while i agree that them selling STL's would be a game changer, it sounded from their article like they have no intention of doing that. it sounds like they just intend to use 3D printing to reduce production costs and difficulties on their end, but at the end of the day they are still just going to be selling boxed miniatures, not files.

@procrastinatinggamer

2 жыл бұрын

They’ve confirmed on Facebook that they have no plans to sell the STL files. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if they do something with selling the files down the road but they’d have to be careful about how they do it. The number of people who’d buy the models because they don’t have a way to print them isn’t gonna noticeably shrink, but they have to weigh it against people going to someone else who’s printing them and selling them for cheaper than Privateer. Like if someone in the local Warmachine community buys the STLs and offers to print them for anyone else in the community for little more than the material cost (and are willing to wait), that’s going to be a lot of a local community not giving Privateer any money and all they made was the profit on that one STL sale.

@jeffreygeorge8884

2 жыл бұрын

@@procrastinatinggamer What they could do would be license a handful of third-party print-on-demand providers who could make it possible to order ANY model in the line at any time, with no need for PP to keep all of them in stock in retail-ready packaging. I can see this being a good compromise between only selling models PP prints, and releasing the STLs into the wild, where they will certainly spread without generating any income for PP.

@procrastinatinggamer

2 жыл бұрын

@@jeffreygeorge8884 I can see that happening yeah. I was just listing options and considerations off the top of my head when writing that comment, didn't think about licensed providers.

@brianp6859

2 жыл бұрын

@@procrastinatinggamer Yeah that makes a lot of sense actually. They could even advertise this on their site and have allocations of licenses based on geography with printer farms/hobbyists coming to them. Hell maybe they could even do an Uber type system and wrap it all up in an app. (obviously would need a tighter vetting process but i think it's possible). Keeps the files and profits in their control but gives on demand printing in only slightly more time than printing it yourself.

@casualgaming2351

2 жыл бұрын

reduce production costs..and still take prices like before...200 usd for a starter army ? Thats a hard sell for new players,specially with all the games out there that you can start far cheaper. At the moment the sell sell classical battleboxes on there store. 1 warcaster and two warjacks...for 75 usd....old price was between 35-45 usd..and you had all the game material and more miniatures in it. PP is still in my opinion the best rule writer company out there(Warmachine is still one of my favorite games and Warcaster is how games should evolve in the future) but they have to forget that they are a Big Dog in the industry and that there only competitor is GW(they are not even on the same planet as GW anymore). They have to change there prices to be in line with the other companys that are in there niche area of the market..like malifaux or infinity.I hope that this edition will help them..but even the hardest of PP fanboys in my region think that PP is delusional when they think that they will get a lot of new players this way. The best way would be to make a patreon(or something directly on there hompage) and sell the files. A company that is far smaller then PP(titan forge) has up to 6000 patreon where everyone pays at least 8 usd per month). PP would get far more patreons.

Privateer Press have confirmed that they will not be selling the STL files

My take from the article was that they would sell you 3d printed models, not STLs of the models. The comments about overseas distributions being facilitated becaused 3d printed is a real deal for us here in brazil and other countries with not a lot of wargaming culture and very highprices for original miniatures

@howtowithjkl6246

2 жыл бұрын

That was my take from this article too. I dont think printed press are going to sell us the STLs to print at home, theyre developing parts that can be produced in countries to combat shipping fees.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I do agree - I thought I was clear in the video that releasing the STLs was more a hopeful speculation. I wasn't suggesting they are actually doing so, more just saying it would be amazing if they did. Ultimately, without a way to copy protect the STL, it would just be a huge loss to sell it.

@YeAuldGrump

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis Which does little to help the declining volume of sales. I love our 3D printer, but it does not have a high production in regards to volume and does have a higher cost per model - it sounds more like the 3D prints are only going to slow, not stop, the decline of Privateer Press. Which is a shame - I still have my Trenchers hidden away, somewhere.

@adamoligschlaeger2516

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis I am the community manager for PP and would love to speak with you on getting some swag!

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

@@adamoligschlaeger2516 my socials are linked in the video description, if you'd like to get in touch!

Glad to hear it. Though in my hobby stores, they were cutting out mini's all together. So while I thought it was bad for WarMachine, I was watching Kings of War, Mallifaux, Warlord mini's and Flames of War all disappear from the shelves of my favourite hobby shops to be replaced by board and card games. So sad

Warmachines MkII was probably the most gaming time I spent in one system. The advent of MKIII coinciding with GW getting their shit together really screwed them up. I will be watching MKIV Warmachine with a lot of interest.

@TrangleC

Жыл бұрын

GW getting their shit together? I have been out of the hobby for like 12+ years or so. I had been playing 40k from the end of 3rd Edition till half a year or so into 6th edition and dabbled a bit in Hordes at the same time. Back then Privateer Press seemed to do everything right Games Workshop did wrong and pretty much everybody considered Warmachine/Hordes the clearly superior game, with better rules, better balancing and cheaper miniatures. Now that I recently got interested in tabletop gaming again and looked up on KZread what was currently going on in this world, the impression I got so far was that basically both games are fucked. GW seems to be up to their old shennanigans, with shitty rules, ridiculous power creep and people basically being pushed towards playing ever bigger and bigger armies while at the same time struggling to even get the ridiculously overpriced miniatures and the supply situation with Privateer Press miniatures seems so bad that it almost killed their game. Your comment is basically the only positive thing I heard or read about GW since I'm "back".

I've been buying warmahordes lots on huge clearance, solely because I like the models and want to paint them. Maybe I'll be able to play with them someday.

@theworldsays4264

2 жыл бұрын

Well you are in luck Unlimited Arena mode allows you to play with any model

@rainer.1276

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah me too. I like the models a lot so even if some dont see the table being able to paint them is still worth it on the second hand market.

As a long time player i am excited for the changes, but am approaching it cautiously until more info is available.

