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@enderwarlord3226

2 жыл бұрын

Man, you love bacon, don't you?

The velocity at which I eat bacon is the same as the land speed velocity of an unladen swallow

@CaseyWilkesmusic

2 жыл бұрын

African or European swallow?

Railroading is a commonly misused term and often conflated with taking away player agency. You can take away player agency simply by saying no, but that is not railroading. Railroading is forcing the players to solve problems one way and not allowing them to come up with their own ideas. Linear adventures are not railroading any more than a menu forces you to eat something you don't want.

@sleepinggiant4062

2 жыл бұрын

@@Commonwealth_Of_Pennsylvania - Correct, the menu doesn't force you, that's my point (menus don't railroad you, linear adventures don't either). I've heard it many places that people think linear adventures force the players to do that one thing (other D&D youtube channels, GiTP, Enworld, etc.). Like you said, it isn't railroading. I'm not saying a DM railroading is common or misused. I'm saying the term is. And like you said, people frequently cry "railroading" when it wasn't. Sounds like we are in agreement on all points. :)

@deathless_actual4936

2 жыл бұрын

I was going to make a comment essentially saying just this, but this is perfect so I can just agree with this instead. As a DM and a player, I don’t see the dm expecting players to engage in the adventures planned by the dm as railroading. I see railroading as the players not having the freedom to solve or engage with those adventures in ways that they choose, especially in ways not originally intended by the dm. An example I’ve played before being my party had to infiltrate a high class party to find a magic key needed for a quest. The key ended up being imbedded in a crystal that was part of the chandelier on the ceiling of the ballroom. Having to go to this event was not railroading, it was necessary for the story. We chose to go there. Having to deal an obscene amount of damage (somewhere in the ballpark of 1500 damage) to the chandelier itself before it could be retracted into a closing hole in the ceiling was railroading. Especially when the first rounds were spent trying and failing due to: the retracting chain, winch, and closing doors are all made of ‘bedrockium’ and per the dm completely impervious to all damage, the strength of the winch was enough to still dislodge an immovable rod without fail, the winch was be operated autonomously and couldn’t be turned off, and various other excuses why seeming clever ideas would have no effect to stopping the chandelier from escaping and us just needing to spam attack and use up all our spell slots to slog away at this inanimate objects hit points. Most definitely a railroad, all because our dm simply wanted us out of spell slots for the combat encounter that triggered only after the chandelier broke.

@EpicWinNoob

Жыл бұрын

Railroads take away player agency by making their entire existence meaningless Linear games take away player agency, only really with the scope of adventures. Overall, some player agency being removed isn't bad unless it's overstepping and being like "your idea of chill but your character does this because the logical solution that has no flaws, backfired so whoops"

@sleepinggiant4062

Жыл бұрын

​@@EpicWinNoob - Taking away player agency (telling them no) is not railroading, it's part of running the game (making rulings as the DM). Linear games are not railroading unless the DM frequently forces you to solve challenges their way and only their way. It has nothing to do with prepared content.

@wanderdragon1075

Жыл бұрын

Linear adventures can definitely be construed as railroading. I think much of this is based on context though. The most important thing a DM needs is player buy in, and that requires a good pitch that you then deliver on. If you pitch a game as sandbox and then run it in a linear fashion, that would easily be construed as railroading by your players. I don’t think they’d be wrong to do so either. But if you pitch a specific plot, and they agree to follow it, then keeping them on track isn’t railroading. I’ve noticed when running games that some players actually prefer a bit more linear games, choice shock being what it is. But some resent not having the freedom to explore. It can be a little nebulous a term, but I think the problem can generally be cleared up with actual conversation.

Luke: "What kind of game master would dare murderise your character after you've had custom art commissioned for them." Me: "Only a Scoundrel, a murderous sadist, a psyc..." Luke: "Yeah, I would"

@rcrc9943

2 жыл бұрын

I did that once to a gm he just got art commissioned for a special orc npc instead of wasteing a spell slot to heal him I just healed checked and failed the npc died gm was sad

@mstrswrdsmn21

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't bother wasting the money, in that case.

@rcrc9943

2 жыл бұрын

@@mstrswrdsmn21 to be fair I didn’t know this was a commissioned piece I just thought he got it somewhere online lol

@mstrswrdsmn21

2 жыл бұрын

@@rcrc9943 oh, I wasn't directing my comment at you specifically. I apologize if it came off that way. I was responding to the original comment, where they quoted the video directly.

