I am so glad to be living during the time of this great mind. I'm sure David Bentley Hart will be thought of as one of the finest theologians of the 21st Century

“For everyone will be salted with fire...” -St Mark 9:49

This is one of the better DBH interviews I've seen/heard. Thank you! Loved this: ~36 min Interviewer: "I'm gonna quote David Bentley Hart to you." DBH: "one of my favourite authors." Interviewer: "it's good stuff, you should read it."

I am enjoying watching/reading all of this "call back" to the foundation of my spiritual path 50 years ago! To many it may seem that I switched paths a number of times, but it's really a weave. The thread running through my lives (I have had many lives in this single birth!) has always been the same, then and now!

I am so relieved that other people see the despicableness of hell

Spiritual abuse of children. I held a little 7 year olds hand in a dark room, as the rest of the Sunday School watched the angels battle Satan and his minions with swords, casting them out of heaven ( from a very popular children’s bible cartoon series). The child got so scared we had to leave. My own son -different church- was told he would go to hell if he didn’t believe in Jesus. He couldn’t sleep and the fear engulfed him. He began washing himself obsessively and could never feel clean again. He carried this anxiety into adulthood. His fear of hell prevents him from seeing Jesus as a loving savior.

@pedrom8831

2 жыл бұрын

I’m so sorry to hear this. This is apparently the glory of God in full swing. I was told the same, but actually as a teenager, and it still troubles me profoundly to this day. I have no way of trusting god in this life, if one exists. I can only hope that he doesn’t, or that the hellsayers are wrong.

@helenjarvis7755

Жыл бұрын

@@pedrom8831 in my experience God is able to make a way where there seems to be no way. There is no fear in love and you are loved. Its not up to us so no pressure.

@elsiervo121

Жыл бұрын

​@pedrom8831 "I have no way of trusting in God in this life", if you are the one holding this door shut, then it goes beyond a Doctrinal issue; it's spiritual, which means there's much more to the matter than can be known by any one reading your statements. The third hope left our of your disjunction of hopefuls would be that you see that there is a way and see that way can be walked with someone who loves you beyond your minds capacity to comprend. In The Name Of Yeshua The Savoir and Redeemer may you let down your arms and be made new in essence and being, Amen!.

19:12 I bought into Calvinism for a long time but this exact issue struck me one day when it came to talking about a “good” God where it had nothing to do with what I understood goodness to be and what it means that God is good is so expansive that it basically means nothing

DBH is brilliant.

DBH has a brilliant mind, a gift from God. St Maximos the Confessor had a brilliant intellect, however he also had a great spiritual mind. As the saint says: Spiritual knowledge is greater than natural knowledge i.e. philosophy, logic and scientific thought. Also when you live in the spirit your thinking changes and you see the world through the eyes of faith.

This was outstanding! Both Peter & David really resonated collectively. As this gains momentum and clarity in the minds of Post -Evangelicals, I think it will be important to more firmly define what Universal Reconciliationists 'Do Not' believe'. A lot is being said and thrown around at the expense of consistency and it is important to solidify the key essentials. Cliched and shallow stereotypes of "Universalists" are being promoted by books such as "The Devils Redemption", which those who are of an 'Infernalist' mindset love to promote. I think Barth was hesitant in his Church Dogmatics to come right out and say that Universal Salvation was 'obligatory' of God, because of the anthropomorphic arrogance of such a proposition. However, he clearly saw, as did Gregory of Nyssa, that God's full circle of inclusive redemption was essentially boundless and not contingent upon our sense of justice..

Amazing interview!

20:30 is really interesting and perhaps the best part of the interview.

Great interview

I loved this. Interviewer is very intelligent as well :)

Hart should go on Joe Rogan's podcast.

@joshuaphilip7601

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed.. he needs to hear from some rational christians. His view of religion is very "fundamentalist"

@Biyer11

3 жыл бұрын

No. Rogan's podcast is boring and dumbed down.

@EastAsianCinemaHistory

3 жыл бұрын

Always thought this.

@tylerlynch2849

3 жыл бұрын

Ive always wanted to see Hart eviscerate Sam Harris

@carsonwall2400

3 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately Joe Rogan would have no clue what Hart was talking about.

