Here’s the second part to this video: Biblically Tackling James White's Challenge: Decoding John 6 kzread.info/dash/bejne/pYV7rrSso9C_n9Y.html

White's argument is usually a variation on: "I have a Calvinist narrative strung together with proof texts, and if you do not adhere to that, then I'm so confused, exasperated and perplexed that I just know what to do. There's just no consistency. No consistency whatsoever. This isn't even worth my time, but I'm going to try, so, uh, let's see how it goes."

@andrewlineberger7544

9 ай бұрын

U exactly right

@freeguy7628

9 ай бұрын

They tend to quote and rely on Reformers for their theology and not the bible. If you stick to the Bible alone, you can destroy Calvinism every time.

@HJM0409

9 ай бұрын

“I am coherent, you are irrational, take my word for it”. Yeah that is called ad hominem. He didn’t actually address your arguments, per usual for him. Consider it an honor that you you bumped his cognitive dissonance enough to make him lash out at you.

@icilahmb

9 ай бұрын

10 Muy Buenos.. That is exactly why I call Calvinist Selective Scripture Believers.. If a scripture regardless of its context seems to agree with the Philosophical Ideology Of Calvinism, it’s Gods Word, It’s Clear and Concise. If the scriptures misalign themselves against Calvinism the disclaimer is brought it.. 1. Yes the Bible does say that but God is Sovereign. 2. Unconsciously (Consciously) they read into the the scripture the following frase, of the elect. Which keeps their deception ongoing…

@josephbrandenburg4373

9 ай бұрын

you skipped the part where he says "If you agreed with me in the past, but don't agree with me now.. you must have never understood or agreed to begin with!"

A James white critique video is a badge of honor. Keep up the good work.

@b4ucmego

7 ай бұрын

I'm glad I found your videos. I have watched a lot of Kevin Thompson's videos on his channel regarding Calvinism and have learned a lot but I like your approach better. You are both very informed on the subject though. If you haven't already, you should watch his videos on Calvinism.

If you’re wondering why Calvinist bristle and belittle anyone who disagrees with them always remember what Calvin and the reformers did to the Anna Baptist. They drowned them by the hundreds.

@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT

9 ай бұрын

@timothyrogers1964 🎯 They worship his 'power' and seem to presume he uses it as they would if only they had it. (We've already seen how that works). What a man believes about the nature and desires of the God he worships will inevitably be acted out towards his fellow man. This is why John Calvin could execute those who disagreed with his theology without regretting his actions. He believed he was doing God a favor and just saving him the time. This is not unique to Calvinism. History is replete with similar atrocities in the name of many “religions”, Christian and Pagan alike. However, all of Christ's words and actions while here on earth as recorded in the gospels are a perfect demonstration of God's true love and desire towards man. Ironically, John Calvin's assumptions are not to be found among them.

@henrykevincueto9307

9 ай бұрын

In Christianity, Calvinist are the fire nation 😂

@jacobemmanuel4772

9 ай бұрын

What’s your source for Calvinists drowning Anabaptists by the hundreds?

@truth7416

9 ай бұрын

@@jacobemmanuel4772 Here is a legal binding document of the murders and crimes of John Calvin. THE FOLLOWING IS CALVIN'S REIN OF TERROR! John Calvin’s Bodycount… The victims are listed, followed by references, (A)…(L), the URLs of which are at the bottom. A. Execution 1. Jacques Gruet (A)”Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet’s book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch. ” (C)”Calvin cut off the head of Jacques Gruet “for having written impious letters, libertine verses, and for working to overthrow ecclesiastical ordinances.” (D)Quoting Stephan Zweig’s “The Right to Heresy”: “Jacques Gruet was racked and then executed merely for having called Calvin a hypocrite.” (E)”This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as ‘Libertines’, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force. Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and, best known, Michael *Servetus (1553).” (F)”Even eminent men were not safe from Calvin’s control. Jacques Gruet was beheaded for blasphemy, treason, and a threat to the ministers.” (J) 2. Giovanni Valentino Gentile (A)and(G)”Another victim of Calvin’s fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded.” (H) & (I) Very full accounts of Gentile 3. Michael Servetus Is much needed about him? Is there any debate about his murder? (A) (C)”Seven years before the conference which was now to take place in Calvin’s house on the proposals of the queen-mother, Michel Servet, a Frenchman, travelling through Switzerland, was arrested at Geneva, tried, condemned, and burned alive, on Calvin’s accusation, for having “attacked the mystery of the Trinity,” in a book which was neither written nor published in Geneva.” (E)(J) 4. Raoul Monnet (E) (J)page 223 “This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as “Libertines, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force.Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and best known, Michael Servetus (1553). By 1555, however, all resistance had ceased and Calvin was the uncontested master of the city.” 5. Others (A)”Calvin also had twenty women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545.” (A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.” ( F)”A heretic who also was an anti-Trinitarian was burned at the stake.” NOTE: Probably Servetus B. Banishment (mere banishment!) 1. Castellio (A)”Gruet’s death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec - moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary.” (B) (K) Very full account of Castellio 2. Bolsec (A)(B)(F)”Jerome Bolsec, a physician who attacked Calvin’s doctrine of predestination, was banished.” (L) 3. Others (A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.” A. www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm B. www.gospeltruth.net/heres…_chap5.htm C. www.worldwideschool.org/l…hap16.html D. www.dimensional.com/~randl/calvin.htm E. www.gospelcom.net/chi/HER…l047.shtml F. www.churchlink.com.au/chu…alvin.html G. www.newadvent.org/cathen/03195b.htm H. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…xv.xiv.htm I. online.sksm.edu/ouh/chapter/13_XIII.html J. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church; F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingstone; Oxford University Press; K. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc….xv.ix.htm (different page from H) L. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…v.viii.htm John Calvin is a man who is held up by many evangelicals as an example of the most perfect systematic theologian that ever lived. And yet it would appear that he did not even meet the basic requirements of a NT overseer/bishop as to godly character! 1 Tim 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. The New Testament approach to false teachers is the precise opposite of what Calvin’s modus operandi was: 2 Tim 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. As to the relationship of his doctrine to his practice, as he plainly taught that everything that happens is God’s will (I can provide the quotes if you would like), then it necessarily follows that he considered everything he did as God’s will, even having his detractors beheaded, burned at the stake, or banished. I’m saying that one’s theology inevitably works out in one’s practice, and this was all too apparent in the life of John Calvin. If I had someone who disagreed with my theology put to death (had I the political power Calvin had), would I be qualified to teach the Word of God? One’s actions don’t have any bearing on the authenticity of one’s teaching? It seems to me that we should hold ANY theologian to the same moral standard as any other teacher in the body of Christ.

