Hey guys, per your request here is a link to the data. You'll have to "File -> Make a Copy" for yourself if you want to play with it. Instructions are included. :) docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j1ME1F2-Yyka5Gkpvy0bcY0-dc9ixyt6kWEpuQRlJkY/edit?usp=sharing

@Burizado

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for providing the document, but how did you pull the data from "hot curls"? Just wondering how I can update the data in the document with different parameters based on what I am looking for. Thanks for such an informative channel!

@myeongsuk8578

7 жыл бұрын

Jessica and Ryan Adventures Hi there! you should really consider Bali catamarans which is a part of Catana group. You could get a new one somewhere in the range of what you're looking to pay.

@johnpublic976

6 жыл бұрын

Are you talking about a New 40'+ Cat for around $250k? or Provide Info and maybe a link? Thanks All!

@loric1222

4 жыл бұрын

@@Burizado i have no idea what hot curls is

@roberts8783

12 күн бұрын

would love to see new data. would you consider updating it for a modest fee if your query still works?

I like the data driven approach vs subjective anecdotes.

Thanks man! Thanks for sharing all of your excellent research....looking forward to meeting you upon the seas someday!

We have to say THANK YOU!! This was so helpful for us with our search for a catamaran. Look forward to your next video.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

+Tatonka Free Thanks for the comment! Glad the video could help. :)

Great analysis with great chart visuals! Thanks so much for sharing as I am a future cat buyer. Thanks!

Very good job on spreadsheet - Dozens of hours searching, compiling & typing all this info. Thanks

Superb Information Ryan! YOU ROCK!

interesting and practical data. Thanks for sharing!

Great info! I really appreciate the level of thoughtfulness and planning you are putting into your search and your videos. I'm a heavy planner too and can appreciate the amount of work you've put into this.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks! We appreciate the support.

Very Impressive! This must have been a lot of work collecting and analyzing the data. It is very informative and useful. It is one of the most valuable videos on catamarans. Thank you very much!

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Very well done. I am shopping as well and so I am very grateful for this.

Fantastic guide, thanks so much

Well put together video with great content. Thanks!

Very Informative and helpful information. I just subscribed and will continue to follow your adventures. thanks

Always appreciate your detailed approach. Thanks. What program or how did you do this?

This will be interesting to look back on in about a year.

Great job Ryan!!

Good stuff. I haven't analysed it to that degree, but matches up with the searching I've done on cats.

Just found your channel, great video with some effort put into it. That effort is very much appreciated. I had to pause and jump over to your channel to see if you were living the dream and very pleased to see you are. Four more years and the wife retires. Hopefully a catamaran will be the next chapter in my life since the wife is sold on the idea.

Great info. Thanks.

Thank you so much!

I have been doing some casual "shopping". I really like your approach and your videos. You have put an amazing amount of work into this project. I looked at the Gemini line and I just can not consider the Gemini a true cruiser They are just way too cramped for living any length of time and the storage is limited. I am stuck on the Leopards...and the living space, the ability to get to the wiring/plumbing/engines/controls etc without having to saw open a wall or rip out the ceiling makes the Leopard my current pick. Have you included a budget item for the repairs expected on an older boat. I think the Wynn's did a great job for researching their boat before they made their final deal, but they still got hit with some real budget buster expenses. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing you on your new-to-you boat. Very best to you both. Fair Winds.

What data sources did you use ? I'm going to attempt the same analysis for several boat types and sizes .

Excellent. Thank you.

Very helpful thank you.

Great stuff!

You guys have helped me develope an obsession for boating. Years ago I would never have even considered a saleboat but my eyes have been opened wide and I can't stop thinking about them. I am driving my girlfriend nuts from watching your and other blogs on KZread. Keep on doing what you are doing.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

lol. nice. well keep up your research. it seems like the more you do, to more likely you are to actually realize the dream!

please can you make a video like this for monohulls

This was great, thank you. I'm planning to buy a catamaran also so this is very good information. Peace and fair winds...

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Cool, glad it could help! Good luck on your cat!

You really did your homework... Great info!!!!!!!!!!

Ryan, thanks for the vid. I enjoy your posts as you are always complete and all about facts! One idea is a 3 variable way to show data. You can make a bubble graph with number of units being size of bubble. Then you can do a graph of bubbles with Year vs Price or Length. Just another way to help analysis. Best, Dale

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Oh interesting, I'll play around with that idea. Because there is definitely a correlation between year and price or length & price that could be interesting to see

Maybe you should have added width too, I have heard that the charges double for slips that are very wide other then that a very good job of listing all the choices ...

