The best moment in the campaign was fighting alongside Caiatl in the massive battle in the final mission.

@FlipFlob13

Жыл бұрын

For real! That was the scale I was expecting throughout the course of the campaign. Obviously it hit that in certain points of the campaign but from a “moment” perspective that was the highlight and what I wished more of the campaign had.

@luminajay3437

Жыл бұрын

I wish we fought calus with her, but I'll take what we can get

@Atypical_Typo

Жыл бұрын

Her stomping that Imprint of Nezcafé repeatedly was a highlight for me x)

@maciejsawicki7146

Жыл бұрын

Pffff so true

@Gruzbee

Жыл бұрын

@Littlegamer Agreed! I was so excited during my stream that I may have squee'd... haven't gone back to check LOL!

Something that really rubbed me the wrong way was that moment where ghost was like 'I'm confused about what the CloudArk is' and Nimbus was like 'glad you asked, the CloudArk is x, y and z' amidst not doing the same thing for the Veil.

@derangedberger

Жыл бұрын

I don't think the neomuni really understand what the veil is either. They know it powers their entire city and the cloudark, it's life support for their entire population, hence why it's so important to them. But they don't know its true nature any more than us.

@thebekmanz

Жыл бұрын

The veil seems to connect souls/consciousness. Including the Witness which is why we see the Ghost connecting many times across the series to the Witness since arrivals

@RageJ

Жыл бұрын

rohan describes it so vaguely, he says "The cloudark is everything, it's our defenses, it's our lives and our people" or something like that

@zero3940

Жыл бұрын

​@@RageJ i think he describes it fine. He mentions it being a network and being a major part of the infrastructure

@zero3940

Жыл бұрын

Its probably like a more advanced modern day internet except it can have peoples consciousness and is connected to their infrastructure (security systems and whatnot)

I wonder what the difference in reception to the Lightfall story would be if the characters therein shared our level of ignorance and curiosity as to what the Veil is. Something small, like Osiris asking Rohan what it is and Rohan responding that all records were mysteriously expunged. Something that allows us to hang on to narrative threads like "the Veil is paracausal in nature" with anticipation and intrigue instead of disappointment. I think the characters' perceptions of the Veil set an expectation that the player would come to understand it as they do. We, as the community, see the discrepancy as the story not explaining what the Veil is but I think it is far more likely that the discrepancy is that the characters act like they know what the Veil is when they're not supposed to. In this explanation, the quest coming in Season of the Deep makes sense for it to be there instead of part of Lightfall.

@abhishekrajesh2300

Жыл бұрын

I think that is the reason nobody really questioned that the black heart remained a mystery for such a long while even though it had a similar story to Lightfall where we had to chase after it and interact(actually destroy, but still) with it as our mission. The only difference was the fact that nobody in game knew what it was either, both them and we, the players, only knew that it had to be destroyed. So maybe you're right. If the other characters didn't really know what the Veil was either, maybe the story could've had a way better reception.

@4newestaccoun

Жыл бұрын

it would be still horrible. the veil isn't the end all be all centerpiece of issue with Lightfall. LF is the penultimate major chapter of this 10 year saga - it should have been a top of the crescendo, climactic high point, where the main villain took center stage, we dealt with them directly, all characters had a part to play and develop (and maybe some die), and our Guardian had dialogue and challenge with what is pretty much the most powerful being in the universe of the game - it shoulda been big, and we shoulda gotten crushed, our asses whooped, and it would set up everything we would need to do to eventually win in The Final Shape any good media - show, movie, game - sets up the final battle (ie in this case The Final Shape) with high stakes and lots of meaning - no matter if we knew what the Veil was, LF failed to do this massively

@KeyClavis

Жыл бұрын

@@4newestaccoun It failed because there were too many inconsistencies that throw you out of the story. @Viperidae IV had a very good point in that the characters acted like they knew what it was, but didn't (and couldn't!) actually know. The cut scene with the space battle starts the campaign out, then at the end of the campaign, you have the SAME cutscene continue. It's _obviously_ the same cutscene and there's no explanation for why the entire campaign took only a few minutes AT MOST. It's inconsistencies like this that kick you out of immersion and leave you with the feeling that it was strung together by several teams that didn't bother to talk to each other so you have a dozen versions of the script and none of them quite match. Bungie put a lot of effort into it, but they should have brought in someone who hadn't been buried in the story for months on end to look at it from a story standpoint. Writers give their work to beta readers for that very reason. Not to look for the grammar or spelling errors, but to find the story faults & inconsistencies, and give feedback about what works and what doesn't. Bungie needs the equivalent of beta readers. Not to test for errors or check the lore, but to review the story.

@jennyyy505

Жыл бұрын

Completely agree with you. An unnecessary expectation of the Veil being explained was set.

@jennyyy505

Жыл бұрын

​@KeyClavis It's so odd to me that so many people claim they're the same cutscene. The shot composition in them is quite different. Plus, the Vanguard is on the Helm, a command vessel, which got locked down because of the resonance pulse, which also took out our entire fleet. They had almost no option to stay there and wait it out, especially when a whole fireteam of guardians got effectively cheese-wired.

Two things. First, thank you Byf for being a voice of reason, compromise, and hope. You're a lot more than just Lore Daddy, you're one of the best and most mature voices in any fandom I've been in. Second: I would really love, at some point, to learn about the process of the narrative development for Lightfall. I really don't think that what we got was the result of the team not caring enough, or not wanting it badly enough, or anything like that. I suspect that they ran out of something: time, or money, or personnel. Somewhere, I think, there was a fumble, and what we got with Lightfall was the best recovery the team could manage following that fumble. I think this partly because I choose to be charitable, but partly because, just like with the D1 vanilla game, there are moments of genius and glory in Lightfall's campaign that don't feel accidental. My hope is that, like D1 vanilla, and all the other examples Byf mentioned of the narrative team not living up to expectations, those moments of greatness will stick with some new players, and maybe they don't really GET what's going on right now or why any of it matters... but they still *want* to find out. That we didn't lose them all. Because this really is a fun game, with a good story, and I think there's enough of that DNA, even in Lightfall, that some people can sense it.

@oglebogle4716

Жыл бұрын

This has got to the best way to put what happened with Lightfall. While playing the game you can see where they put in the work and effort but there are other moments where it just kind of... falls short. The mechanics and new subclass are very enjoyable but when it comes to the story its like someone poked a bunch of holes in a water balloon and now everything is leaking out. Like you said, it seems as if this is the result of a scrambled recovery effort. I really do hope we get to see what really happened behind the scenes when it comes to Lightfall's story development

@JohnKerans

Жыл бұрын

100% agree. Ironically the Destiny community is a delicately balance dichotomy as much as any of those in the game itself: dark vs light, sword logic vs bomb logic, Asher Mir vs CABAL AGAIN!? - There's the positive half that accept what we get and attempt to justify any disapointments, and there's the rabid sweatbags who flip tables at any minor inconvenience. You see it with LFG too, groups that will happily handhold you through a raid you've not done before, no matter how many times you fail to grasp the mechanic and get wipe, then there's the groups that will kick you if you don't have exactly the right loadouts.

@JohnKerans

Жыл бұрын

I don't expect we'll get a full explanation of what went wrong with the time line, but seems that strand should have been in witch queen. Witch Queen was pushed back and eventually came without strand, so maybe that was the main issue and squeezing that into lightfall messed with everything else, but as you say there's probably some corporate bullshit going on too and lead to some sort of issue with money/personnel/time that they're inlikely to want to reveal

@artyoz

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnKerans Something that bugs me about the focus on Strand in Lightfall's campaign (tbc, I love the subclass itself) is that even right down to the color palette, it FEELS like Witch Queen, and so the Strand focus felt like we were having the expansion campaign that we *already played* overshadowing the expansion that we were hoping to get. So I think you're spot-on with drawing that connection (ironically, because, you know... Strand :D )

@NyoMurdi

Жыл бұрын

Marco made a great video expanding on this, theorising that Lightfall was made within one year which if true it explains a lot of the big issues with Lightfall

The issue with Lightfall is that the majority of the story will be coming during the seasons... this is not what was really advertised and I think people just feel played to spend more money. This was the 'beginning of the end' but this only happened at the end of the lightfall story. We know nothing more about the Witness than we did at the start.

@ed61730

Жыл бұрын

If Bungie gave us Strand from the start this would have been a FAR better campaign, always looking for new ways to use it. They could have made more encounters where we have the freedom and choice to fight how we liked.

@ed61730

Жыл бұрын

Must also say that Destiny suffers from WoW-desease... they are a victim of their own success and the community will only be satisfied if new content is as good or better than pervious content. Mainly due to how much people feel invested in the franchise.

@laurenwoods4199

Жыл бұрын

Not only that but seasonal content gets vaulted, so anyone who plays after all the seasonal stuff, or doesn't get any of the season passes this time around, is going to be missing out on very important lore. They should've just included it in the campaign.

@FoxyJesus

Жыл бұрын

I honestly dont think bungie has an insane twist or anything lined up for the upcoming seasons, ill go ahead and assume tfs isn't going to be anything too

@ed61730

Жыл бұрын

@@laurenwoods4199 omg so true! I will say, this season is one of the best Bungie has ever made... it was a mistake not including it inside the main expansion.

I feel that for stuff regarding the Veil and the CloudArk, we should have had a Lightfall's version of "Altar of Reflection" interludes. These interludes being the Vex attempting to breach the CloudArk and we get data containing information on either or both. Smaller pieces that add up over time that Osiris, Rohan, or Nimbus elaborate on during or after.

@everythingsalright1121

Жыл бұрын

Is that koekkoek

@yamz1156

Жыл бұрын

They didn't even do a preservation like mission... :/

@maraudershields283

Жыл бұрын

I love this idea. It could even have updated dialogue after certain post-campaign quests were completed, or the raid, or even seasons as the year progresses.

@jazzyb9488

Жыл бұрын

That would have been excellent. I went back to the Altar many times to get all the two lies and two truths

@12_gageshotgun90

11 ай бұрын

@@yamz1156 Honestly. I'm so pissed there is no solo activity for ron. As a solo who has never done a raid, it felt so good to get a taste of what the raid looked like and how it played with my own character instead of watching a yt video of someone else.

