CP/M-80 is slow on the 128 because the Z-80 has to use a slower speed to work with the components on the C-128 which are inherently slower.

@TheSulross

2 жыл бұрын

and the Commodore floppy disk drive interaction was notoriously slow - which CP/M heavily depended on the floppy disk drive for loading and running its constituent OS components and many of its various standard commands; ideally one used a two floppy drive system when earnestly using CP/M. It was just enough CP/M capability for satisfying the curiosity to check it out.

Looks like the CP/M part of the 128 was about ten years behind the times on release, a fossil from the 1970s. If only Mr.Kildall's wife had signed that NDA from IBM😉

@OldAussieAds

Жыл бұрын

I don't think we'll ever know what happened between IBM, DR and Microsoft. There are so many different accounts of the story. I've certainly heard the one about Dorothy Kildall not signing the NDA and Gary Kildall going flying instead of being at the meeting. But I've also heard some very different version of events in which the NDA was signed and Gary definitely taking the whole thing seriously. I don't think we'll ever know at this point. I will say this though... The victors get to write history, which is why we know a lot about Microsoft and Apple history, but not as much about Digital Research, Atari and Commodore.

It's funny, when my uncle from NCR in Germany came to America, the first thing he typed on my Vic-20 was PIP. PIP is a CP/M command and does nothing on the MS Basic command line. He proclaimed "This computer is junk!" Ironic that just a few years later the 128 would support CP/M of all things.. dying.. the C128CDR was the Royal King Tiger Tank of the 8bits, the last and best, and yet it reached way backwards for some bizarre reason into the 70's with it's support of CP/M into the past ... kind of amazing. It's the only one of my 8bits I'd bother with setting up today... but so far, it' hasn't been compelling enough to even connect it and power it up. I'd have to clear off space on a table.. and for.. why? No internet lol.

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for a good story :)

Great video! I had to try loading CP/M on a C128 in VICE and after getting that running I started a copy of WordStar version 3.30 similar to the version I used a lot in DOS. After some trouble shooting I got it all working fine! Thanks for your good videos, Tommy!

IIRC, when CP/M on the Commodore 128 does a BIOS call the Z-80 has to transfer control to the 8502 for a bit. That might help slow things down.

I used to have a 128 and ran CP/M on it, and from what i remember there were many revisions of the CP/M system, early ones like Aug 85 were very buggy. I bought and ran Turbo Pascal without any issues - it was a Kaypro format disk if I remember correctly. Also, when i inserted an MFM disk a pop-up would come up allowing me to select the format. I dont remember it being as slow as i am seeing here either. I do remember that the serial port didnt work right until very late in the system updates.

Discussion in the thread here seems about the disk format differeing. I think all talk about the experiment using Tiki diskettes in the 1571. But Tommy managed to "type" the readme file of the Borland disk. If you look carefully you see the first lines garbled. This might indicate the files itself (also) have a different format, a different header. Gorilla.bas was also included in MS-DOS, I think version 5. Along Qbasic you could throw bananas against each apes head. Try speeds of 20..100 and yes, 90° is straight up and will hit the wrong monkey.

@GStev-qf1zl

8 ай бұрын

Intel mowNo(riscQicbizGnutz

used CP/M on a Commodore 64 too via a plugin cartridge but it wasn't anything to write home about either (those slow Commodore disk drives), but it did expose me to an actual disk operating system - and language compilers that could run on my very own computer hardware

I always wondered why the VICE starts two windows in 128-mode! That's actually pretty obvious but I never thought about it! Thanks for that hint about the 80 columns mode! :-)

Nice video. I wished you could make another video with more CP/M programs - not games, but real productive programs like text, spreadsheet, database, book keeping and maybe whatever special applications you find.

@johnsmith1953x

6 ай бұрын

*Before MS Word, there was WordStar which was on CP/M*

There's also one other issue regarding 5.25" disks - there was no standard. Often we think that disks would be 40 tracks, but that wasn't always the case back then. The version of CP/M was tied to the machine. Since the C-128 was essentially using the Kaypro format, anything that differed might not work. Ironically, the CP/M boot disk for the C-128 was a Commodore disk that booted CP/M (booted from GCR), but not a regular CP/M boot disk (booted from MFM).

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info

Brings back memories from my childhood with 128D. I must try to get me one in the future :) and as always great channel and a great thanks for all the help to our channel ;)

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! An no problem, just glad to help :)

Turbo pascal does run on the 128. CP/M on the C-128 is most compatible with the Kaypro CP/M machines. Images must be for 5.25" disks on low density (CP/M 80 didn't support high capacity as a rule - early versions ran on 8" disks). CP/M evolved into CP/M-86. One company (Seattle Computer Products) made a version of CP/M-86. That company was bought out completely for $50,000 - by Microsoft. CP/M-86 was used as the foundation for MS-DOS 1.0.

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

OK, nice details there :)

@TheSulross

2 жыл бұрын

well, a knock off clone of CP/M but certainly not a literal code fork, and originally it was referred to as Quick and Dirty DOS, denoting the rapidity in which it was developed

I had the C128D (the early non metal case) with 1571 and 1901 monitor. I used CP/m to learn C, i think with Small C ?

@gosammy1971

2 жыл бұрын

... and yes, it was incredible slow

great adventcalendar! much interesting videos =)

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you 🤗

There's also Nevada COBOL and Nevada FORTRAN for the uber geeks among us... 😎

CP/M should have been DOS. Somewhere out in the multiverse you've been making videos with CP/M emulators and today you made a video about an odd OS from the US called, Quick and Dirty OS, some CP/M knockoff OS that went nowhere beyond the garage.

@TheSulross

2 жыл бұрын

but Gary would have then been the "Bill Gates" - one likes to think Gary wouldn't have chosen the Dark Side as Bill did

@AndrewTubbiolo

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheSulross Kildall was much more the craftsman over Gates. I think Intergalactic Digital Research would have made better quality OS' than the carp Microsoft doled out. But that said, if I'm right, there would be pressure to push Kildall to the side as that push for quality would get in the way of profits. Shareholders don't like that.

@TheSulross

2 жыл бұрын

Andrew Tubbiolo "carp" as an adjective for Microsoft software - am stealing that :-)

@AndrewTubbiolo

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheSulross Please do. Thanks. :)

Have you just copied data to a d81 disk image file? Maybe it needs to be formatted in cp/m format first before adding files?

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

No I used ones I found online. Could not get them to boot

hey, nice clip! 🙂you come from swiss?...wenn ja, ich kann leider nur schlecht englisch...eine frage zum CP/M..welche vorteile bringt es dem basic gegenüber oder ist das eher sinnlos es zu nutzen? und hast du ahnung von einem C65?....lg, alles gute weiterso und mein abo hast du...sören aus chemnitz

@Arcticretro

7 ай бұрын

Norway

hvis du har en TIKI-100 så tar jeg gjerne en demonstrasjon av den.

@Arcticretro

2 жыл бұрын

Søk i kanalen min så finner du flere :)

1st again!