About those "secret plot hooks", during our last session my players kinda missed one in a pretty anticlimactic way... they found an underground chapel, found how to activate the magic runes on the door, solved the riddle to disarm the obvious magic trap on said door and then... decided not to open the coffin they found behind it and just left the chapel ^^

@kgoblin5084

2 жыл бұрын

That's not exactly a missed 'secret' at that point LOL. One thing to remember is player action/in-action can have consequences though... for example if said coffin contains an undead/spirit presence of some kind... it can still act even though it was left behind. The players undid just enough of the ancient magical seal that now the being inside can start to influence the world again. Alternatively, if you were expecting them to do an Indiana Jones & follow a clue held in the withered grasp of the corpse inside to the fabled city of Blah... maybe have a rival adventuring party or greedy noble come after them, open the damned coffin... and use that as the new plot hook. The lesson here might be to give any given plot more than 1 hook :D

@Sephiroth517

2 жыл бұрын

@@kgoblin5084 The point was more about HOW they missed it not just that they missed it. Luckily wasn't a hook for their very next adventure but for another down the line, I'll have other opportunities to hook them...

@dsoul1305

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, that is rough. Did you managed to grasp the reason why they decided not to open the coffin? It was fear of the content?

@robertmooberry725

2 жыл бұрын

Mine went through an entire dungeon without searching for secret doors. They rescued a Dwarven Fighter who asked for a share of the loot to help them. They refused but hired him to do some stone work on their keep. After missing an important section of dungeon he offered for a hefty fee to show them something important that they had missed. Hopefully the loot that they handed over will remind them to search for secret doors.

@alchouinard6090

2 жыл бұрын

@@kgoblin5084 that is railroading. The players chose to not mess with the coffin. If you force them to deal with it anyway, you are taking away their agency.

As a sandbox enthusiast, I usually have no fewer than a dozen or so hooks ready to go - particularly at the start of a campagn. From there things just grow, and new adventure hooks just appear organically, even when I don't intentionally put them in. It's a glorious thing to behold!

I will straight up ask players, "what do you think your characters want to do next?" in certain situations. Sometimes I will want them to follow the "main story", but other times I want them to explore and have fun with it. Either way I offer choices, thankfully my players respect them and normally bite down onto any hooks I throw out there.

@alexisross9343

2 жыл бұрын

I started my last session by asking everyone a different personal question based on how their characters would feel about the story thus far. "Where do you think he went, why?" "How do you feel about the party after the last prophecy?" "What does X remember about the quest? Discuss their memories" The party seemed to be a lot more interested once I forced it to be personal to recap. I uh, also very much say "Where do you want to go next?" Or "What kind of thing do you want to have happen and I can stitch the desire together"

I had a DM who, at the end of the sesh, would stait up debrief us. What are your characters thinking? what did you like? what did you hate? what do you want to do next? etc. he knocked that campaign out of the park by precisely giving us exactly what we wanted and the exact opposite. either way it was either huge victory or crushing defeat. it was a beautiful rollercoaster.

Ah, plothooks. I occasionally give my PCs strange dreams in the night. The former ship mage dreaming that he's on the deck of the ship he fell overboard from, and seeing the stars above and below the ship... and a tall, purple helmsman with tentacles on its face telling him he's no longer on the ship's manifest, and he's not supposed to be there. I mean, it wasn't a plot hook *then*, but it gave me a few minutes for an emergency bathroom break, and the group spent the next half an hour discussing the dream and extrapolating one hell of a plot hook from it, and you can bet your DMing hiney I made a few notes, because the stuff they came up with was glorious. ;)

My first game ever was with a new dm. No one at the table wanted to follow the plot hooks, only to explore the large map. The game didn’t last two months. Somehow we complained there was no story while sabotaging it. The Dm never said anything and couldn’t do it one day. 3 years later, I understand how horrible we were and the mistake the Dm did.

@TheKillaShow

2 жыл бұрын

The mistake the DM did?

@silenthunder52

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheKillaShow that the DM never said anything about their behaviour

@soMeRandoM670

11 ай бұрын

​@@silenthunder52Now as an experienced dm, i wouldn't mind that atm. I figured out how do better plot hook, don't be afraid to skip time till something happens. Atm my entire campaign was running been open world and they, decided to fight bbeg a lich at level 1 and at level 8 killed it. He was meant be a backdrop a scene that sets the tone of fight. He left having zombies fight pcs. The pcs decided take on a guy prophesied to bring about end of the world. Now what i am going do now is. An lich dragon going take the corpses of fight and make an army, Some mind flayers going appear out portal player made. Now, each one rather minimal not much planned. And start using slyflorish building situation.

I've been in a campaign with nebulous to no plot hooks and it was frustrating, especially because we were working toward a specific goal with no idea how to accomplish it. Meanwhile, the villains worked in the background to undo everything we did, and they changed their plans in reaction to us. It kind of fizzled out and we resolved everything with an epilogue.