I might of misunderstood the announcement mate but I don’t think they’re releasing STL files. I think they’re selling 3D printed minis to consumers so their method of manufacturing isn’t resin spin cast, plastic injection or metal cast … it’s 3D printing the minis.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

No no mate, you're quite right, that's definitely exactly what they said - I was speculating in the video that since they're printing the product, it may be possible that they at some point release the files. I wasn't saying they're doing so from day one.

@BlackJackLegacy

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis it’s interesting that 3D printing is their choice of manufacture but I don’t see any of the bigger companies who rely on miniature sales ever going down the route of just putting STL files out into the wild. It’ll kill their entire business model especially when the dukes are free and they’ve moved away from selling printed materials.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

I think the secret will be when they find a way to copy protect an STL somehow - but until that innovation comes, I agree that it's not likely... But it IS a hope. An industry where you can print OR buy your minis would be hugely beneficial to everyone, I think.

@BlackJackLegacy

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis it’s good for the 3D printing consumer but not the manufacturer or retailer and that’s why we’ll not see it in the near future. Companies like OPR are really a 3D Patreon service not a miniatures company. Any company built around selling miniatures (as most have been) need to sell minis unsurprisingly.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree, it definitely needs to be beneficial to all parties before it's possible. But... It's good to hope, and to speculate, I think. To try to imagine how that future could look and what could lead to it.

Many years ago, I worked for a time as a buyer/purchaser for a now-defunct game distributor here in the US. I was in Seattle for a trade show and called up my rep at Privateer Press to see if I could come by and check out their facility. They graciously accepted and gave me an in-person tour. That would have been awesome enough, but the kicker that I didn't know at the time was that the distributor company I worked for was in pretty dire financial straights even back then. We were 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' so-to-speak and hadn't paid Privateer Press for our orders from them for a while. They NEVER ONCE brought that up while I was there. In fact, they treated me like an honored guest. After I found out what was going on with my company months later, it definitely shed a new light on my visit. I felt like a naive fool for having called them up like nothing was wrong and asking for a tour when we owed them quite a bit of money from orders I was making from them, but weren't being paid in a timely manner. 😓 I will always have great respect for them for treating me as well as they did and being incredibly professional about the whole situation. They understood that I was new to the job and definitely didn't know what was going on internally with my company. I wish them complete success in this new version of Warmachine and I hope that this brings them back to game stores in force!

I love the idea of Warmahordes, and their rulesets are great. I wish they'd build in rules for generic and custom 'casters (which is why i'm significanly more interested in their Sci-Fi game Warcaster), but this is a good direction to go in.

@maximem.ste-marie3578

2 жыл бұрын

well, in way they are doing it. Some casters have their own spell and can choose a number of spells "from the rack" wich is a selection of spells available to all warcasters. And there is A LOT of spells available.

@rainer.1276

2 жыл бұрын

I agree for the most part. I like having characters that are cool but would like to make my own warcaster as well.

Played warma/hordes since 2009, I'm going to take a wait and see approach, mainly due to the fact that my main two factions won't have rules for a while but also just to see the quality of everything (gameplay, model quality, order quality), or mainly hoping for a resurgence of a press ganger (volunteer TO)like option to grow the local meta.

I'm not gonna lie, I was under the impression that Warmachine/Hordes was discontinued. I haven't met any one that has even heard of the game in five years and my gaming group tried to play it about seven years ago and it didn't click with them. We've moved on to Battletech/Alpha Strike. I suppose I have an excuse to finally paint my circle minis that have been collecting dust in the garage.

@flameknightdragon

2 жыл бұрын

I mean the game was basically dead. Also do not bother all pre mk4 models are now legacy armies. they will get no new models, no balance passes. and from one of the discords. will be at a 10%-25% disadvantage since legacy armies will not be getting the full command card list, warjack/warbeast customizations, can caster customizations. on top of the fact hordes will not be supported until the end of 2023.

@jamesflanagan3086

2 жыл бұрын

My local wargaming friends what what I call "gamer ADD". They'll play the new shiny game till a new one comes out. Sometimes they'll go back and play a game again, but then the new shiny comes along... Sadly Warmachine/Hordes was immune to this, but our Pressgangers moved on and it pretty much died.

@snarkymcsnarkface1863

2 жыл бұрын

We only dusted off our minis because of the lock downs. We bad not touched a warmachine model for a game since mk3 launched. That is what eivht years ago now probably more.

@TheRainman614

2 жыл бұрын

Why? They won't have rules until the end of 2023.

@Cybrdra6on

2 жыл бұрын

Well, that's really disappointing. So supporting the old models is just lip service it seems.

What does a company need to make 3-d printing work? They need a deal with a reputable 3-d printer company and should provide stores (not individuals) a discounted printer and materials to ensure models printed at any store are of the same quality. They need all of their models available to stores for licensing. They can even use the printer they recommended/sold to ensure only authentic print files are used. Choose the means for delivering the rules and other printed materials, be it commercial printing, print on demand, or combination of both. Shortly, the industry is going to face the same decisions that music stores, book stores, and movie rental stores had to make. You either change with the times or die.

I miss playing Warmachine! Hordes is that same as Warmachine, just slight difference in your primary resource (Fury vs. Focus) and big beasts instead of steampunk robots. Hopefully this revitalizes Warmahordes, i would love to get back in it.

They did it once, they were the first big game to have volumetric line of sight - the models were basically cylinders - most of the games now are doing this as it removes a lot of wonkiness. They had other minor new ideas that are now standard too.

I adored this game so much in 2nd edition, probably the most fun I've ever had wargaming. Such a shame when it just totally died at the launch of 3rd ed. Super looking forward to it.

@leewilde8947

2 жыл бұрын

It was an amazing game until units became the focus over the machines, Ruined it for me

@maevethefox5912

2 жыл бұрын

@@leewilde8947 I liked my Cryx Satyxis build, though even that had like Deathjack and 2 Seethers, so was hardly infantry heavy. I played Feora 2 and Sev 2 and...whoever the Elfy 'Jack caster was, plus that Beast only Troll caster so solidly agree

@snarkymcsnarkface1863

2 жыл бұрын

@@maevethefox5912 my second favorite list was vyros2 Griffin spam. That just just got stupid. My favorite will always be rahn and "bowling for knockdowns" a caster that can rip someone across the table then just assassinate them with everything was always fun and funny. Because if you failed it hurt...