I spent a lot of time after Lightfall finding myself comparing the campaign not to The Witch Queen, but Season of the Seraph. To me, Lightfall felt more like a season crushed into a story campaign over anything else, and it felt like it needed way more time to tell the story it wanted to. It's such a wildly different experience from Witch Queen or The Red War in regards to pacing and how they stood out as standalone campaigns; and as I struggle to understand why, I found myself focusing more on what Lightfall felt like than what it didn't. Season of the Seraph did a really good job of (re)introducing me to Rasputin, making me care about him and Ana over several weeks as he came into his own, before violently ripping him away in an extremely emotional finale. Rohan, comparatively, did not get that luxury, and so his sacrifice didn't hit with nearly as much impact as it would have if we'd had multiple weeks to actually be more thoroughly acquainted with him. Similarly, Osiris getting more time to struggle through his arc and giving essentially a "season of the Veil" would have also felt a lot more organic. Having two older characters facing their last life, one by choice, the other not, coming to terms with that finality felt like it would've been a much better way to flesh out their respective arcs as well, not to mention giving Nimbus more time to struggle with the idea of coming into their own and learning to say goodbye to their mentor over time. I feel the focus on Strand took away from a lot of what Lightfall wanted to be, and from what I've heard, Strand wasn't supposed to even happen during Lightfall, which makes a lot of sense in retrospect. It feels like a lot of things ended up shuffled around and that was what really made it suffer in the end. Having worked on multiple game titles myself, have witnessed firsthand what production hell can look like, so it's easier to spot it through the mess, especially when those overhauls echo throughout the entirety of a project.

Here's the thing: whenever I listen to the Lightfall soundtrack, I'm like OH GOD THIS IS SO HYPE THE LIGHTFALL VIBES I GET FROM THIS-- then my brain tries to look for the Lightfall vibes that should've been there.

The approach of adding new quests in later seasons that expand on the story of the base campaign of Lightfall is equivalent to buying and reading a new book, realizing there are chapters missing that contain context crucial to understanding the grander narrative, and then the bookstore shipped those chapters to you over the course of the next year.

@davidv5584

Жыл бұрын

Funny, that's how some stories were published back in the day

@HiinyuShibari

Жыл бұрын

And the sun setting them is the equivalent of just not allowing the new or returning customers to have access to chapters that came out anytime in the last 9 months

@dmc1288

Жыл бұрын

No, it's really not. It's more equivalent to a series like The Expanse releasing novellas to shed extra light on things that are relevant but not essential to the main narrative. Destiny has ALWAYS delivered narrative in this way, that's WHY we have lore in the first place for people like Byf to build themselves a base of followers

@underscore_5450

Жыл бұрын

​@@dmc1288 fr. I'm not sure what parallel universe these people have come from where they're expecting a coherent narrative to be delivered in a good way from Bungie. Even WQ (the best story in their opinion) is held up by a lore book you can only read online and a whole prior season that is no longer in the game.

@dmc1288

Жыл бұрын

@@underscore_5450 right? For me, I can't believe the uproar about not having the veil immediately and completely explained when it's been eight years and we still don't even know what the Traveller is 😂😂

I would have loved a dialogue or one of those black-and-white cutscenes that just explained we didn't know what the veil is or does but that it was something the Witness needed - it felt like everyone else knew what it was except us, some acknowledgement would have gone a long way

@simonwahlen7150

Жыл бұрын

Yes, this exactly this. Just the understanding that we didn't know exactly why it was important or how we could use it but that savathun hid it and the witness needed it. Us trying to figure out do we: a) activate it to stop the next collapse, b) destroy it prevent the witness from using it, c) keep the witness from destroying it. Just that question being answered over the campaign the witness needs to use it so that's what we have to stop. And then after explaining how you can use the veil and us failing to stop the witness ghost backup plan then we can be left with the cliffhanger of what the witness did after linking to the traveler. We know you can link yourself to the traveler with the veil and a bit about how but then we can be left with the cliffhanger of what happened to the traveler. If they explain clearly that the traveler is "dissected" and silent, maybe even dead and that this portal is impossible for anything to pass through and we don't even know what dimension it leads to then we can begin figureing that out over the year. What we got instead when they try to make a mystery out of it: Where have the witness gone? Duh, inside the traveler we'll just follow through the portal. What happened to the traveler? it is still there, we still have the light, it is fine.

@anthonymanzo7867

Жыл бұрын

there is

@robert2german

Жыл бұрын

At the very least, the story should have confirmed what the Veil is, whether or not it actually is the Traveler’s “pale heart”; we can still get the mystery of figuring out what it does throughout the year.

@anthonymanzo7867

Жыл бұрын

@@robert2german what the veil is isn't nearly as important as what it does. And what the veil does/ can do is explained in the campaign.

@Caliif

Жыл бұрын

the biggest problem is that the story is told like we know what the veil and the radial mast are and what they do, I have no problem figuring these things out, but I feel like I should already know it

Well said and articulated! My favorite moment was Caiatl's words to her father at the end of the campaign it felt very meaningful and emotionally packed. My main problems with the campaign were the big lore contradictions like when we hesitated to shoot our ghost when it was already established we have to crush them with our hands due to the paracausality to actually kill them so that didn't make sense.

@wormer104

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Especially since in forsaken Cayde’s ghost was not crushed.

@nightgirlgaming1985

Жыл бұрын

That's not true. Ghosts have been killed by everything from blades to airstrikes. Its explained that you either need overwhelming firepower or to be paracausal to kill them, which we are. So shooting Ghost would've killed him

@wormer104

Жыл бұрын

@@nightgirlgaming1985 And a sniper bullet that looks to be a fifty cal vs something the size of a baseball would be overwhelming AF as the kids say.

@WplusMouse1

Жыл бұрын

@@nightgirlgaming1985 yeah at this point the implications behind us grabbing and smashing the ghost is probably more to stop them from getting away immediately like Imaru and Alak-hul's ghost both did

@Popexify

Жыл бұрын

We don't know yet the meaning of the word "Cemaili" said by Calus when we killed him, some people speculate that is Caiatl mother name.

I think the best way to describe the story is from my sister. She is very much a casual player. Enjoys the story, loves the activities. I was with her when she finished calus and the final cut scene. These words epitomize it all, "what?" That's all she had to say. No idea what happen or why the story ended there. Just, "what?" Was her response to the ending. No closure or answers.

The fact that last season we got one of the best cutscenes we’ve ever had and it was DELETED 2 weeks later is insane. Stuff like that does much more harm than Bungie probably realises.

@gustavoavila1982

Жыл бұрын

Yes I didn't have time to find all those yellow balls.. i didn't think they were gonna delete that content so soon... Shame on Bungie.

@mortimerbalbriggan9766

Жыл бұрын

​@Gustavo Avila they tell you when the season is ending a few months in advance

@corylyonsmusic

Жыл бұрын

To me, it makes sense. Destiny is being made for fans of Destiny. If we are fans, we saw it. If not, it's online for anyone else to see.🤷

@HiinyuShibari

Жыл бұрын

@@corylyonsmusic take your comment to any other media source and it looks ridiculous. If an author of a book has been writing books for awhile and is now on book 18 getting rid of every book before that because there’s now too many books and his reasoning is “because the fans already know what happened” is moronic. If I’m playing a game I should be able to learn about that games story from that game and other sources related to that game a 3rd party source such as byf should not be a reliable source for new people or people who missed out to get caught up on. I love my man’s content he gets me the in deep knowledge but by no means should he be the only way of getting caught up on the story after a season ends

@sexylazercatwizard

Жыл бұрын

​@corylyonsmusic not getting access to content I've paid for is ridiculous. Sunsetting is probably illegal, if any law firm would take the case.

For sure, the narrative is definitely the hardest part. The post-campaign meet up with Zavala and Ikora were just bewildering. I actually spend like half an hour making sure I didn't miss a campaign or cutscene, because what they were saying made no sense. I'm still deeply confused, and I'm not actually that excited for the monologuing that's going to try to address this stuff.

@internisus

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they both said that the Traveler is gone and talk like it's died even though it's still there, just with a mysterious portal carved into it, so we really don't understand its status at all.

@granmastersword

Жыл бұрын

@@internisus The only thing we have for clues is the prophecy wall from Vow of the Disciple stating how the Witness will commune with the Traveler and "drink its Light"

@Jackson-sr4fk

Жыл бұрын

@@granmastersword just a dead end plot point abandoned by bungie, dont look into it

@CobbyCorncob

Жыл бұрын

I was just about to type this same comment. To me, the traveler is the big white sphere that powers our ghosts and powers of the light, and both the physical sphere and our powers remain. So what do they mean that it's gone? The dialogue feels like it belongs in a completely different context, or Zavala and Ikora know something we don't.

@zubrhero5270

Жыл бұрын

I found their facial animations to be hilarious. Zavala was all "kiss your loved ones... cos we in the shit now, son" (direct quote) whilst giving off the goofiest, coyest smile.

HyperNet Current was my favorite mission through the campaign, but racing Calus in the final mission, from the very first moment we jumped down that silo, was my favorite in-game moment. The theatrics at play, from sound design to environmental effects to whatever else was happening, it was awesome.

@JohnKerans

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that was fun and genuinely nerve wracking. I absolutely LOVE when they give us these HUGE vertical spaces too, when they just make you realise how deep down some of these areas go, like the mission in the archology, or the whisper mission where you just drop down massive distances past huge features. Its a shame we don't have some kind of forge mode or photo mode so we can take more time to appreciate the work the environment team do

Hey you got to appreciate this, this is the first our character gave orders to Osiris and Caiatl. That a strong development on our character's part.

Whatever Bungie's cooking better smack harder than Nezzy's scythe and Rhulk's legs. But no matter how good the future quests are, the thought that it should've been at least a bit explained in Lightfall will be burning in the back of my mind.

@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong

Жыл бұрын

well, as much as I hate it bungie's business model is like 80% throwing hail marys that always seem to connect

@reprobatemind6194

Жыл бұрын

​@@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong Since day 1...

@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong

Жыл бұрын

@@reprobatemind6194 I mean, technically since Halo lol

@reprobatemind6194

Жыл бұрын

@@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong Still true... Industry leader in lucky concepts.

@prstechnic1774

Жыл бұрын

Personally i think the final shape is gonna flop. There is so much they are gonna have pull out of their a$$ to make all of it fit in the narrative. And, if im being honest, the expansion is probably gonna be the same size as lightfall with the same cookie cutter sized missions and a 4 encounter raid. There is no way they can wrap up the story in 9 missions.

