I have a written a new short story in Latin! with drammatically acted audiobook. Check it out: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/fabula-anatina-a-duckish-tale-in-latin 🦆 It's a children's book about the odyssey of a duckling who wants to learn how to fly.

@shaynewheeler9249

2 жыл бұрын

Roman numerals

@canela1220

Жыл бұрын

Greetings from France. Small correction, America is One continent, not two. And it is divided in three parts, North, Central and South.

But then why is there a greek myth about sunflowers if they're from the Americas? Edit: I looked it up and found that in the original myth, it didn't refer to sunflowers, but turnsoles and it got replaced with sunflowers due to the french word "tournesol" originally only referring to sunflowers, so, it's a modern-ish substitution

@michaelheliotis5279

2 жыл бұрын

If you're referring to the myth about the oceanid Clytie, that flower is not actually a sunflower but rather a heliotrope, with this word being pretty much a transliteration of the Ancient Greek name ἡλιοτρόπιον. Like the sunflower, the heliotrope supposedly turns to face the sun (hence its name literally comes from the Greek words for "sun" and "turn"), though in both cases this turning seems to be just an urban legend (albeit one evidently derived from Classical myth). The confusion of the two flowers probably arises because although the archaic English word "turnsole" refers to and presumably translates from heliotrope, the equivalent word in French is _tournesol_ which primarily refers to the sunflower. At some point, English has switched to using an Anglicised rendering of the Greek name, possibly to avoid confusion with the divergent French word, but the historic use of turnsole in older texts has probably resulted in the propagation of "sunflower" for the English version of the myth by readers who were were only familiar with the ostensibly but falsely synonymous French word (because before the 20th Century, most people with a decent education in England could also speak French). Alternatively, modern publishers just thought that nobody would know what the hell a heliotrope was, and so just substituted it for the more popularly recognised sunflower, but I rather hope that's not the case.

@riku32194

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelheliotis5279 yep, hence the edit to my comment

@rogeriopenna9014

2 жыл бұрын

For the same reason Hobbits eat potatoes, which are also from the Americas.

@faithlesshound5621

2 жыл бұрын

When ancient people migrated, they took their words for plants, animals and fish with them and transferred them to whatever was similar in their new surroundings. For example, Englishmen arriving in "New England" chose to call maize "sweetcorn" or just "corn."

@brunobisio2406

2 жыл бұрын

There's also the Brazilian mith of an ancient greo-roman settlement in the middle of the Amazon. Aparently in the xix century a xviii century manuscript was found reporting on a group of Bandeirantes finding a lost city by accident they could never return to.

I'm 67 years old, but I remember a college archeology professor talking to our 6th grade class, 1965, about his trips to Mexico to study the Mayans and Aztecs and how they found some small Roman coins at a site. I've never been able to find anything online about it, but it makes sense. The Romans, Greeks, and Phoenicians weren't stupid, they were capable of many things.

@wellobush9022

Жыл бұрын

if the roman did find America and traded with the Mayan ( not the Aztecs as the Aztecs were after the roman era) you think they would write it down.

@Ammo08

Жыл бұрын

@@wellobush9022 Assuming they got back. I keep thinking that maybe Roman/Greek ships got blown off course, got caught in the Soutehrn trad winds and ended up the New World. In the long run, I don't know.

@Rotisiv

Жыл бұрын

@@wellobush9022 What if it they thought it was India or Japan or some other land which was known to the Romans? Idk

@wellobush9022

Жыл бұрын

@@Rotisiv Romans are not as dumb as Columbus. I don't know have you can mistake the Mayan for any other culture in the old world.

@danielefabbro822

Жыл бұрын

I heard the same story.

To the topic of the sunken roman ship near Brazil, wooden ships are known to sometimes resurface after sinking, and they can travel amazing distances, half-sunk, whiteout a crew, with the help of ocean currents. These "ghost-ship"sightings are all-over the history, but they certainly don't transport cargo like pineapple back to Europe.

@sulevturnpuu5491

2 жыл бұрын

And same currents can carry clever sailors. If memory serves, some guy once crossed Atlantic in an old style raft/boat as a test.

@mruberman4075

2 жыл бұрын

@@sulevturnpuu5491 thor heyerdahl

@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey

2 жыл бұрын

Its easy to cross oceans. This always frsutrates me go look at the polynesians. Half sunk ghost ships travelling across the atlantic is inventing miracles to explain mundane things.

@mruberman4075

2 жыл бұрын

@@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey not exacty what i would describe as easy, but its certainly doable, with the right equipment and know-how.

@sulevturnpuu5491

2 жыл бұрын

@@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey It's not easy. You would have to figure out the ocean currents, but how do you do it without reliable way to tell your direction or time? Most who lost sight of land died.

"That's not a pinecone." Now look up the Italian Stone Pine. Its cones look very much like small pineapples, and have edible nuts inside. Also compare the size of the "pineapple" to the much more recognizable fruit next to it. It's much too small to be a pineapple.

@realtalk6195

2 жыл бұрын

@Aurora Peace Any oil that smells or tastes unusual isn't popular for cooking in the US.

@cinemacritic9571

2 жыл бұрын

not really, I am familiar with that tree and the cone doesn't look like that.

@AD-gl2wi

2 жыл бұрын

@@cinemacritic9571 The cones actually do look like that when their scales are closed. If you ever look at an umbrella pine with cones that are still green, they have almost the same exact appearance as the fresco, pattern and all.

@sahej6939

Жыл бұрын

In Hawaii, when u grow them at home on the bush they are quite small. They don’t look like the supermarket pineapple 🍍

@sahej6939

Жыл бұрын

@Serendipity Vibe I love sun flower oil 🌻

So idk how plausible this is, but Luke said something about “indirect trade” that got me thinking. We know for a fact that people like the polynesians were capable of cross-ocean travel at some point before the romans; is it possible that limited trade was actually happening between the Americas and East-Asia and working it’s way west? Hence the “from india” comment about pre-colombian maize?

@Timmavid167

2 жыл бұрын

I had this very same thought. But I come across one problem. Pineapples and maize go bad in about 3-5 days (at room temperature). I don't think these items can be traded that quickly over such vast distances.

@clownphabetstrongwoman7305

2 жыл бұрын

@@Timmavid167 the mature hard corn seeds last a long time.

@nuancedhistory

2 жыл бұрын

This was my thought as well. Hard Maizes like pre-Colombian Maize last longer than modern corn. I don't think it's a Pineapple in the mosaic though. Or a pinecone, either. The sunflower seeds, however, are quite damning. I've also heard the theory that West Africa was having contact, and we know the Romans were trading deep down into Africa, as evidenced by their glasswork which must have been using imported rough diamonds from deep in Sub-Saharan Africa to carve. So it's possible the Romans could have been getting these super-exotic goods via two routes of indirect contact.

@bruderschweigen6889

2 жыл бұрын

@@nuancedhistory west Africans had ships? Maybe I'm a eurocentric but I didnt know that

@faithlesshound5621

2 жыл бұрын

It looks odd to me that transatlantic (?) trade brought pineapples and sunflowers to Europe but did not take the wheel or iron to America. But then China was trading with the West for centuries before paper, printing and gunpowder technologies were transferred.

My main objection to the pineapple is rather simple: it's a pandan fruit. They grow over a lot of South and South East Asia, and given the trade that happened through the Indian Ocean, it seems more likely that someone saw these in travels or tried to bring it back. It's a bit simpler since that contact was pretty intensely noted in history

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

I think that’s a great alternative explanation

@rogergroover4633

2 жыл бұрын

If it's a pandan, it's a very lousy artistic interpretation.

@commenter4898

2 жыл бұрын

The sculpture could be a pandan fruit. The mosaic seems more like a hawthorn, rose hip, or pomegranate to me.

@bunga6475

2 жыл бұрын

@@rogergroover4633 it wouldn't be rare if the one that did the interpretation was not the one who saw the fruit

@balazskiss985

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke bullshit, rom means ruin in old language = modern hungarian magyar= tatar tudor= who knows, has knowledge =thoth, god of thoughts Tót is a magyar family name, very common mr. Toth = Tóth úr = tatar we magyars made Rome a ruin (Atilla the hun), but tell a different story, his story...

There’s a reasonable claim that the Basques were fishing off the coast of New England or Labrador, but kept the fishing grounds secret to prevent competition.

