Anyone who thumbs downed this video liked it in a different universe. 👍

@emo_jester69

4 жыл бұрын

If only

@intheworldbutnotofit8002

4 жыл бұрын

People who thumbed down are 3 year olds . They can only comprehend shows such as “Octonauts”.

@jefflewbowski2231

4 жыл бұрын

N e g r i t o [tenfold] I agree. I didn’t like any of the characters, especially lily. Worst acting ever, so awkward and forced

@s0567840

4 жыл бұрын

I disagree that the 'many worlds' interpretation being accurate proves that free will exists. The causes in your universe still lead to effects. And when you're are in one branch of the multiverse instead of another the issue of you having been able to 'choose' to be on a different branch is the same as if there was just one universe.

@osgnuru

4 жыл бұрын

Seven of my universes gave this video a dislike, the rest of us are total with you bro!

the answer is yes... nick offerman can play a serious role. absolutely killed it.

@shreklopez662

4 жыл бұрын

Kevin Seyedin yeah, i was impressed

@iainjames03

4 жыл бұрын

Joss Whedon mentioned, while talking about using comedy actor Michael Hitchcock for a serious part in Serenity, that "if you can do comedy [well], you can do anything". I don't think many 'comedy' actors either get the opportunity - or have the inclination - to take on serious roles.

@yw1971

4 жыл бұрын

Inspired clearly by Naughty Dog's Neil Druckmann... (or vice versa)

@CorbCorbin

4 жыл бұрын

Iain Meldrum It’s a very good point. Not necessarily someone who can be funny naturally, but who can perform comedy. Timing is key.

@tellmesomething2412

4 жыл бұрын

Um... He can play serious, but imo the material wasn't that special. Or, although Nick can be serious, he wasn't convincing. Not blaming him, because I didn't take any actor serious here. It's like they've played their roles by the script without giving a notion of themselves to the role. Then again, RDJ with Ironman is a rare act; DeNiro in Taxi Driver, Raging Bull; Denzel Washington in Training Day & X; ect. (They used improv in some scenarios to bring life into their characters.)

Did anyone realize Lily may be short for Lilith? The original wife of Adam. The first woman who refused to be controlled.

@robertoaraujo6367

Жыл бұрын

WHAT? I didn't such a thing existed.

@alisonbloom2131

9 ай бұрын

Yeah that crossed my mind too. Eve would've been too obvious and Lillith is actually a better fit

@rogue1573

7 ай бұрын

ooh nice

@captainobvious9188

20 күн бұрын

I just watched devs, that did come to mind for me during the first episode after everything is laid out. It made me expect her to be the character that would break the determinism.

@cheesepuff-oj4fy

20 күн бұрын

Seek forgiveness from God. Lilith was the creation of people who wanted to mess with the truth. But Allah addressed this: "O humanity! Be mindful of your Lord Who created you from a single soul, and from it He created its mate, and through both He spread countless men and women." The quran mentioned angels, devils, satan, christians, jews...etc. It did not leave anything, but there's no trace of this Lilith. The idea of it only seems cool. But it's bringing today's women everything except happiness. Total freedom brings forth self destruction. There's a God who created us, and we ought to live in consideration of him and his rules, and to him we are getting back.

This video overlooked part of the mouse experiment's meaning... that experiment not only simulated the universe from the objects around it but it also forward projected a different universe where the same mouse exists, resurrected. They show this by placing cheese on the table in the current reality and having the mouse respond by eating the cheese. This was the whole point of the project - to resurrect a perfect copy of a Amaya in a simulation.

@heckzotica

3 жыл бұрын

Good point!

@JackyTMusic

3 жыл бұрын

How are these videos all missing Forests intention! Your comment is spot on

@yuanpucasn4955

3 жыл бұрын

But something is also ignored, in addition to that, it is the reason why Devs can no longer see the future, it is not because Lily intervenes, that is Forrest's fantasy when he feels that his experiment worked, the reality is that everything has been repeated. . . . . so many times, to the point of being deceived with the success of his work, when the reality is that he failed, but within the simulation it worked, being Stwart who altered his destiny, thinking outside the parameters of Devs, and outside the parameters by Forest. Possibly in the real world, Stwart destroyed the project, and Katie trapped, tried to create the perfect world for Forest, where Lily's anomaly was born solely out of Forest's desire for perfection. That is my interpretation of the ending, it is not that it worked, nor could they see the future, but that the simulation works under Forest's neural parameters, possibly only spending a couple of years or even a year, in the original Devs, although I do succeed recreate all the past, but not the future.

@codedeception3704

3 жыл бұрын

thanks for this explanation

@films_123

2 жыл бұрын

It's interesting that people use the world, "resurrected". And not "copy". It is rather like the issue in the TV series "Altered Carbon", concerning how if you can make two copies using the same technology of the orignal, then how can either copy be the orginal (ressurrected). The implication being of course that the copy is not the same person, only the same data. It is also similar to the concepts in "Blade Runner", where the replicant's are given the memories of someone else. It doesn't mean that orginal memory maker is resurrected (in whole or part). The argument in Devs by Forest seems to be, if you have 100% of the data/memories, etc, then you have 100% of the orginal. But I see this more like file copying (like putting a file on a USB to take to work. It is not the orginal, and if you work on it, it becomes different to the one at home on the computer you started out with). Even if the fidelity is 100%, the copy is a copy. Another place this has been sort of touched on is in the Star Trek "Beam me Up" technolgy. It has been questiined if you are indeed moving a person or copying a person (and deleting the original). Again, in Altered Carbon and other sci, the idea of creating someone out of data in far away places, is sometimes outlined as the way to colonise places we cannot physially reach. But again the question of what is really "you?" In an episode of Bewitched i caught earlier by chance. A vase was knocked off a table by a neighbour. Samantha magics up a new one, that looks the same. Darren, her husband, does not know the differene, and the neighbour who later returns is shocked to see it whole again. Samantha claims she had a spare. But again, appearance aside, it is not the same vase. No matter how perfect a copy. At the end i wondered, about the sim world. if it was a copy, does that mean there was a "Forest" already there with Amiya and the wife? In which case how is that resurrection? Wasn't Miya already on screen with Original Forest watching? Does that not mean there was a simulated "Forest" already there? e.g. before "Forest" died the simulation already existed? And of Lilly, Jamie, etc.?

This show was so underrated and slept on. It is amazing.

@robertoaraujo6367

Жыл бұрын

I can't believe I never heard about it before...

@BearFattfilm

3 ай бұрын

I think I might hold it in even higher regard than Ex Machina and Annihilation.

@michelecarbone2896

Ай бұрын

Could have been half the duration though. A lot of faffing around, a lot of run time for an idea that wasn't that strong.

@BearFattfilm

Ай бұрын

@@michelecarbone2896​​⁠streaming platforms are full of brain dead content. Did you even ascertain half of the ideas presented in this show? You speak down on what you don’t intellectually comprehend and your defense is that it’s pretentious. Go back to commenting on Star Wars content.