DBH is so refreshing on so many levels but his expose of contemporary convert Eastern Orthodoxy is so prescient and so spot on. Most contemporary evangelical converts practice this weird dungeons and dragons , Voodo orthodoxy which no one seems the need to challenge. It is disturbing!!!!

Greetings!

Two of my theological heroes.

The DBH Comment on the NIV made my day. Thought I was being out of order disliking that version as much as I do. Its good to have a scholar backing up my opinion and decision to stop using Bible Gateway.

DBH isn’t completely my cup of tea. But, he does know how to accurately sum up Calvinism 🤷‍♂️

Thank God for David Bentley Hart. I hope that his book becomes a best seller that proves instrumental in rehabilitating Christianity. Perhaps we may yet see the Calvinist version fall out of favour, since it amounts to little more than: for God so hated the world that he sent his Son as a blood sacrifice to save the few while the great majority burn in hell for eternity so God can prove his sovereignty. This is a travesty of Christianity and constitutes spiritual abuse. When we ourselves are able to love the world we may finally be able to accept, perhaps even embrace, a loving God.

@MsDrSantana

4 жыл бұрын

Nice points. I like the "God so hated the world" exposing what many really think. And how could he love his Son if he required him to be a human sacrifice to appease his demand for justice for the sins of others? The idea of substitutionary atonement, God requiring his son Christ to be sacrificed to appease his demand for justice is abusive. Christ came as God to overcome death and sin for us because it would be an injustice not to provide a way out for us when we did not ask to be born here subject to the sinfulness of human nature. God's justice was his justice toward us, to save us from the injustice of leaving us behind, subject to death without a way out, not that God demanded His Son be punished in our place to satisfy his sadistic desire for justice. There are physical material reasons Christ needed to subject himself to death to overcome death for us all and we cannot yet understand why it works that way but it was God's goodness and mercy that motivated his victory over death not the abusive concept passed as gospel.

"Start from the presupposition that everyone else is insane." That there is some good advice. It reminds me of apologists who like to use the argument from morality against atheists. Well, yeah, I agree that our sense of morality presupposes God. But that very same sense of morality that they use to prove the existence of God also proves that the doctrine of ECT is evil.

Kinda strange seeing him in the video after only hearing his voice on podcasts

When are you guys going to having him next?

I was intrigued by the section of the interview discussing the allegorical reading of scripture. Does anybody know of any books that expound on this subject?

@foulmercy8095

Жыл бұрын

I hope I’m not to late my friend, but a man named Matthieu Pageau wrote a book called “Language of Creation”. It is the most systematic form of symbolism that I have come across. His brother Jonathan Pageau has a KZread channel where he talks about allegory as well.

@NoName-oy2tk

5 ай бұрын

I am just curious though. When they say to not take scripture literal. Are they saying don't take any of it literal or just recognize the difference between the literal parts and the allegorical? Was there a literal Jesus Christ? That is what I am wondering really. Because Atheists too don't take it like it is real either. I am not judging anybody, just wondering.

At 45:15 “All four minutes of it” 🤣🤣😂😂!!

He's so right here. I've thought this for some time, but lack DBH's gift for presenting the problem - that of analogy. The goodness presented by the infernalist God seems so far removed from my idea of goodness that worshipping him as such would render all of my moral intuitions absolutely worthless. I'd feel like somebody with a stiff smile, agreeing that the DPRK is democratic.

Be defiant, and start from the premise that everyone (subscribing to PSA) is insane 😂

@patristic Aokatastasis how would universalists interpret the part in Corinthians where Paul says he disciplines his body daily edt he he disqualified? It's the part where he talks of Christians being like runners or boxers except we run for an incorruptible crown. This seems to straightforwardly speak of some being disqualified from the resurrection. Does Hart deal with this in his NT translation

@DLCTX

4 жыл бұрын

Or vessels for wrath?

@braedonpoteat7345

4 жыл бұрын

@@DLCTX If you read through the argument that starts of chapter 8, in which he contemplates the existence of vessels of wrath, when it reaches it's conclusion in chapter 11 you find the conclusion is that there are no vessels of wrath.