@flyingisaac2186

2 жыл бұрын

Also the fisherman of Bristol working off Newfoundland in pursuit of cod.

@marmac83

2 жыл бұрын

sure Jan

Back in the 1960's when I was attending a conference near the city Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on a yacht with friends, we noticed that for a time there was some underwater investigation going on. From our curiosity and inquiries, we found out that the divers were marine archeologists. It seems that a fleet of three Roman merchant ships had sunk adjacent to the harbor. When we asked how they knew they were Roman merchant ships, they answered that there was no indication of battering ram on the forward keel. But there were lots of large glass bottles and ceramic jars of varying sizes in the cargo holds. Further, when I checked no mention of this was even mentioned in the local newspapers. Not a word.

@THX-1138

2 жыл бұрын

Very strange indeed

@giga.s.o.p

2 жыл бұрын

THEY don't want you to know!! what is the government hiding from us??

@annoyedzebra6362

2 жыл бұрын

@@giga.s.o.p Who's they

@racheleraanan5133

2 жыл бұрын

@@giga.s.o.p - I seriously doubt there is a government conspiracy afoot (any government.) Since most people have no interest in the subject, the mainstream media ignore it. Most of those in government - whether elected/appointed politicians or technocrats - have no more knowledge or interest than the general public.

@soleilforgeron590

2 жыл бұрын

@@giga.s.o.p get treatment for schizophrenia

My hope is that someday a huge cache of scrolls, stories and documents will be discovered and new light can be shed this subject.

@birch8109

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

@jaredkinney9239

2 жыл бұрын

It was probably in the library of Alexandria before the fire

@chibiromano5631

2 жыл бұрын

They weren't burned, they are locked up in the vatican.. how much you want to bet. That and the Smithonian. Plenty of Aztec texts were stored there and when the govt asked for them back they said they all had burned, but then all of a sudden 30 years later these ancient artificats are being found in billionaires homes or being showcased for a limited time at vati as 'restorations' .

@b0leg23

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaredkinney9239 Fire of Alexandria, destruction of Gundeshapur, sack of Konstantinopolis (by latins), sack of Baghdad.... why does this keep happening

@jinz0

2 жыл бұрын

got burned in library of alexandria

That transition to advertising Lingua Latina per se Illustrata caught me so off guard lol

@weirdlanguageguy

2 жыл бұрын

He has become an expert in the ways of sneaking LLPSI into conversation

Pausanias the 2nd Century geographer, mentions in his description of Greece ,chapter XXIII, the existance of islands(the satyrides) way beyond the pillars of Hercules, where people have redish skin and have tails as long as horses. He holds that information from a sailor named Euphemos of Caria.

@ivanbrkljacic2684

2 жыл бұрын

I JUST THOUGHT OF THAT WHILE WATCHING THIS VIDEO 🤣🤣

@marciocorrea8531

2 жыл бұрын

Deniers will sure say that Pausanias wrote a "fictional story", the same as Plato and Plinius...The same people that most likely will call the Viking settlements in America as "hoax"...

@juanausensi499

2 жыл бұрын

@@marciocorrea8531 Beyond the pillars of Hercules could mean Madeira, the Canary Islands or the Azores islands.

@robertwilliamson922

10 ай бұрын

⁠@@juanausensi499 The Romans were definitely aware of the Canary Islands. The Carthaginians were aware of them before the Romans. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were aware of the Azores. Just look at how far the Greek explorer Pytheas traveled in north west Europe and the North Atlantic around 325 B.C.E. when Rome was still just a small town. And the Romans were certainly familiar with his writings.

My fourth grade history book, written in, or at least read by me in, the early fifties, clearly describes the voyages of Eric the Red to Iceland and Greenland, and his son Leif Ericson to North America. No permanent settlement was made because the indigenous tribes were hostile and totally outnumbered the Norsemen. As for the Romans, many hurricanes begin as tropical storms off the African coast. It is easily believable that such storms carried Romans, trading with African countries, across the Atlantic. Having survived such an event, the first thing a Roman captain would do was to repair his damaged ship, gather whatever foodstuff was available, and return home as quickly as possible. The idea of trying to establish a trade route across such a dangerous sea using the cockleshell boats available at that time would have been dismissed out of hand. All that would remain would be a sailor's story of a landfall somewhere out in the Atlantic, possibly dismissed as a description of the Canary Islands.

@Tjalve70

2 жыл бұрын

It was well known, and well proven, that the Norse had settled in Greenland. That was after all the basis for Denmark's claim to Greenland. However, the story of Vinland was not proven. Nor was it known where Vinland actually was, if the stories were true. It was not until the archeological evidence was found, that it was more or less proven that Vinland was in Newfoundland.

@roryschweinfurter4111

2 жыл бұрын

Just read the opening chapter of any Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt books

@hoponpop3330

2 жыл бұрын

I was aware of Leif Ericsson back in the mid 1950’s I always loved history

@emmitstewart1921

2 жыл бұрын

@@hoponpop3330 That was about the time I was reading it in my history book.

@anthonylogiudice9215

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tjalve70 There is enough evidence to show that Leif Erikson and his Norse expedition were the first Europeans who actually landed in the New World in the year 1000. A

2:38 The other arguments make sense, but truth is pine cones bring pine nuts. Nuts in general are categorised as fruits. I don't know if they do in the botanical definition, but at least in all romance languages I can think of, they are categorised as fruits, "fruit à coque/fruit sec", "frutos secos"...

@yerbadeldiablo6751

2 жыл бұрын

Hi! Ecologist here. In short - pines botanically do not have fruits because they are Gymnosperms. Fruits are produced by Angiosperms (flowering plants).

@desanipt

2 жыл бұрын

@Henrique Paes No way, Sherlock 👀

@otaconpas

2 жыл бұрын

Nuts aren't fruits, both botanically and especially nutritionally: nuts are mostly fats, so they are extremely caloric, while almost all fruits are full of water, thus they have low calories.

@ngw03

2 жыл бұрын

@@yerbadeldiablo6751 The modern botanical category isn’t really the question though-the question is whether, in Roman society at the time of the fresco, a pine cone bearing nuts was considered sufficiently “fruit-like” such that its inclusion in a bowl of fruit wouldn’t seem unusual. Whether nuts in general and pine nuts in particular were commonly called “fruit” gives us some evidence of that proposition.

@yerbadeldiablo6751

2 жыл бұрын

@@ngw03 I know, it was just a botanical fun fact, I decided to comment it since they said that they don't know the botanical definition

"So, there's a picture of a pinapple" Me: "Possible" "A type pf corn grain..." Me: "Also possible" "And a freaking physical shipwreck off of Brazil" Me: "Hold up!"

@johnharris5975

2 жыл бұрын

Haha my mindset exactly!

@sulevturnpuu5491

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnharris5975 That 1 wreck doesnt show anything. In my mind its a ship that was going to Canaries (I think romans knew of the place), got lost (probably in storm) and carried over in a current (wasnt that the preffered route after Columbus?).

I wish YT didn’t censor everything. There used to be a channel that was all about Europeans in the americas, they talked about the ginger mummies they found in Florida, the questionable rune stone, and my personal favorite which I can’t find anymore…. There was a Greek or Roman scroll that described this place past the pillars of Hercules that only the most badass would travel too, and most didn’t come back. There was a crude map and it was basically Florida and the gulf region. Yeah I doubt there was consistent cross Atlantic travel, but I personally have no doubt at least a few dozen voyages were made. Lastly I don’t think the Romans would have been as blown away as later Europeans. I’m Pretty sure they considered the world to be much bigger and filled with many mystical lost places. Evenn during the late republic they considered Britain to be an enchanted island. That’s during a time where they had contact with Celts and Gauls who knew it was a mundane place they went back and forth from.

@amrosk

2 жыл бұрын

KZread feel so soulless nowadays, I miss the times all that crazy stuff was all over the place :(

@ralphieandthemamacat8383

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah politics ruined KZread. It made them just take down everything they might slightly even consider as conspiracy. Sucks I used to have soo much fun learning about world and ancient history. Now it's just the same d Bible from the same sources blah!!!!!

@matthewdietzen6708

2 жыл бұрын

I thought they were only censoring COVID stuff....

@thanevakarian9762

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthewdietzen6708 that’s just the latest thing. YT used to actually be a free uncensored platform.