You could do a vid about the best place to buy a boat, US east coast, south coast, west coast, Caribbean, Thailand, The Med. etc.

cool!! how did you got these data? php?

very in- depth film brilliant, we did the same for our boat but on a cheaper scale we have a 1974 Moody Centre cockpit for £15,000.00 with a Perkins 48 Engine. We dream of owning a Catamaran its cheaper to follow you.

what particular Cat do you prefer to buy? Is it cheaper to buy a boat here in states or abroad?? keep the vlogs coming bro i enjoy your persistence in making the best boat buying decision. drew

Interesting facts thanks

Does anybody know the name of the site?

Nice video - the only suggestion I would have is to try adding a scatter plot to correlate price vs year and price vs length (maybe overlay those two or even do a multivariate plot) and see if there is some correlation between those three items. Another factor that you might want to add is chartered vs not chartered since chartering normally means that they have a lot more wear and tear for their age. But again nice video!

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, thats a good idea with the overlays or multivariate charts. Charter vs non charter would be a little more difficult because I'd have to data mine with some logic to pull it out of the description, but it should be doable. I'd also like to compare USA vs non-USA pricing as it seems that anything the the USA is at least 20-30% more expensive if not more.

Awesome. Really. Thanks for doing all this work. As a developer I know what went into this.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

lol. Thanks. :)

I know I am late to the party commenting here but I just got bit by the cruising bug and have recently found your channel. Another budget item I would keep in mind when looking at boats in Foreign Ports is that you may need to consider wiring/transformer work at some point. Most EU and Aussie boats (and possibly some Carib. boats?) will likely be wired for 220V. So hopefully they would come equipped with all the goodies you will need until such time that you can afford to switch over to 110. It would suck to have your microwave die on you when back in NA and you can't easily find a replacement!

good reporting

Great useful info guys. Thing about cats is length isn't such a major factor when compared to monohulls, mainly because you have two hulls and the beam of a cat can change dramatically and provide much more room for a smaller length. I would not consider any cat below 34ft to be suitable for blue water sailing simply because length does have a major comfort and safety consequence when in big seas. Personally I have about €150k and I am looking in the Mediterranean area where I live for 10yo'ish Cats that suit families, so Lagoon 380s/410s (Pref S2 versions), FP Mahe / Athena / Lavezzi and Nautitech 395 / 40 in that order. Here in the Med they start from about €120k. Don't forget however if your budget is $250k you will need some of that for fees and with any old boat it WILL need some work to get it sea ready for you to take it home. SO my rule of thumb keep 10% back for all of this. Right now I am just looking, not quite ready to buy, but by the end of summer when the prices come down and people have started listing their boats for sale after finishing the season I hope to find a good deal and by then I should have my ICC licence to sail anything I do buy without needing to hire a skipper.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, we're in a similar situation but maybe with less cash, we'll get a loan which is ok for us as I intend to keep working my day job, just remotely. We're aiming for something much closer to the 200k mark and will also be looking near the end of summer/early fall for the actual purchase. And yeah we're aiming to have at least 10-15% extra to spend for all the costs of surveys & marinas and vital repairs. We'll probably share our actual real number budget after the purchase. But until then it's under wraps. We can't let the boat brokers know exactly what's in our bank. That'd be terrible for negotiations. lol

@AC0KG

7 жыл бұрын

I've just discovered your channel, so you may have addressed this elsewhere already, but I wonder if you can give some details about how you will be doing remote work? I'm considering something similar, but I often hear about the difficulty of finding reliable internet, and Iridium seems both unreliable and cost-prohibitive. Will connectivity constraints just need to be factored into your travel plans, or are you traveling somewhere that it just isn't an issue?

@davidnaus

6 жыл бұрын

SpinDreams so did you find a boat in the mediterrenean and what type at what price?

Didn't really plan on the whole two turtles thing! Didn't even notice it till editing. But it's pretty awesome, I like it, and it's our logo, so #branding.

@leftheart13

7 жыл бұрын

3 turtles.. back of computer, your shirt and the subscribe in the corner... nice..

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Oooh yeah. Good eye! lol

Enjoyed thanks...looking at doing the same thing in a few years so this is a nice overview.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@kirkbeaumont5295

7 жыл бұрын

I'll be really interested what you found out when you start actually looking. I have my favorite designs in those years(2006+ for finance reasons). I like the looks of the FP LAVEZZI 40's but most come with Volvo engines who's parts cost almost twice as much (Raw water pump example 453.04 vs 283). The Lagoons have such a thick looking top in those years..but that's just a looks thing not a function. I also heard, which you might want to confirm about a bad batch of epoxy in those years for FP so they get osmosis easier..just stuff to think about. Excited for your journey I'll be following along closely from Dallas :)

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Oh good to know. Thanks for the info. Didn't realize that about Volvo engines. I know many of the Lagoons have Yanmar's in them but hadn't compared the upkeep/parts of the two engines ever.

@kirkbeaumont5295

7 жыл бұрын

Anytime! I think the Lagoon 400's in the 2010ish range will be your best bet. Happy hunting!