@michelecarbone2896

29 күн бұрын

@@BearFattfilm You are pretty arrogant to assume that I can't comprehend the themes of this show just because I didn't like it as much as you. People like different things. The pacing in DEVS was painfully slow. The ideas explored in the show have been presented in many different formats before (determinism, free will, nature of God, etc.), to the point that it was pretty clear how the whole thing was going to play out the moment that Sergei walked out of DEVS. Pretty immature for you to assume I should watch "brain dead content" or "Star Wars content", you must have a real high opinion of your own intellect (which, from the way you replied, it is probably not as high as you think it is). This series could have been compressed in a 2 hours film feature, and it would have been probably for the better. There is just not enough story or character development there to stretch it over 7 hours. There is no arc to the characters to justify this runtime. The 2 main lead characters offer a performance built on a single-note, played to death for over 7 hours. Thankfully Alison Pill and Stephen McKinley Henderson offered good support to the story (the latter in particular was a pleasure to watch and listen to). In the end, it is good to see this type of content on a streaming platform, but in the end if you didn't watch it you are not missing much. Off you go, boy.

The amputee from episode 1 has legs in the simulation.

@coffeebeann1

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting.. I didn’t catch that

@copypaste3526

3 жыл бұрын

Time...

Alex Garland's mind is a very interesting place

@simplehealthyliving4681

3 жыл бұрын

Not really. He doesn't get the absolute singular aspect of human sentience which is intricately tied to free will on a limited level despite the assumption that things are non-random on a quantum level. Further, in every single movie or tv-show of his, he always portrays a caricature of a weak, beta male, and a girl-power enabled empowered female even though we all know this is only because of decades of cultural brainwashing of men to be a certain way while simultaneously brainwashing women to be the exact opposite of a compatible counterpart. It's amazing how many weak men just swallow his bvllsh1t propaganda.

@TheKh65

3 жыл бұрын

@@simplehealthyliving4681 so you are suggesting your mind is more interesting?

@mancamiatipoola

3 жыл бұрын

Where edgy asexual androginous characters walk around with a bland expression and say generic sci-fi shit...

@Gandolfini666

3 жыл бұрын

Your profile picture is interesting

@Gandolfini666

3 жыл бұрын

@@simplehealthyliving4681 shut the fuck up....hes rich and you're broke gtfo

Its crazy how depressed he looks in the show he even has red rings around his eyes ,and when he goes in the system "Deus" he looks absolutely healthy and happy he definitely can play a serious role

In episode four about halfway in, Jamie quickly cleans his apartment and leaves with a slam of the door causing the shelf on the wall to fall and break. After the many worlds algorithm is applied and at the end of the episode, the shelf is back, intact, and has no indication of having ever fallen off the wall. This is not the same world.

@alexandrugrajdeanu9443

4 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry but the shelf does not look the same. The objects in it are arranged differenly, while the ones in the shelf that did not fall seem to be unmoved. And also the one that fell seemes to be a little bit more to the left (no gap between shelves before, some gap after). Jamie was already home when the final scene started so it is more than obvious that he quickly patched it up before Lilly came.

@rambocortez

4 жыл бұрын

I see where you’re coming from, but tbh I just think the director left that in.

@CorbCorbin

4 жыл бұрын

Dude fixed it. 🤣

@osgnuru

4 жыл бұрын

@@CorbCorbin I don't think so. I think it was one of an infinite simulations.

@CorbCorbin

4 жыл бұрын

osgnuru I was joking. I’m definitely going to rewatch the entire season, and I’m making a note to look for that shelf now.

I believe strongly in the comment sections ability to figure out free will or determinism...

@russellward4624

4 жыл бұрын

crabhat1 well you can’t chose your beliefs.

@conceptualmessiah01

4 жыл бұрын

I chose to believe that it is deterministic.

@lauren6485

4 жыл бұрын

@crabhat1 this comment thread wins

@Kippynms

4 жыл бұрын

@crabhat1 lmaoo this man.

@Kippynms

4 жыл бұрын

@crabhat1 you watched something you wasnt supposed to now you think you god. cmon now.

And the Oscar goes to... embedded Russian spy for total dedication to the art.

@universalcollective427

4 жыл бұрын

jumped in for the lulz

Its all so messy. Multiverse is also deterministic, which they actually (for once) explain in the series. Each branch is its own deterministic universe. (in theory) Lilly was technically also determined by what she saw. She simply rejected what she saw on the telly. Which according to forest might just aswell have been another multiverses projection. The issue being of course that the 'machine' crashed after that moment, which makes no sense in that given world. And last but not least. Like most people, the series confuses determinism with fatalism. But thats for the philosophers out there.

@boggers

4 жыл бұрын

I may be one of those confusing determinism with fatalism. Laplace's demon sees both ways, but isn't a multiverse only deterministic in retrospect? The series made perfect sense to me. The machine crashed because of something similar to a grandfather paradox, in that Lilly seeing her future was the thing that enabled her to change her future, if only for a few seconds.

@DeadEndFrog

4 жыл бұрын

@@boggers Well there are a few key issues here. First the series own problems. The series moves on to use the many worlds interpretation in its simulation. Which makes forest say "this isn't ouer jesus" its "some jesus". Because they can never know if what they are seeing is actual history, or another dimensions version of history. So when lilly sees herself killing forest, it makes no sense to assume its this versions lilly in the future, since we don't know which dimension we are actually simulating. (god knows why they even do, unless she always makes that choice in all versions? How would they know? did they do infinite simulation? One could argue they got hung up on this version because of the simulation crashing. Which has some diffrent implications). The conclusion is obviously that there is no reason to extrapulate 'free will' out of what they are seeing on another dimensions deterministic future/past/present When she then goes on to do something entirely diffrent then the lilly on the telly, we can saftly assume (given the rules of determnism) that what she saw wasn't really this version of history, since she actually made a diffrent choice in this universe. This versions action to throw away the gun was also (given the rules of determnism) determined by what she saw would happen. Its the equivlent of watching a movie and then acting it out in reality. As for the problems with the diffrent perspectives. There are plenty of diffrent issues. My only suggestion would be to extrapelate from what i wrote, or search up the diffrence betweeten the diffrent views. But heres a quick rundown: Fatalism means that something is destined to happen. Its rather metaphysical in that sense. Regardless of what you do, somehow everything always ends up aligning. Think: oedipus rex's ending Determnism simply means everything has a causal relationship, and was caused by something previously. So if one extrapelates determinism to mean "all causes" "all pieces" are know. Then many people assume it would be equivelent to fatalism. (Which many people do, even scientists) Which isn't true in the sense that "i can't do something because i know my future and its destined to happen". Since knowing your future would allow you to do new things, new options are open to you becuase of the new cause (knowing your future). In science, a simulation is made by the same particles/information as the rest of the universe, and is part of a causal relationship with the rest. Doing the simulation has an effect, which many people forget. TO explain in terms of oedipus rext. In fatalism, any move is pointless, because x will happen regardless such as with odipus rex in the end. But in determinism, he could have become an incel, and would have escaped his 'faith' because he knew his future. Of course the issue is that its metaphysical 'faith', but in the real world its just science. Many-worlds is determnistic, because each branch is determnistic intinsincrly. All possibilities that are possible within the given theory will happen- presumably. So all branches follow their worldline to the end by their values which are derived from the schrodinger equation, but we only know which worldline we are in retrospectivly. Kinda like seeing if the cat is alive or dead. Its either alive or dead. But we won't know until we open the box. I hope this was clear, if not il try my best to explain further, and sorry for the spelling mistakes. I tried.