I just do a mild sandbox and my players know that they can ask for a plothook recap when they are ready to take on a job if they can't decide

Seed plot hooks as soon as possible and give them time to mature. I let my players find magic item that they don't know what they do, meet NPCs who seem vaguely important and find bits of information that are intriguing but beg for more unanswered questions. Let those things sit for a while, for several game sessions, before they mature and ripen into something awesome/important/epic, etc. You were likely disappointed at the start of Rise of Skywalker when the Emperor was announced and Rey manifested Sith powers. There was NO foreshadowing or even the faintest hint that these things would come into play. It felt like a cheap "throw-in" plot hook in an attempt to make it a richer, deeper story. But because nothing was foreshadowed, it became a convenient, shallow plot point instead. I gave my players a bell made of solid ruby, a flawed gem that was claimed to be a wizard's gem, an NPC that visits only one player at night and gives her powers, a pouch of 5 acorns that was found hidden in an ancient tomb, etc. Even I don't yet know what they all do. I wait a session or two and try to think of something really cool or epic that that thing is/can do that will mesh into the story line. So much the better if you make these things become important BECAUSE of your players decisions. Plant hooks early, let them grow, and harvest them at the right moment. Oh, yeah...and, bacon!

I tried writing a sandbox adventure, but my players kind of floundered with the vague objective I gave them. After a few sessions, I put it on hiatus and immediately began rewriting a lot of it. I kept the encounters, the story, etc. but I started shifting it so that the plot options were more obvious.

@Seority

2 жыл бұрын

Good on ya for trying

@PKP316

2 жыл бұрын

I ran into this same issue. Was doing a hexcrawl with a bunch of large plots going on. After a few sessions that kind of fell flat we went back to linear with some hexcrawl elements.

@22steve5150

2 жыл бұрын

when it comes to sandbox stuff like that, games like Apocalypse World are probably a lot better than D&D, the system is so simple and easy that GMs can make up stuff on the fly with relative ease, however as fun as games like that are for "open sandbox" players, those are also games where player characters have remarkably short lives before either being killed or leveling up to the point where they need to be automatically retired and replaced by a new character.

@tabletopgamingwithwolfphototec

2 жыл бұрын

This is normal. The sandbox thing is only really popular in forums. Not so much in actual play.

@MonkeyJedi99

2 жыл бұрын

In a RL sandbox, the sandbox is boring, until you put some toys in it. And those toys will influence the type of play that happens in the sandbox. Put in a tonka excavator, and the sandbox becomes a construction site. Put in a bucket and sandcastles may be erected. Put in some cars and it's a dirt racing track... - I am playing in a campaign right now that has slid into "empty sandbox" territory, and we need to guide the DM into dropping in some toys (a.k.a. plot hooks)

Knowing your players goes a long way too. for example, my players are heavy role players and like to have discussions with each other and NPCs in character. So I can improve a lot of planning with them knowing that it will be a heavy role play session. I’ve also played in games where the party is always rushing to the next objective, so as the DM, it’d probably be beneficial to prep more encounters.

RAILROADERRR!

@jordanw2741

2 жыл бұрын

*Furious comment about how Luke is a very horrible man*

@shinmalsaza

2 жыл бұрын

And gives horrible advice

@valeriodestefano3784

2 жыл бұрын

@@jordanw2741 let's let KZread know that he completly sucks!

@thestakesauce5891

2 ай бұрын

This is bad advice.

For me, I've always felt like the key is to have the players decide "for themselves" to go on the linear plot hook. IE: the group gets a message out of the blue where player A's family is in trouble, or owes money, or someone is missing, so they decide to rush off to save their family member. The "railroad" has started based on a character desire to save a family member.

@sleepinggiant4062

2 жыл бұрын

That's not a railroad. That's an option for the player to take, and how they solve the problem is up to them. When the DM takes away player choice and says the problem can only be solved this way, that is a railroad.

You’re channel has some of the most useful advice I’ve ever received as a dm.

So I've played in a number of open world campaigns or campaign arcs and, honestly, I haven't found them as fun as people make them out to be. They feel disjointed and random. Like after doing so many random things the DM is suddenly ready to move onto some other random reason we did all the things. Now if it made any sense. For my current campaign my main plot line is linear, however I have a very open world city scape for the players to explore with a lot of different things they can do and more random adventures they can go out that are unrelated for the most part unrelated to the main campaign. I constantly update those different things based on what the players enjoyed, where they progressed within the city, and just random ideas they strike my fancy. It has made for a very enjoyable campaign as the players have spent about half their time enjoying the open world of the city versus progressing the main storyline. I think the players are pleased and that's the best reward for me.

@dondumitru7093

2 жыл бұрын

My overall campaign seems to be working out to having one big bad per Tier of Play - Local Heroes lvl 1-4, Heroes of the Realm lvl 5-10, Masters of the Realm lvl 11-17, and Masters of the World lvl 17-20. (The players are currently wrapping up Tier 2, so we'll see how well I stick to the scheme.) So within each tier of play, they are doing a couple of arcs culminating in an arc that toasts the bad, and they also do a few side adventures that are either cultural flavor or are them pursuing some personal "We want an airship!" / "We need a new base in this region!" kind of goal. And the side cultural missions are an opportunity to seed things that lead into the big bad in the next tier.

@thecreator625

2 жыл бұрын

That depends heavily on the DM. Not everyone knows how to tell a coherent story. I've both played with people who are bad at improvising and storytelling as well with those who do.