Hordes was basically Warmachine but with big monsters instead of Warjacks. Rules were exactly the same and you could play a Warmachine vs. Hordes game. Rolling them together is long overdue. Iron Company is the smaller skirmish version of Warmachine.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Oh awesome! Thank you for the enlightenment!

@ShawnEnge

2 жыл бұрын

Are they still doing anything with Iron Company? I was looking into it when I got into WMH a few years ago, but they seemed to dry up all the resources. I prefer the skirmish games over huge army games

@willschoonover8654

2 жыл бұрын

@@ShawnEnge I was the lead dev on Company of Iron. It was a strange little experiment that never had the high level support it needed to become a "real" game. Without No Quarter magazine, there wasn't an easy way to support the game, and eventually development of Riot Quest and Warcaster took priority.

Warmachine has had free rules for a while now, just the app was paid, but the cards have been free for years! Gotta hand it to PP, they've always promoted not gouging their customers for things that they shouldn't be expected to pay for, so between the new app and the pushed magnetization, they're just continuing what they've always been good for. While I'm personally not stoked about the new rules, the other changes being made are great, and I hope it leads to bigger and better things!

One of the things I am super hype for is the load out changes you can do in between games. I play competitive Warmachine and will be attending NOVA this year to play in the team and Masters tournament. Normally, you keep your two list army pairing throughout the entire tournament. The fact that now, I can change out my Warjacks/Beasts load out in between matches is mind blowing. I've been playing this game since the early 2000's and this has always been a concept discussed in the community, even back then. Now, I can swap out melee weapons and guns to tailor to not just my strategy but flexibility into other armies. It's pulling away from the rock, paper, scissors match-ups we currently see in the MK3 meta. Don't get me wrong, I feel like MK3 is the best feel for WMH thus far. Each edition of the game that comes out has only gotten better in my opinion. Our gaming community is super optimistic and excited to see what MK4 will be like. We're also super hyped to meet and play with new players coming to or back to the game. It's a great time to play and we welcome anyone to the tables!

@memnarch129

Жыл бұрын

Have they confirmed your allowed to do that? Or are you just speculating.

@tnterica4599

Жыл бұрын

@@memnarch129 change out rack spells in between rounds only. Speculation earlier :)

@ianlacey6588

Жыл бұрын

Changing load outs makes each warjack indistinguishable from a modern warplane where the armament is tailored to the mission. If you know the scenario before you play this can be planned but scissors-rock-paper. PP’s best innovations, were the War Room app incorporating the rules and trading paper codexes and rule books for a package that will work on an app. Then digitising the cards so you could print on demand the cards you need. That saved PP the hassle of issuing card packs at regular intervals.

Hordes is the critter focused version of Warmachine. Warmachine factions tend to focus on the steampunk 'bots, while Hordes focuses on monsters in place of the 'bots.

Hoards is not skirmish level. It’s a second set of armies with slightly different rules for how their large models work because they are living and not robots. WarMachine and Hoards have always been compatible so putting them together makes total sense.

I think getting rid of books is the way some companies are leaning referring to the app. I was at Historicon 2022 last week and spoke with the people from Mythic Americas/Warlord games and was told they want to do away with hard copies of books. This they said was easier for gamers who had phones and tablets as well as the ease of FAQ and rules changes. They are actually starting to use a new app in conjunction with Warlord Games for this purpose. I see 3d printing being an obvious next step in the pursuit of quality and manufacturing costs.

So, this reminds me of a tangentially related topic for companies that might be doing a hybrid lineup of models. The STL and resin model maker Reptilian Overlords just did a partnership with Wargames Atlantic to do hard plastic On-the-Sprue miniatures for their SpaceNam line. From what I can tell (and i could be wrong) the hard plastic ones would be the more rank and file troops. I don't know if this is a tactic more suited to lines without dedicated games, or if it could work for something more traditional.

Re: Warmachine compared to Hordes, they are two halves of the same game. Warmachine focuses on the more technological / steampunk factions. Hordes focuses on the more primitive / magical factions. Same game scale, and the forces can be played against each other. Just different emphases.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the clarification!

@cambeul

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis Another difference was in Warmachine a Warcaster (your General) would have a Pool of Focus that they can use to Cast Spells or Power up the Warjacks, vs. Hordes where the Warlock (your other General) would take the Fury from their Warbeasts that they generated from doing actions, that would allow the Warlock to Cast Spells. Warbeasts if they Generated too much Fury that the Warlock couldn't Syphon off had a chance to go wild and attack the closest models around them friend or foe. Both great mechanics.

@memnarch129

Жыл бұрын

Technically its JUST Warmachine now. Hordes is being rolled into the Warmachine rules. Why? Cause about 90% of the rules in the games are identical anyway. So you have 4-5 pages explaining the differences instead of making 2 rules sets where 36 pages of them are identical.

I was on the fence about privateer press but it’s good to hear things may get better

Warmachine was what got me back into tabletop after a long break when I went to university, but oddly enough it's also the game that got me into Infinity. I was dissatisfied with the way Warmachine treated scenery as more of a hindrance and tournaments only used the most basic card tremplates to denote hills and forests. Being something of a scenery guy I looked around for games that made use of scenery as an intrinsic part of the aesthetic and tactics of a game and found Malifaux and N2 Infinity as niche games with tables and minis that looked amazing. I hope the new WM rules improve on their weak previous attempt as the system is great when it works well. Not being a huge tournament player I'd like to see more options for narrative and scenario games. 3d printing as the main focus could indeed be a big change in direction for the industry.

They really need to change the massive issue with warmachine where you can look at a list and decide who wins the game without rolling a dice.