@boggers

4 жыл бұрын

@@DeadEndFrogForest and Katie view Lilly's outcome before switching to the Everett model and it is the same but fuzzy, so the problem there is in your reading of the show, not the show itself. Your view is clear but I have to disagree. If the common understanding of quantum determinism has come to imply that retrospective determinism still technically qualifies as determinism, then I'd say the word has lost its meaning with that transition - so it doesn't matter if one model is classified as deterministic or not if the definition is corrupted. I would rather stick with the classical pre-quantum mechanics definition of determinism, which is essentially what you call fatalism. This is not to say that I believe any of the discussed models are even close to reality, but that's a whole other discussion. :)

@DeadEndFrog

4 жыл бұрын

I think its a good point to bring up, but i don't think thats what the series is showing actually. I would call that 'your reading.' Because all we see when we are in the evverett model is illy lying on the ground dying. (Which happens regardless) You can corret me if im wrong. But no further infromation is given to us. Unlike with the clip of jesus, where forest directly comments on it. EDIT: there is one uncertenty however. In regards to them 'viewing' the entire thing. We might say they saw it all, and are therfor expecting the whole outcome to be similar. But the series is rather wierd about it in its dialouge, because they talk about 'viewing' it so many times, and knowing the lines in and out. When its the new model which gave us the talking lines in the first place. Which didn't happen into later on in the series. So for the concepts; It still doesn't explain why this act of free will is uncaused. Because that would mean one has to define 'free will' in a certain way that her viewing her own action isn't somehow the cause of her not doing the action. Which it most certenly is, as she decides upon viewing, rather then deciding what to do without viewing the future. So in a sense, the series would be better in its precision and execution of free will but not showing lilly the outcome, but showing the rest of us. Then there would be no doubt. As it stands, one could only read it as a very loosly defined version of compatabilism. As for the definitions, the concepts of fatalism, determinism and compatabilism existed before the quantum mechanical reovlution. They can all fit their spesific definition without crossing into one another if one is precise enough. Fatalism can be defined as faith, which is diffrent then cause and effect as lilly staying in your room will somehow always lead to the outcome of her dying in devs. Regardless. In determnism we would have to be shown the cause and effect (which we are). But there would be nothing metaphysical from stopping her from traveling to china as soon as she learns of her future. Thats just fatalism. Compatabilism on the other hand is a philosophy that explains how determnism and free will work together. There are many bad versions of this idea, and a few good ones. The issue here is the definition of "free", as what compatabilists, and determnists agree with is that we have 'will'. This will is never uncaused however. Unlike in fatalism where we seem to have no will regardless, because the world will will realigne itself to fit an outcome. In 'libertarian free will' we have souls, or something outside the chain of cause and effect is actually ouer driving force. What we might call ouer 'true self'. It has the most lacking definitions, and concepts imo-. But is probanly what most people are interested in finding out. I hope it all makes sense! Feel free to point out mistakes/innaccuracies ect. EDIT: As for my grievences with the series, its not that i hate it. I just think it could have been more precise with its concepts. As we are talking, im staring to realize the series as a whole has enough there to explain most away. Even if they could have been clearer. But what its harder to forgiv is the concepts being messed up. The writing too.. but thats just subjective. TO sum it all up: it all comes down to how you see ideas such as the grandfather paradox which you mentioned. For me its just an explenation of an issue, and can't be used 'coherently' in its own terms. What is one supposed to do make marty mcfly dissapear mid air despite it making no sense? I naturally dislike these types of solutions. And free will is one of those issues one has to graple with when one is making a story like this. Just as time travel requires a soltuion to the grandfather paradox (self consistancy for example ect.) Sorry for the wall of text :( im done now, and forver

@Ofinfinitejest

4 жыл бұрын

@@boggers - Interesting discussion, and I am more aligned with boggers to some extent, but to take this a bit deeper, the many worlds interpretation can encompass a kind of determinism with the set (not actually infinite) of possible worlds. Some hypothetical accounts rob us of an infinite number, and suggest 10^500 universes, as needed in excluding logical fallacies (a branch in which there are no other branches, a branch in which nothing ever existed, etc.), but more importantly automatically also excluding infinite time within our inflation to heat death trap universe. A splits limit. Do not feel all cheated by 10^500, as it includes every "optional" split upward from one single elementary particle throughout the time of the universe that could be in two states having at least that one split to it. The observer, chooser entity, big brain thing, our notion (conventional) of a free will actor, also splits universes, is just way messy that way, and the coalition of events leading to actions can be set aside (under the rug, perhaps). It is the heady skill and strength of creating a new universe, which Lily does quite rightly and morally. Why in the worlds, plural, the past episode programmer did not just move his hand differently in the earlier episode continues to bug me, but it did set the stage for some I suppose, that Lily would not be able to act out differently from the machine movie. Finally, the afterlife notions are intriguing as Garland (the most intelligent person involved in film since Kubrick, beyond question) seems to suggest, and seems to suggest Forest finally accepts, is that conscious awareness "shifts over" to the remaining universes in which someone is not, say, shot in the eye. Katie has a 2D zoo version of Forest, but there are other versions continuing on in many weird variations. We saw a glimpse of Lyndon sitting calmly at the bottom of the dam, unhurt or having walked down after rejecting Katie's gambit (?). Larry Niven, examined this shift over from versions where we die in the masterpiece short story "All the Myriad" ways.

After episode 1 I had no clue what was going on, what the show was about, where it was going.... and I was totally all in. Thought this was one of the best season finale’s I’ve ever seen.

Something less than obvious is that neither of them is really resurrected. It's not like they uploaded their physical consciousness into the machine or anything. She took each of the simulated "person's" memories from one point and added them to an earlier point. She hacked a video game version of them. The meatspace versions are dead and their consciousnesses have fully faded away.

@surferbois

7 ай бұрын

Right, its not 'them'

I think Most people missed a key element in the sim they watched together. STEWART deactivated the pod BOTH ttimes. Pod Lilly sees him BOTH times, while viewing Lilly, Forest, and Katie are distracted by the red herring gun shot. Forest was the target, Lilly was sacrificed to protect humanity from the system. Lilly made the 1st and only real choice any human ever has, because you can't make choice until until you see the future. The show implies determinism does preclude a real choice or having many worlds.

