauben

Жыл бұрын

@@AwesomeWrench True that, but it should make him suspicious at the very least. There are reasons why that is the case.

@crb4059

11 ай бұрын

thank God, we outnumber you

This IMO was Carrier's best talk. This one was the funniest and most entertaining

Very interesting Lecture, Thank you Richard Carrier

Thanks for uploading a very interesting, enjoyable lecture.

There was a writer, inventor and genius "Jara Cimrman". Born in Vienna, died in Liptakov just before WWI. is father was a tailor, his mother was an actress, his sister became a teacher. He wrote more than 20 theater plays, one opera, books, poems, diaries, one theater plays only his works for more than 50 years (It started when there were still witnesses of time he lived in), they play nothing else, still sold out. He was close friend with T. A. Edison and helped him with the lightbulb mount system. He was teacher of the kids of the Duke Ferdinand Habsburg. He was imprisoned for a while, because a bridge which he helped construct collapsed. There are streets named after him, he is mentioned in, many books, some movies, there are photographs of him. He is part of popular culture for at least half a century. And - he never existed, he is a construct made by several people in the 1960s as a clever protest against foreign soviet regime and local authorities.

@SuLorito

5 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thx!

@lexprontera8325

4 жыл бұрын

I just spent an hour reading about him. Wow! That was one impressive dude. And look! He even has an asteroid named after him! That is some serious commitment to a joke.

Richard Carrier is absolutely hilarious in this speech. The explanation of New Testament scripture in modern vernacular just shows how strange it is.

@missasinenomine

4 жыл бұрын

It was written in Greek.

@theralhaljordan7337

4 жыл бұрын

@@missasinenomine I don't think he said it wasn't

@danderran

3 жыл бұрын

Carrier’s “modern vernacular” now sounds rather tired, outdated, totally unfunny and shows how “strange” he is. He reminds me of some kind of mouthy, wound up, American insult comedian of the 80’s. He looks so serious and nervous, like he’s got to read these 10,000 words in half an hour, otherwise, he won’t get his fee! Or, maybe, he’s just seen the cops at the back of the hall, come to investigate the sex pest reports about him.

@tripolarmdisorder7696

3 жыл бұрын

@@danderran aww, don't worry. The cops will eventually find your cache of little boys in your basement and want to speak with you too. You are projecting so hard, you're going to pull your groin muscle, or maybe your spleen.

@quinetastic

3 жыл бұрын

@@danderran Pure ad hominem...please address the arguments.

Let's spread the word folks! There never was a Jesus!

@geoengr3

3 жыл бұрын

Praise be the Truth!

@maxamahnken7325

Жыл бұрын

Wrong.

@alvindaughtry2168

4 ай бұрын

You are doing exactly what Jesus said that you would do . And you are doing it. Jesus also said that you will go to your knees and confess that He is who He says He is. And you will do it. I will do it also. You , me, or Carrier will have no choice.

@antonius_006

2 күн бұрын

​@@alvindaughtry2168 the fact that you think like that does not mean that everybody will do the same. When Justice comes, It comes from the Holy Spirit and you will notice It.

Excellent. Thanks for uploading.

This is a great presentation. Thank you Dr Carrier!

This made me laugh so much i nearly spat out my dinner twice!

The book mentioned by Richard Carrier that has evidence of Jesus outside of the gospels is: Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence (Studying the Historical Jesus) by Robert E. Van Voorst.

Loved this

I like this guy

There were many thousands of Jesus's, none of them were magic, all of them died.

@georgeelmerdenbrough6906

4 жыл бұрын

There still are cincentrations of Jesuses in Latin America ....but also Hetculeses in Greece and France , and Thors in Skandinavia .

@TheJacrespo

4 жыл бұрын

Josephus depicted within the time of Jesus a feverish epidemic rave of Messiahs of all sort, by far more successful than Jesus: Theudas, the egyptian, the samaritan prophet and son on all of them crushed by the roman legions...till the very moment when the Temple was utterly destroyed.

Clear explanations well presented. Ancient folktales and fables are demonstrably not histories. Belief in nonsense is a threat to any society. The Jesus myths crumble under scrutiny.

@janepatton8100

8 күн бұрын

Interesting... What are your thoughts on gender ideology? 1. Is it true that a male can become a female? 2 Is it true that a person can be born in the wrong body?

This is a great video, a reality trip !

Why does the video skip before he responded to the first question? I really wanted to hear his answer..

Carrier should consider doing standup on the side. LOL

@Samura1gamer

9 жыл бұрын

Idiot atheist you use a picture of stephen hawking who is widely known to have been one of the smartest people alive and then 'idiot atheist' as a nickname. are you insane?

@jmitterii2

8 жыл бұрын

+Idiot atheist The concept of religion is somewhat funny, especially how anyone with current understanding of empirical study could fit such nonsense into their heads. And I mean all religions.

@wmthewyld

8 жыл бұрын

jmitterii2 Prove religion is nonsense.

@Samura1gamer

8 жыл бұрын

Idiot atheist CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. name your religion

@wmthewyld

8 жыл бұрын

Samura1gamer The claim is "The concept of religion is somewhat funny, especially how anyone with current understanding of empirical study could fit such nonsense into their heads. And I mean all religions". I want to see proof.