Excellent content and very helpful as I intend to buy a yacht in the next 1-2 years. Thanks for putting this together. Have you got a shortlist of makes that you're likely to focus in on yet?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Most likely a 10yr old Lagoon. We're not 100% sure which model but a 400 seems to match our budget the best. We've also considered similarly sized FP and Leopards, so if we find a deal on them, then who knows!

@wincrasher2007

7 жыл бұрын

Lagoons are very popular on the charter circuit. They are used and abused and then discarded. You can find a good price, but you'll probably have to do a ton of work. The Wynn's boat was over $300k and they still had to do 10's of thousands of dollars worth of work on it.

@stevetrouble7080

7 жыл бұрын

I don't think they "Had to spend" it was more a chose to modify the boat to suit their lifestyle. It also depends on how handy you are and what knowledge you are bringing to the party. For the Wynns one thing was all their servicing of the motors and winches was done for them but they had a time line they were working to.Nothing wrong with this know your limits but a used and abused boat as a longer term project where you have the time to learn and work on service etc is OK as long as the Hulls, Engines, Sails and Rigging is good, they also allow for more drastic changes (live in one hull gut and fitout the other), then swap. Better to know the boat when you set sail too having done the work yourself I learned that one setting sail and the motor impellor sucked up weed, almost sank the boat when I closed the wrong valve and removed the impeller while under sail (it was not that bad but it could have been).Every older boat I have dealt with has electrical gremlins tho so become a 12v sparky and enjoy I have gone to land and have a house, tractor, cattle, horses and a dog so I am jealous of these people setting sail. Pity I was in a monohull and it was a pig to wire, plumb and find secure space for everything.

@despoonsamy4624

7 жыл бұрын

Okay, true but the Wynn's boat is a Leopard not a Lagoon

FP for the win! But the recent ones are nicest. But seriously an ex-charter can be good if it's not too old. They do get used a lot, but they also tend to get maintained regularly. Non-charter boats can have problems from sitting idle and being undermaintained. So it's a tradeoff.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

New FP's really are nice. No argument there. If only we had that kind of budget!

Another great video, Ryan. Two questions: Is it reasonable to suggest negotiating can save you 10% off the asking price? $280k vs $250k on your chart. Or is the potential savings greater? You mentioned this data comes from the site that rhymes with "blotchy-girl". I believe all these boats are represented by a broker. ? If we were to look at other "for-sale-by-owner" type sites, would we see more inexpensive boats? Thanks

Jessica N Ryan, very nice presentation. We currently have a FP 35' Tobago up for sale. We have owned BeeZoo for 10 years and sailed her every chance we got. The Tobago is an excellent starter catamaran. We have not had any major issues with the boat. The Yanmar 18GM diseils have been serviced regularly and are in excellent shape. We recently had the bottom painted and the hulls are solid. BeeZoo does need some minor cosmetic enhancements but she sails beautifully. BeeZoo is listed at $115K with Florida Yacht Group. Take a look. It's a great value.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

+Andrew Friden cool we'll take a look. 35' is maybe a little bit small. I'm 6'3" and it seems that many boats don't have head room for me until they hit about 40'. But, I'll check out online. :)

@andrewfriden9900

7 жыл бұрын

Ryan BeeZoo has headroom in hulls and bridgedeck.Just had sail drives checked and lubed. Zinc have been changed. We bought BeeZoo from original owners and kept her behind their house. We purposely kept the boat simple. Only electronics is autohelm GPS radio and stereo. You can reach me at Luv2sail954@aol.com. Can send you pictures

Good video. I'm in the same point. I found a few lagoon 440 under 8 years old in the 250 range when I thought a 440 would be good. but I like the features of a 450 more. my wife likes that each head has a separate shower. if you want to see my list of 440s under 280k let me know. I even went and looked at a couple.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Sure thing. I'd be curious to see your list. I have one of my own but it's not very lengthy. Maybe shoot me an email at jessicaandryanadventures@gmail.com

nice job with all the info. are you guys going to the miami show this month to look at cats?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

No, we wish, it would be nice/practical. But the cost of flying us both out there and getting a hotel room would take from the boat savings fund and right now it take priority of pretty much everything.

I am terribly late to comment here. May I suggest some filtering by manufacturers using most commonly available parts. As you have mentioned, repairs and replacements will be a major part of your life. It seems wise to need parts that are most commonly available. Worldwide if that will be your destination. i.e., where will that cooling pump come from to you in Madagascar? I hope to find you well and happy these days, and wish you the best of fair seas!

this was great any chance you can scrape the data again in 2023?