@braedonpoteat7345

4 жыл бұрын

Christian Universalists believe in hell, as a state of being unable to enjoy the kingdom, and it is a very bad fate, albeit one with a purpose and end.

@callums6570

4 жыл бұрын

@@braedonpoteat7345 do you know how Hart deals with that in his translation? I find it a thorn for universalism

@braedonpoteat7345

4 жыл бұрын

@@callums6570 That's the same book in which Paul says that some people's works will pass through and be acceptable but others works will be burned away but they themselves will be saved as through fire. I imagine that's the fate he fears. Hart's translation doesn't have anything particular on that passage.

So how do we interpret Jesus separating the sheep from the goats?

@phaturtha216

4 жыл бұрын

The goats go to the fire, no problem. But the fire's purpose is to correct, purify renew and restore them/ us! Everything's the same, except the eternal fire is God's 'hunka hunka burnin love' that destroys the rubbish and gives life in abundance, not His basement bbq to torture ppl forever and a day.

@fromhell1980

4 жыл бұрын

Phat Urtha 😂 basement bbq love it

@patristicapokatastasis176

4 жыл бұрын

MrJaisum “For everyone will be salted with fire...” -St Mark 9:49

@origamitraveler7425

4 жыл бұрын

@@patristicapokatastasis176 Thank you for this reply! I have always been befuddled by Jesus' salt parables. This is a good new angle to return to Mark to!

@MikeBrown-bz1yi

4 жыл бұрын

MrJaisum They are nations not individuals.

20:40 it's almost a catch 22: in order to appreciate just how beautiful a notion apokatastasis is, you had to have learned and feared the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. 😆 Half-kidding, but still perhaps it's all part of the church's journey. This is such a fascinating topic/question either way. Though, not for newcomers IMHO.

I would really appreciate it if someone told me how Dr. Bentley comes to grips with Marc 9:44 (ὅπου ὁ σκώληξ αὐτῶν οὐ τελευτᾶι καὶ τὸ πῦρ οὐ σβέννυται). If this "worm" stands for the suffering of hell, as I believe it does, is it not clear that this involves a never-ending process (οr rather state?). Mark that it is a "worm" the text is talking about, and I think the metaphor does not admit of any benign allegory like "fire", which I guess could possibly switch from consuming and burning to warming and illuminating. I guess I will have to read the book, but I would nevertheless find a hint in advance very helpful! Thank you all!

@ragnarlothbrok2808

Жыл бұрын

The worm eats the flesh. We all will die to the flesh, hopefully while we are still alive.

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

I guess Jesus was talking about the literal worms in Gehenna and the literal fire of Gehenna of the literal corpses that were thrown down there. Nowadays Gehenna is a beautiful green valley with no corpses and no fire. That "ending" was the worse for a hebrew of those times because you didn't had a tomb or a name, you perished nameless. So it's a metaphor of how many people won't enter the New Jerusalem but remain without a Name outside as a corpse burning in shame and anger, seeing the Fathers entering and you being left outside. Definitely I see we both agree it's used as a parable. But the important part of Mark 9 is when Jesus says "For everyone shall be salted by fire, have peace therefore with one another". Salvific fire. That's what hell is about, and we all suffer it in some way.

@franciscafazzo3460

5 ай бұрын

The worm is in the garbage pit in gahanna

need a church that believes the real gospel in fl - this information needs to get out

@tonydangelo778

Ай бұрын

Same.

Please cf. kzread.info/dash/bejne/aIeHxMtvcZWWhrg.html

Loved this except for the Donald Trump comment, that was completely unnecessary

@bman5257

6 ай бұрын

Remember that for Hart, Hell means essentially Purgatory. To say Donald Trump on his way to heaven will need purgation is not all that crazy 😂.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. I pray 🙏 God will open your eyes and stop the madness heresy manufactured by the Devil! You must take Jesus at his word! 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

@DoctorMooye

Жыл бұрын

In none of those quotes does it say Hell is eternal, does it now? Bentley Hart doesn't deny neither the existence of Hell,nor its gruesome nature, only its function ( cleansing not retribution) and permanence. :)