I could see the sneekey plot hook working for an optional side-quest, or a puzzle to unlock some bonus treature.

"different people are motivated by different things" is a sentence that DMs could all spend a lot of time thinking about

Speaking of making sure the players enjoy the plot hook. My husband was part of a game where the king that 2as trying to comission the PCs was rude and demeaning, so they declined to work for him. The DM then had to come up with a different way to send them on the adventure on the fly.

One trick I've contemplated is to take a postit and write "just take the effing plot hook!" and secretly hand it to one player. My hope is that they'll lead the other players.

Seth Skorkowsky, "Why Theme Campaigns Rock (and 13th Warriors Suck) - Running RPGs" If you establish a campaign theme with your players (thru the social contract ...) you can achieve tighter cohesion that pins the players to the plot hooks better.

@MonkeyJedi99

2 жыл бұрын

That was a very good video!

I remember, back in the 80s when I started, I was running an exploration game and the players either didn't get or ignored the plot hooks, I still claim intentionally because one plot hook was a gigantic erratic boulder with a gaping entrance, including carved steps and the carved stripture around "you who enter ..." And they still passed it by, talking about where and what the adventure might be. They claimed for years to just not have gotten the hint. Anyways, I grew so feed up with them that, at a crossroads in the forest, I placed a sign literally saying "Adventure - this way". With all of the players form those days this has become a favourite phrase.

When I started out playing TTRPGs we played in only pre-written linear (and often even railroad) adventures, and we often had to find "all the things" to solve the adventure. Cue me in my first ever not linear adventure getting anxiety from thinking we had to follow every plot hook because I thought they were linked and we needed all of them resolved or we might "fail the adventure". It's very hard to let go of that mindset ngl.

I agree as a player that linear campaigns are more enjoyable in my opinion. I feel that in an open world campaign most dms fail to give good narrative descriptions and the combat encounters are usually very bland. Good video

@n.l.g.6401

2 жыл бұрын

Having run and played in both, I think it really depends on getting the right mix of people at the table. A successful sandbox needs not only a really flexible, fast-thinking GM, but players with a lot of agency and desire to make things happen in the world. Meanwhile, linear campaigns are better served by GMs who like to meticulously plan things out and players who are more reactive in their playstyle. Like, I really suffer in linear campaigns because I feel like I can't do the things I want to do without ruining the GM's hard work, and as a GM I need the breathing room offered by an open world to stay interested in what I'm doing. Meanwhile, some of my friends are the opposite: they absolutely need the framework of an over-arching story to keep them moving, or require the narrow focus of a linear game to bring out their GMing chops. It's also system-dependent, too: 5e and Pathfinder both kind of suck as sandbox systems--they're made to work with published, linear adventures--while other games like Worlds Without Number are built with a sandbox in mind. The most successful campaigns are the ones where the strengths and expectations of the players, GM, and system all line up.

Clear directions. If you give them as plot hooks, great. Or just tell your players out of game: “I got an adventure for you. You’ll explore the deep dark cave because it is there.” If you got a player whose character needs more motivation, well, this is the adventure, and that is the door, choose the option that is more fun for you.

Instead of seeing an Open world Sandbox as a style where players don't experience well structured Adventures, we (DMs) should see it as a home for unexpected adventures. Linear Segments, railroads, and open gaming all belong in a well run open world sandbox, basically moments of limited or forced choice or option can make the agency of the open world more precious. The players don't know what's out there, and so don't know when we put something in front of them. We can pepper their path with well structured content, without taking away that sense of control that they have in choosing their direction. We can even do this without burning our brains at 120%, if we have a content stable prepared for use when they don't bite the hook. Also, great Video... one of the better ones I think.

I tend to like giving my players multiple options they can decide in what order to do them or there are multiple ways to handle whatever the current issue is through npc discussions.

Loving the more frequent uploads. Enjoy the newfound freedom Luke!

As a model railroad enthusiast and DM I think everyone has a horrible misconception of railroads. There are so many spurs and layout designs from point to point, a figure eight and even the simple oval. However you design your railroad always work in plenty of spurs to deliver and collect your loads.

@nonya9120

2 жыл бұрын

Amen

the last campaign I ran I actually made 3 separate plot hooks that I didn't really specify. I was worried that, knowing who my players are and just how crazy they might potentially be, I wanted to be sure that they wouldn't end up completely breaking the campaign luckily though, they didn't surprisingly enough. not only that, but they ended up going for one of the better plot hooks I made out of the 3, I won't mention what it was since I plan on hopefully rerunning the campaign with different people, but I was surprised with how well the plot hook worked.

In my experience good mix of sandbos and linear adventures is really good. Sometimes there is only one way.

I'm glad I saw this video before I made some of these mistakes in my upcoming game!!!