@CoffeeGrinder86

5 ай бұрын

​@jacobemmanuel4772 Baptist History. Literally there is a book that chronicles that.

Humility is a great weapon in apologetics, keep the same posture.

@elaineauo

9 ай бұрын

Amen!

You know you are making a difference when the Calvinists like White show up and contradict themselves by trying to persuade you to go against what God has willed and predetermined for you to do. Keep up the good work brother!

@ManassehJones

9 ай бұрын

Nobody is trying to pursuade anyone to go against what God has willed. That's impossible anyway. James White is only pointing out the Truth that "nobody born again from above by the will and power of Gods effectual grace alone," and MADE an entirely new creature with a new will, having been buried with Christ by baptism of the Spirit, could ever disown that transformation as heretical, because they're a living epistle of it. Pointing out Truth isn't for the purpose of and hopes that God will have mercy on them, but rather to leave trails for the elect of God, that God may use it to save His elect.

@malvokaquila6768

9 ай бұрын

So true Calvanism like all forms of determinism are either false or irrelevant. Even if it was true you can't choose to change into a beliver in it unless determined to by external factors, thus irrelevant.

@ManassehJones

9 ай бұрын

@malvokaquila6768 Self Determinism is irrelevant...because Self will naturally ALWAYS glorify Self.

@obrien709

9 ай бұрын

@@malvokaquila6768 Yep, it’s completely contradictory and self defeating. Look at Manny here he doesn’t even believe his own claims of determinism. He can’t even speak as-if it’s true.

@malvokaquila6768

9 ай бұрын

@@ManassehJones thank you for sharing your own thoughts as if they were not determined to be said, and as if I can also freely respond to them. TLDR you sawed the branch off that you were sitting on.

Your response to him was very gracious.

James white always seems like hes trying to convince himself hes right but just isnt sure

@nealwright5630

3 ай бұрын

That's the feeling I get. It is hard for him to "kick against the pricks"... meaning context.

Watched your full series after just discovering you on KZread, and refreshed to see you come to the same theological exegesis as me after studying the scripture thoroughly. You explained everything so well and much better than I ever could to someone while referencing verses and the false inferences that Calvinism places on the text. Excited to see what you tackle about James White's claims in this video.

@rayhchc6451

9 ай бұрын

Relax‼️ In the same way Calvinists misrepresent Baptists and Scripture, so do likewise Baptists to SDA and Scripture. Which is worse? Baptists calling SDA a cult or SDA calling Baptists (and ALL Sun(day) worshippers Sunday Pagans and daughter harlots of Mother Harlot, Catholicism? Talk to me! I wanna understand Sunday Pagans a little better. You do want me understand you right? Nobody wants to be misunderstood, right? Did I assume correctly the kind of pagan you are, a Baptist Pagan⁉️

@rayhchc6451

9 ай бұрын

You watched his full series, but on all of his channel only two comments? Of which one is on this video. So where does the other comment go? On this video or the series. If on the series, you left just one comment? That doesn't sound as passionate as you are in this comment, does it? Talk to me, pagan!

@markshaneh

9 ай бұрын

⁠talk to me pagan Go away reprobate

@user-nu3sd7zb2j

9 ай бұрын

​@@rayhchc6451what're you crying about ?

@rayhchc6451

9 ай бұрын

If I were crying, you'd be sitting with a nappy rash. Are you? I don't think so 🤪

Calvinism is a clever series of post-hoc rationalizations. Ideologue-fodder.

@henrykevincueto9307

9 ай бұрын

Calvinist are the fire nation of Christianity

@beautifulbuds

9 ай бұрын

Amen!! But like all cults, they defend it to the hilt.

@PaDutchRunner

9 ай бұрын

It’s simply an attempt to understand Scripture using Scripture and is based upon the presumption that God is a rational Being (which we know to be true because God created us in His image and has endowed us with reason, albeit a reason which has been corrupted by our sin).

@johngraves9237

9 ай бұрын

@@henrykevincueto9307 LOL I just happen to know what that is, if I did not have a child I would not know!!

@itlupe

9 ай бұрын

​@@henrykevincueto9307describe fire nation

I think it's clear that James White has stopped striving for the truth a long time ago. That's the problem; we're not all operating under the same pretense or towards the same goal.

@silveriorebelo2920

7 ай бұрын

that is actually the case with most protestants - they left apostolic Christianity with no will to verify the reasons why they find themselves in that situation... especially by no longer seeking to avoid anything pointing to the Catholic Church

@lsimmo78

6 ай бұрын

@@silveriorebelo2920 The number one issue at stake in the reformation was 'How is man justified before God'? The Bible clearly teaches that a man is justified by faith and is not justified by works, as the Catholic Church taught.

I love the story of you and your wife working through this with your church - very mature and Christ-like ❤️

James White is the idolized poster boy of “you don’t understand Calvinism”

@CoffeeGrinder86

5 ай бұрын

Meanwhile people literally quote Calvinism, the 1689 etc . 😂

Why does White dress like a murderer on Columbo

Brother, God bless you for being faithful to your convictions and following truth to where ever it may lead you. I pray that the Lord uses these videos and blesses them for those with eyes to see and ears to ear. He will guide you and lead you in the next phase of your ministry. My theology is very similar to what I have heard from you as far as these video series go at least. Never grew up in a church, was saved at 35 and just took to trying to read the scriptures myself while testing everything I hear around my in Christendom and the different churches I attended. I almost certainly have my blind spots, but God has been faithful to lead me in and out of trials and falsehoods as long as I remain humble and seek Him for wisdom above all others. There are great teachers out there that God has appointed, but they have their blind spots and presuppositions as well....pure truth is only found in God and His Word, which is why the Bible says that you don’t need any man teach you, that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. It is good to wrestle through things and different theologies, it helps us refine our faith and discernment. Very amicable the way you left your previous church btw. That should be an example for others to follow. Try not to take anything James White said to personally, which I am sure you won’t, he doesn’t always show as much grace as he should. He resorts to ad hominin attacks and false dichotomies to try and discredit his opponents; I have wondered at times how so many people can’t see through such a feeble strategy....because this to me is an obvious sign of pride due to a weakness in argument. I currently attend a very Calvinistic church where the lead pastor has a very strong personality, and in my opinion is leading the church away from it's mission, down the road of what appears to be Post Mill, Christian Nationalism and Dominionism accompanied with Theonomy. All things the Spirit has convicted me heavily of, if you don't mind please pray for wisdom and guidance for me and my family in how to handle this situation. Much love brother, and I’ll be praying for you and what’s next for your ministry. God bless.

