I applied Carbon Method to my table saw three months ago. Prior to that I was constantly fighting with surface rust (though waxed weekly) due to the humidity in Illinois. Since applying Carbon Method's 10H I have seen zero rust.

We need Project Farm to do some tests! :D

Once again you show why Spag rules. Candor, honesty, and a commitment to your audience. Thanks, Marc.

Nice piece Marc. Rain is particularly aggressive. As the raindrops fall they become saturated, or even supersaturated with carbon dioxide and oxygen. As you mentioned oxygen is required for corrosion to occurs. To measure acidity, we chemists use a scale called pH. The lower the pH the more acidic, the higher the pH the more caustic/alkaline, and neutral is a pH of 7. Adding CO2 to the water makes it acidic as the carbon dioxide forms carbonic acid in the water drops. Normal rainwater, absent smokestack nasties, has a pH of about 5.6, so that appears just a little less than 7. However, pH is what is called a logarithmic scale based on powers of 10. That means plain old rain water is 10 to the 1.4 power more acidic than neutral water or 25 times more acidic. I did my career fighting rust, and trust me that corrosion-wise rain or those dew drops on a rose are corrosion thugs and iron or steel exposed to either needs protection!

@philippalmer7814

Жыл бұрын

Particularly in cities with high concentration of air pollution. The reason the wax only method still resulted in rust is that natural waxes contain high concentrations of acids.

@bobbg9041

Жыл бұрын

No wonder we have weeds, the higher the ph in soil the more weeds will grow, soil ph should be about 5ph for a healthy lawn, so you put down lime to neutralize the acid in the soils its slow to react but its enough to do the job you can also put down ash to lower soil ph. But its really fast reacting thats why a field thats been in a fire comes back really green. I forget what metal coating they put on printing press cylinders to stop rust but it works mostly mainly the blanket and plate cylinders becuse they use a ph of about 7 to wash the plates with I think if I remember the ph should be 6.7 its been 30 years.

I bought my new SawStop at the start of this year. I cleaned the grease and applied multiple coats of paste wax immediately. Within a couple of months and light use, I started getting rust no matter how much I maintained it. After your first video Marc I picked up the 2-3 tool package of Carbon Method and coated all of my cast iron. Haven’t seen any rust yet and I’m working out of my attached garage that gets opened multiple times a day in all weather. I’m definitely a believer so thank you!

@hotroddreams3130

2 ай бұрын

After a year how is Carbon Method holding up? Thanks.

@Dtoaster

2 ай бұрын

It’s held up really well with no major complaints! Over the winter, during a rainstorm I got some droplets on the table that I wasn’t aware of for a few days. Once I cleaned it up there were a some discoloration spots but didn’t turn to rust. My belt sander table still looks like new. I’ve hit them with the glide coat 1-2 times as needed. We’ll see in another year if I need to reapply but overall it’s been nearly zero maintenance. I used the saw a couple dozen times both with hard woods and plywood. Hope that helps.

Coincidentally I bought a brand new Sawstop when you did the original test application and applied the Carbon Method to mine as well. I live in southeast Alabama and it is very hot and humid. I fought rust non stop on my previous Grizzly TS and other cast iron equipment. My new Sawstop looks AMAZING still. I can’t recommend Carbon Method enough, it is AWESOME and absolutely works. Make sure you watch their video on how to apply it and follow it to the letter. I put it on my planer/jointer and my band saw as well and they’re still looking perfect. Completely worth every penny to protect such an expensive investment. And yes, the the people at Carbon Method are extremely nice and very professional, great customer service.

@arnsworth

Жыл бұрын

My new Sawstop came with a rust colored wax paper on it. My heart stopped for the moments it took me to realize it was indeed wax paper, and not a brand new totally rusted cast iron surface.

This is why I have trusted your reviews for so many years. Thanks for the deep dive.

Always respect your honesty when it comes to these things, thanks Marc!

Marc, I for one have always admired the open, forthright attitude you have about product endorsements. We all see how much effort you put into avoiding bias in your endorsements. Thanks!