@tsw6521

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthewdietzen6708 anything that counters the out of africa theory really

It is certainly an intriguing concept. However, I can’t help but agree with your feeling that there would be *more* if this were true. Like, we know corn grows very well in Northern Italy, so if it were maize that Pliny the Elder was describing, surely it would have caught on. That none of these hypothesised introductions from America survived through the ages before Columbus, when they became *massively* popular after his voyage, seems unlikely.

@JamesTaylor-on9nz

2 жыл бұрын

To be completely fair though, there is also not much evidence left of the contact and trade between India and the Roman Empire too, and we know for sure that India and the Roman Empire traded frequently. As stated in the video, any kind of voyage to the Americas, let alone back to Rome, would have been extremely difficult and sporadic at best. Any fruits, people or goods transported back to the Roman Empire would probably be scant, and it would have been almost impossible to maintain a trade network to bring back any kind of maize in quantities large enough to support widescale agriculture. Just a disclaimer, I'm still agnostic about the theory that Rome discovered the Americas, I'm just playing devils advocate.

@creativedesignation7880

2 жыл бұрын

@@JamesTaylor-on9nz If there was only a small quantity of corn (or in fact any living thing) brought back to Europe from such a hypothetical journey, that would be part of the reason it did not survive or spread: not enough genetic diversity.

@mfaizsyahmi

2 жыл бұрын

@@creativedesignation7880 Or simply not enough knowhow on how to cultivate New World crops. Even when old world powers managed to colonize the new world and cultivate maize, it took them centuries to figure out that the native practice of soaking maize in lime is essential to make maize nutritionally sustainable as a staple crop.

@TheBurningWarrior

2 жыл бұрын

Don't forget, where corn displaced traditional crops, it lead to the deadly nutritional deficiency pellagra, because the niacin in corn isn't available if it isn't treated with an alkali first. Just because the finished product was brought back, doesn't mean the knowledge of how to grow and effectively use it has. Further, just as some places will only sell one gender of their breed of dogs, and silk worms were kept a guarded secret, people knew there was a danger of things being grown elsewhere cutting out the need for traders. It wouldn't surprise me if savvy traders found a way to heat treat them or similar to render them unlikely to be viable.

@FOLIPE

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBurningWarrior Thing is corn wasn't a trade secret. Everyone in the new world planted it. It isn't like some empires were hoarding the secrets of corn or anything like that

This is why Luke is awesome. Paraphrase "Hey how about you go to the source material yourself and read it in its original context/language to see what is actually being said". You are great keep it up! "A text without a context is no text at all"

@John-Adams

2 жыл бұрын

A text without a context is just a pretext for whatever you want it to say.

@biblebot3947

2 жыл бұрын

@Domingo Aguirre ok

Don't forget that Egyptians wrapped various herbs in the bandages around mummies. One of the herbs that has been discovered and identified is tobacco, another new world species. I remember a live unwrapping event on the BBC, featuring Dr Rosalie David of the university of Manchester, in which tobacco was found.

@andreroy8141

2 жыл бұрын

@Malcolm Sewell Also Egyptian cotton strains have been found in the Americas. They have been genetically tested to be Egyptian. It's proven that salt water would destroy those seeds. And the winds won't carry the seeds that far.

Very interesting. I wonder if the "Pineapple" in the art could be from a now extinct plant? We do know that there are quite a few plants that the ancients used that are now extinct. Thanks for the interesting content.

@AD-gl2wi

2 жыл бұрын

It’s likely an umbrella pine cone. The illustration matches perfectly with one, plus Romans often ate the pine nuts at banquets so it makes sense that it would be next to the fruits.

@maearcher4721

Жыл бұрын

It's possible there are species of flora which exist in both Europe and America, certainly it could be the case it got extinct in Europe(or Africa) and its cousin survived in America.

So what you're telling me is, pineapple on pizza might be ancient? ;)

@craiglytton1641

2 жыл бұрын

You win

@TwistedAlphonso1

2 жыл бұрын

@@rioscordoba606 it doesn't

@rioscordoba606

2 жыл бұрын

@@TwistedAlphonso1 before it did, but i'll delete my comment

@SimonSozzi7258

2 жыл бұрын

🤣 👏

@SimonSozzi7258

2 жыл бұрын

So stupid 🤣🥳👍 I love it

Italians:(discover America twice) Also Italians: "Is this Asia?"

@daless3526

2 жыл бұрын

Boo.

@sebastianmaharg

2 жыл бұрын

The discovery of America was a Spanish enterprise. The Italians in Italy don't take credit for it nor is it even on their radar. It's only Italian Americans who have subsequently conjured up that narrative.

@based_prophet

2 жыл бұрын

Socrates - eels come from rain hitting the water from high altitudes

@voidtraveller8667

2 жыл бұрын

@@based_prophet to be fair, we didn't know how some species of Eel reproduce until like a decade or so ago. some adult eels don't even have sex organs, so there were a lot of questions.

@realtalk6195

2 жыл бұрын

Italian as an ethnicity, country or lingua-franca didn't exist in the 1500s. They were separate kingdoms, empires and peoples. Hence, why they never led any expeditions west, just trade and small colonies within the Mediterranean region. The Roman Empire weren't exclusively "Italian", and most were from outside the Italian Peninsula. If a theoretical American voyage took place, it most likely would include people from North Africa and Southern Iberia (due to Phoenician influence) and Greece. The Phoenician (originating in Lebanon) and Greek peoples were the two main naval powers of the region prior to the Roman Empire conquering them and genociding the former (Carthage).

I just adore your video and listen to you. Fantastic research and would like that to be proved true in the future discoveries. Magnifico ti adoro

Great sound!

Well, it's tempting. Remember that both the Roman and early medieval ages were warmer than today ('Roman climatic optimum' and 'medieval climatic optimum'). The travels of Pytheas (sailing to Hibernia) and Necho (Africa circumnavigation) are also two hell of a journeys.

@stijnvdv2

2 жыл бұрын

Yes... I also think that the modern vision on 'history' is pretty messed up. Especially the 'civilization began in Uhr and pretty much a straight line to now' stuff. However certainly the story of Columbus is too much glorified; he wasn't the first idd, Vikings were there before, and even before that the Chinese... and there is a document in the Brazil museum that talks about Spanish explorers finding a ruined glorious city in the Amazon that had Hellenistic/Roman/classical European architecture, the entire movie Lost City of Z is based on it as Faucet tried to find this city. Columbus is also too vilified as mainly lefty political zealots want you to believe that the natives were living benevolently and harmony in America.... yeah well that's not really the case; when Pizarro went to the Inca's for the 2nd time to conquer it; he found it just after a civil war where natives killed each other in the hundreds of thousands... as for Cortez.... yeah, well I guess if the Aztecs didn't suppress the other native tribes; they wouldn't have joined up with Cortez against the Aztecs.... so the story about 'benevolent natives' that the BBC etc. etc. always goes on about is just a load of crap.

@racheleraanan5133

2 жыл бұрын

@@stijnvdv2 - While Columbus was certainly not the first European to 'discover' the Americas, he definitely had the greatest impact - for good and bad. His explorations changed the course of world history.

Most of history was never written down and most we will never know.

@user-ls8ks7kv8c

2 жыл бұрын

If there was trade with people in the new world, surely something as major as that would be written down

@yesnomaybeso5755

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-ls8ks7kv8c what if it was a little more common than we think. So to them it was not note worthy to take account of those interactions. What if they actually lost contact. What if there is legitimate historical evidence hidden away. Why would it be hidden? History books would have to be retold and propagandas would have to be reworked. Just a theory of why we may not know a lot about this if it was indeed part of history. I believe the ancients were a lot smarter and capable than we think.

@yesnomaybeso5755

2 жыл бұрын

@Gary Allen What is History but a fable agreed upon? - Napoleon Bonaparte

@mahatmarandy5977

2 жыл бұрын

Yes No Maybe So right. And an egomaniac like Napoleon just has to be 100% right about everything. Just because a guy says something doesn't make it true. Even if it's catchy and mmorable, it doesn't make it true

@yesnomaybeso5755

2 жыл бұрын

@@mahatmarandy5977 so quoting someone one time presumably means I believe that person is always right. On the contrary this is just a statement I agree with to a certain extent. At the end of the day we weren’t there. People have a habit of exaggerating a story or portraying themselves as the good guys when they in fact are the bad guys. History is provided to students in a format to manipulate and influence them into a way of thinking.