@obrien709

9 ай бұрын

Well said. Prayers for you and your family and for your pastor to repent from false teaching.

I don't understand why James White still argues the way he does. It must be effective or he wouldn't continue doing it, but it doesn't rely heavily on logically sound reasoning or epistemology.

@atyt11

9 ай бұрын

White is a bully, and has much invested in his soap box and “convictions”🙄 He is a world class strawman creator and burner . I think he puts himself to sleep at night, by listening to himself attempt to speak Greek

@markshaneh

9 ай бұрын

I think JW is a living ion line example of cognitive dissonance

@truth7416

9 ай бұрын

He gets paid for it. It is how he makes his living?

@atyt11

9 ай бұрын

@@markshaneh absolutly...👊👊😂😂

@andrewtsousis3130

9 ай бұрын

Dr whites arguments consist of “never understood it in the first place” “I’ve studied it for 40 years” - I’m more and more convinced that he is incapable of seeing the word of God without a reformed/Calvinistic lense. We pray that the Holy Spirit can open his eyes. This doctrine is truly one of the enemies masterful deceptions. The fact that the enemy has been able to distort Gods Sovereignty and Christs very sacrifice (and salvation it’s self) the way he has is one of his most clever deceptions.

I don't know what's worse, watching and listening to James White or being forced to watch the view 🤣

Dave Hunt's book, "What Love is This" opened my eyes to the flaws of Calvinism. Calvin himself was a hyper legalist, and its important to look at the founder of a system of belief. The Christians living in Geneva were oppressed.

I can appreciate taking the high road by saying James White lacks grace. Grace is undeserved favor from God not brother white. At the end of the day he’s rude, sarcastic, and condescending. PERIOD.

They only respond when there’s something that makes them worried about a good challenge brought. I love all your videos

@ManassehJones

9 ай бұрын

This is correct. We're worried for his soul.

@unitedstates3068

9 ай бұрын

@@ManassehJones who's "we're" ?? - are you afraid god's not calvinistically "Sovereign" - has He lost calvinistic control? If god's granted him evanescent grace or damned him to hell for His own glory, then who are you O man to worry or be concerned? All praise and glory isn't it???? vid "Patrideus.The..Sovereign" says it all

@ManassehJones

9 ай бұрын

@unitedstates3068 The "we're" are us elect sons of God, born again from above by the will and power of Gods effectual grace alone, and transformed into entirely new creatures in the nature of Jesus Christ by His blood. That's the "who." And no, if God has not decreed him to be delivered from his idol worship, he will depart the land of the living worshipping his imaginary autonomous free will he currently worships, as will all Self Determinists.

@obrien709

9 ай бұрын

@@unitedstates3068 He’s unable to comprehend the point you made. Manny believes God is a deity of deception therefore all he produces is self contradictory deception. He can’t even speak as-if his deception is true.

@andrewtsousis3130

9 ай бұрын

@@ManassehJones why would you be worried for anyone’s soul? According to your doctrine only by Gods sovereign decree is anyone saved anyway? Be worried for your own soul, are you sure God has regenerated you and given you saving Faith? I pray you can walk in the knowledge and assurance that you have been saved by your faith in Jesus sacrifice for your sin, and your confession with your mouth that you believe God raised Jesus from the dead. I hope and pray your’re not walking around hoping it is God’s will that your saved. Good news is that it is His will, you just have to believe. This my friend is the greatest demonstration of Gods Sovereignty, love and Grace. For He is not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

I assume this first video will just cover some key points Dr. White has made? Either way, I’m not surprised about his quick response to your series. I’ve really enjoyed your videos, and I can’t wait to watch this one today

I really don't see how Calvinists hold on to John 6 so much. Their interpretation of what Jesus said is 'no man can come to me except the Father draw him, and the Father will only draw some, the elect'. But Jesus never said that, he just said the Father drawing was needed. And Jesus said when He was lifted up He would draw all men to Himself. Also within John chapter 6 Jesus said - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40, KJV)' and Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (John 6:47, KJV)

@obrien709

9 ай бұрын

Well said. Every last one of their proof texts when understood and taken in context is actually some of the strongest scripture that disproves Calvinism. Like you pointed out John 6 is about the revelation that Jesus Christ is God on earth and through His Gospel He will draw all men! It’s actually the opposite of the Father and Son being separate entities like the Calvinist interpretation has it.

One of the things I love about your ministry in providing an alternate view to Calvinism is how you do so with grace and love. Yes, I believe you are accurately communicating the truth of what the Bible teaches (instead of a man made theology, which is what Calvinism is) but the fact that you do so with humility and respect of others is also true to what the Bible calls us to as well. Please keep up the great work brother 😊

Thanks brother for posting this. I will try to watch more later when I'm able to stand White's incessant tripe. I will have to do it in segments, as I cannot stand much of him for very long. Keep up the fine work brother!

@laurakosch

8 ай бұрын

How many converts to non Calvinism has James White made?? He is his own undoing. Praise God!

It’s probably very difficult because James has so much backed up technical debt from his systemic narrative that he can’t really understand others in any meaningful way.

I will not attack James White, since he does have some good stuff occasionally, but I watched all 5+ hours of your series and have since recommended it to others, and it was one of the best, MOST clear, and easy to follow breakdowns of the huge contradictions of Calvinism. James White can't argue against it and always goes to ad hominem attacks. He did it when the Mormon was debating with him and he was losing, he does it to Leighton Flowers constantly, and always assigns bad faith motives when presented with indisputable errors in his theology and then doesn't answer the questions or deflects. He recently said the Holocaust wasn't as bad as God planning the murder of His own Son on the cross. I mean, did He forget that Jesus said He laid His own life down and took it up again and that laying down your life for a friend was the greatest form of love (not evil)? To try to argue with a man that sees the ultimate act of love and provision as something more evil than the Holocaust... I don't think you can have a real discussion with him. He is going to need to pull himself out of the mire of bad doctrine and twisted theology first. This is what happens when you convince yourself that you are specially chosen of God and loved by Him while most others just aren't. So frustrating! EDIT: sounds like since you don't hold to or discuss 100% of what he believes, he can just say "Oh, wow, what is he talking about? We don't believe that!" Well, yeah, it will differ James, but the main thrust is what most believe. Just because there are slight differences, doesn't mean you throw out the entire video series.