Well said mate. I'm not sure why it's so easy for people to forget that you can have a discourse without it ending in violence.

@crunchy_cat

Жыл бұрын

@@ToadimusPrime should have ended the sentence at “you can”

@ZarChasmOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Tell that to the hive

@H240909

Жыл бұрын

@@ToadimusPrime Completely missing the point there. NOTHING justifies the level of bs that Byf was talking about.

@bannedmann4469

Жыл бұрын

Ending? Lol no. Unless you think harsh words are violence.

@ehoffart529

Жыл бұрын

Then what am I supposed to do with the 12 pack of pitchforks I bought?

I am LOVING grapple strand. Being able to use it to navigate Neomuna is so fun! In the campaign I actually enjoyed how the first encounter with the Tormentor made me ACTUALLY afraid. An enemy that ACTIVELY chases you with the ferocity that guardians usually take against easy enemies. I remember panicking and jumping around away from it just trying to catch my breath ! It made defeating them all the more satisfying as we grew stronger throughout the campaign. And that fight alongside Caiatl....a masterpiece *chefs kiss*

@LilNika117

Жыл бұрын

Obviously it means nothing to anyone but I appreciated reading this cause I've had a broken end game build for awhile now and with the new LF changes I've never felt as weak, which really upset me and made me feel like they balanced the new sandbox wrong. Now, maybe I'm seeing all things gotta move on and maybe the difficulty is actually right just to kick it up again. Make it interesting. I realised it was awhile since I felt like your description 😅

@JohnKerans

Жыл бұрын

While grapple is fun, I also love that the way subclasses work nowadays allows my hunter to play with threadlings, with the threadling grenades and fragments which let me spawn threadlings on finishers and strand weapon kills. FLY MY PRETTIES!

@dredgen0268

Жыл бұрын

Dude tormentors made me jump when that first one grabbed me. I was literally MASHING my buttons tryna break out lmao

@TCAmber

Жыл бұрын

@@dredgen0268 the PANIC of getting grabbed and mashing buttons while your health bar goes down was so intense

As much as i found this campaign story Lackluster, I had fun with strand. There were a few moments during the campaign where Rohan and Osiris, we talking at the pond and he asks Sagira to analyze something. Just to get slapped with the reality that he is lightless now.

I think I’m mostly bummed about Osiris. I wish they focused him being upset that he can’t go on the frontlines anymore and has to rely on others. It could have been a great moment for Rohan to teach Osiris that he has leadership and experience, that he doesn’t need to be on the frontlines to contribute. Rohan could have told Osiris that it is okay to rely on others, just as they have to with Nimbus. There could have been a great bonding moment with Osiris and Rohan talking about how they both only have one life left, reflecting on what their legacy will be. Nimbus and our guardian could have had a moment talking about how all Nimbus wants to do is live up to Rohans example, but they are scared because of the responsibility put upon them. Which could be why Nimbus jokes they way they do. It wouldn’t make it any less cringy, but I think it would have been more bearable with that context. I’ve been toying with the idea of writing dialogue for all of that for fun, because I enjoy writing. Edit: Before Lightfall even came out, I was predicting that Osiris would pursue becoming a Cloudstrider so he could “contribute more”, but is either turned down or chooses not to after learning that he doesn’t have to have the Light to be helpful.

@Shorkshire

Жыл бұрын

Nimbus should have died, not Rohan. Would have absolutely subverted our expectations and made for a much more interesting narrative considering Rohan is nearing the 10 year limit of his lifespan. Would've been really fucking cool, but instead we got some weird gen z "fellow Kidz* freak

@Swift_Arrow_

Жыл бұрын

@@Shorkshire i think it could have been a great lesson for Nimbus and Osiris if Nimbus and Osiris were the ones pushing us forward on the mission Rohan died. That way Rohan could have given caution, but then Rohan is forced to go in and save Nimbus and the guardian because he knows he’s closer to death. Nimbus could have been given a first hand account of sacrifice to learn from, and Osiris could have felt the absence of Rohan, learning that pushing forward and sacrificing for the sake of sacrifice has negative consequences. Then Osiris could have been offered to be made into a Cloudstrider, but turns it down because of what Rohan taught him.

@adamherrick6077

Жыл бұрын

I think all of this is very possibly the intent anyways. Nimbus’ joking and carefree nature could very well be a younger way of coping with their duty and mortality. Not all context needs to spoken aloud to be there.

@Swift_Arrow_

Жыл бұрын

@@adamherrick6077 I agree, but in my opinion the fact that we aren’t entirely sure is why it should have been directly addressed in some way. Almost none of the online dialogue I saw surrounding Nimbus explained the terrible dialogue, which to me means if the intent was for Nimbus to struggle with expressing his emotions and did it through joking, it wasn’t conveyed well enough.

@RurouniHiro

Жыл бұрын

See, what you wrote there is already shows so much more than the campaign… this explores and expand on important thing!

I find it absolutely astounding that our most detailed description of what the veil is that we got in the game came from the end of season of the seraph, which ISN’T EVEN IN THE GAME ANYMORE. The expansion where the veil is mentioned countless times, where it is a key plot point, and where we see it with our own eyes doesn’t live up to the single line of “… ‘the Veil’, an object of immense paracausal power. One that is linked to the Traveler.”

I really like the whole "Training" events with Strand. It made more sense than with stasis were we got those power influxes when commuting and we just "Knew" what we were doing the whole story

@krillffxiv5021

Жыл бұрын

I believe bc we were "remembering what was forgotten" bc the darkness brings memories back

@BrakoElMostro

Жыл бұрын

@@krillffxiv5021 Not during Stasis introduction, we were just being told to not let it control/corrupt us and other bits that are not 100% relevant to mastering it. Strand, while we were more familiar with Darkness, we wield it wrong hence the Exhaustion afterwards because we believed it the same as Stasis. If Stasis had the introduction as Strand then it would make a bit more sense if Strands was more like how Stasis was, due to being familiar with Darkness and it was being wielded "easily" without the change in perspective.

@hayato-dono5934

Жыл бұрын

​@@BrakoElMostro that's because strand is the only element that 'fights back', we were able to easily wield stasis because of the splinter Elsie gave us at the start of the campaign

@BrakoElMostro

Жыл бұрын

@@hayato-dono5934 Stasis fights back also by corrupting its user but its never seen in game.

As one who has trouble speaking about most things... Thank you for all that you do Byf you are an inspiration to many including myself.

Thank you for being a level-headed and considerate voice within the Destiny community! The bit about losing people that could have joined in our shared hobby really hit home. I really do love this game, it's been a part of my life since 2014, and it definitely hurts when *my team* loses (loved that analogy) and potential fans leave them behind...

@MrFraknak

Жыл бұрын

I literally stopped playing. I've been playing since the game came out and I've been heavily playing the last year. (Every title, gilding, for the whole last year, blah, blah) and now I just don't care. The narrative was pretty much non existent, they want us to play a garbage loop, especially after week one story content was a fucking battleground and done. Like this whole expansion is pathetic on a whole new level. Nothing was fun, everything felt tedious, and the characters were obnoxiously annoying. Saw a reddit post about how should have been nimbus dying and Rohan coming up grips that he may be the last cloud strider and the legacy and impact it would have for Neptune, but nah we got generic telegraphed sacrifice and now we have "hello fellow kids" nimbus. I just don't care anymore. It's not fun.

@KenpoKid77

Жыл бұрын

​@@MrFraknakThat's your opinion, and you have the right to feel that way, as do others who agree with you. But that's not the issue. The issue when people on either side of the coin comes across someone who disagrees and denigrates them just for having a difference of opinion. Have your opinion, let others have theirs, agree to disagree like adults, simple.

I have been playing Destiny since the Destiny 1 beta. I have been present for most of the major events for the story and left briefly when they started sunsetting content. Coming back into Witch Queen made me fall in love with the game again and was awestruck at the incredible environmental designs with Savathun's throne world and Rhulk's pyramid and the story was encapsulating to the point of me becoming addicted to it. I wanted to learn everything about these characters that I've been following for almost 10 years and the new ones that were perfectly implemented into the vast universe of the game. It really breaks my heart to see such a schism in the community that Lightfall has caused. What you said about nuances and how people are so quick to group the entire game as a whole into "game good" or "game bad". There was a time were I also thought destiny was game bad and times I've thought game good. And now that I'm older, I'm able to realize not everything is black and white and just because a part of something is bad, it doesn't mean the whole thing is bad. But when it comes to new players, they don't have that luxury and will be led on first impressions alone. Lightfall is not a beginner friendly expansion and nor do I think its veteran player friendly either. I think that the game is having a hard time catering to both audiences and is dragged down with missed opportunities. However I did enjoy playing with strand which in my opinion is one of the most fun subclasses they've added and Bungie always makes amazing environments and exotic weapons, not to mention the music and reading into extra lore. I have such high hopes for this game and I realize that those hopes turn into expectations and when they aren't ment then it disappoints me greatly. I really enjoyed hearing you speak about your passion Byf and I hope you continue to speak about it.

@jacobmaldonado4376

Жыл бұрын

Well said. Thank you.

@thepromocode

Жыл бұрын

It really breaks my heart to see such a schism in the community that 'byf' has caused

@anthonymanzo7867

Жыл бұрын

@@thepromocode I mean, he didn't cause it but he isn't helping.

Byf was the first person I thought about when I completed the campaign. I had hope he could answer the 100 questions I had. Glad to know he also has 100 questions about the story himself

Something I loved and I don't see mentioned enough is the semi-destructible environments. It's a little touch but it plays well and it makes the combat somehow better, more chaotic.

@rydout

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I love that.

@willhardy9731

Жыл бұрын

I remember be stuck in that door that you had to destroy for so long that I had to Google it lmao

@rydout

Жыл бұрын

@@willhardy9731 lol. Nice.

I was one of those people that was glad that Bungie shrouded parts of the game in mystery and had full faith in them to slowly unfold that story and answer all the questions they’ve introduced. Except that was back in 2014. After almost every yearly expansion I have showed the narrative team grace for not answering fundamental questions that we have been asking since D1. But LF did me in. I’m a veteran player who can no longer suspend by disbelief in Bungie to tell a good story.

