HOLY COW what a discovery 🫨🫨🫨🫨

DR., can you start a registrar of breeders who have submitted sheds of known desert ghosts? It would be a huge benefit to all those in the ball python community, specially new people just getting into the hobby.

@raregeneticsinc

8 ай бұрын

Good suggestion, we will look into what it works take to do that. I believe CLTCH has a way to show if an animal was tested for DG, so that could be one way to track that. I’m not sure if Morph Market will have something similar, we shall see!

Love this!! Thank you all for your hard work!!!

Amazing! So cool.

Genetics is so fascinating, I love it! Great job with this.

Super cool! Thanks for the update.

Very interesting! Looking forward to finding out the Enhancer variant to this equation! Wow..

Wow! What a breakthrough and sounds like still some further work ahead. Thanks for all your hard work in advancing our understanding !!

Fascinating!!!!

Amazing effort to try understgand exactly what we are looking at. Keep up the work! Bravo :)

Amazing! Fantastic explanation 👏

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

🙏🙏

Wow the implications for my dg projects are spinning my head! Thank you very much sir for furthering the science- love this stuff-

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

You bet!!!

Well that will change the DG game for sure. Awesome stuff.

Great video

you're the best ben! keep it up guys and girls

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words, and we will for sure keep at it!!! 🙏🙌

Such cool information! Great job guys

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Brian!!!

Very interesting! This is sure to shake things up a bit. Lots of "DG" sheds heading your way in near future. Great work on this - super cool.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words, and we are ready for more sheds coming in!!!

This is so cool! I'm really glad that I saved the last shed from my Pastel Chocolate Desert Ghost Hypo because now I will definitely be sending it in to see what genotypes it has! My Super OD Ivory het DG and my Super Specter dbl het DG Cryptic are in shed now too, so I hope y'all are looking forward to getting quite a few sheds soon!

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Awesome! We look forward to helping you figure out what you’ve got!!!

Fascinating info regarding DG and a fantastic explanation of codom vs incomplete dominant. Great stuff!!!

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Scott!!!

@viperbear

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill Quick question, if I had a male that was homo on both the DGa and DGb genes, wouldn't that male produce all visual baby DG's that are het on both the DGa and DGb? This double homo male would be sort of a Super DG and should throw lots of DG visual babies even if bred to normals? Am I missing something?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

@@viperbear this is a very good question given what we presented in the video! With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than what is in the video because we decided to not try and get too deep in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

Wow that is amazing findings I am just getting started working with the DG and I don't know or understand really how genetics works I get it a little but not when it comes to that you just explained

❤❤❤❤❤

So will you always produce visual DGs from sibling hets made from a visual parent?

So I guess needless to say, the most valuable DG pairings would be both parents being Homozygous for the A and B location, guaranteeing all babies will also be homozygous for A:B..? And the least valuable visual DG would be hetA/hetB babies that are expressing the DG phenotype. It'll be interesting to see where this all leads to when selling/listing DGs.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

You got it!!! The rest of my DG project animals will be on this next run, 🤞🤞for as much HOM DGa and DGb as I can get! And it truly will be a lot of fun to see people posting pics of visual DGs from the same clutch with similar other morphs but different DGa and DGb genetics. We should be able to learn a lot from that and maybe be able to produce more yellows or Axanthic looking DGs, or just increase the intensity of DG in each animal! I’m very excited to see how it all plays out!!!

Extremely interesting! I wonder how Enhancer fits into this equation.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We see the identical changes at DGa and DGb in enhancers, but it is still possible that enhancers may have a higher percentage of the third gene that we don’t have a location for yet. But time will tell, we are for sure still learning and sequencing more enhancers will hopefully give us more of the picture. But for now we know DGa and DGb have by far the most influence in making visual DGs, so we are very happy to have that to help our customers while we continue to learn more!