@obrien709

9 ай бұрын

Exactly! Well said.

@greengateacreshomestead4324

9 ай бұрын

You sure have a very small view of God. The suffering of Christ can not be compared the the whole world's suffering put together.

@freeguy7628

9 ай бұрын

@greengateacreshomestead4324 that isn't what I said, I said James thinks it was an act of evil greater than all other evil. It was an act of love.

@greengateacreshomestead4324

9 ай бұрын

@@freeguy7628 To clarify, do you think the holocaust was an act of love or evil from God the Father?

@freeguy7628

9 ай бұрын

@@greengateacreshomestead4324 I would like to know your perspective on it first. What do you think?

A couple of things I would say just into the first 1/2 hour. First. You were very gracious in discussing reformed theology and to those who are reformed. Second. Your presentation was plenty well organized, you clearly stated you planned to cover tulip. How is that disorganized? I think that your videos were an excellent on how tulip cannot be a Biblical view.

How many times does Dr. White say "I don't have time for this"? What are the fruits of the Spirit, James?

You’re a Blessing can’t wait!

Nothing upsets a Calvinist more than laying out their theology in plain, easy-to-understand language without the sophistry and rhetoric they use to cloak their real doctrines.

@Apollos2.2

9 ай бұрын

100%

@Axisearth

9 ай бұрын

Exactly!

@answeringthewmscog

8 ай бұрын

Exactly

@lmorter7867

7 ай бұрын

Yep. You know when White talks about someone like this that person has struck a nerve exposing the truth about the flaws of his doctrinal beliefs.

@Apollos2.2

7 ай бұрын

@lmorter7867 Like they say, "Somethings don't have to be refuted, just explained clearly" The Lord's sheep hear his voice and we know it's not speaking Calvinism 🙆‍♂️

James White has zero logic. He admits this by bumbling and just asserting. If you were as incoherent as he claims, it would be easy for him to show it instead of claiming it is so difficult to respond to.

@greengateacreshomestead4324

9 ай бұрын

Are you claiming the professors who gave him a doctoral degree have zero logic too? What criteria did you use to determine he has zero logic?

@GrahameGould

9 ай бұрын

@@greengateacreshomestead4324 what he says on this video! Obviously that's the context of my comment unless you have as liitle intelligence as he does.

@GrahameGould

9 ай бұрын

@@greengateacreshomestead4324 so are you suggesting that earned degrees mean that your logic is sound? So atheists are logical in their atheism?

I don't know why James can't discern calvinism. Maybe the deception is too strong, it makes him blind.

I liked your 5 video series, I cant take J. W. serious. He is a master debater, always finding some decoy, dodging, accusation, attack of character, Especially when confronted with a good Biblical point, as a consequence, a calvinst doesnt get to really think of the point, he is a master at decoys,,,,but foolish in his reasoning. I dont sense any humility and love Your videos are sensible i can appreciate that in 5 videos its not going into every detail, which would take much longer. I think you have good thinking skills. The wisdom from above is first pure, peaceable, reasonable, full of mercy ,good fruits

I just want you to know, I learned a lot from you

The 5 part videos were good, don't let the opposing view discourage you. Amazing job, glory to God☝🙏

Your Biblical Counseling skills are shining in your calm and gracious response.

I found your presentations logical and coherent. I’m sorry White couldn’t.

I posted a comment critiquing Dr. White's mischaracterization of Romans 8, but it seems to have disappeared, so I will try again. He incorrectly removes the verse from its context (and misquotes it). He makes it apply to all men when it is actually speaking specifically of "those who walk according to the flesh", which if you walk back a bit further you will see is directed to "those who know the law", which further still is connected to a larger argument Paul is making about justification by faith. My point was that in Romans 8, in context, Paul is making an argument against legalism, and how Christ has set us free form the law of sin and death. It's not some kind of treatise on mankind's depravity. Just read the context of Romans from the beginning of the letter, not a cherry-picked, out-of-context paraphrase. This is pure eisegesis by Dr. White.

Still watching but I just wanted to point out Jason I really liked that you let James talk a lot and flesh out his point before you paused the video to give your response. Some other people I watch on KZread will pause the video literally after every sentence the person says and it really becomes unenjoyable to watch. REALLY APPRECIATED that you didn’t do that 🙏🏻 anyways I’m gonna keep watching and I’m sure I’ll have a couple more comments 🤓

You have shown so much grace towards JW. He had absolutely no Biblical refutation of your position. It is quite clear that he is unable and/or unwilling to address your positions. Maybe in the second half… May the Lord encourage you and your family. What you have done is honoring to Him and His Word.

Hi. New subscriber (liked ) and bell notification. My eye twitched at the James White opening . Had to pause and post this at the 2 min mark. Looking forward to the rest of the video.

Its painful to watch a man of Dr White's educated level resort to such shallow, lockerroom arguments. He starts off with personal attacks on your lack of knowledge and ability to present your arguments ironically using arguments lacking any support or coherence. Wish he would stick to scripture and the subject rather than attacking the person.

@obrien709

9 ай бұрын

What else can he do? If he stuck with scripture people would realize that his Calvinist doctrines are not only nowhere to be found but flat out contradicted by scripture.

when my brothers and I were kids, my brother would poke fun at our older brothers, and when they lashed out at him, because they were teenagers, he would shout back "It's just a joke! can't you take a joke!" Thankfully he has matured since then and is a well adjusted adult. But, having seen many people engage with and be engaged by James White, I see him use those exact tactics. I'm not trying to speak ill of Dr. White, because he has done some great work with reaching LDS members in the southwest. If these are the only 2 videos you ever make in response to White, it would serve you well, because, from what I've seen on other channels, he is not a good faith interlocuter, and fails to seek understanding of his opponents view and consistently uses a strawman of their argument constantly. So be careful with how often you respond to him, and I would urge you to hold him to account to accurately and as flawlessly as possible, state your position back to you. If he can't do that, or is unwilling to do try, he's not worth the energy to do more responses. Hopefully that doesn't come across as too harsh against James, because he is still our brother, but it grieves me to see how poorly he treats arguments from any other position but his own.

I often hear that Calvinism is logical, but from what I've seen, it's no more logically accurate than it is Biblically accurate.