52:09 Robert Van Voorst was my undergrad professor. Great guy and scholar. he's convinced by historicity because he was a Methodist minister, i suppose.

@gabepearson6104

2 жыл бұрын

Have you read the book?

@turinhorse

2 жыл бұрын

@@gabepearson6104 I did look for it on amazon. but then knowing that I took 5 classes with him and spending hours at his dinner table discussing the NT, I figured I knew most of the material already. Robert is a wonderful person and was a joy to learn from; has a great sense of humor. I just happen to personally know that for all his erudite scholarship - historicity came down to his "faith".

@gabepearson6104

2 жыл бұрын

@@turinhorse ok that’s really cool

Thank you @Roper122, that is a very succinct summary of the counter (erm... argument?) I was trying to give.

What a masterfully skilled man.

Using Acts to destroy historical Jesus is pure brilliance.

@j919or

5 жыл бұрын

no. you are just easily decieved. hell is your destiny and im not gonna get in your way...just destroy ur illogical arguments

@XalphYT

4 жыл бұрын

Johnny A You need to watch this video again starting at 19:04 and ending at 41:06 until you understand that Richard Carrier has just used the trials in Acts to invalidate the Gospels.

@daogdaog

4 жыл бұрын

@@XalphYT Richard Carrier is a big joke. He could probably create doubts to convince you that your great grandparents did not exist.

@XalphYT

4 жыл бұрын

bo ang Would you be so kind as to provide an example?

@bubble8829

4 жыл бұрын

This talk is very entertaining. But it misses the point that using Acts by itself to try to refute (or indeed to accept) any historicity in the life of Jesus is a fallacious approach. Acts was not written or intended to be a complete or accurate record of historical events; it wasn't meant to be history. It was written to address issues of theology of the time it was written; to address issues of the relationship between the early Christians and the Jews, and the early Christians and the Empire; and to be didactic. It therefore has its own particular emphases; and of course it has lacunae where the author would have decided some information was not relevant to or useful for what he was doing. This is not dishonesty. It is simply a different genre from history. A loose analogy is Shakespeare's history plays. People in Shakespeare's day, watching Shakespeare's plays from _Henry VI Part I_ to _Richard III_ , would not have expected that the plays depicted a complete or accurate record of events from 1422-1485. Nor would they have believed that most of the words Shakespeare had his characters say were ever actually spoken by the real historical figures a century before. Shakespeare had his own purpose, and his own messages, that he was putting across. Equally, though, this is not to say that there is no historical accuracy in Shakespeare's plays. There is some. And there is some in Acts as well. But finding it takes much more careful sifting, analysis and interpretation, and comparison with other evidence, than Dr Carrier is willing to acknowledge or engage in here. ---------------------------------------------- As an aside, at the start of his speech, Dr Carrier quotes a section of the Talmud ( _Sanhedrin_ 43a-b, dated 100-200 AD). It is by no means true that this passage from the Talmud is 'really the best evidence for Jesus that we have outside the New Testament'. Dr Carrier misrepresents the findings of mainstream scholarship on the other extra-biblical sources for the existence of Jesus, including Josephus. Regarding Josephus specifically, what Dr Carrier terms as 'nearly everybody' in this field of study in fact agrees that the paragraph referring to Jesus that Dr Carrier mentions is partly authentic, and partly contains later Christian additions. Even removing what may be later Christian additions, we are still left at the least with something like: _At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of people who received the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and among many of Greek origin. And when Pilate, because of an accusation made by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him previously did not cease to do so. And up until this very day the tribe of Christians, so named after him, has not died out._ There is, moreover, a second passage in Josephus which mentions Jesus. Josephus relates the trial and martyrdom of 'the brother of Jesus the so-called Messiah-Christ, whose name was James, and some others'. Scholars accept that this passage is authentic to Josephus.

Heru was known over 10,000 years ago. Born December 25th, born of a virgin, known as the 'Way, Truth & The Light', had 12 disciples, died on a cross and rose after 3 days and was the 'Lion of Khemet (Egypt). This lie of Jesus was forced on us and was derived from Horus or Heru...Please watch this sermon from Dr. Ray Hagins and learn our lost and forgotten truth/history and not 'his' story...

@BeyondSkys09

10 жыл бұрын

hahahahahahahahaha good one

Deserves way more views!

@ 6:20 - If the Sun went out ... the Chinese would be freaking out? Perhaps not, because when it is 3 pm in Jerusalem, it is already 8 pm in Beijing (and this was to supposed to have occurred around the Spring Equinox). Aside from that minor detail, what an excellent analysis of Book of Acts! Great work. Cheers.

"Son of God - Bacchus Edition": that's the one for me!

@Martin-sp4zf

Жыл бұрын

That was a wined-up.

Yup! Carrier pretty well nailed it. PRAISE THE LORD! Oh wait, he doesn't exist. Damn. Now where the hell will I go after this life? When I think of religion I feel embarrassed that adults actually believe in such nonsense. But, I feel anger when I consider the fact that they brainwash children with such absurdities.

@wmthewyld

9 жыл бұрын

"But, I feel anger when I consider the fact that they brainwash children with such absurdities." The only brainwashing going on is from atheist and their nonsense.

@mike112769

8 жыл бұрын

+Idiot atheist Why do you zealots come these sites and start telling non-christians how worthless they are? You are not converting anyone, but are making sure they hate your superstition even more. We need more christians like you, because you are hurting your own cause far more than we care to. I wish I knew where you went to church, so I could go teach Science in your Sunday school.