If you buy a cruising cat for 200k you will need another 50 to 100k to fix it up unless you have all the skills and time to do the work yourself. Take a look at what the Wyns got for their 200k budget and what it ended up costing after all the fixes and cruising prep was done.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, lol, they went waaaay over their original budget. I think they had a very talented salesman who got them what seems to be the right thing for them, if not their budget. But its situations like that that make me what to really learn what the deals are out there. If you want to get a better than average deal, then you need to know what the average deal is. And who doesn't want a better than average deal? :)

Great job. looks like your in full boat stalker mode. this is the fun time when any one of the boats you look at could be the one. and its easy to dream about flying to some exotic place to pick the boat up and you have yet to discover the massive list of things that need attention. Just joking. I cant wait to see this spread sheet on your web page. the two of you will find the right boat for a reasonable price, Your doing all the right things so no need to wish you luck as your making your own. and point of suggestion. I would make 36 feet your shortest. the PDQ36 is the smallest Cat i would take on a world cruise and be comfortable in. any shorter then that and the wave length gets annoying as does the size for what you want to take with you and storage needs. sure you can do it but why would you. and the same goes for the upper size limit. i would not go over 42 feet. when you get that big you two will need help docking and handling the boat in weather, it becomes a bigger issue. yes the new 44's are designed to be short handed but you pay for that. 10 years ago it was the 40's that were designed to be short handed. when you look at a boat with High free-board think how you will get off to tie lines. there are procedures to do it but it gets harder the bigger you go. and remember to not be boat poor. the purchase is just the first step. you should reserve 50% of purchase price for Broker fees. 5% to the purchaser in Europe. insurance $ depends on size make and cost but say $2000 Survey $2500 Includes haulout. required repairs ????? could be a big or small number. the better the deal makes this number bigger normally. new dingy $3500 new sails($8000 for jib and main on a 40') new electronics ($3000) new auto pilot ($6000) De-registration fee ($1000) Registration fee $500 in Canada not sure in the US? TAX !!!!$$$$ in Canada its 15% and its owing the moment you touch your home soil. that could be $37,500 tax bill for you. those unforeseen weeks in a boat yard waiting for the de-registration paperwork to clear. and the first few months of boat honeymoon at marina's till you get your full cruising life going. so your probably looking at $150-200K boats so the best plan..... get the price down as best you can. it will lower many of the other prices. so a boat that needs everything replaced but costs $100K vice a boat that is $250K will have $12,500 bigger tax bill that could have been used to buy all new gear. and make it just as nice but with new gear you want vice old gear some one else liked but now you have to live with. old boats have there benefits. I dont regret buying our Privilege and the great price we got it for. and in the years to come you will always wish you had gotten a bigger boat and you will have forgotten that the boat had to have a water heater replaced or the bilge pump didn't work or the plotter and Radar were old and broken when you first got it. so dont sweat the small stuff and go for the prize. but i think you already know most of this so i will just sit back and drink a beer and enjoy you two getting into this lifestyle.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, we're trying to budget at least 10% (ideal 20%) of the purchase price extra for those must fixes and incidental costs. I'm a bit scared of taxes but if we can prolong it by staying out of US waters then we can dampen that blow. For boat size, that's also our strategy. We can always fix things up and replace equipment moving forward, but they only way to increase boat size is to buy a bigger boat, so we want to start with something we know we can grow into.

@danielweston9188

7 жыл бұрын

I just got tired

@mikewilliams4947

3 жыл бұрын

Daniel Weston when I get tired, I imagine jumping off the back of the boat into refreshing crystal clear water. Then keep punching

you said programmatically .. is there a github repo that I can clone from for generating new raw data ...and maybe display using matplotlib?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately not really. It was sort of a mix of a hacky script/chrome extension and using sublime text's bulk edit features to get the data into a CSV. I was somewhat dismayed at how much hands on the whole process had to be.

Valuable info. Thank you. I've been toying with the idea of picking up a used 40-ish foot cat in the next two to three years and I came up with the same conclusion. Great work BTW. I like numbers and graphics too. LOL =)

@rogergrubb

7 жыл бұрын

Will we see you at the Miami Boat Show?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks for the comment! I wish we could be at the Miami boat show but we booked another trip that week before we knew anything about the Miami boat show. Maybe next time though!

@rogergrubb

7 жыл бұрын

Well I'm in the same boat as you, so to speak. ... so I'll subscribe and glean any wisdom you pickup in you're search. Happy sailing, from the San Francisco Bay area.

Hey Ryan, Where do you usually look for the boats to buy? Yacht world is the only place I really know about besides Craigslist. Any other suggestions?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yachtworld.com is honestly the best I've found for looking at boats. There are other sites, and sometimes they have listings yachtworld doesn't. but its rare. I'm currently working on a strategy to find boats a little easier but don't have the kinks worked out yet. Once I do I'll make a video and share.

Good job gathering and interpreting the data. -johnny

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

did you write the scraping code yourself or use an app (which one?)

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

I used a tool to pull the raw data then I used an app called sublime text to bulk edit the data to massage it into something that I could pull into excel. Im not sure which app I used to scrape the data. I downloaded the first 3 free ones on the google chrome plugin store and just used the one I found most intuitive. It was definitely more of a manual process than I expected.