Interesting and worthwhile video.

Haha, at first, I thought you were going to completely debunk this! Boy, was I surprised! I’ve been in Roman studies for a while and had no idea about this until now…

@chianghighshrek

10 ай бұрын

Its alot of miss guided bullshit look up the Metatron he debunks all of this

I could easily see a roman vessel being blown off course, ending up in the Americas, and getting lucky to make it back. They show exotic goods, and tell their story, so a group sends a few ships over, less than half make it back and it ends up being not worth the effort and forgotten.

@autodidacticartisan

2 жыл бұрын

That seems the most likely it's doubtful that there was trade but maybe a couple ships that made it back and forth

@nicholassmith479

2 жыл бұрын

Even in those days they would consider sailing across the Atlantic suicide. It is easy to sail across the Mediterranean and even then they sailed their ships in view of the shore. The Atlantic, not so much.

@TheBonecrusherz

2 жыл бұрын

@@nicholassmith479 they didn't know how big the Atlantic was so at least a few people must have tried it. The moon landing was dangerous and expensive as well but there were still people who tried and succeeded.

@Bolt892

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBonecrusherz lmao u actually believe that?

@nicholassmith479

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBonecrusherz The moon landings and the Christopher Columbus voyages NEEDED government support. No records of an Emperor giving an adventurer money to sail to the unknown. The technology wasn’t there and no private citizen was going to risk money and ships to nowhere. It was easier to trade on the Mare Nostrum where you were nearly guaranteed a return. One would need to find sailors who were willing to sail over the edge of the world.

Years ago, when I was at university studying linguistics, and had my first contact with classical culture I started wondering about this theory. Since then I've researched about this subject in the internet and found out several legends about Fenicians and Romans coming to Brazil before modern europeans. I think it is plausible that something like that happened. Unfortunately there is little archeological research here in Brazil as such studies are deemed waste of money.

its important to note that wooden ships do not really sink unless it was burned or broken on rocks. if a ship was capsized in a storm the crew might have abandoned it for shore but the ship would float off whereever the currents took it. it is totally plausable for a bronze age ship sailing around north africa to end up in the new world before it became totally waterlogged and swamped with water.

Anyone ever read the books, "Clash of Eagles"...? It's about the Western Roman Empire not collapsing and then discovering the Americas in something like the 1260s-1280s where they make contact with various Native American tribes. What I found even more interesting was, the Romans were like "buddies" with Visigoths and Norsemen in the Roman army.. I can't remember what was said of Byzantium. I am ultra fascinated by fictional/alternate history-type stories.

Given how "low-resolution" that "pineapple" picture is, and given the *enormous* variety of fruits, especially in the region, it could probably be one of several dozens of different fruits grown in the region at the time.

@gmchris3752

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely possible. I've been fascinated with the number of extinct varieties of fruits and vegetables found in Rome. I read a while back that Rome had a number of varieties of fresh snacking onions eaten like we eat apples (said to be different from modern onions).

@Bolognabeef

2 жыл бұрын

@@gmchris3752 sounds interesting. Got a source?

@ethanstaaf404

2 жыл бұрын

@@winkleperiwinkle808 the prickly pear is native to mexico

@kevintsap3692

2 жыл бұрын

@@gmchris3752 my family (bulgarian-ukrainian) eat green onion and regular onion raw. Regular onion you eat slice by slice

@creativedesignation7880

2 жыл бұрын

Anyone got a source of that variety of fruits native to Europe? I searched around a lot, but was unable to find any native European fruit that looks anything like the depiction. Looks like most fruits native to Europe are berries and from what I found it wasn't exactly an enourmous variety of them either... If anyone could name just a single candidate, that would be helpfull, because without context this argument sounds to me like: "No idea what it is, but I don't want it to be a pineapple". (not saying it necessarily is one, but I'm not finding any alternatives either)

Yes they did and they live in New Jersey

@Fabivs94

2 жыл бұрын

Where the biggest Roman American community is ahahah

@VerrouSuo

2 жыл бұрын

The Greeks did it first, though. Ever heard of Sparta, New Jersey?

@markglock2585

2 жыл бұрын

And the Romans, where are they now? Youre looking at them asshole

Just for the "sunflower seeds in a shipwreck" story, I did some research on it, and it looks like it could be a contamination from the close-by plantation

I doubt the pineapple thing. When pineapples were first "commonly" brought to Europe they spoiled very easily making them super rare and valuable. I remember one story where they brought a shipfull of them and only one made it and some king or whatever got to try it and declared it the king of fruit, and this was with far better ships. I don't think its likely a pineapple would have survived the time it would have taken romans to get back to Europe and even if it did, I imagine so few would make it that they'd hardly catch on enough to be depicted in mosaics

@laninthomasma8814

2 жыл бұрын

It's not implausible. The Romans were very opportunistic people, and their taste for rare and hard to find foods was legendary even in the day. If some enterprising Roman found a way to grow pineapples, he very easily could have kept his operation a secret to ensure a monopoly. Pineapples grow low to the ground, so concealment wouldn't have been that difficult. And the secret might have died with him. But I'm thinking from the standpoint of a writer of fiction. Making the Scenario Work isn't even remotely the same as Proving it Actually Happened.

@michaelfoulkes9502

2 жыл бұрын

They could have brought pineapple seeds or a small tree.

@sahej6939

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelfoulkes9502 pineapples grow on low bushes close to the ground, not trees. Jackfruit grow on trees, somewhat dangerously. they are quite small when home grown (as they are all over Hawaii), and when u pick then pre-ripe, they actually last quite along time. They don’t look like the supermarket one, more like a pinecone.

Pine cones are edible. In Russia they make pine cone jam.

@creativedesignation7880

2 жыл бұрын

They are, the Romans ate and depicted them and those depictions look nothing like the fruit in that picture.

@denizmetint.462

2 жыл бұрын

Löwenzahn

I love the way you approach these themes. Your analysis is really interesting. And I really appreciate how much effort you put into pronouncing the names of the authors well, it’s really polite!

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Grazie! Well, perhaps my approach here came off as insufficiently skeptical.

@Tommi414

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke you *do* make it sound like it’s very plausible, when in reality I’d say it’s more of a remote theory. But still, maybe you’re right.

The echo in that room is doing you no production favours... but your content is so good!

More videos of this nature, having to do with sailing and exploration, would be most welcome!

The Pheonicians were excellent sailors, i'm sure they would have tried to investigate the ocean at some point.

@oisinofthefianna3246

2 жыл бұрын

Mexican historiography records contact with merchants who recall the Carthaginians. See, "The Blood Drenched Altars"

@niko73le

2 жыл бұрын

@@oisinofthefianna3246 I didn't know that, thanks very much.

@oisinofthefianna3246

2 жыл бұрын

@Gary Allen Bigoted ad hominem noted.

@Bolt892

2 жыл бұрын

@Gary Allen Imagine simping for the MESO AMERICAN civilizations

@Lachausis

2 жыл бұрын

@@oisinofthefianna3246 'bigoted' the favorite word of soy-perhuman left

Could such fruit remain edible for long enough for such a long travel ? One argument used by Cato the Elder to declare war on Carthage, was bringing a fruit from Carthage to Rome and showing it was still fresh, implying Carthage was not a distant threat. Bringing fruits from America or South Asia would take considerably longer.

@volimNestea

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, and pineapples in particular rot really quickly. They're gone in a matter of days!

@winterborn82

2 жыл бұрын

@@volimNestea And yet they were gifted to the pope when the journey still took months. They were transported as potted plants, and still growing.

@BrickMediaStudios

2 жыл бұрын

@@volimNestea really? Takes atleast a month for it to rot outside of a fridge

@volimNestea

2 жыл бұрын

@@BrickMediaStudios In my experience, it takes only about 2 or 3 days. Maybe it has something to do with the way they're stored and transported?

@volimNestea

2 жыл бұрын

@@winterborn82 Haven't heard of that, though it does make sense. Still, imagine wasting fresh water for watering pineapples when you're stuck on the ocean for months!