@Dr10Jeeps

8 жыл бұрын

+mike112769 Don't bother trying to teach science to believers, especially the fundamentalist type. I have tried to explain evolution through natural selection to Christian fundamentalists (Creationists) and after "listening" patiently, their reply is always along the lines of "If humans evolved from apes, why are there still apes." They either simply choose not to understand evolution (or cosmology for that matter) or are too unintelligent to do so. It is so much easier for them to read one "Holy Book" and interpret the world through the writings of iron-age peasants. It is more than sad. It is pathetic.

@wmthewyld

8 жыл бұрын

mike112769 Hey Mike, when did I say anyone was worthless/ Jesus shed his precious blood for all mankind. That makes everyone, including Hitler, precious. atheist feel worthless because of the low self-esteem atheist feel about themselves. "You are not converting anyone" I'm not here to convert anyone. I am shining a light of truth in ignorance of atheistic darkness. "but are making sure they hate your superstition even more" atheism is all about hate, intolerance, anger, nonsense, hypocrisy, ignorance and bigotry. Prove I have a "superstition". "hurting your own cause" what cause? I don't care if you believe the truth I show. " I wish I knew where you went to church". I go to Heartland Christian Center 170 South State Road 49 | Valparaiso, IN, 46383 219.462.4500 "teach Science" Some of history's greatest scientists were Christian. They all say atheism was nonsense.

@wmthewyld

8 жыл бұрын

Dr10Jeeps Again, you're atheistic ignorance and closed-mindedness shines through. There is a great difference between explaining evolution and proving evolution. Evolution is one of the greatest fairy tales. Some of the books in the Bible were written in the 6th century B.C. To say the people who wrote these book were peasants again shows your ignorance. Peasants could not read or write. Your claim just shows how massive is your Bible ignorance. It is more than sad. It is pathetic.

Thanks for the Q&A section reference. I recalled that he said that too, but didn't want to search through the video to find it. Peer review will be interesting.

Revelation: " 5 hr long acid trip" ... wonderful that's exact what it is.

Thanks HamboneProductions for doing this. Great Richard Carrier video - I love his theory. I hope the idea spreads through the atheist community. If the comments and response videos are any indication - this theory also really makes fundies uncomfortable!

@ronclass1782

4 жыл бұрын

Well has it? It's been five years

@williamOwen1990

3 жыл бұрын

Most atheists care about academic credibility, which is why Richard Carrier will never be taken seriously.

@williamOwen1990

2 жыл бұрын

@Alex McAuliff haha. Well, moving on from your ignorant assertion that religious people are somehow not normal, or thinking...if it’s true that you think rationally, and are objective: consider that if an academic is held in low regard by the wider community (e.g., a low number of citations to that person’s work), there are probably good reasons why that is the case.

@williamOwen1990

2 жыл бұрын

@Alex McAuliff You wrote: ‘Being an atheist (a.k.a a normal thinking human)…’, the clear implication being that non-atheists are somehow NOT normal, thinking humans. “there was a man who spoke to some God and was told how the world was created.” I don’t know what story you’re referring to there. And your point is irrelevant - a person brought up without scientific “indoctrination” (education) would be ignorant of much that is true, for example. What’s your point? The point I was making - you claim to care about rational reasoning, yet at the same time you say that you’re not interested in academic credentials. That is irrational! At least in the West, if a person has gained academic credentials, they’ve EARNED those credentials, for good reason. Which is not to say that all academics are trustworthy purely on the basis that they have a good reputation, but as a rule of thumb, if a person teaches at say Oxford, or Cambridge, it’s a good bet that they know what they’re talking about. And if a person has a poor academic reputation (as Carrier does), there is likewise probably a good reason.

@williamOwen1990

2 жыл бұрын

@Alex McAuliff I didn't say you should venerate academics, or not question them. I was simply pointing out that your statement "I couldn't care less about a persons academic credentials" stands in contradiction to your alleged rational mindset. OBVIOUDLY you should care whether or not a person has academic credentials. If I'm going to buy a book about the historic Jesus, for example, I'd much rather buy a book that's written by a respected, well cited Oxford scholar, than by a nobody who hasn't got any qualifications.

This public intellectual will make you a better thinker.

Is this lecture available on a transcript I can print off ? It’s just plain brilliant.

An excellent argument and funny to boot! Makes it that much more interesting to watch. It's funny how when people argue for the historicity of Jesus, most of their arguments boil down to just saying "Well, he MUST of existed, because it says so!" But when you look into the facts presented by the sources, the picture actually is much more complicated, and reveals a story that was largely fabricated and exaggerated in the least and completely fictional at the most.

Love Richard, such a magnificent mind yet he manages to put it into terms that 99% of us can understand, that’s takes true genius

@LumieX

Жыл бұрын

He thinks the most influential and important person to ever walk the Earth didn't actually exist lol. How you get to be this stupid is truly incredible.

@alvindaughtry2168

4 ай бұрын

Love Dick ? Well carrier is smart. But I wouldn't say that I love Dick. But he is a nice guy.

Just a small little grip: The original version of Mark (the earliest of the gospels), end with an empty tomb and no mention of a resurrected Jesus ever appearing. The chapters after the empty tomb are later additions by scribes copying the book.