@kennethlarsen2960

Жыл бұрын

1 Timothy 4 9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome 10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, 11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

@OperationReapSinners777

Жыл бұрын

@@kennethlarsen2960 Come on son! Why on God's earth would the disciples labour and suffer reproach, even face the prospect of death, if all people will be saved at the end! 1 Tim 4-9 clearly taking verses out of context! V 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils!!! 1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness!!! 1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe!!! 1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all!! 1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee! Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD.Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

@OperationReapSinners777

Жыл бұрын

@@pedrom8831 The scriptures I've posted speaks doom for Sinners, and not for the Saints! 1Pe 4:17 PEDRO M For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

@OperationReapSinners777

Жыл бұрын

@@DoctorMooye Why are you mentioning hell? I don't believe in hell where Satan is burning people with a pitchfork! Hell is a place of sleep! Jesus absolutely speaks serious consequences, sinners will PERISH! 1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. I pray 🙏 God will open your eyes and stop the madness heresy manufactured by the Devil! You must take Jesus at his word! 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

16:23 Terms rendered equivocal. 28:35 bookmark

So hell really exists, but you won’t be stuck there forever? For all the talk about spiritual child abuse, this concept seems to be all but one step removed.

@declanmoore6489

4 жыл бұрын

actuary 1776 wut ?

@patristicapokatastasis176

4 жыл бұрын

«It was necessary to conceal these things and not bring them out into the open - but the heretics force us to bring out in public things that should remain hidden -, for these things are kept covered as a benefit to those who are still “little children” [cf. 1 Cor 3:1] according to the age of their soul and who need the fear of teachers. They need to be chastised by threats and terrors in order to be able to attain healing. Thus by means of bitter remedies they may one day desist from the wounds of sins. For the mysteries of God are always covered by veils on account of the hearers who are children. “How great is the abundance of your sweetness, O Lord, which you have hidden from those who fear you!” (Psalm 30:19 LXX/31:19], The God of the law and the prophets hides the multitude of his goodness not from those who love him but from those who fear him. For the latter are little children. They are incapable of learning to their own profit that they are loved by the Father, lest they be set loose and despise the goodness of God [cf. Rom 2:4].» -Origenes Adamantios [Homily 1, On Ezekiel]

@1234567mrbob

4 жыл бұрын

If "hell" exists as a penalty for wrongdoing I'm ok with it as long as, 1) it's temporary, 2) people aren't tortured there, 3) the punishment is appropriate for the wrongdoing. A judge wouldn't give a DUI offender and a rapist the same sentence. God, under this belief system, wouldn't punish a common sinner as much as he would, say, Hitler.

@phaturtha216

4 жыл бұрын

@@1234567mrbob Unless the DUI offender IS the rapist! But seriously, the Bible is saturated with God's emphasis on condign justice - He hates an unequal measure, an eye for an eye (NB old school) as ye sow so shall ye reap, and so on. Moreover, He's gracious and merciful. In fact God designed our sense of proportionality and fairness, so for ppl to think that He'd punish finite sins infinitely is really a classic devil's blue ribbon lie. Well done Lucifer, very droll, but the game is up. Why do you think the devil's now sent the beast with wrath? BECAUSE HE KNOWS HIS TIME IS SHORT!

@patristicapokatastasis176

4 жыл бұрын

actuary 1776 check: www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2019/20-december/faith/faith-features/time-s-up-for-torment

I'm not a Christian and have no interest in becoming one, but if your doctrine and holy books are so abstruse that it takes a brilliant scholar and linguist to understand them, and that ignorant hoi polloi like me have to accept their blase erudite instruction, I can't see why anybody'd even try.

@claytoncooney2827

Жыл бұрын

Well you don’t know what you don’t know

@rdaleyj1

Жыл бұрын

Jethro don't worry man becuz if you haven't come to Christ then you probably weren't called to this lifestyle, but still and all, God is saving those who are called in this age and will continue extending his arm of salvation after the great white throne of judgment and into the new Earth. God has the true no man left behind policy😊

@rdaleyj1

Жыл бұрын

However knowing that God will eventually save his whole creation, I would certainly give God a big shout of thanksgiving for his work for us through Jesus.

