The idea of speaking to god and only hearing a scream for help sounds absolutely terrifying

@MrRukrio1

10 ай бұрын

as somebody in a DnD campaign where the party is basically high fantasy guardians minus the Ghosts and we can actually speak to our Traveler (they're a big dragon of light), having to literally feel the screams of that dragon rattle and practically bring the party to their knees is 100% as terrifying as it sounds. i can only imagine what your Ghosts are going through just listening to Byf.

@bobertastic6541

10 ай бұрын

some analog horror series probably has that line

@arturobelano6243

10 ай бұрын

40k

@iamrazor9831

10 ай бұрын

Right??

@iamrazor9831

10 ай бұрын

Right??

Ghost has a voice line when leaving one of the lost sectors on Neomuna where he says "i can't feel the Traveller's presence anymore, but i'm still getting the Light from somewhere... deeper" just seems a little relevant

@DEADSKULLZ31

10 ай бұрын

There is also a dungeon where when leaving it, he says that he just feels sad a bunch.

Maybe it’s just me, but this feels very “Lovecraftian” in its representation. It’s pretty terrifying to think that all Ghosts seem to hear from the Traveler is screaming, a being who created you begging for your help, but you can’t reach them.

@DavidUtau

10 ай бұрын

It's literally duviri.

@AsterixmGame

10 ай бұрын

Its also interesting to me to think that while this is happening, your ghost is like “Well the traveler has been silent for so long I lost track” but also the traveler is screaming, so I think the ghost is not telling us purposefully so as not to worry our guardians.

I don't think Immaru is lying. Why you ask? Because the Traveler was the one who let Immaru escape at the end of the Witch Queen. Perhaps it has a few selective people it prefers to keep in touch with, like Savathun, Immaru, and Crow

@british35

10 ай бұрын

I can just imagine Traveler just has a DM list

@MysticalCabal

10 ай бұрын

I agree remember when our ghost first got the power of the darkness our ghost felt weak and afraid but and I remembered the scene when the ghost felt whole again. Now immaru transformed himself as a hive ghost the traveler did chose them after humans, the next of evolution. 2 immaru is and have the power of the darkness but our ghost power from light. It might hear traveler cause the witness using the power of darkness and immaru is a dark ghost but darkness doesn’t affect him but only our ghost u never know he has something that we don’t

@darev2335

10 ай бұрын

It seem like the Traveler speaks to who it needs to when it is pertinent.

@LeeoJohnsonTV

10 ай бұрын

​@@MysticalCabalthe Traveler chose the Hive BEFORE us but the Witness tricked Savathun and her two sisters into consuming the worms instead (because the Witness found the Traveler first and wanted it for themselves).

Who else thinks it’d be very fitting for the Speaker’s mask to become a seasonal artifact? If not for The Final Shape, perhaps at some point in the future?

So I’m pretty sure Immaru is being straight forward with us, the way he puts it sounds more like our ghosts are just trying to not worry us. Traveler is crying out for help would probably be a very haunting thing and our ghosts are trying to spare us from that. Same with the thing about other ghosts not sensing the traveler. Feels like our ghosts are just trying to look out for us while aimmaru just being upfront about things

@Dinnye01

10 ай бұрын

True. Immaru has no reason to lie... because we held his ba... I mean him in our hands. And he is being at a hands' reach.

@echoxulan2188

10 ай бұрын

Our ghost a bitch

@zbrinz720

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I did not really feel the “driving a wedge between us by lying” angle. Immaru is very arrogant and I dont think he is trying to deceive, but rather he is being be blunt and bragging about information that has been held from us

@johngancarcik5682

10 ай бұрын

​@zbrinz720 I didn't feel that angle either it's more of a blunt to the point hey this is important type thing

Immaru is not lying. In the final cutscene of the Lightfall campaign, you can hear what sounds like the Traveler screaming in pain right when the Witness draws the triangular portal on it. It’s laid over an excerpt from the Music of the Spheres track “The Path (Luna)” during the Witness’s monologue.

I don't think that the Traveler is literally screaming for help. I think the traveler is in anguish because of what is going on and then ghosts can sense it. Our ghost probably didn't bother to tell us that the Traveler is in trouble because we already know. Also I don't believe the traveler was capable of emotion until it was connected to the veil.