Pastor, I just wanted you to know that your video series was very well put together; it was coherent, logical, and carefully presented. James White does have a habit of criticizing method when he has very little to attack of substance.

You are very gracious in your response and that's great to see. But you're getting under their skin over in the Calvinist camp, because you're able to walk through what Calvinism is and succinctly explain why you now reject it. On a somewhat more polemical note, cam you see how cultish Calvinism can be? The way you and others who leave Calvinist theology behind are attacked, smeared, belittled and discredited is exactly how cults go after dissidents or defectors!

In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible?

Thank you! You were very gracious with your explanations and I absolutely loved how you articulated your response. This is the way to continue the conversation if we really want to pursue the truth. We have to make the sacrifice to lay down the glasses with the prefabricated hermeneutic burned into them. You brought up many good points, one being how people have the ability to worship a false god whole heartedly, but not the true God regardless of God’s appeal to know Him. You’re amazing brother! I can see God all over you… Keep up the good work!

I appreciate the work you're doing here you're doing a good job and I'm really enjoying the series thank you so much❤😊

Thanks, Jason. I have a lot of respect for you and Alana. I'm working my way out of Calvinism one verse at a time. It's so important to be good Bereans. God bless. ❤

Love how you mentioned what you learned from Beyond The Fundamentals (Kevin) great to see!

Even if it says keep them for judgement,,, Has nothing to do with decreed from birth, they already hardened own heart. I agree

Jason… you can out teach, out Greek, out theological, and out do anything James White teaches. One issue you have and it stands true. You have to much respect for Calvinism. It is a false gospel and James White will pay the price teaching that people don’t have the right on their own to believe in Jesus. Jason.. YOU HAVE A GIFT.. continue in it..

False dichotomies - need to remember that phrase. I usually say “the options you presented aren’t based in reality” 😂

the worst thing about calvinist preachers and teacher’s is they are calvinist preachers and teachers. If calvinism is true, there is no reason to preach or teach it. James White attacks everyone harshly who do not agree with him. He belittles people to the point of being arrogant. He view on the use of the critical text is just plain wrong and he is annoying who he treats people who are as knowledgeable but more gracious and kind.

I can't wait for this

You did a good job with this (and with your other videos). And I fully agree with something you said around 1:20:01 : "...if you really do understand reformed theology, it's so much more than soteriology. It really impacts how you see everything in the Bible and who God is and how He is working throughout all over Scripture. And so it's a big, it's a massive shift..." And this is why it's so hard for me to sit under any teaching by Calvinists, or to feel like I could work hand in hand with them in leadership, or even recommend any of their books, etc. They have a *very* different view of God, and that gives them a very different view of SO much of Scripture -- and they believe their Calvinistic framework SO strongly... and of course I believe they are wrong. I believe they are misinterpreting and misapplying the text of Scripture in these huge ways. Ways that distort the very character of God, the responsibility of man, the circumstances of life...these are day-to-day, moment-to-moment, how-do-we-actually-live-life-with-God issues. And it bothers me so much to see these things taught wrongly. I'd love to be able to soften my view, and believe that we just have a minor disagreement on secondary issues -- it just seems like the Calvinistic view of God is so far from the biblical one in so many ways. We wouldn't partner with others who distort God's character, would we? We don't partner with those who 'interpret Scripture differently' when it comes to PSA, or sexual matters, or the Trinity. Why is it okay with Calvinism? Is it because they sincerely think they're interpreting Scripture correctly? Do they have enough right to be considered true to Scripture? Do the core doctrines not include God's character? I know we don't require everyone to get everything right; none of us will ever have everything right until we're in the Lord's physical presence. But this seems *so big* to me...as you said, it's a massive shift. Where do we draw the line? I think what I said above sounds rather harsh, but please know that I'm asking sincerely, and hopefully. I really do want to understand how to think about this rightly, gracefully, biblically. And I'm hoping you (or others), since you used to be a Calvinist, can help me to do that.

If we are in Christ the Spirit will lead us into truth if we're willing to be lead. I could not agree more everyone should study the Word. Im a very recent Christian less than 2 year's and I'm still unsure on many issues BUT God has given me a love and reverence for His Word.

For me it’s prideful to state well you just must not of understood Calvinism when someone leaves it.

@Living Christian keep up the great work! Your channel is a blessing! 🙏💪💯

53:15 I don't even understand what that's supposed to mean. How can anyone "demand" God's grace when He has already freely given it? You can accept or reject the gift of grace. "Demand" is nonsensical. "I demand you give me the thing you already gave me!" ...huh?

@Loves2HugItOut

9 ай бұрын

So true

Why doesn’t James White just CONTEND with what you say instead of criticizing HOW you say it? It’s so frustrating! Doesn’t he have a higher education? I would expect an adult to be able to understand a child’s book no matter how elementary BETTER than a child could understand a book written for adults. So no matter how “messy” the arguments against Calvinism, couldn’t James White still not be able to discern your critiques and talk about them? Oh, and maybe give you the respect of watching all of your videos before he makes wide statements about them! This is SO frustrating to me! It’s like all he goes online to do is warn people not to look in your direction and the only reason he gives is because HE SAYS it’s too messy over there…it’s too incoherent over there…he plays the BEST card Reform Theology has…and that is it’s precise internal logic…but that logic only MATTERS if it is Biblically TRUE no matter how good it feels! And I “like” how James White likes to tell ex- calvinists to just shut up and disappear if they insist on leaving Calvinism! That sounds so wrong to me! I respect James White for most (not all) of his interactions with non-believers, but in this matter he always sounds like a boy trying to fend off bogeymen he perceives in the dark, rather than a man who confronts his enemies squarely and fairly on the field of battle.

@Living Christian You should do a video or a video series displaying the 40 or so times the ordo soludis is explicitly laid out. Maybe do a follow up doing the others. Just an idea, would be fun! Love your video and content, this was a great, well thought out, and respectful response, praise God that he helps you to imitate Christ's charity!

@icilahmb

9 ай бұрын

I believe Jason has done that already. Search his you tube channel.. Absolutely no question that scripture teaches Faith, followed by Salvation. Again.. Jason.. regardless if his one flaw, an awesome biblical sound preacher of Gods Word.

15:12 To the Calvinist, the fact they just about all claim that no one rejects Calvinism because the 'do' understand it simply confirms the deception of their own 'Gnosis'. Which they claim was bestowed upon them by God himself. But denied to others less fortunate. They are 'humbled' by it, and some are proud of that.