Still true today. Mid-2000s Lagoon 380s are getting to be solidly under $200k. I have 9 years until I retire at a still young enough to cruise 52 years old.

1992 catana 42 s for 157k nice.. and u have 90k left to kit the boat. in tahiti

Where did you get your ASA certifications? Which certifications? And how much do they run?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

We got ASA 101, 103, 104, and 114 down in Kemah TX at South Coast Sailing. If you look at some of our earlier videos we did reviews on them which include prices. (which I can't remember off the top of my head, but it wasn't cheap) We've gotten better at filming/editing since then but they're still useful i think. We might also take 105 & 106 before buying the boat but are undecided on that.

Nice stats, thanks! I chartered cats and monohulls but never owned a boat since consider it in my situation not prudent economically. However at some point I plan on getting one. As a request if you go through the process of buying a boat it would be nice to know the details and costs of its registration in the US. Would be quite useful if you guys will make a video on the subject.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yup, after we buy our boat we'll definitely share all the details about how we made it happen.

Great video! My wife and I have been following your videos recently; we are hoping to get into a live-aboard and are currently doing our research. This helps tremendously! Thank you! One side question. Would you mind if I emailed you to get more information on your methods for scraping the data? I have an interest in the technique, and seeing your video has rekindled that interest. It's kind of interesting to me that a large percentage of the regular sailing KZread videos of folks that are making it a life-style were, at one point, in the tech industry... specifically programmers, lol.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

+Anthony Celaya yeah for sure. Shoot us an email at jessicaandryanadventures@gmail.com we're actually out cruising with friends this week so we might be slow to respond. But this weekend we'll be back.

Ryan, Great analytical analysis of the data. One thing I noticed in the video. You did not also filter by OWNERS versions!. That will reduce your available options dramatically. I have also found that site (the one that sounds like.. : ) )...Isn't very intuitive to find owners versions all the time. I have to dig down into the specification tabs. I have had a charter company tell me they can CONVERT a 4 cabin/4 head charter into an Owners. Never got the price though.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the best way I have to figure out owners version is purely by looking at the number of berths/heads. They have boats listed as owners versions that are still 4 cabin 4 head. and some that never mention owners version but list only 3 cabins. Fountain Pajot calls their owners versions "Maestros". As far as a 4 cabin conversion to 3 cabin. Well that is something we intend to do ourself's and you can be sure we'll make videos covering that process. We'll be doing the work ourselves, but even then, marine quality materials are gonna cost.

@douglasmontgomery6315

7 жыл бұрын

Ryan, I was unaware you were going to do the conversion (looking at 4/4 vessels). Have you looked into composting toilets (heads)? Might make the conversions easier (future maintenance definately). Will you guys be at the Miami Boat Show? If so, let me know..the wife and I will be there and would love to meet up.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

We briefly considered composting heads but I think we might have unfairly dismissed the idea. But now thinking about the plumbing work involved with the conversion, the idea probably warrants a second look. I've already spec'd out showers and it looks like a normal pre-fab fiberglass shower from home depot will do for the shower and they cost just a couple hundred bucks. Then we need a sink and a head and a door. We might do the conversion in stages. Our biggest want out of it is a large/functional bathroom with a seperate shower from the head. We won't be able to make it to the Miami boat show though we would like too. But we've already got another trip booked the same weekend. Some other time though! It sounds like fun.

Noticed that as you go cheaper and smaller some may or could be gas and some are outboard. Did you exclude those when pulling the data or was it purely length and year?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

I didn't exclude on engine type, though that might be interesting to see. My data collection tool couldn't easily get access to engine info. Really the only restrictions on the search were that it was: A) Sailing Catamarans, B) longer than 30ft, and C) less the $280k list price. Anything else was fair game to be included.

@svbacchus4949

7 жыл бұрын

Got it, thanks. I thought that might be data buried too deep and might bog the process. Excellent job and excellent video!

Hey that's a cool idea for boat shopping. You ought to build a little website that scrapes data from different sources and make a commission plus sell advertisements or "premium exposure space". Might be a good way to make some extra income and/or an oncoming income when you're on the water! Cheers

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

hmm. intersting idea. i'll have to think about it some. but I can see some merit to it.

beam * length = new sorted chart's index. Gemini is deceptive when you aren't aware or the beam being so narrow.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, same is true for some of the smaller Leopards we've noticed. I wish boat manufacturer would list square footage for the models. I know they don't want to because even a big 44ft cat might only have 600-700sqft of space. But at least then you could compare the boats. beam * length is a good substitute but can be deceptive on those performance cats with very narrow hulls. a 45ft Lagoon has way more living space than a 45ft Outremer. Not that we can afford either though. lol

@SenatorPerry

7 жыл бұрын

I do admit to liking the Gemini Legacy 35, but my reality is singlehanding. My backup plan was to get a Legacy 35 in the event I couldn't get the Catamaran I want. Short of that I will end up in a Trawler for coastal cruising. Can't bring myself to get a monohull heeling over with a 1 year old and a 3 year old. The review sites around really struggle with translating experience. I would love to see a gopro hung under the bridge deck to look for slapping. The Legacy 35 has good access to the engine on one side, but the other is in the head from a smaller hatch. Having really useful sugar scoops is pretty important to me. Bleh. One day someone is going to figure out the formula. This was a good video with good information. Keep doing what you are doing.