@squadass99

10 ай бұрын

Look up the dreams of Alpha Lupi, the traveller is 100% capable of emotion.

@impossibleegg3689

10 ай бұрын

Constellations describes the Speakers and their visions from the Traveler

@SelecaoOfMidas

10 ай бұрын

Same difference? 😅

@suruxstrawde8322

10 ай бұрын

@@squadass99 Don’t remember what you’re referring to specifically but I’d reference what clovis saw in a dream if I’m remembering correctly, the traveler speaking to him saying something about him already being too far off the path.

@squadass99

10 ай бұрын

@@suruxstrawde8322 That's a good example, but the Dreams of Alpha Lupi are believed to be the travellers thoughts from an assumed second hand account. Really go look them up, i'm surprised they aren't being talked about lol.

Hear the traveler scream oh my god that’s so dark it’s like you understand why the traveler fleas you know it really wanted to avoid pain and the witness cut it open and left essentially a gaping wound wow that’s actually gruesome

@simonwahlen7150

10 ай бұрын

It becomes even worse if you think that the pale heart zone is the mindscape of the Traveler. The witness is forcibly rearranging inside the travelers head turning it's dreams of places it has seen into nightmarish geometrical machinery. Something is inside the travelers head tearing it's mind appart from the inside to reduce it into a puppet that will be forced to destroy the universe.

@pelinalwhitestrake4196

9 ай бұрын

Dreams of Alpha Lupi "run run run RUN RUN"

He said he feels theres something wrong with the traveler and what he feels is like a scream for help

@jadenyuki2031

10 ай бұрын

Imaru said he is the 1st ghost, maybe he has a special connection with the traveler.

@swalke6861

10 ай бұрын

The scream for help is seeing our guardians hit a wall at terminal velocity and die and regret making guardians

@dropkick3024

10 ай бұрын

​​@jadenyuki2031 I think he means he's the first ghost to resurrected a hive because there already is a first guardian

@jadenyuki2031

10 ай бұрын

@@dropkick3024 Could be that or could be literaly him being the first ghost created.

@Cunch

10 ай бұрын

@@jadenyuki2031I think first ghost is like a rank amongst the hive. Like a Commandant

My Ghost apparently can’t hear anything, they probably have their mic unplugged and don’t know it

Another time I think the Traveler is speaking to us is during the New Light missions to unlock our subclasses. Whenever we press tab to look at the mission objective it's always speaking directly to us, saying things like *"You will burn My enemies to ash!"*

I'm thinking that Immaru is just able to recognize what the traveler is trying to say in a way that other ghosts can't, as he said, "I know death when I feel it, and this doesn't feel like death". Our ghost has referred to the traveler as being 'dead', but I think that they just don't know how to describe or recognize what the traveler is telling it. Since we know that the hive have a much more complicated relationship with death than humans, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that a hive ghost would be able to differentiate death and not quite death more clearly than a 'normal' ghost.

@justinchamberlin4195

10 ай бұрын

I had similar thoughts...Immaru can pick up on the Traveler's fear and torment because those are things he is extremely well-versed in as a member of the Lucent Hive.

@ShawndaPrawn

10 ай бұрын

So the Traveller is only mostly dead. It’s still slightly alive, so we can’t go through its clothes and look for loose glimmer.

“One more word out of you Immaru and I’ll rip your eye out of your socket”-generaljoe3447

There is something in the constellations book that seems to point to the traveller speaking to multiple people Once the speaker builds his mask, his ‘amplifier’, the traveller says “I have cried out unheard for so long that my voice is raw”, suggesting it’s just kind of been shouting until something hears it again Perhaps our ghosts hearing the traveller is a recent development? Red war era, when the traveller woke up again. Perhaps the time our Ghost references is the time of the ghosts’ creation, the travellers final moments before it fell into dormancy, and the speaker was the first thing in the dark age to finally connect to it again. Then when we get the light back in the red war, our ghost can actually sense it fully again. Though it could just as easily be talking about 20 minutes ago when we fell off a building

Personally I think the reason that Immaru is hearing the traveler scream for help is the traveler knows Savathun can help it. While I do think all the ghosts can hear the traveler controls when and how strong the connection is. Like the dream about going to the edz shard of the traveler. I think it was given to us through our ghost and it's why they know the dream too.