@TheSoulofsin

3 жыл бұрын

She threw the gun out...when was there a gun shot?

@wallonmcwoolworth819

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSoulofsin in the simulation of the future.

@TheSoulofsin

3 жыл бұрын

@@wallonmcwoolworth819 You said "BOTH times" - in the simulation of the future she shot with the gun which accounts for 1 gun shot, what is reference to the "red herring" of the gun shot if the event didn't occur in reality, but only once in the sim?

@wallonmcwoolworth819

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSoulofsin wut?

@hiortintexasracing

3 жыл бұрын

Right, the gun shot was never needed. It was Stewarts action that determined the future, not Lily's choice with hun or no gun.

such a deep, meditative, emotive and surreal show! I wish the tone of this video could be a little more in synch.

Aha Lyndon ...is played by a girl, this character was excellent. The series is very good, drags a little in the middle, but visually brilliant with a great soundtrack. I enjoyed binge watching over 3 days.

@Frontigenics

4 жыл бұрын

I actually remember thinking... "is this guy a chick? or what's going on?". Great actor and character either way... but funny my suspicions were confirmed.

@yw1971

4 жыл бұрын

@@Frontigenics No 'Adam's apple' in the neck...

@milobonifaz

4 жыл бұрын

Steve Goody maybe I’m wrong, but quantum computers are non binary. Maybe it was metaphoric.

You misunderstood Everett's interpretation. It is also a deterministic interpretation, and they even mention this in the show.

@jayknight139

4 жыл бұрын

The whole show took place in the simulation

@niles2836

4 жыл бұрын

Came here to say this. Everett's theory does NOT fly in the face of determinism! Ahhhh that drove me mad.

Also 1 cool easter egg... Lillith was adams first wife before eve

@Cbricklyne

4 жыл бұрын

That's not an Easter Egg. That's a coincidence. At best. One that you've drawn out to be an Easter Egg when no references or allusions to between LILLY and the creation story were made in the show at all. Furthermore, the tale of "Lillith" isn't even Biblical, and there are no references of her at all in the Bible or in the Jewish Torah, and it's entirely apocryphal and effectively a legend and myth from outside the (Judeo-Christian/Abrahamic) Creation story, whose references actually only come from OTHER folkore like Sumerian and Akkadian. An Easter Egg is something that pointedly references something else already familiar to the audience with a specific narrative aim.

@DJdext

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cbricklyne amen.

The golden rings around the trees at the end was a sign that the whole show took place in a simulation.

@laceyoh

4 жыл бұрын

What do you mean exactly?

@SvenDeBinj

4 жыл бұрын

That represent a circle of cause-and-effect that Lynden came to realize before their fall and it’s around the trees which represent the ever expanding and dividing multi verse?

@jayknight139

4 жыл бұрын

@@laceyoh once they were inside of the machine it showed where devs was supposed to be but it was not there in that universe yet the rings leading up to devs were still there as if to imply that devs had always been there.

@Cbricklyne

4 жыл бұрын

@@jayknight139 I do not understand how you take that to mean that ...."therefore (because the rings leading up to Devs were still there) most definitely means the whole show took place in a simulation. That just sounds like an interpretation that YOU've made that has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. Perhaps the Devs machine doesn't exist within that simulation because there's no need for it to exist (i.e in the simulation Forest's daughter never died in the car accident and so there was no need for him to create the Devs machine. The rings may or may not have anything at all to do with the machine.

@jayknight139

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cbricklyne of course it's speculation that's what the comment section is for when talking about a show that has lots of metaphor and ambiguity. So unless you were a part of the writing team on the show you will also be speculating. The rings at the end were a hint that they were in a simulation even though devs was not in that particular simulation. Many believe that if it's possible to make a life like simulation the chances that we are already in one is very high.

I finished season 3 of westworld and now I just finished devs, funny how both shows was about free will.

@embiyar6733

4 жыл бұрын

And the power of data and and someone should do Rehoboam vs Devs

@hossyphossy123

4 жыл бұрын

Devs is how westworld s3 should have been

Perhaps they were already living in a simulation, hence why outcomes were predetermined.

@jayknight139

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly. that's what the show was hinting at and no one is taking about it.

@Kaliosthesecond

4 жыл бұрын

Stop it! My mind can't take it anymore!!

@ricosrealm

4 жыл бұрын

This is what Stewart was referring to.... it's a box with everything in it... and in that box is another box. Ad-infinitum. Uh-oh. If it's turtles all the way down... then it's turtles all the way up too.

@KING_OWUSU

4 жыл бұрын

@@ricosrealm rick and Morty did it funnier

@johnherndonjr

3 жыл бұрын

BINGO!

The key to this series is trying to understand why Deus was created. Forest wanted to build Devs with a Bohmian Mechanics Pilot Wave Interpretation for the algorithm. He would be absolved for his families death. But if the system worked he could insert himself and change their deaths. He rejected Many Worlds because he refused to accept that other fathers had their wife and daughter in their lives. That wasnt his family. In the end Many Worlds won as an operating system. The problem is that perhaps Garland doesn't share that Many Worlds is a determinist Interpretation. Copenhagen is not. So in the end a copy of Lily and Forest was uploaded into the trillions of similar timelines they were on on that day Sergai presented his work to Forest and was recruited. When they meet we realize we are just viewing one timeline....and if we trust Forest it is a good one. The issue is that with Many Worlds every timeline is expressed which means it is as deterministic as the Pilot Wave. We just see a thread where Devs was never created because Forest never lost his family. But there are copies where all that could happen did...and every copy holds the memories of Lily and Forest. We just saw a thread where Lily and Forest died and had copies uploaded and Lily decided to reunite with Jamie. But this thread was as determined as all the others. The key is understanding Many Worlds is also deterministic. No free will. Please just watch the PBS space time episode about Many Worlds if you choose not to believe me.

@Mischa808

4 жыл бұрын

__Grist for the Lel__ Impressive. I almost understand. My small understanding was only hinged on his guilt for keeping his wife on the phone, when she clearly said she didn’t like to use it driving. And the mind bending dialogues. Looking for the PBS show(?) is it?

@nomadsto1

4 жыл бұрын

Im Not choosing to believe you or not. You , like most, missed a key element in the sim they watched together. STEWART deactivated the pod BOTH ttimes. Pod Lilly sees him BOTH times, while viewing Lilly, Forest, and Katie are distracted by the red herring gun shot. Forest was the target, Lilly was sacrificed to protect humanity from the system. Lilly made the 1st and only real choice any human ever has, because you can't make choice until until you see the future. The show implies determinism does preclude a real choice or having many worlds.

@clb4947

4 жыл бұрын

you're wrong, multiverse theory and determinism aren't able to co-exist. A determinist holds that everything is determined by the physical world around them and free will is an illusion. A multiverse suggests there are an infinite number of alternative universes in existence, of which we only experience one. But if the world does not have free will, and everything is determined, then a multiverse will never exist because the existence of our universe determines it cannot exist.