Great recommendations. Thank you. One trick I use is to have several (2-3) adventures 90% fleshed out and just missing the big bad and reasons to go there. Then if the players go off in an unexpected direction I add a little filler and start down one of these side quests. I plug in one of the mid level bosses and clues from the original campaign to send the players back to the original quest and move the story in the originally planned direction. If done right the player think they are on a completely different adventure and yet are slowing getting back to the main story. Also provides the chance to give exp. & a little loot to help the party along. This said I normally set up the campaign with 1-2 overarching plots with at least 8-9 chapters that build together, so tying everything back normally works. Hope this helps.

Enjoyable outlook! Take care

Again, thank you very much. For now, i'm not a bad newbie DM according to your advices. 2 sessions and proud of myself because my campaign is subscribing to all those points. Even more proud because i didn't even played it as a PC. before. Though i had the immense luck to be coached by a veteran player which is 80% of my success.

Started a campaign with 3 new players, one experienced player and me, first time dm and also still newbie in a city that turned undead, so they gotta stop the necromancer to stay alive and leave the city. I let them explore the city first completely freely and then when the necromancy hit, a knight gave them 4 options to look for clues of where the necromancer is hiding. Each point gives them more clues on how to progress, which they could theoretically complete with one location or go to each one to find out more. So far i didnt have to force them to do anything yet and accommodated them on everything they wanted to do, so i guess its going fine. Once they have defeated the necromancer, i'll ask them which region they would like to visit next, where they gain a piece to the puzzle each until they know how to kill the big bad that is threatening to take them out. Really excited to see where they will go

After 25 years DMing, I improv all my sessions. It can work. You just have to have players who want to contribute and have fun. Adventures last 90 minutes top and dice adjudicate all. Very OSR improv, though we play Traveller, CoC, 7 Seas and Blades in the Dark like that too.

I found that I do like to foreshadow plot hooks that I intend to come up later. But I have also found that you have to make it clear that it is only a foreshadowing if what's to come, otherwise they can get confused as to what they're supposed to do right now.

Mmm bacon 🥓 Good tips I use these too Using PCs backstories is a good ploy hook for sure I’ve been linking adventures for years now.

Great stuff friend 👏 👍

Your help allowed me to try some amazing rural bacons. i was eating them in velocity of roughly 20cm^3/30s

I was trying to work my sister's backstory into the campaign, so I gave her TWO plothooks, and she blew right past both of them. Now,t he party is in Barovia, so... I told her, "I DID have something special planned for you, but you blew right past it. Twice. So, I have to come up with something else, entirely. So, don't expect the other thing, anymore." If she thinks back, and says, "Hey! That was a plot hook!" it will not even matter, anymore. Yes, definitely be CLEAR. Subtlety only works on a chosen few.

Great video! Thanks, Luke, despite the trolls blasting you😂

Geezer here... Yep, yep and in agreement. Great vid. For myself the goal as a "DM", I seek to design what many would call a sandbox. Open world with multiple plot hooks on the table. Wander aimlessly, I have found some groups really enjoy a session of random encounters. A entire session can revolve about " pick the plot hook." Which many youngsters call session zero. Most however need and more importantly need a clear goal from the start. In short, if they go to the station, get a ticket, willingly board the train.... Call it a railroad if you like. Gaming on.

Awesome!! Thanks

Every single time I give my players an option to do whatever they want they don't do anything. I crafted an entire city setting as one of their stops and there are so many opportunities for side missions main plot missions and I've even given them plenty of hints of things to pursue and they do not catch onto it. I have literally said that there is a pin board with a bunch of wanted posters and requests and they still didn't do anything with that. I love that there is this amazing fantasy world with freaking dragons and six-headed Eldritch horrors and when I legitimately ask them what would you like to do you can do anything you want they give me blank stares. So I have to railroad them. Buy a sheer coincidence someone asks them to do something that is important to the plot or one of their own backstories.

I Had a game just end where the DM was shocked in the direction we went in the last session. When after 4 and a 1/2 hours of play and only 3 dice rolls the whole session we went with the 1 clue he had given us. After the session when he said he had planned for it to go a completely different direction, we ALL told him that after 2 sessions and probably 6+ hours of play that was literally the only path he had offered our "Characters" in game. At the table I was the only player with experience in Fae based adventures and I was playing a 8 intelligence Barbarian so not exactly going to be offering a lot of advice in character.

It is funny how he recognises that railroading and sandboxes are not a dichotomy, and yet he fails to that plot hoots and random encounters are not also just a false dichotomy. I mean he even talks about motivations first and still fails to see how that could be used in session zero to have a character driven game that doesn't need plot hooks but leaves the players in the driver seat based on their characters aspirations and goals they set before the game.