@nicks8846

Жыл бұрын

fr remember back in shadowkeep and beyond light when we knew that campaigns were shit and filler but we accepted it lmaoo💀

@livindeath1643

Жыл бұрын

So the story only kept you hooked for 9 years. Lol. Yeah, Lightfall was mediocre, but y'all are the whiniest people around

@camolot2102

Жыл бұрын

​​​@@livindeath1643 you do realize that not everyone play this game just for the story right?

@leroyrodgers6089

Жыл бұрын

You can say they left you stranded!

@maniacalcoast2742

Жыл бұрын

Yeah dude I think lightfall was the straw that broke my back. Even the original expectations we had with the teased photo/thumbnail of the pyramid was drastically better. It’s concerning to me that an expansion’s dlc is needing to have its story be told by 10$ seasons for the next 3-4 times like wiw

Byf, I love you lol The beginning of this video is something that many people needed to hear. It's always a pleasure to hear your thoughts and opinions about things like this.

@arbiter-

Жыл бұрын

i promise you anyone that actually did that isn't going to watch this video

Well done video Byf! Showing nuance, reason and critical thinking.... like you made this vid for your most hard-core fans... I've been labeled as a Bungie fan boy by my gamer friends and really I'm a true fan of storytelling, just so happens that my favorite game does so much right to keep me here... I've been saying since day one of Lightfall... many are having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees!

Throughout Halo and Destiny, I loved Bungie's ability to leave us with elements of uncertainty without leaving us annoyed. I've greatly enjoyed speculating, like back in the day considering what the Ark was before Halo 3 released. Lightfall...went too far in one direction. Bungie didn't have the balance of questions answered and questions posed. If we knew what the veil was, cloud ark, black heart, but were still speculating on the Witness's full plan, that would be fine. But EVERYTHING is a cliff hanger. And I agree that this being the end of the saga should've felt more impactful. While technically the year of lightfall just started, the main story needed more impact IMO

The most frustrating thing about the campaign was how many times I thought to myself, "why didn't they do ______, that would make way more sense." If these thoughts happen to often (which they did) it becomes more frustrating to play.

I actually do like mystery and the idea that we figure out what the Veil is over the year, but as Byf touched on in his first lightfall video, if there's going to be a mystery, it needs to feel like it's meant to be a mystery - not like every NPC knows what's going on but won't tell us

@GirthCheck

Жыл бұрын

Why do you think it feels that way? Nimbus and Osiris literally say they don't know what the veil is. It's written that they don't know and we are gonna figure it out.

@AndrewLinArchives

Жыл бұрын

@@GirthCheck If they said that in the campaign I think it needed to be emphasized more. But also Osiris seems to know the veil linking with the traveler is bad, but he doesn't really make us know that he knows that. Even a simple line like "my research shows this could be disastrous" would make it feel better

@GirthCheck

Жыл бұрын

@Andrew Lin we know its bad because we heard what the witness wanted to do through our ghost. We know it's bad because it's what the witness is trying to do. They express that they don't know in the Dialogue.

As a story writer myself I am acutely aware of the narrative and plot as I experience it, and I love nothing more than to feel myself riding the waves of the story, taken away with it, and knowing what will happen next is the narrative catharsis; when your questions are answered. It’s when Sherlock discovers the identity of Moriarty, what he’s done, and even knows what the villain is going to do next. BUT HOW?? The chase is on! Every answer makes the stakes *higher* because the truth reveals more and more just how dire the situation is, and how dastardly evil the villain is. My point is that I agree with Byf that this was not the time for questions shrouded in shadows, it’s the time for answers. Most importantly; answers in the final act create more tension and urgency than the questions which piled up before. It’s like rifling through the suspect’s paperwork hidden in their desk, finding more and more prof they’re involved in not just what you’re tailing them for, but EVERYTHING. You remember clues you didn’t even know you had! At any point in the mission dialogue multiple characters could have answered Ghost asking, “What is the veil? I’ve never heard of it,” with a myriad of theories from Nimbus, Rohan, and Osiris. Even if Bongus didn’t give answers, *at least* give us a direction and clues. When the day 1 beta players and lore nerds like myself are left in the dark, there’s a big problem.

It actually would have been fine if Rohan pulled a "Dude where's my car, continuum transfunctioner" and told us "The Veil is a powerful and mysterious weapon, and it's mystery is only exceeded by it's power... But it seems to have infinite power that keeps our city alive." The problem is that everyone seems to know what it is, and won't tell us.

I wonder what people would have thought of Lightfall if they had made one simple change: when you finally get down to the root of the Veil, it looks like the Heart of the Black Garden. Personally, I would have freaked the f*^% out (in a good way). It’s clearly where they wanted to go with it, and I think it would have singularly improved with minimal effort. However, I would love to hear about your thoughts on the idea.

@christopherp63

Жыл бұрын

True, it would’ve been like the pyramid moment from Shadowkeep

@nerm9507

Жыл бұрын

Would have definitely been a full circle moment, but the implications of the veil being linked with the Heart would be too great I think. Not saying it isn’t possible, but that’s not a “simple change” in any way

@onikemcfee3506

Жыл бұрын

In the post campaign missions, it is revealed that the heart was a failed replica of the veil, so it would have been explained nicely why they would have looked so similar

@LOVEMUFFIN_official

Жыл бұрын

@@nerm9507 I mean graphics wise. We learn from the post-campaign exotic mission that the Heart was intended to replicate the Veil. Having the pulsating orb (possibly harnessed by some sort of Vex-inspired frame; this is partly the work of the Ishtar Collective after all) instead of the random glow bathing Calus in the final fight wouldn’t have necessitated any additional changes to the story: aside from the Guardian and Ghost, nobody who actually saw the Veil had ever seen the Heart, so it would not necessitate any change besides tweaking and implementing a reused asset. They still wouldn’t explain anything: even after all these years we have no clue what the Heart actually was, but it would effectively answer one question with another, bringing the world full circle and lining up the opportunity to explore one of Destiny’s most enduring mysteries.

@random_n

Жыл бұрын

Calus steps in and roars "So, my shadow, do you think you can kill a God?"

Byf I absolutely love that you are able to see and understand (the most important part) both sides. The fact that you’re able to see why people are angry or defensive really shows that you’re a level above some people and I give true props to that. Seeing both sides is one thing but understanding and accepting both sides is an infinitely more rare ability so thank you for being cool like that

@thepromocode

Жыл бұрын

sounds like devils advocate. over 500,000 views on his kneejerk reaction vid vs 2,300 negative reviews on steam. thats the discourse :/ every destiny dlc has been to some extent a narrative let down that introduces more questions. i get its frustraiting but how can you play destiny and not expect that? that wild to me. the community will never get exactly what they want. why is it different now? because byf is fed up. byf got overentitled and forgot about tempering the expectations of his fans, infact 'loredaddy' became as impaitent as them.

@dmc1288

Жыл бұрын

​@@thepromocodethis exactly, and it's why I've unsubscribed. I used to come to Byf for insight on lore and to see what's relevant/cool to read, I've never been into his 'critique' videos because I don't value that. Content creators in general need to remember their place, they wouldn't have the followings they do if not for this game, I don't find it constructive to start absolutely dumping all over the game and the people who worked hard on it on a first 24 hour snap reaction coloured by the views of their twitch chats.

@ateacup2788

Жыл бұрын

“Content creators need to remember their place” The kind of takes you find in the KZread comment section 💀 the kinda guy that goes “monarchy is good actually” or “Think about the CEOs” or some other bootlicker shit

@dmc1288

Жыл бұрын

@@ateacup2788 yes, and? If Byf et al are allowed to express their, in my opinion, poor takes on the game to a million plus of their followers, am I not allowed the same latitude to say I think they're wrong and far too big for their britches?

@dmc1288

Жыл бұрын

@@ateacup2788 monarchy is good? Literally what are you on about you know precisely zero about me you utter nugget

I feel one can not please ever one.. you will win some and you lose some. That's just a harsh reality some will have to deal with. It's to shame to lose new players or returning players, but there is always a risk.. for the record, you make a lot good points here. For me, this is like comic books in a ways. Things change. Not everthingis is going to great. I like to keep hope alive.

you said you hope to have voiced our opinions and for me personally you have hit the nail on the head i wish i had a platform to voice them but at least we got a member of the community who is level headed enough to say the right thing at the right time

I think one of the big reasons Witch Queen performed so well was because it was a conclusion to a LORE-BASED mystery that had been in the story and had been driving the story for years. I think one of the big reasons Lightfall fell wo flat was because it introduced a MAINLINE mystery that would be resolved at an unknown point in the future (until they revealed it). I think the biggest difference is that they left one of the biggest mysteries in the game not as lore, but a main story thread. Witch Queen had years of introduction and had previous storylines changed to fit that side-story into the background. Lightfall? It had season of the seraph's hunt for nefele stronghold which only occurred after the reveal. Sorry for paragraph

@petergutierrez8730

Жыл бұрын

That's one of the really amazing things about Witch Queen, grounded in Lore, brought it to the forefront - and it completed what was established there along with pulling you in with another mystery.

@1943rfagan

Жыл бұрын

It's much simpler than that. Even pretending Savathun had no build up what's so ever, Witch Queen still simply has a better plot and characters with far more interesting personalities. In witch queen you got a better understanding of what was happening after each mission, light fall on the other hand has little progression in story at all besides learning strand and chasing after a plot device which is never explained.

Hey, new opinion just dropped

@Loderyod

Жыл бұрын

Finally, I was _STARVING_ for a new opinion to consume!

@Everrrrr

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Byf! Now I know what to think.