@clb4947

4 жыл бұрын

In other words, if there are multiverses, determinism is wrong. In the show, they choose multiverses and thus try to 'prove' free will is a thing

@robertfeliciano4995

4 жыл бұрын

Way off, dude. So way off about all of it. Offerman was blaming himself and proving determinism to convince himself it was out of his power and happening no matter what. She expressed free will and they lived thanks to the blond chick in the afterlife fake universe with everyone they loved. I’m not trying be confrontational but you are SO wrong about such a genius show and misleading people. Learn actual astrophysics and don’t just watch PBS.

Forest had a one track mind throughout the whole show. You could say he couldn't see the forest for the trees.

@Cbricklyne

4 жыл бұрын

Good one. Nicely done. Reach over and pat yourself gently on the back. Take the rest of the week off. You've earned it.

When Lily throw the gun out of the capsule, immediately the reality switch into another reality that is similar and parallel to it. That's why after she throw the gun out there is a glimpse of scene that Lily stood in front of the screen without the gun while before that she stood there carrying the gun. It's different reality. But in the new reality they move in, Stewart and Katie have seen a simulation of Stewart deactivated the electromagnetic field of the capsule that caused Forest and Lily death, so Stewart doesn't want to be blamed, they both already know it in the simulation. It was determined. So both theory, Deterministic and Free Will are valid.

Great summary! I think the problem was they failed to see that it was Stewart who killed them when looking into the future. They thought it was Lily, so that’s why she made the choice to change things. But really it would have required Stewart making a different choice (to not kill them). They simply overlooked his role in the outcome.

@user-vn7ce5ig1z

4 жыл бұрын

In the future they saw, they died because by shooting Forest (or more accurately, by shooting from inside the carriage), Lily breached the vacuum seal.

@jayknight139

4 жыл бұрын

They only overlooked it in that reality.

@WalterWhite-wm4sz

4 жыл бұрын

In a previous comment, I read that the shelf that fell over after Jamie cleaned his room and shut the door, was still up at the end of the episode. Maybe we were looking at 2 world's, and one world was where Lily shot forest and the other is Stewert doing it. They did say that Lyndons fix could have deviations. So maybe it had something to do with that?

@alexandrugrajdeanu9443

4 жыл бұрын

​@@WalterWhite-wm4sz I replied to that comment and explained that the shelf did not look the same, so it must have been fixed by James before the scene started, since he was already there.

I didn't have a choice clicking on this video, it was pre determined.

@timothyvanderschultzen9640

3 жыл бұрын

I feel cheapened now.

Don't forget what Steward said about the the machine existing inside the simulation, inside a nested simulation ad-infinitum. They CREATED the multiverse. Who knows if the "real world' isn't just one of infinite layers of simulations?

Anyone noticed the infinity symbol necklace worn by Lily? Says it all...

Wanted to add that I think when Katie asks Forrest if he knows what this means, it wasn’t only that he had a “choice” after all, and that he caused his wife and daughter’s death, but that he was giving up the life he could’ve potentially had with her.

Loved the series, it's a sign of a great phycological show when they give you so many answers and leave u with still so many questions. my biggest take on the show is that yes, they discovered that the universe is deterministic. But I think ones ability to determine the future depends on the number of simulations you have time to watch, as without the information on all the outcomes, you can't be 100% certain that the simulation your watching is your own. This is because you could split of into a different simulated outcome, even if everything up until that point in time was deterministic. I came to this conclusion as there is no possible way to change an event, once it occurs, no matter how much data of the event you have, it's already happened. But you can change the future with past and present data. As the simulation of the past is a true projection of what has happened in your universe, whereas the simulations of the future are predictions, insights into other universes. knowledge of a future event (in any simulation) is still deterministic but it would depend on how many simulations of an event you watch to get a greater understanding of the probability of that event happening in YOUR universe. It would take all that to KNOWINGLY change the future. As seen in the last episode, the future projection Forest watched was not his own, it was another universe, dispite the difference in outcome on that universe being very miniscule. p.s. I imagine the differences from universe to universe have to be miniscule and limited, but that limit it is still a high number so it made sense that it was such a shock that they are in a universe so rare for the number of simulations they watched, plus watching so many of the same outcome probably felt as if their future was certain, which it wasn't in the end. And Lily is what made their world different to the other simulations. Definitely interesting, I'd like to see what they could do with a second season.

Twist - after the credits a Maintenance guy accidentally turns it off....

@DaShogun999

3 жыл бұрын

They don’t have maintenance guys, remember? They all have to clean up after themselves

oooh maybe heaven is the real cloud where we are all backed up

@Agent_427

4 жыл бұрын

crabhat1 it would be you, though. If it’s the same information down to every subatomic particle, even if recreated or “uploaded,” that IS you.

@Agent_427

4 жыл бұрын

crabhat1 that wouldn’t happen though because they’re in the program, they established there were no other outcomes than death for both of them, so that means their simulated life is their last and only life making it theirs and only theirs, not belonging to any other versions of themselves, so they become you, you become them, you are one.

@Agent_427

4 жыл бұрын

Because they “cast the first sin” as they say, they broke the laws of the universe resulting in their only life being the life within DEUS

@Agent_427

4 жыл бұрын

crabhat1 it’s heavily implied that they are living their “lives” in the simulation, and with the many worlds theory you’re unaware of the universes in which you’re dead, therefore it’s safe to say they are only in DEUS because that’s the current life they’re living. Also if you pay attention it’s mentioned that there are no other possible endings for the two characters, and that’s because the girl broke the laws of their universe

@Agent_427

4 жыл бұрын

Pay attention to the fucking story dude, THEY ARE NOT COPIES

I loved the concept and that the story got me reflecting on the scheem of all that happens. The visual effects where amazing, and the writting was like something I've never seen before.

The way he pulles those earphones out when he witnesses the crash... Great acting

San Junipero vibes from this episode!

@noviting6976

4 ай бұрын

"Source Code" too

Interestingly, Forest and Lily could live many lifetimes in the 'simulation' in mere moments in real world time. Now that they're digital, everything can run waay faster from our perspective, but from there's, it would seem normal. Also, what if some tech company genius had already lost someone before Forest did, and made a quantum machine like his already and put everyone in it? So everyone was already simulated, then Forest made a simulation inside the simulation without knowing. Where does it end? Is that happening to us now?

A REALLY important point (imo) that's missed in the explanation of why Katie needed Forrest to know that Linden was right is that that one Forrest will be fragmented into an infinite number of Forrests in an infinite number of afterlives, as he explains to Lily.

That was so so so perfect. The show was incredible and you explained it perfectly. Good good job.

So.... right after you show the scene for his wife dying I get the "accidents happen" ad from state farm

@mancamiatipoola

3 жыл бұрын

Coincidence or determinism?

The thing that confuses me though is that, since they saw the future of lily dying then they made those decisions to act out that future. This reminds me of what doctor strange said in Endgame. "If I tell you it happens, then it won't happen."