@seriouspoulp3337

2 жыл бұрын

I am not a warmachine player, but that sounds like any other wargame out there

@flameknightdragon

2 жыл бұрын

@@seriouspoulp3337 the issue is most other you still had a fighting chance. in warmachine you had none.

Even before GW went completely downhill, I've been cheering for Privateer Press and Corvus Belli for their amazing models, universe, and better overall gameplay. It made me quite sad that PP seemed to be going under, but this news really made my heart warm. I constantly tell people in my gaming community about both of them, and I'm happy to have converted a few peeps as well. Here's hoping this lights the way to greener fields :)

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Fingers crossed! Really hopeful we'll see a successful PP making a great game, that's accessible and engaging.

@Mystyx-Sama

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis Warcaster from PP is also a really good idea too. Making the games smaller is almost always a good idea for both time and money, thus making it way more easy for newbies to get into and such. Again, here's hoping! 3D-Printing IS the future, no doubt about that, and any miniature company going WITH this reality has a lot more to gain than lose IMO. It's simply where things are going. If PP can find a way to sell the STL files while still making a profit, then that will seal the deal for sure. It's kind of exciting actually - in a nerdy way lol

@casualgaming2351

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mystyx-Sama when a company like titan forge can do it(up to 6000 patreons) then a company like PP can do it with ease.

@rainer.1276

2 жыл бұрын

100% agree. I like Privateer and Corus Belli a lot.

@mrbushi1062

Жыл бұрын

How on earth did GW go down hill?

Just an FYI - PP will NOT be selling any STL files at all. You can buy their 3D printed models though.

It’s was so grim for so long with Warmachine players! I’m a big Khador player and now this is amazing my!!!

As much as I liked Warmahordes, the ultra elitist player base was a real turn off. That was part of the issue when it was big at my FLGS, the player base made new players uncomfortable, and wasn't very welcoming due to it' ultra competitive nature that wasn't helped by the tournament format provided by PP (steamroller format) .....timers, a shrinking table size, etc.

@03dashk64

2 жыл бұрын

This was my problem as well. It was so hyper competitive, it wasn’t fun. I generally dislike hyper competitive games overall, but Warmachine took it to absurd levels. When people started breaking out multiple rulers and templates to preplan their entire turns, I was done. Even just changing the rules to make sure you couldn’t pre-measure made it more fun.

@kelsosharp2170

2 жыл бұрын

You just play at bad places, it doesn’t have to be that way, it’s the choice of the people you play with not the game itself

@rainer.1276

2 жыл бұрын

Its funny because in the same comment section you will see people complain that there were too many try hards and people complain there wasnt enough serious players. Or one that says its no fun but you had no choices and others say you had too many choices. Perspective is a weird thing.

@03dashk64

Жыл бұрын

@@kelsosharp2170 if the game is built toward that style of player though, it attracts that style of player. Sure, anything can be fun with a certain group. But I was speaking broadly of my experience with both my local community and the way the game is presented

@kelsosharp2170

Жыл бұрын

@@03dashk64 This has not been my experience, I have found that it is possible to have both, competition and enjoyment, the key is to encourage sportsman like conduct in the community and to call out bad actors or refuse to play with that particular person, however I do understand that you cannot do that as a single person in a group of bad actors and it can be very off putting. Especially if it’s the only group in the area

I actually used Retribution of Scyrah models for a Custom Eldar Army for 40k

Hordes is just a different flavor of warmachine in the same world, with a few mechanics tweaks, that can play its armies against warmachine armies and vice versa.

Warmachine & Hordes never took off in my area, and the models for it were setting on shelves for years untouched at my LGS. So I made an offer & bought out their entire inventory at a huge discount, built & converted them for use in D&D games. Warhammer is king in my area so, even with the changes PP is making, it's all but guaranteed that nobody will pick the game up here.

I hear ya I am as well an Iron kingdoms/ Warmachines Lore Junky and getting access to more lore on almost a weekly basis is awesome.

I went hard into Warmachine at the start of Mk III. Khador, even getting a MKII starter set. I enjoyed MkIII, never having played an earlier version, but after hearing from a lot of the vets, I can see why they didn't like it as much. I love the Models, and the lore. Luckily I still have my old Khador force, so if it does make a comeback I might be able to put them to use

@theworldsays4264

2 жыл бұрын

Unlimited Arena mode you can play any model

@rainer.1276

2 жыл бұрын

Unlimited will be everything and a second format "Prime" will have a smaller list of available models. I hope at least some of my stuff ends up being in Prime. It kind of suck but I understand the choices Privateer had to make.

@theworldsays4264

Жыл бұрын

@@rainer.1276 I guess since I play BattleTech, the idea of having all eras tournaments/games and current era tournaments/games makes sense. The new Prime era and Clan Ill games but then open format from the previous eras makes sense. Really matters as players what we want to play and organize. One or the other or both.

I've always loved the Iron Kingdoms (from their early D&D adventures and world book). I've painted several of the models. I will try to find a some players in my area to give this edition a go.

@flameknightdragon

2 жыл бұрын

well it might be hard since entry level prices for MK4 is $200 for a starter box.

@SergiPonsFreixes

2 жыл бұрын

@@flameknightdragon $200 is not the price of a starter box, it is the price of the full army boxes. With one of these boxes you are good to play a full 50 points game with warcaster, warjacks, units and solos. There are no small starter boxes anymore.

The 3 elements you focused your video on (free rules/pay wall for lore, games based on 3d printing, less SKU) are very good. They could truly make a game more accessible although I can see a couple of potential dangers (bad quality resin and stores slowly becoming obsolete if they won't have the exclusive right to STL files).

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

As it stands at time of announcement they aren't actually selling the files - they're just using 3D printing as their method of manufacturing them. I was simply speculating/hoping that perhaps they could be talked in to releasing the files, perhaps.