@kgoblin5084

2 жыл бұрын

"and yet he fails to that plot hoots and random encounters are not also just a false dichotomy." Maybe because they AREN'T a false dichotomy... 1 is a start/entry point to a chain of pre-planned content & plot, the other is an isolated randomly generated event. Those are 2 different things. Can you arrange & link multiple isolated random events into a coherent whole? Of course! But that requires *improvising*, & as covered in the video improvising has potential problems for the GM. Not everyone is good at pulling things from their butt on the fly, & even if they are they don't necessarily enjoy doing it. Nor are random events *guaranteed* to appeal to character aspirations, whereas consciously designed plot hooks are. You are also extremely naïve if you think all or even most players will have clear enough character motivations (not to mention knowledge of the game world) to be fully self-driving. And if they are, they're likely at odds with one another (splitting the party), or 1 or 2 personalities are overwhelming everyone else. And of course, the GM is going to be in high effort improvisation mode all the damn time as well. And some narrative elements are next to impossible to be able to be introduced from true random encounters... nobody is going to end up searching for the lost city of Blah from just a random goblin attack... ditto any kind of conspiracy. The best we could hope for is happening to roll up a whole bunch of goblin attacks, which leads the players to suspect something strange is going on, & you ex-post-facto invent a conspiracy that is employing goblin bandits... at which point you're no longer really using random events but rather are planning content out from a random seed. There is a difference between planned & random content, each has it's strengths & weaknesses... and they are best used simultaneously And finally... why the focus on session zero? This is something you should be doing throughout the campaign

@morrigankasa570

11 ай бұрын

I unfortunately don't have a group to play with:( However, I have created 6 different lvl 1 characters in case I found a group. All 6 characters have at least 2 page backstories with reasons for becoming Adventurers as well as potential plot hooks so if this "theoretical" DM doesn't care/use those backstories to understand the character(s) then that's their fault.

Most of the games I've seen fall apart revolve around a failed Social Contract: The DM presents an adventure/hook and the players don't follow it. Often they blame the DM for making it sound too hard, too easy, has too little loot (how do they know?!), "not interesting to me." At the core of all these gripes is the assumption that the DM doesn't have a good adventure, and that they don't trust the DM to make a good adventure. I've seen this in new players, and people who have played for 40 years. Game groups that don't trust their DM fall to pieces. It isn't railroading. Railroading is taking over the character.

😊👍 More awesome advice.

This is good advice, this is very good advice and you should be proud. "Not a railroader."

When my DM prepares stuff ahead it tends to be boring and limiting, when he's forced to improvise the game is more likely to get fun...

Yes it's always good to have some plot hooks prepared that will lead to the next part of a campaign or adventure. I myself had four plot hooks for the group to pick from. 1 was to return home, 4000 ml away, to investigate who is attacking the company they work for. 2 to help a ghost return an heirloom to her homeland. 3 investigate the strange slave trader they encounter. 4 to investigate the possibly location of a flying city though lost 4800 years ago. Now I have the base for all four hooks and have flesh out the story of the one they picked. The others can go on the back burner for later use.

Yes! Providing ur players with clear goals for their characters is key. Uniting the party thru a common goal or enemy is a useful mechanism also. This is why i prefer running a heroic game. Players can rally around a cause or for the greater good. In my homebrewed campaign the party are in search of the Relics of Heqt - magic items which are needed to equip a lawful army that is under siege. This army is defending a city from a powerful enemy force and the 'good' army includes a number of good magicians who are allies with the party . One PC is an apprentice magician trained by the same guild of magicians.The enemy force includes creatures created by The Bloody Hand, an evil cult which the party have encountered before on a previous mission when they rescued a VIP npc from one of the custists strongholds. One PC is a lifelong enemy of the cult and his brother was corrupted to join its cause. Assuming the party find the relics in time and get them to the defenders under siege they will then be recruited as a specialist task force and be delegated a quest that will be pivotal to the outcome of the war. Spoiler: Their mission is to defend the library under the city which contains The Black Book, an ancient book of dark magic the cult need to complete their goal (Resurrect a cabal of vampires and their necromancer leader). These plot hooks have been revealed to the party over a number of sessions. The cult seek to summon a Dark God from another realm (This plot hook is not yet known to the party). The cult have been gathering sacrifices and holding them prisoner in their many strongholds, many of which are magicians. In the background, two rival assassins guilds compete for supremacy - one guild has side with the cultists and plot to betray them. The other guild has remained 'neutral' in the politics but has been drawn into the conflict as spies and infiltrators for the good magicians (One PC is apprenticed to a Master Assassin of the 'neutral' assassins guild). The Bloody Hand cultists and the Followers of Heqt share a long history of a centuries old conflict. Classic Good vs evil. We are in Season 7 of the campaign. Each season is ten sessions long. We play for 2-3 months every year. This story arc has been running for 8 years, but the campaign and two of the foundation characters started in 1987. We havent play through all that time, we went our own ways after high school and rebooted the campaign 10 years ago.

Hello Luke big fan Love your channel. I had a question for you, I understand that magic items are found through out the world during the adventure so my question is; would it be too much to ask of my DM to make my character's personal quest the pursuit of a legendary set of armor or weapon? or would that be considered metagaming?