No explanation, just a review..

@user-vn7ce5ig1z

4 жыл бұрын

This is how _all_ of the "ending explained" channels on KZread are. They never actually explain anything, they just give a summary, a full play-by-play recap, or at most, give an actual review/critique. :-|

If Lily's throwing the gun out "doesn't matter", then it must not matter TO something: the 'outcome'. But what is the outcome, then? What is the ultimate point that everything is leading to, no matter what came before it? If it's just 'the end' (of the simulation, the universe, whatever), that's an event that, though perhaps inevitable, is in no way bounded by any particular shape. The end could happen any number of ways, and therefore at any number of moments. Otherwise, moments are somehow arranged in some sort of hierarchical structure, where some are more 'important' than others, some beholden to others. And, again, important or beholden to what? A variable ending? So, I think that the fact that Lily could throw the gun away at all, regardless of the state of the rails, means that free will is not only present in that world, but significant in its effects.

@janders79

4 жыл бұрын

@Eileen Farrar Thanks! :)

@gaspanda

4 жыл бұрын

Of course her throwing the gun away at that point was not an act of will, otherwise she could have made a different choice earlier.

@janders79

4 жыл бұрын

@@gaspanda She could have, but how does that invalidate the different choice she made at that moment? How do we know she didn't just wait until the moment when all of the most relevant people were watching her break rules they thought were inviolable?

@TheACed7

4 жыл бұрын

It ties in with determinism. Take life as a chemical reaction : it has a start , an end point and in-between states of matter ; although the latter can vary the outcome is predetermined. As we step further and take a deeper look into the in-between states we conclude that they also have a predetermined start and end points and only the reaction can vary depending on particular circumstances. That being said free will exists and it may affect the outcome of a certain situation , however it is insufficient in effect to alter the whole reaction altogether. As illogical as it may sound : both theories are correct and they correlate with each other resulting in many world who start and end the same - the only difference being how and when it happens.

@gaspanda

4 жыл бұрын

@@janders79 but not turning up in the first place would have demonstrated that point although of course every drama needs a showdown between the protagonists. They implied that lily was special in some way and therefore better able to trancesend the rules.

6:28 Forest doesn’t see himself as a God, he created the God.

Stuart actually tells forest he's going to kill him no matter what in the form of a quote, the quote being," you don't know who I'm quoting thats why I'm going to kill you", forest not knowing nor trying to guess who he's quoting cemented his fate in Stuarts hands

If it doesn't matter whether she throws the gun, the universe is not deterministic. The claim of determinism is not "some events are bound to happen and no matter what you do, they're unavoidable." That's a pop conception of fate or something like that. The claim of determinism is "all events are bound to happen," even down to the timing of your blinking, as pointed out by Katie when talking to Lily.

If determinism is true, the illusion of freewill is still an element of the determinism, and so the act of treating yourself and others as if they have freewill is still what plays out in the deterministic reality. It changes nothing. Judgement and punishment is not only meant as a nondeterministic variable but rather a consequence of the action in question. Not only is a sentence meant as punishment for the act, it is also a deterrent against possible future acts. In a deterministic world, you are still guilty as charged for your actions. The punishment must be dealt in the deterministic world to influence future criminals to not commit crimes. The most beautiful quote from ep1 is when Katie replied to Sergei’s statement “this changes everything”, and Katie replies “no, if it’s true it changes nothing”

8:01 What the hell? No. It doesn't matter that Stuart still disabled the system or that they both died. These similarities of macro events or outcomes does NOT mean it's still deterministic. One of them has a gun on the top floor and the other the gun is on the bottom. If even one ATOM is different. If even one THOUGHT or one NEURON is different - then it may as well be a world of intelligent dinosaurs. It's not deterministic.

I'm an advocate of semi-determinism, there's will under certain constraints that are blunted over reality so the point(s) of reality can penetrate

@yqafree

4 жыл бұрын

Theologians in fact have pondered over the antinomy of sovereignty (God's left hand, side) and providence (God's right hand, side) as it's written: All things (possible in the world of as it is) are permissible but not all are profitable Of course this example is more subjective than a purely objective example like absolute freedom versus absolute destiny, I again don't think certain laws or principles can ever be broken while other aspects are moldable In fact without constraints of extension then everything would infinitely blend, totally collapse and be in a absolute state of utter yet imperceivable expansion So I'm not saying non-duality isn't real but as far as we know we haven't yet measured or found any kind of singularity, approximated any infinitesimal quality or quantity, nor have we even described or agreed about perfection

@yqafree

4 жыл бұрын

N e g r i t o [tenfold] what are you? Some sort of passive aggressive incel? You seem to me another lover of hiding behind the screen You probably are the type that remains year after year, physically inactive at home, bitterly brooding in a constant state of stress hormones giving yourself gynecomastia I'm sure in everything you struggle to read, in such having a constipated clueless looking furrowed brow, you see them as opportunities for lashing out like the toddler you are You thinking about trans people tells me you're fantasizing for some body any body to just dominate you Hardly sleeping by day, futa and trap pron by night, the only lovers you've known are your small and dainty hands; so even here I find yet another internet masochist, smh.. Why are you people so desperate for pain and heartache? Indeed I serve you back a better insult than you can ever give Believe me I'm not looking to do this kind of thing normally either, but this time I feel I should "For what?" For your lack of contemplation about the truth that was just put forward to you by somebody to put it to you plainly "Why else?" Well, people like you shouldn't rear children, nor will you ever do so anyway You are the kind of human I wish weren't in my species, the kind that makes the world worse than it ought to be So here you may taste your poison, although it lacks substance on your part, and I'm sure like a good plagiarist you'll try putting it out again, but it's better if you put it behind you now, while you can

@yqafree

4 жыл бұрын

Stop. Go and get some help, for your health please! If the local rehab center you can get with your social healthcare program can't pick you up because you won't fit in the vehicle you'll just need to find another way there, you might even have to walk for the first time you have in a while Yeah yeah I know after a quarter mile of walking you have your panic dial for the paramedic on the ready Seriously, you need to struggle your way out of that 24 hour inner city library bench impressed by your giant ass and make it to the nearest internet addiction rehabilitation center asap For what's left of your heart There are actually personal trainers and physical therapists out there that work with asperger's patients with fixed incomes and bad attitudes Shit, and if you actually go to Jesus and attend church I'm sure somebody can get you some healthier food than food box hand outs and welfare rations You might be able to trade your food stamps and wic to your cracked out community for enough money to go shopping for nicer clothes You might be able to upgrade from bum outlet to maybe Walmart or even Target if you actually hustle for once in your lifetime

@Frontigenics

4 жыл бұрын

Free-will and Determinism both exist at the same time.