You know I just wanna say for something to be called the "final shape" and for the witness to want to create a universe without chaos......it sure looks chaotic in the pale heart

@radarhead82

10 ай бұрын

A jigsaw puzzle is pretty chaotic while you're still putting the pieces into place

@sixberry2468

10 ай бұрын

It's somewhat ironic. For something that claims to desire a universe without chaos, it in itself inevitably serves as an agent of chaos itself. A universe without chaos won't change, and thus, won't exist.

“I have no mouth and I must scream” - The Traveler, apparently

He didn't say it's screamig. He said he can feel it and to imagine "if your god was constantly screaming in pain". It was only an analogy.

I don't think ghosts can literally 'hear' the traveler but more like feel it, I'm sure Immaru is just making an analogy in that particular dialogue, an approximation easier for humans to understand. It is also very possible that Immaru was just bluffing or gaslighting us; given his admiration for Savathun he might be trying to come up with little deceptions of his own.

A few things I would like to know over time: - as Immaru spoke, why didn’t our ghost speak up for itself? - why was the witness able to take hold of our ghost at points in lightfall and control/speak through it? - even back in early D2, when Rasputin’s influence could disrupt our ghost, was that truly Rasputin or Rasputin revealing the witness’ hold on our ghost all along?

@krazydragonyt5811

10 ай бұрын

- Our Ghost probably knew that Immaru was right, and didn't see a point in arguing - The Witness has always been able to do this, dating as far back as the final mission in Shadowkeep. I don't know exactly why, but I'd imagine it has something to do with The Witness being the literal embodiment of the Darkness itself, whereas a Ghost is a more fragile, less complex (at least when compared to The Witness) being of the Light - This one I unfortunately cannot answer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@frostyphenix

10 ай бұрын

@@krazydragonyt5811 number 2, I could also agree that maybe they don’t have much power to resist. Antagonists always drop the ball in not taking out their opponents early when they have an advantage, possibly due to inflated egos or tunnel vision. If I have that much influence over my opponent’s weakest point, I’m taking it out…and EARLY lol

@tilehopper

10 ай бұрын

- Real life reason: Nolan North is expensive to retain every season. Lore reason: Our ghost has a whole cocktail of mental health issue just by being with us (see Thin Line lore tab). Now add the Traveler suffering, he is holding back A LOT since Forsaken and we owe our little light a hug and apology - The Witness has always been able to do that, and its hyphotesized that Ghost is being of matter of light and dark - Well that's an answer we don't have right now.

@frostyphenix

10 ай бұрын

@@tilehopper LOL to number 1. A hug is due indeed. And number 2, I’m leaning that way now as well, as far as it being an entity of balance.

@ashekeillachaosdancer5589

10 ай бұрын

there are references/inferences that the Traveller & the Veil were once connected. as in one Being, both Light & Dark, in Balance. that implies that Ghosts would also have a dual nature, or at the least the potential for both. if so, the Witness has access to ghosts, thru the Darkness. yes, he has to force it, but the option exists. my big questions would be, how do we connect the Traveler & the Veil again? and do we really want to do that? 🤔

As soon as I heard that voice line I was like…..we’ll shit 😅 Traveler is usually so silent but too know that it’s screaming in pure agony and the ghosts can’t do shit too stop really urkes me, makes me sad we can’t help them any faster in getting through that portal.

@jackgammon1490

10 ай бұрын

Yes, we will shit

I think we can trust Immaru *slightly* more than we normally could when it comes to the Traveller, since even with him being our enemy, more or less, he isn't anything without the Traveler and the Light, just like us. Im not saying he is trustworthy, but my pinch of salt will be a bit smaller when he talks of the Traveler.

@british35

10 ай бұрын

We did nearly end him where he stood, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he was being straight with us out of fear

@Noblesix84

10 ай бұрын

@@british35 I'm sure he knows that if we didn't need Savathun, he'd already be dead.

@seabasswallyworld

10 ай бұрын

Immaru also has a vested interest in stopping the Witness. He mentions in another end-of-mission statement that the Witness is trying to end the "game" of the universe early, by turning it off before it's over. The Hive doesn't want that either, as their Sword Logic basically says the winner at the end of the universe is who or whatever beats everything else conventionally, rather than flipping up the board like the Witness is trying to do.