@beatmodnrocker

9 жыл бұрын

Wait... you actually think Carrier does not know this? Did you listen to the lecture?

I have always asked these big question as well. Very well said. Loved everything he said. I'll never understand why or how Christians will always put down other faiths or non-believers yet, their book is flawed due to the lack of evidence. #truth

That was enjoyable.

NOT ONE OF THE 33,000+ GODS IN RECORDED HUMAN HISTORY WAS REAL. THEY EACH HAVE THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE FOR THEIR EXISTENCE AS THE OTHER GODS. NONE; ABSOLUTELY NONE .

The one question I REALLY wanted to hear him answer is the one that get's skipped out...

Christmas can be magical for a kid, thinking about getting presents from a magic man who knows their every thought and deed and rewards them for being special. It can seem cruel and cold to burst that bubble of fantasy. But Christmas really is even more amazing when it's about the people you love around you, sharing your love for them and theirs for you. So it is with God...

That makes so much sense.

I feel like many people are still living in 100 BCE reading the religious peoples' comments. They're either full of ad homine attacks or incredibly fallacious statements, along with extremely hypocritical statements or no evidence supporting their own claims. It's funny. But also sad. You'd think in this day in age with empirical reasoning, people wouldn't be as ignorant aka stupid. I think the level of stupid when it comes to religion is a demonstration on how powerful culture is to the human psychology. Even light cultural influences have a profound indoctrinated effect. Even today I'll say things like "Thank god" or "GEEEEZE" which references Jesus, even though I consider all religions bogus, and consider all deities non-existent based on what evidence is currently available.

@janepatton8100

8 күн бұрын

How are you certain that you're not under the same indoctrinated effect with hyper skepticism towards the historical Jesus?

Awesome speech. The cult approves.

@ChillAssTurtle

2 жыл бұрын

Pog

Yes

If Jesus was the word, then Carrier impersonates the book.

Yes, how amazing that a star could travel around over a region full of expert astronomers yet only 3 men saw it, or earthquakes could happen yet nobody noticed, or indeed the Sun go out for hours, plunging the world into darkness, and again nobody seemed to notice it! Of course where the Sun to go out the Earth would be exposed to the cold of space, which would be a very bad thing. This video is brilliant, it shows the almost unbelievable stupidity of the Gospels, which can't even agree on the stupidity!

Good video, All serious historians and scholars know that the Jesus described in gospels never existed, Now I think the debate will focus on, which is the origin of the myth of jesus? who exactly made up all that shit and why?? Is it an allegory to something in particular?? the thesis of Joseph Atwill sounds very good buy other academics do not agree..

@wmthewyld

8 жыл бұрын

+CARLOS I All seriously deluded historians and scholars know that Jesus never existed. If there was one iota of evidence, that would be nice. There is no evidence that Jesus didn't exist. That is fact.

@deehee7380

8 жыл бұрын

+Idiot atheist THE OLDEST SECULAR ACCOUNTS & HISTORICAL EVIDENCE ON THE EXISTANCE OF JESUS OF NAZARETH Cornelius Tacitus (AD55-120) Roman historian: Most acclaimed works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals cover the period from Augustus Caesar's death in AD14 to the death of the Emperor Nero in AD68, while the Histories begin after Nero's death and proceed to the reign of Domitian in AD96. In the Annals, Tacitus alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians at Rome. See Annals XV,44: But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." (The misspelling of Christ as "Christus" was a common error made by pagan writers). It is interesting that Pilate is not mentioned in any other pagan document which has survived. It is an irony of history that the only surviving reference to him in a pagan document mentions him because of the sentence of death he passed on Jesus the Messiah. Suetonius: Roman historian and court official during the reign of the Emperor Hadrian. Suetonius wrote in his Life of Claudius: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." (Life of Claudius 25.4). Chrestus is a misspelling of Christus; the spelling probably assumes that the spelling of Jesus' title "Christos" was the same as ate ChiRho symbol which was also a literary device which indicated a quote worthy of note = the 'chrestus" symbol. Claudius' expulsion of the Christians form Rome is mentioned in Acts 18:2. This event took place in 49AD. In his work Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius also wrote: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." Assuming Jesus was crucified in the early thirties, Suetonius places Christians in the Roman capital less than 20 years later and he reports that they were suffering for their faith and dying for their conviction that Jesus had really lived, died and that He had risen from the dead! Pliny the Younger: Roman governor in Bithynia AD112 wrote to Emperor Trajan to seek advice as to how to treat the Christians. He recounts that he had been killing Christian men, women, and children. He is concerned that so many have chosen death over simply bowing down to a statue of the emperor or being made to "curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do." (Epistles X, 96) Tallus: Tallus was a secular historian who (circa AD52) wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean from the Trojan War to his own time. The document no longer exists but it was quoted by other writers like the Christian, Julius Africanus, who wrote around AD221. He quotes Tallus' comments about the darkness that enveloped the land during the late afaternoon hours when Jesus died on the cross. Julius wrote: Tallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1 The importance of Tallus' comments is that the reference shows that the Gospel account of the darkness that fell across the earth during Christ's crucifixion was well known and required a naturalistic explanation from non-Christians. Phlegon: Julius Africanus also quoted another secular scholar whose works are now lost. Phlegon wrote a history called Chronicles. Phlegon also comments on the darkness at the time of Christ's crucifixion: "During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1 (The 3rd century Christian apologist Origen also references Phlegon's record of this event in his work Celsum, 2.14,33,59 as does the 6th century writer Philopon (De.opif.mund. II, 21. Mara Bar-Serapion: Syrian stoic philosopher who wrote a letter from prison to his son circa 70AD. He compares Jesus to the philosophers Socrates and Pythagoras. Josephus ben Mattathias (also known as Flavius Josephus): 37-100AD, Jewish priest, general and historian. He wrote two great works of Jewish history: The Jewish War, written in the early 70's and Jewish Antiquities, which was finished about AD94. In his work, Jewish Antiquities, there is a passage that has created heated debate among scholars for many decades: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day." Antiquities, XVIII, 33 Lucian of Samosate: Greek satirist later half of 2nd century spoke scornfully of Christ and the Christians but never argued that Jesus never existed. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day, the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account..." The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 The Babylonian Talmud: "It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for 40 days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover." Sanhedrin 43a; df.t.Sanh. 10:11; y. Sanh. 7:12; Tg. Esther 7:9 (Another version of this text reads: "Yeshu the Nazarene." Yeshu or Yehoshua is Hebrew (or Aramaic) for Jesus in English this name is also translated "Joshua." The Old Testament hero bore the same name as Jesus the Messiah. "Hanged" is another way of referring to a crucifixion; see Luke 23:39 and Galatians 3:13 No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus. Otto Betz

