Cannot build truly distributed networks on centralized energy grids.

@Jaggith

2 жыл бұрын

Amen. Or centralized manufacturers of ASICS. You could argue that Satoshi was pushing to move the world more rapidly towards low cost energy (renewable or nuclear) and high tech cpus (quantum cpus) that work well for cryptography and AI processing. Really seems like an Elon Musk level of move, if it was done intentionally, and not just a incidental to the protocol.

@Jaggith

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonp.1084 In order for miners to make money they centralize operations in data centers now. Data centers aggregate around power plants. Look up John Oliver's last week tonight on power transmission for a good recap on why power is so centralized. It's a myth at this point that mom and pop cpus at home on solar can compete. Its also a myth that miners are incentivized to carry off peak load for renewables. They are Ferraris, redlining their operations 24/7. China started banning miners when they started buying and reopening coal plants to supply their operations. Same as Iran I think? The miners were using state subsidized energy at low cost causing brown outs. If you scale BTC computation to the entire world's economic system, you will boil the earth's oceans from the amount of heat generated.

@Jaggith

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonp.1084 Have you got a source that shows miners have become less centralized in the last decade? Proof of stake runs into the same problem with multipool operators. John Oliver's BTC coverage is definitely misinformed. I was specifically referencing their coverage on transmission lines. Electric infrastructure is a forcing function for centralization, both geographically and economically. It's silly to belive that someone will recapitalize their data center once it's built.

@klemenkoncan3895

2 жыл бұрын

Miners are only buyers of electricity and electricity is abundant in most places, you can create your own with solar panels or using hydroelectricity. There is no centralisation here. You do not need the grid, just internet connection.

@Jjarret

2 жыл бұрын

@@adohmnail6445 to do what? As long as my node is functional my wealth is secured. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Yes because of ASICs as opposed to memory based mining algorithms. Thus it needs specialized more expensive equipment compared to monero. One of the many advantages to monero

the raw materials needed to "mine" bitcoin were actually mined by real miners earning minimum wage for the raw materials.. Please put some respect on the miners responsible for all our infrastructure .. mining crypto is like being a person who finished read an audio book

@andrewrossnagel9433

2 жыл бұрын

Who makes the tools for the miners? They're the real heros!

@azdjedi

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrewrossnagel9433 Primordial goo 3B years ago are the real heros!

@AgentZigz

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrewrossnagel9433 but the materials needed to make tools so they can build shit.. those kids in Congo mining cobalt for less than a $1.. i dont hear anything about helping those hard working kids.. a few clear fake ngo's in undergrounded churches that only use bitcoin lol

@AgentZigz

2 жыл бұрын

@@azdjedi anti matter higgs boson particles are the mvp tho

@Pgeorgiex

2 жыл бұрын

respeck*

Nodes can be centralized to

@user-pf1wc3fu1t

27 күн бұрын

How?

Bitcoin will never have a fork block size and I fixed it

Polkadot doesnt have hark forks

@vicbirth1649

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe that's because Polkadot is still useless.

I'm not and I'm the main miner and I am Satoshi nakamoto I will never be centralized since the beginning decentralized was my stand am I remain the same many thing will start to change

Though, while the Bitcoin network rules are in the node operator hands, the censorship power is in the miners hands.

How can we better describe Bitcoin “miners”? More of a mail carrier than a miner? Hacking? Organizing? What do they doo?

@e11e7en

2 жыл бұрын

Blockchains are a ledger. The ledger is truly just a sequential chain of blocks, and the blocks are groups of transactions that update the ledger. You could call a blockchain a transaction chain, except it’s not updated one transaction at a time, but rather in groups of transactions (blocks), and thus it is called blockchain. Now, no central authority manages this ledger. Rather, many people manage it together. They are the miners. But they don’t all know or trust one another, so their cooperation has to be implemented without a central, hierarchical organization (bank for example). It was a huge innovation to conceive of how to get people to all manage a ledger together who don’t trust one another. Miners compete for the opportunity to add a block, which comes with a reward in the form of bitcoin. The competition is to solve a hard math problem that miners need computers to solve. This requires equipment, energy, and real estate, none of which are free. Thus the reward is required as an incentive to maintain the blockchain. This is how miners earn bitcoin. Super-simplified explanation, and I’m not a miner or blockchain expert so pls take my explanation with due skepticism.

@Simon-xi8tb

2 жыл бұрын

they burn electricity to run gazzillion trillion of hashes, so that only one fucking node can find the correct hash and insert the new block into blockchain. And all the rest of the nodes just pointlessly burned enormous amounts of electricity. So what do they do ? They serve as an exposé of stupidity in today's human kind.