My SawStop table saw and Grizzly tools lived in a pole shed for 6yrs in between moves and with indoor rain plus extreme temperature swings in North Central Wisc, I've found the only thing to help control and nearly eliminate all surface rust was a thorough cleaning with rust remover and 0000 steel pad followed by a coating of Jet Seal automotive protection from Chemical Guys. Then using an clean bed sheet cover that and completely cover and surround with stretch wrap to make a good moisture barrier. This beat those expensive anti rust covers hands down. I've tried them all. But my method after a couple years of getting sad and spending hours of removing rust on all my tools worked best to keep them 99% rust free! Luckily I've since moved into a nicer garage upper level and after one final shining up with fine sand paper and steel wool and another coating of jet seal, I haven't had to touch them in 2yrs now even with higher humidity up to 90F in the work shop area. I never even cover the tools now.

@donsundberg5730

Жыл бұрын

Indoor rain is the worst! Indoor freezing rain caused by the condensation that froze to the bottom of the uninsulated part of the shop getting warmed up enough to melt the ice and rain all over your tools (and freeze). Cardboard sheets were my friend for a while. I finally got the whole shop spray foamed and have had no issues since.

Thank you for always being honest and being upfront with your reviews

I can really appreciate how unbiased and objective this video is, especially since you revisited the product after the “i got THE newest and greatest stuff!” honeymoon feeling has passed. So many people give skewed reviews because they paid good money for something theyve been told is great by so many people…

Thank you Marc. I left some damp wood on my table top and about cried when I moved it the next day. I am sure it is more surface rust, but your in depth research and your willingness to share are much appreciated.

So glad you reviewed this, I've seen a few ads by them that seemed a bit like "snake-oil" for treating all types of products other than tools. However, your review has convinced me that it works for what most of us would want to use it for, protecting our cast iron. Thanks for taking the time to do it!

Thank you for posting the update with the additional info. It clarified exactly why I've been having so much trouble here in TN... And now I realize... I'm just fighting a losing battle with rust.

Always appreciate how thorough you are dude

I live in deep south Texas 100% humidity all the time. I’ve been using T-9 for about a year now and It’s been doing really well for my machinery, what I really like about it is that it’s also a lubricant, so, for example I can spray the quills on my lathes and it protects and lubricates at the same time. I’ll have to check out carbon method, never heard of it. Thanks for sharing.

Good to hear it held up like it did. Thanks for explaining it so well.

Just here to say I thoroughly enjoy your videos when they come up I get excited. Thank you

Thanks for a very informative video. My shop is in north east Kansas, surely identical climate as yours in Missouri. I only use paste wax on the surfaces of my cast iron machinery and have no issues with surface rust. But, I run a dehumidifier in my 1500 square foot shop from April through September. Thirty years ago surface rust was a problem before I started running a dehumidifier. Over those 30+ years I have gone through four dehumidifiers, they seem to only last 4-5 years. The dehumidifier protects my machinery, my hand planes, chisels and measuring tools from any signs of rust. Also, the lumber stored in the shop is protected from the high humidity common to this area. Using a simple pedestal fan combined with the low humidity it is pretty comfortable while working in the shop.

A sure-fire way to induce this rust is to leave a freshly cut log (bowl blank) standing on the end grain on your table saw and leave it there for a week or so. Don’t ask me how I know.

@hfxpro

Жыл бұрын

You also give a hood reason of why it is a good habit to clean the sawdust off your tools after working if it will be more then a few days.

@mrbenburns

8 ай бұрын

Oof. Same. I learned this today.

@kenco7560

6 ай бұрын

I’ve heard a walnut log will leave rust too!

This is terrific! Thank you for your honesty, candor, and integrity. It’s great to see a maker who gives us the whole story and is willing to go the extra mile to give us accurate info. Kudos to you, Marc! 👍🏼

@woodwhisperer

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

Fantastic testing, Marc! Thanks a bunch! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

Good video, and it's good to know they were there to help. I have a test running on 3 tools, but of course I don't have your humidity. 😅

Nice test process, Marc. This stuff definitely looks like a contender for cast iron protection. Thanks for following thru on this~! BTW, I saw another KZreadr using CarbonMethod as a finish on a wood project (surprise~!) and it produced a pretty nice looking result. Apparently it's multi-talented~!