So, my biggest issues with Warmachine was the blatant flaws with balance. I used to play tournaments and when half the tournament showed up with miserable meat mountains (trollbloods) because of their ridiculous rules. Then we had a guy only bring one list with sorcha 1 to prove a point (he destroyed the entire tournament) then their is that legion archer chick who is stupid. I wish they built their game with balance in mind because it’s a horrible skew meta

@rainer.1276

2 жыл бұрын

That sounds like the MK2 or MK1 days. I am glad things arent like that anymore. I think the game is the most balanced as it has ever been> I think its so funny to see people say how great MK2 was when it really wasnt.

im one of those ppl that buy and paint cool looking models and there have been some really cool ones ive liked via hordes or warmachine but i dont like the combo of metal and resin combo miniatures. for a beginner they can be very daunting so moving over to 100% plastic/resin would be a god send for newer ppl like me. the bit how they are saying they making models with magnetization in mind is all ways a plus specially when you see how ppl are nuts are for doing in WH40k, if GW said something like that ppl would throw more money at them.

@michaeljdauben

2 жыл бұрын

I first dipped my toes into WM when their Warjacks were all metal. They were a huge pain to work with and required a lot of work to assemble well. I think their newer big models are PVC style plastic (I have not bought any WM or Hoards stuff for years)? Probably much easier to work with.

Interesting, I will keep an eye on this one

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I love Warmachine but have watched it “die” over the last few years, and feel like it’s models are looking a bit dated. Hopefully Privateer can revolutionise the game. Hype!

2:55 holy shit that's a ballsy move, good on them

I was told by a good gaming friend that the release of the 3rd edition about killed the game for most players. I played during 1st and second edition which the rules were really easy. But 3rd was apparently way harder to follow and understand. So the players quit playing and jump ship back to 40K which became easier to play with rule changes for the good. And them Age of Sigmar came out shortly after with easier rules over Warhammer fantasy. The true difference of Warmachine and Hordes was Warmachine was mechanical based. Hordes was more creatures based. I hope this helps. Oh I look forward to getting back into 4th and knocking the dust of the old Khador war jacks for some good battles.

@SuperEagle112

2 жыл бұрын

I started playing about halfway through mk.2 and it was a blast to play. When mk.3 was announced I was excited…. In my opinion, the introduction of colossals/gargantuans and the theme forces giving free units killed it. It was always the same stuff being taken (usually) That being said I’m hyped for this more than I thought I would.

@alexgreenwood711

2 жыл бұрын

Since Covid, Privateer Press had numerous issues with making and shipping of their new minis due to them being produced in China. They also had a lot of their veteran game designer jump ship into other projects or companies. If you couple this with how GW was not back into action after having their head up their asses for the last 15 years, this was a recipe for disaster for Privateer Press. They were not able to keep up with demand, while having trouble offering a good new balanced ruleset and their competition was not sleeping anymore. I have not great hopes for MK4, but I guesss we will see.

@vepristhorn8278

2 жыл бұрын

I picked it up in Mk2 and played into the release of Mk3, I didn't play long into Mk3 I hated Mk3 and moved to other games and only looked back because the I like the models and world but I'm not paying wargame prices for a system that is unbalanced and not fun

@MaskedRiderChris

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, I came on board at the end of MK1 and the beginning of MK2, and the rules system & army point system were far better in MK2, IMO.

They are not asking you to print your models, they are using industrial 3d printers to manufacture the models they sell to you.

Hordes is the "Warhammer Fantasy" to Warmachine's "Warhammer 40k", except they both take place simultaneously in the same game world... so Hordes armies are far less technologically adept and more nature oriented, and tended in earlier editions to use a few different mechanics to represent this while using largely the same game system.

I don't see them switching to selling stl files for complete models, that just promotes other people printing and selling the models and them making the rules free through the app just further limits the product they can sell. I expect they will sell stl files for alternate model pieces and upgrade kits instead. Either way its going to be a massive shot across the bow of GW with how many Warhammer players are very upset about how draconian GW has been with 3d printing. Warmachine and Hordes has always been playable together, even way back in 1st edition, they had a special rules bit about using armies from both settings to fight each other but it was pretty clunky and basicly had both armies ignoring some abilities and conditions. If Warmachine was Privateer Press's version of 40k then Hordes was their version of age of sigmar or fantasy.

Cool to see the app and free rules and stats. That really does seem to be the standard now

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah - maybe in like 5 years GW will start doing it too 😂

Warmachine was the first game I ever really got into as a tabletop game. I'm really excited about the release of MK4, as I feel taking the time to reset everything to make the game new again is much needed.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

It'll be my first entry in to it, despite it being on my radar for probably 10 years? I'm definitely excited too!

@cryptic_smoothie9445

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! It makes me happy to see Privateer embracing the same mindset that Corvus Belli has about having a living rulebook and embracing the future.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Here's to hoping that these forward thinking, customer focused trends, become the norm for the long-term

Market competition is working!!!!

I've always enjoyed Warmachine/Hordes as a game, I just think the models weren't nearly as good as Games Workshop and others stuff. Someone had told me years ago that Privateer press is a GAME company that makes models, whereas Games Workshop is a MODEL company that also makes games. Which always made a lot of sense to me. I just wish they would up the model quality and I'd probably invest into their games. (Not counting the weird monster city fighting game they came out with which seems to be dead on arrival) I'm not sure 3D printing will be the answer unless they have access to some truly good 3D printers, software, and people who know what they're doing. I've tried buying 3D printed stuff the past year or two and most of it is worse quality than the majority of mini games imo. The magnetizing bit is a brilliant idea though. It sounds like they're trying to do a hail mary to try and bring some players back from GW stuff lol

@michaeljdauben

2 жыл бұрын

IMO the difference between GW and PP miniatures has more to do with style and anesthetics than quality. GW covers their miniatures with loads of details and bling. PP miniatures tend to to be a bit simpler in terms of surface details. It comes down to which style you prefer, I think. If you like GWs style better, there's nothing wrong with that.

@fateweaver9844

2 жыл бұрын

The plastic models were ass for the most part. The resin Khador models were nice but resin is a PITA.

@DCAMM720

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaeljdauben I agree to an extent. PP stuff seems to be more...cartoony I guess? Which is all well and good. But the lack of detail and/or sometimes "muddy" details on a lot of sculpts pushed me away from the game. Some of the Hordes factions had beautiful stuff but still not as detailed as GW product, which is important to me personally.