I've been running a "Linear" adventure, and I've found myself having to come up with soo many sidequests. Thankfully, since we play every second week, I always want to make sure I prepare them ahead of time and how I can include them in the main quest. Such as; Oh, this Smart Goblin Artificer has create a method to force a beast into their were shape and making them slaves to his bidding through all sorts of methods. And that same Goblin Mage, which didn't exist in the main story, is now a pawn of the BBEG and will be holding specific information regarding the initial plot hook. I won't force my players to take it, but, if they don't, I will make sure that the plot hook thickens so much that it will become a major problem for the players and the country. Growing in strength and whatnot. I've even come up with scapegoats ideas if the plan takes a completely different ending than initially planned. Such as the "Supposed" BBEG isn't really the BBEG, but rather a sort of Prophet or Embassador to the real BBEG. Those ideas are left on the backburner for the following reasons; If the players come to be too strong for the initial fight (lvl 7 instead of lvl 5) that will require me to readjust the threat level to either match the encounter OR, have some bigger, more threatening entity that has lurked in the background for ages and must now make a bold move due to impatience or lack of wisdom due to old age. Things like that. These are just a bunch of ideas that I've come up if ever things go sideways and my players feel like the adventure should continue to move forward.

I smoked pork belly and made burnt ends from it this past weekend... my current bacon consumption is off the charts. And delicious.

Is there a way to get issues of Lair Magezine that you missed?

Great tips.

Thank you

If troubled while working, by bacon in mind, Flavour that kills, aids you to unwind, If the concept gives chills, enough you have whined, Run for the hills, and acquire pork hind! When the problem is stagnating bacon velocity, No choice but to increase the intake’s viscosity, Don’t give in to fear or marginalization. A problem like this warrants capitalization! If you follow your gut and with this find peace, The god of bacon is potent and with you will be pleased.

The Descrybd character art commission thing doesn't exist, by what I can see. Unless it is only a thing you get for a full sub and not normally on the website?

The rest of the world is not on pause while my players are out on adventures. I find ways of planting potential plot hooks through news of the outside world. One of my players received a missive from her brother that their father is ill. But the party is currently on the opposite end of the realm dealing with a large pack of demons. Another player character's father has sent word that the Savage nomads of their Homeland are acting up and causing trouble. The third player character has an assistant that is more than he appears.

I avoid the appearance of railroading by offering multiple plot hooks that all lead in the same direction. Thus PCs have multiple choices but nevertheless follow a track that furthers the overall plot of the campaign. Some of these plot hooks come from random encounters. If the PCs wander off, I use those to put them back in the thick of things.

In my current campaign the players killed the NPC plot giver and his backup with a max damage thunderwave. This resulted in them taking a round-about route to get to the main plot while going through subplots. I decided this resulted in them failing that plot line before even beginning bc it was time sensitive. They are back on track now and the campaign has gone on for over 2 years.

I'm new to dnd, first time dm for my friends who are also new... They dont make decisions, they're like idle npcs until I give them plot hooks lol.

For our Isle of Dread campaign the lord who recruited them and underwrote the mission required that they sign a magic contract casting a geas upon them. Their characters were scattered and I need a plot device to bring them together. For The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth they were promised a small kingdom. Upon completion of Tsojcanth they found that their fief of West Town was under threat by an army of giants who had just conquered Tika Town. The death of the previous lord left the town 10k GP behind on wages. The leader and organizer of this army was a Hill Giant with a steading up in the mountains north of Tika Town. Veteran players know were this is leading into. Yea, we are doing class modules.

I run a "guildhall" d&d game that's very much choose your quest type adventure

so, do you need to prepare a full adventure for every plot hook? Bc for the life of me i dont see how id have the time, nor do I see how I could stall my players for a full 3 hours after theyve chosen the direction they want to go in so I can prepare it after theyve made their choice. How do you have multiple plot hooks without over preparing? How do you present multiple plot hooks in the first place? What if theyre inclined to do the first thing you bring up making all the preparation for the other plots meaningless? If you wait til the end of one adventure, do you just say ok theres this, this, and this now choose? Or is there some way to bring them up more immersively without giving the appearance that what theyre witnessing is part of the current adventure?

Do you have examples of what session 1 plot hooks look like

I ran a sandbox campaign where I gave my players each a sending stone that could cast sending 3x a day so they could contact npcs they had met, which was fun because it allowed them to in character inform me of what npcs they liked and wanted to see more, but I made the mistake of expecting them to use it as a keystone item instead of an item for silly side note conversations. Overpowered compared to actual sending stones, but it didn't break combat economy and I enjoyed knowing what npcs they liked. I hoped that they would try to reach out to a key npc from a player's background that was crucial to the plot, but instead the one player who knew that they existed kept them a secret and they went on a killing spree to try and solve a problem that a phone call could have solved instead. I tried to hint to them that they had items that could advance the plot, but they didn't catch on and they grew bored of the relatively fruitless killing spree they went on instead of taking time to think about what they were actually trying to accomplish. How would you handle that? Should I have just straight up told them that backstory information was being withheld and only one of them had all the pieces to 1+1?