Science! Love it, thanks Marc. Rust is always a pain in humid areas, like mine..

Great video. I learn a lot watching them. I do have to watch out for rust in my shop and your test was great. I may try the Carbon Method system as well. Thanks again.

I went with Carbon Method based on your first video and have loved it. Much better than Glidecoat. Thanks for the validation that your hunch and my jumping in based on your hunch was the right answer.

Content is looking good in the new shop! 🎉

Thank you. Been looking for something really good to put on my tools. Looks like I have found something that will work.

Glad to hear it worked out and you got to the bottom of the performance of the product. Love the goonies/cypress hill ending.

CRC SP-350 Corrosion Inhibitor came out on top in a 20-product competition published by Fine Woodworking Magazine Aug 2012. Been using it ever since. Superior product, priced well, readily available.

Just discovered your channel. Love it! I'm not a professional wood worker, just a hobbyist but have been for 30 plus years. I've always used TriFlo on my table saw. I'm sure this is either going to be bocked at or maybe all you seasoned wood workers out there will say "wow, I never thought of that". I work in industrial maintenance and know welding and quite a bit about metals in general. I know that cast iron is porous so here's my take on the use of TriFlow on my table. TriFlo contains telflon. This teflon will be absorbed into the cast iron and stay there for quite some time, not for ever though. I usually treat my table a couple times a year. I might also mention that my saw has spent much of it's life out doors under an awning and my treatment works quite well to prevent rust unless it gets water directly on it. My procedure is this: I spray the entire table down generously with TriFlo. I scrub it in with some fine sand paper. This makes a dirty, dark mess. I then use paper towels to clean off this mess. I follow this up with more TriFlo scrubbing with clean paper towels. I rinse, repeat until my paper towels are clean. This assures you will not leave dirty, oily marks on wood you slide across the table. This leaves my table saw clean, shiny and very slippery which makes wood slide very nicely. I also wipe the face of my fence and all the moving parts with TriFlo as well. Makes everything work silky smooth.

We are now part of Carbon Method’s affiliate program which means if you purchase their products using our link, we get a small kickback. You can also use the code SpagCoat for 10% off at checkout. Click Here: carbonmethod.com/?ref=mjguvwfm

@JimAbbruzzese

Жыл бұрын

Done! This might be my most anticipated guild project. A Danish cord bench has been high on my list for a while now.

@SteifWood

Жыл бұрын

T9's advantage is that it also works as a non-stick lubricant on the gears and pinions inside the saw,,, I'm very pleased with it, even on iron tools permanently stationed in a somewhat damp garage ...

Thanks for the info. In NC humidity is my only problem so I think it will work great for my shop

I have to say I just love you and your channel. You know in that manly sort of way.

I have a table saw in a garage in steamy Central Florida. I applied Carbon Method as paste wax was not doing the job. It appears to be working for me so far. Good update and further testing.

I'm going to have to give that product a try. I live about 40 miles south of you and my shop is open to the outdoor air. I've lived and worked outdoors in Missouri all my life..I've acclimated. Anyway, all of my tools always have a thin film of rust on them that I'm constantly cleaning off. Wax doesn't seem to do a thing. The worst part is the rust that gets on the Lie-Nielsen planes. I've shed more than one tear in my bourbon over that. Anyway, thanks for the recommendation.

Great video. I'm already liking the company giving you free reign to blast them, if need be, by standing by their product. Plus, doing extra tests based off your recommendations. Makes me think of Tommy Boy, the warranty scene.

Well done and very informative!

Thanks for all the information

Thanks for the update. I have a very old table saw that seems to have rust appear even with no exposure to water. Looks like I’ll be looking into getting some Carbon Method.

Glad to see this. I ordered a carbon method kit after seeing your first video… I just haven’t gotten around to using it yet.