I really like the lore and was really fond of the Trollbloods but I couldn't bend my head around the animus abilities; don't know I had WM dslexia but Hordes ran "backward" than WM. Glad I kept my Trollbloods so trolls chucking flaming caber or carrying huge rocks for mana will see table time again.

I think you should give it a try. Warmachine and Hordes used to be two separate but compatable games, but some factions really work by having a mix of the rules so it's great that they integrated them since 95% of the rules were identical. It's a very quick and brutal game and really benefits players who invest in an army and play style. It's a great system for players who like to build their forces towards a goal and put the pieces on the board that get them there. Plus unlike other games a small game of 3-4 pieces a side can be just as engaging and tactical as a huge game with 2-30 pieces a side. I played it in the second edition and have never sold any armies hoping that they would take the big step and bring it out in this kind of format. I'll be tapping my old gaming buddies to play some more, that's for sure.

The fact they could print/manufacture Warmachine in the UK or EU, create jobs, not deal with mounds, etc, means they could finally have reliable sales for you. Faster. And create more jobs.

@casualgaming2351

2 жыл бұрын

that they will create new jobs will not really happen..they will check for the cheapest company in the area and will work with them to get the most out of there margins.

@SamOnMaui

2 жыл бұрын

@@casualgaming2351 possibly although working at a small print shop? It's still revenue in country. Would you prefer they keep the status quo or just outsource to printers in China?

Ok so seven months later it seems that the 3D-printing is a frankly desperate cost cutting measure. The models are still shockingly expensive and quality seems varied. Prices seem to be at least partially influenced by horrid logistics and just the fact that PP is holding on for dear life. PP doesn't seem intent on releasing the files either.

As a long-time WarmaHordes player I'm excited for the new changes. My wallet may or may not be depending on the changes and new models. Fortunately my local WMH community is very good and positive. I've heard others aren't so much...

Great stuff friend 👏 👍

Hordes is the skin and bones only equal of warmachine the formats were entwined and could play armies from either against each other

I'm 99% certain they're saying that they're going to use 3d printing for their production, not sell the consumer 3d printing files. 3D printing is far from being common in the hobby, and is also a lot more investment and commitment than just buying miniatures. It's still extremely niche to 3d print miniatures for war gaming, and that's because it's not easy to start 3d printing (decent) miniatures.

@darschpugs4690

2 жыл бұрын

I don't see how 3d printing then selling the models is any different then how they currently sell model kits, except the 3d printed models are typically lower quality with layer lines and usually look like garbage compared to the usual kits they sold in the past.

@user-ff2mu4fh4v

2 жыл бұрын

@@darschpugs4690 the logistics are extremely different. With 3d printing you can setup production in many places for a low cost and sell on demand, ensuring you're never really out of stock or left with too much stock. You also don't have to pay huge investments for plastic molds for every single model, so this way they can make way more model varieties. It's a game changer for everyone involved.

Hordes is not a smaller engagement scale, it's about the same size as Warmachine. They only difference is in the more primal/savage theme and "focus" equivalent resource called "fury". They use warbeasts instead of warmachines.

Good analysis

Greebo Games has started to produce their Minis in 3d printed resin they Call GreeBlood, and man they are AMAZING, and most of them are Single Piece, where if they were cast in Metal they could potentially be 3 to 4 pieces depending on the model. If PP did the same thing, and then adding in Slots for Rare Metal Earth Magnets that would sweet for being able to buy less kits to get all weapon options.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

I posted a Greebo lizardman to my instant a few weeks back, which was the first piece of their I'd done. I was VERY impressed with the quality.

A good compromise (maybe) would be a marketing or distribution scenario where they sell the STL files to local distributors and or stores that are interested in being able to sell the product without taking up shelf space. Possibly the best of all worlds that way they are not cutting out the shop owners

sounds like Warmachine is becoming more consumer-friendly... and i like that! i absolutely hate the nickel and dime aspect of wargaming......

As some one who has an extra calvary model because they sell in sets of three and unit max size is 5..... *Sigh* am happy for fewer sku

Hordes is just the monster based instead of the "Mech" based armies that live in the universe (Trollbloods, Legion, Skorne, etc.) I'm super pumped about this and excited to pick the game back up.

If they'rer selling 3D printed models, it will very much depend on the quality of those models when bought compared to the price. As far as STL's, I'm not sure how that would work as once someone's bought an STL, there's no limit to how many prints they can do and that will cut into mini sales and even STL sale. Ulness they've come up with a way to make limited run STLs, but I doubt that.

Don't mind me, just feeding the algorithm

This whole announcement feels like a consolidation of PP into a smaller and leaner company. If they limit their support to the US then the game will stay on the fringes. Using 3D Printers but not offering STLs may also hurt them and limit expansion internationally. Historically, PP have not been good in arranging timely shipping for international retailers, or stock levels were an issue. By offering STL files they can fix both of those issues at once. I played a lot of Warmachine/Hordes during MK2 but lost my enthusiasm when MK3 came out. Hopefully they sort out these logistical issues and we see a return to the glory days.

@memnarch129

Жыл бұрын

They offer the files then someone sells the files at 1/3 the cost printed and PP goes under. They CANT really do that. Maybe if its a liscencing thing, with specific authorized printers only and setting prices for prints. But then you STILL have the issue of one "Rogue" guy gets lisence, gets the STLS, proceeds to give them away for free to people with 3D printers and next thing is every tom dick and harry can print models for pennies without paying PP anything. Now that they arnt selling the rules the Minis are the ONLY source of income for Warmachine. So taking the risk that someone may break a agreement and freely hand out the files is TOO big a risk imho. Also the bigger problem for PP in the past from what I understand wasnt them, it was distributors. They didnt want to order PP stuff and have it on hand. Players and Stores did but Distributors didnt and basically where just dropping orders, meaning the person had the store order from distributor and then the distributor just wouldnt order the product. This was why with Warcaster they did the Kickstarters. Cause the distributors where basically both fucking the players/stores AND PP.