As part of your $250 budget, how much of that is allocated to repairs? Or are you including a repair budget separate from your purchase budget?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Good question, and yeah I'm counting repairs as a separate budget because the same boat could potentially have wildly different repair costs depending one who's buying it. A DIYer who just wants the boat functional & comfortable might have a much smaller repair budget than a "pay someone else to do it" person who wants the boat to be perfect. Or that was my thinking at least.

Ryan, fantastic job! Anyway you can share your sheet? As in download? Happy to donate to the kitty...

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

thanks! I'll try to get the data available online tonight in some format. I'll comment back here when its up.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Ok, try this. You'll have to "File -> Make a Copy" for yourself if you want to play with it. Instructions are included. :) docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j1ME1F2-Yyka5Gkpvy0bcY0-dc9ixyt6kWEpuQRlJkY/edit?usp=sharing

what is that program? i need it to serch for my boat

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

you can find lot's of boats on yachtworld.com. the data I have is really just a subset of that data. But their site is a good place to start and probably easier for finding specific boats.

@wardell7

7 жыл бұрын

Ahh ok.. yeah I hit them all up... thought there was code that put all the information together

@wardell7

7 жыл бұрын

We sail just about every weekend we are not flying off somewhere... I really like your spread sheet.. well.keep up great information and videos

Did you identify the ex-charter boats - to me this is really important to consider as the engine hours and general wear and tear can be add 10 years to a 7 year old boat (when compared to say something that sat on the hard over each winter)

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Someone else asked something similar. I think I might be able to pull that data but am not 100% sure. I'll have to play with it some.

@Video881616

7 жыл бұрын

There's probably only a few brands that are normally ex charter (eg Lagoon) so not that big a job. Also, are you sure you're not counting the same boat twice or more as they will tend to appear on several websites under different agents. I'd also suggest that you check the pricing of some major items for each (like Genoa, windlass, main winch) to get an idea of what you could be up for to replace. The pricing of these is probably way cheaper in USA versus remote Caribbean island so consider the source of this hardware and the cost of freight to the boat (eg a water maker in USA is going to be easy to transport)

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

I pulled the data from a single site, so that should help cut down on duplicates. That said, there still might be some duplicates in the data though they should be minimal. probably around 5% of the results. So probably not enough to skew the shape or overall conclusion from any of the charts. But yeah, its not perfect. And yeah you have a point, you could easily have two boats of the same condition but 1 has new sails, rigging, and equipment, watermaker & solar and could therefore cost 50k more. In a sense its hard to compare boats based purely on make, model, & year. Not really an apples to apples situation.

Please combine the age and price plots into one X-Y scatter plot! Maybe a few different ones for each 5' long range. Or post the spreadsheet. heh heh Hot curls ? I'm stumped.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Hmm. good idea on the charts. Maybe I'll make a follow up video expanding on the data. Someone also wanted to compare agains't monohulls for good measure which could be useful too.

How about a tag back so we can talk about underwater appendages like keels ,daggerboards & centerboards as well as the alternate SCABBOARDS NORMAN

A 3-d plot using price, length and age would be interesting.

Plenty of Leopard 39 in your price range seem to be for sale at Moorings BVI Plenty of FP Mahe 36 catamarans for sale in your price range also

Cats are nice. I'd like to see the comparison between how big a monohull you could get for the same price range. I know the characteristics of the two are quite different.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Hmm, food for thought and maybe another video. It would be interesting to see.

Why 10 years? because charter company contracts from the buy to charter market are 10 years.The average 10 year old cat will have little or no equipment and be beat up from 10 years in the charter market.Plan on 20 to 30% of your budget for refit rigging replacement (which insurance companies will insist on) 1 year maintaince etc If your planning on buying a 250k boat best budget 325k. Also the resale cost needs to be considered. What will your boat be worth in 5 years of heavy use? Will you be happy with bagged out sails? Engine condition should play a big part in your decision.

what is under the tab "secret"...😁 sorry for trolling, actually very informative video 👍

Get a monohull! It's organic and wonderful! And tons cheaper!

@Ryan-jx4vh

5 жыл бұрын

Ruthie Henderson You get bounced around like crazy in a mono. It is very hard to sink a cat.