Interesting take on the Desert Ghost Morph. I have noticed a lot of variability in my Desert Ghosts, but I have never bred DG to DG and not hatched DG. I have had terrible luck with some double recessive projects which makes me wonder. I have also had animals that appeared to be DG as offspring grow up and no longer look to be DG. Still on the fence, but not as skeptical as I was at first hearing about this from other breeders. I will take this info into consideration and reevaluate some of my pairings over the years. Also, there is a bit of a conflict of interest here in that this info should result in more sales. Not insinuating anything, but it should be noted.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your info, it is greatly appreciated! I don’t know if you remember, but I talked to you about me developing this technology at a couple different shows a few years back, now we are finally getting enough tests available to really be able to help many breeders! And there will be more to come!

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

And we have had several breeders tell us now that they have had hatchlings that looked obvious DG, but months later clearly did not. I would love to sequence some of these if you or anyone you know still has them around!

@OzzyBoids

Жыл бұрын

Dr. Morel hello. Yes, exciting stuff. I’m happy that this work is finally being done. I’d like to hear more about the instances where a breeder bred DG to DG and got normals. Where these experienced or novice breeders. Where these actual visual DG or hets that were mistakenly identified as DG? For instance gene B hets may appear as low expression DG when they’re actually hets. If guys who have been breeding DG from its inception have never bred DG to DG and got normals I can’t help but be skeptical. I have seen non DG labeled as DG on Morph Market often. Will definitely be interested in hearing more.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Those are great questions! This has certainly been the exception, and rare exception, and not the rule. I only know of a couple instances that may be like this, and you could certainly be right, they could be mistaken identity. That being said, it is not surprising this would only rarely occur. Breeders will naturally select and hold back the best looking individuals which are likely the ones that are homozygous at either or both locations. And one of these genes that affects DG may very well be a common mutation. But when you add more genes in to make new multi gene combinations, or recessive genes, then you would be more likely to come across instances where het x het doesn’t give you the visuals that you would expect. We are about to record a follow up episode, I’ll talk about this in that video as well!

Wow!!!

Awesome work! This should eliminate all those breeders claiming they have desrt ghost and selling them for a premium. No one...no one should buy a DG/het DG unless they have proof it's DG A or DG B. I believe that those breeders currently offering DG hets should be required tp remove that claim until everyone of their animals has been tested. And NO, because your het proves to be DG A or DG B still does not mean you should be asking $1,200 for a het. We can use these tests to call out and weed out the honorable breeders from the thieves and con breeders. How many breedrers are going to steal peoples money by not offering to test for DG before selling an animal...let's watch the market and see who needs to be called out.

@raregeneticsinc

8 ай бұрын

Yes, and we are learning more about the DG Genetics, and our DG test will be even better here very soon!!!

@DonKeller_dkexotics

8 ай бұрын

That’s a hard one to do. What you’re suggesting would require all breeders to participate. That’s just not going to happen. From my experience. Buying from trusted sources is our best defense against dishonest people.

fasinating. I'm so pleased that someone went to the effort to figure this out. huge advancement for the hobby. So hyperthetically, would an animal that is double homozygous for GDa and DGb produce all visual DG animale even if bred to a normal? as all off spring will be double het DGa and DGb?😀😀

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

this is a very good question given what we presented in the video! With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than what is in the video because we decided to not try and get too deep in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

Do you know how MorphMarket will require DG classification going forward?

Awesome discovery! Question.. there's a lot of talk about parthenogenetic clutches. Could you develop a test to see if a clutch truly is partho? Also, can you explain why partho clutches have such a low success rate?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We actually cover this topic of parthenogenesis in detail in this episode! m.kzread.info/dash/bejne/YpuLlMiie93Xp6g.html

That’s incredible. Has a redstripe test ever been considered? It’s so hard to id in certain combos

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We are working on it now!