Thanks Marc - good information

Thanks for the nice review and followup. Given the cost of Carbon Method I decided I would try Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating at 1/4 the cost on my new Sawstop. Cleaned with mineral spirits and coated everything and a couple coats on the cast top. Not sure how long it will last but super slick right now. Very easy to apply as well.

I live in Houston and we have to deal with high humidity. Always used T9 before. Had an idea to use an inexpensive ceramic coating (Turtle wax) about a year ago. I'm convinced this is the way to go. Every blue moon, when I think about it, I'll just quickly reapply. Takes 2-seconds. I was interested in the carbon until I saw the laborious process to apply. Try ceramic coating. Works great and super easy to apply. Clean and degrease cast iron first.

@mefirst4266

Жыл бұрын

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE CERAMIC COATINGS FOR CARS ??? OR WHERE DO I GET IT ??

Great follow up. I love me some spag science.

I had some rust form on my table saw from lack of use - almost 2 years. What I did was spray a good coat of WD-40 on it and let it sit for almost 2 weeks. I then wiped it off with a rag and then sanded it using 220 grit sandpaper on my palm sander. It took awhile but it eventually took all the rust away and left my top looking like it did when it was brand new. Worked for me. 😁

I use T9 on my cast iron machine tops. One day I opened the overhead door in my two car garage shop after a driving rain and water dripped off the door sections onto my jointer/planer. The trouble is I didn't notice this happened for a few days after the event so rust developed. I used the T9 cleaner with a scrubby pad and recoated with the T9 protectant. All seems to be good so T9 is fine for ambient air moisture but not standing water. I live in very humid Southeastern North Carolina. Once I run out of the T9 I will try the Carbon Method product.

Spag: “Now there will be, potentially more tests … I don’t know that that’s necessarily something for *me* to do, it’s certainly something you could investigate.” Some of these comments: “I’d be interested in seeing you re-do the test except change X, Y, or Z.”

If it sat in a garage (MO humidity no less) and that's all that happened? That's incredible. I'll definitely pick up a set. TY

Been waiting on this follow up!

Even with the initial unwrapping I think it still did a great job this product definitely passed very nice stuff.

Great info! thanks!

Considering how long they sat in storage after being in light rain I would say it did a pretty good job. I have been using Glide coat on my SawStop for about 5 years here in Texas and haven't had a problem with rust here since I started using it. I did have problems with wax, and CRC 3 36. The Glide coat has out done both of those.

@DaveEtchells

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for that note! I just went to check out the carbon coat product, but their website isn’t responding. If they’re gone, I’ll pick up some Glide Coat!

Coincidently, I ended up needing to pack up my shop to move a few weeks after Marc announced his move. Based upon his initial suggestion, I applied Carbon Method to all my tools. I then put moving blankets over everything and moved my tools into a garage for storage. 5 months then passed and I just unpacked everything this weekend and I can happily say not a spot of rust anywhere. Carbon Method seemed to have done its job. Just to further support this product, I live in Washington state in the Pacific Northwest, so it is a pretty humid area. The last few months were actually pretty dry, but we did have some rain in the past month and the garage was opened and closed every day as a wet vehicle was driven in and out.

Marc - Great update, very well done. Does the Carbon Coat provide the kind of lubricity that one would expect when when using some of the other methods ?

Marc, Thank you for all your testing on camera with the results. With your test results and comments also backed up by several other woodworkers, I will be purchasing the Carbon Coat method kit. Now the question is by applying a coat of paste wax on top of the carbon coat would you get any additional protection. I know it's hard to improve on perfection which is maybe as you would get with Carbon Coat but I'm thinking since metal is somewhat porous Carbon Coat pretty much does a fantastic job of filling in the pores and covering but if a coat of wax might slightly improve that even more. Could be that it is not worth the trouble to wax as the wax would just wear off quicker.

This would be a great segment for Project Farm to dig deeper!

Good to know. I need to do better about protecting my tools. I am in Southern Indiana and it does get quite humid here.