@DanYami

Жыл бұрын

let me DEVOUR your OPINIONS

@poplthemaidensrevengetmr3573

Жыл бұрын

This is more of a Datto thing, but I get the resistance

@nickh4354

Жыл бұрын

Yep I was pretty close to having my own opinion, thank God we dodged that bullet. What am I, an individual 🤣

This video provides good perspective. Well done, Byf. I’m going to hypothesize here: From what I have seen of Lightfall, one unfortunate thing was that there is a lot happening. What I mean is this: there is the side of the Witness and the Traveler and all that this side entails, there is the side of Strand and beginning to delve into the nature of paracausality. If this was solely the Strand expansion in a similar way to Beyond Light being the Stasis expansion, with us discovering Strand and beginning to use it against the Witness’s forces with story still pointing towards the confrontation between the Traveler and the Witness, then things may have gone better in storytelling and community reception/perception as there would be sufficient time for developing Strand as a gameplay element and story element and sufficient time for discussing what are our current plot holes. If the events of the final mission and cutscene were to happen more closely before Final Shape with Final Shape seeing us jump from Neptune to Earth in hot pursuit of the Witness through the whatever-that-is in the Traveler’s side which is something we will likely do in Final Shape, that could have a more substantial impact and be received better. As an alternative hypothetical: if we had only been exposed to the race to Neptune to secure the Veil to prevent it from falling into the Witness’s control, lose as we did in canon, and spend these next few seasons finding a way to recoup the Veil or follow the Witness through the whatever-that-is with Strand being an integral part of that process, I would think that that would have potential for better reception/perception. This is a all rough draft-style hypothetical, but I do think that a part of the issue was taking on the separate issues of the new Strand power alongside the events over Earth and with the Veil on Neptune ultimately put too much strain and pressure on the storytellers at Bungie to do too much at once for a single narrative experience.

I appreciate what you provide to the community. Many times you do well to highlight details of he story I'm too lazy to look into it, but I do enjoy the lore. Thanks for all that you provide. In this video you mention that you love the parts of Osiris talking about strand. What about Eris's dialogue during the beginning of Duality? "I have snared that thread. Caught it between my fingers and woven it into a tapestry. One that I can weave you into." I just found this interesting as Osiris also said it was like threads.

What Byf was talking about at this point 16:00 hits home. I started playing in season of the Haunted. And really, the Witch Queen campaign really took me in. Then, I played Beyond light and finally shadow keep. Yes, the order I played it was wrong, but I don't actually know what the proper order was at that time. I did try to make my own theories although I don't have a lot of details available to me. Then, I searched for a place where I can check if my theories are true; that's when I found Byf's channel. And yes, the things that were confusing became clearer due to Byf's videos. If channels like Byf's wasn't around, the story wouldn't had made sense to me. Especially since some campaigns had been sunset. If anyone knows the game "Blackout Club" here, you would understand how hard it is to try and enjoy a story when things that used to be a big part of the story are no longer available.

@enbydeadly

Жыл бұрын

holy shit someone else who played that it was incredibly ambitious, and really cool whenever one of the voices invaded your game, but yeah without those the story just feels kinda empty, the interactions with them and the lore it revealed were the story, its different just reading about it vs experiencing it

@drache3370

Жыл бұрын

I started playing at the end of season of the lost, when forsaken still was a thing and free to play. I didn't even realize Forsaken was a DLC, I just started playing... I didn't get the lore back then, but I knew Cade-6 was important... More than one year has passed since then and I started to understand the lore. Later I also got the other DLCs and I also played them in the wrong order but I enjoyed them non the less. I hope Forsaken returns as a free to play DLC so new players start their journey into the world of Destiny with some pieces of lore they are able to understand without having to watch Byf's videos.

@allentayoto7387

Жыл бұрын

@@enbydeadly The "Voices interaction" in Blackout club are pretty much "canon" after all. Without them it's pretty hard to understand the story unless you look through other sources. Iirc, there are even events that have a huge impact on the story that you can't really experience in the game anymore. Which is sad, because Blackout club have a really cool lore.

@allentayoto7387

Жыл бұрын

@@drache3370 When I started, in my case, I actually thought Savathun was like the big bad of the game, and the guardians had been fighting her from the beginning. So I was surprised to know that Witch Queen is actually the very first time the guardians confronted Savathun directly. Since in the past season, Savathun was acting as Osiris and when she did reveal herself, we didn't really fight her in game (Not sure if it was season of hunt or lost).

I’m sure other people will hit the points I’d like to. Just wanted to say you’re a Gem Byf and we’re genuinely lucky to have you in the community.

@SquirrelyDan6422

Жыл бұрын

Came here to say this. Thank you Byf 🤘

@bandgeek2309

Жыл бұрын

Luv u loredaddy

My admiration for Byf, as a content creator and as a human being, couldn't be higher. You, my good sir, is an example! Thank you for everything

The music we got to experience during this expansion is one of my favorites thus far, made a playlist as soon as the album released

The biggest issue I had personally was the weird sort of “outside looking in” vibe that surrounded the Veil and the Ghost’s connection to the traveler - as seemingly the only character in the story who had no idea what these things meant, it felt like the plot was gatekeeping me or something. All it would’ve taken for me was visible confusion from a few other characters as to what the hell was happening, and the ones who seemed in the know to indicate they would explain (I.e. Caitl promising to elaborate on why “we lost” - could’ve been a seasonal story element). TLDR: Mysteries don’t bug me, the implication that I should understand parts of the mystery that aren’t touched on does.

@thepromocode

Жыл бұрын

'it felt like the plot was gatekeeping me or something' have you ever played destiny before?

@sydious_s_snake

Жыл бұрын

@@thepromocode picking up on the wrong part Rob

@zeropercentprogress

Жыл бұрын

In that last line from Caitl one single word change would have made a world of difference in the conclusion. Change "We just lost" to "We just failed", we're across the damn galaxy and have no idea if we lose because of this. What we do know is we failed to keep the witness from establishing a link with the veil which was the whole point of the campaign arc. I also agree that even one person showing a little confusion as to what the veil actually is would have been nice.

My biggest problem with the whole thing is the cliff hanger. There wasn't one... If you plan on releasing info in bits that's fine, but you have to set it that way. Give Osiris a few lines like " I'm not sure what it is yet, but I'm trying to figure it out. " Most authors of a story will let you know that a cliff hanger is happening. But not here

@Fitchy-ke3wz

Жыл бұрын

EXACTLY

Saw someone give a pretty accurate comparison to the state of Destiny 2's narrative right now, and they said something along the lines of: "It's as if you had a book series, except the first four books were missing and all the other books had multiple pages torn out that would have given a lot of context for what's happening now." As someone who started playing around 2018 when Forsaken dropped, I immediately fell in love with the story, characters, and setting of Destiny, even going so far as to watch every lore video I could about every aspect of the game I didn't understand or wanted to know more of. Things about the Cabal, the Vex, Ghaul's past, Calus and who he is is/was were all things I loved reading about. I spent HOURS reading through old grimoire cards from the first game, reading item descriptions, looking for secrets and genuinely enjoying the world and lore that were seemingly everywhere. Even things like speculating what that giant creature under the waves of Titan was, wondering what Calus had become after encountering the Darkness, information about the Weapons of Sorrow, all these interesting bits of world building that just kept pulling me in made me want to play nothing else but Destiny (That, plus the gunplay is just a lot of fun and Warlock scratches that "magic caster" itch of mine). After I noticed the direction Bungie was going with their seasonal model and reliance on FOMO, specifically when it came to story content, I found myself losing interest and dropped right before Beyond Light because I could see the writing on the wall. I came back just a few weeks ago to play through Beyond Light and Witch Queen because they were on sale only to find that the world had changed without me actually progressing through the story at all. There were now Fallen and Cabal in the tower, Uldren was back as Crow, during Witch Queen I learned Osiris had apparently been "possessed" at some point by Savathun. And that's not to mention that the SECOND I selected my character and loaded in, I was thrown into the beginning of Lightfall without having started Beyond Light or Witch Queen yet. And now, from everything I've heard about Lightfall, it would seem that Bungie has stopped caring about new or returning players in regards to their story and narrative. It seems they just vault story content at the end of every year so any players who took a break, got busy with life, or are brand new will be completely lost as much of the story and explanations are being hidden in time-limited content that isn't even included in the DLC that introduces the story in the first place. I understand that some people are okay with this and enjoy the idea of an ever-evolving world, but when that ever-evolving world means that new or returning players are going to be completely lost on your narrative unless they've played the seasons (Which might not exist by the time they come back), then you've essentially lost your only drawing factor towards keeping people pulled in. The whole "You had to be there" in order to even understand who some of these characters are and why I should care about them leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. And I'm saying all of this as someone who has a deep love for the story and narrative of this game. I can't even to begin to imagine a new player seeing all of this, wondering what's happening, who these characters are, and being understandably overwhelmed and giving up because the narrative is so disjointed and all over the place without proper context that they would normally get that is no longer in the game anymore. In my opinion, I feel like Bungie needs to go back to the old way of having a normal game and story that progresses from one beat to the next and EVENTUALLY gets a player caught up to speed with the current narrative, but I suppose they had to scrap that idea for their seasonal model and New Light "experience." I'm much more of a fan of big DLC's every once in a while, as opposed to time-limited drip-fed content, but maybe that's just me and maybe content droughts really are bad for Bungie. I've got my own problems with Bungie's new "FAST over quality" direction shown by the General Manager in the 2022 GDC, and it's a part of the reason I don't think the seasonal model is a good idea, but that's another can of worms altogether. Regardless, as someone thoroughly enjoys the world of Destiny and wants to get back into it, I just can't commit to spending more money and time, knowing the content I love won't even be there a year down the line, especially if Bungie is basically going to have to go back and say "Sorry we didn't put the story in the campaign where the story should have been, instead we'll just fix what should have been included from the start." I think this has something to do with their whole "A fast game will BECOME great" design that allows them to deliver something that is sub-par at best and try to fix it later. Overall, I guess I'm just disappointed to see a story and game I love slowly collapsing in on itself due to bad leadership and lack of any real direction.

You really hit the nail on the head with the Veil being the new "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain". Without that understanding, the witness eviscerating the traveller at the end of the expansion really felt like a huge jumping of the gun. If the campaign focused on the cabal invasion of neomuna (spending more time showing how callus's power was beyond our ability to overcome without strand ), and the seasonal story was about the battle to protect the traveller, earth, and the coalition forces (including the expansion cut scenes that showed the traveller defending itself), with the Witness eviscerating the traveller as the season finale, it would have been a master stroke. It would have pissed people off, but they could even have put the raid at the end of the seasonal story, without changing anything about it. So there is still major content to enjoy 5 weeks after "the beginning of the end of destiny's 10 year arc" This way, it would have actually felt like a SEASON of defiance. Instead, it felt like 5 hot minutes of defiance, followed by a game of chess where the enemy king was on some other board.