Very interesting theory...good video

Hi, Mexican here. Probably many followers of this channel, because you are cultivated people, know about Quetzalcoatl, the main god of the civilizations in Mesoamerica. So, Quetzalcoatl is an ancient god that was being around for millennia. Originally was this serpent with feathers, serpent - earth (the womb is always touching the ground), feathers - sky, so was a god connecting skies and earth, mostly in a practical way: rain. Water elevates to the skies, then move there, then fall again on the crops. Snakes also were related to water, not just in Mesoamerica, but in many cultures, because they look like a fluid. So, as an ancient god, he was a regent of agriculture and rain. Later, Quetzalcoatl started to be more a god of civilization (agriculture brought that) and he was not anymore the feathered serpent, but human form (the water/rain deity took other face: Tlaloc). Wise god, always trying to care for humans, whereas the rest of the gods were skeptical of humans or wanted to clean the Earth of them. In fact, gods destroyed humanity 4 times, and Quetzalcoatl revived us 5 times till now, every time in a "better version" of humans. Previous humans were monkeys, giants, and so on. As in Christianity, Mesoamericans always waited for the come of the carer god to help us, Quetzalcoatl. And, as Jesus, in fact there was a man who was considered Quetzalcoatl itself presented to people in more human form. They made him king, not the Aztecs, because was centuries before, almost a millenium before Aztecs. They were the Toltecs, the equivalent of Greeks in this region of the world, the Mother culture. And this is the thing: Quetzalcoatl, the king, the real human, was a white skinned man, with beard!!! He came from the sea, the Atlantic!!! He was considered very wise and taught many practical stuff to the people. He sailed to the East after some time ruling, promising he will return. This is why Moctezuma, centuries later, thought Europeans, Spanish conquistadors, were him!! I don't know why this is not so known, it's amazing! Many think Quetzalcoatl was a viking, but, what if he was a Roman???

This would make a great movie

When Alexander met Diogenes they spoke about a distant continent from the other side of the atlantic ocean

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

True, though the continent of Atlantis was a well known legend at this time.

@user-bo8sm4vq1o

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke i do not know where is the boundary between myth and history. When Apollodorus from Sicily visited the island of Samothrace in nothern Aegean, the priests of the cabeirian mysteries told him about an ancient disaster, when thw wates crossed the Hellespont and sunked the land, which is the way as we know that the sea was formed after the last ice age, at about 6-8.000 BC. Where do we put the myth and where the ancient tradition?

@Vo_Siri

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-bo8sm4vq1o We know that Atlantis is explicitly fictional - Plato made it up. Further, early man first made their way to the Americas across the top of the Pacific, not the Atlantic.

@PwnEveryBody

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-bo8sm4vq1o Myth doesn't serve as evidence of its own, but often serves as inspiration to go out and look for evidence. It barely even serves as corroborating evidence at the very most. The most it usually gets to is "oh look, this myth actually has an origin in real life".

@ubrot7995

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-bo8sm4vq1o Myths alway started out as stories about things to do/not to do. Ancient tribes that did not have writing yet could only pass information on orally and whenever important information was passed down it got predictably warped over time. Most ancient mythologies, gods and legends have some core truth or fact behind them, with the caveat that these aren't often visible at first without extensive research. Though it is not really clear which myths describe real events and which describe examples of how to act. So take them all with a lot of salt and dont blindly believe in them.

Wow, your Latin is EXCELLENT! I only studied for 3 years, I have nightmares about declinations. Not a joke, I thought English was convoluted. Hmm, wonder what the etymology of "convoluted" is...

Good video.

There's also a theory that ancient greeks travelled to america, there's reference to islands west of britain (thought to be referencing iceland and greenland) that get you to a large land (america). This only vaguely spoken about in greek academic circles so who knows.

@omegacardboard5834

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lost epic poem about some geezer who got lost on the way back from Trojan war and went to America

@Michail_Chatziasemidis

2 жыл бұрын

@@omegacardboard5834 LoL! Would his wife be offered many marriage proposals that she'd refuse?

@therat1117

2 жыл бұрын

I know what this is talking about, and this is a mistranslation. What they're talking about is Scandinavia, and the direction is EAST of Britain. Ancient Greek directional expressions can be a bit funky, hence the confusion. The discussion was more or less about whether Scandinavia was real or not.

@carloslozano4999

2 жыл бұрын

in aztec culture there are a couple of coincidences with greeks, the word for god is also teos and some patterns used for decoration are very similar, who knows.

@achilleuspetreas3828

2 жыл бұрын

Some go as far as to say the bronze age Myceneans or Minoans went to Michigan. There's as much as half billion (an exaggeration but still a ton nonetheless) of copper that was excavated in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan from 2450 BC and ended abruptly around 1200 BC. It's a stretch but it holds some weight. A lot of local myths about in here in Michigan. Plutarch's navigation (or somebody I can't remember) leads to the Great Lakes so it makes sense also in that regard

2:34 I don't think the leaves are attached to the pineapple/pinecone. it looks to me that the leaves are going under it. The thing behind the pineapple/pinecone looks the same, but has no leaves. I think these are pinecones over some herb or grass used as a garnish.

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Could be; but the leaves are clearly attached in the other artwork. See the book

Forgive me if somebody already posted this, but I remember reading an article a few years ago that a roman galley had been discovered off the coast of Nova Scotia. Unfortunately, from what I understand they have very difficult salvage laws up there, so I don't know if they've made any progress in excavating it. However, hearing that there was another ship found off Brazil makes this much more compelling. I figure one ship could be adrift, but two is pushing it for me. Please give me a reply if they ever find a third ship.

Actually, there is one Italian author from the 1340s who mentioned America in his writing. The name he gives to America is Marckalada. The Vikings called it Markland. The name of this Italian author from Milan is Galvano Fiamma.

I recommend reading " L' America dimenticata " by Lucio Russo. In my opinion it contains very convincing elements in support of the hypothesis of pre-Roman contacts with the Antilles islands. The book is only in italian, but the author has written a number of articles about this topic in english too. For example look for " Far-reaching Hellenistic geographical knowledge hidden in Ptolemy’s data".

@johnlove3505

2 жыл бұрын

@Henrique Paes You seem to be making the same comment, missing the point each time. No one is saying that the Romans were the first humans in the Americas. Rather that they may have been there long before the widely accepted time-frame of Viking and Colombian contact.

@chibiromano5631

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnlove3505 True. But as far as the first Europeans into America, i'm going to bet on it being the Fino Uralics or Sami people as well as the Yenesians of Russians. Haplogroup Q was found in both groups meaning that Native Americans had already mixed with european(or eurasian) or descended from them long before the western european stated. I can already confirm to you that the iriqous were related to teh Finnish, as Iriqouis called them 'like us but lighter'. But East Asia and North Russia have the first claims to the Americas. Romans probably never landed in America, they just received objects in trade from an unkonwn source. This would prove that el vatikan0 knew about Americas before the 1500s. Mel Gibson hints at this in Apocalypto which is set in 1200-1300. I will bet it was an unknown Indonesian or Southern Chinese group that was the intermediary. However when the Ottomans sacked Constantanople it trigered the Western Europeans to go into America , and knowing there was a discease or flood that killed off lots of the population.. they went into colonization or crusading mode onthem. It would explain why Squanto already spoke Italian and latin in Masachuesets when the English settlers arriived, they were confused by it.

A lot of the images can also have other explanations, some more logical than American contact, so for me that doesn't really do it as evidence to point in the direction of (limited) trade contact. The parrots may well not be of the Ara genus, I don't think anyone can make a claim with full confidence & precision based on the given image. Similarly, while the leaves are a bit strange, the rest of the alleged pineapple looks a lot like a stone pine cone (one that hasn't opened), also in its colours (not to mention pandan plants, native to south-east Asia, also have fruits that can look quite a lot like pineapples, and certainly can look similar to what is depicted there). Keep in mind the pineapple must have been locally grown, they can't ship that over the ocean without it rotting, so I'd wait for traces of that before jumping to any conclusions. There are indeed finds of jars in Brazil, however I don't think it's even confirmed they are Roman in origin (seems they could also be Spanish from the 15th century). Even if they are, Romans built boats out of wood, and wood floats, so an abandoned or lost vessel can float a long, long distance before sinking. As far as I'm aware, no remains of a vessel or crew have been found. At best, we can say that Roman-looking jars have made it to the Americas, but that's it. The problem with the evidence we have currently is that a lot of it can be explained with equally possible explanations that have nothing to do with the Romans. Additionally, there are people pushing historical theories based on little more than their beliefs or their politico-cultural agendas, and while I don't accuse any of those you mention of this (I don't know Italian so I can't really check for myself, and I would trust your judgement on this), it's important to always keep that in the back of your mind in general. That said, the most important thing is to keep an open mind to these possibilities. Too often has close-mindedness hampered scientific discovery, as I was reminded of recently by reading up on the efforts to decipher the Mayan scrip. But I think we do need more compelling evidence than what's presented so far.