Has anyone picked up on the fact that forest was right? If they did calculate for a multiverse than the machine would never be technically wrong. Even if it miscalculated, or made any mistakes its predictions would always be accurate for a single timeline (not necessarily ours) meaning you wouldn't know its accuracy. However, even in a multiverse such a machine could still make accurate predictions of our own past and future. Calculating for a multiverse sounds to me like a sloppy way of covering up its inaccuracies. Forest was not out of line on that assessment.

I know I’m late to this but here’s my theory. Forest and Katie always knew that the capsule in Devs would fall and Forest and Lily would die there. But, before Lyndon’s code being used the picture and sound was always fuzzy. After though, they saw clear images of exactly what would happen in the Devs facility. Here’s the thing though, Lyndon’s code was the many worlds theory. So when they got the clear picture and sound of exactly how Lily kills Forest, that’s just what would happen in one of those many worlds. In the real world, their version of the real world, it was always going to be Stuart who killed them. They just couldn’t have known because they’ve been observing the simulation with the deterministic viewpoint and following the tram lines.

The existence of Many Worlds (aka the multiverse) doesn't discredit Determinism, in fact, it supports it. It means every choice is possible and inevitable, so every possibility is determined but within that particular universe, and certain choices were always meant to be because there's no such thing as randomness if everything is possible. In this universe, it was determined that everything would be the way it is, but in another universe, something else was predetermined. Many Worlds does not equal free will.

My theory is that Stewart actually figured out Katie and Forest's true intentions very early on and intentionally fed them an alternate reality to make them think that the cause of Forest's death was going to be by gunshot when in fact Lilly was always going to throw the gun away in that reality which Stewart saw and sabotaged the capsule in order the ensure that Forest and Lilly would die in that way thus ensuring their plan to upload themselves to Deus would work. I haven't really thought this through very much so I'm sure there's holes but I didn't see anyone mention this possibility so I thought I'd offer it.

This is an interesting show.

@mshinasherman7914

4 жыл бұрын

Yes and eating and licking doo do is interesting.

@damianstarks3338

4 жыл бұрын

Mshina Sherman thanks for your opinion.

@ian12346

4 жыл бұрын

N e g r i t o [tenfold] Lol, sorry this awesome show didn’t do enough “blacks and black Jesus is super real” for ya. Maybe next time eh? Seen anything good on B.E.T? They have a lot of blacks. Not so many Asians though, this show was clearly for Asians huh? 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

@damianstarks3338

4 жыл бұрын

N e g r i t o [tenfold] ok for your information I don’t do drugs that is my normal face and I don’t have the aides virus and second I don’t care how much money you have that is just my normal face so you just made the wrong assumptions about me.

@anthonymartensen3164

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting is a good word for it.

7:43 it DOES make a huge difference because they now know that the future can be changed if you know it. and that the alghorrithm breaks as soon as you change your rails.

Very good, enjoyable review. Would have liked some explanation of Lindon's apparent death dive

Stewart is not making a joke when he says to Katie that his actions were predetermined. My theory is that he had been secretly watching his own future, and in *his* universe, Lilly throws away the gun and he kills both Lilly and Forest. This is why he says "don't blame me, it was predetermined".

i hope more shows explore the plot of "uploading consciousness" like devs (at the end) and several episodes of black mirror do. It's prime sci fi with endless potential.

This series was probably based on the short story "The Dead Past" by Isaac Asimov

I was just wondering, does anybody know the music thats playing in the first episode when Kenton is suffocating Sergei?

I really like most of the work of garland, even this except the ending. In my opinion it was very disappointing. I thought it would be something like the heisenberg uncertainty principle. As long as the machine runs the simulation and kind of looks at the outcome, the result is fixed, so the world is determined. But when the machine doesn’t run or you destroy it and there is no observer which is watching, every state or possibility is possible. That was my first guess for the ending.

@mancamiatipoola

3 жыл бұрын

I thought that Lily would destroy the machine and that is why it cannot see further than that moment. The perfect ending would have been if they just cut to credits after the elevator collapses to the ground and they die, without explaining the Stewart implication. Then the viewers would have to figure it out by catching a glimpse of Stewart fiddling with the controls for only a second. Many people would have to do a double take to figure it out and that would have been a great way to get viewer engagement and also to leave on an ambiguous ending.

Here's from the future... Yes. Yes Nick can play serious roles.

Who wants to see the actress who plays Lily play Saff in tiger king movie? 😂

thank god for this surprisingly new kind of story...loved it by every bit

Did anyone else get serious Evangelion vibes from this show?

Its like Black mirror but instead of just saying "technology bad" it gives you stuff to think about and debate

Katie killed Lyndon. He dies in all of the universes. She knew and let it happen.

Much like the Matrix, the events from episode 1 onward actually already are part of a simulation. Where we know the Matrix is finite, DEVS is infinite in that with each iteration, when DEVs reaches the state of knowing everything a new branch is created. So we watched 1 branch created from the time Lily wakes up with Sergei, only witnessing one possible outcome. I would love to see what ideas future seasons would have explored..

This show is a Masterpiece even the soundtrack, I wanted to see more of the system going back in time to see pivotal moments in history

One of the best shows I watched in a long time. Totally worth it.

The weirdest think in Devs was that nobody questions the existence of Jesus.

@cube4458

4 жыл бұрын

They should have depicted them building the pyramids or something instead!

What an excellent series! Phenomenally executed, I loved it!

Thanks a lot bud!!!

. Would really recommend Westworld if any of you are interested in more sci-fi thriller.

The traffic light thought experiment: Imagine a machine that uses big data analysis in a deterministic universe to be able to perfectly predict all moments in time and space and project them onto a screen ie The Devs Machine, as envisioned by it's creator You put a camera facing that screen In another room you set up a simple red green traffic light You connect the camera and the traffic light to a computer. You write a program for that computer; if the camera detects green light, the traffic light switches to red. If the camera detects red light, the traffic light switches to green The program runs once, then terminates You set the machine to display an image of the traffic light 1 second into the future, projected onto the screen in front of the camera You run the computer program At this point, humans aren't involved anymore. It's just simple objects performing basic instructions. Free will has nothing to do with it. But still, any prediction made by the machine will necessarily be wrong, because the prediction itself causes the opposite to occur We tend to think about determinism in terms of what it means to human free will. But it’s a paradox in and of itself. We imagine that free will means the universe is more or less on rails, except when beings with agency step in to make choices, altering the path the train will take. And we imagine that determinism means that we are just another part of the train’s machinery, and our actions are just consequences of the events that proceeded them, like the wheels spinning because the engine is turning because the fire is burning, etc. But if determinism really is real, then every moment in the universe is contained within its current state. We think about all of that as “information” which can be “collected” as “data” from that, it’s just a simple process of doing the calculations, so we get from a perfect picture of the current state, to a perfect picture of any other moment in time or space. But that imaginary computer is just another hunk of matter. We might apply thought and free will into assembling it, but once it’s running, it’s just bits moving around, without our input. It’s extremely unlikely, but in a universe that had no people, no animals, nothing at all that could even be imagined to have free will, there still should be anything that actually makes it impossible for matter to happen to land in the arrangement described above, with the computer and the camera and the traffic light, and the machine. There’d be no one around to give those things names, but they would function in that same way. If the entirety of the universe is contained in its current state, then it must be possible for the future to affect the past, whether humans are involved or not. But if it’s possible for the future to affect the past, then the entirety of the universe cannot be contained in it’s current state

DEVS/DEUS is that the machine is god, not that Forrest thinks that he is

@darrenpat182

4 жыл бұрын

Deus ex machina, the God in the machine

@jayknight139

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Also the events took place in a simulation which is why they couldn't see past a certain moment.