Thank you for your videos! I hope you're able to continue sharing truth with people.

i think that James White is trying to be clever and deceitful and is doing nothing more than trying to put you down and make you look incompetent I have seen him do this before to someone else, I had no problem understanding what you were saying and I'm pretty sure he understood , he just looks at you or anyone who has a really good argument against his belief is a threat so he comes out and tries to belittle you . keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to your next video. PS. The TULIP is the devil's favorite flower.

Going back to the word. I love it! Praise God for his word!

awesome sir!....keep on keeping on!...your on the right track....God Bless!

Thanks for an excellent presentation. You may be interested to know I published a 400 page book on this subject last year (4/22) titled: "Saved by Faith Through Grace or Saved by Decree? A Biblical and Theological Critique of Calvinist Soteriology." Passion for the truth is what fuels us!

@LindsayJackel

9 ай бұрын

I have your book. It is good read! Thank you for your work.

@gdrtheology

9 ай бұрын

Hello Lindsay. Glad you feel the book is helpful - the result of about 4 years of work! I hope it helps Christians see the falseness of Calvinism. Thanks for buying the book. Blessings with your ministry. Geoff@@LindsayJackel

I first 'met' James White when I saw him, several years ago, having discussions with Steven Anderson, in James White's own home if I remember correctly. I knew Steven Anderson as confrontational and vitriolic. the conversation went very well and so I kept watching, intrigued. It seemed James hospitality, willingness to listen and discuss rationally, had tamed Steven. At the End of the discussion, Steven could not stop and got confrontational and fractious, bullying. He was appallingly rude and spiritually aggressive. James White handled everything, in my estimation, with so much grace. After that I started to listen to James White, partly because of his patience and graciousness. Not anymore. It seems he just likes to punch the gut so to speak, of anyone who comes against Calvinism. I no longer see the humility in him that I first thought I saw. I will refrain from what I have actually come to believe about James, out of respect for Jason, not that it is nasty or hateful, but I just think it is pretty much the truth.

I've watched your first 2 videos and I learnt so much from your explanation. Its not jumbled up as James White says. Keep up the great work. May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you in your work in bringing God's word to all. Amen.

You have done something good here.

Now is the time to stay strong and continue to bless others. JW and other Calvinists will crucify, burn, or hang any who disagree. Your presentation is well reasoned and quite coherent, you're under his skin. Like a playground bully he'll be coming at you without grace and plenty arrogant ad hominem soon. Stay tuned.

@HusGoose

9 ай бұрын

You mean like everyone on this post is doing to Calvinists. Including you... The irony and hypocrisy is just, wow.

@sheilasmith7779

9 ай бұрын

​@HusGoose Yet another claim, absent any evidence of error or hypocrisy. Yomust have attened J

@HusGoose

9 ай бұрын

@@sheilasmith7779 "evidence of error" I was literally pointing out the hypocrisy in the post above...

@sheilasmith7779

9 ай бұрын

I guess it's not clear to me your objection to the post. If we claim to be Christian, then we should not behave in the same manner as those we criticize. I have no problem arguing the meaning of scripture or even pointing out J.W unseemly behavior, but am cautious in claiming who is destined for hell. That's God's lane.

@sheilasmith7779

9 ай бұрын

@HusGoose No, you did not point out the hypocrisy, you simply made a claim there was hypocrisy. A claim is not evidence.

I can tell that you really wear your heart on your sleeve. I know I haven't put out any critiques towards Calvinism because I know that I would have to defend myself in personal attacks as well. Or maybe what I would perceive as personal attacks. I truly enjoyed your five-part series on why you're no longer a Calvinist and it really opened up for me a desire to understand why I believe what I believe. I have done so much research now I have looked into the institutes. The life of Calvin and many of the things that make reform theology what it is. Maybe I don't understand what reform theology is. I do know that this theology rests on man's systematic interpretation of the scripture. I don't think someone like James White will ever comprehend your point of view he's going to look at you with that perplexed look on his face because he doesn't understand what you're saying because he doesn't understand the alternative and when I say alternative I mean the interpretation of what classical Christians were viewing sociology from during the first hundred years or so of Christendom. Even when the apostles were in the process of writing down the word of God and passing it out to other believers they were having to deal with heresies within the church because people are different and they're going to do things differently. It's always been a huge challenge to get everybody on the same page in regards to theology whether it be mode baptism the Eucharist and the significance of these Christian principles taught in the great commission. What I do know is it's slanderous to the nature of God to suggest that he creates vessels of destruction for his personal glory when the Bible constantly communicates something different. It also takes the focus away from the whole purpose on why we even acknowledge our creator in our need for a Savior. Because if Jesus is left out of the equation then I just don't see any point. I don't see any point in even believing in God if there is no hope in salvation through Christ. That is if you're not one of God's elect.

James White tactic 101: dismiss the argument out of hand so the audience that always drinks his koolaid looks at the critical thought being proposed as ridiculous. He does this ALL THE TIME. He is the absolute KING of Gaslighting. Mike Winger. Leighton Flowers. William Lane Craig. Mark Hitchcock. I could go on and on, I have watched many debates and James White has a demeanor that is absolutely the worst. Just saying. He looks at these moments like he is in a debate competition and he is more concerned with tactics than the truth; he very often bullies the "competition." Not my word, I really think he sees it as a competition. I just wish people would try to discover truth and leave all the nonsense aside; just read what God's Word says. Get rid of the confirmed bias and go in it blank. Use that tactic James, it changes EVERYTHING when you dismiss the agenda.

Thanks for your work, Jason, I've enjoyed your videos and appreciate how clearly you've presented your position. I find it disappointing that James White doesn't properly view the videos he's critiquing before commenting on them. I've seen him do the same with Leighton Flowers, playing a 25-second clip out of context, then claiming that he didn't explain himself well enough, even though ten minutes later Leighton provides all the explanation he could want. I understand he's busy, but if he doesn't have time to view enough of a video to represent it fully and fairly, he should just leave it alone. Your comments on unity are excellent, and I've taken the same position. About five years ago we started a Christian fellowship, consisting of three homeschooling families with the fathers as elders. We each came from different backgrounds and theological positions, and so we deliberately made the choice to keep our doctrinal statement minimal. We decided that church membership would only require agreement with the Apostle's Creed and Nicene Creed, and that we would practice believer's baptism and the Lord's Supper. When it comes to preaching, we avoid being too controversial, but at the same time we try to be soundly biblical. The result is that we regularly challenge each other's opinions, and it leads to some great discussions over lunch! The important thing is that our little community has remained diverse in doctrine, yet unified in Christian fellowship, and has attracted many others who enjoy good teaching and theological discussion.