@wmthewyld

8 жыл бұрын

dee hee This I know to be true. You should direct your response to CARLOS I.

@deehee7380

8 жыл бұрын

+CARLOS I... THE OLDEST SECULAR ACCOUNTS & HISTORICAL EVIDENCE ON THE EXISTANCE OF JESUS OF NAZARETH Cornelius Tacitus (AD55-120) Roman historian: Most acclaimed works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals cover the period from Augustus Caesar's death in AD14 to the death of the Emperor Nero in AD68, while the Histories begin after Nero's death and proceed to the reign of Domitian in AD96. In the Annals, Tacitus alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians at Rome. See Annals XV,44: But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." (The misspelling of Christ as "Christus" was a common error made by pagan writers). It is interesting that Pilate is not mentioned in any other pagan document which has survived. It is an irony of history that the only surviving reference to him in a pagan document mentions him because of the sentence of death he passed on Jesus the Messiah. Suetonius: Roman historian and court official during the reign of the Emperor Hadrian. Suetonius wrote in his Life of Claudius: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." (Life of Claudius 25.4). Chrestus is a misspelling of Christus; the spelling probably assumes that the spelling of Jesus' title "Christos" was the same as ate ChiRho symbol which was also a literary device which indicated a quote worthy of note = the 'chrestus" symbol. Claudius' expulsion of the Christians form Rome is mentioned in Acts 18:2. This event took place in 49AD. In his work Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius also wrote: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." Assuming Jesus was crucified in the early thirties, Suetonius places Christians in the Roman capital less than 20 years later and he reports that they were suffering for their faith and dying for their conviction that Jesus had really lived, died and that He had risen from the dead! Pliny the Younger: Roman governor in Bithynia AD112 wrote to Emperor Trajan to seek advice as to how to treat the Christians. He recounts that he had been killing Christian men, women, and children. He is concerned that so many have chosen death over simply bowing down to a statue of the emperor or being made to "curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do." (Epistles X, 96) Tallus: Tallus was a secular historian who (circa AD52) wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean from the Trojan War to his own time. The document no longer exists but it was quoted by other writers like the Christian, Julius Africanus, who wrote around AD221. He quotes Tallus' comments about the darkness that enveloped the land during the late afaternoon hours when Jesus died on the cross. Julius wrote: Tallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1 The importance of Tallus' comments is that the reference shows that the Gospel account of the darkness that fell across the earth during Christ's crucifixion was well known and required a naturalistic explanation from non-Christians. Phlegon: Julius Africanus also quoted another secular scholar whose works are now lost. Phlegon wrote a history called Chronicles. Phlegon also comments on the darkness at the time of Christ's crucifixion: "During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1 (The 3rd century Christian apologist Origen also references Phlegon's record of this event in his work Celsum, 2.14,33,59 as does the 6th century writer Philopon (De.opif.mund. II, 21. Mara Bar-Serapion: Syrian stoic philosopher who wrote a letter from prison to his son circa 70AD. He compares Jesus to the philosophers Socrates and Pythagoras. Josephus ben Mattathias (also known as Flavius Josephus): 37-100AD, Jewish priest, general and historian. He wrote two great works of Jewish history: The Jewish War, written in the early 70's and Jewish Antiquities, which was finished about AD94. In his work, Jewish Antiquities, there is a passage that has created heated debate among scholars for many decades: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day." Antiquities, XVIII, 33 Lucian of Samosate: Greek satirist later half of 2nd century spoke scornfully of Christ and the Christians but never argued that Jesus never existed. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day, the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account..." The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 The Babylonian Talmud: "It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for 40 days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover." Sanhedrin 43a; df.t.Sanh. 10:11; y. Sanh. 7:12; Tg. Esther 7:9 (Another version of this text reads: "Yeshu the Nazarene." Yeshu or Yehoshua is Hebrew (or Aramaic) for Jesus in English this name is also translated "Joshua." The Old Testament hero bore the same name as Jesus the Messiah. "Hanged" is another way of referring to a crucifixion; see Luke 23:39 and Galatians 3:13 No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus. Otto Betz