@tobik2627

4 жыл бұрын

jayknight139 what makes you think that all happened in a simulation? Im not denying it, just curious.

A thought provoking series. Its stated that the Sim is so perfect it has a quantum computer in it that can create a Sim. Within that Sim is another Quantum computer...and so on. So, what if the "real world" is also a Sim being run in a Quantum computer that they are all unaware of ? My mind boggles.

First movie of Alex Garland that I watched was Ex Machina. Hell that was so mindf**cking movie. Then I binged so hard Alex's movie, Annhiliation, Sunshine, and then this Devs. Man I cant wait Civil War. I really love the style of Alex Garland movies

9:17 "you may have caught lyndon and stewart having a convo" bruh or maybe if you were watching you would've caught the double amputee lady had both her legs back? 😭

You just made me love this show even more!! Please watch and review the show zerozerozero! It has a scale that even David Lean would be in awe of!

So, thinking about that ending the other day and something occurred to me that seemed so obvious I wondered whether I was just being thick. So, are we to take it that the end was supposed to be a ‘happy ending’ of sorts? Like, the way that Katie said at the end that they must keep the Devs computer thing on hints that we are supposed to believe that they’re living on in that simulation, yeah? Not to mention how Forest was talking to Lily at the end. But they’re just dead, eh? Like, even if the simulation is so powerful that a. those still alive could interact in real time with them and it would be indistinguishable from actually interacting with the real person, and b. the simulated Lily and simulated Forest FEEL as though they are really real, they’re still not ACTUALLY them. Coz they’re just dead. Guess what I’m asking is: are we supposed to understand that as an irony of the ending, or were we supposed to believe that they were ‘living on’? Guess it’s of course either or neither - we’re free to interpret it as we wish. Just wondering how perhaps A. Garland really meant it.

They could've cast Nick Robinson for Lyndon. I get so distracted throughout the series, she's so handsome.

i loved the message from this show. you think if you see the future, you can change something to get more desirable results but thats not the case. how everything turns out is exactly how it was supposed to be. dont waste time dreaming about "what ifs" they dont exist, they dont matter. accept life and make the most of it.

@user-vn7ce5ig1z

4 жыл бұрын

That's how Katie and Forest thought, but they were wrong. They were so indoctrinated with the idea that they never even tried to change anything, hence why she let Lyndon die. She absolutely could have grabbed him or just said he falls and prevented it altogether. Lily didn't prescribe to that idea, which is why she threw the gun and did something different from the prediction. But then, Forest was still so obsessed with proving his wife and daughter were going to die no matter what he did, that he conjured up a BS explanation about Lily throwing the gun and saying that she made a "real choice" and viewing her as a messiah rather than accepting the fact that she simply bothered to try to do something different from what she saw was predicted. The fact that they still died wasn't because it was inevitable, but because Stewart thought the machine was too dangerous (which it absolutely is). If Lily hadn't gone to the mastaba that night, he could have killed Forest alone.

This series is amazing, i really hoped there was a sequel to this show

existence of randomness and many worlds does not necessarily prove free will, it only debunks determinism.

Really enjoyed watching DEVS, the concept was great, allot of big questions and great ideas in the show, I only which I new more about philosophy. I thought Nick Offerman played his part well, and just goes to show that type casting is dead in the water.

God damnit....I wish I had more time to rewatch this kind of stuff and analyze it

I liked how Garland dealt with time here more than what Nolan tried in Tenet.

Well I think it's saying that once you observe the prediction, you how have a choice like how observing a particle can it's state. But I think in this instance, they're saying that the many world alternatives can be so similar that they appear the same, giving us the illusion of determinism, it's why the machine didn't work well before Linden put many worlds into it. Forest's insanity makes him believe in the illusion of determinism.

Any worlds does not break determinism. I don’t know why people(Forrest & Katie) keep saying it does. If there are multiple realities for each possible position of a particle or object at the macroscopic scale, then an infinity of universes is asserted. In this infinitude, whatever action you take is as a result of collapsing the wave function likely due to measurement of your consciousness. And so, you are always aware of a universe in which your free will chose x action, while another universe chooses y action. Both deterministic outcomes and even more so given they all must happen. Many worlds just takes it one more step forward. Instead of determinism in terms of being on a tram line, it is deterministic due to an ever branching tree. In which all branches are predetermined but just always ever slightly different.

Wow the ad for this made me not interested but after the last episode I absolutely loved it glad I watched it and finished it !!

@mshinasherman7914

4 жыл бұрын

Go back the hood please

@MrTehDBear

4 жыл бұрын

Same here. I think the only reason I ended up watching was Nick Offerman and the bit of mystery. On the other hand, they could have given away too much which would have hurt things so it was probably a pretty tough call on what to put in the trailer.

There was a couple shots at the end that were doubled that I was hoping to hear about. Especially one of the forest that zoomed back and then reversed.

3:57 I could bet that Garland was looking for a mini-Max Tegmark.. That monologue about risking your life and seeing if either version survives is EXACTLY what Tegmark once came up with to explain "testing" many-worlds interpretation of qm (of course it's nowhere near testing it ;) Besides, as a girl playing a boy, it kind of gives another layer to that character, as if being in a superposition as a kid:]

This is as close to perfect as a series can get. Casting, acting, cinematography, sound design and even the length and viewing options. I think not being able to binge this was important. It gave you time to process and think about each episode. I hope everyone sees this because it’s a science fiction masterpiece.

@seanduncan9722

4 жыл бұрын

I agree completely. I am breathless.

@ChoppedBananas

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanduncan9722 I almost agree with everything you said. The only gripe I have is with the performance of the actress that plays Lily. Nothing is perfect and this series is indees a masterpiece.

The multi-verse doesn’t grant you free will, it’s like saying that rolling the dice to determine what you’re going to have for dinner is the same thing as having free will. The only difference it makes is that you could have found yourself in a universe where you acted differently, but the same causal effects are there and it’s still either random or pre-determined.

@dallesamllhals9161

Жыл бұрын

..know how - You do?

I knew the symbolism in the show was thick but god damn, literally.

This video should be retitled "the plot of DEVS regurgitated" !!!

Free Will like every thing else is relative. From with in a given system one can have free Will. If that free Will is examined from out side that system it will look deterministic.

You've analysed this on the most basic narrative model possible

Best show I have seen in a long time! ❤