Nicely Done Great Job 📝📐🪚🔨

Love your work and your videos! I’m writing you which is a year after this video was produced. Can you tell me how your tools are holding up with the Carbon coat?? Chris

I’ve had good luck spraying cast iron with shellac. Have done any spags science but table saw sat out in garage for a couple years with a furniture pad on top to protect and didn’t see rust.

I am in N.E. Missouri also. Yes we have times through the year the shop will need a dehumidifier & some kind of metal protectant. I made a BIG oops when I used my HVLP sprayer with water base polyurethane. A lot of the tools hanging on the wall had rust on them the next morning. Yes I had the exhaust fan on but I shut it off too soon I guess.

I live in Michigan. Tons of humidity in my metal pole barn. The best I have found is a product called Fluid Film. Spray it on, wipe off excess. Done! My jointer table slides awesome and my 15 inch grizzly planer gets no more rust.

Spag!! You son of a... wait that stuff worked great! I live in a temperate rain forest in Juneau AK. With a Labrador retriever that likes to shake off near the table saw after chasing a frisbee in the rain. A lot. And it rains here.. A Lot and we're high humidity. No rust spots on mine. I did the entire prep and sanding process with for doing the Carbon Method and my table saw still feels "like butter" in smoothness on top. Highly recommend. Much better than wax in feel and performance when breaking down a couple of sheets of 4x8 3/4" plywood over the weekend. Sled moves lots easier as well.

Are you going to do a follow up sometime soon on how it goes with actual usage? I bought some for my sawstop and it definitely works better for pure rust prevention however my experience with usage is completely different. I've found that once your cast iron gets dirty from use and needs to be cleaned that you disrupt that lower layer when you clean it, meaning I would much rather a cheaper product that I just apply more regularly as I have to clean the top regularly anyway

I’d second all the comments that would love to see how you fix/rehab both the table saw and the drill press table. That’s the scenario all of us southern woodworkers have to deal with!

Great bong impression! Lol

Could have used this 20 years ago when I moved to a humid state. Now I need to do Hand Tool Rescue to them all.

I did mine about 4 months ago, and so far so good. Of course there’s no rain in my shop. 😅

Thanks for the follow up, I appreciate the transparency. I know you paid for the product with a video and attached your good name to it, so your disappointment is very real, and I can 'feel' that. Obviously cast iron should never have standing water droplets on it, but sometimes it happens and when it does in my shop (and I suspect many more) it is in the form of a sweat droplet that goes unnoticed and sits overnight or even days before being discovered. Since Carbon Method failed the real-world rain droplet test I have no confidence it would protect cast iron from a droplet of sweat. If the application of Carbon Method was a one-off event the price could be rationalized, but reapplication after fixing rust spots is too much.

I was about to start the same test as you did. I might still do it. Have an extra cast iron extension wing and want to see how it will do in NJ. How many coats did you apply? Dan recommended I do 4 and I did 4. Also I would like to know how much cabron coat material you will go through to do all your tools? Defintely not cheap. I did my full cast iron 36" PCS with router wing and i have half a bottle of coat left, ran out of clense and application pads and towels. I did get the bigger quick start package

Thanks for the testing and info. Do you know if they have any opinion about putting a wax on top of their product? That could be an inexpensive secondary layer to prolong the life of their product finish by creating a small film barrier between the actual surface and materials you push over it. Kind of like how car detailers will put a ceramic coat on a car's paint and then periodically put another product on top of that to prolong the much more expensive and time-consuming ceramic coat. I suppose also applying wax could defeat the purpose, but after seeing how wax alone performed, I wouldn't want to use it by itself anyway if I were in a high humidity shop.

A dehumidifier in the shop is a big help. I run the hose out the back of the unit to drain out by the garage door or else I'd be emptying it 3 times a day in the summer.

I don't really mind having to give the surfaces a little TLC every few months. It serves as a reminder that I need to check them for accuracy as well. Never really had big problems occuring with just a wax coating, though I just put a thick coat on without wiping it off after I use a machine that only gets used a few times a year.