@deehee7380

8 жыл бұрын

+CARLOS I ...actually, quite the opposite is true. No sincere historian doubts he existed. The question is, who was he?

holy shit is richard carrier ever a beast. i havent read any of his books, but read excerpts and quotes here and there, just seemed like a respectable normal guy. but his honest position on him saying you should believe the consensus, as a layperson, of the people who he disagrees with, and until he can convince the community of scholars that his view is right, the consensus should be the generally accepted view. thats honest, frank, and aside from his wit and sharp language, that makes him boss

funny stuff :) (meaning your mini-convo with tyler)

The Talamud is the Jewish equivalent of the New Testament. Read real Jewish history. Read Josephus, who was a historian, not a defender of a particular religion. You read with your own voice, from the Talamud, that Jesus was hanged, then say that Jesus was stoned. Your credibility vanishes within moments of the beginning of your talk.

@Kruppes_Mule

10 жыл бұрын

He addresses this in other talks and books. He can't cover every little thing you can come up with in less than an hour.

I didn't listen to the whole video but I heard enough. I laughed at the part where he said "Jesus became a God" That was so funny because Jesus is actually God himself. Anyway I really like the fact that this guy is really trying to dis the existence of Jesus Christ because he reads the Bible out loud to those that don't believe which is OUTSTANDING!!! because I believe eventually some nonbelievers would start to believe or star to read Gods Word. if I didn't believe or thought that something really wasn't true I sure wouldn't read books or transcripts by those that believe it. I don't believe in allah and try to prove that it's pure silliness and to read the Quran out loud to prove it. This guy sounds like a young preacher I hope he keeps it up because he will soon start to believe and might become one of God's greatest ministers of the Word of God. :) Keep reading the Bible out loud!!! Praise God!!!

@xerox1959

9 жыл бұрын

Jesus is God himself? So that means:John 3:16 16 For Jesus so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.? He gave himself, to himself? And he made his own mother (Mary) pregnant by himself? But that is incest!

@BigS7743

9 жыл бұрын

Your trying to put God in the form of man. If that is the case everyone is doing incest ...lol He man us all. God Is a Triune God. God The Father God The Son, God The Holy Ghost or Spirit. No one on or no thing on earth was righteous enough to forgive us of our sins except God or really to cleanse us from our sins to make us holy before Him, so he sent his Son Jesus. If you send something that means it's already complete. Jesus is God's love so basically "God sent his love in the form of a child to become a man " God stepped out of heaven to show us how to live. So if you read Genesis God said "LET US" "make man in our own image". So who was God speaking to? Angels? no becase the bible tells how angels look. Read the book of Matt. if you want to find out more of what I'm saying.

@xerox1959

9 жыл бұрын

"god" should take some good medication and find help in mental health care.

@BigS7743

9 жыл бұрын

???

@SuperSaltydog77

9 жыл бұрын

I just happen to be an atheist but I do believe that Jesus did actually exist. Jesus of Nazareth probably was a carpenter.As you know he believed he was the son of your god. Not actually the son but figuratively. In some religions he is believed to be your god himself that manifested himself as this Jesus.I do not believe this is true for 2 reasons (1) I don't believe your god exists and (2) when he was being crucified on the cross he supposedly said "Oh father, why have you forsaken me? If he was god then why did he ask that question knowing that he was god? The bible is simply a collection of stories and letters that helped people make it through a very difficult life. No doctors, no dentists, a simple cut that became infected could and often did end your life. Jesus did want to help people,sort of like a social worker who thought people working together and helping one another was good "for the soul"If you do good things for people then you would be rewarded with everlasting life. Not in a heaven but in the hearts and minds of people who would pass down stories from generation to generation.That is the everlasting life they were speaking of.

So all these these came together through the power of nature? That's pretty amazing

I like this guy.

43:00 Why did you cut out there!? I really wanted to hear his response...

The idea of a scapegoat is that you can ritually load your sins onto a creature (traditionally a goat), and then, by killing it, it has taken your sins away. This is absurd on many levels. For one thing, you cannot transfer guilt from one to another. If you did something bad, you alone carry the guilt and the blame. For another thing, why does there need to be death for there to be forgiveness? It's one thing to load your sins onto the goat, it's another to have to kill it.

This guy is spot on with listing the many Bible Difficulties they are not controversial because any serious reading of the New Testament will reveal them.

50:00 - Jennifer Michael Hecht's Doubt: A History - A great book imo.

"making up stories about Jesus not existing". That quote is utterly hilarious.

Since you know so much, like how they sit, who God bless and so on, I'm just curious, what are they sitting in, is it chairs above the clouds? Are God and Jesus different persons today?