@g.barios5805

2 жыл бұрын

Haha it's funny. Miners try random numbers (called Nonce) and put the previous hash + the transactions of the block + the nonce that they just created into the encryption function (SHA256). The result of the encrypted data must start with 20 zeros at the beginning, right now. To find the random number (nonce) that makes the result of the function start with 20 zeros is exactly what miners do and it's extremely difficult. Thus, they need a lot of computational power just to try a lot of numbers per second. The one that finds the nonce, mines the block and earn the reward. In my opinion is an incredible waste of energy and computational power and I'm glad that people explore other options like PoS.

This is the dirty secret of bitcoin

@dat9553

2 жыл бұрын

No it's not, even if the majority of hashing power want to harm the network, they will be blacklisted by btc nodes.

@if432

2 жыл бұрын

@@ElectronicHypnotic mining conglomerates centralization hash rate

@indureth

26 күн бұрын

​@@dat9553false. You need a hard Fork for that

oh so its not miners who decide transaction order and fees. yeah that's what i thought. XRPL smashes bitcoin

@SAL-fs1mr

Жыл бұрын

Lol! The RP in XRP stands for Ripple, the centralized company in charge of it.

@NerdyX90

Жыл бұрын

@@SAL-fs1mr Ripple doesn't own the XRPL. Lol. XRPL is open sourced, anyone can build on it. Ripple provides a service, RippleNet, which utilizes the XRPL. Similar to iOS & Android utilizing Linux kernel.

This guy.. NGMI

Instead of constant criticism why doesn’t he propose a solution?!

@janrothen

2 жыл бұрын

Bitcoin is the solution

@vicbirth1649

2 жыл бұрын

@@janrothen No it really isn't

@80teg

Жыл бұрын

@@vicbirth1649 SBF?

Bitcoin has no hard forks like what?? Bitcoin cash is a hard fork...

@zZnighthunterZz

4 ай бұрын

Bitcoin cash is not Bitcoin. Everyone creates forks of Bitcoin which are then shitcoins

His argument for why centralization of miners don't matter because it's the nodes that matter, applies to PoS too.

@themossinator

2 жыл бұрын

Listen to the clip again i think you missed it

@balderblue3577

2 жыл бұрын

LOL

@ascendrio

2 жыл бұрын

Except that Proof of Stake is a whole different game, so the same criteria does not apply anyway.

@nsteinhilber

2 жыл бұрын

At least that is true for Ethereum, a lot of the DPoS chains do allow validator stake to act as chain governance. Ethereum is similar to bitcoin in that validators A) Cannot change consensus rules and B) Nodes can choose whether or not to support upcoming hard forks (yes, I know Ethereum does not use soft forks). The fact that Ethereum has had numerous hard forks means that the objectives/goals laid out by the devs are logical and heavily supported, not that decisionmaking is being forced down the throat of the community. For 99% of us out there, Ethereum is more than decentralized enough and the community is working every day to improve it robustness. Is there a bit of a temporary centralization issue right now under Lido's share of stake? Sure, but that will be solved in time as more liquid staking solutions take market share.

@marsenault9683

4 ай бұрын

POS is trash. BTC is gen one tech Y'all are sheep amongst the 4%

"Attach a bunch of transactions to the block" .. except they can collectively censor which transactions to keep and which to remove.

@Samuel-lv9kj

2 жыл бұрын

"Removed" transactions are not actually thrown away, they are just not included in the current block. If someonce wanted to fully censor a transaction they would pretty much have to be able to have 100% of mining power for the rest of time, which lets face it is not going to happen.

@boomperson818

Жыл бұрын

@@Samuel-lv9kj Isnt it 51% of mining power for the rest of time? You just need to outpace the uncensored chain and just continue blocking the transaction in your own chain

Emergent centralization. And the lack of utility. My main two concerns with BTC. Scarcity without utility, is that really the hardest store of value we can come up with? Please don’t bring the lightning network into this; it’s absolutely atrocious.

@zedwik321

2 жыл бұрын

Could you explain why LTN is atrocious?