@british35

10 ай бұрын

@@seabasswallyworld In short, the last true shape differs depending on who you ask?

@seabasswallyworld

10 ай бұрын

@@british35 Yep. The Witness told lies upon lies to his disciples to make them believe that the Final Shape was what they wanted to see most in the universe, so each of its disciples see the Final Shape differently.

It's great to see how byf seems genuinely excited about this season

I’ve been actively waiting for you to cover the speakers my guy, I’m so excited to hear your takes

I think this is relevant, i the Vow ghost shell (i think its called the fundamental shell), Rhulk managed to capture a live hive ghost and was asking it questions until an unknown voice took over which Rhulk referred to as “subjugator!?” Before the ghost exploded. IIRC Rhulk has only said “subjugator” when referring to the traveler so it might be that the traveler and ghosts have a stronger connection when the traveler wants

We’ve been feasting wit these byf vids this week

During the red war cutscene bit, I couldn't help but remember the "twinkle twinkle" (possibly cut, possibly not real) dialogue.

Well that was a horrific to learn.

The lucent hive are by far the coolest thing bungie has added in the game.

Byf’s lore videos are so well put together. It’s like the lore is coming inside me.

@SirCam27

10 ай бұрын

Hold on bro

@Malkoburn

10 ай бұрын

🤨

@placeholdernameamistupid

10 ай бұрын

🤨

@Frodo_swagginsX

10 ай бұрын

You mean lore daddy is coming inside of you

❤ your lore love reading it. Keep it up

Love all the content. Remember to take time for yourself we're not going anywhere.

God Destiny has one of the best stories and lore to back it up. Back in D1 the atmosphere was there to match aswell.

Man bungie really needs to have our ghost have more dialogue other than big dlc releases. Like cmon he’s THE Guardian’s ghost. Yea I know VA scheduling and stuff but imagine the dialogue between our ghost and immaru. What a missed opportunity

Hey Byf, can you do a video going over the foreshadowing events for the final shape (such as the Nine foreshadowing the drifter’s sacrifice and Rhulk’s prophecy wall)?

The Witness' logic is: "How can I get rid of hunger? Let's eradicate everyone so there is no one to get hungry"

I love Destiny lore. Since finding your channel you have upped my way of learning lore. Thanks BYF. Do you ever play destiby with any of your subscribers or do you stick to your own team or clan?

I believe that can actually "hear" words from the traveler. I base that off the fact that the traveler yelled at rhulk through ghost in the throne world

I'm glad you brought this up. Because that dialogue from imaru was haunting me. Quite literally... As if when we connected the veil and the traveler that it amplified the consciousness connecting the traveler and the ghosts. And maybe even more then that... It's quite daunting for sure...

I wonder if our ghost telling us that the traveler is quiet might have something to do with the same reason our ghost wigged out at the end of lightfall.

pretty wild sentiment, excited to hear!

I can concur that we've had a similar situation with our one of our speakers.

All of this talk of the ghosts' connection to the Traveler makes me think of the lore tab of the ghost shell from Vow of the Disciple where some unknown(?) voice speaks to Rhulk through the ghost before destroying it (at least thats what I remember, its been a while). That's the only time I can think of where the assumedly the Traveler spoke not through quotes.

the final shape is a dollar sign.

Yes, please cover Constellations!

14:12 Oryx: "Am I a joke to you?"

I’m wondering if TFS will finally put a voice or a face to the Traveler. Perhaps the woman from that original Mars storyboard years ago will be brought back?

See, there’s plenty of speculation on how the Traveler communicates with us or Ghosts or whatever, but then there’s also that one piece of lore where it supposedly just talks to Rhulk through a Ghost to say “you can’t have this” and it self destructs.

Show of hands, whose reaction when they first heard this was: "Good! Let the giant yoga ball squirm a little."

It’s 2 A.M I should be sleeping, but lore takes precedence.

I believe there was a moment in the Curse of Osiris campaign where Ghost mentions how he saw a miniature Traveler when Sagira took over his shell.

I would just like to point this out, if Imaru was lying about being able to hear the traveler screaming, and about our Ghost not telling us about it, then why didn't our ghost say anything to refute it?