My opinion on Mk4 is it is many years overdue, I question if they will be able to reclaim even a small percentage of the players lost with Mk3 even if it is good

Hordes is a sort of Sister game to Warmachine. The differences are tone; organic monsters and lower tech in Hordes vs Steampunk magi-tech in Warmachine; and the magical power system; Fury in Hordes as Risk Management vs Focus in Warmachine as Resource Management. It has been compatible for play since inception, takes place in the same world, has had cross over models, narrative events, and general lore. Basic mechanics, stats, and rules were otherwise consistent across the two lines. The specifics get into the lore pretty quickly. Trollkin, for example, have a sort of 1st People situation with two major powers in Warmachine, and their story is about forced relocation, reclaiming ancestral power, and eventually making some kind of a peace with one of the two powers. Skorne are an invading force, lead by the disposed leader of a Warmachine power, and later on, entering an alliance with another Warmachine power to ambush and dissect demons. It's always been a very permeable border between the two games, so the combination of the lines is consistant with the overall goal of simplifying the game and compressing SKU's. The rules in the beta document for Warlocks and Warbeasts are basically the same as in Mark 1, 2, and 3.

PP, Corvus Belli, and Mantic (who has done something similar to this for a long time) are really trying to make gaming more accessible.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

It's truly great to see!

I was optimistic until the more people have asked the less positive the answers when it comes to some Factions who got it rough in the recent Lore. Protectorate and Retribution are almost entirely being written off as casualties and were the Factions me and my brother both played as well as multiple of my friends. Others like Skorne and Cryx are being left questionable at best and some like Everblight almost seem to have been forgotten. With the swap to 3D printing, that backlog of models they built up are more than likely to be erased rather than being rebuilt digitally as 3D sculpts for a Made to Order system so they are prone to be erasing any chance at taking advantage of their lengthy cataloge for the sake of playing older editions or simply favorite Factions that are going to ultimately be dropped.

@kahchey6574

2 жыл бұрын

Dusk House Kallyss is supposed to come out next April so Ret is eventually getting something but as a Protectorate player myself, yeah it kinda stings not knowing when or if something is coming.

Just getting back into painting figures as a way to relax so more interesting things to paint is a big plus. Not sure that I really want to dive into having to learn how to 3D print things so go in the shop and find something interesting is the way I want to go.

They're not selling STLs, if that's what you're getting at.

Been a long time player I'm very exited about the future. Feel a few nerves with what is going to happen with my current collection etc.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I can see why there'd be nerves. Hopefully the legacy format will receive good support.

It is certainly exciting. I stopped playing just after 3rd Edition released due to life, but if the changes in both 2nd and 3rd Editions are any indicator, this will help rebalance the game in a positive way. I'd be more excited if I was painting as much as I did a couple years ago, but life keeps getting busier...perhaps it's time to get that air brush I keep eyeing.

I see parallels between Wargaming and the Video Games industry right now. Big companies, long beloved by their adoring fans are making decisions which make the franchise objectively worse for the sake of profiteering, relying on undeserved loyalty to keep the fans paying. The answer to both is to walk away and look for alternatives. You, and your friends have a decent look around at other wargaming companies, maybe there is something fun out there which won't cripple you during the cost of living crisis.

@charleshill9546

2 жыл бұрын

Down here in deepest Ringwood Hamphire UK. We have discovered / rediscovered Warmaster. Current rules and army lists free to download, Models: plenty of STLs out there so entry cost really low and its the first time since the club formed some 4-5 years ago that we are all playing something we all like. I'm hoping that my and a friends Warma/Hordes collections can return to the tabletop [both stopped after 2nd] but not expecting to drop a lot of money a second time on this game. Really just a rulebook and access to the stats for models already owned would be enough for now. PS I prefer dead trees to digital reference materials

@casualgaming2351

2 жыл бұрын

@@charleshill9546 still such a great game.

They're not releasing the STL files. They're selling the 3D prints themselves in house.

My first introduction to Warmachine came at the same time as my first introduction to Infinity, and I regret not getting into both of them at the time. If I can find the time and money, unlikely, I might try and give War Machine a go this edition.

Hordes is just the flip side of Warmachine. They’re fully compatible but Hordes focuses on the “uncivilized” factions whose war leaders and powerhouse units use an inverse game mechanic. It fully makes sense to bring them together

I love the look of the trollbloods do if they release a get starting box for 200 dollar and under where I can atleast play a skirmish they got a new customer.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

It looks like a single starter army of around 20 models will be $200. I'm hoping there's some kind of 2 player buy in, or a smaller bundle, personally.

With all the options out there for very great stl files, I don’t know if there is a market for selling physical 3d printed products… If they don’t sell the stl which will certainly be the case and as many people including me will not buy physical minis, I hope the game will be a master piece if they want it to be a success… but honestly I think this business model will not work

@michaeljdauben

2 жыл бұрын

I think they would need to do hybrid releases. Three D printing at home is becoming more and more popular every year, but I think there are more gamers who don't own 3D printers than who do. Especially new players or more casual gamers. They need to cater to both markets.

@casualgaming2351

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaeljdauben just do a patreon and add a merchant tier...this way they have a steady stream of money every month(when a co like titan forge can get 6000 patreons then pp can get this number too)

Hand loader / reloader here which is an analog to 3d printing. Still buy loaded ammo as well. That can be the model ( pun intended) for figure mfg.

So the stuff with the app is actually kind of old news. Privateer has be doing that for over 10 years with the only exception being lore. But the 3d printing is a cool move. And while I haven’t touched my khador army in 6 years we I’m glad to hear it. If they could have all the mass produced troops be 3d printed and just have the centerpiece type models be the only ones that are made by the company then it would not only clean up shelf space but also make it easier for the store owners to push. Even make some extra money by offering 3d printing crevices. Also no more waiting 3 months for a unit.