@ayellowbeard

Жыл бұрын

I only have a small space heater and two fans to circulate the air in my shop to try and keep if above freezing over winter and even so I still get rust on my Sawstop and bandsaw even when applying a thick coat of JPW AND covering with magnetic table top covers. As a result I'm really interested in anything that can help me better protect my tools year around.

Good video. Thanks Marc!!!! If you do another video......can you add the Stabil Rust Stopper and WD40 Corrosion inhibitor?

Great review. Can't fault the science. The mysterious well water stain maybe due to residual iron or minerals or salt from a softener. Barring that, it was shop Gremlins.

I use ACF-50 on some tools - learned about it from use on motorcycles, which I submerge in mud puddles a few times each year. It smells like WD40, but actually seems to work. Would still need a wax or carbon coat to lower friction.

Marc, show us how you would clean these surfaces. Please include the drill press.

I am surprised that a proper coat of wax still leaves steel so vulnerable to rust. It would be good if you could also test the carbon method product durability Marc. And finally the composition of the metal is a factor. For instance, my Sawstop tarnishes surprisingly quickly.

Great video.

There are many auto detailing channels which have reviewed graphine coatings (for different benefits) and they largely come to the conclusion that they are a marketing product. While great on paper, graphine is a very hard substance, they bring little actual protection that the substrate is not already providing. Ceramic coatings (a common substrate for graphine) usually offers the same protection and a slightly slicker top surface. While there are probably better or less expensive products this might be a good choice for some.

even though humidity can be a problem in nz, my biggest problem is when i drop bead of sweat on the top of tools and not notice. next day i have a lovely rust spot.

Not for rust protection but what are your thoughts on using cc on the bottoms of planes to eliminate the friction ?

I'm just here for Marc's hips swinging back and forth like a grandfather clock

Does the Carbon Coat modify friction on the tools? I always found automotive wax to be a benefit for rust inhibiting and reducing friction on table saws and the jointer.

How would you clean/prepare for carbon method? I have old and new tools (one brand new still has grease on it)

Have ya ever tried a spray product called fluid film? I've been using it for years on all my cast iron.

I haven't seen anyone (may have missed such) do an update to Fine Woodworking's article in the July/August 2012, beginning page 30, testing 20 different rust preventer products on cast iron. As the photos showed, and the article confirmed, CRC 3-36 turned out to be the best choice, and was one of the least expensive. I have been using it since with no rust on my table saw. Due to a move, it sat unused for a year in a northern state, followed by 3 years in an out building in a southern state. No rust. Just now getting back to using it.

Thank you

The only coating I've used on a variety of cast iron tools is Slip-It. I used the spray bottle. 14 year old Delta table saw - no rust. I just wipe down the surface after a day of use.

Please do a video on how you do rust repair to get a new/as good as new surface.

@DayneFirth

Жыл бұрын

Please!

@johndoe6032

Жыл бұрын

I think he talked about it in the first video. I think James Hamilton also has a video on that subject (and everything else woodworking related)

@woodwhisperer

Жыл бұрын

That is the plan! :)

Marc, I just got some carbon method, any tips after some lessons learned on your end?

Have you, or do you plan to, use their wood protection product?

A genius!!

Good video...

After struggling with rust issues for ~20 years and trying all sorts of prevention methods, IMO the only fool proof approach is to control the temperature and humidity in your shop to ensure that the surface temperature of your tools never drops below the dew point. The best thing I ever did in my old shop was to spend money on insulation. Then it didn't cost much in heating costs to always keep the temperature above 50F, which even in the 90% RH climate was enough to prevent rust. In the semi-arid desert climate I live in now, that's not something I need to worry much about. Wood is a lot more stable, too.😉

@The Wood Whisperer Thanks for sharing an update! I’d been considering Carbon Method to prevent rust so your update is helpful. What about hand tool rust prevention and maintenance, any advice or instruction?

@chanel45151

Жыл бұрын

One idea I saw, for tools in drawers at least, is to use those silica absorbing packs. Can't remember channel. Also worth thinking of dehumidification. If can get below 60%, ideally 50%, could def keep under control I think.

Having been about a year since this video was posted, I’m just curious if you have any additional observations to share about the coated tool after frequent use.