That's crazy! Wonder if it's the same way with axanthic since there are so many lines

@DonKeller_dkexotics

8 ай бұрын

It’s not. The different Axanthic morphs are not compatible. Ben is sequencing them, and I’m sure he’s found it less difficult to see the spikes one the different chromosomes per morph. For example. VPI is on an entirely different chromosome, than TSK, Black, GCR, or MJ. They are entirely different morphs.

Well that's trippy

Does this multiple genes for dg possibly account for some dg animals producing a higher number of paradoxing, animal showing sections of visual but mostly non visual.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t guess so, but time will tell!

I have several snakes rhat hatched looking DG, but lost it. They came from a pairing that only had DG on one side

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing this information. We are hearing that from several breeders. We will learn more as we sequence more samples!!!

So if you have snake 1 that is visual DG and it has DGaHOM and DGbHOM and pair it to a normal you should have all offspring be DGaHET DGbHET which would mean all offspring would be visual DG? Or am I missing something?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

this is a very good question given what we presented in the video! With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than what is in the video because we decided to not try and get too deep in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

So if i send a shed in for my visual dg youd be able to tell me if its het a and b visual a het b or visual a and visual b? Also could a homozygous a and homozygous b pair to a normal and possibly create a vosual het a and b?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

The possible results for a good shed test for DG will be the following: 1) DGa HOM, DGb HOM 2) DGa HOM, DGb HET 3) DGa HET, DGb HOM 4) DGa HOM, DGb no 5) DGa no, DGb HOM 6) DGa HET, DGb no 7) DGa no, DGb HET 8) DGa no, DGb no I think I got them all! And keep in mind that a genotype of DGa HET, DGb HET is most likely to NOT be visual, but sometimes it can be a visual and that is why we believe that at least one other gene must be involved in making an animal a visual DG.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We have not yet seen a visual DG produced from a visual DG to a normal because most DGa HET and DGb HET individuals are NOT visual DG. We are thinking that for a HET HET individual to look visual DG it may have to be homozygous at the third location…but we don’t know that for sure. We will continue to study this and will know more as we run more and more samples!

Hi Doc. Thank you so much for your work. You are changing the game in our hobby and community. I have a simple question. In regards to intensity levels of DG, as well as visual expression, would it be safe to assume that a Homo A Homo B and Potentially C would show exaggerated expressions and intensity? Much like Ozzy found with HI Orange Dream?

@raregeneticsinc

7 ай бұрын

That certainly could be! We haven’t necessarily seen that yet, but that is a big part of the reason we did the free DG test project. Hopefully from that we will learn whether that is the case or not!

Will there be tests available for Sunset and Monsoon?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Yes! And very soon for Sunset we think, but each morph is its own journey to map. We will for sure keep you all updated on here as we make progress!!!

So many questions! Does a&b change generationally?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, I’m not sure I understand your question, can you give me a little more detail about what you are asking?

Holy crap. This is freaking mind blowing. So if you have an animal that is het for DGa and het for DGb, you would have the visual phenotype of a DG but it isn’t guaranteed that every one of the offspring is going to be a het? Could a visual DG (DGa het and DGb het) animal create a visual when being paired to a normal or could a homozygous for both DGa and DGb make all visuals if paired to a normal?😢

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Very good questions!!! Because there are multiple genes in different locations in the genome at play here, things can get complicated! So, this genotype: DGa: HET, DGb: HET can visually be a DG, or not. That is why we know at least one other gene most also be at play. But, I would say, more HET HET offspring are called non-visual by breeders than visual. So most HET HET animals breeders have called HET DG. But, at least in some cases, with the third or other genes in play, HET HET can be visual DG.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

HYPOTHETICALLY, it could be that for a HET HET animal to look visual DG they may also have to be HOM at the third gene. That is a possibility, but not something we know yet because we don’t have a location for the third mutation.

@bluetinc

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@bhmorrill To add to Leviathan Snakes question, wouldn’t option #4 shown in the video ( HOM HOM) would be able to produce Visual offspring when paired with a mate with no DG genes at all? (Totally missed the last line of the original question, consider this a highlight of a crazy twist to how we normally think about all this!)