I was disappointed by the lack of explanations about the veil and the loss of Rohan. Full disclosure I literally just had to ask my partner what his name was because of how little time we were allowed to spend with him. I would have preferred the opportunity to get to know Rohan for at least 3 or four missions with cutscenes before he died. Because I tried interacting with him during the campaign outside of the missions, there wasn't even the option to talk to him outside of the initial instance. And then Osiris's moment where he forgot Sagira was dead...that broke my heart. I wish they'd stop torturing Osiris and have him central to the plot without having to make him suffer. I would happily allow an ahamkara to kill me with their magic if it meant that Osiris' grief was treated with respect. He reminds me a little too much of my dad and what my dad was like in the three years prior to his death this past June. I have watched too many of my relatives grow old and lose themselves.

@MasterJunior93

Жыл бұрын

My condolences.

While the story may not have been exactly where I wanted it, I’ve not played this game this much since d2 released. I’m loving the seasonal content and am looking forward to finding out more. Always enjoy your content.

The thing that made me quit is that they (Bungie) were selling Strand as a grapple intense, high flying and exciting thing and then we get to play it and grapple is LITERALLY the longest cooldown we had. That's not fun to the point it's annoying.

I have mine up on an action base 2 and the old fork connector is what I’m using to attach it. I did build it over a year ago so I’m not sure if I’ve done any customization to the part

I’m glad that of all the things done well enough narratively with lightfall was Nezarec. I remember being so disappointed at the end of plunder, but little did I know he’d be the best character in lightfall

@acupoflatte8594

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I love the story of Nezarec. It's just a lil disappointing that the fight against Nezarec was a little.... minute.

@hashtunr4952

Жыл бұрын

@@acupoflatte8594 a little? Without the damage of contest, the poor thing is a absolute pushover. Such a shame for what might indeed be the best character of the DLC.

@MaxM227

Жыл бұрын

@@hashtunr4952 He also looks pretty lame for the supposed "God of Pain"

@Shorkshire

Жыл бұрын

Lol what? The dudes a fucking pajama wearing weirdo that we drank as tea yet somehow he's a raid boss. Nothing surrounding him makes any fucking sense

@carloslang5840

Жыл бұрын

@@MaxM227 yeah i was really expecting a grim reaper type of scary thing. Large sythe bleeding void energy and darkness, ripped up robe flowing in the wind, opens his robe and lets out nightmares… could have been very creepy and menacing

I had a friend who came back from Beyond light, and he literally asked me "Who was Mithrax again?", "Wait is Eramis alive?" "Who is Caiatl?", and a bunch of seasonal questions. All I could say was to watch Byf videos since there is no place in the game to expplain all this

Hey Byf, do you find it odd that we are back on the farm, with fragments of the traveler in plain sight off in the distance? It can't be pure coincidence, can it? What if the witness winds up draining the light and we lose our powers and have to do something that we did in red war and have to use the fragments to restore our powers for one final stand against the witness? And then we have those antenna in the raid that are connected to the roots of that tree and said antenna are pointing straight at the traveler. What's your thoughts on that?

I love near the end where you choose complexity over simplicity. Truly a defender of the light

He hath spoken... I have a lot to say, but instead I'll just say: I hope Bungie's gamble with The Final Shape pays off.

@victorian8314

Жыл бұрын

same. i also have high hopes for the new dungeon next season. hopefully it will add lore to the game too since it’s season of the deep

@soapmakestunes

Жыл бұрын

Yep. 100%. We can only hope.

@flamingscar5263

Жыл бұрын

I think it will, lightfall and final shape were once the same expansion but had to be split due to time constraints, if I had to guess the vail itself was just a last minute "Oh shit we need something for lightfall" and Bungie had no intentions on ever introducing it until they had to split lightfall and final shape Lightfall wasn't always filler, but became filler, you can really tell in the tone shift, when we originally were shown lightfalls name it had a dark, dreary vibe, but once the split happened all of a sudden its a cyberpunk city, hell neomuna itself story wise feels rushed, "uhhhhh yea there's this city that no one knew about on Neptune with this really important thing on it"

@crunchy_cat

Жыл бұрын

If they drop the ball the franchise may die straight up

@eliaspanayi3465

Жыл бұрын

I still trust them to conclude this saga to be a great story, but I accept that bungie isn't perfect and has very much dropped the ball here

You know, after some thought, I think I realized why I enjoyed the Lightfall story while so many people were angry: I didn't care about the Veil. It sounds weird, but I just didn't think about it that much. It was another Black Heart, or Cryptoglyph, or Crux of Darkness, or Enclave Relic, or even Traveler. A shining macguffin that's important because it does vague important things. This one powers Neomuna, and the Witness needs it to complete its evil plan. That's enough for me, because the Veil isn't what I'm focusing on while going through the story. In my mind, I came into this expansion with the expectation that I would learn how to use Strand, use it to kill Calus, and save Neomuna. When I came out of the expansion, I felt satisfied because those expectations were completely met. I saw the Veil as a background element of the story, one that could drive the conflict between us and Calus. I don't mind the Veil remaining a mystery that slowly unfolds over the year, because the mystery around the Veil is tangential to the meat of the Lightfall story, like the mystery around the Witness was in Witch Queen.

@dpm1789

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for explaining perfectly what I’ve been trying to put into words. Did first mission on release night and felt happy. Woke the next morning to continue playing and was met with a litany of negativity. Was really disappointing when I was just trying to have fun stopping Calus. I knew the witness wasn’t the big bad of the expansion and didn’t expect to gain much knowledge about fighting or stopping him. Last couple of seasons built up Calus. We fight Calus in LF. LF year builds up witness and veil. Final shape we fight witness. Seemed easy enough to me.

@petergutierrez8730

Жыл бұрын

You make an interesting point. The real big reveal stuff will get fleshed out overtime, but for now this was really about Calus, Neomuna, and Strand. Putting expectations there sounds like a good idea to me

@Silencersix

Жыл бұрын

This. And, to me, *“Stop Calus and the Witness from USING the Veil, actually find out what it is later when things cool down”* made sense from a logical standpoint.

My friend talked me into getting destiny 2 about a month ago. Here are the raw experiences and opinions of a brand new player. I thought I bought the wrong game, as the intro is identical to the previous game. Every single cutscene or piece of dialogue leaves me asking "who is that? What's going on? I thought he was dead? Where is this?" Etc All the "good story" expansions mean nothing, because they are gone and may as well never have existed to me. All story that there is is accessible at any time, meaning I have no idea what is supposed to happen before something else. Gameplay is fun, but the story is so disjointed/inaccessible that I don't even consider it a part of the game

Without your channel I'd be totally lost. Thanks for all your hard work, very much appreciated 👍

4:36 holy fuck, mad Byf is not something I expected to hear. But the community needs to hear it

@ZarChasmOfficial

Жыл бұрын

It sounds like when the nice teacher gets mad at the class

@Starfloofle

Жыл бұрын

@@ZarChasmOfficial That's a very apt comparison for him given his role in the community here lol

@MortuusTyrannus

Жыл бұрын

He sounds like he’s scolding a child and I don’t think it’s productive. But he’s certainly free to do as he pleases.

@blackout2189

Жыл бұрын

@@MortuusTyrannus When people use his arguments as a "reason" to be pieces of shit, I think the anger and scolding is valid. It won't do anything because people like that aren't going to take this as a moment to rethink their actions, but I get the frustration.

@MortuusTyrannus

Жыл бұрын

@@blackout2189 idk. People will use anything as an excuse to act poorly. There’s nothing that byfe’s ever said that would cause a rational, mature adult to make death threats against other human beings. Still think it’s better to act as the bigger person and not talk down to people. It’s unproductive at best. But to each their own I guess. 🤷‍♂️

This is a bit outside of the campaign, but expanding more on the nature of strand and just ALL of our subclasses in general was a great choice; it gives us a better understanding of both the light and dark, and gives us room to speculate

Thank you good sir for that fantastic reality check that some in the community needed! I am going to limit these to three in a way, but nuance matters :) Things I loved with this expansion: 1. Quality of life changes, load outs, shaders vender, more shader options to obtaining them, the find a fire team changes, ranks. 2. challenging exotic quests that have some great call backs. 3. new sub class. Initially I wasn't a fan and now I do quite like it, plus variety is nice. Negatives for me: 1. Story, I dont mind mystery and it causing theories, with promise of reveals, but this story had to many mysteries and its focus felt disjointed. To me it felt like this was a campaign of discovering strand but yet the narrative was about protecting the vail. Take beyond light, it was about exploring darkness and stasis, with the narrative and actions take during that story that leads the player to understanding darkness more and how it can be wielded for good or evil. the antagonist was using that same power. This story though was protect the vail, oh and Osiris wants us to experiment with a new power completely unknown while we do that. The story could have been about the vail, and how strand is derived from it, in my opinion. We should have been exploring archives that would tell players how it powers the cloud arc, and so forth. But what was delivered was a story with two things happening and no interconnectivity with a lack of resolution. Please keep in mind readers I am being broad on this and simplifying for the sake of brevity. 2. Mod changes. SO i am torn on this. I liked the variety and variability we had with all the old mods, now it feels like with the smaller pool there is less individuality and combinations that can occur now I could be wrong and might be, but at present to me it feels more like: If you are this subclass you run these mods in this specific combination to optimize damage output, other combinations are not viable or able to compete. NOW I know that is a gross over simplification its just an impression I presently have. I hope we get more mods and options with future seasonal content. 3. Umbral engrams being removed. I like the ability to focus the engrams with the different venders I dislike them having to be specific to that vender, umbral engrams could have been focused at any vender in my opinion with the adept options just costing more. I would make an exception to this for iron banner and trials those are different in there own way and would make since to have their own engrams to me. Id just rather been able to use the collected engrams more freely. Like on focusing seasonal things or a specific vender if I wanted to instead of having to run a singular activity over and over to farm that specific engram, let me play all the variety the game has to offer and spend it where I see value. I know I typed more for the negatives, but that's only to thresh out my reasoning on those. The positives to me made me still enjoy the game and the negatives are just that areas for critic and improvement for the devs. To any devs that might see this. Thank you for all the work and attention to this game, I dont think you hear that enough, admits the barrage of negatives and complaints, that lack any structural feedback. A random theory. My friend and I upon completing the campaign were discussing the meaning of the ending. He stated, seems like the traveler is the Witnesses "Ghost" it just opened like a ghost sorta and are just on a more massive scale. Now I know there is plenty to contradict that but in a way sorta makes since and was a fun thought. Finally, A moment of solidarity for the passing of Lance Reddick. I do wonder if that is why we did not have many speaking lines from Zavala the last season and this. Amazing individual and he will be missed.