You may have guessed that I'm a builder, I've bought a few properties. I never fall in love with a property, I never focus on a property that appears ideal and I am always 'matter of fact', no emotion, calm and extremely patient. Why? Because I must walk away if I do not get my price. In fact many properties I have purchased I have walked away from, they have my number and some call and the deal is done, some call and try to talk me up, I do not move, ever (the other buyer is always fictional). And there are many advantages (other than the price) of purchasing below market value. The disadvantage is that I spend a lot of time looking and valuing but I've developed systems to filter, value, etc (like you have, well done). Also there will be dry periods, sometimes years without a purchase. I must also be prepared to make instant decisions, the classic example is a purchase that I saw at 11:00 and owned at 17:00, 6 hours, the price was low and I feared someone else might jump in. When the stamp duty listing (sales published by tax dept) came out I was flooded with calls, "how the heck did you get that", etc. Know what you are looking at, what you need to know if it's not in the 'section 32' (a statement with disclosures). Know how to value. What else? ... Don't ignore overvalued boats, some vendors are so overambitious they'll end up in a corner and desperate, so make sure they have your number so you can be there (warning, you may feel heartless, even guilty. I have). So be pragmatic and totally unemotional about this thing that you are passionate about, difficult but if determined and prepared, doable. I reckon the way you are headed you can do that. Oh, avoid brokers if you can, they are extremely good salesmen with a wealth of experience and you are not. BTW, I have sold real estate on vendor finance, I can beat the banks and I get a better return. Unlikely but you may find vendors in that position? (I may have just wasted time but ...) Good luck.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Is vendor finance the same thing as seller financing? Sounds like it might be. This is something we've been curious about lately. Don't even know if its something people do for boats. Seems like there would be too high a risk for the buyer to just sail off with the boat. But to help out with that we were wondering if there was some sort of private mortgage insurance or something for boats.

@buildmotosykletist1987

7 жыл бұрын

Yes there is but same as with a bank. Except, the mortgage insurance from banks is just additional profit for them. Finance from any source unless there is other security provided will require (A) Very secure boat insurance (poss other stuff/insurance too?) (B) Mortgage insurance. Vendor finance is often ignored or feared and Banks, etc warn against it because they lose out and it's a win - win for the mortgagee and mortgagor. The mortgagor can get a higher interest rate than a bank and it gives and the mortgagee a lower rate, look at the difference of both rates online. There should be confident trust between both parties, a standard contract should be used and both parties well informed by trusted independent solicitors (lawyers). The insurance must protect both the vendor and purchaser (vendor passes away, etc). My experience of providing vendor finance has been all good with a bonus of the warm fuzzies that I've helped. Trust and honest communication is the key. Another even better method of finance may be your parents. Should they own their home it can be used to provide the finance in a few ways, one being a direct mortgage loan, two as security and other methods, all will be cheaper. *However* you really *must be absolutely sure* that your insurance *will* cover any unforeseen event if the worst happens. An additional benefit is that the boat insurance should be lower as you will have clear title to it. Do you understand all that? To steal a line from a movie, "I've been around ya know" and mariners tell me there are perhaps too many shysters around the docks and often they are finance, insurance brokers, surveyors, boat brokers and salesmen, they tend to work together to maximise *their* income not yours. I presume you have looked at your tax situation and how the boat (cat) should be carefully documented to be sure it is an appropriate tax deduction? After all it is solely for the purpose of generating income, *isn't it*! It is in no way a leisure vehicle! (there is no law against enjoying your job (business). hth, build.

@buildmotosykletist1987

7 жыл бұрын

I'm happy to take this offline but don't have your email and I'd rather not publish mine. regards,

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

sure thing, our youtube email is rather public so I don't mind sharing: jessicaandryanadventures@gmail.com

The first graph is not a histogram

FYI; Fortuna and Island Spirit are the same thing. Actually, Fortuna makes Island Spirit.

I was shown one the other day for $80,000. It was under 40 ft though.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

That's definitely more budget friendly. Under 40ft can be completely fine depending on someones criteria for the boat. Too big can be a hassle in many scenarios.

@TheMonkeyrock77

7 жыл бұрын

This ones pretty much built for a couple. Would you like to see it? Remember, $80,000 is only asking price.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

I'd be curious to see it. We're planning on something big enough to have guests on quite regularly. So it sounds like this boat would be too small. But its always good to know what the options out there are!

Excellent job! But You schould be more careful with Dean Catamarans. I've read that they went bankrupt and that some boats have strucutural problems. Do some research.

@actiaint

6 жыл бұрын

Yep - I was looking at one for under $150k 1995 - started to find comments like yours - apparently some are well built!

Dude its very simple,with a Mono if a rogue wave hits you,you can roll and you and you boat are usually safe,compared to a cat,its a high probability that a cat will not come out the best,and anyone knows cats are built for speed and thats it.

Check our boat out on 2 C Waves

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

ok. will do!