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

The part we didn’t get into in the video, because it can get very complicated very fast, is that DGa HET and DGb HET (which is what you would produce in your breeding above) can be visual DG, BUT most of the time they are not. So, it is likely that the third gene is needed, maybe homozygous, in order for a HET HET animal to be visual DG. But we don’t know that for sure yet. We are learning about that third mutation as well and will even better understand the story once we know it’s location and can test for it as well.

@NixonReptiles

Жыл бұрын

My thought is it almost sounds like what would happen with allelic genetics like say candy x albino males Candino. Then you’re taking say a Candino x candy then it’s sometimes tough to see which are actual candies. Likewise Candino x other stuff gives both het candy and het albino.

Thanks for sharing! Questions. I believe the reason DG is/was referred to as a recessive is because it has historically behaved that way. I've produced lots of DGs and have never had any result that wasn't consistent with standard recessive results. Can you point to any breeders that have had a DGa:Het DGb:Het and have produced DGs in the offspring? Whoever has the DGa:Hom and DGb:Hom in the testing sample should produce 100% DG offspring in their pairings. Can you reach out to them and see if that's the case? Also, what about DGa:Hom and no DGb or vice versa? Do those animals appear DG?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

For your first questions, this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than what we presented in the video because we decided to not try and get too deep in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!! For your last questions, DGa:HOM and DGb:no, or DGa:no and DGb:HOM are not visual and were characterized by the breeders as being "HET for DG."

@nevohraalnavnoj

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill Thanks so much for all the work and details! Keep us all updated as you learn more.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

@@nevohraalnavnoj Will do for sure!!!

If we send in sheds now for DGa and DGb testing are we going to have to re-send them again once DGc is discovered?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Most likely yes, but remember that it seems DGa and DGb have by far the most influence on whether an animal will be a visual DG or not. So a test for DGc will be cool in an academic sense, but will not be nearly as useful as the test we have now for DGa and DGb. And that will become even more the case as breeders select for HOM in both DGa and DGb, then DGc doesn’t matter at all because animals HOM for DGa and DGb seem to always be visual and DGc doesn’t matter!

@FallenAngelsReptiles

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill thanks for the explanation, that makes sense!

@holdbackrackpodcast

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill So based on the genotypes and pictures posted last night by Justin some of his homo homo animals look like high grade hets. It seems like C might be more important than it at first seems.

This could very much so explain my YB Het DG X Pastel Mojave Het DG not hitting any visuals. Granted I have had bad odds lately but out of 7 babies no visual this could be my reason why... I wonder if Pinstripe is in a similar situation with "Super" pins and such, I've got a pin girl that I think is a super, every single baby she has had is a pin but so little info on super pins, and you'd think there would be alot more of them out there if it was a think with such a used gene.

@franwi1722

Жыл бұрын

How many eggs have you got from that dg pairing/pairings without a visual? And did you produce the het from a visual/can you confirm it came from a visual?

@franwi1722

Жыл бұрын

With the super pin it's likely she is super (depending on how many eggs she's produced at 100% pass rate. Super pin is subtly different that base, only tell I've seen for it is they tend to be more reduced pattern wise.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

This could certainly be the reason! I’d love to see their DGa and DGb sequences and see if that is indeed the issue! Then you would know what to pair them to instead so that you can get visuals from them!

If it's two different genes on two different chromosomes, that should mean that a visual DG parent should be able to produce visual offspring in 25% of offspring right? That would end up possibly accidentally labelling the other parent as het DG even if they're not? Or is there something complicating it that I missed? (I'm rewatching the video now)

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than what we presented in the video because we decided to not try and get too deep in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

Would the make up of the genetics affect the phenotype? There is quite a lot of variation in DGs, with adults ranging from yellow to bone white.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Very perceptive! And for sure something we are going to pay attention to now!!! I’m sure we will learn some cool stuff in that color spectrum as well!