How Immaru talked about hearing the traveler screaming is great cosmic horror

That's a truly horrifying thought really, I wonder how long it's been in pain? Since D1?

Another quote from the the Altar Mission that has left me curious has been Immaru describing the Hive perspective of the Final Shape compared to the Witness

Is... Is no one noticing Immaru's tone shift? I think this explains why he has started to stray from Savathun's plan. His "hard sell". Why he is so worried "what the hell Eris is thinking?" He's scared. And now we know why. He's trying to find comfort in both our strength, and by asserting his superiority over it by claiming all of this is within his guardian's plans. But we only seek comfort when we doubt. That's why us grabbing him shook him so much. He was reaching for control and we took it away. I think this is why he said our ghost was "sparing us the details". Not that they were hiding something from us. He actually SOFTENED the potential betrayal of our ghost. He... he almost seemed to care more that we KNOW what he's feeling from the traveller. Also, he can probably still sense it, and some other ghosts can, because he can directly influence help getting to the traveler. Same as our ghost.

@johngancarcik5682

8 ай бұрын

Good point and he's acting tough is basically him trying not to lose his wits cause of everything that's going on and if things go south it's curtains for him too

That “it’s just speaking out loud to who ever can hear it” idea brings to mind the idea the Traveler is just constantly muttering to itself while it works and I find that funny.

"I have no mouth and I must scream."

I believe that in one part of the New Light quest we meditate in spots of light and we are talked to by the Traveler.

Would make since that immaru is a special case for ghosts on communion with the traveler, with him being tied with savathun and the traveler seemingly wanting to be pulled into savathuns throne world in witch queen but its a streatch most likely

were closer to darkness now that we have embraces stasis and strand, our ghost has been saying they feel distant from the traveler for a while now

Byf, you should read the lore tab of the seasonal quest ship. very interesting information about the seasonal activity we are doing.

It would be cool to see some form of the speakers inside the traveler

I wonder how different things would be if The Speaker was still alive

Looking back at the prophecy wall in the Vow of the Disciple raid, we know the Witness is "drinking the Light," whatever that means. But if you think of someone being bit by a vampire, it makes sense. There's perhaps a bit of shock and surprise wile also terror that a vital, vulnerable body part is being directly attacked. While being bitten, the human isn't dead yet but it may just be a matter of time.

A lot of people, Byt included, seems to have forgotten the fact that Brother Vance has exuded a lot of similarities to the Speaker’s way of understanding the Traveler. Back in season of Arrivals we got a few things from his POV which revealed that he can supposedly hear a voice or ‘feeling’ implied to be The Traveler. Same as with The Speaker. Blindness and having faith in the big space ball is key. And those with blind faith are most receptive to it’s pleas.

listening to this, makes me feel anxious for the traveler. Don't know what to feel abut "it" not quite sure if we have been played in all of this but but thinking of it having pain and needing us to free "it" makes me feel the need to rush to its help!!! damn! February is still way far from today.

Not gonna lie, the witness(a mortal creature) being able to make a god scream in terror is kinda cool.

Witness hanging out in the Traveler Blasting Carameldansen

Traveler: You already I know I’m obsessed with it. *burbs* HEEEEEEEEEELP HELP MEEEE HEEEEEEEELLLP”

I remember the disciple torturing a ghost and (potentially) hearing the traveller.

What if there's a time loop and the shard of the traveler is our Gaurdian getting their memories back along with the light

i feel like another relevant piece of dialogue is immaru's admission that he always felt he never fit in with humanity, or other ghosts for that matter. as always this could be immaru lying to garner sympathy, or it could be a hint to him having a deeper relationship with the traveler than other ghosts. after all, he was the first ever lucent hive ghost. either the traveler picked immaru especially for this role which gave him some closer insight to its disposition, or he was made specifically for savathun since the beginning, and the traveler has been keeping him close incase the chance to raise her ever arose. immaru's situation is such an interesting one, and im very glad this season is expanding on him as more than just a few patrol voicelines.

"MICHAEEELL, MICHAEEEEEEEEEELL, DON'T LEAVE ME HERE, MICHAEEEEEEEEEEEEEL, HELP MEEEE"- the traveler probably.