You are at a shady part of the town , and everyone seems to be eating bacon ... STOLEN bacon...

@theDMLair

2 жыл бұрын

I attack the bacon!!!

Social Contract? Or use modular content?

I ran my first pre-made as a first time GM (or at least it was a long time since I DM'd) and I had one player quit and yell hard at me because he felt he was being "rail roaded" because I wouldnt let him do things that would sprial out of control from the pre made and move into an on the fly homebrew. There was definilty a lot of side plots I made because of the players, but dang we cant do everything on the fly just because you want to do X. Esepcially in a pre made.

Are these actually a magazine or a PDF..?

I... am apparently really bad at secret plot hooks. My last 1 shot turned mini campaign had hint after hint after hint of what was going on but none of my players figured it out until after they finished the dungeon, killed the BBEG and asked me some questions.

Minute 1.00 imagining a group of gnoll attacking Shaftesbury villagers in Golden Hill to get more bacon 🥓 strips.

The basic social contact of a ttrpg game: the GM has to make interesting plot hooks and the players need to make characters that will follow plot hooks. I've seen more than a few players unsure why their characters would be doing pretty basic adventure stuff. Often it's the same players. They're really making interesting NPCs with fun backstories.

In a game I played my DM basically crapped over my character's back story. In retrospect I think he either regretted inviting me or thought I was oblivious. I assumed he made a mistake so when I ran the next game I brought in my character's full backstory instead of just answering a call for aid from her son. I did too good a job he eventually co-opted my setting and I quit when he crapped over both games instead of focusing on his own setting.

Exactly that.

Nice

I am lucky that my players are two cautious players and one kick in the door type. So if the other two hesitate the third will jump in. And so it doesn't linger. Does depend on players and a semi sandbox is what I normally do. Story linear and when downtime can go do stuff

Boy, I really love this heaping mound of bacon. I could eat this entire mound in five minutes.

My wizard is motivated mainly by morals, but does usually require payment for risking his life, because adveturing equipment and spell components arn't free. -my paladin is motivated purely by his morals. -my rouge is motivated mainly by character-motivations, but in a way that requires earning gold.

I really don't understand stand railroad and sandbox. I always thought you have a plot hook say Vampire trying to become a god. First plot hook is: the town they is attacked. Than after attack they get info on where to go. They can than go there, find adventure to better prepare, or whatever they want. When they do choose to go to next plot hook than go from there. Rinse and repeat

I counter your Railroad with my Illusion of Choice!

Bacon always gets a thumbs up! Maple smoked bacon 🥓 mmmmmmm

Whenever Luke mentions bacon it makes me feel a bit hungry but more so sad because I don't have bacon...Not today though! I got some bacon going straight into my mouth. Oh yeah plothooks or something

I hate the railroad/sandbox dichotomy. You can have structure and still have agency.

The last adventure I played in, which combusted after ten sessions, I think was supposed to be linear. In session one, he showed us the overarching story: half the gods of the world are missing and their marble city was destroyed. Session two featured a village enthralled by enchanted mead, and the story there went absolutely nowhere (apparently, I broke it with an Insight check). Session three, a somewhat vague plot hook was thrown at us that appeared to be out of our depth, so we just floundered a bit. The DM was all Surprised Pikachu face when we didn't take any of his bait, but like, dude, we are SECOND LEVEL. What are we supposed to do about missing gods exactly?

one slice of beacon per Turn as a free action -glup! 🥓

I use bacon to get my players to go where I want them to. Bribing fat smelly guys in a small enclosed space --- it works! But, I do worry I'm slowly killing off my players not just their characters.

I usually "railroad" in the sense that I get my players to a hub with multiple clear options of adventure. A series of lesser, but not hidden, hooks will give me an idea of what the PCs and their characters want to do. I then try to pick, steal, and scrounge whatever I can from my prep and my world building to make what they choose seem real - give rewards, make consequences, and most importantly give the players choices that matter. I facilitate the story that they want to play out and keep in the motivations and goals of the biggest factions in my world. I feel like that's my job, right?

I used to be like the girl that took 20min to decide what to get at McDonalds until I realized that sometimes the choice that is made is not what matters, it's just that a choice is made that matters. So just pick one, because they are both equally good.

I don't like the video but I'm eating a heaping mound of bacon right now... Got me again, I see

Attaching level onto prestige instead of Exp works for some tables

It never hurts to repeat a plothook that you want the players to take on. The authorities at the temple have reported that bodies are being stolen from the crypts. Then have some grumbling townsfolk in the tavern mention that someone defiled the grave of their parents or spouse that passed away. When unused corpses are no longer readily available, whoever needs them can make some more out of living people. If the players still don't resolve the mystery, eventually the necromancer has enough foot soldiers to attack the town since no one stopped them.