@KoriTV

Жыл бұрын

This was something I was also wondering. Some are very deep colors while others are very pale/tan colored

@SplicedSerpents

Жыл бұрын

​@@bhmorrill just looking back at past clutches. My female DG has produced 2 clutches with non-het males. The first was 5 eggs with one that looks like a visual DG and the second was 4 eggs, with one that looks like a visual.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

I’d love to sequence these if you still have them! And see pics!!! If you don’t want to share publicly, feel free to email them to me, dendroaspis03@gmail.com

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

And sequence the male as well! Then we could know the whole picture!

If the main two are DGa and DGb, and you must have at LEAST a het in both to be visual, then what prevents a Visual DG x Normal from producing 25% visual (Het-DGa/Het-DGb)? I don't believe we have seen this to be the case. Does it have something to do with the third gene you mentioned?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Yes it does! With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than what we presented in the video because we decided to not try and get too deep in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

@roger-grayfamilysnakes

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill That makes a lot more sense to me - I think the 'Visual DG Genotypes' chart would be better with the DGc added.. So when Homozygous is present in the DGa or DGb locations, do you think the DGc is required? Were you able to identify any that were Homozygous in either DGa or DGb that did not have Het in the other (and were nonvisual) in order to confirm that homozygous in one of the locations is not enough for visual? I'm still trying to wrap my brain around why this more complex situation would act so much like a simple recessive in pairings and offspring. It seems we would have MUCH lower visual babies in a Mom (visual) to Son (het) pairing if 3 genes are required to make it work.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

DGc doesn’t seem to matter except with DGa HET DGb HET offspring. But as we do more sequencing we will find out for sure! We did have DGa HOM DGb negative and DGa negative DGb HOM and neither were ever visual DGs.

@roger-grayfamilysnakes

Жыл бұрын

​@@bhmorrill Can we also assume DGc must be Homozygous to show the DH DGA/DGb? Otherwise, we should have lots of visual DG popping up from DG x Normal pairings (12.5%+) I would think.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Yes, you got it! That is our working assumption!

Is the paradox anomaly on your radar or something that has been thought about for genetic testing? I know that it’s not necessarily genetic but if it’s a polygenic situation, maybe it could be actually bred but it’s just an odds probability that is difficult to achieve.

@franwi1722

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the whitewash project was something along those lines. Paradoxing gene that was super inconsistent with rates of passing. Was proven genetic but wouldn't pass at 50/50 odds, just kinda randomly from clutch to clutch from what I've read on it.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We have not tried to do any test design for paradox in ball pythons. It is random enough that it would be difficult to come up with any mutations that increase the chances of producing them. But it would for sure be cool if we could figure out how to make more of them!

One question I have is you mentioned a Homo A and Homo B would be a more valuable male. Wouldn’t that male always pass a single copy of both A and B which would result in all of its offspring being a visual DG? Theoretically making it a super DG lol and it being able to breed to a normal and make all DGs?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than that, which we decided to not try and get into in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

Does that mean you could breed F DGa to Male DGa and make an offspring that is DGa homozygous?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Yes! And from what we have seen so far, it would not be a visual DG because it does not have a mutation at DGb as well.

@morpheusmorphs2823

Жыл бұрын

?? If your male was Homozygous DGa AND Homozygous DGb then ALL his offspring would be DGab Het ( visuals !?!?!?)

thats really interesting. I wonder how many people thought they got ripped off when they bought a het that never proved lol.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We are aware of at least a couple instances in which a HET x HET pairing never produced any visuals after several years trying. But it is possible both animals were HET or HOM for just one of DGa or DGb, but if both animals are HET for the same, say DGa in this example, then all offspring will only have a mutation at one location and even if the animals are DGa HOM and DGb no, they will never be any visuals because there has to be at least one mutation at each location in order to have a chance to be a visual. So it is possible if you have a pairing that isn't giving you visual DGs, that if you do a different pairing then you could start producing visual DGs! This is another big positive thing about understanding how this works and being able to test our breeders, and potential holdbacks so that we can produce more visual DGs from now on!