All very well put as always Byf. As a long time player, I am enjoying Lightfall. I can 100% see where people (both new, returning, and old) could be disappointed. I very much enjoy the "answer one question, ask two more" aspect of Destiny. I'm in my second playthrough of the campaign on my first alt and I'm starting wonder; do Ronin and Nimbus even know what the Veil is? Some of the further lore while restoring the Striders data seems to imply that exploring the inner workings CloudArk and Veil are taboo among the Neptune population. Nimbus is amazed when we find that proto CloudArk in the final missing which implies they never were that deep into the facility. Had they ever even SEEN the Veil? All the "hurry to the Veil" is abrupt but Osiris has been obsessing about it since he woke at the end of Plunder. Once the Striders realize the threat they are "hurry to the Veil" too. There's a lot more to be answered coming. Was this Bungie's plan all along? I'm not sure. Am I going to be here for the ride? You bet.

one of my main takeaways from Lightfall: give that marketing team a RAISE!

@bannedmann4469

Жыл бұрын

Well.. yes, but no. They actually false advertised via the hand cannon on the cover, and the non existing intro screen for a 6 man activity.

@Atypical_Typo

Жыл бұрын

​@@bannedmann4469 I also thought Neomuna would be MUCH more vertical. Like actual skyscrapers and stuff. That's why when I first saw the trailer, I was like "Is this Destiny?"

@omensoffate

Жыл бұрын

Yea they are good at lying

My biggest complaint is the writing of the main expansion, the expansion serves as the core and foundation for the year since it is the largest content drop we get every year. The story sums up to strand and save the veil or protect it, while I am thinking “what the hell is it?” It could have been done easily in the last mission with some dialogue or a cutscene and it was botched, a few lines could have made the last mission insane, but it was lack luster and the subtle lore is still there like the stuff with Asher in the network is awesome to see and the speculation is fun for future seasons. But as a major release the gameplay is fun the story is beyond bad, at this point in time

We need more people to see this video. This was very well said overall with everything that Lightfall has delivered and how Destiny 2 is shaping up for the future.

After seeing the talk about that future story quest bits in TWAB. I feel that the narrative team may trying new ways to make story content, like a "seasonalized" core expansion campaign narrtive that will stay throughout the year. Maybe they want you to come back every season and see more quests and missions expanding the main campaign along with the seasonal story. So the main narrative of Lightfall stays throughout the year, and you get the usual seasonal story on a different front. Like right now Season of Defiance is happening in parallel with the Lightfall main story. They don't even have a connection yet (to me that is). They picked a pretty bad time to do this considering we are at the end of a story arc. We are accustomed to what Bungie has been doing all these years, expectations are there. Missing the expectation have consequences, hence where we are now. And Bungie didn't do a good job communicating what they want to do with the story neither. Leave something to hint that story will be expanded upon later helps a lot. But if this next season Veil story quest is a quick add after all the negativity broke lose. Then all I said is for nothing. For now, we get a core story with missing pieces and unhappy populance, which is just sad. They could have done better, and they are capable of doing better. Hope they can turn things around. Sorry for my English, not my first language. 😓 (Byf senpai notice me)

@cataposs

Жыл бұрын

It definitely isn't a quick add. These sorts of things take several months to develop, and lightfall's been out for two weeks.

One huge thing I've heard no one to my knowledge talk about lore wise is that while Osiris cant/won't do anything because his lack of light. He was somehow able to manipulate strand. Whether it was short lived or permanent. It kind of shows too that if the light fell we'd still be able to use the darkness even without a ghost. I find that interesting as a topic that could be explored more.

@agriuscorvus2546

Жыл бұрын

its technically established in Beyond Light that non-guardians can wield darkness powers, in Eris and Elsie both being capable of doing so.

@agriuscorvus2546

Жыл бұрын

Though Eris is technically a guardian, she's in the same boat as Osiris.

I mean for me as someone new after finishing the campaign I had a lot of questions. I didn’t get frustrated by the confusion but instead wondered what would come next and where I would find the answers. I played the weekly’s and continue to play them because I’m anticipating an answer. Witch queen is still there so I play that too to see if there’s any hints that might give me an idea of what’s going on. I’m grinding pinnacles I’m hopes to play the raid in order to get more clues. The yearning for the answer has actually helped me get into destiny more. That’s just me tho and I can see why some people who aren’t the type to delve into things they don’t understand would be lost with this campaign. I’d say there’s two sides to it with new players as well. Not just the existing community.

I've really appreciated the cutscenes this expansion and the mobility of Strand. Some of the activities really (REALLY) hurt to play through - the seasonal playlist activities feel like they're tuned around someone who plays about as much as (or maybe more than) myself. Like - I have the time available to me to grind out gear and stuff, recently hit 1808 power so it's not *super* bad - but my brother and sister don't really have the available time and as such are around 1730/1750 - which when the required seasonal content is 1770 *really* hurts. It's not like I'm a good enough player to carry the group either 'cause I suck, I just have enough time to spam out gear. I feel like seasonal activities should have a lower barrier to entry - 1750/1740 would be fine and it's not such a big jump up from the 1600 you start the expansion at. If it's a season or 2 into the expansion then sure - but I feel 1770 is a smidge high. If it's a higher difficulty then y'know - fair game, you don't have to play at that difficulty - but this was the base level for the playlist activity. if I was a newlight I'd never want to touch those activities due to the sheer power spike.

It's crazy how much you hit the nail on the head regarding new or returning players. I was really considering returning, after the Free Weekend of The Witch Queen expansion, just before Lightfall released. But I held off, waiting for some reviews, as the cost for D2 expansions (and all the seasonal pass) is a pretty steep one. It saddens me, that I don't feel like returning to D2 and that all this still haven't convinced me. I wish I could get the feel for D2 back as I had in The Forsaken expansion. But thanks for all your videos Byf! Wonderfully crafted and well thought out arguments.

You are a reason why I love this game/community so much Byf! Thank you for the perspective lore master!

I mostly thought D2 sales were from the dame revolving door of players, not necessarily someone joining the train on the second to last expansion. I think if Bungie thought more people who had never played D2 were going to buy lightfall as a starting point then they would've shifted the narrative focus to be more understandable to new players. Not excusing their shoddy storycrafting but it makes more sense

Mr Byf, I have been watching your videos since destiny 1 and it has truly been a pleasure, because of the way you explain the campaign and of course the lore itself you have opened my eyes. I wanted to tell you that I completely agree with all that you have said within this video regarding the latest DLC Lightfall. I too was a bit disappointed as this was suppose to be the infinity war of destiny itself and god knows what will happen in the Final Shape expansion but my sentiments align exceedingly with your own on that the development team at Bungie can do so much more within a expansion's story. In my pinot of view, with how the general story is concerned, I think that there are some interesting developments, such as, a totally different human civilisation who have been some what taking it a whole lot easier than the Last city civilisation, another is how the Tormentors are beyond scary, again my opinion , but yeah there are times when they are easier to kill and times when they're just bullet sponges which again adds to the terror. all and all I believe that you are right as always in that Bungie needs to step up there game. Thanks again for being our incredible Lore Daddy, technically you should be knighted due to your commitment. With kind regards Antonino Megna

I think the biggest disappointment is they were doing so well. The seasons up until Lightfall were good, we were all excited for it. Then we get to Lightfall and it falls on its face.

I'd say a solid 7/10. Good subclass, good gameplay, neat environment. But the narrative holes, while I can overlook some, just were too egregious here.

@Axogloz

Жыл бұрын

For me it's more of a 6/10

@bloodmoonangel8925

Жыл бұрын

If Lightfall is a 7/10 then Crota's End is the best raid in Destiny

@Arctis326

Жыл бұрын

@@bloodmoonangel8925you’re on the wrong page mate

@crazytalk8120

Жыл бұрын

​@@bloodmoonangel8925 you are welcome to your opinion bud. Just voicing mine.

@cryw1092

Жыл бұрын

... What holes?

I like Angry Byf, he's a nice reminder that _everybody_ has their limits and it's ok to get right pissed-off once in a while.

Thank you for everything you do for the Destiny community Byf. You are, live, and positively represent us with class, passion, dignity & perfect articulation. Destiny isn't only our "team," but it is also OUR home. God bless you, Byf. Keep up the astounding work my friend.

Byf: Stop it! Seriously, Stop it! Me: Wow, even when he's mad he sounds very polite. *[10 SECONDS LATER]* Me: Oh.

@cn8229

Жыл бұрын

Honestly given the subject matter he was discussing "fuck off" is a remarkably measured response

for me, the most frustrating part is that the characters in the story seem to know what the Veil is, but simply don't tell us. and it's not like they choose not to, like it's some secret, they just never address it! it's crazy bad writing.

@theegregson

Жыл бұрын

no see but it's not just that, in the post campaign quest it is then made clear that they DON'T know what the veil is, i think all of this would've been fixed if they just made it clear from the beginning that no one knows, literally just have a cutscene where rohan says "we don't understand it's origins, we just use it to power neomuna, apart from that we understand nothing". if they would've done that i think everyone would've at least immediately gotten the idea that it's supposed to be a mystery across, rather then having it be some confusing factor in the story.

@cryw1092

Жыл бұрын

They do address that they don't know in the campaign, multiple times. People need to stop actively lying about the contents of the campaign; it's genuinely infuriating.

@Scripzure

Жыл бұрын

@@cryw1092 I played through the campaign at least 5 times, I never noticed any dialogue where they say they don't know what the Veil is.

@cryw1092

Жыл бұрын

@@Scripzure Did you not see the part where Osiris is talking to Saint-14? Keep in mind that they don't have to say "I don't know what the Veil is," verbatim in order for them to communicate that.

@taeomanzano3755

Жыл бұрын

The one thing that bugs me the most is part of the final lines from Rasputin. "[The veil] is linked to the Traveller." And then, two-thirds of the way through Desperate Measures we have our ghost saying something like "The Veil feels like the Traveller, but that doesn't make sense."