@Loves2HugItOut

9 ай бұрын

There are things we CAN unify on… the existence of God, we are saved by faith and not works, Bible inerrancy, morality. But I can not unify with a 5 point Calvinist congregation or 5 point Calvinist pastors and make it my home church. Trust me, I have some nuanced subtle differences with my pastor on spiritual gifts, eschatology, and osas… so I do not believe everyone has to believe EVERY SINGLE THING the same in order to fellowship and have unity… it would also be impossible to be 100% doctrinally united with every believer anyway (besides it’s not like I think my biblical understanding is completely perfect either… in fact there are a couple areas I actually am on the fence about and frankly my answer is “I don’t know” about some doctrines). But someone who is a full on Calvinist, does not have subtle differences from biblical Christianity because it effects how we are saved (huge deal), what the gospel is, and therefor effects evangelism and the great commission, what that means for humanity, how to view humanity, the lens you view the world an d every single verse of scripture, and is a direct attack on the actual character of God. I’m sorry I can not unify with that. I can unify with someone who has a complete different view than me on almost all the big debates we have under the orthodox Christian umbrella because non of those other areas affect the entirety of scripture, the gospel, the character of God, or view of humanity and evangelism like Calvinism does. A five point Calvinist I can be friends with, unify as a homeschool group with (if you leave all the calvinism out and not indoctrinate the minds of precious children!), and depending on the person I think they could be saved even as a 5 point Calvinist…. But I wouldn’t really do a Bible study with them because how can we really learn from each other when quite literally every verse of scripture is twisted and funneled in their mind through calvinism? Really this is an impossibility let alone if your pastor at your home church is a 5 point Calvinist then that would be utterly impossible to be a part of. Lastly, I tend to think the things we really need to be unified in spite of are relating to “preferences” or “personal convictions”. Our personal convictions and preferences (like which holidays to celebrate or not- things like should you celebrate Halloween, should Christian’s watch PG 13 movies, should Christian’s be drinking alcohol, should Christian’s get tattoos, worship style, should Christian mothers have full time jobs, etc. etc. things that are not in any way gospel issues but Christian’s have different PREFERENCES and CONVICTIONS about, Christian’s need to let all that stuff go amongst each other and be unified in the gospel and in the truth about the cross and who Jesus is. Calvinism is an entirely different beast from actual secondary issues.

I liked the way you presented your views and pointed to history and the Bible. I’d encourage James White to watch all your presentations in order before commenting.

It’s honestly a waste of time addressing James White’s Ad-Hominens, strawmans, etc

Great video, thank you 🙏.

I'm sorry, to be as kind as possible, I just can't listen to JW speak any longer. I tried again, but could not do it. I'm sure you responded with the same humility I've witnessed since I subscribed to your channel. Grace & peace

@18:40 "Arminianism is 'Calvinism light' ie 'Diet Calvinism' that is a great way to put it! 😃 I'm going to start using that! 99% percent of people will respond "Oh you are an Arminian" if you tell them you aren't a Calvinist.(The majority of them don't even know what Calvinism actually teaches) But then a true Calvinists will usually say you dont understand Calvinism if you say you left Calvinism. 😵‍💫

@DamonNomad82

9 ай бұрын

Most Calvinists go completely off the rails if you point out the simple historic fact that Jacob Arminius was a lifelong Calvinist...

Calvinism is an total perversion of the gospel. I don't like anything the reformers came up with at all. Especially the reformed stuff.

John Calvin just expounded on the teachings of Paul.

Thank you for this. I appreciate the way you handle this. JW seems belittling and a little sarcastic. I don't see faith as a work. I don't see that God owes me grace. Another thing I don't agree with is anecdotal stories that seem to be used to cast doubt.

I've been enjoying your videos and happy to have found your channel. As a current MDiv in Biblical Counseling student, all of my reading assignments/textbooks take an overtly Calvinistic position. I'm wondering if this has been your experience with counseling resources as well? Where are the non-Calvinistic resources for biblical counselors? If you're looking for future content ideas, I think it would be cool to see a video pointing out the differences in approaches to counseling someone from a Calvinist/non-Calvinist perspective!

@LivingChristian

8 ай бұрын

Yes in part. But I am still uncovering all the ways. Just recently learned something that I don’t think is correct involving fear and anxiety. Going to update my one counseling video on that topic at some point. Thanks for sharing!

Man, on one hand I love the sort of brotherly rivalry that White has with guys like Leighton Flowers (and now you:) but I also am reminded of 1 John 2:9-11. It's quite clear that we should be loving towards our brothers In Christ (and actually everybody), and sometimes there's this brashness or disrespect from White that leaves me wondering. In that sense I'll pray for Dr. White, and of course for this channel brother. You're an awesome addition to my Christian YT channels. I actually love a lot of what Apologia does, outside of their Calvinism sermons. Eat the meat, spit out the bones as they say

its interesting that you say calvinism is "logical" - only if you are a macarthurite... Reformed theology is a lot of word salad double speak that is contradictory. The only way it makes partial sense is when you are doing line by line reading and not stepping back to gain context.

44:20 re; mans inherent ability to 'believe' in literally everything 'BUT' the Gospel; The claim of Calvinism is not only that all men are 'born' unable to believe the Gospel apart from God's effectual intervention. It also entails that there are those whom God literally 'enables' to believe... but only temporarily. Then, just as effectually, causes them to abandon their profession of faith, because he never really loved them anyway.🤔 And these people suffer even greater punishment eternally for having 'tasted' what little grace he had allowed. Calvinists encourage people to worship that God who can't be trusted not to deceive you even as you are praying to him in the 'faith' you 'think' you have been given. And they only response they can muster is "it's a mystery". 🤯

Following scripture regardless of costs ..love it. I have a similar story. It gets easier!

I feel your heart towards the end when you discuss your former church. It's so hard trying to help Calvinists see other interpretations of their proof texts. Even if you successfully show them a certain text doesn't support what they thought it did, they tend to justify eisegeting their interpretation under the assumption that it's supported elsewhere. I've begun to wonder if it takes a Calvinist the time and effort to scrutinize every single proof text, putting off their typical interpretation in every instance and putting on a different interpretation before they'll be able to see it any differently...and the biggest hurdle I've come across is a lack of interest of Calvinists to go through that strenuous effort. Sadly. Frustratingly. Then when it ends in division, which you rightly point out is unbiblical, it's heartbreaking. I pray my husband and I don't end up in the same situation. We are currently able to have these disagreements in our church, but I wonder if the longer we stay and the more we serve we'll hit the "wrong" person's radar and asked to be silent or to leave.