@OlympusReptiles

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill Would love to have you on the channel sometime, maybe a pre recorded deal or a live doing a Q and A reference ball python genetics.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

I’d be happy to! Just let me know when you’d like to do it!

@OlympusReptiles

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill It will likely be august, as i am pretty full until then with life. How can we get in touch to make it happen?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

@@OlympusReptiles probably easiest would be email: dendroaspis03@gmail.com but you can also message us on IG or FB! I look forward to it, we will have lots more figured out by then!!!

so a DGa het x DGb het = visual DG. right, but does DGa het x DGa het = visual DG for example?

@RobLashmar

Жыл бұрын

No. It needs to be at least het in the two different locations. Homozygous in only one location will not produce a visual.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

You got it! That is what we have seen so far!

You just described a more complex recessive trait.

I’d assume with polygenic desert ghost, this must also be the case with the “enhancer” gene that supposedly allelic

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

So far that does look to be the case. The few enhancers we have sequenced have the same DGa and DGb changes we see in DG lines. And it’s possible that we will find that enhancers have more of the third mutation in general, but we will have to sequence more before we can figure that out. Still lies to learn, but so glad to finally know why it’s been more difficult than all the others!!!

@lanedj801

Жыл бұрын

So does this also mean that because of polygenics only needing 1 gene per allele you could potentially have a double recessive or super with desert ghost and not know?

When is monsoon testing going to be a thing

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Not sure, but we are working on it!

So, super simplified, DG is like eye color in humans, at least

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Yes, there are some similarities between how DG works and how eye color in humans works. But in our case the two main genes that affect DG are on different chromosomes. In human eye color there are two genes on the same chromosome, and then several others that play a smaller role. But yes, some similarities!

@thehitomiboy7379

Жыл бұрын

@@bhmorrill Interesting. Certainly makes it a lot easier to explain at least.

I have a DG enchi lemon blast available for $600 if anyone is interested

@aidanmorrison2109

Жыл бұрын

Male or female?

@raybrozzo7850

Жыл бұрын

@@aidanmorrison2109 male...

100

Waiting for the "cocomelon" video version of this explanation for me to understand. My brain hurted after reviewing this a 3rd time straight 😅. Am I to understand that a visual DG will not always produce 100% hets?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

I know others will be making videos about this that are much better video makers than me, so keep your eyes open for more videos!!!

@BBMReptilesPR

Жыл бұрын

@Ben Morrill it's not the content. it's more like me trying to understand the concept and explanation. I appreciate your input, but to put it simple. You're the professor, and I'm Gilligan. But this opens more questions than answers. I can see the excitement of discovery in your field this will generate. Just curious how this changes everything we thought we knew about this gene. Again, I ask, am I to assume that from your findings, a visual DG will not always produce 100% hets?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

You are very kind! And we appreciate the questions! Because this trait seems to be mostly affected by just two different genes, what we are calling DGa and DGb, it is not all that different from the breeders perspective than a single gene recessive when you look at breeding results. It might help to think of a DGa HET and DGb HET animal as being like a bumblebee. It is heterozygous at two different locations for two different genes that affect whether the animal will be a bumblebee or not. The vast majority of visual DGs we have run are either HOM HET, HET HOM, or HOM HOM. So all offspring from any of these genotypes would give you at least one DG mutation in one of the two main genes. Visual DGs that are HET HET are very rare, and are likely visual because of what is happening at the third gene, but because we don’t know where that is we don’t know that for sure yet. But in this case if an offspring didn’t get DGa or DGb from the visual parent, it would likely get a mutation at the third location, so it would still be a non-visual carrier for DG. Which with single gene mutations we call non-visual carriers hets, but with polygenic traits we have multiple locations to talk about, so just saying “het for DG” would be a little confusing because then we wouldn’t know which of the multiple genes the animal is het for. I hope that helps some…and keep the questions coming!!!