@josephrohrbach1588

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think people are agreeing with this because it sounds cool rather than any actual credibility...

@mahatmarandy5977

2 жыл бұрын

"Keep an open mind, just not open enough to let your brain fall out." I agree with you. Nothing in this can't be explained in a vastly more mundane way.

@mahatmarandy5977

2 жыл бұрын

Joseph Rohrbach people like conspiracy theories. Makes em feel special, makes em feel like they know the truth while the learned are fools. It's all about ego, not a bit about fact.

@OniGarro

2 жыл бұрын

What about those sunflower seeds tho?

Interesting subject, thank you. Roman pottery and coins have been found in the Canaries, the very same archipeligo from which Colombus sailed from to go to the Caribean. Maybe an old Roman text was found telling of the route in one of the Arab librairies that were overrun in la reconquista. Who knows nice theory though.

I have also seen a pineapple atop what was supposedly one of the oldest fountains in Britain. I am sure that you can find references to it somewhere. Also, there are several Roman ships in the Gulf of Mexico, all lined up neatly. A real puzzle. No one really knew what to think about them, but it certainly adds more evidence. Something else to think about: spectrographic analysis of chocolate in certain mummies, and there is much more. I really am glad that someone is finally being brave enough to seriously put out these thought provoking theories.

I'm always shocked also when I thought that also ancient greeks measured almost precisely the circumference of the Earth.

@josephturner4047

2 жыл бұрын

The Egyptians did that.

@zubankesari7464

2 жыл бұрын

@@josephturner4047 if Egyptians did it would be aliens

@mruberman4075

2 жыл бұрын

There is allegedly also an arabian map (Pre age of exploration), copyed from ancient maps, wich shows the exact outlines of antarctica. But take this bit of information with a grain of salt, as i heard that from graham hancock who can go off into the fantastical sometimes. (Very interesting and entertaining though, and some of his ideas could turn out to be true imho)

@andredulac4456

2 жыл бұрын

@@josephturner4047 If you think about Eratosthene, he did his work in Egypt, but he was greek

@kingofgamez_9695

2 жыл бұрын

The Africans taught the Greeks mathematics shipbuilding map hygeine etc etc

i learn alot of stuff here as a history student, you literally change my worldview :) thank you for this, great channel

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

I'm glad! Keep a skeptical view of this; it all needs better verification.

@RiccardoRadici

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Hey, Luke! Yesterday, I wrote quite a long comment under this video about the subject of Atlantic voyages in antiquity, which I think you will find very interesting. Today, I was checking if you had answered but I cannot find my comment anymore. I am almost sure that the comment is now being "held for review" by KZread because it contained an external link. Could you please read it (held-for-review comments should be accessible to you anyway, via Creator Studio) and let me know what you think? I would prefer not to write it again from scratch (but I will do if necessary). Thanks!

Subbed!

Fascinating topic

There’s a theory that Basques might have made it to North America before Columbus in search of whale-hunting grounds. They definitely made it to Iceland and it was said they had other hunting grounds further afield that they kept secret. Without any physical evidence, though, there’s no way to say for sure.

@J429ortoch

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed what you warn is an unsproving theory, but we must take into account what common sense tells us. Not only the Basques but any other fishing people through the Middle Ages could have set foot anywhere on the extensive eastern coast of present-day America.

@J429ortoch

2 жыл бұрын

Including the fishing people of the ancient age.

@J429ortoch

2 жыл бұрын

In any case, the fact that the Romans reached American shores or not throughout history has not had the slightest significance. Neither cultural, norsocial nor economic trascendence.

@Pianoscript

2 жыл бұрын

Did you know that a pidgin mix of MicMac (indian tribe of eastern Canada) and Basque was documented by the Jesuits as early as 1616.

@nooneinparticular3370

2 жыл бұрын

@@Pianoscript You cannot just say this and just leave it at that. Where did you read about it? Ez dut inoiz ez irakurri ezer ez honi buruz.

Galvano Fiamma, a Dominican from Milan, mentioned the Americas in his Cronica Universalis, written in 1345... 150 years before Columbus

@weirdofromhalo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, he wrote about the Vikings and their explorations to Canada, Greenland, and Iceland.

For a pineapple to be included in a work of art from the Roman era, it would have to have been common enough and well known enough for the artist to have included it in their mosaic. Otherwise, what would have been the point. People would have just looked at it and wondered "What is that thing suppose to be?".

Extremely interesting!

The "pineapple" is probably just some exotic southeast asian fruit that looks like a pineapple mecause of the way the mosaic was created. The evidence that stands out to me is the shipwreck off of Brazil, but that's only evidence of a single ship that somehow managed to end up down there, and it is believable that a ship from a maritime civilization can get lost like that.

@levilivengood4522

2 жыл бұрын

what about the sunflower seeds? I've never heard that one before but I can't really see anyway to argue against it unless sunflowers used to be native to the Old World and died out

@ryanspencer6778

2 жыл бұрын

@@levilivengood4522 supposedly they were found in a doctor's bag in a shipwreck. I can see it being mistaken identity for seeds of some other plant in the Asteraceae family that Romans would have had access to, but if they are Helianthus seeds then that is a bit of a mystery.

@levilivengood4522

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryanspencer6778 yeah. it sounds like they did a dna analysis and that turned up the traces of sunflower seeds. the test could have been mistaken. cross contamination could also be a possibility, similar to the situation where tobacco was found in an egyptian mummy.

@MrAmhara

2 жыл бұрын

What " South East Asian" fruit look likes a pineapple?

@Hwyadylaw

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrAmhara Before long periods of selective breeding and standardisation, fruit existed in much greater variety and usually looking very different from today. Who knows what fruit it might have been, pandan perhaps? Also the question isn't if it looks similar to pineapple, but if it looks like it could be what the mosaic is trying to depict.

5:38 My layman's thoughts on it are that it could be a situation similar to how merchants treated the origins of cinnamon as a secret. It could've been merchants who may have found the Americas and, in order to ensure the scarcity of the products they're bringing, kept it a secret, a trade secret.

Certainly worth looking into !

You are a hidden jewel of the US Army brother. One of the few I respect and admire and try to emulate a bit when it comes to your vast knowledge and dedication to the classics. God bless you brother Luke and hooyah. 🙏🏿👍🏿 I wish I could have studied under you.

@polyMATHY_Luke

8 ай бұрын

You are very kind, sir; I’m proud to share my passions, especially with my brothers in arms like yourself. Hooyah to you too! Are you Navy?

@mosescola4174

8 ай бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Na just a guy whom used to be a huge fan of the military especially the army(metal gear solid! Lol!) unfortunately I was never mentally if physically fit for the army but I admire en and women of faith and scholarship whom served and bled for what they believe In. God bless you my brother for you are an inspiration to keep my nose in a book.🙏🏿✝️

I don't know about these specific mosaics, but I know of other "Roman" mosaics featuring American birds that have been proven to be fake later. The vikings left written texts about their journey to Vinland. So I'm pretty sure the Romans, who left us much more written texts, would have at least mentioned it somewhere. And if they were trading pineapples, sunflowers and American birds with someone else, I'm pretty sure they would have mentioned that as well. So I'm not convinced!

@Tabuleiro.

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Also why there is no archaeological vestige in the Americas tho

@volimNestea

2 жыл бұрын

And pineapples rot very quickly, there's no way they would have been edible by the time they arrived in Europe.

@mahatmarandy5977

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this is simply not rational. The Romans were not good sailors, and really not much into exploring. Hanno was the best explorer the ancient world, traveling half way down africa, and he never got out of sight of land. Roman dscovery of the new world is nonsense

@jorehir

2 жыл бұрын

Between the peak of the Roman era and nowadays there are 2000 years, and a civilization collapse. Between Viking peak and nowadays half of that, and civilization continuity. The discovery of such land might have been less than relevant to them. No advanced civilizations to trade with and an excessively long voyage. Hence not many written records, none of which survived. The written records from the late Empire are notoriously scarce anyway.