I am perplexed...I was an atheist in my youth and in my teens... At 21 I had a panic attack and back then there wasn't much info on them... I thought I was having a heart attack and ended up in the emergency room and kept getting them really severe for the next 20 years....after that first one out of fear i starting studying the Bible and praying to Jesus and god.... I was consumed with Bible study and listened to christian radio preachers non stop...I read the bible through many times... I was born again and sanctified in the blood... ( Sounds like a statement of horror to me now!) And on my way to heaven and eternal life... But then i started going to church..... I slowly began to see everyone in every church I went to was full of shit ... I saw more manipulation, liars, sexual deviance, fake smiles, and repressed hate...I found more compassion and honesty when I was in my 20s hanging out in a bar I thought!!!???...As I got into my 50s in age I began to think about the the things I had studied in the bible for all those years that were hard for me to believe in but was told not to ever question like the "virgin birth" and that superman Sampson guy breaking 7 new ropes like wax in fire, talking donkeys and snakes, zombies walking the streets, the weird necromancer powers of Jesus, his walking on water feat, god who is "love" drowning everyone in the whole earth but 8 people and we are supposedly the off spring of these incestuous bouts of sex, burning bushes that don't burn up, 3 Hebrew children thrown into a furnace that don't get burned, guys blowing their load on the ground and god is so pissed he kills the dude, people selling their own land and keeping the money fall over dead because God wanted that money... And so on....just pure bullshit... I didn't believe it when I read it the first time and don't believe it now.... But I have issues with things like ghosts and hauntings, UFOs, bigfoot sightings, chupucabra, fairys, reptilian humanoids, poltergeist, men in black, black eyes children, time slips, dimensional portals, and so on... I have personally experienced a few of the afore mentioned and I am at a fucking loss ..... Why is there such polarity of good and bad.... pleasure and pain,... Hot and cold... Sugar and salt... Wet and dry... Fast and slow... Etc..????? I am totally agnostic about everything... I feel like I can't believe a shred of truth about anything!?? People are horrible!??... Hate, war, disease, race, anger, murder, crime,liars, gossiping, fighting, greed, and so on.... If there's a god... He's and asshole at best and doesn't give to shits about us... I'm sorry... I would love for there to be a caring loving father figure... But I just can't see it...if we are made in gods. Image then why aren't we invisible??? If god is our father what the hell did he do with our mother???? I am so confused about the high strangeness of this planet I could just shit my pants and roll over dead...am I the only one here????? Anyone else understand what I'm saying!!! CAN U DIG IT!!!?????

@sethflores1680

2 жыл бұрын

You said that you have read the Bible several times. If that's the case then you must be familiar with the life of Job. The book of Job can be found in the OT. I'm very interested to know what you think of that story. Perhaps an understanding of that book may give you a more brighter outlook on life. But I would really like your feedback.

@rambo8218

2 жыл бұрын

@@sethflores1680 The book of Job was horrible I thought when I first read it... God allows Satan to kill jobs 8 children...cover him in painful boils ...his friends all shit on him .. Takes all of his wealth... Have his wife turn on him and all over a bet.... Doesn't sound like a loving father protecting his child from horror and pain.... Even though the end says he got back his wealth 10 fold....his children were worth way more than his riches.

The Titanic went down, but it is still around, on it's decks , no one is now walking, but about the ship, we are all still talking.

Yep

At 44 mins I'm pretty sure that's Dan Barker lol.

Almost every carving from Pharaoh time has ring and cross, later developed to every Christians has his cross with him.... Amazing. !!! Sun and stars were sacred in communities all over the world, new culture started spreading God, prophets and angels.. More than one thousand prophets, no one in China or Russia..how ?

1) Pliny was born in 61AD, and di not write this passage until the second century, nearly 100 years after Jesus allegedly. He cannot possibly be an eyewitness to Jesus. 2) The passage he writes does not even claim to vouch for the existence of such a person as Christ. It merely mentions people worshipping or cursing Christ. If he had spoken of people worshipping and cursing Zeus, but would that have implied Zeus was real? In all it holds practically no water as evidence for Jesus.

who cares if a hippie lived 2000yrs ago or not? even such a lazy guy who didnt give a damn helping out in his fathers workshop, but rather hang around with some suspicious guys, debating bullshit, instead of pickin up a girl to raise a family and stayin mentally healthy by doing so... good luck to those who need religion,.

Wow a very strange thing happened around 43:20. Why it was edited out? I think it is a perfectly valid question. The question is something like "Why don't most scholars agree to Christina mythicism?" and the answer is edited out or something happened in the process.. Did Carrier answered it inappropriately and was edited out? Did I just hear a "F" word? How could someone use such a word at a public talk? Anyways, can anyone answer the question for me?

@leesangyoon11

10 жыл бұрын

Not sure whether the editing was intentional or not. But I would like to hear his answer to the question. Can anybody who attended this talk please quote what he said. I once heard Carrier saying that some work of mythicists are not scholarly. I want to know whether he puts that in his answer. I am not against mythicism but some mythicists tend to take scholarship lightly and that makes their accounts less convincing and persuasive. Please read "Did Jesus Exist" by Bart Ehrman, Chapter 1.

the cameraman/woman (at Missouri State) was possessed by a demon--Jesus, move it smoothly, I was getting dizzy.

Where Richard Carrier answered the attendee's question about whether Romans crucified Jesus on a cross or a stick, and Richard said the greek stauros meant stick; the Latin crux also meant stick. And the ancient Latin writings don't give sufficient context whether crux meant the larger pole with or without crossarm, an impaling stake, or an outrigged spike that the Romans commonly attached to the larger pole where, when the suspended person slumped down, the spike crucified him by penetration.