Hordes is a pretty dope sister/companion game to warmachine. Use to be able to play both together. I wonder how Mk4 is gonna effect hordes. They have not gotten t he Sku reduction yet but a lot of those models are out of print due to their known production issues

I don't think it'll be that much of a game-changer, but it is a positive step and I do approve of it. However, the staleness of the setting, the staleness of their aesthetics when it comes to their miniatures, the competitive WM scene, and the people running the company are the real problems that PP has, and that's not something that seems to be addressed with this news. I have a 3d printer, though only an FDM one, but plan on getting a new resin printer this winter. So I might look into their designs, or just wait for their stuff to start showing up for free on Thingiverse or Cults. Which will inevitably happen, and will certainly damage the company more. Honestly, it is technically a dead game and company, but perhaps this will bring it back to life--for a short time.

I can't believe that the game turns 20 this year - still have an untouched Khador starter in white metal🤣. Sorry, Mr. Shy, the article mentions "kits" and states that 3d printing will solve "the challenges of manufacturing" - so, I guess that the use the method to fix logistical problems and not because they intend to sell individual files 🤷‍♂️.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's what it says, absolutely - my speculation about end user printing was exactly that, just hopeful speculation.

@chrisbeckett9748

2 жыл бұрын

@@TesseractMinis It also sounds totally plausible and I am sure that it will happen in the coming years. Cheers!

Hordes was the beasts as big bruises version to warmachines big chonking robots. Same overall thing but with different mechanics surrounding their control. Their biggest issue i would say is recapturing retailer confidence to help put them out there again. Mk3 and the many shenanigans surrounding its debut saw the game pretty much die in many areas. Retailers got stuck with stock that wouldn't move at any price. I would imagine they remember this very well. My FLGS wouldn't even touch Warcaster (the sci fi version of warmachine) for this very reason. A cleanup of the roster has been needed for a while now, each faction (the OG ones at least) has over a hundred unit entries. Some are consolidated in 1 SKU but most aren't. A streamlining would be the first step to getting retailers on board if the community shows enough interest. I want them to succeed and they seem like steps in the right direction but i can't help but wonder if these aren't signs of a dying company desperately trying to stay afloat.

It's kind of interesting really. The last time Warmachine/Hordes had a huge boost in profitability and adoption was when GW was screwing around with their customers and charging everyone out the wazoo. Warmahordes would have grown even more if not for their crippling supply issues. Depending on how they handle 3d printed distribution this could solve the issues regarding production. The reason i mention this is GW is now full tilt engaged in the same crippling anti consumer sentiment and prices which may pave the way for warmahordes (i guess now just branded warmachine) to literally have a repeat scenario. Time will tell if this can push PP back into the game. Also the quality of 3d printed minis can be on the level of GW quality (something that was always an issue for me with PP minis in the past, they were just shoddy models in my experience) so this could also give the game a huge boost.

I am pretty excited to b try out MKIV . I also like how they will have Unlimited Arena to play everything that has been released and another mode where it is just updated timeline models.

To answer your question about Hordes, it is not a smaller scale version of Warmachine (the name would in fact appear to suggest the opposite but it isn’t that either). Rather, Warmachine and Hordes are opposite sides of the same coin. The scale is exactly the same but the nature of the respective armies is very different. Warmachine is about warcasters - essentially wizards - who animate and direct warjacks, the eponymous steam-powered fighting machines; without a warcaster, they are useless. A variety of human units and individuals also serve alongside the warjacks. These do not require any expenditure of power from the warcaster, just a regular activation, but are nowhere near as powerful as the warjacks and their main function is in fact to protect the warcaster as if he/she is killed the battle is immediately lost. Hordes, on the other hand features forces of natural creatures who must be controlled by the equivalent of a warcaster (I’m not sure if this is the correct term as I have not played as a Hordes general though I have played against one). The control in this case is for the purpose of preventing the creatures going feral and being a nuisance to everyone, including their own side. An army of either type can play against another army of either type, depending purely on its faction. I have only played as a commander of Warmachines, and only in 2nd edition. My memory is a little fuzzy, particularly in relation to Hordes but I doubt the basic concepts were changed in 3rd edition.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I'll be the first to admit I know very little about the game, so I appreciate the explanation

What i am interested in and maybe they have confirmed elsewhere and I missed it. But is it resin or PLA. Having a 3d printer and knowing what it costs to print a bigger model the prices in the sample SKU bit seemed expensive to me, but i also know they need to make money etc. Guess we shall see. I really would like to see GW have competition that would force them to actually respect their customer base and their investment in their products.

@TesseractMinis

2 жыл бұрын

It's absolutely resin. I've seen pictures :)

...Boomhowler and Company as STL's? TAKE MY MONEY!

I miss playing warmachine. It was steam punk D&D, with very cool models. I thought they may have burned themselves out when they released nearly half a dozen new factions in as many years, some of which seemed a little redundant.

War-machine vs hoard . War-Machine = mage powering Jacks Hoards = big Monsters powering the mage lore wise it was War-machine was in the citys, Hoards was in the wild

They're fixing everything except that their rules are probably not balanced

I loved WMH MKII. It broke my GW chains and was the best time I had in gaming to that point. MKIII was a dumpster fire and I walked away. PP did a LOT of bad shit at that MK2-3 stage, not the least of which was fucking up a great game, so I am hopeful they turn it around. I LOVE the "king" mechanic of winning either through objectives or taking the caster out.

I loved warmachine in their first version and it was my first tabletop war game. I couldn't play very far into their second version as they turned their back on almost everything that made the game what it was. I highly doubt they'll fix those mistakes as a company almost never doubles back to old business models. Unfortunately game developers nowdays want to make a lower quality game that appeals to more people instead of focusing on their market and what they originally designed the game for. I also didn't like how they went to a completely points and scenario based objective system and completely scrapped targeting the enemy warcaster, essentially the enemy general, all together which is what the game was originally designed for.

The app has its ups and downs too much is in the air. The last time they tried to do a content subscription it pretty much crashed and burned only lasting... 6?!? Months I believe.