Immaru has no reason to lie at all hes pretty blunt and drill Sargeant like

I want Immaru’s shell for my Ghost. Looks so dope

My theory is that the traveler is calling out but the ghost take that “feeling” as death as they are unaware what it is, however due to immaru being around the hive and therefore is more familiar with death due to the nature of the hive he can correctly identify what the traveler is emanating not death but terror and a cry for help

You ever wonder if the ghosts have been hiding things from us? They have every ability to do so.

It’s in big trouble, we need to get in their portal asap

Immarus built different

Byf I need your help with a lore question. If fundament is a gass giant, the how does it have oceans

14:14 it takes a six man fireteam of the sweatiest guardians who only want one thing.. a gun. 😂

Byf it up😊

It might just be Immature since, as someone mentioned, he was saved at the end of WQ. I think it's possible that it could extend to hive ghosts, since they are attached to beings from a race with a connection to the Darkness. The Light & Dark might have some overlap on them & allow them to hear the Traveler.

I mean yeah, I'd be screaming too if someone strapped the vessel of universal consciousness to me and started messing around in my chest.

Iirc, the Speaker was told by the Traveler to go and find Saint-14 early on. Not like a specific 'go here, get that specific dude' but a wordless impression that there's a powerful Guardian to be resurrected in the area Saint-14 was. So that's an example of the Traveler at least communicating in a pretty direct way.

My theory about the traveler is that it’s FIRST creation was the witness (the civilization) and continued to lavish them with gifts and until they wanted purpose and forced the traveler to flee. The traveler has been creating civilization after civilization which could combat the witness. Which is why it left each civilization as they couldn’t progress far enough to reach the same level as the witness. Though there’s probably lots of evidence completely debunking this I think it’d be cool. I also think that all these different species across the universe are the same species as the witness but evolved under different circumstances because I think its interesting that the witness’ civilization has VERY similar biology to ours in terms of anatomy.

Back during the Traveler Healed live event, I remember our Ghost saying that the Traveler "feels like a giant ghost"

What people also forget is that in the unveiling lore book, the witness actually tells us what the final shape is supposed to be and it's based of the game of life. While the unveiling may or may not be true, I think that is actually what they desire. And absolute perfect Moment forever frozen in time and space

Maybe there's something about the kind of bond that hive ghosts have with the light. Maybe they hear the Traveler differently than our ghosts, since they are paired with a different species.

I’d like to think that certain ghosts have a deeper connection with the traveler than others. I’d also like to think that the traveler also has a select few “champions”, so to speak, that it connects with more often. Immaru might be one of these ghosts, given how he was the first ghost of a Hive, and the ghost of a former Hive god. Crow and our guardian could also be individuals who are deeply connected to the traveler, given how in the Hawkmoon quest we were guided by a hawk made of light, and Crow was granted visions by the traveler. The last one I can think of is the former Speaker of the last city, who was supposed to speak on behalf of the traveler, possibly having a close connection with it. Some ghosts might only be able to sense the Traveler’s presence, while others might have a much deeper connection. So I don’t think Immaru is lying when he says our ghost is being quiet, he could simply be talking about his connection, not knowing that our ghost has the same connection with the traveler he does. He might be saying that because the Guardian is extremely powerful in lore, that he assumed that our ghost had a similar connection to Immaru.

I still believe that Crow will end up as either Hunter Vanguard or Speaker Nova.

You know, this makes me wonder: Why did the Speaker have to die? Was it to further point out things in Destiny are changing (uncharted territory), or was it something else?

something that i’ve been wondering is if we will see the speaker inside the traveler

i recieved a comment from ghost after completing a lost sector on neomuna about how the ghost could sense the travelers power when resurrecting me but didnt feel its comforting precence, i wonder if that adds anything new at all.

Is it just me or has the pale heart referenced In D1? And if so where am I thinking of cause when I hear pale heart I think of the mission with the three miniature statues.

Wen the traveler spoke to Rhulk

i do hope they bring up the speaker again. perhaps someone else will take up his mask to listen for the traveller?

Do you remember the ghost saying 'i feel sick, I think we shouldn't be here', do you think that the traveler got to know about the witness plan and our ghost sensed it by traveler feelings?

@zerefdragneel2726

10 ай бұрын

In the lightfall campaign btw