I am assuming this is US data that you used. One of the frustrating things about being in the land down under as nothing on You Tube is relevant to us, (except our young friends at La Vagabond)...(leave me know while I go cry in the corner; ))

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

lol. The data is location agnostic. And because its cats, probably 80% of the listings (or more) are from the Med & the Caribbean. not that that helps you guys any. lol.

It's good to also take into consideration pricey stuff like sail brand/quality, engine hours/maintenance, folding props (which make a noticeable difference) and other general equipment, etc. Having to change these items out hammers your budget for improvements, and still you will need 20% of total cost for this budget. I bought a 4-cabin charter version with idea to convert to owners cabin.........then we discovered that we are in the saloon/cockpit/trampoline for 95% of our waking hours....so trashed that idea (for now at least). Last note, you can haggle with the seller, but remember you can also put a list of conditions (repairs/replace) that the seller has to pay for.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the advice/practical experience. Using the seller to fix a set of conditions is something we should probably research more about. We want to know how to use all bargaining chips at our disposal.

Nice Turtle logo. I have several Sea Turtle tattoos. Good luck on your cat search. Also plan on doubling all your back up's. You will have two hulls. Two engines. Two of everything. Most people I have meet living on a budget have REGRET there cat purchase. If money is no problem. Go crazy.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah for sure cats & tight budgets don't seem to play nicely together.

If only money, were no object 👍

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

i know right!

@philandlyra3365

7 жыл бұрын

Jessica and Ryan Adventures holy crap, I just watched a video on a 2017 lagoon seventy 7, damn!!!!!!!

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

I know!! Who can afford that?! and how many do they plan on making, seems like it'd have to be just 1 for just one guy who's crazy rich.

Oh just 250k... ill take 2

I drive my partner crazy with spreadsheets - she with sticking to budgets - so it all works out.

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, sometimes I try showing it all to Jessica and her eye's glaze over. lol. I have forcast models based on our historical saving & spending habbits. Lists of boats models and average prices. But, it helps keep you sane while waiting to be able to afford a boat!

@danielweston9188

7 жыл бұрын

I end up using them to eliminate the edges and focus - other factors then come into play that spreadsheets can't account for. - Did you set a length limit that put the Lagoon 450F orS out of the running? If so was that just because of Price? - Wait I see a few 47' Lagoon - not many available?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

Just price. I don't think I've ever seen a 450 for less than $300k (maybe not even less than $325k). But that said, they're really nice. maybe someday we'll upgrade to something like that.

@danielweston9188

7 жыл бұрын

I saw the 4 Cabin in SF - the cabins seem more than big enough have you seen the 3 Cabin?

@jandradventures

7 жыл бұрын

No not in person. We've actually only seen 450's from the outside. Never been in or on one. The cabin in the 3 cabin looks absolutely massive from the floorplan.

Your hairline now belongs to the Lakers

6:06 to help, you u were supposed to state:"a 280k cap on your data, it would be unreasanable to pay the listing price" it has to do with the nature of the brokerage business. Brokers, all due respect to some of them, even have a name for buyers who pay the listing price. Then if that fails, we have our written survey results to use it as leverage to lower the price at least 100% of repairs with labor and time. Hence, your data is skewed if it does no take into consideration this 2 contributing factors. Honest brokers will give a " written " statement to the seller, sometimes the seller is the broker brokering the deal as a false-positive-seller", to let the seller known what the grand cost of repairs will be and to prepare for that delta of listing price vrs. Actual selling price. Remember 80% of your data is based on 10 year old catamarans. Please keep on cleaning the data in search forn excellence. It is valuable. "Small lies, then big lies, then we have statistics".-Anon.

build your own catamaran like real sailers do and save youself $250k

@flat4314

7 жыл бұрын

INVAZOR33 Just out of curiosity how much would it cost you in materials to build a 40ft fiberglass hull?

@hommie789

7 жыл бұрын

On average it will cost you almost double to build your own boat and years of labor if you even have a place to build it. Then you have to hope you have your engineering correct to hold together in heavy seas, when you need it the most, or you can try and just over build the vessel but that usually means a heavy poor efficient thing that is not good for speed and not good for handling and not good at anything. Would you build your own car from scratch?

@INVAZOR33

7 жыл бұрын

boat salesmen said... smoking is good for your health, tobacco industry said... sugar is good for you, food industry said... I don't think epoxy and fiberglass cost $250k and there are dozens of publicly available well proven catamaran desings to shose from.

@flat4314

7 жыл бұрын

hommie789 Not a valid point of building your own car from scratch because I did build my own car from scratch. But, I agree it would be a lot cheaper to buy a used boat but, what's the fun of that.

@hommie789

7 жыл бұрын

It was a valid point, what did it cost you to completely build your own car? For everything? I built my own motorbike inspired by Harley and it cost me almost $35K to build it with on road certification. Could have bought a Fat Boy for $28K.