RE 14:05 - One thing that made discussion of the Veil particularly maddening was that Osiris and Nimbus both acted like they knew what the Veil was but never bothered to explain. If Osiris had explained that he only knew the name from his study of Rasputin’s records but didn’t know what it was, and if Nimbus had said he didn’t know yet either, then the story could have focused on our assumption that whatever the Witness wants to do must be bad enough for us to need to stop it. We could have gotten more explicit dialogue about the struggle to fight what we don’t yet understand-and the difficulties and dangers of doing so. (Heck, the Rohan portion could have been made more meaningful by suggesting that knowledge of the Veil is passed from senior Cloud Strider to junior Cloud Strider when the formal handoff occurs. So then Nimbus would have both a reason to be just as clueless as us *and* a reason to need to figure it out with our help.) But because we didn’t even get anything *that* clear, it created the impression that both Osiris and Nimbus *do* know what the Veil is *and* why the Witness needs to be stopped. And yet neither of them even bothered to give us the most basic of explanations.

When I first finished the campaign, I was questioning if I missed something in The Witch Queen.

I’m fine with criticism of the community. Or of the devs. Or of anyone really. But I don’t the tone of Byfe here. Feels like he’s talking down to everyone for much of this video. “There’s something called nuance!” Oh. You don’t say?! I’d love to see respectful dialog from all sides. Without the “holier than thou” attitude. Normally I love Byfe’s videos. And still appreciate this one.

I love your content. The love and the professionalism shows. It's clear everything you do comes from that. You have managed to combine both so as best as anyone can. Keep up the good work guardian.

Can't wait to hear the other stories you mentioned in the end of the video. This lore has been great!

Goes to show just how important it is to have a good ending for a story you're trying to tell. There are so many great things about Lightfall's earlier story beats both in-universe and from a player's perspective - the very first cutscene of the battle above earth where we finally got to see the Traveler and the Witness exchange blows. Discovering Neomuna for the first time and learning its history. Juxtaposing the natures of Guardians and Cloud Striders. Osiris coming to terms with his grief and then mentoring Nimbus through the same thing. Caiatl confronting her father and standing side by side with us in battle, having the nature of Light and Dark manifestations fully etc. all of these and so much more were amazing to watch and be a part of, but at the end of the day the complete lack of fulfilling answers around the veil, especially since it was so pivotal to the ending (and the ending was quite contrived if you ask me but then again thats not exactly an uncommon opinion) really failed to pull together all of these amazing pieces and make them something greater than the sum of their parts.

If I was to guess, it seems like the main campaign story was written by a B Team since it's almost certainly a bunch of filler. If the seasonal story is done by a different team, we might see a return to form like with the last few expansions. One can also hope the A Team is busy with Final Shape.

What a breath of fresh air, genuine nuance. Who would've thought? Anyway, like you pointed out, I do fall somewhere in the middle and since you asked, I'll give some of my thoughts. - The whole situation with the Veil, if Bungie did want to do the whole "big mystery" thing, needs to be acknowledged by the characters and especially our character in the campaign. I can forgive the Striders just being like "yeah, the Veil, obviously". And I can even (kind of) forgive Osiris for just going along with it because from his perspective he truly knows it's deeply important to the Witness, and if the Witness wants it that badly, keep it safe first, pick it apart later. But there is no reason our character shouldn't have asked even once what it was. Even if it was met with Osiris saying what I said above, "Witness wants it, that's all the reason we need to safeguard it, we'll figure it out later" and the Striders pulling an Exo Stranger/ "no time to explain", at least it'll feel like we didn't actually miss something important. It isn't the best solution, but it would've made a difference for sure. - I dont mind Strand being as incorporated into the story as it is. I wish it would have been tied into the first point, and I think while it still wouldn't be perfect, more people would be more okay with it. - I've seen people being really upset over Osiris this expansion, this one I just don't get it, but again, I think the first point would've smoothed this over a bit. - I wish Nimbus wasn't as... uncanny? I guess, is the best way to put it for their appearance in game. The personality I think works for the whole "80's action movie" aesthetic, but just something about their face specifically puts me off. I know it's not exactly a story critique, but it's also not just a Cloud Strider thing because Rohan was totally fine to me. But, you know, *shrug* - Speaking of Rohan, very much so a wasted character. He should've stuck around for this last year, then sacrificed himself going into Final Shape, or it shouldn't have been brought up that he only had about a year left at all. If he doesn't become the first Cloud Strider Guardian or something, "hero of the week" is an apt yet incredibly disappointing title for this character that couldve been so much more. - Bungie really needed to find a new beginning for the end cutscene, because it really is too obvious that the first and last cutscene were once the same cutscene cut in half. Why is Zavala, Ikora, Elsie and Mara standing on the bridge of the HELM right when the Witness attacks, spend at minimum hours there in the darkness just waiting, and then the blast shield just happens to rise up right when the Witness gets access to the Veil and carves up the Traveler? You can't convince me that we went to Neptune, had our whole adventure *and* effectively mastered Strand, and then killed Calus in, what, 20 minutes tops? Incredibly sloppy. - I'm actually more forgiving than most when it comes to Zavala and Ikora post-campaign, but I do still have issues with it. On the one hand, we were all ready for the Witness to role up and bring on the apocalypse, with the body count being pretty steep probably. Instead, it hung out in low orbit, did something to the Traveler, and then disappeared. To reiterate, I'm going against the grain here and actually kinda okay with this turn of events because I'm with Destiny for the long run, and I know this will eventually be addressed. Ghosts are understandably upset, of course, but last year we learned not to look to the Traveler as the end all be all, and the apocalypse effectively missed us. Being a little shocked but glad for our current continued survival mixed with getting down to business to uncover the mystery seems like a fairly reasonable response, albeit the animations are atrocious. All in all, the biggest problem is, of course, the mishandling surrounding the Veil. That singular thing not being done even slightly better has a magnifying effect for every other (in my opinion) largely minor problem in the story. Yes, I'm very confident it'll be addressed and I do have hope for the future of Destiny, this year and next, but I agree with Byf that fair, reasonable critique is needed right now.

@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong

Жыл бұрын

GAME. BAD.

@peeko_luxx2873

Жыл бұрын

Great takes. I agree with 100% what you said. I had many of those thoughts myself. While I have taken breaks between forsaken and now, I’ve always kept up with the story and will never not enjoy playing the game when I come back, every time. Gameplay is better than ever I’d wager. Enjoying running around Neomuna between weekly missions. Cheers

Didn't expect Byf to call out in the intro....PREACH! But yeah, always appreciate your critique and professionalism. Great video!

Thanks, Byf. I did my first day 1 raid but I’ve been here since Warmind, so I’ve seen Destiny at some lows. Seeing the community so divided is something that saddens me but I totally understand. I’m sad to see the immaturity with some, but otherwise I’m with you on what I liked and didn’t like about the campaign. The raid was fine, I had some horrible teams matched up with, and I beat it with Imagine a few days ago witch was magical. I’ve enjoyed destiny as a whole and your lore is what keeps me here. If it wasn’t for that great lore, I wouldn’t still be here. There’s better games for gunplay and PVE, but the world of destiny is what has solidified it. Bungie better take your advice.

Thanks so much for this nuanced take Byf. Even though I'm one of the people who enjoyed the story and how they're going further with it, I'm also able to see why some people are disappointed or feel let down by it. I actually enjoyed the mystery created and unfolding it step by step, mainly because my mindset into Lightfall and the rest of the "Light and Dark Saga" was that we're going deep into big questions and answers territory and the start of it going to make us ask more questions than find answers. That's why I kinda liked the main story because it gave me that "oh no, Calus and Witness are doing something big, we have to stop them first than figure out what all this is" panic mode. But all of this doesn't mean that I don't understand or refuse to acknowledge your points and criticism. If I had to speculate, these issues caused mainly by the fact that we're too deep into the story and it gets harder to build a new player friendly storytelling. This doesn't mean that it's impossible but it means there are so many places it can go wrong or not as planned. But I'm definitely hopeful about Bungie pulling things together and making sure we all get the ending we deserve for the story.

Entering Destiny 2 as a new player has been confusing for several years now. I came during Season of the Splicer and had no clue what was going on. There were so many different alien races and missions that it was hard to distinguish one storyline from another. It took me almost a full year to learn what we were doing, who we were fighting and why. Witch Queen didn’t really help much in this respect, as lore dense as it is. If it weren’t for my friends I wouldn’t have stayed on to this day. Now I read all the lore books and listen to your videos. You make a great point about nuance; sadly many opinions on the internet are reduced to “taking sides” and lack civility, respect or listening skills. This is a problem that extends beyond gaming.

I’m at minute 7:12 and we still haven’t started to actually talk about the damn game - preamble on preamble on preamble

Byf: "I make my living off of this video game. My channel provides entertainment by explaining the layers upon layers of Lore the game has and why that's fun!" Also Byf: "It ain't that deep." Love ya man. That made me chuckle! I needed a good laugh today. (Also, Nimbus saying the word "Thingamajig" when hes supposed to be revealing meaningful dialogue made me want to uninstall.)

@JINORU_

Жыл бұрын

If we doing it and not actually having a good time then its all a waste

@joshsmith8715

Жыл бұрын

It’s deep for him sure, but for the spectators that he’s talking to? Yeah it’s not deep.. they have no excuse to be shitstains

@NobleVI_343

Жыл бұрын

Nah, him calling Calus ugly in front of Caital in what should have been a somber moment made me hate the character more than anything. I wish we kept Rohan. He was dope.

Byf I think you perfectly nailed my stance on this. It really feels discouraging trying to appreciate Lightfall right now when it seems like everyone under the damn sun is railing on the "game bad" side of things. The narrative was definitely not as strong as it could have been. But Neomuna is just incredible. There's so much hidden story to unpack there. It's gorgeous and fun to explore. I love the neon vibes. It's absolutely a masterpiece of set design. I really REALLY wish the story had been better but overall I'm very satisfied with what we got and it makes me really sad to see people just completely ignore everything else because of the campaign falling flat. I know Bungie has it in them to pull this off, and I'm rooting for them as hard as I can. I'm just glad that you have the ability to call out the people harassing the devs and spreading all that hate, because at times it feels like as small as they are, they make so much noise that it becomes common sentiment. You do so much to preserve the integrity of the people who don't do that and it means more than you'll ever know, as someone who's been following you since Rise of Iron