@jorehir

2 жыл бұрын

@@volimNestea How long would they last in ice? They might have used that.

There could've been more roman records of pinnacles or sunflowerseeds but perhaps they have been lost to history or even intentionally destroyed or lost. Or let's not forget about roman coins found throughout North and South America. Like roman coins discovered under an Indian mound in Texas dated to around 800 AD

@cthulhutentacles4994

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t that a hoax?

@diegoruvalcaba8150

2 жыл бұрын

@@cthulhutentacles4994 probably but there's been many roman coins found in the America's over the years and many historians always overlook the evidence saying it wasn't possible for the romans to voyage across the Atlantic. Well in my defense I believe the romans probably knew more than what we know but whatever they knew is lost to history.

@creativedesignation7880

2 жыл бұрын

@@diegoruvalcaba8150 They would have not needed to travel there themselves for the coins to appear in the Americas, the coins could have arrived there decades after they left Rome. Historians using the argument that the most direct travel route would have been impossible, thus all Roman coins in the Americas must have arrived well past the time of the Roman Empire makes me think we need way smarter historians...

@diegoruvalcaba8150

2 жыл бұрын

@@creativedesignation7880 your right but I wouldn't see anyone in the 15th or 16th centuries to bring them over to the America's only to loose them. It could've been someone from long before not just romans but that could've traded with natives then traded with romans?

@mahatmarandy5977

2 жыл бұрын

"Hundreds" is an exaggeration. Also, they're all recent (20th century) finds. No one ever claim to have found a Roman coin in Massachusetts in the 18th or 19th centuries. There was a guy in Tennessee Who claimed to have found roman coins, but only on his property. Then when he moved to texas, the coin finds stopped in tennessee and started in texas. And when he died, they stopped there too. He was lying. People lie.

I remember having read quite some time ago that the Romans had factually circumnavigated the world, well ahead of the crew of Magellan. If so, they presumably approached the coast of either South or Central America and then followed the coastline southward and passed through the same straits that are now named for Magellan, continuing into the Pacific. I have since tried to have this account vetted one way or the other.

St Brendan sailed west from Ireland and returned a decade later saying he'd found another land.

@andytopley314

2 жыл бұрын

There are also stories of Native Americans in the Appalachians having a 'mens tongue' that is suspiciously similar to Welsh. And let's not forget the Melungeons. There is a LOT of history that we don't know and people are often too eager to underestimate our forebears, so such hints as given by St. Brendan and others do repay close study.

@MCKevin289

2 жыл бұрын

He likely landed in Iceland. Given the sailing technology of the Irish at the time the farthest he could get would be Iceland. It was also known to be home to irish monks who wanted to live in solitude before they were driven out by the Norse six centuries later.

@neilfarrow1535

Ай бұрын

@@MCKevin289 Perhaps not so. In 1976 a British explorer called Tim Severin made a replica of the ships of St Brendan's time and successfully got it to North America on the first attempt, using the Voyage of St Brendan as his 'map'. Regardless of whther the story is true, it was technically possible. I'll try to put the link below, but if it doesn't appear, just search "The Brendan Voyage' on KZread (the sound track is awful quality, though).

@neilfarrow1535

Ай бұрын

@@MCKevin289 kzread.info/dash/bejne/lmSVxcp8oJa8ipM.html

The issue is not who first arrived. But how Columbus' discovery changed the world.

Mirabile auditu! Gratias tibi :)

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Et tibi, David!

It is an interesting topic. There is another interesting Italian book discussing this themes, especially focusing on the Phoenician and Greek maritime knowledge. It's "L'America dimenticata. I rapporti tra le civiltà e un errore di Tolomeo" byLucio Russo. I found it interesting and not too pushy on the subject.

The crossing Columbus took is around 6,000 km whereas the shortest crossing from Guinea to Brazil is less than half that distance at 2,800 km.

@petrhouzar9551

2 жыл бұрын

Too bad he didnt look at the map. By the way, he didnt want to go to Brazil, but to China (or Japan).

The Aztecs also had a legend of white skinned men with beards that came from across the ocean who said they would one day return. That’s why, when the Spanish came, they confused them with those people, Romans maybe?

@khanusmagnus577

2 жыл бұрын

No , those white people were their mythical gods ancestors , not visitors. Its part of their mythology , nothing to do with romans or anything like that.

@gabrielsandoval4994

2 жыл бұрын

@@khanusmagnus577 sometimes things that happen in history, with time become legend, and mythology. Other Caribbean and South American cultures had similar legends. If they were true or not is up to debate.

@TheBonecrusherz

2 жыл бұрын

@@khanusmagnus577 but why did their gods have white skin and beards, if they've never seen a white man before?

@letoubib21

2 жыл бұрын

Most Romans were shaved *. . .*

@gabrielsandoval4994

2 жыл бұрын

@@letoubib21 I had thought about that also, but after 3+ months at sea, with rations running low and just happy to have found land, I can imagine some didn’t mind not shaving, or keeping their beards.

Sunflower seeds is the most compelling evidence for me. The terracotta sculptures too Idk why you're so allied to that pineapple

@levilivengood4522

2 жыл бұрын

the sunflower seeds are indisputable evidence imo

Do you have a website?

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, linked in the description and at the end of every video

There have been many unplanned crossings of the Atlantic, generally associated with storm or freak winds. In many cases using craft much smaller than what was available to the Romans and other Mediterranean people. It is certainly a possibility.

10:25 Now, this sounds oddly similar to what That Japanese Man Yuta would say!

@Akuryoutaisan21

2 жыл бұрын

I see we share an algorithm lol

@bestrafung2754

2 жыл бұрын

In before Yuta covers the idea that Japan discovered North America and influenced tribes linguistically lol jk

It's possible that there was some kind of sparse trade going on and travel by happenstance, but I don't think they could navigate reliably that far. It's also possible that maybe trade from Africa was making it across to South America off and on.

@greggordon680

2 жыл бұрын

What navigation technology did later sailors have that they didn't? 0

@RadeticDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

@@greggordon680 from the 16th century onwards you get better precision from portuguese vessels. This means both in terms of heading and speed, sailing ships were better able to achieve, maintain and detect changes in their course, meaning the same methods of estimating your movement to apply back in a navigation chart worked better as a consequence. From the end of the18th century there were a few solutions to the longitude problem comming about in different countries and transatlantic navigation became something else. Moving across continents through the glacial shelves was always a possiblity to keep a steady route without those improvements mentioned above. Otherwise, we have to assume there were two ports at the same latitude in both continents and they had large enough ships to carry the food needed regardless of delays. Even though Amyr Klink managed to cross from Namibia (Africa) to Brazil (South America) in 100 days in 1984 in a powerless rowboat as a proof of concept, he used an oceanic stream to help him along the journey. Finding two of these to allow crossing both ways back then would be a fateful event indeed!

@patnor7354

2 жыл бұрын

If the polynesians could navigate the oceans without the tools of the age of sail, the Europeans certainly could as well...

@RadeticDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

@@patnor7354 could in the sense of potential, yes. Any society could have developed general relativity in terms of potential, as the human brain hasn't changed much. Could in the sense of readily available knowledge or a culture that had the necessary stepping stones in place? Then the answer is no, not realy. Cultura doesn't evolve always the same way in the same order of priorities.

A great follow up video on this… is the discovery of a sunken Roman ship with amphora in Brazil.

There must be other explorers from Asia or the Sou5h Pacific that might have arrived long time before the European explorers. It will be interesting to research about the voyages from the South Pacific islands to America. Thanks for the information.

Hey love the videos I listen to them at work to help pass the time. I couldn’t help notice the visual noise. It may be because the room isn’t lit well enough and as a result your cameras ISO is set too high to compensate.

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

It's quite well lit; it's the color red of the couch. That color does bad on most screens.

This is one of those theories that I really hope is true, like the one that suggests that Japanese people made it to the American Southwest and left some words behind in the Zuñi language, or the one that has Phoenicians making it to Central America and possibly passing on the concept of writing to them. I hope they're true!

@therat1117

2 жыл бұрын

I mean it'd be nice if true but the 'Japanese' words in Zuñi are coincidence (see the Australian language whose pre-contact word for dog is 'dog'), and Central American writing has so little in common with the Phoenician alphabet that it is almost certainly not the case. Cool theory though. I prefer the one where the Phoenicians were the first people to circumnavigate Africa.