@gastonangelini8352

2 жыл бұрын

What is the real use of gold??? Think a little Humans has valued scarcity assets for all history. What about a coin that is programmed to never increase.their supply more than intended. What about in 10 years ? Or maybe 50 years? Goverments will be on board , they not gonna tell they are buying but after the confiscation of russian assets it marks a precedent... China and most of the world will start to shift their balances from usd to gold/bitcoin , it will take many years but USD has lost its credibility in the mid term (short term is not investment just gambling at the moment) Keep buying and holding. Just a little every month is the best strategy for regular people (DCA) 50 usd x month x 10 years , do the math. Inform yourself about money , global economy . Study so you can be really free

@SmoothHov24

2 жыл бұрын

@@zedwik321 long story short, it’s too centralized, insecure, unreliable, and a shitty n confusing user experience. Opening and closing channels (and it’s costs), routing fees, channel liquidity, remaining online requirements, watchtowers, flood & loot attacks, etc, etc. there’s plenty of material and debates online for the curious). In the words of Ray Dillinger “So, Bitcoin was a good effort, it deployed some new ideas and technology, and showed that at some scale the "block chain" idea worked, but ultimately, although a successful proof of concept, failed to deliver. It doesn't scale, except by becoming the very thing it was supposed to replace. The more scalable the network becomes, the more centralized it becomes, until ultimately a "scalable" cryptocurrency would be doing things exactly the same way as a credit card processor.”

@CollaborateOrDecent

2 жыл бұрын

@@SmoothHov24 You seem to forget the amazing progress btc had in the past 10y and that will most likely continue to have into the future given the quality of the minds working on it. My Internet browser was a shity experience 30y ago and there wasn't much to do online and here we are.

@Dschinghiss

2 жыл бұрын

@@CollaborateOrDecent yeah because, ironically, nowadays the majority of the Internet is in the hands of a few multinational gigacorporations that have streamlined the once almost anarchic Internet. It would be naive that the same couldn´t happen to Bitcoin when we already see a centralization of mining and nodes.

Algorand has over 4000 nodes because it’s nearly free to run a node!

@SkilledCheckmates

2 жыл бұрын

As is the case with Bitcoin. Node =/= miner

@JT__Media

2 жыл бұрын

@@SkilledCheckmates yup. But he made the point that nodes on other networks are expensive to run and lead to centralization. I was just pointing out that he’s wrong.

@SkilledCheckmates

2 жыл бұрын

@@JT__Media I see. I'm interested in how Algorand approaches this problem. Bitcoin nodes are cheap and easy because they transactions are small in size and infrequent. Ethereum nodes are much more expensive due to the blockchain being terabytes in size and the additional hardware and network requirements associated with its rapid block time. How does Alogrand differ?

@JT__Media

2 жыл бұрын

@@SkilledCheckmates I wish I was technical enough to understand fully. I just know by the data, they have figured out how to run them efficiently. I know having a world class cryptographer that invented some of the foundational mathematics blockchains rely on and have an elegant PPOS consensus mechanism helps. Satoshi inadvertently cited the founder of Algorand in the Bitcoin white paper.

@jeremiahwilson3365

2 жыл бұрын

@@JT__Media "Satoshi inadvertently cited the founder of Algorand in the Bitcoin white paper." Humor us; specifically list the quote in reference within the bitcoin white paper that quotes Silvio directly?

Guy is contradicting way too much

You’re an extremely smart man and I am proud to be an Austrian with you. But the fact that you are a Bitcoin maximalist is very disappointing… Bitcoin is slow, expensive, it can’t scale and it’s like someone buying a first generation cell phone and thinking it’s the pentacle of achievement. It’s not. There are other crypto that can do what bitcoin promised but has not, and cannot deliver. Digital assets are the answer, Bitcoin is not… Look at XDC, XLM, HBAR, ADA, ALGO or XRP. All of these work much better than Bitcoin. It will be a good store value, but it will not be anything close to a currency…

@SAL-fs1mr

Жыл бұрын

All those altcoins are incredibly centralized and way less secure compared to the energy security of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is scaling to millions of transactions per second right now with lightning network, no need for centralized altcoins.

@parmenides5032

Жыл бұрын

all those coins arent secure , what are you talking about? holding money long term is more secure in bitcoin than all your altcoins togeher :p

@shenlin9761

5 ай бұрын

Lol no

@marsenault9683

4 ай бұрын

Even in a space that's 3% of global population most follow a heard.....

@marsenault9683

4 ай бұрын

​@@SAL-fs1mr😂 no it's not everything you said is false...it's nonsense spilled by BTC maxis and almost all BTC maxis are finance bros and not developers....

this is why the smartest know that Decred is real money. Regular people use their regular computers to mine it. ASIC runned mining cartels dont exist on Decred like is plaguing btc. Decred is the most secure because of how it's built

just change MINERS by STAKERS and you can change from PoW to PoS, in my modest opinion

@CollaborateOrDecent

2 жыл бұрын

Miners are the opposite of Stakers. In PoS any group with the majority of the stake effectively controls the network destroying decentralisation. In this video it was explained how under PoW the miners have no control over the network and nodes are the guarantors of decentralisation.