@BBMReptilesPR

Жыл бұрын

@Ben Morrill The comparison of a Bumblebee, which is two separate traits from two snakes to a Single Snake that is a Visual DG, is mind-blowing and only makes this gene even more interesting as also complex. The mear fact of a mystery 3rd trait that could be the determining factor of producing visual from a non visual or even visual is what amazes me. I am heavily invested in the DG project, and as of yet, to produce a visual. I am looking forward to your findings and can see the excitement of the process, but I am somewhat frustrated with understanding it at the same time. Keep doing the good work, as this only fuels the main reasons we love these animals, as even today after years and years of keeping has shown us there is still more to offer then what many originally expected.

@shawnc5245

Жыл бұрын

@@BBMReptilesPR Test them and find out exactly what they have, and you will dramatically increase your odds of making more!

so to dumb it down so the Hom A and Hom B is like a regular visual that both are Hom A Hom B only produce Hom A hom B's and Hom A Het B is a visual het ? lol going to re-watch this 2 or 3 more times and try and understand better and Hom C could be where Enhancer falls ?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, with more than one gene involved, and us ball python breeders used to thinking about single gene traits, it will take some getting used to for sure! Think of visual DG as being something that you have to have mutations at multiple locations in order to get the visual. Kind of like a bumblebee. But in the case of DG, the likelihood of it being a visual DG is affected by mostly those two genes, but at least one other gene affects it as well. So there are potentially many combinations that can lead to a visual, and many more that will be non-visual carriers of the DG trait. I hope that helps?

HOLY SHIT WOAH

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

💯!!!

342👍

Problem, if this is true then you can have a visual that when bred to a normal not carrying either of the genes you can hatch a full clutch of visuals... a double homo a/b bred to a normal non het would produce clutches that are all dbl het a/b aka visual dgs... even with Dbl het a/b animal you would have a 25% chance of hitting visuals when bred to a non het.

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

With this being a polygenic trait it is more complicated than that, which we decided to not try and get into in the first video because it can get very complicated very quickly! So most animals that are DGa HET and DGb HET are NOT visual DG. In the few cases we have seen this happen our best guess right now is that it is because of mutations at the third gene, likely required to be homozygous in order for a HET HET animal to be a visual DG. BUT we don’t know that for sure yet. We are for sure still learning and we are working on gathering samples that will help us be able to figure out the location of the third gene. But do keep in mind that of all the visual DG animals we have run so far, ALL have had at least one mutation at both DGa and DGb, so these two genes are by far the most important in determining if an animal will be a visual DG. We would just like to understand the third mutation so that we can see why some HET HET animals look visual sometimes. Another piece to the DG puzzle that we are working on figuring out!!!

@franwi1722

Жыл бұрын

@Ben Morrill even with third gene wouldn't that still leave the door open to an animal that is homo in all 3 being able to sire entire clutches of dg without the other side needing to carry any of the genes since homo doesn't seem to be required of any? Wouldnt we be seeing very weird odds if there was a third gene needed esp if "dgc" needed to be homo for a visual? (Assuming that c needs to be visual as that would be the only reason we wouldn't see a visual being able to produce visuals when paired to non hets/non visuals)

@franwi1722

Жыл бұрын

@Ben Morrill do you happen to remember how many samples of non het, het and visual made up the 300 tested?

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

It was a fairly even split of about 1/3 of each!

@franwi1722

Жыл бұрын

​@Ben Morrill do yall publish your finding anywhere as studies? I'd love to read through them if you do.

What about Tri-stripe? Any word

@bhmorrill

Жыл бұрын

We need more tri stripe sheds in order to be able to start mapping it!