@stevenv6463

2 жыл бұрын

@@therat1117 to play devil's advocate, there is also contact diffusion (or something like that) where people hear of a technology and independently make their own.

@furlan1743

2 жыл бұрын

Phoenicians are really distant chronologically to the born of pre colombian society, and so, their scripts.

@rogeriopenna9014

2 жыл бұрын

@@furlan1743 distant chronologically to pre Columbian civilization? That depends WHAT civilization we are talking about.

@jarlnils435

2 жыл бұрын

There is a Bronze axe found with a 1500 years old wooden handle in the amazonas region, the axe head shows an oxen with nose ring. I say it is possible that they got there. By accident or not, I don't know. Did they manage to come back to europe? I don't know.

If the Polynesians could sail all over the place, why would you think the Romans could not? Why would they need to invent a fancy ship when others were doing it with a Kon Tiki raft?

@onemileperhour

2 жыл бұрын

This is a staggeringly stupid statement to make with such confidence. Staggering. The Romans could hardly sail across the English Channel

I love the echo in the room :)

Will have to finish video later, so I'm sorry if you mention him, but what are your thoughts on Brendan the Navigator? There's a great book called "The Brendan Voyage" which is an interesting read.

@therat1117

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, he likely discovered Iceland and probably founded the Irish monastic community that existed there before the Norsemen arrived. The tales seem to depict him finding an island with volcanoes, icebergs, and so on. He seems also to have gone via the Hebrides and Faroe Islands based on other descriptions. The rest of the Tale is a bit... fanciful.

The real question is: why did it take so long to find such a big continent like that? A "new" world compared to other continents yet very mysterious it seems.

@alphamikeomega5728

2 жыл бұрын

Recall that Columbus nearly starved on his journey there, in much more advanced ships.

@patrickhows1482

2 жыл бұрын

Underdeveloped nautical technology, it wasn't until the late middle ages that Europe developed ships such as the caravel. Ships of the classical period were designed for the Mediterranean and tended to hug the shore, also they weren't large enough to contain supplies for such a long voyage. The Vikings reached America by island hopping, Iceland to Greenland and then Greenland to America. Also from @ 400-1050 the European economy was too underdeveloped for any significant overseas trade and when overseas trade expanded it focused on the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East.

@cronchcrunch

2 жыл бұрын

Set sail across the Atlantic with no map and navigation equipment in the kind of boat they had access to back then. Your question will certainly be answered once you're totally lost and dying of scurvy and dehydration.

@jorehir

2 жыл бұрын

@@patrickhows1482 Sorry, but it's partly false. The average Roman cargo ship was some 50% larger than the Santa Maria. The largest ones over 5 times the Santa Maria. They were ocean worthy, as the 120 Roman ships that each year reached India testify.

@jorehir

2 жыл бұрын

@@cronchcrunch What map did the Vikings or Columbus have of America? And who says the Romans didn't have instruments? Stuff like the Antikythera Mechanism would have allowed excellent navigation. As for boats, see above.

Secrets of the Dead did an episode called "Carthage's Lost Warriors" in which some claim that the Carthaginians had contact with South America, and the last of them left their empire for the Amazon after the 3rd Punic War. There is even mention of this in a Roman book, but I forgot the author. It talks about it in the video if you are interested. So, if the Carthaginians could get there and back, so could the Romans. If the trade was lucrative enough, and the way known, men would have certainly been willing to risk their lives in order to get there.

There is a copper mine in Michigan we used in WW2 for brass production for ammo that was mined in ancient times… a large portion of Bronze Age bronze has been tied to this mine by mass spec analysis of trace elements… so someone was here

@WorldWokeApeCult

2 жыл бұрын

No, Bronze Age Aegean copper has not been sourced to Michigan. Go watch Scott Wolter''s video and look for the bait and switch.

Hola, se sigo desde Costa Rica. Te felicito por tu trabajo; este ha sido fuente de cultura para mi y familia. Me permito sugerir el siguiente video de J. J. Benitez que trata del "Secreto" de Colombo. Habla precisamente de otros europeos en América antes de él. Saludos y felicidades de nuevo.

@MariaMartinez-researcher

2 жыл бұрын

Saludos. Bibliotecaria acá, con experiencia en investigación bibliográfica histórica. Los libros de J.J. Benítez se clasifican en ciencia ficción o literatura/ficción, ya que no cumplen con los estándares requeridos para trabajos de historia. Sus libros no se consideran fuente confiable en el estudio histórico. Le recomendaría que busque el tema de los contactos entre Europa y América previos a Colón en bases de datos de artículos de la especialidad, como Scielo o Dialnet. También en los catálogos en línea de las bibliotecas públicas de su localidad o universitarias que reciban público externo. En ambos casos, los colegas en Referencia lo pueden guiar al mejor material disponible del tema que le interese. ✌

@miguelacuna2496

2 жыл бұрын

@@MariaMartinez-researcher Estimada doña María, muchas gracias por su gentil sugerencia. Se que los libros de Benítez son de ficción; en mi comentario hice mención de un documental, en KZread, donde Benítez en su condición de periodista visita algunas localidades españolas que han documentado la presencia de cultivos originarios de América mucho antes de la visita de Colón. Precisamente por eso me pareció oportuna la recomendación a Luke Ranieri.

@miguelacuna2496

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/mZmgvMFmdcqxdMY.html

@MariaMartinez-researcher

2 жыл бұрын

@@miguelacuna2496 Excelente. 👍

@alexandros6433

2 жыл бұрын

El secreto eran mapas portugueses pero para hacer la ruta a India

Hi Luke! I'm sorry if this is unrelated to the topic of the video, but I didn't know where else I could contact you. I've been using your Greek pronunciation chart for my language studies and have found that it works wonderfully well for when I want to practice pronouncing Greek as it was done in different eras. But I haven't been able to find a similar chart for Latin pronunciation and that's really unfortunate because I'm curious to know how very old Latin sounded like and how Latin eventually transformed into the modern Romance languages. Would it be possible to make a similar resource for Latin? Thank you!

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Yup! it's all at LukeRanieri.com and my audiobooks store

@aenesidemus8819

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Awesome! Thank you very much for this!

I would so love to hear Metatron weigh in on this!

I’ve read somewhere that a Roman ship wreck was found off the coast of the Brazil, (specifically Roman pottery found within the wreck), and that our military dictatorship at the time covered it up. I can’t find the article so if course I can’t verify so take it with a grain of salt, but very interesting. Edit: Nevermind I just saw that he addressed it

Man your voice is so soothing

Thanks to Thor Heyerdahl, we know that ancient egyptians had the means to reach America. We also know the romans sailed to the Canary Islands, which were in later centuries the starting point for the routes to the west due to the atlantic currents.

@michaelhammar2778

2 жыл бұрын

Visst men norrbaggen hade ju fel, foliehatten!

@Drachenlabyrinth

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelhammar2778 Haha, do you want to call me a tinfoil head for mentioning Thor Heyerdahl? Well, some of his ideas were too farfetched in my opinion. Crossing the atlantic with an old egyptian papyrus ship is still impressiv. Besides, I don't think there were established trade routes between romans and the new continent. But the What-If point of view is actually good stuff for fantasy stories, I think I will use it in the future.

@michaelhammar2778

2 жыл бұрын

@@Drachenlabyrinth 👍😀

I love this idea and I agree it _needs_ to be investigated further. And the following is coming from memory of non-expert: I thought the archeological evidence of the cultivation of pineapples showed that they were significantly less than what we would picture due to the appearance of pineapples in the modern Era. What I mean is that, since a pineapple is actually enlarged berries (so enlarged as to fuse together) and "the core" is actually a the stem that pineapple cultivation would have had much more individual berries for _most_ of its cultivated history. The image in the artwork you showed, appears to me as if the berries are already fused like in modern cultivation. Now, like I said this is basically conjecture because horrible with remembering dates, however, the dates of cultivated pineapples with fused berries should compared to the date of that art and see if art of fused berry (modern-ish) pineapple is plausible. Like if we look at medieval artwork of fruit and look at watermelons we can see the teensy-tiny edible part and the huge amount of inedible middle rind (the white part) and that is significantly closer to the modern Era than ancient Rome.

Amazing