@GameOfLife55

2 жыл бұрын

@@CollaborateOrDecent who controls the most nodes though ? Most nodes are also mining nodes or created from centralised exchanges.

@dat9553

2 жыл бұрын

Not so easy, otherwise ETH will be fully transited to PoS long ago

@dat9553

2 жыл бұрын

@@GameOfLife55 btc nodes and btc miners are different. Btc nodes keep a copy of the btc ledger, btc miners just pump out blocks

@GameOfLife55

2 жыл бұрын

@@dat9553 yes but miners usually also run a node.

This dude is talking so much bullshit. He contradicts himself constantly between this vid and the other. Nodes don´t matter when it´s PoS but with Bitcoin they do matter ? Miners are only there to "collect coins" and therefore irrelevant but Stakers are somehow evil ? Does he even listen to himself ? "You wanna have a system with a large number of nodes thats why bitcoin is better" (yet Eth has around 20x as many nodes as Btc) and "ultimately it doesnt matter how many nodes you have, what matters is do they dictate the consensus?" well, which one is it ? Bitcoin is sooo famous for having consensus, right ? Bitcoin isn´t forked but others are ? Bitcoin is arguably the most forked blockchain there is, there are officially 105 forks of which around 75 are still active. You could run the genesis code and it would sync with the Blockchain ? With which one ? Bitcoin ? Bitcoin SV ? Bitcoin Cash ? And what about all the BIP improvements ? This dude is a shill and doesn´t even realize it. He only listens to himself and what he wants to hear.

@Firstname_Surname

2 жыл бұрын

I am not arguing whether the guy is a shill or not, but what he is talking about is that the original Bitcoin code (and chain) is still the chain today. It has been forked but the original project remains a continuation of the original codebase. If you compare with Ethereum let's say, then the project that is known today as "Ethereum" isn't actually the original codebase, the original is Ethereum Classic, and I think this is exactly what he's talking about.

@skestone4228

2 жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter how many nodes you have if the system is centralized because those in power commonly just change the rules/fork. Large number of nodes is beneficial in a truly decentralized system. BIP improvements are soft forks. Which are backwards compatible, meaning nodes can still validate and verify the blockchain even if they didn't recognize the new BIP implementation. Genesis code would work for what is currently known (and always has been) Bitcoin Network. Not the hard forks like SV, Cash, litecoin, etc.

@klemenkoncan3895

2 жыл бұрын

Dude the fact that ethereum is switching to PoS tells you just how much decentralised it actually is lol when its developers can literally decide to change its consensus that should tell you all you need to know. PoW is what enables us to implement thermodynamics into digital space whereas PoS just gives control to the rich

@tuxbuttocks

2 жыл бұрын

The only reason nodes have any say at all is because of the censorship and effective extortion caused by UASF - User Activated Soft Forks. Interviewee is either dumb, or an Adam "Tabs" Back shill.

@koral1842

2 жыл бұрын

Eth absolutely does NOT have more nodes than Bitcoin. No idea where you pulled that from. Eth has purposely increased it’s block size to process more transactions, this requires a shit ton more space and bandwidth, were talking 5gb vs 1TB of space to download the blockchain. It is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to run a bitcoin full node than an ETH full node. It is essential to keep nodes at an entry level.

#pulsechain solve this

Well ... it takes one giant to buy globally ALL Bitcoin computer ... and power them off ...

@SAL-fs1mr

Жыл бұрын

You make the mistake of assuming these Bitcoin mining machines are for sale. Only a small percentage are available for sale.

BetaTestCoin Its interesting watching NPCs walk into a space that hilds like 4% of the population. The folks in that small early adopter arena still following a heard. Im not anti brc or that it will go away....buts its gen. 1 technology.... There are way better DLTs than BTC..🤷 Ines that will bebused by banks enterprise etc

Miners and anyone else that is mining things are about to change a limit on machines will be set up So that many people can become of the bitcion family. Nodes I Satoshi nakamoto returns

Bs, It's on the code, u can mine more than that, just change it CAmount GetBlockSubsidy(int nHeight, const Consensus::Params& consensusParams) { int halvings = nHeight / consensusParams.nSubsidyHalvingInterval; // Force block reward to zero when right shift is undefined. if (halvings >= 64) return 0; CAmount nSubsidy = 50 * COIN; // Subsidy is cut in half every 210,000 blocks which will occur approximately every 4 years. nSubsidy >>= halvings; return nSubsidy; }