@LivingChristian

9 ай бұрын

@adriannelea1 praying for you and your husband

It's Strange that Calvinist will only Claim "Former Calvinist" don't understand Calvinism AFTER they leave.. Ex Calvinist will have Believed and Taught The ideas of Calvinist for 10 Plus years. And NEVER once were they told they didn't understand. Its only when they leave.

The pomposity and prideful arrogance of James White leads him to the first deadly sin; that of pride. I am Catholic and as such most certainly not a Calvinist. Many Protestants are very wrong about what the Catholic Church teaches, such as when they contend that it teaches works based salvation, etc. However, I am very happy to discuss and debate with them. James White is another story. Often insulting, ad hominem, etc. I really enjoyed your review of Calvinism and will continue to follow your channel.

Sir, do not waste any more time on what James White has to say about your videos. What you have done is coherent, it is well presented, and it provides good Biblical structure and teaching. The reason he attacks the way you say what you say is because that's all he can do. And he knows it. Keep going, you're being a faithfull servant, doing a good job.

I’ve noticed outside of the Calvinistic lense it’s Calvinist who are making a mess of scripture. You have to jump through all these hoops and supposed church fathers to make understanding of their doctrines they hold to and to me from what I see it leaves less room for scripture to interpret itself

Mr Breda: Your work showing Christian grace and Biblical logic is so good and so important! Please DON’T make significant changes due to James White’s ad hominem attacks. I have noticed his tactic of spending several minutes throwing shade on his opponents to numb his audience while conducting an extended ad hominem attack. After his audience is numbed into believing his opponent (Mr. Breda) is a jumbled mess, then James will go into his own jumbled mess of an alleged refutation, which is simply a mixture of contempt, ad hominem, and Mumbo jumbo. I have never heard a coherent response from James White when he is addressing non-Augustinian (I.e. non-Arminian & non-Calvinist) Bible believers refutation of Calvinism.

James White response is an honor lol, even though I’m not Calvinist anymore. Love the guy!

When Dave Hunt came out with his anti Calvinism book:" What Love is This?",one of the popular criticisms of Calvinists was " you just don't understand Calvinism ". Infact,I don't know of single anti- Calvinist who hasn't been dismissed with this retort,by one Calvinist or another.

At about 1:28:00 you said “We are going to love, minister, and serve everyone but when we teach different aspects of the Bible we are going to communicate a few different positions on that.” It just came off to me like you’re saying there’s just a few _different_ as in minor differences in positions. Jason, I really get the deep DESIRE to believe that a 5 point Calvinist pastor and a non Calvinist pastor can coexist and lead a congregation together but I just think these differences are so BIG and effect literally ALL of scripture and even the GOSPEL that we just cannot pretend that it is possible to mix these beliefs. Trust me, I hope and even believe that there is a grace covering some of those in calvinism because only God knows the heart of each person and what is or is not being willfully rejected… but it is just not divisive to not be able to fellowship on an every Sunday basis under the teaching of Calvinism. I literally do not know the God that these Calvinist pastors speak of.

@ManassehJones

9 ай бұрын

You said "I hope and even believe that there is GRACE covering some of those in Calvinism because only God knows the heart of each person." God knows the hearts of those He predestined to be conformed by His effectual grace into the image of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, because He gave us a new heart. That conformity is an external chastening of God scourging against the rebellious old man whom He has received, but was buried with Christ after we were crucified with Him. We live by His faith as He increases our faith God gifted us with. If anyone needs grace, it's you Self Determinsts who reject the power of Gods effectual grace. But, unless He breaks you, it won't happen.

@truth7416

9 ай бұрын

Yes you are right. There should be no compromise to the desire to just get along. Calvinism is not just another denomination of Christianity, with a few unimportant differences. It is pretending to be a Christian denomination! It is a another gospel from the one all Christians first believed. It has a different god from the one we as Christians know and love. It is a Cult that should be purged from a Christians midst, the moment that it is discovered. Period! Truth in Love

@ManassehJones

9 ай бұрын

@truth7416 Uhm..being born again from above by the power and will of Gods effectual grace, MADE an entirely new creature with a new heart, new will, new desires by the power of the blood of Jesus Christ, is NOT "pretending to be a Christian denomination." Denominations are for the lost, not us elect sons of God. Jesus Christ is LORD, over the lost and the saved.

I love how you said “isn’t it odd that man can put wholehearted faith in false religion and gods, but in Calvinism it is impossible to put faith in the one God that truly matters”. Eye opening.

Mr. White states around 43:30 timestamp: "In other words man is dead in sin and incapable of doing what is pleasing to God - Romans chapter 8." These "other words" constitute a reword of Roman 8:8 which says, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." In other words, "in the flesh" means "total inability" and "cannot please God" means "cannot believe." The problem is "in other words" is that other words convey other meaning. A saint can displease God, as did Moses when he struck the rock when directed to speak to it and thus could not enter the promised land: "But with many of them God was NOT WELL PLEASED: for they were overthrown in the wilderness." An unsaved person, unable to be good enough to meet God's standard of righteousness, can please God in an individual temporal circumstance, as did Cornelius in the opening verses of Acts 10. Yet the entire narrative of the epistle to this point is that man lacks the righteousness that God requires because of sinfulness, that the red carpet to heaven is extended to no one on the basis of the good deeds they do, that is, the deeds of the law in Romans 3:20. This theme is extended into Romans 8:3 - "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh..." That word, "flesh," appears about one time per verse in the first dozen verses of Romans 8 and the Calvinist grabs hold of its use in verse 8 as a that-settles-everything proof text, context be damned. But the Christian has Christ's righteousness imputed by faith and that Christian is, is exhorted to not to live after the flesh (as per Romans 8:8) in verse 13: "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." 99% of our errors in interpreting the Bible could be obviated by reading the whole text as continuous, interconnected narrative, rather than a proof-texting sourcebook to legitimize spurious ideologies. The interconnected narrative of Romans 8 is that there is now no condemnation to those that are in Christ, so those that are in Christ should live like it, and be encouraged by the rhetorical question of "What shall separate us from the love of Christ?"