@PHlLEUS

Жыл бұрын

Stop with this cringing and sinister self-debasement. Why say 'ignorant hoi polloi like me', when you can simply remedy any supposed defect through study? I'm not fooled by such repulsive tactics, you're a rational human being and an adult. Come to the table equipped with the right implements, or leave and come back when you do. Reality doesn't reveal its secrets to the lazy and wilfully ignorant. If a quantum physicist were to speak in complicated academic language, would you whinge and cry and say that physics must submit to your ineptitude? Grow up.

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

You are smarter than you think, and human flesh is dumber as well. But smart and dumb are useless concepts when it comes to God, there's only humility and patience. God will show you He is a trinity, and He is Universalist only if you humble yourslef. You are right, religion has made it so hard that is why Jesus preached so hard on these people. Here you have the verses you ask for and Christianity willingly avoids: "Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came //to all men//, resulting in justification of life." Rom5:18 They are not faithful to scripture: "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things COMMAND AND TEACH."1Tim4:9-11 THEY JUST DON'T COMMAND AND TEACH THIS, BECAUSE THEY ARE UNFAITHFUL, BUT AT LEAST THEY TRY, THEY ARE HUMAN. Paul wrote that at the end of his life by the way, exhorting Timothy to look for fair and sane doctrine, which what you asked for. ------------------- Another fair point is God literally created this world as test/first-hell, which Christianity denies. That is why He won't give you the answers before you make your test: "Where is the "scribe", where is the "wise", hasn't God made foolish the Wisdom of this age(Eon)? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe" 1Co1:20 YOU ARE NOT GIVEN THE ANSWER BY DUMB THEOLOGIANS AKA PARROTS 🦜🦜🦜 I HOPE YOU UNDERSTOOD WHY... It's a test...

Dr. Hart’s presuppositions are: that scripture is a mythic analogy that points to the truth, the patristic fathers are supreme guides, and modern scholar snobbery. All these factors cause me to second guess much of what he says.

@nevbillett7554

4 жыл бұрын

Which means you don't know whether he is right or wrong

@youngpilgrim5

4 жыл бұрын

He argues from the scriptures for a coherent, consistent reading.

@brianstokes4065

4 жыл бұрын

Christopher J His main argument is based on the appeal to pity. He brags about having/being such a superior Greek scholar, as if he is the only one that can read/translate NT Greek (if not in this video - he does it in other videos). I read his book and listened to several lectures. I remain unimpressed with his arguments. Peter Hiett gives a more consistent argument from scripture on this subject.

@brianstokes4065

2 жыл бұрын

@@chanting_germ. you must have committed the genetic fallacy. 😎

"There must be a hell,Hillary Clinton has to have a place to go when she dies."......best thing said in the interview.

@RMT192

4 жыл бұрын

He said Trump. Lier.

@traceyedson9652

4 жыл бұрын

Dildo Dave it’s called humor. As DBH was being in that rather arrogant way.

@djm.326

4 жыл бұрын

@@traceyedson9652 It was kind of out of Left Field when DBH said that wasn't it? Although I think his message overall was interesting.

@carsonwall2400

3 жыл бұрын

@@djm.326 Well the existence of Donald Trump is one of the strongest arguments for an eternal hell, so it had to be addressed

@djm.326

2 жыл бұрын

@@carsonwall2400 That comment itself alluding to a human being in this case Donald Trump...is a hellish comment and mean. If you really think about it, honestly your comment is over the top.

"There must be a hell, Donald Trump has to have a place to go when he dies."......best thing said in the interview.

@2richjohnson

2 жыл бұрын

I think the man is brilliant but his politics are horrible.

@itzakehrenberg3449

Жыл бұрын

@@chanting_germ. Wow, you really are a programmed ignoramus, eh? Trump is the sole patriot among a collection of criminals, you piece of subhuman garbage.

@itzakehrenberg3449

Жыл бұрын

Only if you are a total imbecile.

@michaell1425

Жыл бұрын

Actually it was the worst part. The comment was childish. And I don't like Trump.