Mixing faith with ignorance is like mixing water with dihydrogen monoxide.

The James passage in Josephus's antiquities 20.9 "The brother of Jesus,who was called Christ,whose name was James".This is interpolation using Matthew 1:16 "Who is called Christ".In 20.9.4 of antiquities Josephus writes "James is brother of Jesus Bar Damneus". Earl Doherty (Bachelor's Degree ~ Ancient History and Classical Languages. Author of 'The Jesus Puzzle')"A good case can be made for saying that Josephus wrote nothing about Jesus and was probably unaware of any such figure."

I've listened to this I can't count how many times and I just noticed the pun in "Heaven Knows" near 8:30.

Is God willing to stop evil, but unable? Then he is not powerful. Is he able but unwilling? Then he is not good. Is he both able and willing? Then how can there be evil? If he is neither willing or able, Then why call him god? Epicuris 300 BC

You might talk to Jesus, but does Jesus talk back?

Pilate washed his hands, not likely to pursue disciples.

If you pay attention to the context, you'll see that it's in reference specifically to the stories of Jesus in the bible. He's not saying that there was never any other man named Jesus. He's saying the different "portraits" that appear of Jesus in various books of the Bible (which he cites) are referring to the same person. The host suggested that different Jewish sects were referring to different people, who all happened to be named Jesus - their stories are in the Bible as if it were 1 person.

Witch part in the bible announces the time for the return of Jesus? Some have paraphrased "within a life time", but I cannot find that part in the bible.

If I wrote a story about a president of the US named Lincoln who was born in a log cabin, fought vampires and zombies, freed the slaves, was shot in the head at a theater and died, then came back to life and was seen by many people, and then disappeared, his body never to be found, am I talking about an historical Lincoln?

I can read a science book on how those things happen but there isn't one that definitely tells me how everything came to be and why. If there were that would be really great

What all these teachings lead to is meditation and that the kingdom is w/in not a physical church. When you meditate is when you realize you are part of God. God promises that if you will seek Him, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart

Churchfather St. Jerome wrote about 390 A.D. a letter to Paulinus: "......Even my own Bethlehem, as it now is, that most venerable spot in the whole world of which the psalmist sings: "the truth hath sprung out of the earth," was overshadowed by a grove of Tammuz, that is of Adonis; and in the very cave where the infant Christ had uttered His earliest cry lamentation was made for the paramour of Venus." WHAT A COINCEDENCE!!!!

I have a suggestion, on your next presentation reproduce the shroud of Turin and explain how you did it...because so far after being the most scientifically studied artifact in human history no one has been able to explain how the image was produced, except for possibly an atomic laser, which doesn't exist now.

@voxpopuli348

Жыл бұрын

Untrue . Leonardo faked it using thd camera obscura tecnique. Read the book.

43:16 - Why is it edited here? Why has his explanation for why historians are resistant to this mythic Jesus idea been cut out of this video?

And while we are at it, its amazing that Carrier just makes assertion after assertion as if they are facts and that they constitute an "argument".

@jamiecullum5567

3 жыл бұрын

What like the bible

he is still on the fence about that..

These are signs in the conscience of the mind you can't take a picture of things like that is a supernatural work.

lol Richard Carrier is funny :3

This video is standup comedy, nothing else.

At 43:30, Carrier is about to answer the question "Why do most scholars accept that Jesus was a historical figure in light of this evidence?" and the editor cuts to his response to the next question. OH COME ON!!! Is this censorship? It's totally unwarranted. Even if Jesus existed, that doesn't invalidate naturalism, nor does it invalidate Carrier's arguments. It just makes him an unremarkable, failed revolutionary who lent his name to a burgeoning religious movement.

@XalphYT

6 жыл бұрын

Mjolnir Pants The question that leads to that rough and obvious edit job starts at 42:25. Yeah, I wish we got to hear the answer too.

Swearing in a public lecture doesn't make you sound edgy, it makes you sound like you're trying to be edgy.

Most scholarship believes that Josephus' mention of Jesus was tempered with by later copiers, but not that it was completely fabricated.

"...if you have a properly historical approach to, for example, the gospels of the New Testament, you realize fairly quickly that these are based on earlier written accounts, and that those earlier written accounts were based on oral tradition that go back even earlier...Paul's writings were 20 years after Jesus’ life, but Paul himself converted to be a follower of Jesus within a year or two at the latest of Jesus’ death" - Bart Ehrman (the jews were an oral culture...not a newspaper culture)

lol that was funny

As a MSU alum and Springfield resident I don't know how other than divine intervention he got invited, in and especially out of Springfield MO. That he came is evidence that god has a sense of humor.....

I didn't know Chinese had a flood story...wow.

If you are really interested in evidence against your assertion Jesus was a conglomerate, in addition to the books on historiography and the historical method, I also recommend "Bandits Prophets and Messiahs: Popular Movements at the Time of Jesus" by Richard Horsley.

yes. and i can tell you the circumstances that aligned material with immaterial and i still would never be able to prove it. and you know what-we're both going to the grave. a little pascale's wager here (but this is not my basis) - im either going to God when i die, or i'm going to dirt (in which case-so what? the joy i have (predicated on questions with satisfactory answers) surpasses all understanding regardless of circumstance. and so i will happily become soil for the next generation...